Say No First: The Bold Client Attraction Secret | Andrea Waltz

What if the biggest thing holding your business back isn't your strategy… but your relationship with the word "no"?

In this episode of the Wickedly Branded Podcast, Beverly Cornell sits down with Andrea Waltz, bestselling co-author of Go For No and a leading expert on rejection and resilience. For over 20 years, Andrea has helped entrepreneurs and sales professionals see rejection not as the end of a conversation, but as a path to greater confidence and far more yeses.

Together, they explore what it takes to build a memorable brand around an unconventional idea, why asking for what you want is a muscle you have to train, and how founders — especially women — can reclaim their power through the "sacred no." From the biggest rejection that changed Andrea's career to the marketing lessons buried inside every "no," this conversation will change how you think about visibility, courage, and growth.

Key Marketing Topics

1. The Courage to Ask Is a Marketing Superpower
Most entrepreneurs avoid asking for what they want because they fear rejection, but Andrea's "Go For No" philosophy reframes asking as a practice you build over time. The more comfortable you get with hearing no, the more opportunities — clients, partnerships, press — you create for your brand.

2. Your "No" Is Just as Powerful as Your "Yes"
Beverly's concept of the "sacred no" shows that protecting your time and energy from the wrong clients is what makes room for the right ones. Saying no to bad-fit prospects isn't a loss — it's a filter that strengthens your brand and your bottom line.

3. Take a Point of View and Let Your Brand Be Unmistakably You
Andrea and Beverly agree that playing it safe is the fastest way to blend in. Leaning fully into your personality and perspective — even when some people won't get it — is what makes your brand memorable and magnetic to the right audience.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Did you know that embracing no, a book about embracing no, has sold more than 500,000 copies worldwide? For more than 20 years, Andrea Walls has helped entrepreneurs and sales professionals see rejection completely differently. Not as the end of a conversation, but as a path to greater confidence and more opportunity and far more yeses. Welcome to the Wickedly Branded Podcast. I'm your host, Beverly Cornell, and I'm the founder and the fairy godmother here at Wickedly Branded. Today I am joined by Andrea Waltz. She's a best-selling co-author of Go for No and a leading expert on rejection and resilience. Andrea helps entrepreneurs and business leaders stop avoiding failure, uncomfortable conversations, and the possibility of hearing the word no. So they can take much more action and create more opportunities. In this episode, we're going to explore rejection, invisibility, and what it takes to build a memorable brand around an unconventional idea. Andrea, I want to welcome you to the Wickedly Branded Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Thanks, Beverly. I'm so glad to be with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Okay, so no, it's a complete sentence, right? It's a complete sentence. Tell me how you got to know because I feel like, especially for women, that is a really interesting place to go to. So tell me how you got to hear with your story.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

It is. My husband and I work together, and I have to tell you that we are business partners, life partners. I took no personally all my life. I didn't ask for things. I didn't even know that you really could or should. I think I was just kind of raised to be a good girl and to that wait for things to be given to you and don't look greedy and don't look pushy and all of those things. And so I remember standing in a bookstore when I was college, I think I was in college, and it was a book called The Aladdin Factor. And it said, How to get everything you want in life? And I thought, well, I desperately need this. And I thought, what's the secret? And the secret, the Aladdin factor is rubbing Aladdin's lamp and the genie comes out and you can get three wishes, right? You can ask for what you want. And so the entire premise of the book was all about asking, who to ask, why to ask, where to ask, how to ask. What do you do if they say no? And I just I fell in love with this concept. And but I didn't really do much with it at the time. And then I met my husband and he taught me the go for no philosophy, which is very similar, which is ask and don't be afraid of no. And I kind of put those together. And I just decided that this is what I love. This is what I love talking about because it it actually started to change my life the more I applied it. And so we eventually left our jobs. We actually worked together at that time, quit our jobs, started a business speaking and training and teaching these ideas, sales, which is our background, retail sales was our background. And it's just been doing it ever since. And I'm super passionate about it.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Oh, I would imagine you've had some pretty big no's in your life that have helped to build this. What were a couple of the big no's that were really important for you to have to be here?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Gosh, I've heard no like all the time. I mean, we hear no all the time and had gotten, he introduced us to a book agent who was taking our book to all of the big New York publishers. It didn't come through. They were gonna literally fax it to us and said, Oh, yeah. He said they analyzed it, they pulled the plug at the last minute. And the reason they pulled the plug was they they decided that you guys probably wouldn't sell the minimum of 5,000 copies, which is required for them to get their investment back. So, and you really don't have a platform, and so they're not interested. And so that was the biggest no. And thank God that no happened because all right, it's up to us. And by the way, all the other publishers said no too, but we made some changes and eventually it started to take off. But that was the best no ever. Best no ever in the book and people in direct sales, and we were getting customers that we weren't even going after, and we said, you know, maybe we need to pivot from just having a business that is going after a market and just focus on the topic for whomever. We said, let's just go in on the topic of go for no, and it's for anything.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

