36. From Misdiagnosis to Mocktail Mastery: Mocktail Mo's Journey to Alcohol-Free Living

Meet Mo, aka "Mocktail Mo," whose journey to alcohol-free living began not with recovery, but with a medical mystery that took years to solve. After experiencing severe illness that doctors couldn't properly diagnose, Mo discovered she had developed alcohol intolerance - a condition that completely changed her relationship with drinking and ultimately led to her calling as a non-alcoholic beverage consultant.

In this candid conversation, Mo shares how exclusion from traditional celebrations sparked her passion for creating inclusive drinking experiences, the surprising community she discovered in the alcohol-free space, and her mission to help restaurants and bars create thoughtful mocktail menus that go beyond "fancy soft drinks."

Key Topics Discussed

Mo's Medical Journey

• Years of unexplained severe illness after drinking
• Misdiagnosis and medical gaslighting
• The friend who finally helped solve the mystery
• Understanding alcohol intolerance vs. allergies

The Birth of Mocktail Mo

• Missing connection and celebration traditions
• The "wall of exclusion" that changed everything
• Learning to respect different approaches to sobriety
• Why some people prefer club soda and lime

The Alcohol-Free Industry

• Current state of restaurant mocktail offerings
• The difference between "fancy soft drinks" and true craft mocktails
• Working with establishments to improve their NA menus
• The challenge of solving problems restaurants don't know they have

Community and Connection

• The supportive alcohol-free community
• A powerful story about finding alcohol-removed wine during her mother's final days
• How restaurants can provide emotional support through inclusive menus

Memorable Quotes

"I was put in this place by fate"

"A very big wall of exclusion popped up for me of no, no, this is not for you"

"You cannot impose what you want on everybody"

"It felt like someone had thrown out a lifesaver to me personally"

"If you're interested in it, there's a reason that you are interested in it"

About Mo (Mocktail Mo)

Mo is a non-alcoholic beverage consultant and mocktail expert who became alcohol-free due to alcohol intolerance. She works with restaurants and bars to create elevated non-alcoholic drink experiences and is passionate about ensuring everyone can participate in celebration and connection, regardless of their drinking status.

Upcoming Events

Fall Into You Retreat

• Date: October (one-day event)
• Location: Chicago
• Time: Noon to 8 PM
• Partners: Heather Lowe (Ditch the Drink) and Kate Denage (Clarity Zero Proof)
• Includes: Arboretum hike, picnic lunch, workshops, mocktail demonstrations, dinner, and wellness activities
• Registration: HERE

Resources Mentioned

• Alcohol intolerance vs. alcohol allergy
• Asian flush syndrome
• Alcohol-removed wines and non-alcoholic beers
• Ditched the Drink
• Clarity Zero Proof

Connect with Mocktail Mo

Website - MocktailMo.com

Instagram - @Mocktail.mo

Youtube - Zero = More

Substack - Mo's Mocktail Diaries

Connect with AF Superpowers:

•  Website 
•  Instagram

Transcript

MO (00:26)
so I would venture a guess that and inform that inform your audience that my, ⁓ alcohol free life started when I became intolerant to alcohol. And I don't know why that happened. I don't know exactly how, other than probably age, you know,

Jennifer Reed (00:49)
Okay.

MO (00:54)
and my liver stopped metabolizing alcohol and so I just got sick. Period. And ⁓ my story is ⁓ less of a recovery story and more of a ⁓ I was put in this place by fate. ⁓

I couldn't figure out why I was getting sick. I didn't understand it. I didn't correlate the two.

I thought I was allergic to wine. And then, so I kind of stopped drinking wine. And then I thought, I know at first I thought it was white wine, and then I had a glass of red wine, and it made me sick as well. And I thought, well I'm allergic to wine. I'm allergic to sulfites or whatever it is that's in wine makes me sick. And what I mean by sick is not hung over but.

Jennifer Reed (01:37)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

MO (02:03)
like

vomiting for three days and migraines and it's like sick, sick. And it happened on weekends because you know, on Friday I'd come home and have a glass of wine and be sick for the rest of the weekend. And I guess it took me a while. I guess I didn't think that through very clearly. And the last drink I had, I met friends.

