Hitting Rock Bottom With Nikki Mammano: Making The Best Of Bad Situations

Eileen invites Nikki Mammano, author of Breaking Good to the show. Without spoiling the memoir the two discuss addiction, drug abuse, bad decisions, and even worse consequences. A harrowing and suspenseful glimpse in time that reminds us that sometimes breaking completely is the only way to become whole. 

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www.nikkimammano.com

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Transcript

Eileen Kelly (00:00)
I address that as well. mean, work in progress here and we will always be doing the work. But I had to stop running and I had to stop using and...

again, also the breaking and the breaking open, like I had to break completely. that's where I kind of found the grace.

Eileen Kelly (00:38)
Welcome to Strangers with Kittens. I'm Eileen Kelly and I'm really happy that you're here and I'm excited about this week's episode. Before we get to that, if you're watching, if you happen to be watching on YouTube, I have this sign made up which is just a placeholder for something cool and ⁓ perhaps neon or backlit. I'm not really sure. I've searched around a bit online and trying to...

connect with a sign maker who could do something cool with this. But until then, I just tried this poster just to kind of get a feel for things. If you have any opinions about, I don't know, cool signs you've seen, some suggestions, they would be welcome. Leave a message on the answering machine at strangerswithkittens.com or shoot me an email. ⁓ Hello at strangerswithkittens.com.

But back to this week's show. So I get the privilege of introducing you to a really phenomenal human. She's just come out with her first book, a memoir called Breaking Good. This book is one that everyone should read and that's not hyperbole. I saw myself in it, I saw loved ones in it, I saw strangers that I...

or ignored in it because this is a story of being a normal kid in the New York and New Jersey area and suffering abuse and trying to push through and have a normal life and go to college and

get involved in drugs and become one of the most successful drug dealers in Hawaii and face prison and then homelessness and then prostitution and somehow come out of all of this as just an incredible, generous light of a person with two children and

a life that most people would covet in a lovely suburb of Manhattan and write a book about it. So when I tell you that you needed to read this book, you need to read this book. It's funny, it's heartbreaking, it's harrowing. There were moments I needed to take breaks just because I...

you really feel like you're on this ride with her. But then couldn't wait to get back to it. It's really something.

And now here's my conversation with author, Nikki Mamano.

Eileen Kelly (03:39)
Strangers with kittens. I'm Eileen Kelly.

Nikki Mamano. Hey. Woo. Very excited. We were just discussing something called the sneaky lift. We were. For those of you at home that are also struggling with like, you ever just like sit and pull your face up in the mirror and you're like, there I am. Now I'm gone. There I am. In true Gen X fashion.

It's like we swore we wouldn't give a shit about this shit. Now we're like, yeah, now I'm like, how tight can I make this whole video? Can pull my whole face up? Yeah, so anyway, we're just talking about something apparently called a sneaky lift. That sounds really good. The sneaky lift. If we decide to venture into sneaky lift territory, we'll report back. We will get back to you on that.

But really, we're not here to talk about facelifts. We're here to talk about Nikki's amazing new memoir called Breaking Good. You guys, I read a lot of books. This is the best book I've read in such a long time. It's so real. It's so...

It's dark, it's funny, it's heartbreaking, it's so accessible. just, was so moved by it and I felt like I was living it with you, but in the safety of my home. Which is a bonus when you read this book, you'll see why. But I just.

I'm just amazed by how resilient you are, how you came through this, like you're not just surviving, you're thriving, and you wrote this memoir that can help so many people and that...

will help anyone because all of us know or have been the person who struggled with addiction, struggled with trauma, struggled with family dysfunction.

