I Want My Mtv…and CDs and Concerts Back

Remember when you made mixtapes for your friends and every song was a reference and ode to your relationship? Or spending your entire check at Sam Goody? Eileen and special guest Chris Hajian are dusting off some of their most memorable music memories. This episode is one you won't wanna skip. 

Transcript

Eileen Kelly (00:01)
Welcome to strangers with kittens. I really hope you don't hear the jackhammers in the background because they're jackhammering my Street right now if you do I apologize It's life ⁓ Today I'm talking about music. I feel like music is such a big part of growing up gen X It was such a part of our lives in a way that I don't feel Was with any other generation

It was the dawn of MTV. was Columbia House and 12 CDs or cassettes for a penny. Concerts, Live Aid, Do They Know It's Christmas Time? All these pivotal Gen X moments that were wrapped up in music.

I feel like it defined us in so many ways, in movies, all of the

theme songs of the shows that we watched, know, Family Ties and ⁓ I still sing the theme song from Love, Sydney, which was a short-lived Tony Randall sitcom that many people won't remember, but there you go. It pops into my head and I sing it to myself fairly regularly. Music was just such an integral part of our lives. feel like streaming services and access to basically all the music.

in the world has actually had a detrimental effect on me and my music listening. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know. I guess it's overwhelm. When I have access to everything, I listen to nothing. I don't know what to tell Alexa to play. I don't know what to stream on my phone. I...

like listening to radio stations. I listen to WFUV 90.7, Fordham University station most of the time, or sometimes I can get in the Peak radio station, which I think is 107.1 out of Westchester, New York, I think.

I like DJs. I like not knowing what comes next. I mean, I loved making mixtapes, but those were special. And a lot of time and effort went into making a mixtape. And if you were making it for somebody else, there was all this meaning behind it. And having to make myself a mixtape every time I want to listen to music is a real drag in my opinion. And it takes...

the magic away from not knowing what's going to come next and being so happy when you hear it. mean, even a five CD disc changer on shuffle is better than a Spotify playlist, in my opinion. I don't know how we get back to that. I know CDs are a thing of the past and I don't even know where you would buy a CD.

a 5 cd disc player these days. ⁓ Mine just died eventually after decades of use and I threw it out. If it hadn't I wouldn't have but

I miss the days of the 5-CD disc changer and shuffle mode and our choice of a multitude of really good radio stations. Music was such a huge part of our lives and people introducing you to an artist or to a song was such a powerful connection and would sort of...

kick off a hinge moment in your life where suddenly now you were totally into alternative and then you went to this concert and you met these people and you traded bootlegs and you know, it's just different now and So I wanted to talk to Someone who is an expert in the field he is ⁓ a composer for films he

is a musician. He teaches at the Manhattan School of Music and at NYU. He's an incredibly talented, incredibly smart, really great person. And I'm so excited to have him here.

You should definitely check him out on Spotify and other streaming platforms.

Please welcome my friend, Chris Hajian

Eileen Kelly (04:22)
Good, how you doing? It's so good to see you.

Chris Hajian (04:22)
Hi, Eileen, how are you? Great.

I'm so happy to be here, a part of your podcast.

Eileen Kelly (04:29)
You look all cozy on this freezing December day.

Chris Hajian (04:31)
Yes,

even though I'm inside, I don't like to be cold, so I'm always bundled up.

Eileen Kelly (04:36)
Yeah, I've been outside, so yeah, it's good that you're bundled up. So I feel like, I mean, there's so much to talk about when I talk to you, but.

Chris Hajian (04:38)
Yeah,

Eileen Kelly (04:46)
I was thinking about concerts and, you know, I was just thinking you're a composer, you're a musician. And I was thinking about musical themes.

but I was just thinking about how big and important music was growing up for us. Right. And how

Chris Hajian (04:55)
you.

Eileen Kelly (05:05)
like

nail it like Columbia House tapes and CDs. Remember that?

Chris Hajian (05:10)
Yes.

I mean, yeah, and to totally date myself, and I'll throw you into a little bit. I mean, just getting records when they were released, I used to go to Corvettes. Do remember Corvettes? I used to go to obviously Sam Goody and then Tower Records The concept of going to Corvettes when the record was released, I was so excited to go in there and they had a great record department.

Eileen Kelly (05:22)
Yes, I remember Corvettes.

Mm-hmm. Tower, then Tower Records and yeah.

Chris Hajian (05:37)
That was a big part of it, but you're 100 % right. I don't know what my life would be like without hearing incredible live music and of all sorts of genres and types. And it was a huge part of my upbringing, especially being in a city like New York or the nearby states, what it has to offer here. The eclecticism is unbelievable.

Eileen Kelly (05:56)
Now, I know your dad was a musician. Did he expose you to music?

Chris Hajian (06:00)
Totally. I mean, when I was, I started playing trumpet at five because I wanted to be like my dad. he listened to jazz, bebop, also Louis Armstrong, big bands, all that kind of stuff and classical music. So, you know, I was five, six years old listening to Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Igor Stravinsky, Beethoven, Ravel. mean, yeah, I mean, there is no better.

early music education than someone in your family just playing that stuff at an age where most children don't get to hear that stuff.

Eileen Kelly (06:33)
Yeah, and I mean, it really gets in the fiber of your being. I grew up on nothing, but my dad was from Jersey City next door to Hoboken. So the chairman of the board was the only thing that my dad would allow in his car. And when he was home, every Frank Sinatra, I mean, I think I know every recording, live studio, whatever.

Chris Hajian (06:45)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (06:56)
my mom listened to Irish music, basically the Clancy Brothers.

Chris Hajian (06:59)
Nice.