Jennifer Reed (02:06)
wow. huh. Yeah.

MO (02:33)
And I tell people this story all the time. I met friends, I had an old fashioned, we all went to dinner together. That was the only drink I had. I had water or whatever after with dinner. We all shared, so we all shared nachos together. Our hands were in the same place. And the next day, the people I was with wanted to take me to the hospital. I was that sick.

Jennifer Reed (02:44)
Okay. Mm-hmm.

Interesting. And they're all fine, right?

MO (03:04)
And they're fine,

absolutely fine. And I was not at home. I was out of town. So I said, no, don't take me to the hospital here. ⁓ Drive me home. And they took me directly to urgent care. And they thought I had norovirus. And I knew I didn't because norovirus is highly contagious. And so I,

Jennifer Reed (03:22)
Hmm.

⁓ okay.

Okay.

MO (03:33)
I started doing research wondering what the heck is this? What is wrong with me? And ⁓ I Googled allergies to alcohol and it sort of led me into the direction of intolerance to alcohol. like I said, it was a gradual over time kind of situation that it took me forever to figure out because evidently I'm

Jennifer Reed (03:40)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MO (04:02)
I wasn't that bright about it. ⁓

Jennifer Reed (04:07)
No, I think that's

probably how most would be, but...

MO (04:13)
But ⁓ I went to the doctor and my day job is at a medical school and I went to a doctor and this doctor told me that I'm not washing my hands enough and that was at a time when I was teaching medical students how to wash their hands and I before I left I said I just want to be really clear about this you're telling me

Jennifer Reed (04:21)
Alright.

Well.

MO (04:41)
that I don't wash my hands enough and that's my problem. And he said, yup, that's it, that's it. And I was like, well, okay. Okay. And I never went back to him again.

Jennifer Reed (04:47)
You did

it.

MO (04:54)
Yeah, but I read about it and then I talked to a friend of mine who is an emergency room doctor and I said, these are my symptoms, what do I have? And she said, ⁓ well, you're probably of ⁓ Asian ancestry because that is kind of the biggest group of people who have alcohol intolerance. I thought, well, that's new to me. But she said, you have intolerance.

Jennifer Reed (05:14)
Okay. Mm-hmm.

MO (05:23)
alcohol intolerance and and so that was it took me a little while to figure it out, but in 2018 ⁓ I stopped drinking completely and Realizing that it's it's not worth it to have that one drink and hopefully It is okay ⁓

So I just let it go completely what I have in common and how I align

with people in recovery is I missed it. I missed that celebration. I missed the connection that you have with people.

Jennifer Reed (05:56)
Mm.

MO (06:06)
I missed, during the holiday season, I would cook with my mom and we would have a bourbon or as we're cooking, it was very Julia Childs. And it was a part of it and then all of a sudden it was not a part of it. And it wasn't, I wouldn't say my identity shifted.

Jennifer Reed (06:10)
Okay. Okay.

MO (06:34)
but a very big

wall of exclusion popped up for me of no, no, this is not for you, no, no. And that is when Mocktail Mo was born. Bless you.

Jennifer Reed (06:36)
⁓ Excuse me. So I think

it's allergies. So that's when the website and when you started going down the path of options for ⁓ restaurants and whatnot, right?

MO (07:04)
Yes, yeah, at that time I just went around to restaurants and said, okay, hi, I'm Mocktail Moe, what do you have? And ⁓ they had nothing, zero. And I would say that in some ways it has really improved and in other ways it is exactly the same. that is the disappointing part for me. And that is sort of what... ⁓

Jennifer Reed (07:19)
Mm-hmm.

⁓ okay.

MO (07:34)
lit the flame of my passion of people being able to drink what they want but without alcohol. They don't want the alcohol but they want an experience. And I am, like I said, I'll talk to you all day about this. I'll talk to you until your ears fall off about what it means to me to be able for anyone to have what experience they want because

Jennifer Reed (07:40)
Uh-huh.