you make it all so understandable and human and you

gave language to things that I had never seen someone give language to and it was things that I struggled with in my own life growing up and then you named it and you explained it and I was like oh my god yes yeah yeah I mean thank you so much um you know first of all I wrote the book so that because you said you felt like you were on the adventure and that's exactly what I set out to do I wanted to take people by the hand and um them literally to feel like they

experiencing what addiction was like, what living on the streets was like, what trauma was like and grappling with that and all of that. So that's exactly what I wanted to do. And you know it seems like one of the great themes of my life is picking myself up off the floor. so as you said, yeah and then you know it's as that is a recurring theme in the book. But yeah I really tried to dig deep and

put words to these feelings that took me down that road in the first place and what it was like to be there and then coming out of it and doing the work of trying to have a life, trying to bring myself back to life. And so that's really was my intention. And I'm really glad. A lot of the feedback I've been getting is that people, similar to what you just said, that they really feel like they were given

words to understand the feelings that they've had. I'm so honored that it's resonated with people and that they're able to connect with it. How does it feel to be talking about some, I know you've done like book clubs, you've done other interviews.

And writers go on podcasts, and writers go to book clubs, and they talk about their work. But your work is so deeply personal and painful that it's just a whole other level to talk about. ⁓ Yeah. It was a process. The book has taken about 10 years to write. It started with recording.

thoughts and ideas and memories that I had and I did that for a while before I ever started doing anything else and then I you know put it down and started to write and the writing process itself was cathartic and a lot easier early on when it didn't feel as real you know because I did I had decided when I was going to do this that I was going to do it authentically and real and truthful and either I was going to do that or I wasn't going to do it at all.

So that was the choice I made and so I went for it 100 percent. Originally doing it and writing it down was an experience of getting it out. And then I think as it went on and it became more real, that's when I sort of had that like...

you know, what did I do? I just shared, you know, the most intimate details of my life and the processes and how I think and, you know, and, ⁓ you know, and all that. And it wasn't easy. I had to go through a moment where I had to kind of accept that. And I did eventually come to a place of radical acceptance and a place of being totally okay and feeling free. But it did. It took a minute to get there. And now I'm so grateful.

that I did and I'm so grateful that people are coming to me and saying, feel that too or we trust you because of your honesty or we could relate to the things that you said in the book and that, it makes it all worth it. Like I'm so happy I did that. I love that. I'm so heartened that it's been.

considerably received. Yeah, yeah, because you roll the dice. You're really exposing yourself and hope.

see you and accept you and see themselves in you. Because we really, if we're honest, we're all

each other. Yeah, yeah. And we all got stuff, you know, and I'm a dice roller. I always have been as you you read in the book. Like so, you know, so this was like my final. I was like, let's see what happens. Let's see what happens. I don't think that it's your final roll. No, yeah, I guess so. That's true. That's true. But it was a big one. It's a big one. ⁓ So I just kind of like was like, hey, listen, this is the way I'm to do it. And I did it. And, you know, it turned out, you know, so far really great.

It's so good.

out the reading glasses.

some favorite passages or some things that

really wanted to share.

But one thing that I thought would be of particular

is Nikki says our boomer parents were taught that family ties confer some kind of irrevocable state of grace toxic and abusive behavior may not be okay

but you're expected to forgive it or at the very least let it slide because it's family and that's what you do. And our parents had bought into that hype like their parents before them and their parents before them. And then Gen X came along and said, no, that's bullshit. No one, even a relative, especially a relative, should get a free pass for hurting you.

And I like had to stop when I read that because I was like a fucking man. Yeah Yeah, it's um, it's such you know an important thing for me to put into words and to put out there and to be able to express and I think for gen xers I think we understand the the generations above us just put up with stuff and and let stuff slide and you know, they were kind of stuck in that place of just accepting everything and I think we kind of were able to say no

that's not okay. We want to be treated better. We deserve to be treated better and take our power back. for me, experiencing that moment and understanding that well before I ever put that down in the book was just such a pivotal point in my healing to take my power back and to start to love myself and respect myself. And I think it's so important. And I think, ⁓ you know, and what I've heard not only from you, but, but, you know, what I'm hearing is that, you know, Gen Xers especially,

are resonating with it. I think that leaves space for us to, when we take a step back and we take care of ourselves and we kind of take our power back, we can also understand more. We can kind of see what happened in the generations above us and kind of understand it. It doesn't mean we have to forgive. It doesn't mean we have to forget. It's everyone's journey. It's everyone's personal journey. And I stand by that. And people see in the book my journey and where I landed and where I continue to land. I still, aside from

where I landed, respect everyone's decision because it's so personal, but it does give people and readers in general the ability to kind of take a broader look and understand what's been going on for generations before, and that's generational trauma. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that looking at, I mean, it's very important.