Eileen Kelly (07:00)
And that was it, like from when I was young and that other than Sesame Street was all the music that I knew.

Chris Hajian (07:06)
And then of course, whatever pop music and stuff was going on. Do you know, I have to send it to you. There was a recording of Danny Boy that the jazz piano player Keith Jarrett recorded live. Do you know that recording? It's gonna, you will sob. It's like a beautiful tune and been done so many ways. And when I say it's a jazz interpretation, it is by no means like this esoteric, petty version.

Eileen Kelly (07:19)
I don't.

Yeah.

Chris Hajian (07:32)
It is the most beautiful, pure version, one of the most. I don't want to say the most. I will share it with you because the touch that he had on the panel is just like no one else. So I'll send that to you. Yeah. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (07:43)
Yeah, I would love that.

Thank you.

funny because that's my feeling of Irish music is yes, there are the pub songs and the things that kind of get you going. in my house, mostly it was really sad. Like a lot of, you know, this was also like the height of the troubles in Northern Ireland. And we were very much connected to that. And,

Chris Hajian (07:49)
Are there-

Right. Right. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (08:10)
to me, Frank Sinatra was the fun music and the Irish music came out and it was like, oof.

Chris Hajian (08:13)
Right.

Well, know, listen, and if you want to go by that stereotype, which is a little unfair, it's like, you know, an Irish police officer gets killed and they play the bagpipes at the funeral. You know, there's a beauty in that too, I think. But I understand how like people can hear that stuff sometimes and go like, God.

Eileen Kelly (08:28)
Yes, yeah.

Yeah,

it's sad, but it also, leans so much into it that it made it, okay to be sad and to grieve and to feel it, you know?

Chris Hajian (08:40)
Yeah.

But then if you think about film scores, which of course I always do, you think about

the bagpipes in Braveheart and some of these scores where like that sound was just absolutely huge part of defining what the narrative was. So, yeah. I always wondered though, and then like as far as like, you you've seen a lot of bands and performers live. Are there one or two that you never saw that you wish you did live?

Eileen Kelly (08:51)
Yeah, so rousing and...

Yes. Yeah, so rich.

Chris Hajian (09:09)
or in person or

Eileen Kelly (09:10)
That

I wish I did. It's funny, I don't feel like, maybe the Who. I never saw them. And yeah, I saw Tommy, the newest incarnation of Tommy last year. Did you? I thought it was amazing. ⁓

Chris Hajian (09:16)
That wasn't a great show. Yeah, I know you mean.

Me too. Yeah, me too.

thought what Makanoff did with the screens and the lighting, I guess it was unbelievably inventive.

Eileen Kelly (09:31)
my gosh, I know.

that made me, I wasn't really that into them when I was young. there were a couple of songs, don't know, it wasn't really my genre when I was growing up. But after seeing that musical, I was like, wow, I would have liked to have seen Pete Townsend and Roger Daltry like really at the height of their careers, you know? Okay, first concert.

Chris Hajian (09:47)
Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

My first concert? boy. I'll rule out some of the probably was all classical stuff when I was really young. But let me, like it was a Philharmonic, my dad took me and then Nutcracker, all that beautiful stuff. But I would say in the pop arena, first concert I heard was Earth, Wind and Fire.

Eileen Kelly (09:58)
Yeah.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. Tell me that first and then.

That's amazing.

How fun! Yeah!

Chris Hajian (10:20)
Not bad, right? Yeah, I know.

Because I loved in

70s, loved my

I tended to go towards the more R &B music, Stevie Wonder, the Earth Wind and Fire the Marvin Gaye. That was my first foray because I think because I had a love for jazz and hearing those harmonies and stuff. So that's why I went first. And for me, I heard that stuff earlier on. And then I got into more standard rock and roll.

Eileen Kelly (10:30)
Yeah.

Yes.

Chris Hajian (10:46)
way later, because I was this geeky kid who liked jazz and classical. But then that was my entree. then later on, I started to develop a lot of obviously Beatles and Stones and Led Zeppelin and Fleetwood Mac, all that stuff I got to like, but kind of much later than most people.

Eileen Kelly (11:02)
Yeah, and I could imagine that feeling kind of lightweight to you after your upbringing.

Chris Hajian (11:07)
You know, that's funny

you say that. I'm not a snob like that, but I know what you mean. I mean, there is some forms of pop music that just harmonically that doesn't interest me, right? But that's just me. That's just what my head is at. Yeah, yeah, it's like, okay, but that doesn't mean it can't move other people and it all needs to be out there. But I think we're all at some level, whatever those early ⁓ sparks or glimmers are of music is what we take with us. And yeah, I know a lot of people that

Eileen Kelly (11:18)
Mm-hmm. Right. Too repetitive or too, yeah.

Chris Hajian (11:37)
things I would never think that would ever be interesting. They go, yeah, I'm not into it. I'm like, okay, wow. So it's interesting, right? So I'm

Eileen Kelly (11:43)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I going back to the first music, growing up on Irish music and then hearing the bad big country and the song big country. Do you remember that song? That was like, oh my God, you know, I felt like it grabbed me on my bones. You know what I mean? oh my gosh, this is amazing. You know, or like.

Chris Hajian (11:55)
Yeah, Yeah, totally.

Yeah. How do you know me

that well?

Eileen Kelly (12:08)
Yeah, or U2 Like

that was one of my first concerts, not the first, but one of my first

it, the roots of it really felt familiar. So it was easy to like them right away, you know?

Chris Hajian (12:21)
Yeah, so the most incredible thing to me, there's many about music, but like, it'll completely put you in a space of remembering where you were when you heard the song, certain situations. It will, that memory burn is so intense and so beautiful in your life. And it can also be honestly for sad moments too, of course. But it can represent like, know, almost everyone will remember the song that was playing when they whatever, had their first kiss or went to prom or...