MO (08:02)
I've talked to people who have said, ⁓ no, iced tea is where I'm at and you, I don't want you to remind me of what I came back from.

Jennifer Reed (08:02)
Mm-hmm.

so what you were saying is some people didn't want the drinks that they used to have without alcohol. They wanted something that was totally not, well, although iced tea, you could get an iced tea, but they wanted it not a drink that would remind them of what they were missing out. Is that right? Okay, that's interesting.

MO (08:25)
Well, yeah.

Yes, yeah. Yeah, I had

that conversation early on because I was very, you know, rah-rah.

this needs to change and ⁓ it was with a local radio person and he talked to me off air and said, you cannot impose what you want on everybody because I do not want to be reminded of what I walked away from. And I grew a very big respect for people in recovery who don't want that experience.

Jennifer Reed (08:42)
Mm-hmm.

MO (09:09)
They're very, very happy with a club soda and lime. You know? And that does, that is their comfort zone. My comfort zone is I want to experiment, it's like a culinary thing. I want to try all the flavors. I want to experiment and see what combinations work together and ⁓ create cocktails, really, is kind of.

Jennifer Reed (09:10)
Okay.

Okay.

Yeah, that's

MO (09:39)
my fun thing and I did I I went out to dinner with my husband the other night and ⁓ He's very much he's a foodie and He does not like going out to dinner because he can do better at home

Jennifer Reed (09:57)
Hmm

MO (09:58)
And I said to him and I'm not a cook so I said to him I finally understand What you've been saying all this time? Because I make much better drinks at home

Jennifer Reed (10:00)
⁓ Mm-hmm.

MO (10:09)
than I can get at a restaurant. And that sort of is what I'm all about is I want to be able to go somewhere and have something that's very thought provoking, interesting, flavorful, makes me want to come back for more. ⁓

I don't want club soda and lime or ginger beer and pineapple juice or lemonade with syrup.

Jennifer Reed (10:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MO (10:40)
And that's kind of

what is on offer right now in most places. Yeah.

Jennifer Reed (10:45)
Gotcha.

So what is your goal with Mocktail Mo

MO (10:51)
Mm-hmm.

I'm struggling with that right now, honestly. My goal, my, I guess the aspiration is to be able to get through to these restaurant owners and bar managers and everyone and get buy-in from them that this is worthwhile. This should be on their menu.

⁓ I know that a lot of them have menus, but like I said, it's pretty much the most exotic thing on there is ginger beer. And ⁓ my aspiration would be to work hand in hand with, you know, across the globe, wherever, work hand in hand with restaurants and create experiences with them for their guests that is exciting and not... ⁓

Jennifer Reed (11:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

MO (11:53)
sort of feeling like a box has been checked.

Jennifer Reed (11:57)
I gotcha. So, since you mentioned being able to make a lot of really good drinks or mocktails at home, have you thought about packaging those and selling them to restaurants, bars, or even wholesale?

MO (11:59)
That's the big dream. Yeah.

Well, the thing is I use a lot of different ingredients. It's not just one formulation of a drink. It is working with a lot of different brands and putting them in a glass and creating something there, which kind of is what I want to do, consulting with restaurants and saying, check this out. Try this. And let's...

do this on your menu. Let's see what your guests say about that experience. I don't really want to go into the beverage business. Nor do I really want to become a bartender.

Jennifer Reed (12:51)
Right,

you know

MO (12:59)
I kind of have ⁓ ideas for a broader reach than ⁓ one venue or just me. I would rather talk to all the people who have guests who don't know. So I encountered someone. I was at ⁓ the Crested Butte Wine Festival and I was talking about alcohol-free, alcohol-removed wines.

Jennifer Reed (13:01)
Thank

Okay.

MO (13:29)
And this woman said to me, I am not your customer. I was like, yeah, that's true. However,

Jennifer Reed (13:36)
Okay.

MO (13:39)
you might be serving some people who are and you don't know it.

Jennifer Reed (13:43)
Good point.

