Hey Mama, You're Doing Great

This one is for the moms. Join Eileen and special guest Audra Socinski while they hash out motherhood. In celebration of Mother's Day, this episode recognizes all the bits of motherhood, including the moments that nearly knock you out. Moms are constantly told to "enjoy it" but if we are being honest, this job is pretty freaking hard to enjoy most of the time. So this year, we are skipping the flowers, the cards, and the macaroni necklaces. This year, we want honest conversations about parenting, and a couple of compliments.  

Transcript

Audra Socinski (00:00)
it's made us much more aware of how hard parenting can be and how hard motherhood can be and honoring that, but then also putting us in a place where it's like, shit, how much am I fucking up? How much am I? Yes.

Eileen Kelly (00:14)
Yeah, competitive motherhood in some ways, you know,

Eileen Kelly (00:38)
Hey, I'm Eileen Kelly. Welcome to Strangers with Kittens. I'm really glad you're here on this Mother's Day edition of Strangers with Kittens. I feel like Mother's Day can be a tricky day for a lot of people. It seems maybe very straightforward kind of Hallmark holiday in a lot of ways, but I went through six and a half years of infertility before I was able to have kids and I, in the midst of all that, also lost my mother.

to cancer and so it can be a complicated and difficult day for a lot of women, for women who thought they'd be mothers and it didn't work out, for women who are mothers and are struggling.

for those of us who've lost our mothers. I just want to send out a big hug to all of you because it's not easy at this stage of the game, right? There's a lot of life that's happened to us and it affects days like this and old wounds can reopen and...

You know, it can be complicated and we, you know, get our cards and flowers and smile and it is a really happy day for me in many ways, but it's complicated. You you don't get to be this age and not have complex feelings about a lot of things because we've had a lot of experience. So I'm wishing

all women who mother, which I think is just about every woman, a happy Mother's Day.

My guest today is a millennial. I thought it would be interesting to talk to a millennial mom because I feel like there are things that we can learn from each other and things that different generations of moms do differently. But most of all, I want to talk to a younger mom because I feel like it's really important.

to support each other, because motherhood isn't easy. It can be really, really challenging at times, and I don't think that's acknowledged often enough, at least not by our generation and the generations of women that have come before us. I think that we were pressured into pretending that it was the be all end all and that everything was awesome all the time.

I do feel like millennials and forward women are more honest about the complexities of motherhood. And they're not afraid to say, I'm having a really terrible day and I don't feel like I'm cut out for this and not be ashamed of it. I feel like there was so much

shaming of mothers in, the silent generation, the boomer generation, and maybe a little less so, but still Gen X. So I want to talk to a younger mom who I hope I've influenced. used to babysit for my family and is now,

married and has children of her own and is a mom and an autism specialist.

Eileen Kelly (03:50)
And I think a Gen X mom and a millennial mom have a lot to talk about.

so let's get to it. Welcome Audra Sosinski.

Eileen Kelly (04:01)
So we have a lot, we have a lot to talk about on this Mother's Day, you know, Strangers with Kittens episode. ⁓

Audra Socinski (04:04)
I know.

Yeah,

happy early Mother's Day to you and all those listening.

Eileen Kelly (04:14)
Happy,

early Mother's Day, my favorite day of the year. It really is. It's not like I ever do anything that big, but it was such a long and bumpy road for me to get to motherhood that I could just like do, well, doing nothing actually is pretty fantastic when you're a mother, but I could just do whatever and it's, happy because every year I'm kind of like,

Audra Socinski (04:20)
Yeah

Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (04:41)
As hard as motherhood is, I will say every year it makes me think like, wow, I thought for a long time I'd never be here. Yeah.

Audra Socinski (04:49)
Be a mom. Yeah.

Well, I will say it's quite fitting that you asked me to be on this one because even though, I think I've told you this before, but I'm going to remind you that you were the person that really taught me most about motherhood in my adult 20 years. Like, obviously I learned a bunch from my own mother growing up, ⁓ her as my mom, but watching your kids and being with your kids as many years as I was, like I, that's when I learned the most about

Eileen Kelly (04:55)
Thank

Bye.

Right.

Audra Socinski (05:17)
how to be a mom and watching you be a mom and then being like, okay, I'm gonna do that, not do that, do this, do this, all the things. And so was like, ⁓ she's really the person that taught me the most about motherhood before I became a mom. So yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. And I think a lot about that, like those years of, know, quote unquote, raising kids that aren't on my own, but still being in like the day to day with them.

Eileen Kelly (05:29)
Aww, that's so sweet, thank you. That means a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Audra Socinski (05:47)
Although I

will say it was way easier with your kids than it is with my own kids.

Eileen Kelly (05:50)
It's always

easier with someone else's kids than it is with your own mothers. Always remember that because sometimes it really feels like, especially if a friend or a relative watches your child and they're like, they were so good and it was so easy and it was so whatever. And there's always that voice in the back of your head that's like, what am I doing wrong? Why do I find it so difficult?

Audra Socinski (05:54)
So much easier.

Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (06:15)
Why can't I find as much joy? Because you do it 364 days out of the year and this person came or maybe, you know, maybe they come more often than that, but the dynamics not the same, you know, and it's not and it's a it's a treat for them. I remember watching my nieces and nephews and it was so much fun because I got to go home. Not that you don't want to be with them, but it's like I'm not there for the really tough.

Audra Socinski (06:27)
Totally.

Eileen Kelly (06:44)
times, you know?

Audra Socinski (06:44)
Yeah, yeah.

Well, you reminded me of that early on in motherhood when I think we were having this conversation and I said it felt so much easier when I was with your three, because I was with your three kids alone.

Cause that was the babysitter. And ⁓ then I became a mom. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (06:58)
Right. I'd be working upstairs or

yeah, usually I'd be up in the attic working.

Audra Socinski (07:06)
Yeah, I became a mom and I remember having this conversation with you and just being like, this feels so much harder than when I was with your three kids all the time. And you reminded me that I got to go home. Like I got to go home at five or six o'clock and then I was in a quiet apartment with just my boyfriend at the time and I didn't have to do nighttime and I didn't have to do bedtime and it like.

