The Business of Education | S01E01 | Dave Norment

Edsoma's diving into the world of podcasts with our inaugural episode featuring none other than NYC Superintendent Dave Norment!

Join us on a captivating journey as we kick off our podcast series diving deep into the nexus of education and innovation.

Our first episode unlocks insights from Dr. Norment, an educational visionary, sharing wisdom and strategies that empower the future of learning in NYC and beyond.

Tune in to our podcast debut and witness the transformational power of education through insightful conversations! 🌟📖

Transcript

Hey, everyone, we want to thank you to the pod. This is the business of education, and my name is Kyle Wallgren. I'm the CEO and founder of a literacy tool called Edsoma, and our goal with our podcast is to bring visibility to our hardworking educators across the country and bring more visibility to the things they're providing for our children.

There are unspoken heroes. We want to make sure people know about it. Uh, our guest today is David Norman. He has almost two decades of experience in Queens, New York, educational system. He was a social studies teacher, uh, for middle and elementary schools, and then became the principal of PS140 Q in Jamaica, Queens. That was just the start of his journey. Now he holds the district 27 superintendency since 2021. David, welcome to the pod. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. David, why don't you give us a little bit of background of your journey. Uh, what made you want to get into education?

It was actually. Actually, uh,

I was majoring in economics, um, in college, and, uh, there was a poet, a famous poet. Um, his name is Wadud Ahmed. Um, he was doing poetry in a lot of the high schools. Um, his group was the roots. So if you ever heard of the roots, that was his.

What's his name again? His name is Wadud Ahmed. Okay. And his background player? Were the roots. So, um, they're on Jimmy Fallon now, but when they first started out, when I was in Philly, I used to go around to different high schools and just talk to students. And, um, they used to say, you, need to do some teaching because you're really good in how to relate with kids.

And I never thought about being a teacher, even though my mother was a teacher for 33 years in kindergarten. Um, my father was in education as well. I never had the desire to be in education because I saw how hard they worked, um, and the sacrifices that they went through when I was young.

But, I was attracted to helping students and helping young people. So, um, I took. Took a couple of classes, and I wound up major, getting a minor in education, and I ended up, um, teaching. Middle school. Ah, at a high school in south Philly, at Furness high school. I don't even know if it still exists.

But I was a 9th ah, grade. I was an 11th grade and twelveth grade social studies teacher. Um, and it allowed me to teach economics because part of the curriculum deals with participation in government, part of it deals with economics. And I taught for about seven years in Philadelphia and in.

And, you know, someone told me like, you need to do administration. So I became the social studies chairperson. And from there I became an assistant principal. Was an assistant principal in Queens for about, uh, nine years. And then someone came to me and said that you need to become a principal.

And so I became a principal. And I did that for. For another eight years. I took over a school that was in the bottom 5% of the state. Um, we were performing. Percent of students on grade level, um, in ELA and math. And in my time there, it takes a long time to really change culture, change the building.

So, by the time I left, we were close to 60 something percent, um, students. We had a 55% increase, um, and because of that work that I did in the school, someone plucked me to become a deputy superintendent. So, um, I moved districts from district 28 to 27, and, um, continued the work of helping students.

It's a very big district. I have about 42,000 students in my district, I have 56 sites, 50 principals, over close to 200 assistant principals. Um, we are the third largest district, if you are looking at all of New York state, eight, um, geographical and with numbers. Um, the big three are Yonkers, Rochester, uh, um, Albany.

 Uh, so we compare in terms of numbers with those districts. I have a team of about 45 people that I supervise, and it's constant work, but it's good work because I know that the work that I'm doing is making changes with, um, our young people. I kind of share the same journey.

I never thought I'd be building software and education. Here I am. Uh, and it's just become a total passion. You feel like when you wake up in the morning, you're actually making a difference. Right. And maybe that's more rewarding than any financial gain possible. I wish that teachers and educators were paid better.