Eileen Kelly (12:49)
Yes.

Chris Hajian (12:50)
Well, whatever, something, whatever, rode their bike or whatever. It's incredible how music

brands those moments. Could have gotten a better word, crystallizes, yeah.

Eileen Kelly (12:57)
crystallizes. Yeah.

I feel like music does that for me and smell does that for me. Like I'll get into an elevator and a woman will have a perfume on that a teacher had when I was in second grade and I'm like, my God. And it just like drops you into that moment.

Chris Hajian (13:06)
Sent.

Yes.

Yes, to this day one of my favorite natural things is a fresh cut grass, you know, when they mow the grass. And obviously I'm living in an urban jungle now so I don't get too much of that here. But when I do think back fondly on my childhood years, like that was, that was an aroma that I, it made me feel very safe I don't know, just taking care of sort of, I don't know what it was, something beautiful about it, you know.

Eileen Kelly (13:22)
Yeah.

you know what I thought you were going to say? I thought you were going to say, brought you back to your first Mets game.

Chris Hajian (13:46)
Well,

yes, no doubt there's a correlation between freshly manicured grass and lawn and a beautiful ballpark. So you're right. Yeah. So that is wild about that. I also think it's interesting how peer pressure or influences of other schoolmates can kind of in a positive way, but also some is in the negative way. Because I remember

Eileen Kelly (13:54)
Yeah.

Chris Hajian (14:12)
When I expressed, I remember I was in fifth grade and they brought in a small dance troupe to do part of the Firebird, the ballet, the Firebird by Stravinsky, which is stunning. And it's got this melody at the end of it that to this day is probably one of the most memory burned moments of why I was so completely in awe of what music makes you feel. And it's gorgeous melody. Anyway, this comes in and I had already known that.

Eileen Kelly (14:21)
Mm. Mm.

Chris Hajian (14:38)
melody and that piece because my dad used to play the records, the old piece of it. So we're in the yard after and you know most of the children out of Aigle are like, oh that sucked, that was two hours, what a bore, you know. Anyway they're expressing and you know look I kind of get it if you're that age. Well I made the big mistake of going saying I think it was really beautiful and that was like I you know sadly I had to deal with all the ramifications of people calling me names.

Eileen Kelly (15:05)
my god.

Chris Hajian (15:07)
and terrible things based on the fact that I expressed some level of sensitivity or something. And I'm God, why did I say that? It's okay, I I dealt with it whatever you're to deal with these things. But yeah, that is an interesting part of it too. Sometimes people maybe can't express something that they love for fear of being judged or being made fun of. And I mean, that just, that sucks. I hate that. People could... I can't stand that, yeah, so. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (15:12)
Right emotion.

Right.

Bye now.

Yeah.

Chris Hajian (15:33)
Yeah, that's what happens. And that's why it's interesting when you think about the placement of songs in films, right? I mean, how incredibly memorable are some of those? mean, whether it's Moon River, as an older example, or the film Almost Famous, where they use all these beautiful songs to kind of tell the narrative. I mean, boy, that's another powerful moment when you combine cinema and music, or in this case, songs. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (15:51)
Yay!

Yeah, my daughter

was just saying that I rocking around the Christmas tree is just a song that, you know, we've heard a million times. And so when when the Christmas radio station is on and that plays, I'm going to go and skip it and skip to something else. But I went to skip it when she was home for Thanksgiving and she was like, I love this song. It reminds me of the scene at home alone. And like for her, that was probably maybe the first time she heard that song. I don't know. You know, so yeah.

Chris Hajian (16:26)
Isn't it

wild that there can be like a comfort in music, right? Yeah, and certainly, you know, going through hard times in life, what it can represent, it can allow you to cry, it can allow you to feel your feelings, it can bring you home into a safe place, and it can inspire you to kind of get out of a tough place, depending on where you are. And certainly, if you're a creator of music, my God, how many incredible pieces of music were born from terrible times in life and going through something.

Eileen Kelly (16:31)
Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Hajian (16:54)
And I mean, there's nothing better than to survive something terrible in life and to create something beautiful from it. That's pretty good.

Eileen Kelly (17:00)
Yeah,

it's a lot of compost for the garden with that one. ⁓ Well, my first concert, it depends on what the criteria is because the first concert I ever wanted to go to and went to was Bruce Springsteen, Born in the USA Tour at the Meadowlands, which is

Chris Hajian (17:02)
Exactly, yeah, well said, exactly.

Wow.

I went to one of those. He did a couple days there, Yeah, was like three and a half, four hours or something. was crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (17:23)
Yeah, 1984, yep. Yep, phenomenal.

when I was in maybe fifth grade, my family went to Hershey Park and Rupert Holmes was playing at Hershey Park.

Chris Hajian (17:37)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (17:39)
I did see him when I was in fifth grade, but it was sort of like part of the park experience, you know?

Chris Hajian (17:40)
Okay. ⁓

That's a very vast different type of artist. That's great.

Eileen Kelly (17:47)
I know. ⁓

And what's the, I don't know if I want, was gonna say bet. I was gonna say first and worst, but I don't know if you have a worst.

Chris Hajian (17:58)
Oh, yeah.

There are probably some clunkers that I forgot about. will tell you one, if you don't mind, I'll tell you one of the, there's a lot of memorable ones, but I remember a friend of mine was doing live sound at a club in Manhattan, and this is in the 80s, and he said to me, what are you doing at midnight? I'm just like 10 o'clock at night. like, I don't know, nothing. I'm just here, he goes, get dressed and come down to the club. I said, why? He goes,

He says, Prince is doing an invited 100 person, set at this club. I'm like, ⁓ okay, I'll be there. I'll take a shower. And I was maybe between 15 and 20 feet away from him doing this set with, it was under a hundred people. And it was, it was just incredible. Like just experiencing with that so close and so intimate. And you felt, I felt like you were like one of the top.

