Unlocking Creative Growth: Joel Pilger on Community, Collaboration, and Business Success

How can community help creatives overcome isolation, grow professionally, and achieve financial independence? In this episode of The Developing Life, Joel Pilger—visionary advisor and founder of Forum—shares his journey of building successful creative businesses and communities.

Discover the challenges Joel faced during his 20-year career running Impossible Pictures, how he turned competitors into collaborators, and why focusing on your genius is essential for long-term success. Joel also explores the future of connection in the age of AI and offers actionable strategies for creatives and founders seeking sustainable growth.

🎧 Topics Covered:

• Overcoming isolation and embracing collaboration
• Building a creative business while staying true to your passion
• Strategies for branding, growth, and financial independence
• How community fuels creative and personal success

👉 Explore more inspiring episodes of The Developing Life here.
👉 Connect with Joel Pilger at joelpilger.com.

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:12:13


00:00:12:13 - 00:00:50:18
Unknown
Welcome to the Developing Life podcast. Creativity often thrives in collaborative environments, and isolation can stifle innovation and growth. How can creatives embrace a community driven approach to support their personal and professional achievements? Today, we are excited to have Joel Pilger, a visionary advisor and mentor in creative industry known for his leadership and community building with a foundational role in developing at the production studio Impossible Pictures and now spearheading initiatives like forum, the Fabulous Podcast and Fuze Private Dinners, designed to support and network top studio owners worldwide.

00:00:50:20 - 00:01:20:07
Unknown
Joel has dedicated his career to transforming how creatives connect and grow, and with a deep understanding of the challenges and opportunities within the creative sectors, he brings a wealth of experience and a unique perspective that cultivates creative strategies that unite. With our host, Deborah Bowman, we'll explore Joel's path to building robust communities among creative professionals to break out of isolation, fostering an ecosystem of collaborative success.

00:01:20:10 - 00:01:48:13
Unknown
Thank you so much. True. Amazing introduction as always, Joel. It is a sincere pleasure to have you with us. Thank you so much for joining us. Is there anything that you want to add to that introduction? We always love to give our guests a moment to introduce themselves to our community. Well, I'm I'm really it's funny, as I was listening to that wonderfully prepared introduction, I found myself saying, wow, whoever that guy is, he sounds kind of awesome.

00:01:48:13 - 00:02:12:00
Unknown
I'd like to meet him, but I think the only thing I would add is that I've been a creative my entire life. So I was one of those kind of weird kids who never quite fit in. But from a young age I was making movies and doing art, and it was also always entrepreneurial. So for me, it's always been very natural to live at this intersection of what I call creativity and commerce.

00:02:12:02 - 00:02:43:03
Unknown
Right? But now we get to talk about something else I think today, which is what's the role of community in that journey? So very happy to be here. And thank you so much for that really awesome and somewhat overwhelming introduction. Yeah. No, it's it's amazing because your self-perception is exactly what drew me to you. I found you on a recent episode of the Future podcast as a brand strategist, talking about the value of structure and community and actually leaning into your joy as a creative.

00:02:43:03 - 00:03:10:13
Unknown
And, you know, every guest that we have on board is for our community. But for me personally, I am going through exactly what you just described. Like I've never felt like I've fit in. I've always wanted to be creative. I've done all of these other things to see how they work, and now I'm at a point where I'm realizing if I don't find my joy and move forward into it, that it's going to be so hard to stay consistent, to feel a sense of belonging or to grow.

00:03:10:13 - 00:03:32:03
Unknown
So your words were just so amazingly timed, and I'm so excited that you were able to spare some time for us. So before we move into your journey and becoming a community catalyst and running Rev Think and Forum and becoming an industry leader, I would love to know a little bit more about your your journey prior to that.

00:03:32:03 - 00:04:01:15
Unknown
How is it that you found the thing that you loved and what eventually inspired you to become a community leader? Well, I mean, I'm going to say it's the foundations. Go back to my childhood. And that was I was enormously blessed with two parents who told me from a very, very young age, they just always told me, don't do what you love and the money will follow.

00:04:01:17 - 00:04:30:07
Unknown
So this was very much to me like a permission slip called Joel. You get to follow your joy and your bliss. And that led me at a very early age. I would say to not only be creative, an entrepreneur, but I spent about 2 or 3 years working in, I guess, as a freelance animator right after college, and I very quickly said, I'm going to start my own studio.

00:04:30:09 - 00:05:14:03
Unknown
Naively, boldly. I don't know which you would call it, but we're talking in the early 90s here. So in 94, I started this company impossible Pictures, which had a 20 year run, and that journey of running that studio for 20 years and growing it to a team of 25 amazing creatives and producers, and working with hundreds of crew and freelancers around the world and everything gave me, obviously, the experience of what is it like to, you know, create your own creative career and chart your own path and figure this out and follow what you love, but also somehow make a living doing it.

00:05:14:05 - 00:05:38:12
Unknown
And then after exiting, impossible. I said, how can I? How can I help all the people I love do what I just did? And that meant I want to come alongside my friends who own and operate studios and production companies and similar creative companies and help them thrive. Teach them everything that I learned on that 20 year journey.

00:05:38:12 - 00:06:12:09
Unknown
So I've spent the past decade doing just that. I wake up every day as this guy that is obsessed with how can I help as many people running these businesses figure it out and succeed, especially on the business side? I love that that was one of the, I actually checked into forum that introduction video. That was one of the points that struck me, is that you you specifically said like, this is the thing that I'm passionate about waking up to and, and participating in every day.

00:06:12:11 - 00:06:35:12
Unknown
And that definitely is a struggle that I feel like we as creatives run into, like we have such a passion, but then we overwhelm ourselves with the business aspect of things. We don't have any structure like we start to move into this cycle of of our joy becoming lesser and lesser, and that that really kills our passion. And when our passion is killed, our profitability is affected as well.

00:06:35:14 - 00:06:57:14
Unknown
So before we move into the just incredible impact that you've made as a leader at founder and as a community catalyst, can we talk about perhaps some of the greatest struggles that you faced during that 20 year journey? Because you know that that process, with all of the support in the world is still not easy? Oh for sure.