I think that they'd have more resources to help kids ultimately. But, um, you still get that feeling of that reward. Education is definitely rewarding. Um, you became superintendent, uh, just recently, but from our research, you had beat out your former. Boss people, you. Um. And that was because of the growth and the traction and the impact you were making in your schools.

How was that transition? How was it from going, uh, working under somebody to somebody working directly to you? It was interesting. It was an awkward transition. Um, I think that the work that I have to thank my former boss for hiring me. So she saw that there was something, um, in me that allowed me to do the work.

I think, um. Although it was awkward, I think the way to look at it is that, um, as a leader, part of your work is creating other leaders. And I look at it, um. My former supervisor may not look at it like this, but this is how I look at it.

Um, she gave me an opportunity to lead, and so. Gave me an opportunity to grow the district and um, there's no hard feelings on my part, um, with her. But I think anytime, um, you take over the position of your former boss, it's an awkward position, especially when you speak to them and tell them that um, you're going to be one of the applicants, uh, regarding the position.

So it was weird but I think, um, the work that I had done with families, with parents, with principals, um, with leaders, teachers, um, made the transition, um, a smooth one, um, in terms of the district. And I look forward to building on the work that we had done when I was a deputy onto becoming a superintendent.

That's very interesting. I love the way that you worded that your goal as a leader is to build leaders and that's how things really change. Some of the numbers that we have is, uh, you know, Ela and math increased scores. 47%, 33% in other areas. These are huge numbers.

If the nation could achieve these numbers, we would take leaps and bounds. What are some of the things that you did differently to achieve this amount of growth within your students that you would maybe recommend to other districts? Trying. Yeah, I think, um, my experience has allowed me to identify the root cause of problems, and I think sometimes we often don't know what to do when we find the root cause.

Sometimes, um, the root cause is us. Sometimes it's the adults. Um, sometimes it's the training. Sometimes, uh, it's the culture. Um, I believe that in all three of those things, um, doing. Engaging in root cause and providing training to teachers and leaders around what they need to do.

When they identify what the root cause is the work that needs to be done in the schools. I think prior to that culture, changing the culture of a building is probably the most difficult work, um, that we're doing. And that impacts everything. Um, it impacts the mindset of the teachers and impacts the mindset of the community, um, of parents, of students.

And really shifting their mindset is something that, unfortunately, a lot of schools don't do. They focus on the data, they focus on triangulating the data, they focus on looking at instructional practices. And, um, they never spend the time making sure that the people that are responsible for doing this work are committed to it, because once they're committed to it, they'll go above and beyond to do the work.

And that comes with having conversations with people, um, Respectful of their time and their knowledge, and really identifying. Once you establish that rapport with, uh, your staff, then you can kind of lean into what are the things that they need support, and what are the deficiencies that were created as a result of leaving college.

Because sometimes a lot of our colleges aren't really preparing our young teachers for, um, the things that students may need to do to be successful. One of the key things, um, relates to reading, the science of reading. And a lot of the teachers and the principals and leaders were not really trained when they came out of college on how to be effective, um, reading instructors.

And that's something that, in terms of defining the root cause early as a superintendent, that was one of the things I identified right away. Um, how are. Our leaders prepared to do the work that needs to be done to impact students, um, especially the foundational skills and foundational reading in our kindergarten, our first and second grade that will then lead to, um, growth beyond that time period.

So everywhere I've gone, I've kind of taken that mentality. I'm big on data. I'm big on progress monitoring. Um, I'm big on, uh, using those methods to determine whether or not what we're doing is actually working. And if it's not working, then what are we doing together and collaboratively in order to ensure that those students are doing well.

So much good stuff in there, um, that I want to touch on, like, so much good stuff in there. Culture is something that, uh, I didn't grow up understanding. I worked in the oil field where it was just hurry up, get your butt to work. And I don't care how you feel about your job.

There was somebody waiting in the wings to replace you. But the difference was. Started off at 17 years old making $125,000 a year. Wow. That in education, you know what I mean? Guys are literally looking every day for somebody that just wants to be a part of a change and do it for passion and for little to no pay.