Eileen Kelly (18:45)
my gosh.

Chris Hajian (18:52)
luckiest people in the world to be a part of this. And it was just awesome. So that was like one that stood out because it was such a unique situation, you know.

Eileen Kelly (18:55)
Wow.

Now, because

it was so small and because it was invited, what was the vibe like? Were people self-conscious or were people like rocking out?

Chris Hajian (19:06)
No, no, no, that's

a great question. I didn't find that. I found that the people were even more just free, they were dancing, were like in... Yeah, and some people were like interacting with him up to some level, because he can be a little shy, but he was engaging with the audience more than I thought. And it just felt like you were in this person's living room, and he's just like, I'm gonna play some tunes for you. so it was pretty cool. was beyond pretty cool. It still one of the highlights of...

Eileen Kelly (19:14)
Really?

Wow.

Chris Hajian (19:34)
live performances that I've experienced. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (19:37)
Yeah,

I had a friend who worked for HBO. I guess they owned VH1 maybe back then, I don't know, but somehow she brought me to Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds unplugged, VH1 unplugged.

Chris Hajian (19:53)
Yeah, that's really cool.

Eileen Kelly (19:55)
I had all his albums, was super into him at the

we were sitting up,

in the mezzanine and there were all these suits on the floor and you would have thought they were listening to chamber music. nobody was even tapping their foot. I was, my friend wasn't into them and didn't really know the music, but I was up there standing alone, like standing in my seat, dancing and like mouthing the words to every song. And I saw one of the producers point up and

Chris Hajian (20:21)
Yeah, let's schedule.

Eileen Kelly (20:29)
say she needs to be down here. Because you know, as an artist, when you're getting nothing from the audience, it's like rough.

Chris Hajian (20:32)
Nice. Cool.

No.

A bunch of stoic people in the front just like staring like mannequins.

Eileen Kelly (20:42)
Yeah,

it feels like a rejection and most people probably don't think of it like this, but it's a conversation. It's a two-way conversation. Even if you're not speaking, it's still a conversation. And when you're getting nothing back, mean, all of us know what it's like to be in a conversation with someone that gives you one word answers, right? And you're like, it's like pulling teeth. And that's the way it starts to feel when you're on stage and you're not getting much back.

Chris Hajian (21:04)
Yes, yes, yes.

Yes.

Eileen Kelly (21:10)
And

I felt so sorry for it. I mean, they did a great job, but I felt so sorry for them because it was not what you were describing at all.

Chris Hajian (21:15)
Yeah, I know you're right.

know, Billy Joel forever, they never sold the first two rows of any of his concerts and he would bring people up from those seats. He's done that for years and years. you've got those people that all of sudden get a seat upgrade that are like the diehard fans that maybe, and he would put those people in the first two rows. I mean, that's so cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (21:32)
Totally. And those are usually the people in the nosebleeds.

Amazing. And so generous, but also just so smart

as an artist to get that, to know you want that energy right there, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one. ⁓ I told you about the MTV Music Awards, right? The video music awards and the Rolling Stones. I mean, there were so many amazing performers that night, but the Rolling Stones were incredible and they were practicing.

Chris Hajian (21:41)
Exactly.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

yes, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Eileen Kelly (22:04)
before, by the way, they practiced more than any other band that day, because we had to be there, I don't know, eight hours before the show, 10 hours before the show, something like that. So we were just hanging out in Radio City and they went through their set over and over again. And Mick Jagger apologized to us for having gone through it so many times. And I was like, what, you're Mick Jagger.

Chris Hajian (22:30)
of friends that played, toured with him years ago in the horn section. yeah, everything about them were buttoned up, pros trying to, you I mean, I, you have nothing but respect for that. I would, you know, it's interesting. I think just thinking about what you said, um, I think the only, bad experiences, the ones that let me down were like really bad, obvious lip syncing situations.

Eileen Kelly (22:40)
Yeah.

⁓

Chris Hajian (22:54)
Yeah, I've been, I don't remember specifically, but I'm like, are you kidding me? when it's that obvious, so they're not really singing live, I guess the authenticity goes out the window for me.

Eileen Kelly (23:03)
Yeah, I think

the only time I've ever seen anyone lip sync live is Madonna, but yeah, with the dancing and she was singing, she was just singing over her vocal track. So it was okay, know, it was understandable.

Chris Hajian (23:10)
Yeah, well, the dance, that's the reason.

Yeah, you are.

Yeah, I think there was a

certain era. think a lot of that that 80s, 90s, and also the way that music was produced, there was that whole, I mean, obviously the Milli Vanilli scandal. I do think there was that era where like, you know, certain artists were getting really known because of their general persona. They might not be the greatest singers. So, you know, the live performance was this incredible thing of dance and singing.

So when it's all that stuff, there has to be some level of like, someone's got to give a little, right? You can't be doing all that stuff on stage, jumping around like that and expect to strongly. So that was more of that era. You're like, Jada Jackson too. I don't think...

Eileen Kelly (23:54)
Right. Right. I was just going to say that I saw Janet Jackson at the Garden

State Art Center and I don't recall ever seeing her not, like it wasn't a messy lip sync. You know what I mean? Like it all felt pretty seamless, but I'm sure there was some lip syncing involved.