00:06:57:15 - 00:07:28:03
Unknown
Yeah, the struggles are numerous and the struggles are very real. I would start off by maybe saying this. Like most people that start a creative business, we have no training, no experience, no schooling in business, we start a business and we start to kind of patchwork and try and navigate this thing. And what I like to say is there's no roadmap, but all these companies are started by creatives.

00:07:28:03 - 00:07:48:17
Unknown
Why? Because we're following something that we love. We have this dream of, I think I could do this work and somehow make a living at it, and business is the means to an end. For me. The struggles were things like how do I start a business? How do I get this started? Of course, how do you find clients?

00:07:48:19 - 00:08:13:14
Unknown
How do I charge? How do I figure out the banking and manage contracts and do deals? And how do I hire people? How do I do payroll? I mean, I'm just going down the list here. And what I'll say is this in my first seven years, the story is not glamorous at all. Although I did really cool projects.

00:08:13:16 - 00:08:40:16
Unknown
I landed a project with Disney, Walt Disney Television Animation for a beauty and the beast sequel. I did the opening title sequence for that. It sounds very glamorous, right? Did the opening title sequence for Balto two, the sequel that was from Universal Studios? Did, high end projects. Nonetheless, in those first seven years, I really struggled because I was overworked.

00:08:40:18 - 00:09:13:22
Unknown
I was burned out. I didn't really have a lock on how to run a business, and trying to wear all those hats was heading me over a burnout cliff big time. And it was around year seven when I started to do a lot of listening, do a lot of learning. I got some entrepreneurial coaching, and this propelled me to start making some big changes in the way I was navigating my career and running my business.

00:09:13:23 - 00:09:50:09
Unknown
And around that time, I brought on a partner and we moved the studio into downtown Denver. I could tell you other pieces and parts of the story, but basically those were the the big struggles that I faced. And then after making some of these changes in year seven was when things got a lot better, shall we say, like, that's really when the impossible pictures that people know today, when they look at the body of work and all the people that were part of that team, they're looking at the after year seven, if you will know, I love that.

00:09:50:09 - 00:10:14:07
Unknown
And so what did that do for your joy? Because everything that you mentioned, those are struggles that I see creatives encountered daily. They're things that I struggle with daily, is that when you get into the back end of a business and you pull the curtain back, there are so many unexpected layers. And to take them all on, even to a point that you just understand them is just soul crushing.

00:10:14:11 - 00:10:39:12
Unknown
So after you were able to structure everything, after you were able to hire a partner and really start to pour your soul into the things that truly brought your your, brought you happiness. Like what type of impact did it have on you personally? And do you think that that had a direct correlation in and your growth and what you've become now for sure, yeah, for sure.

00:10:39:12 - 00:11:10:19
Unknown
I mean, the the journey that started to shift for me around year seven was one of leaning into experts, right? I started to work with consultants, I started getting some coaching, and one of the big lessons that I started to apply is something I now call focusing on your genius, which is right, figure out what your superpower is and delegate everything else.

00:11:10:19 - 00:11:38:05
Unknown
Now that's a very idealistic way of saying it. And there's all kinds of obstacles and friction, but just having that singular like, I am committed to this journey because if I'm not pursuing this thing that I love, the thing that brings me energy and joy and the thing that produces really big results in the world, if I'm not focused on that, I am going to be stuck.

00:11:38:07 - 00:12:01:02
Unknown
I call it majoring in the minors. Yeah, I'm just going to be stuck and I can pretend I can write. I can be here late at night doing all the bookkeeping myself, or I can snap out of it and start actually building the team and the resources and the people around me who have those areas as their genius.

00:12:01:04 - 00:12:29:13
Unknown
And again, there's other pieces and parts to this, because running a business, there's so many facets. But that was a very, very fundamental part of my journey into the longer I go into the longer term. Part of your question, what we know is in a career, if you don't love it, you're not going to last. Yes, like it's just time.

00:12:29:13 - 00:12:57:18
Unknown
Like, you know, the old expression, when's the best time to plant a tree? It was 100 years ago, but the next best time is today. It's the same thing with a creative career. Like, stop playing small, get serious. Get really focused on those things that are your superpower, your genius, as I call it, and start today. So for me, this was this ongoing commitment and it was not easy.

00:12:57:18 - 00:13:21:08
Unknown
Please do not anyone hear this and say, oh, that sounds all Pollyanna and like I'm just preaching rainbows and unicorns. No, it was incredible. Still stressful, still crazy. But it was also thrilling and very satisfying. And I'm still on that journey. That's I think what's interesting. So that might that might feed into your next question. Yeah, it definitely does.

00:13:21:08 - 00:13:55:02
Unknown
That is a perfect segue, I think, for us to move into the value of community, because as creatives, one, we're inherently a little isolated. We have our passion, we have our style, we have our interests, and it's just almost like a comfortable thing for us to be in our zone and to, you know, kind of isolate ourselves. But when you do get involved specifically in the right communities and supportive communities, with people that are aligned with your values and moving towards the same goal, it's such a powerful thing.

00:13:55:02 - 00:14:31:00
Unknown
So in in your experience, how does the power of community contribute to both your creative freedom and growth and, you know, financial independence? I mean, let me count the ways, you know, because so this journey I described of this first seven years, the second chapter, we will call it the the, the following 13 years. One other component that was so pivotal in this journey was around year eight.

00:14:31:01 - 00:15:07:16
Unknown
I said, well, I'll be honest, I met a really good friend. His name is Mitch Monson. He's a legend in the industry. We're still great friends to this day, but through that friend and through some other, encouragements, I began to connect with my competitors. Okay. And I'm using that word very specifically because I want people to understand I get it, it sounds a little weird because back then the idea of, oh, Joel, when you go to New York, you should reach out to that studio founder, you should meet with her.

00:15:07:16 - 00:15:35:09
Unknown
She runs that production company. And I thought, why would they want to meet me? I'm a competitor. And what I learned was, these people have we have so much more to gain by connecting with each other. And when I would push past that, that awkward sort of unfamiliar, I don't know if that person is going to accept me, like me.

00:15:35:11 - 00:16:01:19
Unknown
Have a coffee with me. I found over and over and over, like we're talking 99% of the time that I reach out, I'll call it when I reached out to a rival. I'm not even going to say competitor, because what you discover is competition is mostly a myth. It's mostly a myth. Okay. Instead there is this thing called community.