MO (13:44)
And they would

really, really appreciate you reaching out to them at their level. And then she understood what I was all about. It's not just one person. I'm not against these establishments serving alcohol. That's their business. I want to improve their business. So that everybody, if you...

want to have that experience, can. It's new, I think, is the problem, is it's a new thing.

Jennifer Reed (14:21)
Now, do you feel like it is changing? Like, I'm in a really small town and there's a few restaurants that have really great mocktail menus. Not all, just a few. so I...

MO (14:33)
I'm not.

Jennifer Reed (14:34)
I'm even surprised at the few that do here. Excuse me.

MO (14:40)
Same, same. I'm in a small town and some of them do have, mean one in particular knocks my socks off every time. But then the rest of them do kind of have that whole, yes we have a mocktail menu, it has a lavender lemonade on it and we're going to charge $10 for it.

Jennifer Reed (14:42)
Okay.

Bye.

Yeah.

MO (15:09)
It's kind of a wah-wah moment for me. I just think we can do better.

Jennifer Reed (15:12)
⁓ I gotcha. ⁓

yeah, no, I hear ya. So I wanted to go back and kind of talk to you about the allergy. How common is that? Do you know?

MO (15:30)
think it's more common than we realize simply because of conversations that I've had with people who have said, yeah, alcohol, those hangovers are a lot more serious. I can't really deal with it anymore. I'm really backing off ⁓ alcohol consumption. So I think that it may not be

Jennifer Reed (15:36)
Okay. ⁓

Okay.

MO (15:57)
documented or anything, but I do believe that it is more common than we realize. And I think that people just sort of power through it. But I think that it's, honestly, I think it's an age thing. I think that we just don't manufacture whatever that enzyme is that breaks down the ethanol and we just hang on to it longer and it becomes...

Jennifer Reed (16:04)
Well.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

MO (16:27)
more toxic in our system. So I hope that's a clear enough answer. I think that it documented

it's really people of Asian descent, the Asian community struggle with this primarily. then, and I think it's called the Asian flush that when they drink alcohol, their cheeks get really bright red. And because it's not, it's

Jennifer Reed (16:42)
So

⁓

MO (16:57)
sticking in their blood vessels or something like that.

That's the part that's documented, but just anecdotally talking to people, more and more people say, yeah man, I just don't drink alcohol like I used to because it makes me feel bad, or worse than it ever did before. Yeah.

Jennifer Reed (17:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, makes

sense. And how long from when you first started not feeling great to when you figured out, ⁓ I am allergic to this, do you know?

MO (17:28)
It took me a few years.

It did because I guess it wasn't every time and I was shying away from it so much that it wasn't like, okay Tuesday I got sick so let's try it on Thursday again. You know what I mean? I was like, that was a horrible experience. And then six months later I would try it again. Do you know what I mean? So it took me...

Jennifer Reed (17:53)
Okay. huh. Yep.

MO (18:01)
It took me a couple of years, I think, to really understand what this was and why I just had to let go of alcohol completely.

Jennifer Reed (18:10)
⁓

So you mentioned missing the community or I guess the connection and the celebration. How is, how do you now have that back without out?

MO (18:23)
Mm-hmm.

yes, with mocktails and, ⁓ honestly, alcohol removed wine is really getting there. It's really, when it first started, it was not good. But I mean, when it, when beer was the only option was O'Doul's and it was not good. But the beer category, the wine category, they're really very much kind of there now where you can enjoy it.

Jennifer Reed (18:30)
with the mocktails, right?

huh.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

MO (19:01)
So what I do is I call in advance and ask them.

I am meeting friends or I am having dinner with my husband at your restaurant.

Jennifer Reed (19:11)
Okay.

MO (19:15)
Do you have, ⁓ I don't drink alcohol, do you have a cork fee? Is it okay if I bring something with me? Because I have celebrated a few times with my husband ⁓ an anniversary or a birthday or something and I am drinking water. We're toasting and I'm drinking water. ⁓

Jennifer Reed (19:23)
Okay.

MO (19:39)
That's really disappointing.