Eileen Kelly (07:30)
And you

also, it was like double, right? You didn't have to do those things and you got to recover. You got to have your own thoughts. You got to focus on yourself. You got to be like, what do I want to eat for dinner? Instead of like scrounging macaroni cheese half the bottom of the pot.

Audra Socinski (07:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

than eating whatever's left over that your kids didn't eat. Yeah, totally.

Eileen Kelly (07:50)
Exactly. And this

weird combo of like, I'm so hungry, I'll eat anything and like, why am I gaining weight? It's like, because you're eating weird kid food that you don't even want to eat.

Audra Socinski (08:02)
Yeah, yeah,

I don't know how many chicken nuggets I eat a week, but happens every week. that was a big

Eileen Kelly (08:05)
you

Audra Socinski (08:10)
curve for me was just because I came into motherhood at 31, almost 32 with like 22 years worth of watching other people's children. Because back in the 90s, yeah, they let a 10 year old watch, you know, four kids at 10 year old.

Eileen Kelly (08:22)
Yeah, including your siblings.

Exactly. I feel

like I know you're an elder millennial, but I really feel like you're a baby Gen Xer.

Audra Socinski (08:31)
I am.

Well,

I've thought a lot about this, as I've been listening to your podcast from the beginning, is that, yes, I'm an elder or geriatric millennial, whichever you want to call it.

but I am married to a Gen Xer who is later Gen X. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (08:49)
you down

brings the darkness

Audra Socinski (08:54)
Yeah, he's nine years older than me. So he's very much a latchet. He was a very much latchkey kid, Gen Xer, grew up in New Jersey, just like you. So like, whenever I listen to your stories, I'm like, yep, that was my husband. But, yeah, but as an elder millennial, there's a lot of stuff that still holds true growing up in that kind of generation. And

Eileen Kelly (09:06)
Brian I bond on these things.

Audra Socinski (09:18)
I think there's a big difference between a 1985 millennial versus a, I don't even know what it ends, 90, whatever year, but like.

Eileen Kelly (09:27)
80.

Yeah, 80 81 to 96. Huge difference between you and someone that was born in 96.

Audra Socinski (09:31)
90 something? Oh yeah, so like a 96 millennial.

Totally different. Totally different.

Eileen Kelly (09:41)
Yeah, like I feel

like the cutoffs should be different. Like I feel like we should rearrange it. And I feel like Gen X is actually a bigger generation than most of the generations. And certainly the generations that came after because that's when technology sped everything up. So it's like being born long before the iPhone or growing up with the iPhone are two very different things. Like it's

Audra Socinski (09:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

very different things.

Eileen Kelly (10:09)
cleansed culture completely.

Audra Socinski (10:11)
1000%.

Eileen Kelly (10:12)
so ⁓ we were talking a little bit before we started and I understand that your parents are gonna be moving across the street.

Audra Socinski (10:22)
My parents are gonna be moving across the street. I'm gonna be in a Ray Romano situation, right across the street. Which, so I live on a 1840s farmhouse in Vermont with a bunch of land and a bunch of barns, which is absolutely wonderful. My stepfather owned it. Yeah, it's beautiful. My stepfather owned it in the 80s and our house was always a rental. And so,

Eileen Kelly (10:43)
and beautiful.

Audra Socinski (10:51)
you know, when we thought about moving out of New Jersey and coming back up here, my husband's also from New Jersey. Yay, Jersey. He said we wanted to buy this house from them eventually. And knowing that my stepfather had just took this beautiful, it's like a 200 year old barn ⁓ and turned it into two apartments. So we knew the plan was always that my parents do just live across town, like maybe 10, 12 minutes away. We're gonna.

Eileen Kelly (10:58)
Yay! Jersey!

Audra Socinski (11:20)
sell that house because eventually, you know, it's too big for them and we're going to move into the barn right across the street. So yeah, my parents will be right across the street, which I think will be great in a lot of ways. And, you know, then potentially just like maybe too close for Comfort, who knows? And they might feel that same way about us. The grandkids run across the street every day.

Eileen Kelly (11:24)
Right.

Nice!

Yeah.

I'm

It's so true. I do think that I mean and everybody loves Raymond, right? They they were like the in-laws were very overbearing but I do think that that's Really beautiful to have family so close. I mean I never did and I really could have used it and The other thing is I think I Don't know maybe with older generations. It was more like that. But I don't know like your mom's so cool and I think

Audra Socinski (11:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, I do.

Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (12:14)
Like they've got their own stuff going on. So, I think it'll be a good balance of having each other there for support, but not codependent to the point of dysfunction.

Audra Socinski (12:16)
They do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I do think about certain things like make certain things will be easier. Like, ⁓ you know, they'll babysit for us. But sometimes we don't like we feel bad if we're out a little too late. Because even though they have to drive 10, 12 minutes home, it's still like a 10 o'clock at night, you don't necessarily want to do that. So I'm like, no, ma, you can just walk across the street. So yeah, certain things will be.

Eileen Kelly (12:39)
Right.

Yeah.

Audra Socinski (12:48)
will be nice to just have them there. We are those people that call each other up and are like, do you have some celery? like, you have frozen peas? Because in Vermont, going to the store is an event. you, it's a whole, it's not like you can just run down to, you know, stop and shop. It's like, you have to plan out your grocery shopping. Cause we live, you know, decently far from it. So this will be kind of nice. And just to be like, I need some sugar, literally. Bring some sugar over.

Eileen Kelly (12:51)
Yeah.

⁓ I love that!

Yeah.

I love that one.

Yeah,

we had one car when I was young and my mom didn't drive. I don't remember how old I was when she started driving, but we had to borrow stuff from neighbors and it connected you, you know, you kind of and you kind of keep a mental tab, I think.

Audra Socinski (13:30)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (13:34)
and be like, okay, go bring this. You know, you'd borrow milk and then a couple days later you'd have to go deliver a quart of milk to Mrs. Rooney because you borrowed a cup of it three days ago, you know? And it was nice.