So, based on that, the fact that you went from retail to this, you but I believe that nation is dangerous. I'm kind of contrarian that way. I believe in narrative coherence, meaning that once you have a story and you tell your story really, really well, you'll have narrative resonance with the right people. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a specific type. It's the people who are gonna they're gonna resonate with your story and know that this means something to them. That's your niche. So the fact that you make sense to me in a 21-day period for anything.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

It's it's really, Beverly, you appreciate this. It's really an asking challenge. It's to get out there and ask. Yes. This lady started a so hard for me to describe. Um, she's in Australia. She started a foundation helping underserved women who are um like classical artists with uh with music, like classical instrument type artists, um, get have um get positions and also like to play at concerts and things like that. It's just a really cool, interesting foundation. And so she's the point is it's fundraising and she has to ask for money and it helps these women who wouldn't ordinarily get opportunities to get opportunities. And so it was like, oh, that's really cool. And she, and I think you made a really interesting point there. She resonated with go for no. I never would have found her in a million years. Like, I that's not who I think to go after. I think to go after business people or somebody who needs to really sell. And and so that's kind of the cool thing is the people who resonate with it, if you are out there, uh, will find it and go, Oh, I need this.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I feel like uh it's it, that's the I think the like magical part of it. The people who can see the the resonate, the resonation of how I could use this for myself. I kind of alluded to it earlier when I was talking about Sandler. Um, how do you there's probably like a line you're walking here, like between um being being willing to hear no, right? And not becoming like pushy or aggressive or disconnected from the person on the other side of the conversation you're having, having. Talk a little bit about the go-for-no philosophy in itself, and then how do you balance that line?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