Chris Hajian (24:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, look,

there all kinds of tricks some of these bands did. Yeah, you do whatever. I would say, though, there were a few bands I saw live that I didn't necessarily listen to so much a part of my life, but I went because a friend wanted me to go, or I went. And I remember Tom Petty. And I've always respected Tom Petty. I don't listen to it a ton in my own life, but I saw him live once, and I had a whole new level of respect for what his music was like.

I was blown away about how I was like, wow, this is a really enjoyable concert. So that was like one example the other way, you know? Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (24:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's had

quite a few incarnations too. He had a band. Years ago, but not that many years ago, I heard this song and I'm like, that's Tom Petty. How do I not know this song? And I looked at the artist and it was like Mud Creek or Mud something.

Chris Hajian (25:08)
I didn't

Eileen Kelly (25:09)
And I was like,

my God, whoever this is, they sound just like Tom Petty. And then I had to Google it because it was uncanny. And it turned out like that was a band that he had before Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. Yeah, so I think. Yes.

Chris Hajian (25:13)
Wow.

And then was he in the traveling Woolberries?

Right, so he seems to be very into collabs. That's cool. Yeah, that was one example. So what about music and films? Okay, I know I mentioned a few, but are there two or three moments that you just go like every time you lose it or you go like, God, here it comes. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (25:25)
Yeah, and really prolific, yeah.

Well now, well,

Rocky, I mean, Rocky is, I still listen to the soundtrack. ⁓ Conti?

Chris Hajian (25:42)
Perfect. Good. What about like,

We Were or any of those films, any of those like... Layout?

Eileen Kelly (25:49)
Yeah, with vocals. Yeah, the way we were.

That song, mean, that really just like gets you in the heart, you know. Just vocally in her phrasing and God, it's just so incredible.

Chris Hajian (25:55)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (26:04)
There are a lot of, well, 80s songs, 80s movies, like, orchestral maneuvers in the dark, if you leave, and Don't You Forget About Me from The Breakfast Club, and it just like...

Chris Hajian (26:11)
Yeah.

Yeah,

you brought up an amazing genre that John Hughes, that whole genre of all those films, right? Man, they use pop songs so well in those films.

Eileen Kelly (26:29)
Yeah, but like cool new wave bands that a lot of people didn't have access to. Like I had a boom box that I put tin foil on the antenna to get in WLIR, which was the closest alternative rock station to New Jersey. And it like had to be angled a certain way and it came in better on rainy days than not rainy days. So it was, tough. And I'm sure there were...

Chris Hajian (26:32)
Yeah.

Yeah.

the ⁓

Eileen Kelly (26:57)
many areas of the country that never heard that music until they saw a John Hughes movie.

Chris Hajian (27:02)
You're right. And you know, one of my, we've spoken about this, one of my all time waterworks moments is the end of trains, planes and automobiles, right? So you have that incredible montage of what they're using that electronic band. don't remember the name right now in that mode, that scene where he's figuring out that this guy Dell has no home. So he goes back that great acting performance by Candy who's heartbreaking. And then they cut where he brings them to his house for Thanksgiving and it's.

Eileen Kelly (27:18)
Yes!

Yes.

Chris Hajian (27:28)
Every time you go. And we're walking with the suitcase. It's just like, wow, I think to use that song there was just so cool.

Eileen Kelly (27:29)
Yes. Yep.

I know.

I know, and now

when I hear that song, that's the scene that plays in my head.

Chris Hajian (27:41)
Exactly. You know, I have a joke with some of my friends in the industry. It's leveled off a little now, but at one point, the most, biggest overuse of a song in montages and films, and it kept getting used over and over again, and it got to the point, like, here we go again. You ready? Mr. Blue Sky. Okay, so there was like a 20 year era where that thing was licensed like,

Eileen Kelly (28:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Chris Hajian (28:09)
Like think about how that would be used in a montage, like a Paul Rudd film. Like, okay, he gets dumped by the girlfriend. Now he's finally going to get over it. He goes, he starts working out. He's doing his best. He's drinking smoothies and you play that song. But it works like gold every time.

Eileen Kelly (28:20)
Mm-hmm.

It does, it really does. But what

was so weird is it was so overused, like, I don't know, 25 years after it came out or something. I'll give you another one, brown eyed girl.

Chris Hajian (28:35)
I know, mean, Oh God, another totally.

Yeah, no, but it is funny. and listen, good for anyone that writes it to make the money on it. But I think it does get to a point where you're have tell people enough of this because it's starting to lose its, yeah, yeah.

Eileen Kelly (28:45)
Right.

It has for me. mean, absolutely. Like I can't listen

to it and it's such a good song, but I can't listen to it anymore because it it went past the point of no return for me.

Chris Hajian (28:59)
Yeah, exactly. So that is

funny how when they get to that level, you're like, okay, now can we try something?

Eileen Kelly (29:04)
It has

no meaning now, you know? Yeah, anything they're trying to evoke, it's lost.

Chris Hajian (29:06)
Yep, exactly.

You

Eileen Kelly (29:12)
Do you have favorite soundtracks? Top five.

Chris Hajian (29:16)
Now when you say sound text, you mean ⁓ song sound tracks or score sound tracks

Well, if you want to stay with songs, like soundtracks, mean, wow, let's see. mean, okay, I I put Almost Famous in. Almost Famous is, I mean, that's a great soundtrack, right, obviously. I mean, E. Forrest Gump has an amazing soundtrack of all the songs that he experiences as he goes through. Yeah, that's another one that, as far as that goes. Let me think what else from the song end. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (29:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, maybe we need to do both categories.

Yeah, that is a great soundtrack.

through each era. Yeah.

Chris Hajian (29:50)
Those are the ones that are coming to me now from this as far as like song soundtracks.