It feels like you guys get so changing a culture when people are struggling to put food on the table. Man, that must took some work. So I really admire that that's something you focused on. Another thing that you touched on I'm a little biased is literacy. Um, that's how we came to know each other is because literacy is a passion project for me.

We came to you to show you at Soma and I wanted to grow with your journey. Um, I feel like reading because I considered myself a non reader and when Covid happened, we'd sent our kids home. And when I started looking for solutions, all I found was like, more problems.

54 million American adults can't read the menu at a restaurant and the majority of these people all had multiple children that we rushed home. We were all trying to figure out the next step but we rushed home and we asked them to be educators for a little bit and that scared the crap.

I don't come from a background of education. I got kicked out of school in grade nine. Um, reading was something I really, really struggled with and me being a father of four, I knew that the majority of the bullying that happened in my life was because I couldn't read.

And when that happened as a father, it wasn't happening to my kids. Um, I think you and I both align on the importance of reading, but for people that really don't understand how big, how important that is to the fundamental success of your child, could you elaborate on the importance behind that?

Thank you for the question. I think it's huge. That is. It is. It is the work that is the most important work in education. Um, I think the layman, the people who aren't in education presume that everyone that's in front of children, um, have the necessary skills in order to help their child.

And unfortunately, um, a lot of educators need to be retrained on what is necessary. Necessary, um, to have those and possess those skills. In terms of specifically, what is the impact? Um, I remember being in middle school and seeing fights happening in my classroom because people were laughing at the kid in the class that couldn't read.

So it is something that is. Yeah, it's embarrassing. You don't possess basic skills. People always say that people are very comfortable at social gathering saying that, I'm not a math person. Right? But I've heard it thousands of times. Most people don't go to social gatherings and be like, I can't read.

I'm illiterate. Right? It's something that is a sense of embarrassment. And think about those young people in kindergarten, first and second grade who are now expected to read and comprehend, and they can't do it. And sometimes the deflection to noticing that they can't read is to misbehave. So a lot of the misbehaviors, um, the students identify for special ed are a result of a lack of reading.

It's not that they are disabled in any way. It's that they lack the necessary skills to accomplish, um, reading comprehension. And if we targeted that, it would build in students. It would build, um, respect between your peers so that you wouldn't be, um, abused or. Um, um, bullied in any way.

Um, sometimes there's bullying when you're too smart. That also happens. But I think the overwhelming, um, majority of young people. Ah, a lot of the behavior, um, a lot of the extra things that happen in the school as a result of their inability to comprehend and do the work that's necessary, that's given to them, um, it affects adults, um, it reduces the ability to go to college and increases the ability to go to prison.

Yes, we know there's a direct correlation between, um, those young people who are incarcerated in their reading ability. Um, we've done some research and found that close to 60% of the young people that are in, um, Rikers island, um, the school that's in Rikers Island, 60, um, percent are special ed.

Identified as special ed, and they were identified at an early age. They were identified in kindergarten, first grade. So now they're in high school, and they have been in special ed for the last eight, nine years. And the major issue is reading. So reading can change the life of young people.

Um, that's why it's been a focus of our district. The retraining, um, of our young people, uh, of our teachers and our leaders. Um, it supports the, um, mayor and the chancellor's initiative regarding New York City reads. Um, so we are all in, in terms of really changing the trajectory of, um, experiences of our young people through teaching, uh, our teachers and leaders about how to teach reading.

There's a few things I want to point out to the people tuning in to listen to. This is, uh, what you touched on around. Incarceration. One of the things that you pointed out, bullying. Some people do get bullied for being too smart. They usually don't revert to a life of crime

after school, where you pointed out that a lot of the kids get bullied or they can't redo revert to crime. And I want to give you a scary stat. You might know this already, but to our audience who don't, they predict how many prison cells are going to be needed in ten years based off third grade literacy levels?