00:16:01:19 - 00:16:39:13
Unknown
Do you want to step into it or not? It's there. It's waiting for you. If you think of your competitors rather as rivals, you realize, ooh, we're both in the same game. We're both trying to accomplish the same thing. We both have the same struggles, and this became the most awesome source of ideas, inspiration, knowledge. It was like pressing the accelerator on my career because as I started to make these friends, I would go to New York and they would all like, yeah, let's hang out, let's talk, let's have dinner.

00:16:39:14 - 00:16:58:23
Unknown
And they would share all their secrets and I would share all mine. And you know what? Once in a blue moon. Sure. Like you mentioned Christo, I was on his podcast. Chris and I became friends. He was running blind. I was running impossible. Did we compete? I think twice. And by the way, he beat me both times. That bastard.

00:16:59:01 - 00:17:31:02
Unknown
But you know. But in a way, I admired and respected him for beating me. And it didn't dissuade me from hanging out with him. And this is just one example. And then I realized, well, as I go forward, how can I bring more of us together? How can I create even more of a sense of community? So when I would go out and go, maybe speak at a conference, I would realize that meeting all the other speakers that were my rivals at the conference was so incredible.

00:17:31:04 - 00:18:02:12
Unknown
I would learn so much, and it was like this source again of inspiration, of knowledge, of connections and things that really moved me forward. And I think it also it was an antidote to this loneliness of being an owner is a lonely road, even if you have a business partner. I'm just telling you, it's a lonely road and finding community and people who get together with you and they will laugh with you, they will cry with you.

00:18:02:14 - 00:18:27:01
Unknown
They will share, right? Their their deepest, darkest struggles with you is incredibly supportive and meaningful. I love that. Thank you for sharing. I know that those are those are the moments that we need to put on display a little bit more, because we live in a digital world where it's literally the success or the after effect or the end of the journey that's put on display.

00:18:27:01 - 00:19:02:11
Unknown
And it has such a negative impact for people who are in the midst of their journey or who are searching for that and don't know how and it definitely can bring the self-esteem down. And so can you speak a little bit to the change that led you to create forum moving out of Rev? Think out of everything that you were doing before and and especially it being for founders, because that's something that, I think is becoming increasingly valuable is that we have all of these community catalyst founders, leaders who are giving all of their selves to their communities daily.

00:19:02:11 - 00:19:27:13
Unknown
It's like, where do they go to receive support and to recharge? And it seems like that's something that you you noticed as well and then took action to make sure that those people were supported and accepted and recognized for the hard work that they're putting in. Yeah. So, on the in these this decade, we'll say since I exited impossible and I and I committed to helping my people.

00:19:27:15 - 00:19:52:22
Unknown
And again, these are founders, leaders of creative businesses. Very much part of what I said was, well, first of all, I want to share my perspective. So I'm going to do a podcast. I started hosting dinner parties, for lack of a better term, so that when I would go into cities, I would bring owners together and we would have these really special, dinner events.

00:19:53:00 - 00:20:15:11
Unknown
And I also during Covid especially, I said, I think I need to start some sort of a platform where business owners can come together and we can connect, we can share, we can post, we can comment, we can, you know, come together for courses and classes and trainings and these kinds of things. And that's what I did, while I was doing that, of course, I'm traveling.

00:20:15:13 - 00:20:45:00
Unknown
I'm working with individual business owners, one on one. Right. This is part of how I, how I make a living. And, just earlier this year, I realized it was time for me to really recommit to this focus of what I call for founders before founders. Okay, so a lot of the things I was doing previously had had, well, let's just say had gotten sort of complicated and noisy.

00:20:45:00 - 00:21:15:12
Unknown
And I said, I really want to come back to this, creating a community of only founders, because I want it to be less of a I'm the smart guy here dispensing wisdom and knowledge, and rather, how can we as a community of founders create something together? So this was what led me to build and launch forum, which is this, private founder community of the world's leading independent studios.

00:21:15:14 - 00:21:43:00
Unknown
And right from day one, I reached out to about nine people that I respect and admire and said, would you help me by being on council? Let's actually make this a grassroots. We are building this together because it's not the Joel Show, it's not the Joel, it's the all wise, all knowing Reverend. No, I am one of you, and I am one of you, and you're one of me.

00:21:43:00 - 00:22:13:07
Unknown
And we're in this together. And that happened in April of this year. So in just what does that been now, the 6 or 7 months following that community now has a little over 300 founders within it from arguably the leading studios and production companies music, sound, design, experiential, etc. and we have a weekly roundtable where we come together every week to meet and talk about an issue, meet an expert that sort of a thing.

00:22:13:09 - 00:22:37:07
Unknown
I'm running several courses at any one time within that community to help and push and teach, and there's all kinds of other activities going on in there, but it's been really tremendous. I've gotten some amazing feedback from the founders who, like you were just saying before, like, this is a really important resource that I need for me to feel connected and to help me run my business.

00:22:37:09 - 00:23:09:01
Unknown
And so you're doing all of that, and it seems like, I mean, there's just a long list of, of things that you're doing. So how has this adjustment, how do you keep from burning out when you're doing all of this? Is it truly community? Is it structure or is it your passion? Because it's it's like we just had to talk about doing the thing that you love and reducing, but you're showing us that this is really what the power of joy and happiness and community support can, can lend to, as far as progress is concerned.

00:23:09:03 - 00:23:36:17
Unknown
Yeah, I have to say, it's if anything, I have to be careful and not work all the time. Okay, so I it was funny because just two weeks ago, I was sitting in my apartment and I was working on something late at night and I thought, what am I doing? It's 10:00 at night, why am I working? And then the next thought I had was, man, I am so freaking blessed.

00:23:36:19 - 00:24:00:22
Unknown
Like I am so lucky. I was like, God, thank you that I get to do this thing. But I love it. I just enjoy it because what I'm doing right now taps into so many of the things that excite me, that thrill me, that keep me inspired. So in short, I guess I would just ask, you know, I would just ask you different.

00:24:00:22 - 00:24:28:13
Unknown
Like if you were able to do the things that you love to do all the time, would that be a bad thing? And I I'm guessing the answer is no. And that's that's how I feel. That's kind of where that's kind of where I'm living. So I'm incredibly fortunate. I mean, I feel like that is every creative's goal and it, you know, it's something that's reiterated all the time is to, to be profitable while doing the thing that you're most passionate about.