So I love that you said that. And it's it's interesting about Sandler because and you you would know better than I would, because I don't actually know specific like I don't know the behind the scenes of what they teach. What I'm what I kind of understand is that um, and and for the listeners, just to give them context, is from a sales standpoint, what what Sandler wants and what most salespeople want is they want to get commitments. And so the commitment is kind of like, you know, if if you were to say to somebody, hey, if if you have the money and you you have the budget for this and you have the time to do this, and and whatever else is stopping you, are you willing to say yes if if we agree that all those things are in place? And it's basically what you're trying to do is you're trying to get the person to say yes or no. And if they say no, then you can kind of push into, okay, so what is it then? Is it it's uh it's almost a way, I think, to kind of push into objections and to and to get that commitment. So if they say yes, they then then they can't go back, like you've given them the chance to say no. They can't go back and say no later because you already said, hey, let's let's get this all out on the table. So it's very interesting from a um, it's kind of a way to almost, I don't want to say box people in, but it's a way to kind of corral them so that you get to the yes. It's it's a it's a way to do that. Go for no is not, we're not, and and this is the line that we do walk. We are very, very okay, and maybe sometimes too okay for I think to some salespeople with no. Like our whole thing is get no early, make it make it easy, and we are never about, oh yeah, we don't take no for an answer. Like, I am so antithetical to that phrase. We absolutely take no for the for an answer, and it's a fine answer, and there's nothing wrong with it. Our whole thing is is twofold. One, you asked. So don't give yourself the no, you asked, um, which you're really good at. And a lot of people, as you know, Beverly, are not good at that at all. So it's making the ask, and then it's also saying, okay, if you do get the no, what how do you respond to that internally? What do you say to yourself? What do you do externally? Do you keep going? So it's not about, oh, how do I turn this around and pressure them into saying yes? It's okay, what can I do to what can I learn from this? Yeah. Um, what did I miss? Could you ask? Like, hey, what made you say no? Absolutely. But you do it in a respectful way to build a bridge, not to pressure. So our like um kind of philosophies are all about building on that no and understanding that a lot of times it's not now. Uh, and and you have to understand that, but you do it in the right way.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I love this because I really felt like it was just, I don't know, I just felt it felt so like you said, boxing people in. I just love the idea though, of so for me, when I'm working with a client and we're working, we're talking about their their niche, for example, afraid of like saying no to half the population or whatever. And I'm saying, but you know what? You don't want to waste your time with people who aren't perfect for you. And if your story and your brand attract exactly who you want to work for, work with, then you're not wasting your time and you're gonna get far less nosed because you're gonna have the right people in your funnel. There's a lot of people who are afraid of like, what, well, what about that? I'm like, if you have a hundred good clients, you're gonna have a great business. So you don't need five billion people. You need a really good, strong 100, 200 people that you have a rich relationship with that will really help you grow your business. So let's really hone in on those 100 or 200 people. Um, and I think for me, like that's the ultimate power of the no in some ways, uh, for yourself as a business owner. I have a whole chapter in my book called The Sacred No. It's not the way you're talking about it. It's the sacred no for yourself, like saying no to people who are gonna waste your time, saying no to tire kickers, saying no to things that aren't that don't, you know, um fuel you, that don't give you energy, that don't like those are the things that you need to be saying yes to that support your focus, that support the business goals, that um align with the the way the company is going, right? And I feel like going for the no with other somebody else is also kind of the same thing. Like you don't want someone to come in that doesn't really want your work because you're never gonna satisfy them. You're you're never gonna get the good testimonial from that person, you're never gonna like let them say no and self-select and be out, and then you can move on to somebody who actually is a yes. Like there's something really empowering that. But I do believe as founders, specifically, I think women, when we are visible in front of our brand and we hear no, it can be crushing. So, how do you how do you balance going for the no in a really healthy way and also kind of process that from a not take it personal in some in so much ways? Because I think it is people take it so personal, and it really isn't about you. It's it do they have the budget? Do they have um the bandwidth to do this thing right now? Do they believe in themselves? Do they like there's a whole nother layer that's happening behind that has nothing to do with you, right? So, how do we not take it so personal?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

So I love that question, but I also have to comment on what you said about um and you called it the sacred no. I I love that so much because I think the skills really go hand in hand. Your ability to say no to other people's asks, I feel like goes is very synergistic with being able to go for no to someone else and ask because it all comes down to your um ability to communicate courageously and to kind of be vulnerable and put yourself out there. And so when you say no to somebody, you feel like, wow, I'm you you're in your head because you you know how it feels. So you're like, oh, I don't want to disappoint them. And I know I know this is important to them, or whatever story you're telling yourself. And when you get good at saying no, you get good at going for no as well. And all from a marketing standpoint, being able to shave off the people that are not good fits. And one of the examples I love is the Viking Cruise brochure. I talk about this all the time. Uh, and they've got a no page of what they don't offer on their cruises. So, what you won't find, they don't have a casino, they don't do the big giant fruity drinks with all the stuff in them. You know, they they for people who don't want to dress up, you know, they just want to go on a boat and and sail around, it's there's not a big formal night. So if you're brilliant, right? Oh brilliant. I'm my website, Andrea. I love this so much. I know. So if you're like into all that, you see that and you very quickly disqualify yourself or qualify yourself and say, oh heck yes, I've got to go on this cruise, right? And so I and so I love that. But to the question at hand about taking no personally, one of my favorite things to say about this is it's never, and you said it, it's not never about you. It's about every and it's never about you, even when it is about you. So it's like even when it has something to do with you, that um you live in this part of the country, or or you have this accent, or or even as it partakes to biases and people's weird things, or I don't want to work with somebody who does this, or I don't want to, they have a background at they have a financial background, I don't want to work with somebody like that. Like all of that, it's about you, but it's really all about them.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