wasn't until I started working on my memoir really helped me stop and say, wait, my mom made some messed up choices, but why? Yeah. And I hadn't asked that question before. Yeah. And it's important to ask that question. It's important to understand and see. But it still doesn't mean we have to accept it.

you know, it just gives us a wider lens, it gives us more understanding, and in some cases more compassion. And it also depends on the person on the other side, know, that's receiving that compassion or that understanding. It's a two-way street.

well, and just continuing on a few lines down from what I just read, you say some degree of accountability and genuine contrition is the bare minimum required. So just to your point about it depends on who's on the other side. It depends on the circumstance, right? Like that, that's a part of it too. You know, you're not required to forgive someone that doesn't even.

apologize or ask for forgiveness or you know, yeah, it depends and or maybe you maybe you want to regardless of whether they do or not because you want to free yourself like everyone has to make that decision so important and that's why I say like this is my journey and this is where I landed and I wanted to show everything but it really is so personal to everyone involved, you know and and and full respect for anyone's decisions. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you talk about

⁓ it's family so you just have

You know, and I don't know if, you know, I do think that Gen X is the one that really started with I'm not buying into that. And I've thought of it often and I wondered, was it the fact that we were so feral and were able to develop our own?

thoughts and opinions about things like we had so much time alone or with just with other kids that we could really think about things versus having a parent at home all the time like just keeping you under their thumb was it the music and how expressive it was and how what a big part of our lives music was and and you know television and mtv and all of that

Probably both, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's definitely those. I think it was that we were feral. I think we had different kind of culture than the generation before us. I also think we were the first generation that really dove into therapy. And we have all of these, you know, spiritual people that have come up and have taught us things to look at ourselves. And so, you know, that's added to the mix. And then also we have the generation below us. I mean, the generation below us are so much more in their power even than we are.

So we're seeing the generation below us and their power. We are taking back our power. We're all theropized and working on ourselves. And millennials and Gen Z are really inspiring. know, like sometimes, you know, whether it's a millennial friend or like my daughter and her friends, like they'll say something. And I'm just like.

Yeah, my kids are my greatest teachers. And every day, all the time, even when I don't expect it, I'm grateful for that. And they have taught me so much and it has helped me. It really has helped me to find myself and find my voice. It's funny, my daughter was three years old.

I was sitting on the floor with her and we were kind of like at face level, like I was sitting on my legs.

My dad was just, I can't tell you what he was saying, but it was, he could be like negative and very critical. Like his attitude was like, if I don't tell you, you look horrible, then assume that you look okay. You And he wouldn't pay anybody a compliment. wouldn't, you know, he was always like writing you about something. And I think sometimes, like, I think most of the time he thought he was being funny, but it was just like mean. And,

So she was three years old and my dad was saying something to me, but I was so used to it that it kind of rolled off my back. Like I didn't really register, but I'm sure it did somewhere. And I was like looking at him sitting on the sofa as he's just like razzing me about something. And my daughter took my, sorry, my daughter took my face and her pudgy little hands and like turned it to her.

round little face and she goes, don't listen to him. Yeah, no. She like looked right in my eyes and I was like, ⁓ shit. Right, healing right there. Like one second. Yeah. It was so, she was three and it was obvious to her that this was toxic and not okay. Yeah, because it's normalized. my gosh, you're right. Yeah, I think a big thing about the generation above us and the generation before is that they hid insults in jokes.