Jennifer Reed (19:39)
Yeah. Yeah. I get that. On your website, you mention a story about going out and ⁓ drinking or having a drink with your son and that kind of changed things. Is that right? Will you tell that story?

MO (19:58)
Yes, I will tell that story. ⁓

Jennifer Reed (20:01)
It's

MO (20:04)
So it was a very, very, very...

hard time in my life. ⁓ My mother was dying and I was her caregiver and I have told this story before to other people. And it was the only time since I have quit drinking alcohol that I wanted for real. I wanted a drink, I wanted a drink for all of the wrong reasons. I did not want to be in that space anymore and it was almost worth the risk.

Jennifer Reed (20:30)
Hmm.

MO (20:40)
to suffer,

to not feel that. And ⁓ my son had come into town and we went out to dinner and the restaurant had alcohol removed wine on the menu. And it really felt personal to me, although it wasn't. I was just a customer, but it felt like,

Jennifer Reed (21:00)
Okay.

MO (21:10)
⁓ someone had thrown out ⁓ a lifesaver to me personally and they had sort of wrapped their arms around me and said, you know, I got you. Today, you're okay. Yeah. It was, it made all the difference. And I wish that more restaurants understood the depth of caring that they offer.

Jennifer Reed (21:14)
that's a great. Okay.

MO (21:39)
if they have something like that for people who don't drink alcohol.

It is serious. I mean, it's very serious. Yeah.

Jennifer Reed (21:43)
⁓ yeah, I love it. Mm-hmm, yeah.

Well, yeah, I think what you're doing is great. I think what you're doing is great. mean, just that story right there is like, ⁓ yes, exactly. Yeah, it's definitely needed, so.

MO (21:54)
What?

⁓

Yeah.

It is needed. It is. And I think, I struggle, you know, when you ask me, what is the goal? I struggle with getting my point across to restaurants because they don't know they have a problem. And I've seen that in business workshops where they're like, don't try to fix a problem. They don't think they have.

Jennifer Reed (22:14)
of

Mm-hmm.

MO (22:30)
or else they're not gonna listen to you. And I'm like, well, that's exactly what I'm doing. That's precisely what I'm doing is telling them you have a problem that you don't see yet and you feel like you've solved it by having lemonade, by having lavender lemonade.

Jennifer Reed (22:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MO (22:49)
And you kind of have started, but you're not there. You're really not there yet. To me, those are ⁓ fancy soft drinks. And there's a place for fancy soft drinks. And that's sort of A level. But I need you here.

Jennifer Reed (23:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

MO (23:07)
I do. I do. I think more people than just

myself need that.

Jennifer Reed (23:12)
Right.

Yeah. I agree with you. ⁓ So tell me what else you're doing.

MO (23:16)
Yeah. Someone said that, oh, you were there. We were

in that conversation when someone said, the world needs you. I was like, well, that's good to hear.

Jennifer Reed (23:25)
Yes, they

do. Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with it. And I there's a what is that saying? Something about if Henry Ford would have asked his customers what they needed, they would have told him a faster horse. So it's like they just don't maybe know what it is that they need. So you're there to tell them. That's great. I love it. Yeah. So yeah, I was going to ask you what because you have a in October, you have a is it a retreat or wellness?

Venture going on, is that right? Okay, do you mind talking about that a little bit?

MO (23:57)
Yes.

Oh, I'd love to, I'd love to. I am working with Heather Lowe from Ditch the Drink and Kate Denage from Clarity Zero Proof and we just wanted to have a really great day of just connecting, grounding. We're gonna do a hike in the Arboretum.

Jennifer Reed (24:10)
you

MO (24:29)
We're in Chicago, so it's a one-day event in Chicago from noon till eight and we will have this lovely ⁓ picnic lunch and I'm going to do some sort of fun drink after the hike and Heather is going to do some workshops for preparing for this next season.

⁓ It is her jam. She loves fall. So she wants to get everybody sort of revved up for the last quarter of the year and get ready for the holiday season on our terms. So that means without alcohol, but with connection to ourselves and others. ⁓ And then we're going to have this wonderful meal prepared by Kate. And I will be doing

Jennifer Reed (24:59)
Okay.