Audra Socinski (13:44)
Yeah. Yeah, I have a friend. Yeah,

it's really nice. have a mom friend who lives like I could walk to her house, which in my town, like walking to someone's house is like a big deal. I don't live in a neighborhood. I live out in the country. No sidewalks. Yeah. So to be able to walk to her house is lovely. And yesterday was a workday for me and she texted me and she's like, I'm going to Trader Joe's. Do you need anything? And I was like, absolutely. need some carrots.

Eileen Kelly (13:57)
Yeah, and there's no sidewalks. It's country, country roads.

Audra Socinski (14:12)
And if you could find me some frozen cranberries for a recipe I gotta make, that'd be great. And she was like, well, I have some frozen cranberries I can just give you. I'm like, that is lovely. Thank you so much. I love that. I love that. I love the coziness and the just like being able to call a friend who lives close by and just be like, hey, instead of me going to store, do you got this thing I need? And that does feel very old school in a way.

Eileen Kelly (14:22)
I love that. Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's bring that

back. Right? Like, I know people would think I was, I did lend a lemon to an extra neighbor not too long ago and that felt good. But I mean, it was a little weird because like she texted me and was like, can I have a lemon? And I'm like, I live almost as far away from you as the supermarket up the street because it's everything so close where I live. But I loved it. I was like, yeah, I have lemons. Yeah, I feel like we need to bring that back. Don't feel weird about it.

Audra Socinski (14:39)
I know! I totally agree!

Yes.

Yeah.

I totally agree.

Eileen Kelly (15:07)
And you know, then you go to the store and you bring them two lemons when you, you know, it's just like such a nice exchange of goodwill.

Audra Socinski (15:15)
Yeah, or little things and like, I feel like this was more of a thing back in our generations. But she then called me and said, was like, she obviously was gonna bring me my food, but she was like, can my, know, can her five year old? Yeah, she's same age as my daughter. Can she jump on your trampoline for a little bit? Like it's gonna be rainy for the next few days. I'd love to get some energy out. I'm like, absolutely jump on our trampoline. Like, please come over and jump on our trampoline whenever you want. If you need to get some energy out.

Eileen Kelly (15:40)
WHAAAAT

And don't sue me if anything

happens.

Audra Socinski (15:45)
Yeah,

don't sue me. Yeah, do I need a waiver?

Eileen Kelly (15:49)
I'll just leave you to sign this release.

You'll find it online.

Audra Socinski (15:58)
⁓ man. but that just like, grew up mostly in the nineties, but I lived in a neighborhood with, a ton of houses and we were constantly in people's yards without really asking, probably not. It was just a spoken rule that like you would run through people's yards and we would bike through people's, you know, roads and bike paths and go wherever we wanted. like that

Eileen Kelly (15:58)
⁓

Right?

Right.

Audra Socinski (16:25)
felt really nice. And I'm sure for my mom that felt really nice to let us do that. And so I again, don't live in an area where I can do that. But I do appreciate just being like, Yeah, come use my stuff. Come do my come, come over here and play. Sure.

Eileen Kelly (16:41)
I think that's also more rural living too. I think that when you live more out in the country, there's just a little bit more sense of, maybe not everywhere, but a little more sense of depending on each other maybe, or being a little more connected. When you live in close proximity and in a place where there are tons of people somehow, in some ways it kind of

Audra Socinski (16:57)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (17:09)
separates you more.

Audra Socinski (17:11)
Yeah, I can, I see that. And when you have access to all the things, like if you can go to store, it's like, well, I'm not going to ask a neighbor. I'll just go to the store.

Eileen Kelly (17:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think too, when you have land and you have space, then you choose to see people. And, and then when you do see them, you know, just randomly, it's kind of a treat. Whereas when you have people right next to you, you have to maintain certain boundaries or you all kill each other. You know, there are times where I'm like, this is too close for comfort.

Audra Socinski (17:29)
more intentional.

That's fair.

Eileen Kelly (17:46)
I don't need to hear you taking your garbage out at 1130 at night. But yeah, that's the difference too. It's like, it's just, you have to kind of just be like this because there's just too many people around you.

Audra Socinski (17:48)
Yeah.

yeah, I do wonder what motherhood like had we stayed in New Jersey, like how different it might have been.

Eileen Kelly (18:08)
Yeah. I feel like your generation, which is, I'm talking about millennials, even though I do feel like you're kind of a baby Gen Xer. I feel like you're honest about motherhood and the challenges.

Audra Socinski (18:19)
Ha ha

Eileen Kelly (18:23)
And you seem to lean on each other a little bit more when it comes to just like, need a little mental health break. Can we come over with the kids just to break up the monotony and stuff? Which I feel like my generation was starting to do that, but you guys really perfected it.

Audra Socinski (18:32)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (18:42)
we still

residual shame you're supposed to just be able to handle everything.

and you're supposed to just think your kids are fantastic all the time and mothers just love their kids unconditionally and that's the end of it. And I feel like we started to be like, hey, this is hard. I'm struggling. I might need some help, but you guys really took it over the finish line. this is really freaking hard.

I'm not ashamed to say I need a break.

Audra Socinski (19:18)
Yeah, I would agree with that. going into motherhood, because I don't know, I mean, you can tell me, but I don't know like how prominent social media was when your twins were born, but.

Eileen Kelly (19:30)
Facebook

came out in 2007, so they were three.

Audra Socinski (19:34)
Okay, so you didn't have the like bombard, like being bombarded with

Eileen Kelly (19:40)
No, I mean, some people

went at it whole hog. You know, some people were like, this is great. I think I personally tend to be more, I don't know, protective is the right word, paranoid maybe, I don't know. But like, just didn't, I immediately was like, I don't know that I want images of my kids on the internet.

Audra Socinski (20:04)
yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, well, I was gonna say, I think that when you have access to...

the, well, just internet, social media, all the things that are much more vocal about motherhood. It allows you kind of to see the heart in it, right? And so I think there's, there's, for me, I think there's been a real balance between

Eileen Kelly (20:29)
yeah.

Audra Socinski (20:38)
using social media in a way that benefits me to help me feel supported in motherhood, but then also understanding

absolutely can go the opposite way, where it can make me kind of feel shitty about

the way I'm parenting. And so I remember my mom at one point saying, I don't even know what we're talking about, but and to be fair, I think when you're out of mother, out of the...