And so it's like, we're just kidding. It's like, no, no. If you're insulting someone, you're hurting someone, it's not a joke. And they did not understand that, at least from my experience. And then, yeah, my kids, too, they just know the truth. And for us, that was normalized. And so we do a lot of the breaking of things that we saw in our generation. And believe me, my kids are going to do a lot more breaking than I even have, breaking of cycles than I'm even able to do. But for us, and for me, even so many of the themes in the book were so normalized.

that we don't see it and when they see it and they open our eyes to it it's like my god right like it's so clear what was I but we were taught the whole different way of thinking and feeling and you're right when you said somewhere inside even if it doesn't register because somewhere inside it does hit and it does hurt yeah and it does hurt yep yep and that's why our generation is saying no more I think and it's so funny because I feel like our generation

And I know you're, you know, we're very similar in this way. Like our generation is on the one hand,

tough and we're glad we're tough, right? Like we've done gone through stuff and it's, you know, I kind of feel like if I had to do over again, would I not go through some of the traumas I went through? No, because they made me who I am. They did make me tough and they also made me a better parent because I'm better able to protect my kids. I know what's up and I can

protect my kids from it, you know, And there's a lot, there are a lot of sort of war stories. mean, yours are like above and beyond where there's like, it's funny and it's dark and, you know, we made the best of bad situations. And where it's kind of like a badge of honor, but at the same time, if anybody was ever to be like, would you like.

Would you be cool with your daughter going through that? It's like, no way. I know. I'm like, can't. Where are you going from point A to point B? we were, forget about it, doing things that, and I'm sure that they've done things, you know, all the generations have their moments, but we were doing the most insane, crazy shit. you know, it's like, I saw that thing. I saw something recently. Someone was doing a funny TikTok thing and they were like, you know, our parents had to be reminded. Remember that? Like, you know, it's 10 p.m.

Do you know what your children are? It's like you're being reminded by someone who's out of his mind on second Alex right now or whatever. You know what mean? It's there are irresponsible people that running around. I know. know. And we were just, yeah, and we were out there doing the craziest shit. And it did. It like it did make us tough. And I have this, I do. I have this very tough side of me that's like, no, I survived that shit, you know? And I can turn it on again in a half a second. Yeah, exactly. But it's not always on.

It's like as we get older we kind of go, it's there. It's there. It's good to know. Yeah. Right. But at the same time, there is a part of me that worries about younger generations because it's like, are they going to have that tiger in the back room if they need the tiger? hopefully they won't. Yeah. Hopefully they won't. I do think because of the generation and because of what they've experienced,

as far as what they're learning and seeing

us and just from society, they do have a smarts about them. They do. They do. Like my kids are like on it with stuff and I'm like. And

They honor their gut feelings. Like if something doesn't sit right with them, they're like, nope, not doing that, not going there, not walking down that street. Totally. they trust themselves. Yes, and making better decisions than I ever made. But I think that our generation was taught

especially women anyway, were taught to not trust themselves. It was like forced to go give that uncle a hug or go, know, whatever it was, was like men telling you to smile it was just like a comedy, comedy, a comedy. Make everyone else comfortable. Which I know you go into in detail. Yeah, to an extreme level. Yeah. when I realized that, boy, was that painful.

But I was just, that taking of my power back and that growth there was just enormous. Yeah, being able to say, I'm not doing that. No, I don't want to. Yeah, we definitely weren't able to do that when we were younger. No? Yeah. And I think raising kids that when they say no and we say, okay, that's like huge. Yeah, I'm so grateful. them agency over themselves, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

being a Jersey girl, I loved...

I loved knowing exactly what you were referring to. no, being able to, and I think as a writer, for me anyway, this was a challenge is putting the reader in a time period and a place. Like really dropping them in to

like 1989 or, know, and, and where you are in the world and you did it so beautifully. mean, in Rockland County, in Hawaii, I really felt like I was there with you and,

it was particularly fun for me being from very close to where you Yeah. I mean, the Bergen County stuff was fun, too, because it was like trans-ams and, you know, mullets and mustaches and hairspray and, you know, the wine coolers and stuff like that. I like, that is classic, you know, and, you know, with the music and you just put a little music in there and a little wine cooler and, you know, peach fuzz mustache. You're like, OK, I know exactly. Yeah.