Hmm.

MO (25:25)
a little happy hour drink and then a dessert drink and ⁓

Jennifer Reed (25:29)
⁓

MO (25:31)
we'll do a yoga nidra exercise, relaxation exercise and a sound bath. So it is this wonderful all encompassing day of transformation and I keep calling it centered celebration. kind of centering ourselves and preparing for

Jennifer Reed (25:48)
⁓ I like that.

MO (25:55)
the new season. But yeah, it's great. If you want to go, go to ditchedthedrink.com and backslash fall into you and you'll find our event there.

Jennifer Reed (26:10)
And you still have openings. Is that right?

MO (26:13)
We have a

few. We have a few. We don't have a lot, but we have a few openings, yes. Yeah. And I'd love to see everybody there. It'll be great fun. Yeah. Just sort of very low-key good. Good day. Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Reed (26:20)
Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah.

⁓ Sounds amazing. does. Yeah, absolutely.

One thing I like to touch on is the benefits of going alcohol free. Now, of course for you, it sounds like you got rid of migraines and being very sick, so that's great. Anything else that you noticed or that maybe surprised you when you would stop drinking?

MO (26:48)
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

An entire community opened up to me when I stopped drinking. And a community of people who are so supportive and open-hearted and open-minded, it is a community of people that in this day and age I find incredibly rare. People who, they don't care where you are in the spectrum of sobriety. They really don't care.

Jennifer Reed (27:03)
⁓ okay, cool.

MO (27:25)
They don't care if you drink and then you don't drink. They don't care if you're completely sober in recovery and struggling. A lot of loving arms are out there in this community of support. that was the most remarkable thing that I discovered was that the people in this space are kind of fabulous, amazing humans.

Jennifer Reed (27:26)
Mm-hmm.

MO (27:53)
And that was kind of life-assuring.

Jennifer Reed (27:54)
I love that.

Yeah, no, that's great because no one's ever said that, you know, or like they bring up a lot of things about sleep and skin and but that's a very good point. Thank you for I love that.

That's a good reminder.

MO (28:10)
Well,

I've been kind of blown away by even the people who are very strictly business, the business end of it. They're highly supportive of each other. I mean, yes, they compete and they support each other. It's just a wonderful.

Jennifer Reed (28:14)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

MO (28:30)
ensemble of humans. It's really nice. ⁓

Jennifer Reed (28:33)
Yeah, yeah,

great. I love your positivity. It's so great. Anything else you want to add or thoughts?

MO (28:36)
Yeah.

yes, I do have thoughts. I would say to people who are, intrigued by not drinking and maybe want to try a challenge or, that sort of thing, do it. Do it. If you're interested in it, there's a reason that you are interested in it. And the thing is it.

Jennifer Reed (28:59)
room

⁓

MO (29:09)
it may really suck at first because you're withdrawing from sugar and alcohol.

But there's a reason. There's a reason behind why you're looking in this direction. And I encourage you to explore it, definitely. Because, like I said, we're really awesome community of humans. We kind of rock. Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Reed (29:29)
Mm-hmm. I like that. Yeah, we are. Yeah.

I would like to add that I 100 % agree with you. There's a reason. But there was also a reason that you went to the restaurant you did with your son. You said you're just a customer, but there was a reason. You know? Like, you are where you are now and you didn't have a dream. So.

MO (29:55)
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah.

Jennifer Reed (29:57)
So.

thanks again for coming on. I love your story. It's unique and I think like I said, I think what you're doing is great. So keep going.

MO (30:07)
Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. I love what you're doing. I love listening to your podcast. It's fun and it's interesting.

Jennifer Reed (30:15)
good, thank you.

Thank you. good, I'm glad to hear it. Well, enjoy the rest of your Friday and have a great weekend and I will talk to you soon.

MO (30:19)
Yeah.

Yes. Thanks, Jen.

Jennifer Reed (30:29)
Thanks, bye-bye.

MO (30:31)
Bye.