00:24:28:15 - 00:24:54:04
Unknown
But there is such a huge gap between that profitability, all of the business aspects that go into it and and doing the thing that you love. So maybe we can switch over into the branding and strategy side of things, because that really is what drew me to you. Your systems are so sophisticated hearted. As someone who is kind of OCD about everything, I love seeing these funnel systems that you know it.

00:24:54:05 - 00:25:14:15
Unknown
It takes a minute to get them up and going, but afterwards you know that it works. And, you know, I've in my research, I have seen so many acronyms from you, so many systems from, you know, dollars, decision makers and deadline to like this is how you create a well-oiled machine that's running and that like the value of that cannot be understated.

00:25:14:15 - 00:25:47:03
Unknown
So would you be willing to share maybe some secret insights that you have, or advice for creatives who are making the decisions to be founders? But maybe first can we start with your opinion on a very honest subject, which is does every creative need to be a founder? Well, you know, there we live in a world where everyone wants to run their own business, but some people, it's not that you're not cut out for it, but it's that you're destroying your true happiness if you take that route.

00:25:47:03 - 00:26:13:05
Unknown
So what? What are your feelings about that? I'm glad you brought that up, because as someone who's always been a founder, it's easy for me to project onto everyone in the world and say, everybody should do this, right, everybody should be a founder, and there is a certain type of personality, maybe upbringing, other things that will tend to predispose you to be successful or not.

00:26:13:05 - 00:26:34:06
Unknown
And I will say it's not for everyone. So to the creative who says, I want to have independence and pick the kind of projects I want and do the, you know, kind of work I want to do for the kind of clients that I want to do it for. And I am a crafts person, and I want to become better and better and better at this craft.

00:26:34:06 - 00:26:57:18
Unknown
I would say probably not. Okay, because I when I talk to founders over and over again, I'm thinking of Erin Swarovski, who's absolutely amazing. And the way she puts it is, well, it's easy. Do you have clients? Do you enjoy sales? Because if the answer to those questions is no, then no. Don't start a business. I mean, running a business will consume you.

00:26:57:18 - 00:27:35:19
Unknown
It will become more of the job than the work, meaning you will ultimately someday be putting more time into working on your business than in your business. So if you don't love that journey, I would. I would caution you and my my other thought was just simply that it's it's a different economy that as a founder and when you're running a business, you move out of the time and effort economy and into what I call the risk reward economy.

00:27:35:21 - 00:28:03:08
Unknown
In the time and effort economy, you work hard and you get paid for your time. Get ready to leave that world behind, because in the risk reward economy, you work your ass off and sometimes you get nothing. Sometimes you work your ass off or you don't even work hard at all and you get a windfall. But you might make $50,000 this month and lose 50 the next.

00:28:03:10 - 00:28:40:15
Unknown
And that is a absolutely different mindset that you have to slowly learn and embrace and thrive in. So if you're the sort of person who loves, you know, stability and predictability and certainty and those kinds of things, it's not going to be your happy place. Yeah, it is definitely, definitely a journey. Okay, so for those of us who are accepting the the role of founders and want to move into that, who are still in the creative space but not where we need to be.

00:28:40:17 - 00:29:10:01
Unknown
What are your maybe top 2 or 3 suggestions to help us move to that next level? Or perhaps even, you know, your top 2 or 3 questions that we should be asking ourselves? Well, I'm gonna try and narrow it down because I can I could probably think of 100 things, but when I think of somebody that is early on this journey who is just starting, like perhaps you're the freelancer who said, okay, I'm now I'm now going to operate under a name.

00:29:10:03 - 00:29:34:15
Unknown
Okay, I'm now going to be a studio or a shop, right? Or an agency or something like that. First of all, my encouragement would be one recognize the shift that you're making, because when you operate under a business name like a studio, you are now making a promise. And this promise is called if I hire Devin in the freelancer and he gets Covid, I get it.

00:29:34:15 - 00:30:09:16
Unknown
He's down for two weeks. But if I hire Devin, the studio, that doesn't fail ever. No matter what, no excuses, no how, no way. And for that guarantee of performance, I'm willing to pay a big premium. So just recognize the difference between a freelancer and the studio is the studio makes a promise that it will always deliver and never fail, and it will also take you through a process and experience and deliver.

00:30:09:18 - 00:30:39:04
Unknown
The other thing I would encourage people to think about is number two is do not charge for your time. Don't don't. And this is such a hard lesson to work your way out of. I want to elaborate here. There's great places you can go and research. Christo is going to tell you about this. Jonathan Stark is probably my favorite person who talks about taking the billable hour out back and shooting it, you know, putting it out of its misery.

00:30:39:06 - 00:31:04:05
Unknown
Do not charge for your time. Charge for the project, charge for the deliverable. Charge for the value of what you do. It's a totally different mindset. Number three, I would say, is recognize that part of what I'm describing here is I would describe this as your overall embarking on a journey that I call the journey from order taker to expert.

00:31:04:07 - 00:31:33:10
Unknown
And get this right. We grew up as children and we are schooled and taught to stay in line and follow the rules. And then we go to university and we get jobs where we have to fill out resumes and applications, and we play by certain rules. We're following orders and we get rewarded for that, and we get trained into thinking that's what success is, is playing that game and following the rules.

00:31:33:12 - 00:32:03:12
Unknown
But the mind shift is that when you are running a creative business, that is not where your value lies. Your value lies in years and years of experience and wisdom to where you are going to be the expert. It's like you're becoming the doctor. So when people come to you, you're having instead of just taking orders and fulfilling orders and getting paid, you're listening for deeper problems.

00:32:03:14 - 00:32:44:00
Unknown
You are diagnosing, you are prescribing, you are leading that conversation. You are leading that. And that is far more valuable to those types of premium buyers, the people who have great big problems and big budgets and these kinds of things. But I would say the sooner that you can understand and appreciate this journey that you are embarking upon, it will serve you well because it's an exciting place to get to a point in your career where people respect you, you stand out as different and unique, and you have an expertise that is enormously valuable and people come seek you out for it.