I'm right back there. can smell the wine cold. Right. So classic. Yeah. It was so fun. And I feel like, I mean, I know that we're from this area, but I feel like it was probably pretty similar. Yeah. those places in America at that time. Yeah. The 80s. that's, quintessential 80s. That's why I felt so much like I was on this ride with you.

because there was so much that was familiar. And then when things really start to get out of control and take a darker, more serious turn, was like, you did such a brilliant job of making it feel like this could be me so easily. This could have been me. Thank you. I think that

that is such a gift to every reader is to feel the humanity and to feel like a couple of different turns in your life and things could be very different. Like you're not...

above anybody. You're not below anybody. We're just all doing the best we can with what we've got and, you know, there's no judgment. Yeah, I mean, the some of the best feedback that I've gotten is that there's people that have never been around addicts before, never knew someone that was in prison, you know, never knew a homeless kid, and they've come to me, different people, and said, I now

more compassion, I now have more empathy, I now have more understanding, and I want to do more. I want to be more present and I want to be less judgmental. And to me, that's like one of the reasons I wrote the book. You know, to put my life out there like that so honestly and so raw, I definitely had a vision of letting people in so that they could connect and understand and we can all kind of be here together, you know, in the same place, in the same space, because really it's true.

You know, it could have happened to anyone, the trauma could have happened, the veering off the path of life could have happened, and we're all just doing our best. And I do, you know, I wrote a post on Facebook.

an almost sexual assault, like an unpleasant experience that I got out of, that this person then went on to do other things that other girls weren't able to get away from. I just kind of wrote it kind of off the cuff.

you know, put my phone down and walked away and the next thing I knew I was getting DMs from people who first of all, like it was barely a blip in my life compared to some other stuff that had happened. it didn't, it wasn't like people were like, my God, I'm so sorry that happened to you. And I was like, it's okay. Like it was no big deal at all. But, ⁓ but I was getting DMs.

about things that had happened to other people, either at the hands of this person or just in general. Yeah. and they had never told anyone, you know, and they were my age and me just sharing that small anecdote made them feel safe enough to

open up and talk about something that had happened to them when they were 14, 15, 16 years old. And I can only imagine with how...

forthcoming you are about your story, how many people must feel connected to you and feel like you've created this space for them. Yeah, I mean, we were just talking about

we were shut down and taught to stuff things and to not talk about things. And here we are starting these conversations. I very much want this to be what Breaking Good brings and what we all start doing. So I'm...

so open to it and I appreciate it when people trust me with their stuff as well, you know, because I put it out there, here we are, let's have these conversations, let's talk about it. No one's not welcome, we're all here just trying to heal and grow and have a life, right? Slice out a little, carve out a little piece of life and so for me it's an honor. And you know, I just, I appreciate it so much and I appreciate the vulnerability.

of people that come and say, yeah, I want to talk about this or this happened to me too. It's like, let's connect. Absolutely, let's connect. It's important. It really is.

it touches on so many things. It touches on addiction, it touches on abuse, it touches on prison and our court systems and rehabilitation and just people, you know, like

how we judge, how we categorize people. Myself included, all of us do it. We just do it. It's the way our minds work, right? We figure out, you know, with this person, would I have anything in common with this person? Yes, no, like our mind is constantly making snap judgments. And we're really so much closer to each other than, I mean.

like we're at war right now, you know, we are bombing people that are just like us, that are in their homes, in their schools, in hospitals, and they're getting bombed. so I feel like when you read a story that bridges a gap between the reader and the person whose story this is,

it makes everyone feel closer. Yeah, you know,

there are so many people that have come up to me or text me or called me and said, you know, they feel like everyone in the world should read the book and experience the things in there. And I said when I was writing it, and even when I was talking to my agent early on, we're like, there is something here for everyone. You know, there is prison and prostitution and homelessness and addiction and abuse, generational trauma.