And so we have to really embrace that, right? Yes, and what they think that they need as opposed to what you know that they need, there could be a whole different disconnect in that. Yeah, that is freeing, so freeing, and Andrea, because what I've observed with working with so many female founders specifically is this idea that to claim, to claim their power, to keep their power and not give it away to everyone. And I think through the power of no, both with saying the sacred no to yourself and going for the no with your client, that's like your power in some way, and guarding it with every bit of you so that nobody else can have that of you. And women inherently want everyone, like you said, that we're nurturers, we want everyone to be happy, want to take care of everybody. It's kind of the antithesis of what of what this is, but I believe that it's a really healthy uh model to embrace for women. And even if you just get a little bit better at it, you'll be better. So it doesn't have to be like all in. Eventually, maybe you get there. I still am working on this, Andrea. And I know all the things like I've been to the training, I I believe in the sacred no. I'll I preach the sacred no, but there's something there is something inherently I do, I generally care about people and I want to help people. And so it's hard for me sometimes to to balance the care that I have with the power that I have and not giving it away to everyone. So I feel like to my listeners who are listening, if you're struggling with that a little bit, like you feel like you want to help everyone, but you don't know how to kind of um hold on to that, to start with that. Where do people start with this, Andrea? How do they grow into this? Like what what what is the process that you offer?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

So, from a go-for-no standpoint, a couple pieces of advice. The first thing I I encourage people to do is to create a know awareness. Really look at like where you where you are with your ability and your willingness to ask for things. You know, we've got this five failure level model in our in our book, Go for No, which is a fable, by the way. It's not even a traditional book, it's a fable. And the but the model that we share in our book is that the first level to being willing to fail, and and by that I mean being willing to hear no, is just to have the ability. The second level is willingness. And so I'm hoping that listeners who listen to our show develop the willingness to say, you know what, I'm willing to try this. And that requires that you figure out where you are now. So think about how how often do you ask? Do you hear no very often? Or do you make those attempts? Do you do what you did, Beverly, which was, you know what, there's a high likelihood Mel Robbins was gonna say no to this, but I'm gonna ask anyway. Those are the most powerful asks that that's actually level four. That's what we call failing bigger and faster. That that is really where things can go crazy for you in your in your business and creating opportunities. So that that is really you're way jumping ahead there.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah, um because she's one year old, Andrea. I've had a lot of practice at this. Like that's one year old saying no, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

And that's the thing is when you get good at asking, that's where you ascend to you know those next levels. So I would encourage people to start with just that creating that no awareness and seeing where they are. And I I call it a practice. I loved, I love to compare it to yoga, which I I wish I I used, yeah. Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's a practice that you can you can do when the opportunity arises. I call that a go-for-no moment. So there's that moment where you say, Oh, this is a moment where I could ask the question, but also you can create your own go-for-no moment. So you you seize them, you say, like, oh, this is a a potential opportunity for me to make an ask. So sometimes they come to you, sometimes you go to them, but it's about doing that practice.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