Eileen Kelly (20:54)
Yeah!

Audra Socinski (21:02)
young motherhood years, you kind of forget about maybe the hardness of it. But I do remember her saying one time, I don't remember it being this hard, right? Like when I was talking about something relating to motherhood. And I think partly that's just because now she's a grandma and she's getting the good sides of things. But also I think it was because there was less

Eileen Kelly (21:18)
Mm-hmm.

Audra Socinski (21:21)
in your face about what you should be doing or not doing or doing right or doing wrong or don't yell at your kids or, you know, make sure you're doing this, da da da. And I think for us as millennials, elder, you know, younger millennials, we've just been bombarded with so much information and so much parenting blogs and parenting accounts and looking at stories on Instagram and all the things that

I think one, yes,

it's made us much more aware of how hard parenting can be and how hard motherhood can be and honoring that, but then also putting us in a place where it's like, shit, how much am I fucking up? How much am I? Yes.

Eileen Kelly (22:08)
Yeah, competitive motherhood in some ways, you know,

Audra Socinski (22:12)
So I've had.

Eileen Kelly (22:12)
it's like, I'm

not making the special snacks that are star shaped in the you know, you wouldn't even be aware of that in your mom's generation. It's like, whatever. I'm, this is fine.

Audra Socinski (22:23)
Yeah, so I think in a positive light is, as you said, it's allowed us to be much more open about motherhood and not just fall into this oh, I have to do it all. I have to be the end all be all for my kid and make the snacks and do the things. And it's allowed us to kind of stop doing that.

Eileen Kelly (22:30)
Yeah.

Audra Socinski (22:49)
But it's also put, I think it's put a lot more pressure on us to be kind of a certain way, maybe. to like break, I'm a mental health therapist, I 1000 % support the idea of breaking generational trauma. Don't get me wrong, absolutely. And also, I think there is like, the pendulum has swung pretty far where it's like, well, if you yell at your kid, you're absolutely screwing him up. And it's like, well,

Eileen Kelly (22:56)
Yeah.

Audra Socinski (23:15)
No.

Eileen Kelly (23:16)
No. No. No!

Audra Socinski (23:22)
No, you can have a dysregulated moment and yell and then repair and your kids going to be fine.

Eileen Kelly (23:24)
That's fine

Sometimes

they need to be yelled at, you know? And I've had this conversation, like I've talked through it with my kids at times where they're like, you don't need to yell. I'm like, I said it three times in a normal tone and that didn't seem to work. So if you don't want me to yell, do it the first time.

Audra Socinski (23:32)
1000 % like.

Yeah,

I've had that conversation of so many times I've stopped counting because true. And also there needs to be some understanding there are consequences to your behavior. There are limits and there are effects that you have on people. And when you blatantly ignore people's requests, nice requests like

Eileen Kelly (23:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, and limits to...

Right.

Audra Socinski (24:12)
There's a consequence to that. I tell my son all the time, like if your boss, like when you're out working in the world, if your boss has asked you six times to do something and you don't do it, you don't have a job anymore. they're not just gonna keep asking nicely. You don't have a job. So

Eileen Kelly (24:14)
Yeah.

You just get fired. You're not doing the job. So you don't have a job. Yeah. Yeah.

Audra Socinski (24:35)
had to be really intentional with...

understanding and vocalizing that motherhood is hard to like the appropriate people, but then also being really intentional about what I intake, you know, in terms of social media or reading up on parenting books or whatever, because I don't, it's not, it's not as black and white as some people try to make it seem.

Eileen Kelly (25:02)
Right. and can get very extreme as well. And I will, I will say that when I was trying to get pregnant and then was pregnant and a new mother, I took in way too much and things that I shouldn't have and internalized things that, know, like having a birth plan and like having this, you know, it's like, there's, there's this whole, I, I, maybe it's just cause I'm out of that.

Audra Socinski (25:22)
Okay.

Eileen Kelly (25:33)
you know, part of my life. But it feels like, and I'm hoping this is true, that that has eased up. But in the early 2000s, there was a real hard push for no medical intervention and having a certain kind of birth and a perfect kind of birth. And I feel like celebrities and their pregnancies were front and center. And so a lot of women were comparing themselves to and trying to emulate these,

perfect scenarios. And do you watch the pit at all? So how are you up to date? Like have you? Yeah, and I don't want to, you know, spoil for anyone because it's still pretty new. texted a friend of mine, I'm like, are they just going through my medical chart for stories? Because like, one week it was a kid was having an asthma attack who then had a collapsed lung, who then they were going to

Audra Socinski (26:05)
Yes, love it. Yes, are you talking about your mom?

I did think of you on

that episode.

Eileen Kelly (26:26)
into being.

They ended up not for me they did but like that was a rough one to get through because I was like, ⁓ you know, like seeing it from the outside. And then there was a mom who there was a pregnant woman who was like, I'm gonna have a wild birth, which I gotta tell you, I wasn't that, you know, impractical. But

Audra Socinski (26:46)
I literally was like...

Eileen Kelly (26:53)
I was trying to have like as little intervention as possible and everything she went through was what I went through. again, I don't want to spoil it, but like, it's like, yeah, that, no.

Audra Socinski (27:10)
Yeah,

I'm really grateful that, well, to answer your question, I do think there is still some of that depending on where you live. So obviously, like I live in Vermont. There's a lot of people who, fall a little bit more on the, you know, granola side for lack of a better word, who do want, like, which is fair. Like, you know, I know a lot of moms who have had doulas and home births or water births or whatever. And if that works for you, great.

Eileen Kelly (27:32)
Right, yeah.

Audra Socinski (27:36)
So I think there's, depending on just the person, there might be a little bit more still

preference. But I am grateful that my OB in New Jersey when I had my son was, anytime I said the word birth plan, which I don't think I really had a plan. I think I was just like trying to subscribe to something. Like ideally, this is I wanna have happen. And he was like, he kept saying he would change it to birth preference every time I said plan. He's like preference, it's a preference.

Eileen Kelly (27:54)
Mm-hmm.

I

love that.