00:32:44:00 - 00:33:04:01
Unknown
And guess what? They don't give you orders. They come to you with a problem and you say, let me diagnose this and then I will prescribe you a solution, and then we will go create this amazing thing together. And by the way, I'm very expensive and I'm very busy. But if we're the right fit, of course we should work together.

00:33:04:05 - 00:33:26:05
Unknown
That is a really exciting way to do life as a creative. Yeah, that was one of the things that I really just appreciated so much. And in the podcast episodes that I saw you featured on and some of your writing that don't charge a project based on your time investment, but also don't forget to charge for your time.

00:33:26:05 - 00:33:58:14
Unknown
There is no free research phase. There is no free pitch. Instead, there's a paid discovery phase. It's almost like you are taking on the client regardless of what they say, and then moving forward and positioning yourself in such a strong way that, like, the most reasonable option is for them to move forward with you. So those are definitely things that we do have to take into consideration, because we spend so much time on pitches, on research, on phone calls, and you know that it's a mistake that I made early on in my creative journey.

00:33:58:14 - 00:34:27:22
Unknown
I never charge for any of those things. And then, you know, you look back and there's 10 or 15 hours of your time that's been eaten up and you've not gotten anything from it. So you're definitely understanding the value of of the self is is so powerful. So I would love to maybe continue this conversation in in how specifically you have developed your website, how forum helps brand leaders reach that next level?

00:34:28:00 - 00:35:07:18
Unknown
The, you know, support that you have built in there and kind of the the gap that you're looking to fill for founders and creatives who, you know, are longing for that sense of not just community, but respect and support. So it fulfills community first and foremost. But then I would say, in addition to that forum is where I am building the roadmap, meaning what is the actual journey that I can take my business through that's going to get it from A to B, right?

00:35:07:20 - 00:35:35:00
Unknown
Because maybe I want to grow. Maybe I want to greatly improve the quality of the work that I'm producing. Right? Maybe I want to attract and nurture a team, all these sorts of things. Right. This is part of business. So principally what we do is there's a community where there's various discussions happening on various topics where founders can share and comment and help each other answer those questions.

00:35:35:02 - 00:36:03:08
Unknown
I also, do a weekly roundtable, so I'm going to bring in an expert. Maybe it's a sales rep, maybe it's an accountant. Okay. I mean, it just it's maybe it's, an an entertainment attorney. Maybe it's just another founder who is like, this week I'm having one of my members come in and share how he rebranded his studio and what the experience has been like, and why it's been important and valuable.

00:36:03:10 - 00:36:25:17
Unknown
So we're sharing all that kind of stuff, live in real time with each other weekly. Then what I do is once a quarter, I will take a group of people who are willing to sign up for this proverbial drinking from the firehose that I call an accelerator. And that's like a class where for 6 or 12 weeks, we will.

00:36:25:17 - 00:36:59:07
Unknown
For example, last quarter we went through a course I call sales keeping. Sales keeping is what are the habits and the mindsets that top salespeople know in our creative business? What does it really take to consistently generate sales for the creative business and escape the feast or famine cycle? That was one course. We went through it and that resource is now available to anybody in the community who wants to sign up for that.

00:36:59:09 - 00:37:20:22
Unknown
And this quarter, I'm taking everybody through a course called Flight Deck, which is a set of tools that are going to teach you how to create a budget for your company, how to figure out your costs and your rates. It's going to teach you how to build a budget for every project you ever do to create a dashboard so you can.

00:37:21:00 - 00:37:42:23
Unknown
You and your team can monitor project health, and then look at your cash, see all the money coming in and going out of your company. And this suite of tools, I've seen it be so powerful because as creatives, we hate numbers. We hate spreadsheets. Something. Guess what? I'm right there with you. I'm right there with you. I hate all that crap.

00:37:43:00 - 00:38:04:13
Unknown
But if I can make it easy and simple enough for everyone, that's what we're going to do this quarter and everyone is going to build it together. So it is not a oh, download this thing. And here's it's like, no, no, we're going to build this together. Here's the template. You fill it out and then we will connect all the pieces and parts over the next six weeks though.

00:38:04:14 - 00:38:25:04
Unknown
So between now and the end of the year that's our course. So hopefully that's giving you a sense of what I'm building, because I really do envision over the next year or two, it's like I'm going to I think I'm going to build the roadmap called, okay, I have this business. It's like a it's like a plane. I want to get it in this thing.

00:38:25:04 - 00:38:46:09
Unknown
But how do I actually fly it? How do I get it off the ground? How do I chart where I want to go? And then as I'm on this journey, how am I reading the dashboard and the instruments to navigate this journey and get there successfully? And there's all these pieces and parts that will come together and form this thing that we call a business.

00:38:46:10 - 00:39:20:22
Unknown
I love that that's so powerful, and that's such an appropriate, appropriate example for people to follow. Getting the plane off the ground and then being able to fly to your destinations successfully. How do you think the the future of community is going to be impacted? Your community, all communities, or the value of human connection as we start to move into this, just this age of AI that is moving at such an unprecedented rate, it is, you know, as someone who hopped into AI early, it was so nice to spill all of my creative ideas.

00:39:20:22 - 00:39:57:08
Unknown
It's so nice. It is a learning resource, but it also is a very isolating thing. And in the worst way, because it can make you feel so good about yourself and so conversational. So what do you think that. Yeah, the value of just connection is moving forward. And what do you think future communities look like? I'll say this I think one of the most powerful things about community is it there's something that happened in my career that what was this about year three or 4 or 5?

00:39:57:10 - 00:40:28:23
Unknown
I met the business owner who was running the business that I wanted to run. Does that make sense? Yeah, it was this guy that was running this killer studio called Atomic Pictures in San Antonio, and I was freelancing for him. And what I saw was, oh, here's a snapshot of the kind of business I want to run. It was like, this person was the model that I knew I could now emulate and be successful.

00:40:29:01 - 00:40:57:21
Unknown
And a lot of this is what happens inside the community. Specifically to your question is people are wondering, what do we do about AI? Is it a threat? Is it a tool? Well, guess what, the best way to get those answers is to see what 100 other people are doing. They're running businesses like yours. And I can tell you there are a few founders in my community I'm thinking of, like Justin Barnes from versus, who runs that amazing studio here in Manhattan.