Eileen Kelly (29:55)
Yeah, it's funny, I don't think of Forrest Gump and now I have to go back and revisit it.

Chris Hajian (29:58)
No, you

go back to those, it's super cool. Because you get all those eras and like it goes to all these different, including like, yeah, yeah, totally. So you're just really smartly put together. That sticks out at me. ⁓ Even some of those like, hip hop films had some great stuff in there, right? Like New Jack City might be one. Yeah, some of those had, they're great. mean, they really, really resonated. And then, yeah.

Eileen Kelly (30:04)
60s, 70s, 80s.

Yeah.

yes, like, do sin

Yeah.

Chris Hajian (30:23)
So that's what strikes me. As far as scores and instrumental scores, I have so many, it would be so hard to list, like, know, American Beauty, Shawshank Redemption, all the Eno Morikone stuff. I mean, this is just so many, so many. Yeah, that I, yeah.

Eileen Kelly (30:37)
Yes. Yeah.

you're making me want to go back and revisit American Beauty too, not to see the film necessarily, because I got to say it's ruined for me now. I mean, it was creepy to begin with, creepier than I felt like people pointed out, you know? It was a...

Chris Hajian (30:47)
Yeah, I understand.

Well, here's

the thing, right, as somebody who writes instrumental music, which is often not always a feature because it's, you complimentary, that score, that little marimba quirky thing, it's created a sound. And I know because I've been asked to mimic that sound for 15 years after because yeah, and there's a couple of scores where they just become such a big part of the sound and Inception's another one, you know, like some.

Eileen Kelly (31:05)
Right.

Hmm.

Chris Hajian (31:26)
Some of these scores take on a bigger ⁓ sense of ⁓ notoriety. So that one just, it was a very, very different way to score a film. I always appreciated it. Thomas Newman is one of my favorite of all time. He's he's beyond talented. Yeah, so of course, yeah, I Williams, amazing. And people don't know a lot about Williams' background. He was a jazz piano player and he has this whole background in that world. if you, he has a great score. Catch me if you can. That's it.

Eileen Kelly (31:38)
⁓ Yeah, John Williams. Ennio Morricone.

⁓ yeah.

Chris Hajian (31:57)
That's

another amazing, I mean, that's like a tour de force. Composers look at that score and they go like...

Eileen Kelly (32:03)
Wow.

Chris Hajian (32:03)
Yeah, so there's those. But the great thing about film scoring is there's like every project is an opportunity to do something different and to not approach it the same way creatively. So that's to me a real joy and also terrifying sometimes.

Eileen Kelly (32:17)
it's probably better I can't remember it because I don't know if I'd want to call them out, but I was watching a movie not long ago, like three weeks ago when I was thinking of you, because the music was so, there was no connection between the music and the movie. it was so strange, the music choices behind these scenes that

Chris Hajian (32:33)
Big. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (32:42)
It was ruining the movie for me to the point where I shut it off.

Chris Hajian (32:46)
You know, obviously a good score can enhance a film, a bad score can do some damage. It's tough to say good and bad, it's all subjective, but I understand what you're saying. You know, that can work. Sometimes there's a wonderful juxtaposition that can come of that. But, you know, within that there's levels too. Like, and there's just some things you just go like, was that just an arbitrary pick? Like, I always feel like it can be a really bold choice, but it's still gotta be rooted in something like that I get. You know, it's not just, oh, you put something different. Like, that's not a...

Eileen Kelly (32:58)
Yeah.

Right, energetically,

it's gotta kinda match what's going on. If you're like plunking on piano keys in a funny way while someone is like, I don't know, hiding from a killer or something, like it's not gonna work, you know?

Chris Hajian (33:20)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, there's all different ways to approach it. I do always applaud people for trying some things that are different, but yes. But there's a fine line there, absolutely, yeah.

Eileen Kelly (33:34)
Yeah.

It must be, have you ever played a score to one movie while watching scenes from another?

Chris Hajian (33:47)
Yeah, totally. mean, that's a great question that you asked that. I mean, a lot of that is how we get a film to begin with. Before I work on a score, they put temp music in a film. And temp music is exactly that. They'll take ⁓ music from another film and go, this is the general vibe. We like this. And it's a very perilous thing for a composer because they hold on to that. It becomes like Stockholm syndrome. They hold on to that score because they're familiar with it it works.

Eileen Kelly (33:57)
⁓

Okay

Yeah.

Chris Hajian (34:15)
And for some directors, not all, they just, they cannot separate that scene from that music, it becomes branded. So then they'll say to a composer, just give me that in your own version of it. you know, and we're like, well, hold on, we got a lot else to offer here. And so that can be really, really challenging. And I always try to say to them, don't you think your film requires something completely original? You know, I'll do my best, but some of them are just, they're gonna hold on to that because it just becomes a thing.

Eileen Kelly (34:30)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chris Hajian (34:45)
That's it, it works.

Eileen Kelly (34:47)
Is it my imagination or has some movie music been recycled for other movies?

Chris Hajian (34:53)
not your imagination. Re-licensed. A great example is Requiem for a Dream that has a phenomenal score by Clint Manziel. There's that very, very ⁓ building string thing. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (35:08)
Wait, don't

sing it because you're gonna bring me back to that movie. And I've tried very hard to forget it. I still do have PTSD from that.

Chris Hajian (35:13)
Okay, okay, okay, I don't want to traumatize you. Okay, sorry, okay. But anyway, it was an incredible... So

I won't sing it. We'll pretend that didn't happen. But he has this big building theme, and that's a great example of how it's been licensed to other things. I mean, they won't do that with like Star Wars, because that's so ridiculous, because it's so iconic to that franchise. But absolutely, people will license a piece of music.