Audra Socinski (28:03)
Yeah, he

was like an older OB in his 60s. so he just kept being like, it's not going to be a plan. It's your preference. So like, if that happens, great. And if not, then that's going to be okay, too. Like the goal here is to get you through it and to get the baby through it all healthy and happy. And I was like, okay, so he really curbed my

Eileen Kelly (28:08)
He's seen it all and every wave of like trend. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see what happens.

Exactly.

Audra Socinski (28:31)
need for some form of a plan. And then by the time I was having my daughter, was like, I don't, I literally don't care. Like, do not care.

Eileen Kelly (28:36)
Right?

Yeah. Yeah. But like, I don't know what it felt like for you, but for me, there was a lot of

Audra Socinski (28:41)
Just get her out.

Eileen Kelly (28:47)
Prenatal yoga and that was like a social scene and then baby, mommy and me yoga and like, I don't know, all this stuff that

trendy, and if you weren't doing it, maybe you weren't succeeding as a mom.

Audra Socinski (29:06)
Yeah.

Yeah, I did some of that in New Jersey with my son. Partially not, I don't think I felt the need to do it, but it just was something to do. get out of the house and, be with other moms. And so I appreciated it in that regard. then I had a COVID baby. So.

a COVID baby, there was literally nothing I could do with her. And I think I'm really grateful that my second was my COVID baby because had it been my first, I don't know if I would have handled it as well, but being that, my gosh, feel, I have a friend who lives in New York City who literally gave birth to her first on like March 25th or something.

Eileen Kelly (29:37)
Yeah.

Shout out to those moms.

Audra Socinski (29:57)
She went into her, one of her last appointments, like near his due day. And it was obviously, this was March of, yeah, March of 2020. And the doctor was like, you need to decide now if you want us to induce you because like tomorrow your husband like literally might not be able to come into this room with her. So she took a long walk around wherever she lives in New York city, trying to figure out what the hell she was going to do. her water broke.

Eileen Kelly (30:16)
Wow.

Yeah.

Audra Socinski (30:26)
So not gonna wait until he's let's go. And so they like went

Eileen Kelly (30:27)
My God, divine intervention. Holy macro. Wow.

Audra Socinski (30:31)
and had him and then literally the next day walked home to their apartment and then just like hunkered down to the newborn. And I was like, ⁓ my God, that sounds so stressful. So even though I didn't have a lot of access to things to do with my daughter, I, know, how old was my son was like three and a half when she was born. So, you know.

Eileen Kelly (30:39)
⁓ my god.

So scary, yeah.

Audra Socinski (30:55)
It just was like my world, whatever he was kind of doing, the little one, the newborn was coming along with. So I felt like even though she was a COVID baby and there was like no access, there was like nothing I could do with her. just, it didn't feel as hard as it probably could have been.

Eileen Kelly (31:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Audra Socinski (31:15)
which I'm grateful for, very grateful for.

Eileen Kelly (31:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, but the support of other moms in in activities like that, whatever it might be.

you didn't really have, in those early days, being, having it be like lockdown and COVID, like having other moms be like, it's hard, right? Or you're doing a good job, you know, like those kinds of things. That's tough.

Audra Socinski (31:43)
Yeah, I mean, we had to like really rely on just like reaching out via text or I mean, by the time my daughter was born, was, we were, you we were able to go out. And I think here in Vermont, we felt a little less. I mean, obviously COVID was here, but we felt, I don't know, just cause there's less people. We just felt a little safer in a weird way, like mentally. Yeah, we were like, well, it's, you know, I guess it's less likely. I mean, I still am getting that, but.

Eileen Kelly (31:50)
Yeah.

yeah, that's true. Totally, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

Audra Socinski (32:12)
So we, and we have land, we have space, have outdoor, it was easy to go for a walk. was great. yeah, so there was ways that we could still connect that felt safe enough where it didn't feel like we were completely deprived of social interaction with other moms.

Eileen Kelly (32:18)
Right, so you could be out and do things just together.

Yeah.

Audra Socinski (32:31)
But yeah, mean, having a two and a half year old when it first started, who gets sent home from daycare and you have no, you still have to, I still had to work, my husband still had to work. We, thank God we never quarantined for my mother. So she would like help watch him. But there were times where we were like, yeah, we're just gonna have to like work around this two and a half year old who decided.

Eileen Kelly (32:52)
Yeah.

Audra Socinski (32:58)
and just stop napping like right when COVID hit. like, I was like, honey, this is not the time to drop your nap.

Eileen Kelly (33:01)
As they do.

It's

Audra Socinski (33:10)
But thank you so much

for doing that. I would love to spend more time with you.

Eileen Kelly (33:14)
Those moments, right, are seared in your memory of when you start losing naps and it's like, what is going on? Like you have these moments in the day where you can just gather yourself and then suddenly, you know, it's like three naps, then two naps, then one nap, and then no naps and you're like, what, what? I'm supposed to just do this all day long?

Audra Socinski (33:21)
Yeah.

Going to

the zero naps. it's also funny because now my brother and sister-in-law live right down the street. have a four, so similar age as to what I did, but they have a four-year-old and a one-year-old. And my mom had them over the weekend because they were away. And she was commenting something about my niece, the younger one, the one-year-old, going from, she's like, oh, I think she's a little young to go down to one nap. And now that I have an eight and a half-year-old and a five-year-old who haven't napped in years, I'm like,

I don't even I don't even know what the nap schedule is supposed to be at one like I'm so far out of that. I'm like, I completely forgot all that information that I needed to know about good sleep schedules. I'm like, yeah, I don't know. Yes. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (34:17)
See how quickly you lose it? Like you were saying about your mom. Yeah,

like you were saying about your mom not remembering that it was hard or whatever. I think that's nature's way of making us want to procreate because I think otherwise we'd have one and be like, I am never doing this again.

Audra Socinski (34:34)
never doing this again.

not and if you I mean, I I'm sure all parents have some level of remembering that it was hard, but I really do think they forget majority of it. Because yes, you you most likely would not incur sounds horrible. You mostly would not encourage me do it. Give you a yeah, have you really acknowledged like

Eileen Kelly (34:53)
No, I... Yeah, no, that's the truth.