Another stat that's very scary is that if you take an incarcerated member of society and increase literacy levels by two grade levels, that's it. Two grade levels, they go from an 87% chance of reoccurring and going back to prison down to an 18% chance of going back to literacy.

Uh, in my opinion, is the lifeblood to a better future, not just for our children, but for society as a whole. So thank you very much for. The work you guys are doing on putting literacy first and uh making that a main focus because people don't really understand the impact that it has.

One of the things that we get quite often on some of our posts is how can a man that can't read build a software to help people learn to read? Me? It's real simple. It's like you as a reader not fucking any of the people that read well don't understand the challenges as a non reader.

It's not something you can explain. The emotions, the embarrassment, the feelings that you go through aren't something that you're running out to tell your friends about. It's something that you bottle up and you don't know how to discuss that. And some of the things that seen through the research is how those kids react with given the opportunity to learn on their own or with a piece of technology that's not going to embarrass them, that's not going to make them feel.

Like they're doing it wrong. Which brings me to my next question. How important do you think technology is in the growth? One, literacy, but two, the education as a whole? Yeah, I can't say enough when used properly, when appropriately used, I think that it could be a game changer for a lot young people.

Most of our young people get their information from their phones. Mhm. Most, they get it from either Instagram or YouTube. Even adults, when we don't know how to do something, if we're cooking something, we get our information from YouTube. We go on the YouTube and we search it, and it gives us information and it walks us through it.

Um, technology, when used properly, can be a very powerful tool. Um, and it's something that, throughout my career. As an educator, I've used to strengthen my knowledge, uh, about, um, what needs to be done and also allow for the freedom for young people to explore and understand. Um, part of the work is really teaching young people how to use it as a tool to benefit them, and not just a tool for enter attainment.

So how are you now using this tool in order to strengthen your reading or your writing? How are you using this tool to strengthen your math, um, strengthen your knowledge of history, and, um, how it's going to be utilized in the future as you get older? I think we need to preface the conversation about the proper use of the tool, and then when it's used properly, it can make huge changes in the lives of young people.

Um, but it. Needs to be a similar part of learning with young people. Um. Uh, there also needs to be an understanding of the leaders and the teachers of their content knowledge in order to really manipulate and utilize the technology properly. So it's still important for that science teacher to really know science, even especially at the elementary level.

A lot of elementary, um, school teachers, they are good in one specific thing. So they may be reading teachers or literacy teachers, but they're not as comfortable in math or science or social studies. So they really focus a lot on literacy. Um, human nature, though, right? There's human nature, absolutely, that's right.

But the problem with that is that, you know, we need our k through five students to be content prepared before they get to middle school. Because if you had multiple teachers. That really just focused on literacy. Not necessarily reading, but literacy. Um, those are two different things. Totally different.

Thank you. So making sure that there is content knowledge so that when you're given technology, you know how to use it appropriately to strengthen the work that you're doing in the schools and in the classroom. I love everything you said there. Uh, strength in being able to use the tools for companies coming into education or, um, new resources that want to be able to get into education.

Uh, this is something that we are challenged with every day is buy in. Right? Teacher buy in. I think what a lot of people need to understand is that superintendents don't go cram new things down teachers throats about it in a different way. And it's important. But here's one of the challenges that I have, and I don't blame them.

Teachers are overworked and underpaid. So what is some more. Motivational things that tech companies can do to try and bring buy in to a teacher that doesn't have the bandwidth already in their day to day. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think buy in is huge. Um, in my position, buy in is something that I think about on a daily basis.

So how am I convincing and inspiring others to do the work that needs to be done? Right? So part, uh, of it is thinking about how are you aligning what you're doing, and how is the tool going to help you in that process. So, teachers, leaders, myself, we all have expectations.

We evaluate it. We evaluate on how well we're doing our job. And part of the process is thinking about, how do we now take this tool that can really help us in our job and really make our job a little easier? That's part of. Buying. Um, when I have a tool, ah, using technology that helps me do my job more effectively, that's buying, because it saves time so that I can spend time with my family and my friends, um, it saves planning.