And soccer moms and sacks. Exactly. It's relatable for everyone. then also, if someone who read it didn't experience these things themselves, which I've also heard that too, they know someone or they're connected to someone or they know someone who knows someone or they've seen it somewhere in their life. And even though earlier I said people have come up to me and said I really haven't had those experiences and they haven't directly.

and it's given them more understanding of life. But everyone is somehow, you know, is connected somewhere to addiction, to trauma. And so, there really is something in there for everyone and it does really bring people together. I'm so, happy that that is one of the things that's happening with Breaking Good.

I think one thing that it's reminded me of is...

Always asking the why underneath what they see, right? People can walk past a homeless person, walk past an addict and feel a little unsafe, feel maybe annoyed, feel compassion.

but maybe you're also scared, but definitely feel distance. And maybe for a lot of people, judgment comes out. Why did you let it get to this point? Why would you make the choices you did to end up where you are now? asking yourself, like, what...

happened to this person that caused this. This is not something that anyone chooses voluntarily, right? for sure. You phrased it so beautifully and this was one of those moments for me where it really gave language to...

What I'd felt is I spent so long beating myself up, feeling that even at my best, my kindest, my most generous, there was something inherently wrong with me, something dark that could never be good. I never understood that everything screwed up about me was a result of what had been done to me. I hadn't been born wrong. I'd been done wrong.

Yeah, most often by the people I trusted. Yeah ⁓ I had been done wrong and you know, was such when you know putting that in the book and that whole ending was very important for me to just kind of lay it all out, put words again to things that I wanted people to have, you know, words for but also to show exactly the process that I went through to finally be able to open up and start the healing. And I remember, talking to my therapist at some point early on and I was like

I'm a bad person, I've done this, I've done this. And she's like, there was no other way your life was gonna go. Like, you were set up for this life, it was never gonna go any way else. you know, like, not like you have to, didn't say you have to, but like, what I got was like, let it go. You gotta let it go, didn't, you're not bad, you're not wrong. And so, you know, that is such an important thing for people to know that are struggling, especially people that have gone off the rails.

and feel like they're bad and they deserve to be punished. And I try to even address that in the last sentence, the last few words. It's like, you know, I cut that bitch a break because she deserves it. We all do. We all do. You know, and we've all been through pain, but yet to your point of other people seeing it from the outside, I talk about that in the book also where I go back to Hawaii and there I am, this mom, and I've got my stuff together, and what would they think?

if they remembered that I was ⁓ right there, that same place, that same person, but a strung out homeless prostitute. And there would have been judgment. And not only would there have been judgment there, but sometimes people didn't even look at us. We were like kids on the street and panhandling and people would walk by as if we didn't exist.

There's a whole world out there, you know, like we just got to open our eyes and exactly what you said, like where did we come from? Where did I come from that drove me to make those decisions? Right, that's not something that you do voluntarily for no reason. Yeah, exactly. And the thing is...

When your life is like, yeah, we have, you know, our somewhat minor challenges or sort of run-of-the-mill things, but when you're basically getting like a root canal daily.

You need to numb it, right? Like there's a reason that the dentist gives you Novocaine and laughing gas and whatever else. And when, when that's your life, then you have, then you find a way to numb it. Right? Yeah, absolutely. You find whatever Novocaine is available to you because otherwise you won't survive. and you know, those, and I put this, there's another scene in the book, but those drugs absolutely saved my life. And I don't say that to, to use at all, please. it would take, took me to places I, I,

I should have never gone. It makes you vulnerable, unfortunately, to predators. Yeah, no, no, no. But at certain times, I needed that. I needed that salve. I needed that to keep going. Right. Yeah. And to get to where I finally was able to stop and take a look. And I say that also. At some point, you've got to turn around and stare those demons down. And that's a really hard thing to do. And that takes, you know...

You gotta be sober and you gotta want it. ⁓ But you know, I think we all get to that point at some time, hopefully that breaking point where we wanna make changes and we wanna have a life. That's the hope. That's the hope that I always had for myself, although I couldn't always grasp it and that's the hope I have for everyone else. And the hope too that they have enough self love to feel that they deserve that. Yeah.