Eileen Kelly (35:38)
feel like, I know what you're saying about Star Wars, but I swear, I feel like there's a piece of music from something really big, like Saving Private Ryan or some, I don't know, not Titanic, but something big like that, that was then used for something else big.

Chris Hajian (35:57)
that has that similar, yeah.

Maybe, or maybe it's just an incredibly very good version of almost that same thing. yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, mean, yeah. Unfortunately, that does happen a lot, you know? And yet, I mean, part of the skills as a film composer is, you know, well, how do I give them that sound? It's not always the most original thing, you know? And it's not always, I don't think, the best choice, but, you know, yeah. Yeah, but I agree with you. If something is too close to something else, you know, it's funny.

Eileen Kelly (36:03)
Yeah, maybe the director was like, just do that, but in your own way.

Yeah.

Chris Hajian (36:26)
not to go back to traumatize you, but Requiem of a Dream, they were talking to the director and he asked Aronofsky and they were like asking him, like, what do you think when you, like, you've heard that music from your film and now it's using these other things? And he goes, look, I'm thrilled for the composer because he's making money and it's an incredible piece of music. He goes, but frankly, it's tough because usually when you come into a film, you're experiencing something new, right? You don't know anything about what you're getting. says, and now people that watch that film now,

Like, that music, there's an, like, lots of them have heard that piece of music. it doesn't resonate the same way with the audience, which is very different, you know?

Eileen Kelly (37:05)
Yeah, and they may have another association with it.

Chris Hajian (37:07)
Exactly.

Yeah. anyway, yeah.

Eileen Kelly (37:10)
That's weird. Yeah.

And it's true. It's like you're happy for the composer and they need to make a living, but it's such an emotional connection that's made. it's why we hate hearing songs from our youth used in like arthritis medicine commercials or whatever. It's like, that hurts. Yeah.

Chris Hajian (37:30)
You and you go like, really, that one? cut you.

I know. You know, it's funny, people think that the artist always has control of that. They don't necessarily. People think, what is that? Peter Gabriel, I love, there was something of a Peter Gabriel, something, ⁓ God. But then you realize that they don't always control the masters. You don't know how that deal was cut. it's not like Peter Gabriel's like, let me make a hundred grand. It doesn't necessarily mean they want it. Now, some artists get to a point where they can have some say, but not all of them do. So.

Eileen Kelly (37:49)
Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Chris Hajian (37:59)
You know,

so it's not always, just, when you see that, sometimes people throw a lot of shade on the artist. They think they're selling out and, you know, but you remember what Springsteen did with, was it Reagan that wanted to use? No, right, so he had enough clout or must've had the control where he said, you can't use that. I mean, that's whole thing is nuts, not to get into a political ramp, but like people taking these songs and using them, like, nuts.

Eileen Kelly (38:09)
Yeah.

I know,

but I will say that Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter have spoken out and said, stop using my music. Now I don't know what the law is on that.

Chris Hajian (38:33)
Yeah,

that gets really murky. I mean, you can try it. can try it. I sometimes it's just the nuisance of it. They don't want to deal with the bad press. Like, I won't use a song. But you remember, like, what did Clinton use? phone, smartphone. Yeah, yeah, I'd say that was a big point. But it's funny. It's a great story. The composer that wrote the score to Remember the Titans, you ever see that film? Maybe, okay. It's this incredible, rousing, orchestral score. It's an amazing score.

Eileen Kelly (38:35)
Right.

Right.

don't stop thinking about tomorrow.

Many, many years ago, yeah.

Chris Hajian (39:02)
When Obama was running, he tells this great story. He was just home one night and his friend calls up, he goes, what are you doing? He goes, I'm just working on some music. He goes, put on the news, put on CNN. Obama is blasting your score to remember the Titans like it's at a kiss concert. He's like, what? And he put it on. was like, this is rousing music. He was like, so, he had no idea until like.

Eileen Kelly (39:28)
And what

was he at, like a rally?

Chris Hajian (39:30)
Yeah, it's one of his big rallies towards the very close to the end of like this incredible score is coming out there with a huge part of like recognizing that moment. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (39:34)
wow.

Wow. And I wonder

what the, well, the rights, the laws around it, playing an artist's music at a public function has, there are rules to that, right? And they're, yeah.

Chris Hajian (39:53)
Some, yes. I think

a lot more when it's an artist who's a singer and his lyrics involve. I think when it's instrumental music, it's a little bit different. It's a different application. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (39:58)
All right.

public domain kind of, yeah. That's interesting.

So ⁓ I know you're working on a score right now for a new Shirley MacLean movie. Yeah.

Chris Hajian (40:10)
Yes. Thank you for asking, Eileen. Yes,

I'm really, really excited about this film. was a tremendous opportunity. It's a film called People Not Places, and it's Shirley MacLaine and Stephen Dorff are the main actors, the leads. it's very much mirrored some stuff I went through in my life. So it's an incredibly personal experience for me. And Shirley is like a force of nature. She's 90 years old in this film. I got to visit her on set in Atlantic City.

And it's incredible when you, just to be upfront, it's incredible just to be with somebody kind of so iconic and has such a history. She was an amazing woman. I couldn't not believe her spirit and her energy at 90.

but it's a beautiful film about a woman at that age who's living in an assisted living facility. Obviously her husband is not with her anymore and her son is kind of checked out. You know, he visits her but.

He's kind of a little resentful of it. She makes these beautiful friends in her community. Mercedes Ruel is also in the film. She makes these friends and she's a lovely soul, but like really lacking a connection to her son.

Eileen Kelly (41:13)
wow.