00:40:57:23 - 00:41:28:15
Unknown
He was just on the stage at Adobe Max talking about how they are using AI in real world production. Well guess what? You get to hang out with somebody like that. They're going to give you the ideas and the inspiration to either prove you right or prove you wrong. And this feedback loop is so valuable when otherwise all we're doing is we're stuck in our own heads, inside of our own little bubble, looking at our screens and trying to find the answers.

00:41:28:17 - 00:41:56:03
Unknown
When you can actually connect with a fellow founder who says, I tried it, it doesn't work, but I did this instead. And it's been amazing. Wow. That is I mean, that's how you throw gas on somebody. Fire is it's like a shortcut. It's it's a, you know, don't spend years wandering, looking for the ideas and the information and the knowledge.

00:41:56:03 - 00:42:24:09
Unknown
Just go right to the right to the source. Because, again, overwhelmingly, these people are happy to share and open up and talk about their experience. I love that it's just and it's such an important reminder for us in today's world that going to the source is not going to their online account and absorbing one moment from an experience and taking that at face value, it is truly.

00:42:24:11 - 00:42:45:16
Unknown
We had a guest earlier on Eric Hyman, who referred to it as getting back to the party, as immersing ourselves in the world, being open to a balanced perspective and an accepting reality based on a true experience, instead of just all of these short clips that are being thrown at us so well. I love this question from Heather.

00:42:45:19 - 00:43:06:16
Unknown
She was saying, can you speak to your experience? Yeah, I'm getting the Sundance Film Festival. It's actually a really good example because for years I've been saying, one of these days I should go to Sundance. But you know what? If you're like me, you look at those kinds of events and you say, I don't know, that's for movie stars.

00:43:06:16 - 00:43:26:06
Unknown
And, you know, Robert Redford and all these types hang out. I don't know, I don't know. All right. This is fear. This is fear kind of creeping up in us. But year before last, I had a client who reached out to me and said, hey, this, you know, project we did, it's going to be premiering at Sundance. Do you want to come with us?

00:43:26:06 - 00:43:55:03
Unknown
And I said, this is my excuse. I'll go now. I go to Sundance, and my experience is very much consistent with what we've been talking about here today. Because, you know, what I experienced? What I experienced is one giant badass community of people who are all trying to figure this crap out, and they were open and receptive. I'm going to this mixer.

00:43:55:03 - 00:44:24:22
Unknown
I did that happy hour, go to that social thing. I go to this premiere, and everybody I bump into, I'm realizing we're all on the same freaking journey. Sure, there are several steps ahead of me. They're several steps behind me, but we're all on the same journey. And the other big takeaway from that experience is you drop into a place like Sundance, and I swear you're going to have a similar experience.

00:44:24:23 - 00:44:49:11
Unknown
And that is I realized, you know what? This ecosystem is open to all, because when I went there, I said, hey, are any of my people here? Right. Went into my community, went on LinkedIn, and lo and behold, 20 something people say, yeah, I'm here at Sundance, I'm here at Sundance. So I organized a brunch. We all got together.

00:44:49:13 - 00:45:11:05
Unknown
And you know what I realized from everybody that was at that table? They're just like you. They're just like me. They just said, I'm going to go. I'm going to pitch. I'm going to present. I'm going to meet. I'm going to try and sell. I'm going, I'm working on my film. And there's this incredibly liberating moment when you realize it's all just waiting there for you.

00:45:11:07 - 00:45:49:02
Unknown
You just have to get out from behind your freaking screen, get out into the world and hang out with other cool people, and you're going to be blown away with what happens when you connect with the community of your peers. And that is that is so powerful, like I, those are words that I specifically needed to hear. I know that there are people in this chat and people that are going to hear this video that need to hear it as well, but it is that's one of the dangers of being a digital creative, is that behind the screen becomes our lived experience, and it starts to reshape our realities and the world around us.

00:45:49:02 - 00:46:10:05
Unknown
So yeah, we're definitely going to have to work on, working on going outside a little bit more over. Well, I'll, let me call out a myth that I think many of us have fallen prey to. And that is, it's it's it's a very deceptive or alluring myth. And the myth says you can work anywhere. You can work from anywhere.

00:46:10:07 - 00:46:44:12
Unknown
Because I'm thinking of animators I know that are up in Saskatchewan, right or right, or editors that are based in, in Eastern Europe. Okay, or something like that. And what we as creatives will say is, hey, nowadays you can work from anywhere. And guess what? That's absolutely true. But if you look at the people who are actually thriving and breaking into new markets and doing the new things and really innovating, they do not live there persistently.

00:46:44:14 - 00:47:25:00
Unknown
They get out, they get it out into the world. They travel, they connect. They immerse themselves in the real lives, in the real cultures of other people. And sure, when they get the work, they go back home and they do the work behind their screen, out in the middle of the wilderness. But I will tell you this, I do not ever meet people that are at the top of their game in any industry, who are hermits, who are recluses, that just are just so great at the work that they can just sit at home behind their screen and do their thing.

00:47:25:02 - 00:47:47:07
Unknown
So that's just been my experience. But I would say, caution yourself that if you ever say, oh, you can do, you know, you can work from anywhere nowadays, I would say yes, but you have to get out and go. You have to meet, you have to connect and if you don't, you're holding yourself back and the world is waiting for you like the world wants to meet you.

00:47:47:07 - 00:48:16:14
Unknown
Get out here. Come on, let's go. Oh, that was such a is such a beautiful invite. And so true. Yes. Like you will never know your true value, your true worth, until you put it out there and are are accepting to what comes from it. So did you see this question here follow up. That said, do you think podcasts we're getting out and and I'm, I mean, as much as I want to say yes I'm going to say no.

00:48:16:20 - 00:48:44:11
Unknown
Okay. And here's why is I was having dinner with a really high level executive from Showtime Networks a few weeks ago here in New York, and he was saying, you know what? The people that I work with at this level, meaning I hire studios and production companies that are doing six figure design and show package and titles and all these other kinds of things, he said.

00:48:44:13 - 00:49:07:07
Unknown
I get hit up all the time in all these different ways, but when I sit down with another founder or a principal and we have a beer and we're sort of like in it together in the trenches, he said, there's a level of trust that happens in that moment that does not ever happen on a zoom. It does not ever happen on a podcast.