So time is something that we never get back. And creating opportunities that will save time. And you, um, facilitate the work that you already have to do. That is a buy in. Another thing is seeing the success. We have to celebrate success on a smaller level, not wait to the end of the year.

How are people making growth throughout the year? Interim success. And I think once if you are in teaching and you start seeing your students progressing, um, because of the technology that you're using, that's also buy in, because. Creates, um, a trust in the use of the technology. And that trust, um, only builds because students can now take, um, that information and use it to strengthen their knowledge and strengthen their abilities.

I think that's part of the buying. Once you start aligning what the expectations are, um, as an educator, with the tool that's going to help with that, I think that helps with the buy in. Um, and a lot of buy in is just, um, conversations. How do you engage?

How do you introduce this information? Um, what are the resources that are connected to it? How are you, um, addressing some of the challenges that are going to come with the implementation of this technology? Thinking about that, um, prior, uh, will also help because a lot of teachers get a lot of different things thrown at them, right?

So they get a lot of different programs. Um, uses of technology. But there needs to be some streamlining and aligning of the work that they're doing and really addressing some of the, um, challenges that's going to come with the implementation of this technology. That also calms people's nerves so that they can implement it with more fidelity.

That's all good stuff. There's one thing that I want to add, and this is for our parent audience, and my family was guilty of what I'm about to say. We sent our kids to school thinking that their job was to teach them. And when our kids came home, it was our job to raise them and not, um, focus on the education.

And I want to tell everybody that is listening that that is not accurate. Teachers have so much time that they can use with your child, and one of the most important things is taking the tools that are given to a student or a child at. School and implementing them at home and in reading.

This is so important. The school is there. The child once has one, has to want to learn two. The teachers have to give the student the resources, tools to be successful there. But if the parent isn't there to reinforce them, they've already forgotten a huge percentage of what they were taught in that day by the time they go back to school the next day.

So for our parent audience, please be mindful that when homework comes home, it's not because they want to punish your kids, but it's because they need it to be embedded in the growth of their child.

so I think, David, one of the challenges, I'm assuming based off some of the conversations I've had prior with other educators, is bringing new educators into the space. How are you guys going about those challenges right now in your district? It's. So that is a major, major challenge, bringing in new people, um, that are committed to the work.

Right. So actually, some of the recommendations that I've made, ah, to central and to everyone, is to really get into the colleges and the universities and how are we working in building relationships with the future teachers. Um, I've done some discussions and done, um, some work with some of the local colleges and universities and really speaking to potential, um, teachers, um, forging opportunities for them to engage in, um, walkthroughs with the district and really thinking about how.

Encourage more people, um, to get into the profession of education. Unfortunately, a lot of teachers, um, it's a different mentality now. Um, they're not looking at this as a career. They may look at it as a stepping stone, and I don't blame them, I don't hate on them for doing that.

Um, but we definitely. There is definitely a need, a concern for really finding people who are committed to the work. Um, and the work is different. I, uh, know in the past, this is my 26th, 27th year in education. Wow. And thank you. Um, the work that I did, how a teacher was defined as effective or highly effective 25 years ago is different now.

Right. So it's. Same applies for a leader. The qualities of a great leader have adjusted. And, um, the expectations for what leaders and teachers are expected to do now has changed. So we have to really rethink how we are encouraging people to get involved in this field that doesn't pay a lot.

That, um, sometimes very thankless. Um. Um. It's perceived publicly as, um. We don't know what we're doing. Um. It's perceived that we don't have the necessary, uh, skills because kids are coming out of school not as prepared as they were, um, before. I, uh, think, unfortunately, the reality is that there's a lot of our parents and that have children in education where education didn't work for them, it wasn't a way out for them.

It didn't do what it promised to do in the past. So the mindset of our parents is like, well, we got to find another way to succeed in this world, because I was told, education. You get a good education, and you'll be good. Everything will be fine. That's not the case anymore.