So two things kind of came up for me when you were talking. One is I call the you know, the flying monkeys of distraction, fear of doubt, perfectionism, pastor syndrome. That's information for us to know we're leveling up. When we feel those things, it I see you don't have to like put them in a cage per se, but like put them on your shoulder and like ask it like, what are you trying to teach me right now? And I think a no can be the same way. Can it be the same way?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Absolutely. If we look at no as teaching us something, it can be very powerful. And if we look at uh how we respond to it, one of the things that happens for me, and I think this is kind of because no is biologically wired into us, is that oftentimes when I get a big rejection, uh, when I get a small rejection, I I mean at this point I can just laugh it off. Sometimes if it's something I really want, I feel it physically, and that's by design. So I think we have to just appreciate the scared feelings, the disappointed feelings. All of the feelings, the emotions that we feel are put there for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

They're information that this mattered, or information that you need to do something differently, or information to uh ask a different way, or like there's it's information for us to evolve in some way. I feel like and that's what fear and doubt, perfectionism and impostures. If if you are feeling imposter syndrome, it just means you haven't done it enough to like for it to be muscle memory. I feel like it doesn't mean you can't do it, it just doesn't mean you haven't done it enough to feel like that. But like there's a lot of things, perfectionism, it might be something where you were learned, you taught you were taught when you were little that you had to do things perfectly to succeed. Well, when you're doing it to 85%, it doesn't mean you're doing it bad. You just like this is information for you as a person to understand that this matters, or that I could do it's information to do something differently, or knowledge to maybe change the approach, or maybe it's not even to change, it's a it's confirmation that that person wasn't the right person. It's just information for you. It is not personal in so many ways, but you do you can have a physical reaction, like with fear, doubt, that can feel very physical inside of you. So when I start to feel it, I usually like stop and like name it. Okay, I feel fear. So maybe in that moment you could say, okay, I feel a little disappointed. Um, why? Like kind of evolve that into like what it is, so that the next time it doesn't feel so scary or doesn't feel as hard. So that you can name it right away. Once you name it, you take away its power. Like it's amazing how like that removes the power. The other thing you said, Andrea, that was really uh powerful to me, because it's kind of the way I believe too. I think we have a lot of synergies in the way we believe is intentionality is. Incredibly it can develop you in ways that you've never been developed. So intentionally going for the no, intentionally um doing the hard ass, making the hard ass, the level four ask, whatever it is. Intentionally doing that uh changes the way you approach it. So if we intentionally go for the fear, like or the perfectionism and we address it, it changes your relationship to it. It's it's as if you have the power now versus the thing has the power. And so I love the intentional like the 21 days exercise you mentioned earlier about like the lady who was going for the nose. Like it's a it's a muscle you have to practice. And when you intentionally do the reps, it may be hard at first, but after you know, 10 days, the muscles adjust and it's not nearly as hard. And then if you do something harder and it and it hurts again for the next little bit, then it but the intentionality is the superpower around this, I feel like. And the exercise that you offer, is that on your website, the 21-day challenge? Is that on the website in some way?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Or yeah, so that's uh like a coaching program that we're actually folding into a whole new experience that we're creating. So yeah, it it's um, but we actually created a workbook. So you can do anyone could do a 21-day challenge, like a self-directed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I think that's a great exercise to practice. Um, we really push our founders to work through some of those things as well, not the go-for-no per se, but the sacred no, the perfectionism, some of that stuff that we carry. We talk about the shit suitcase that society conditions us with um as women, the binary we live within, you know, of like, you know, be assertive, but don't be aggressive, like don't be bossy, dress nice, but don't be sexy. We have to constantly walk this like really weird line to show up as ourselves authentically, which can be really challenging. One of the things that was that was in your application that I loved um was this idea that go for no was not showing enough of your personality in the beginning, like you were having to evolve as a brand. Can you talk a little bit about that evolution and what what this looked like for you?