Audra Socinski (35:01)
how hard it is. And sometimes when I go to a baby shower, when I know like someone's about to have a kid.

Eileen Kelly (35:07)
Someone's at the top of the roller coaster and you're like, woo, strap in.

Audra Socinski (35:11)
Yeah,

and I don't want to be totally ruthless about and negative about it because absolutely acknowledging that it's wonderful in so many ways. But I have to pull back a little bit, you how they're always like, give advice, like, what's your advice for the new mom? And my advice is my partly from learning through my own journey, but also as a therapist, I tell

Eileen Kelly (35:14)
Negative. Yeah.

Yes.

Audra Socinski (35:33)
every new mother and their partner if they're at the baby shower. But I say, you need to get really good at emotional regulation. You need to figure out how to best support yourself when you're feeling overwhelmed and dysregulated. If you figure out what that is, then you'll be okay.

Eileen Kelly (35:48)
Yes, that's such good advice.

And support, like my advice is always have support in place, whatever that looks like for you. And reach out, reach out, reach out, ask for help.

Audra Socinski (36:10)
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think one of the big differences between Gen X parenting, and you can attest to this as the more Gen Xer, but I think the biggest difference now is, and I'm sure there was some level of this throughout the years, but I feel like now there's this big push on mothers to...

Eileen Kelly (36:13)
I think one of the big differences.

Audra Socinski (36:35)
like enjoy every moment and like soak it up because you know, and I get that all older people kind of say that to younger people, but that messaging I think has wildly done a disservice to mothers over the years because it just sends this message that if you're not enjoying it, you're messing up.

Eileen Kelly (36:37)
Yeah.

Yes.

Audra Socinski (37:02)
Which like, let's be honest, 85 % of it you're not enjoying. Like last night at 8 p.m. when my daughter's overtired and she's screaming at me because she doesn't want to go to bed, but like I know she needs to go to bed. Like I'm not enjoying that.

Eileen Kelly (37:16)
It's

not enjoyable. It's not enjoyable.

Audra Socinski (37:19)
It's not enjoyable. Or when she's fighting me for the 15th time this week about eating some dinner I made, like, it's not enjoyable. It's not enjoyable.

Eileen Kelly (37:21)
now.

That's not enjoyable. And that's

what you, your generation does best is not pretend that it is.

Audra Socinski (37:37)
Yeah, I think we do a really, really good job of acknowledging that, and I say this to my kids, I say this to my clients all the time, but like two things are true here. Like I love my kids wholeheartedly. I would never, ever, ever not want them. I wanted to be a mother since the day I probably walked out of my own mother. I know that, right? I knew that this was a big part of my life and not but, and there are a lot of times that

I need to get away from them. And that's okay. And that's okay.

Eileen Kelly (38:08)
Yes, yes.

And that mothers are not an unending fountain of love and patience, that we're just human and we also need space and rest.

Audra Socinski (38:21)
No.

Yeah, I actually ⁓ like, for lack of a better word, like, defriended a friend in real life because she continued to essentially push that messaging. Like every time there was, and it was like a group of us who would like, you know, on a group chat or whatever, but like would hang out. And any time any one of us would like voice some type of hard, something that was a struggle.

Eileen Kelly (38:52)
Mm-hmm.

Audra Socinski (38:53)
she would come back with that. Like, ⁓ well, they're all. Yes, like toxic positivity. And I the worst, I finally called her out on it and was like, listen, I, if I were, if I reacted to my clients, the way that you're reacting to us as mothers, I would have no clients. Like if my, if I was a therapist, I might, you know, they're saying, telling me something hard about their kids. And I was like, well, they're only going to be little ones enjoy it now. Like,

Eileen Kelly (38:55)
like weaponized positivity.

The worst.

Audra Socinski (39:23)
They'd be like, peace out. And so because I pushed back on that, she didn't like it. And I was like, I don't think we can be friends anymore. Yeah. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (39:25)
Yeah!

Good. No. And that's,

that's, I think, I don't know any mother who hasn't had one or more experiences like that with another mother at who, who it may not be their conscious intention, but they're shaming, negating and gaslighting you.

Audra Socinski (39:52)
Yes, yes, yes. And it's also just disingenuous because I know for a fact I've seen you not enjoy your children on the playground, which is.

Eileen Kelly (39:59)
Yeah. I love that. I love that

you like have that clarity and it doesn't for a second. Cause I'll tell you for me, it really did make me feel shaky. I love that you're so solidly just like I'm calling bullshit.

Audra Socinski (40:18)
1000%. I've seen you yell at your children, which rightfully so for what they were doing, but please do not tell me that you're enjoying them every moment of your lives. Yeah. And so I think that, you know, one thing that millennials have done better is just acknowledging the hard and voicing that because that's the thing, like I,

Eileen Kelly (40:21)
What the heck?

Right. Right.

Audra Socinski (40:45)
Partly again probably because I'm therapist but it's also just who I've always been is that like I that's my form of coping like I need to tell a friend like hey my kids being a little shit right now and I want to run away to Costa Rica I'm not gonna do it this urge will go away

Eileen Kelly (41:00)
Right? For me, you were that friend!

I said, for me, you were that friend!

Audra Socinski (41:09)
Yes.

It was. Yeah, like we need, I think that's like very important to have friends that you can say that to and not have them come back with some toxic positivity bullshit, but and like validate that. And then know that like you're still a loving, caring mother that wants to still be with her children. Just not.

Eileen Kelly (41:28)
Yes.

Right, the

duality of motherhood is real and needs to be acknowledged, like, at all times. I remember when We all had the flu. They were infants. I was still nursing. I couldn't take anything. And I was...

Audra Socinski (41:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

don't think you've told me this story, but yeah.

Eileen Kelly (41:53)
getting into my car in the CVS parking lot and I went to get tissues or something. And this friend who is very much guilty of that saw me. And I mean, I had the full-on flu. Like I must've looked like who did it and ran. And she was like, hey, what's going on? I'm like, I have the flu. babies have the flu.

And she was like, that's so great. I was like, and she was like, your immune systems are getting stronger. And I was like, if I had any strength or energy left, which I don't because I'm like a dish rag, I would strangle you with my bare hands.