00:49:07:09 - 00:49:30:06
Unknown
So this is where I love these mediums. The way we're communicating like this right now, it's fantastic, right? I wish I had this when I was a kid. It's here. I love it, but is it enough? Is it everything? No, because I always say this if you want different results, you have to do different things. So just think that way.

00:49:30:06 - 00:50:05:00
Unknown
Like, how can I write if I want something different to happen? What's what's the different thing that I have to do hundred percent? And again, that just reiterates the value of community. Because if you're in a community of people who are willing to take risks and who are willing to be honest about how it turned out well or how it did not turn out well, that is that is such a beautiful example to kind of defeat the imposter syndrome, the fear and just realize it's it's a human experience and it's not a it's no testament to our value or to us.

00:50:05:00 - 00:50:29:02
Unknown
It's literally just us trying our best. So that is that is amazing. I want to be conscious of our time here. We've got about ten minutes left, so we will open up the question and answer session to our audience. If you have any questions for Joel, please drop them in the chat. And while they are typing. Joel, we always like to give our guests the opportunity to do a shameless self promo.

00:50:29:02 - 00:50:52:20
Unknown
So, you know, where can we reach you? Where can we connect with you? What is, you know, most valuable for us to, to return the support to you? And then if you have any influences or people that you want to shout out, I know that you've mentioned some amazing people throughout the conversation will make sure that they are featured, but do you have anyone else that you want to, to say thank you to or lead us to?

00:50:52:20 - 00:51:26:14
Unknown
Now is the chance, well thank you. You can find out you know more about me at simply. My name, Joel Pilcher. Dot com. Probably the best place to stay up with kind of what I'm doing and what's happening in my world is on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there. I also host a podcast called The Fabulist that you mentioned earlier, and I do host this dinner series called fuze, which, happens maybe once or twice a quarter in these various creative capitals around the world.

00:51:26:16 - 00:51:57:14
Unknown
Those are invitation only, but sometimes we have a seat or two that's open, and we're happy to bring in, a new face if if you're a good fit for that experience. In terms of shout outs, man, there's so many. I mean, there's so many founders. I guess I would first give a shout out to everyone that's on council inside of forum as a community, because those nine principles are people who have supported me and are continuing to give back to make our community strong.

00:51:57:15 - 00:52:16:04
Unknown
I won't go through all nine nine of those names. You can find out more about them if you go to go to my website. And then I would also just. Yeah, say thank you to all the collaborators and all of my friends that, you know, this industry that we're in as creatives. It's, it's it is a relationship business.

00:52:16:05 - 00:52:49:06
Unknown
And it's funny how we are all going to eventually work with everybody at some point, somehow, someway. And I've just been consistently impressed throughout my career that the higher you go and the more experience you get working with people, that people are generally kind and helpful and open and willing. So it's been just tremendous for me. I've, I feel like I've, you know, my career has been on the shoulders of so many others before me.

00:52:49:06 - 00:53:13:05
Unknown
But yeah, I'm just very grateful. Yeah. No. That's beautiful. And that that's the process, right? Others uplift us and then we give that back in return. That's definitely there. That should be so. That's right. That is beautiful. And we're making sure to tag all of those outbound links in the comments so that we can definitely follow up on those, not seeing any questions come in from our audience.

00:53:13:05 - 00:53:34:17
Unknown
And I'm guessing that's because I asked most of the ones that were in the were in their minds. So, we will for the last few minutes, invite everyone to turn on their cameras to speak to you personally if they have anything to say. And also, I just like to personally say thank you so much, Joel. Like, this has been such a beautiful conversation.

00:53:34:17 - 00:54:06:10
Unknown
And I mean, even this is a this conversation is a testament to risk taking because, you know, I that was my first introduction to seeing you on this podcast and then looking at everything that you've built, your assets. I definitely thought that you would be a very unreachable person or someone that I was going to struggle with to, to have on here, but you have been so kind and so considerate and, you know, the the impact that not just you, but all of our guests this year have had as been just so meaningful.

00:54:06:10 - 00:54:32:22
Unknown
So yeah. So yeah, I'm going to ask you to unmute your mic. If you'd like to say anything, feel free. I yeah, I like to say I found Joe by watching Christo. I've been immersed with his stuff for over a year, and as being a on the other side of the fence, of being like a multimedia designer director who actually is a creative with technical knowledge, who helps agencies with their pipelines and works with designers and creative directors of bringing those ideas to life.

00:54:33:02 - 00:54:56:14
Unknown
But I know my weakness is not sales lead generation. I've been. I find myself now not doing any of the work, which I missed, by the way. But I also I since I recognized that weakness might I might go actually like how do you team up with people who, like, are on the other side of the fence, who are in the generation who have those connections?

00:54:56:16 - 00:55:12:17
Unknown
For years I've been working with agency, so I've always been behind the scenes doing all the work. But I don't have the I'm not out there speak to the client. Or if I did speak to the client, it was an in meeting because the lead generation creative director and a marketing person brought them in a door, and I need a solution based off of a budget.

00:55:12:17 - 00:55:36:13
Unknown
So yeah, I find that's where my struggle is. Being a creative engineer. Yeah, I, I, I can relate and thanks for the question because it's a very common struggle that when a shop is small, right, when it's 1 or 2 people. Yeah. And really focus on doing the work. Right. We get into this feast or famine cycle because we win a project and then we get busy doing the work.

00:55:36:13 - 00:56:04:12
Unknown
And then as the work comes to an end, we say, oh my God, we don't have we haven't been doing sales. Where's the next project in this? Can be really difficult. So our next thought is, how do I find a sales person and man the the bad news is the cavalry isn't coming. Like there's just no such thing as I'm going to go hire a sales person or a lead gen person who's going to solve that for me.

00:56:04:14 - 00:56:37:14
Unknown
I won't go into all of the reasons why that is, but let me just say this that sales, like any other area of business, it's something that we have to master, at least in its most basic form, before we can delegate it. Okay, so until you understand what it takes, how it works, what you know, how how do I get the results I'm looking for called how do I bring in new business?