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yeah, it has evolved. It's it's evolved, I think, with um listening to our customers really and listening to um like what they tell us and what their struggles are. I think for a long time we were so focused on uh more sales and and fear of rejection, and it almost felt a little more defensive. And we've kind of over the years evolved to where it's more proactive intentionality, as you said, into asking. So it was a little bit more of helping people kind of like overcome the fear of rejection, overcome your fear of no. And now, and this is all kind of marketing. It's like the concept hasn't changed, but you realize that your messaging needs to adapt and that what people want is something different than maybe what you're how you're explaining it, even though they were getting it, it's like explain it better on the front end. And so now we're far more about being proactive, about make being courageous, making those courageous asks, and that noah's going to be a part of that. How do you how do you deal with that? But that that's a that's a big that's a big shift, and also technology, right? Technology is making so many things easier, but people still have to at the end of the day, like they still have to push the send button. And I I I found that even go for no from a marketing standpoint can be part of that. I don't want to publish this yet. I don't want to send this email, I don't want to do this thing. They say no to themselves instead of like, hey, let the market say no to you.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Well, I I learned it as like sun out of your own pocket. Like you are you're like limiting yourself based on your own beliefs versus what the market is saying. So, yes, like don't just because you don't have the budget doesn't mean somebody else doesn't have the budget. Like, be careful of limiting yourself in that way. Yes, so powerful. Um, so many people just you know need to hear. The listening part is incredibly, incredibly important from a branding perspective, a messaging perspective for me is content. How what are all the ways I can slice and dice this? What are the questions you're asking? You're asking about messaging and this way. That's a great blog post for me. I'll talk about that at some point. So, like, how do you incorporate directly in the work you're doing the marketing that you that you should do into it as a natural extension, as opposed to this nebulous uh other thing over here that needs to be like on Mondays, I do these two things like separate from the work that I do? So, how do you incorporate that into the work that you actually do? So, like even in the brand spark experience, we take that transcript and we have AI analyze it for those like phrases that are like magic when it comes to marketing. So try that's my biggest tip for you as you develop your systems is how do you incorporate marketing in some way into your actual processes so it's not separate. You you're sales, your salespeople, you know how important marketing is. So like weave it into there and make it as as important as the process itself so that as many people can be exposed to it as possible.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah, I love that. That's really good advice. Yeah, and we will be, we will be looking at that for sure. I mean, like fun, fun thing, and you made me just think of this like mining for content, even in like in our private community, if somebody asks a question taking that right, and I'm like, I think this is goes right into our newsletter.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yes, absolutely. It's all right there. You don't have to think about it. And AI is amazing because it can mine for you. You don't have to manually mine and just say, like, okay, from this week, what was the best 10 ideas for content based on interactions or whatever, and let it do that work for you. And then you write the content and like it's the AI is built for that kind of work for you to still make it human, but not be generic, you know, like that's the part that becomes really fantastic. So yeah, that to totally do that. I love it. I can't wait to I can't wait to see how it changes for you because that's exciting when you can kind of like, oh, we have this already. We just need to like use it a little differently than we have been using it. And I mean, that's the other thing is ask AI. I have a community, I have a podcast, I have this. What are the ways that I can use it to mine? Like, ask it because it may we can give other ideas that we're not talking about today.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