Not the case. So we have to really. People always say, we have to prepare our young people for jobs that haven't been created yet. We have to prepare our young people to think in a way that's unique, um, and utilize the necessary skills that they need to possess in order to accomplish that.

But for our parents, um, it has definitely changed. Um, there was a time where you could just send your kids to school, and the expectation is that they learned, and, um, kids. Kids are different. Um, the expectations are different. Um, things are very rigorous and part of the work as a parent, I have three kids.

Part of the work as a parent is to stay involved. Um, a lot of times when I was a middle school person, I've talked to thousands of parents. When kids get to middle school, they kind of lose in the reins. They're like, oh, they're in middle school, they got friends and everything.

No, you have to stay involved as a parent throughout their whole educational career and you have to ask them questions about what they learned. What questions did they ask? Um, what questions made you think? Um, really checking in on them and making sure they really understand because they won't tell you when they are suffering.

They won't tell you a lot of times when they don't understand something. So you have to stay involved in your children's life just. They're on the right path. Um, but getting young people to, um, select education as a career is going to be something that's going to be a continual problem.

Um, and we just have to find new and creative ways to expose them and, um, expose them to what are the possibilities that can, can occur by being a teacher, being an educator? No, I appreciate that. There's a couple of things, and I noticed, and one of the things that my mom did when I was young is she asked me, what did you learn at school today?

And I always said nothing. And I was honest about it because I was too busy gooping off, you know what I mean? Because of my reading. I was so not engaged. So now when my kids say nothing, it really concerns because I'm like, man, I really don't think I learned anything.

So I make sure to dive in. What do you mean you didn't learn nothing? Like nothing. And asking questions around what nothing could mean because they could. Be completely honest with you. I didn't learn anything today. And that could be them reaching out, saying like, hey, I'm having challenges, and them not just being able to say that.

So I think hearing what your kids are saying and looking past the curtain is really important. And I'm going to ask a question. You don't have to answer it. I don't want to put you in any position that you're not comfortable with, but I hear it all the time in my space that, um, budget cuts a huge part of what y'all are doing.

I know that some of the places in Tennessee that we deal with budget cuts, I know New York's going budget cuts. What are some of the things that the states can do to help know? We're all funding wars around the world, but we're cutting budgets in education. If you could ask for one thing and your state represent hear you, what would it be?

Um. Um. Like, all right, so the easy answer is more funding. You know that's the easy answer. We need more money. Right. That's not the solution. Throwing money at something doesn't solve the problem. Doesn't make it go away. It doesn't make it go away. And I think being more, um, strategic with, um, ah, our funding is the way to go.

Identifying what's working, what's not working. Do we continue to fund things that's not working? And how do we define if it's not working? I think there needs to be some work around that. Um, really determining whether or not the money that we're currently spending. What is the impact of that funding and its spending?

Um, I think that one of the biggest things that we could do as a system, as an instructional system. Is to have our colleges and universities prepare brand new teachers around the science of. Reading. So that that is not a cost that has to be figured out at the district level.

That would be a big shift when educators, before they leave, before they get their certificate and their diploma, that they have proven that they are trained in how to teach young people how to read. That doesn't matter if you're a high school person, a middle school person, or an elementary person, because essentially you are going to eventually get students who, uh, are maybe in the 7th grade that are reading on a second grade level.

And if you have never learned, have been trained on how to help those kids, then all that's going to happen is that we're going to keep perpetuating the same problems that we've been having for decades. If there's anything that I would speak to. My state representatives is let's talk to all of the colleges and university presidents.

Let's change the curriculum so that we are ensuring that when you get that diploma, that you have the necessary skills that you need in order to teach young people how to read. That's awesome, David. I think that that would be a game changer. It would definitely, um, um, save funding and money.

If you have, like, for instance. I'm giving you an example just in District 27. Um, we have thousands of teachers, and we don't feel that our schools should have to pay for an initiative that's been initiated by a district. The district should pay for that. Don't have the money to pay for that.