And yeah, and I don't, you know, that's a hard one for me because I for a long time didn't have it at all. And I didn't even know what that was. But you know, it's the only way that I found it and I'm still working on it.

I address that as well. mean, work in progress here and we will always be doing the work. But I had to stop running and I had to stop using and...

again, also the breaking and the breaking open, like I had to break completely. that's where I kind of found the grace.

Yeah, and you know people talk about

I for people that love addicts, it's so frustrating because it can feel like, it's like, isn't this the bottom? And it's not for them. And you think how much worse could it get? How much lower do you have to sink? And it's terrifying and sometimes...

Sometimes they sink to the absolute lowest and you never get them back, you know, and you just hope that They come back up before it's too late. Yeah, I mean, but you know, it's the trauma and the pain and you know as until We're ready to face the trauma until we're ready to face the pain. It's really hard to continue we can try and I did and

for a long time, I got sober and I did my thing, but I didn't do that work and I didn't want to really look at my demons and we have to look at those. You know, it's the only way to, for me, I'm going to say for me, to stay sober, but also have a life. You know, we can get clean, but you know, until we really take a look at what put us down that road in the first place, it's really hard to have a full life where we can, you know, enjoy and, be present.

It's such an important part of the journey. ⁓

Yeah, I think there are a lot of people of our generation who, you we were all so...

separate, you know, and not that kids and teenagers and young adults can't be closed off now, but I think because of social media they see so many stories and they have people sharing their experiences that it doesn't feel as I know, I hope, the hope is that

kids who are going through abuse, are dealing with trauma, that they can't, you know, if their parents aren't protecting them or their parents are harming them or someone in their house is harming them.

that they have somewhere to turn. Whereas in our generation, it felt like you are 100 % on your own. And also because I feel like we had to be so tough, you know, like at school and on the way to school and on the way home from school and you know, And it was a different time. Like no one was looking. I remember I can look back now and I remember

I there were signs, there were things like I went to the nurse's office every day and I tried to get someone to notice here and notice here and no one was looking then. And I think if that was happening today, it would be a lot different. 100%. Yeah, and mean, there's still plenty of abuse going on and things, we're seeing it in the world every day. Unfortunately, we're seeing way too much of it right now. ⁓ And there's just evils that are happening, but we are more aware.

And we're proactively trying to do things about it. And back when we were younger, in the 70s, 80s, even early 90s, that wasn't happening. was all... No, and I think it felt like it was just you. Yeah. You're right. You had no exposure to anyone else's story that wasn't pretty perfect, that wasn't an 80s sitcom. Yeah. So it felt like...

it's you, you're the only one. also,

keep it to yourself and portray strength, right? Because if you did show your weaknesses, oftentimes you were made to regret it, you know? Because it really was kind of dog and dog. No, it was, was in getting down and dirty in the schoolyard. It was, it really was. And like, I knew a kid who shared that he was gay with his friend and his friend and...

Yeah, yeah, that was definitely the times. you didn't, you weren't vulnerable. If you were, you paid for it. Yeah. yeah. No, definitely. And even, you know, being gay, I mean, I remember in high school and then, you know, I graduated in 91. So I was in high school, late eighties, early nineties. And, you know, you just didn't, there was like very few kids that were out, very few. And, now I look back and I know there's more people in my school or around me.

that were gay and I was, ⁓ but it wasn't, ⁓ no one, you shouldn't talk about it. Kept it in. way. Yeah. And really for your safety, you know? Yeah,

So just going back to Gen X and like this, we have this like dichotomy of being.

kind of taking pride in being a bit of a badass and then also being like, no, I do not want my kids to live my, do half the things that I did or 90 % of the things that I did. But it's gotta be hard to be a suburban mom, on the...

fundraising committee for like the third grade, And have like A personality moms bossing you around or this whole committee thing and people getting all worked up about some small element of fundraising in elementary school and you being like.