So you're so right about asking it too. Yeah. I we're we're we're an AI first come. Like we every time we seem clueless about something, we're like, wait a minute, why are we even debating this? We need to ask. What's this? And so it's it'll give you pros and cons.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

It'll give you all kinds of oh, yeah. Really help you kind of narrow it down. Yeah, this is such a great conversation, Andrea, and such real stuff that I think is happening for most founders. And you know, I I love marketing and branding, and I geek out about it and I could talk about it all day. And I'm sure you feel the same way about sales and going for the no. And uh, but other things may be harder for you, whether it's finance or operations or marketing. Um, for me, I my first hire was a CPA because I wasn't gonna do the numbers because that is not my jam. You want me to look tortured? That is what you're I what that's what torture looks like for me. I love the story that it tells, but I don't like the work to get there. That's just not how my brain works. So AI is awesome for some of that because it can analyze my reports, it can analyze like it tells me a story, which is amazing. AI can be a great tool. Somebody I was reading today, uh I think I was on LinkedIn, somebody calls it their boyfriend. Seriously. Yeah, it's so funny, right? Like I put like AI has become become so interesting to people, but um, great ways to use tech. I'm actually gonna be on a uh AI podcast later today talking about branding and AI. And this is one of the best ways you can use it. Testimonials are another way, like you can, you know, use systems. One thing that I did maybe to help you too, Andrea, just real quickly on systems is I loomed every system that I did. Like I would record every process that I did throughout throughout my day for a month. Like I just recorded it, talked through it as I did it. Like I didn't spend a separate time to like do these things as I did my tasks during the day. I would just record that task, talk through it, show the screen. Then I would use AI to create an SOP for that. And then once I had all my SOPs together, I asked AI to like, where what am I missing? What do I still need? Analyze it for me to see what, like how could I improve it? Like all of those things. AI is fantastic for some of that kind of stuff too. Systems, understanding step one, step two. Um, yeah, perfect. So for me, that was like life-changing to do that.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah, yeah. Uh, here's one that you probably don't know and haven't thought about is I run ads on Amazon for my book. And I have I have AI um helped me and has really helped me um create not the not the copy so much. Well, the copy too, a little bit, but there's a lot of um decisions that have to be made when you're coming up with the Amazon ads, like percentage and spend and different things, and it knows all of that. And it's incredible because uh a couple of years ago it was you would literally have to take almost a college course to figure it out. And now I just go into does all the math for you and make sure all the math. And I'm like, what do you think of this ad? Is it performing? Oh, yeah, it's performing so well. Don't do a thing. It's like, okay, good. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

See, so it's like that. Um, I call the sous chef. So it's like the sous chef in the kitchen with you, yeah, helping to like slice and dice stuff for you so that you can prepare the big meal for the people. It's doing all of that for you. Hey, I need this. Okay, get let me give you that. Like, it is a great sous chef in the kitchen for you. Amazing. Love this. Okay, so my last question, I always end the podcast with this is what does wickedly branded mean to you? The phrase. How do you think you show up as that? And what advice would you give to our listeners to do more of that, to be more wickedly branded?

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Uh well, to me, wickedly branded. So I I I love it because I'm guessing it has something to do with wicked. Okay. Now, and and and I'm such a huge fan of Wicked. I've seen it twice um in the theater, and I'm such a fan. Well, and and I go way back to Wizard of Oz, like I was like obsessed, literally obsessed. Yeah. Um and so to me, the brand is fun, like it's just all fun. Your website is so fun, everything is so well branded, no detail is overlooked. And so the to me, what that says is like people want and I think are attracted to the fun brands, whether it's colors and you see, you see, like even the buses at the airport that are wrapped with the yellow and spotted things that stands out, right? And so it just reminds me to have fun in your with your brand and to do fun things. In fact, I have right here. We this is a simple thing, but it's it's sales stress, go for no, little, and it's a brain, which as well. Yeah, so I'm like doing so. Your brand is all I think, and I'm sure you're very good, and obviously very, very good with systems and all that stuff, but to just have to take a point of view, it's so easy to just be like boring, but to really take a point of view is is scary because you you know that like, oh, other people, some people aren't gonna get it, some people aren't gonna like it, some people, oh, that's dumb. Um, Go for No is stupid. And I hear that. And you know what? I don't care because I have a bunch of other people who are like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. So I focus I focus on those people. I don't care about the the other people. Yes, and so I think you're I think to me it means take a point of view and have fun.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