Audra Socinski (42:26)
No.

I would slap you.

Eileen Kelly (42:44)
Nursing, having 102 fever and nursing two infants with 102 fever as well, so it's like two hot rocks on your body while you are feverish, is like the ninth clerical hell.

Audra Socinski (42:54)
No.

It sounds like death.

Yeah. Yeah. I would have wanted to slap her.

Eileen Kelly (43:04)
Like, can't put a can't put a happy face on this one. It just sucks. And I will say back to what you were saying about enjoy every moment. it's funny, like, for some reason, a lot of those moments came while I was grocery shopping. There would be older mothers that would see me and I guess with twins, you just kind of stand out and people

Audra Socinski (43:06)
would have absolutely wanted to slap her.

Now, now.

Eileen Kelly (43:31)
tend to comment more, but I remember like a few times older women coming up and being like, enjoy it, and know, enjoy, and I'd have like one kid in the, the sitting thing, one kid, I mean, in a bucket, like on the top where you put a baby, you know, and let their legs go through. And then the other one inside the cart. And then I was just trying to like fit like cartons around the one that was inside the cart. And

that's why once they can sit up Costco is so great because they have a double seat. They're the only ones that have a double seat. Otherwise twin moms are really screwed. But, ⁓ but I remember just being so tired and older moms coming up to me in the grocery store and being like, enjoy it. This is the best time. if this is the best time, I gotta go. ⁓

Audra Socinski (44:05)
Yes. I know. So great.

What? Gotta

go. Well, I feel like I've asked you this too before, but my mother has very much validated this. So I've been a mother for eight and a half years. if I think about it, it does feel like it went fast in some capacity, but it also feels like 20 years have gone by.

Eileen Kelly (44:28)
Yeah.

Yes!

Audra Socinski (44:47)
Like if I really

think about my son as a baby, like it feels so far away from where we are now. And so I think when I, know, he's now, I barely have to bend my head to kiss the top of his head. So like when I think about it in that terms, like, my gosh, like you at one point could walk under this countertop and now you're almost at my chin.

Eileen Kelly (44:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Audra Socinski (45:11)
So if I think about it in that way, but then if I really think about his eight and a half years or my daughter five years, it feels like 20. And I've asked my mom, I'm like, it feel like yesterday, I'm 40, does it feel like yesterday that I was a baby? And she's like, absolutely not. It feels like forever. And so when we say that to parents, it's just like,

Eileen Kelly (45:21)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, like

it was a blink of an eye. It's a blink of an eye that they, you know, I can't believe they're graduating. I'm like, a blink of an eye. feels like a century of digging and crawling.

Audra Socinski (45:43)
Feels like I went through war.

Right, and so I think we need to get away from like that, those sayings to parents because then it like, I don't know for you, but for me, it sends me into this panic of ⁓ I gotta, ⁓ I mean, I've worked really hard to like not go into that panic mode, but like, I gotta snuggle her a little bit longer and I gotta lay for bedtime because you know, she's not gonna want me to lay with her for bedtime all the time, but that's, laying with

Eileen Kelly (45:55)
Yeah.

Audra Socinski (46:16)
For bedtime is also how I got lice from her last week, so.

Eileen Kelly (46:20)
⁓ my God, I wasn't sure if we were gonna get into that or not, but again, thank God for Mother's Day and that, you know, there's gonna be at least some acknowledgement because on top of everything else that's hard about motherhood, lies!

Audra Socinski (46:25)
I mean, I've

Yeah, which no one, mean, parents of school-aged children will tell you about it, but when you have a baby, no one warns you about the life situation ever.

Eileen Kelly (46:50)
Now, this is like

a rite of passage that's going to happen.

Audra Socinski (46:54)
Right, I had to remind myself that we are not dying of cancer. We are fine. We are physically fine. But it was one of the most overwhelming experiences of my parenting journey thus far to deal with the lice situation. So.

Eileen Kelly (47:10)
Yeah. And it's

just, it's so commonplace and people don't mother older mothers don't really tell younger mothers like this is going to happen. And I don't know if that's a kindness or withholding information, but acting like this is fine and normal. Like what the

Audra Socinski (47:29)
my God, I remember you putting your daughter's hair up in buns and like aggressively spraying it when she was seven, eight, nine.

Eileen Kelly (47:35)
My daughter literally somebody I'd

like it's like in September or October of maybe her kid.

for second grade, maybe second grade. And I put her hair in two Princess Leia buns every single day of every school day for the entire year. And people would make fun of me and be like, why don't you let her wear her hair down? And sometimes she'd be like, mom, can I? I'm like, no, no. Nope. We were literally the only family that didn't get lice that year, the only one.

Audra Socinski (47:48)
I was around.

Did you ever get lice?

I'm jealous right now.

Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (48:17)
And I was like, I don't care. You're wearing your hair like this every day and I'm spraying the shit out of it.

Audra Socinski (48:21)
Yeah, in the last week or so, don't, my head is thinking it's like COVID. You know how when you get COVID, you have like a couple months of it. I know.

Eileen Kelly (48:28)
By the way, I'm like, this is

now what I'm scratching my head because anytime anybody mentions lice, I suddenly am like, I have lice.

Audra Socinski (48:37)
I know. Well,

I keep thinking it's like COVID where like we're immune for a few months. And I was like, wait a minute, that's not how this works. She can still get it again.

Eileen Kelly (48:43)
⁓ Nope.

You gotta plant those buns on your head and spray with rosemary spray and or hairspray.

Audra Socinski (48:49)
I know. I know.

I haven't sprayed. She just hates having her hair up, but.

Eileen Kelly (48:58)
So did my daughter, tough nuts, because no. I was like, I'll tell you, there were some real struggles where she was like begging me to let her wear it down. And I was like, I will die on this hill. No.

Audra Socinski (49:00)
So did.

I'm not doing this again.

Yeah.

This makes me almost want to write a parenting book about all the things that like no one warns you about. But then I feel like if non-mothered women read it, they might not do it.

Eileen Kelly (49:22)
Yeah.

Maybe like, peace out.

Which is fine, go in with your eyes open. I had a friend who was kind of never wanted to have kids and then got married and then their, their relationship was kind of floundering and she called me and she was like, maybe we should have a child. And I said, there is no one in the world.