Bitches! Drug kingpin in Hawaii! No. No, it's funny though, because I always wanted to just fly under the radar. Like, was so happy to be in suburbia. I was so happy to not be dumpster diving. You know, it's like to have a house and an SUV and my kids and, you know, I just wanted to fly under the radar. I was a worker bee. So just always tell me what you want me to do. I'll do it. And ⁓ I addressed that in the book, you know, where it's like I'm at cupcake sales and PTA things. And I'm like, all right, wait, got to go now.

I gotta go pee in a cup so that I don't go back to prison. ⁓ But I figured it out. I mean, it wasn't always easy to, ⁓ you know, make sense and ballot. Yeah, like kind of, you know, make sense of everything and live in the world that I was in and also coming from the other world. But I really was and still am. But mostly, back then just happy.

to be where I was, to not be struggling, not be in pain, not be living on the streets, to not be addicted to a substance. So I loved it. And yeah, so my stories were a little racier. And sometimes I would dip in a little piece of it, depending on who I was talking to.

And they just be like, was like, just kidding.

I think I kind of took that and put it to the side. I did what I had to do and kind of just, you know, lived in the world I was in. I mean, I know, I knew where I came from. I knew that a few years earlier I'd been in prison. I knew that a few years earlier I was on the streets and, you know, all that stuff. But I really tried to assimilate and be grateful and joyous and...

you know, I was just happy to be there. Happy to be a part of. Yeah. And the thing with the kids is kind of hysterical because of like how it's like I had to eventually tell my kids what was in the book, of course. Like there's things I probably would have never told them. But hey, I wrote a book. So like I got to tell you my older one, I was able to tell a little earlier and a little more detailed. And my younger one, who's now older, graduating college, you I had to kind of, you know.

piece it out a little bit, but it's kind of funny because, know, especially after they knew some stuff, it's like, no, you cannot be out past 12. And they look at me like, you know, I need to know where you are. And, you know, when are you coming home? It's like, you have even more. Yeah, because it's like, no, know firsthand. Yeah, craziness that exists. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But, you know, I I, yeah, just wanted to want them to be safe and happy and

not do anything that I did.

so much of your experience to motherhood in a way that was positive and constructive. you know, again, we're not even six degrees separated from each other, you know, we're really not. yeah, I mean, I did the best I could. And I think I did I did really good for what I was given,

I'm just their mom, you know, like, they don't care that I wrote a book, they don't care about the other stuff, you know,

But there is something really nice about just being like, yeah, I'm just going to nurture you and you're a place to land and the other stuff is the other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I have all those experiences and they'll never really know what it's like to be in those experiences, but also thank God. Thank God. You know, thank God. And they have their own.

and I talk about them in the book, was very important for me to talk about them, was very important for me to validate their experiences. Because there were times, and you'll read in the book, and we were trying to balance not giving too much of away, but giving enough, but there were times where I made mistakes, due to me not dealing with my stuff, and really hurt them. And as we do, as parents, no excuse, but...

I really wanted to validate that for them and you know, they're just terrific. I'm just so proud of them, the people that they are and who they're becoming and grateful. You did a great job. do as parents is the best we can with what we've got and all of the stuff that, you know, where we mess up. Yeah.

And I think that, you know, my girls came in with some really amazing qualities. And like I said earlier, have taught me so much. I'm just, I'm in awe of who they are and what they know. yeah, just extremely proud of them. Yeah. I'm lucky, very lucky.

Yeah, well we're very lucky. We're very lucky that you shared your story with us.

available for all of us because there are many books that I really feel like everyone should read and everyone will get something out of and everyone will enjoy. It's so beautifully written if you're someone who really likes writing and likes language you're going to enjoy it. If you like

kind of a twisty-turny story, it's here. If you like a story of redemption, if you like underdog stories, it's here. It's just, it really, has something for everyone. Breaking Good by Nikki Mamano. Go out and grab it. You won't be sorry. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Fun as always.

So fun. Taking it back. All right. Talk to you next week.