Just the foundational literacy training that we are engaging in to train all. All of our k first grade and second grade. It usually takes about 18 months to two years to retrain them. It's going to cost upwards of about $400,000 just for that training. We don't have that teacher district.

For the district. For our district, um, that is $400,000 that we are trying to find through grants and other ways to fund this that we wouldn't have to fund if the teachers that were in our district already knew how to teach reading. Right. It would save districts tons of money because right now, everyone is going to need to be retrained.

You can't expect for reading to improve if you don't have people in front of students that know how to teach reading, that know how to utilize data from screeners and how to manipulate lesson, um, plan. Plans and curriculum if you don't have that knowledge, we are going to continue to have the problems that we've been having.

However, if the new teachers and there's funding for the retraining of teachers, to me, that's the biggest bang for your buck. Um, it's clear we know what the problem is. The problem is that we weren't trained properly when we were in college on how to teach students to read.

That needs to be, uh. Uh. The reading war has been going on. New York finally just settled in the last year on how go about doing. Correct, correct. There's been a war for many years on the different approaches to how to teach reading, and it's only been more recently that I guess the tide has shifted.

Understanding that the science of reading was not being evident in the approaches, um, that were in the city before. And this is new. It's new in the sense that, um, people were very comfortable with what they had, but the evidence didn't prove that kids were necessarily doing well and reading well.

So there has been a shift. The science reading has been around for a very long time. It just lost the war. It was losing the war. They're losing all the battles. In terms of, um. What was being used as a means to, um, be the thing in the front to determine whether kids were reading.

Um. There was times when reading, uh, was being taught through. If kids could recognize pictures. Right. It wasn't based on phonics. Right. And, um, it was a major problem. And I think, I'm glad now that phonics. And the um, phonemic awareness and that basis that science to reading work is now dominating the conversation around what we need to do with reading because that's the way we learned how to read when I was in school.

That was the approach, um and it didn't work for everyone. I'm talking to you that necessarily didn't work for everyone but it's a proven way to teach kids how to read. You said a lot of stuff that brought up a lot of memories really quick right there. Like when I was thinking back uh, when you said look at the pictures that vividly got a memory of a teacher when I was young saying if you can't get the word, look at the picture and see guess the word like approach.

So that came rushing back. A bunch of emotions I haven't thought of for 30 plus years. But um. David, I know how little time you guys have. I uh, appreciate. Time that you gave us today. I think that our audience has got a world of information. I know that I learned a lot.

Um, like I said, my goal with this podcast is to help people understand the battle that educators are going through so we can support them and we can make sure that our kids are ready to take on the world, because we are no longer building factory workers, we're building the future, and the old way of doing things is no longer relevant.

So, David, uh, thank you so much for joining us. Um, and we look forward to hearing more from you in the future. Absolutely. Thank you so much for inviting me to the podcast. I hope that it's been helpful. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing. Thank you so much for the work that you've been doing, um, at Soma, and I look forward to partnering and, um, seeing how we can utilize the technology in your company to strengthen the reading.

And I just send out to everyone, educators are, um. You know, we, we have committed our lives. Some of us have committed our lives to this work. Um, we want your kids to succeed and, um, hopefully we can work together to get that done. I agree with you there.

You guys have committed your lives. And when a bunch of that stuff was happening on the news where parents were attacking educators, it was so misinformative. Teachers are going out, they're put in a war zone to clean up messes that come from broken homes, from lack of resources and they're there taking the bullets.

So we're here to help teachers. Uh, you know, that that's how our program works is that we provide a foundation support for new educators, but we also provide a foundation for kids because I as a child learned how to cheat every system there was, so you couldn't. So thank you for being a supporter and we look forward to working with you guys and I'm going to make sure we do everything in our power to help.

Spread your message and get you guys, hopefully, some more funding through, uh, community support and getting back to our state representatives and federal leaders to put more money into the education system, because it's our kids that need it. So thank you. Thank you, everyone. Have a wonderful weekend, and I'll be in contact with you soon.

Thanks. Talk soon. Bye