Chris Hajian (41:18)
it's kind of like the metaphor of life that you can meet someone at any time in your life, even if it's for three months or a month or a weekend, and they can just have a profound effect on your life. And they form this relationship where both of them get something so needed by the other person and their lives are enhanced. And they go through a really interesting journey, too. It's not...

It's not all fun and games. There's some incredibly inspiring moments, but some really tough stuff comes out. But at the end of the day, it's just incredibly satisfying film with a beautiful screenplay, acted well, directed well. And I just, hope my score honors it in the way it needs to be. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (41:54)
⁓

Well, I've heard some little snippets on social media and they're absolutely beautiful. So I cannot wait to see the film and hear your score. ⁓ absolutely. Do you have any idea what the release date might be?

Chris Hajian (42:00)
Thank you, Evan. Yeah, I appreciate it. Well, thank you for asking about it and I appreciate that. Yeah.

No, I know that, you know, it's so fun. Everyone always asks me that and like, you know, of course, I always say, how long is a piece of string? You know, like, mean, they're finishing it now, they're mixing now. I'm hopeful that sometime in the next six months or, know, during the early part of the next year,

Eileen Kelly (42:14)
Well, we want to hear it.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's done. Is it done? It's done shooting now?

Chris Hajian (42:30)
Yeah,

they're mixing right now. And in fact, I'm still doing, when I'm done with this, I'm be doing a little tweak on something. So there's always something else to do.

they're tweaking the edit. So I got to re-look at it. and one of the beautiful things just to share is, you know, Olivia's a singer-songwriter, my daughter. The director, asked to hear a bunch of her songs. So Olivia sent a playlist of a bunch of her songs and Brad, the director, immediately said,

Eileen Kelly (42:44)
Yeah?

Yeah.

Chris Hajian (42:57)
This song, Saturn, which is a song Olivia wrote when she was 15, by the way, she's 22 now, where I think it would be great in the sequence in the film. I like, it to me you picked that one. At first, I didn't necessarily think that would be the one, but obviously, directors have a really good vision and idea of how that works. We start looking at it, I'm like, wow, this is really cool. They love it. So then what happened was it was such a complex sequence.

that the song had to be kind of arranged and cut so that the vocals fit in and around this very pivotal turning point of the film. So, I mean, just to say, like, I'm absolutely an emotional father now to a daughter who's musical and brilliant. And I was working on her arrangement and doing a little bit of what I do. And I'm like, you know, life is pretty good right now. Like, I'm working on a film where my score is on and my daughter's song is getting recognized and is beautiful. And I'm working on her music and...

There's so much about this film that is so positive in my life.

Eileen Kelly (44:00)
You know, you think about things that you pass down to your kids or, you know, my mom died before I had kids and everyone in my family has light eyes, but my mom had like cornflower blue eyes, just different than mine, different that, know, just more blue, not gray or green mixed in, but just blue. And my daughter has her eyes.

Chris Hajian (44:14)
Interesting.

Eileen Kelly (44:26)
And it's wild to see, right? But you see, you think of things like that when you think of what you pass down to your children. But as you're telling me about Olivia's song, I'm thinking of your dad, you know, passing this gift to you and through you to Olivia.

Chris Hajian (44:40)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so beautiful,

Eileen. Thank you for saying it because, and what I love about that, yeah, you're right, that's three generations now, right? And what I love about that is each of us found our own path within music, right? Like, look, I started playing trumpet, but then I realized composition was more my thing. So my dad played trumpet, I started doing composing, mostly instrumental film scores, and Olivia is squarely in the singer-songwriter.

world. Not that we can't do other stuff, but each of us have made our own mark and found our own voice within this beautiful thing of creating music.

Eileen Kelly (45:17)
And I love that it's like you're taking it, doing your own thing with it. There's never any, measuring yourself against the other person because it's your own thing.

Chris Hajian (45:26)
Yeah, and when you see this sequence of Olivia's song, her song is called Saturn. When you see how this works in this montage, it's really going to be pretty interesting. I'm excited to see how it affects you emotionally. Yeah, so good. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (45:36)
Wow. Yeah, I can't wait. I'm

so excited. A lot to look forward to in the new year.

Chris Hajian (45:43)
Yes, well, always have do that. Life is not always easy and there's challenges, but I think looking forward and with some sense of like, we do what we do. We have to persevere on, you know.

Eileen Kelly (45:53)
Yeah.

And speaking of what you do, I want to take this opportunity to thank you because Chris

Chris Hajian (45:57)
Okay.

Eileen Kelly (46:03)
and given us the most just fantastic new score. So our score theme song theme music. I don't know what you call it for a podcast. I don't know what the terminology is. Theme. Yeah. So.

Chris Hajian (46:11)
Yeah, team score and some little, yeah, yeah, team and some underscore, little underscore. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (46:20)
I'm unveiling it now. You're gonna hear it for the first time as we close out the show. I am so grateful to you. I'm so excited about it. And I love that everybody's gonna get to hear your amazing music.

Chris Hajian (46:22)
Wow, I'm so... You're doing this, you can't even...

Well, that's okay. I love doing it. you know, part of my journey in life as a musician composer is just always supporting our friends and what they do. So I had a blast and I love, I'm not gonna spill all the beans on the style that people just hear it, guess, right? But I love how you, like you kind of knew the sound you wanted and it was just really fun to do. And I think it's hopefully pop. People are gonna be like, cool. Yeah, I'm down with this. Yeah, yeah. So that's great. It's so much fun to do.

Eileen Kelly (46:46)
Yeah.

It absolutely pops. Yeah.

⁓ thank you so much, Chris. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for sharing your gifts with us and your insight. And now your music forever, because this is the new theme song.

Chris Hajian (47:11)
Thank you, think let's take it. Bye.

Eileen Kelly (47:13)
Okay,