That's brilliant. So Alpha Bot was green, right? Like embrace your green. The idea is that you whatever it is makes magic for you is the thing that that is what makes you unique. You don't have to look to for a differentiator, you are unique, and going more in and onto who you are and your perspective is your superpower, especially in the world of AI where everything is becoming very generic. And for me, it is in the details. Like I love like our little wand cursor on our website. And I love that when you click on a button, it like wait, like it like sparkles and like and you know, we walk a line though, Andrea. Like it's all magical and foo-foo, but it's grounded in method and um research, like deep research. And so for me, my my ideal clients are women founders. So for me, let's make it girly. We we loved sparkles and unicorns when we were kids. Why does it have to end when you turn 13? Like it can't, it can't continue. So for me, it was like that is who I am. I I love sparkle. If you come into my office, I have a whole shelf of unicorns, I have several different ones. I have even my like tape dispenser and my and my they're all sparkly. Like, this is who I am. So why not make it part of my brand and really go all in? Because when you work with me, you're gonna get some of that magic too. Like that is all part of who I am. Um, and it is it's taking a perspective, but that perspective is your superpower in the world of marketing and branding and messaging. It is the way for you to go all in in all the little details that make you you and matter to you. And we love that. Like we just worked with a um a graphic design, not graphic, she's an artist, and she's a very unique artist. She's got she's neurodivergent and she sees the world in layers. Like that's how her brain works. And when she paints, she paints in layers, and there's like multiple things happening in the paintings. And so we were able to take um textures from her paintings and use them as part of her brand. So it's like this subtle, the subtle hint to her, but we don't oftentimes have those kind of assets to use. But it was really exciting because we could actually take her work and make it part of her brand. And that is a hundred percent her. Like no one else is gonna have that. That's so completely unique. And she was like, This is so cool because it was so her. And now when she shares her website and she's like, That's me, it's her. Like there's nothing else but her in it. And she feels she said, You've given me confidence to show up as me because it looks so beautiful. And so when you are taking your perspective and you're sitting in it so much in like a full intentional way, you you're you do have more confidence and the way you show up, and people feel that energy of confidence, oh yeah, and want to be in your orbit. And so once Elvaba found her power, her whole character changed, right? And so I believe that there's magic in each of us. We just help awaken it, activate it, and amplify it in the world, right? So there's so much power in your perspective. I that's a perfect way to describe it, Andrea. Everybody kind of describes it differently. And I love that I love that so much because that is that is a beautiful thing to me, that it has meaning in in its phrase, and also to people through the movie, through all kinds of things. Wicked also means like awesome. And there's so many ways to approach it. So it's true.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Um, okay, so tell people where people can find you, your website. I think you have a free offer, um, your favorite social platform. Like, tell us where we can hang out with Andrea and learn more about Go for the No.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yes. Um, well, come to our website at goforno.com, just like it sounds. And we have a fun quiz. It's really easy. And you take that and it will tell you if you have a high, low, or um medium no quotient, which is your thoughts and feelings around failure, rejection, success. That's the best place to start. And also, our book is on Amazon. It's an uh easy read, 80-page fable. So it's a great place to start.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Awesome. I'll have to go get it. I'm excited about it. Um, Andrea, this has been really fun. This is a great conversation for us to be having today in this time um with the founders that I think are our listeners. And I just am so glad that you've been here with us today.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Thank you for having me, Beverly. It was a super great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

To the listeners, I really hope that today's episode maybe made you a little more courageous. Maybe maybe gave you some new ideas on how to make an ask, but most of all, inspired you to take some sort of action to go for no. Because here's what I know for sure: your work matters, your message matters, and the world needs to hear what you have to say. Make the ask, you guys. Like, this is do it. The world is waiting for you to do it. Um, I believe that marketing isn't just about visibility, it's about the impact you make. And when you ask for more things, you never know what's gonna happen. The impact can like quadruple. Like, if I get on Mel Robins, that could change everything, right? So it's about connecting with the right people in a way that feels true to you. Um, and so I want you to keep showing up, keep sharing your brilliance and keep making making magic in the world. And hey, if you ever, ever feel stuck, you don't have to do it alone. I'm here, Andrew is here. We want to help you turn your spark into a wildfire. Until next time, I dare you to be wickedly branded.