00:56:37:14 - 00:57:04:22
Unknown
How do I convert them? How do I do all these things right? Close projects. And when new business, until you understand that people will come to you and promise you, oh, I can do that, I can do that, and it will fail and it will fail and it will fail. Once you learn it, your BS filter goes sky high and you know someone is just selling you versus somebody who has the goods and who knows how to do it.

00:57:05:00 - 00:57:28:09
Unknown
So my encouragement would be this. It would be be ready. Like get ready. First of all, I want you to focus on your genius. So make sure you are doing that super power thing and you're really committed to it. Number two, raise your prices. Because when you raise your prices, what do you do? You might put that money in your pocket, but you're creating margin okay.

00:57:28:09 - 00:57:53:06
Unknown
And that margin is what you're going to need when you make the next step, which is you've grown your business, now you're ready to bring in some marketing support, some sort of sales support. But the third thing is you just got to get out there and you you have to learn this fundamental skill. If you are going to be running your own business.

00:57:53:08 - 00:58:18:10
Unknown
Right. Even freelancers will tell you, yeah, if I don't do sales right, the work dries up. So I think it's just part of the journey of running a business. It is. You have to you have to master sales to some level. If you don't, it's just going to hold you back. Yeah, I definitely agree with that because, you know, I have a I went to school for graphic design, not sales and marketing.

00:58:18:10 - 00:58:41:00
Unknown
So I have like this huge learning curve that I'm doing my best to try and navigate through this waters and my past. I'm very fortunate with agencies just because of the type of work I do. I've been referred to for by so many people, and now this market has changed in some dramatic way where that is now, there's no longer, of course, referrals is no longer sustainable.

00:58:41:00 - 00:59:00:09
Unknown
And I do know that services. Right. I know my weakness and I'm like a how can I like get my weaknesses. Like what I just spoke of, you know, is just how to, you know, might I see other companies who they they seem like they form like Voltron. I know, right. Minimum age thing there. But, you know, they come together and they actually have their captain of salesperson.

00:59:00:09 - 00:59:23:11
Unknown
They have somebody like myself who is like a motivated director who fits both, you know, creative director and creative execution person. So that's what I try to do. Let me give you one other little mindset shift that you might find helpful. And that is most creatives, when we hear the word sales, we start to think used car salesman.

00:59:23:11 - 00:59:48:23
Unknown
We think pushy, we think, oh, has a Rolodex of all these connections, you know, a mover shaker dealmaker. Yeah. And I want you to I want you to abolish that picture. And instead, I want to redefine sales as simply building relationships and sharing your expertise. That sales okay. So stop with all of the other whatever sales means okay.

00:59:49:01 - 01:00:13:10
Unknown
Because if I said to you, all you got to do is get out there and build relationships and share your expertise. I'm betting that's not your weakness. No. Because you've been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been you've been telling yourself, oh, this is my weakness. Because you've got a picture in your mind that says, oh, when I think of sales and lead gen, you're like, that's my weakness.

01:00:13:14 - 01:00:33:23
Unknown
And I'm like, you are not weak at building relationships, and you are not weak at sharing your expertise, so get after it. That makes sense. Thank you for that, then. You bet. Yeah. Appreciate it. All right, Paul, I see your camera is on. Did you have a question? Well, I mean, I mean, Sherman just basically told my story as well, so it was perfect.

01:00:34:01 - 01:00:57:03
Unknown
I mean, I left Agency Life in February with, with with a my first like, freelance gig as a creative director in experiential work. As soon as I left, it went away. And so I was left with, okay, now, like, now, I really have to start this stuff up. And it's been fits and spurts and it's been it's been a little bit of getting over myself for being, you know, in the agency and, and protected.

01:00:57:05 - 01:01:21:12
Unknown
And the work comes to you to a certain degree. But, but yeah, I think that, that, you know, that that pivot on the mindset of sales is perfect and is exactly what, I needed to hear. So thank you. Both of you. Yeah. You're so welcome. I will say this. I think we're all as creatives also on a journey to finding our voice and finding our confidence.

01:01:21:13 - 01:01:53:04
Unknown
And one way that we start to express that out in the world is getting out, connecting with people. But it's also getting out and sharing, whether it's on LinkedIn or whatever your thing is. Might be on a podcast like this, but as you find your voice and you find your confidence and you just start to show up with an opinion based on your expertise, people are going to connect with that, resonate with that, and eventually align with you and build a build a relationship with you.

01:01:53:04 - 01:02:24:06
Unknown
And it will lead to opportunities. It's a lifelong right journey that we're on here. But I think if you if you keep showing up, you keep building relationships, you keep sharing your expertise, you're going to build a following of people who say, hey, that stuff's meaningful to me. That stuff is also valuable and resonates with me. I sure would love to work with somebody like Paul when the time comes.

01:02:24:08 - 01:02:50:02
Unknown
And this is part of why we grow these extended communities that we call followers. But really, we're building a community. Right. All right. Well, listen, thank you all so much. Those are definitely important topics. And I think more so important as we move into the age of AI and just businesses shifting and redefining. And, you know, these things are incredibly scary.

01:02:50:02 - 01:03:18:01
Unknown
But they're also such good opportunities for driven and motivated people who are willing to learn, willing to ask the hard questions, and then willing to put in the hard work that comes from the answer. So yeah, we definitely love for everyone here to stick with us. For more conversations like this and for more professional guidance. Community support Joel has a wealth of experience, communities and outlets that are available for you.

01:03:18:01 - 01:03:45:13
Unknown
We'll make sure that those are listed in this episode description and in the recap, so that you all can connect with him at your convenience. So just wanted to say thank you, everyone to, thank you. Everyone who joined us. See some familiar faces, see some new faces. Next month you'll get to meet our team. December is reserved for each member of the developing life to share their story, and also to say thank you to our amazing guest all this season.

01:03:45:15 - 01:04:04:03
Unknown
So we hope you'll you'll tune in and stick with us. Joel, I want to say once more, just thank you for your wisdom, your expertise, and your kindness. It is greatly valued and it is making a difference. So look forward to hopefully connecting with you again in the near future. You know, thank you so much. Different things to the team.

01:04:04:03 - 01:04:17:03
Unknown
It's been a pleasure. Yeah of course everyone have a wonderful and powerful day and we will see you back here for our next conversation. Okay. Thank you. You too. Thank you. Hi, everyone. All right.