Audra Socinski (49:34)
right, let's do it.

Eileen Kelly (49:53)
that wanted or fought to have kids harder than me. And I am telling you, if you're not in it to win it, no, because I wanted them more than anything and there are days when I am on my knees.

Audra Socinski (50:05)
Do it.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, they're not kidding when they say it is the hardest job you will ever do.

Eileen Kelly (50:14)
That's the truth.

Yeah, and

it's relentless, spoke to, you're an autism specialist as well. I spoke to Dr. Teresa Lyons, who's an autism scientist, a few weeks ago, and we talked about parenting a child on the spectrum and how it's like extreme parenting and how you have to sometimes just go in the bathroom and cry or,

Go in your, like lock yourself in your closet. And that is true of parenting neurotypical kids as well. Sometimes it's like, you gotta let that release valve out somehow. Because the thing is, you can't just be like, I'm having a hard day, I'm leaving. Like, I'm gonna go take a walk around the block when you have young children. no, you're just here. You cannot leave them. You can't get away from them. You have to.

Audra Socinski (51:11)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (51:12)
stay here and there's no break.

Audra Socinski (51:15)
Yeah, I learned recently about my grandmother who, she passed away maybe three, three, four years ago. But after her death, my mom, or maybe my aunt, but someone told me a story about her. She had five kids very quickly. The last being surprise twins, like on the table giving birth to my uncle and them saying, you need to lay down, there's another one coming. She was like, I'm sorry. What?

Eileen Kelly (51:39)
my god.

Audra Socinski (51:40)
And then

it was like 1960, they left them and you'll appreciate this as mother twins. They left them in the hospital for like five days, cause you do that back then to go home and prepare their house for two babies because they thought they were only getting one and they had three kids already at home. But yeah, so five kids in like, I don't know, five or six years. And

Eileen Kelly (51:52)
Wow.

Wow.

Audra Socinski (52:02)
growing up with her, I thought she was like the epitome of like the most loving, doting, amazing Italian grandmother. But someone told me that she would, she would literally pack a bag and leave and I don't know where she would go. But she would like leave for a night. She'd be like, I'm out because she was so overwhelmed. And I like before being a mother, would have been like, I would have been like horrified by that. But now as a mother, I'm like, oh, grandma,

Eileen Kelly (52:09)
Yeah.

I love that.

Yes, yes! ⁓ my gosh!

Audra Socinski (52:30)
totally understand and like, it

made me appreciate her even more that and my aunt would talks about how she'd be like at the door crying thinking her mother's never gonna come back. So little traumatic. But she did she always came back. But yes, but the fact that she did that, I was just ⁓ okay, it just it just not that I didn't have her normalized as a mother.

Eileen Kelly (52:37)
Yes!

What she did

And she came back more patient, know.

Audra Socinski (52:57)
But it

that need sometimes and desire a lot of times to just be like, I got to get out for a hot sec. I I would recommend doing it in a way that doesn't traumatize your kids, but still acknowledging that there's that desire.

Eileen Kelly (53:17)
But if she didn't, what kind of trauma would have happened? know, one time my daughter, I think you know the story, but I was holding her, she was having a tantrum as she did for a very long time. This was not a two-year-old tantrum. This was like a five-year-old tantrum.

Audra Socinski (53:20)
That's true. That is very.

⁓ my daughter

was having one last night at five, so I did it.

Eileen Kelly (53:37)
I picked her up, she was on my hip. She might've been, she might've been little or she might've been like four. And she hauled off with a closed fist and punched me in the face so hard, you know, and I was home by myself with them, but I was holding her and she punched me so hard. She almost knocked me out. Like I wobbled. And the only thing that kept me upright is I can't land on my kid.

Audra Socinski (54:06)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (54:07)
And was like sheer will to stay vertical. And I brought her upstairs and I put her in her room and I was like, you have got to be away from me.

Audra Socinski (54:18)
or something bad might happen.

Eileen Kelly (54:19)
And yeah, and I put her in

a room and I just took off my clothes and got in the shower and just stood there and let the water run on my head. Because I'm like, I need a moment. And that's what I did. I just let water run on my head and then I was ready to go back in for round two. But there are those moments where your kid almost knocks you unconscious that you're like, I'm gonna need a minute.

Audra Socinski (54:31)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, and I think you're right in that Gen X started to be more aware of the need for emotional regulation. But I do think millennials now, there's a much, higher awareness of dysregulation and the need to figure out how to regulate yourself. So you can go back in for round two. And you or I, neither generation was taught that as a child at all. Like we had

Eileen Kelly (55:12)
now.

Audra Socinski (55:13)
no idea how to do that as a child. So now we're figuring it at 40 and above how to do it while parenting. But I think that millennials now, because we just have much more awareness and much more knowledge of like what that feels like in our bodies and like how to express that outwardly, like we're doing a, hopefully, at least I hope I am doing a better job of like teaching that to our kids. And, but also vocalizing it to them because I think there are,

Eileen Kelly (55:17)
Great.

Yeah.

Audra Socinski (55:41)
some version of mothers that are like, ⁓ I just need to stay super regulated all the time or try to stay all the time so I can be this like loving, doting mom all the time, right? And don't maybe vocalize their dysregulation when that's happening, which I don't think is, I don't think that's helpful. So I think when you have a mother,

Eileen Kelly (55:59)
now.

Audra Socinski (56:04)
like myself and like a lot of moms that I see who just like voice what's going on to their kids so that they're learning through modeling, they're learning through osmosis. And like last night, for example, again, my daughter was having the tantrum about going to bed. My husband was trying to deal with that. Cause shockingly she chose daddy to put her to bed and not me. And I was like, cool, go for it. I'll go down and hang out with the calm eight year old.

Eileen Kelly (56:24)
hehehehe

Audra Socinski (56:32)
⁓ My son was sitting on the couch and he said to me, Mommy, I know that you're dysregulated right now. I see that, but could I have an orange? And I was like, the fact that he said the words, I can see that you're dysregulated now. Like not that I'm relying on him to regulate me, because obviously it's my responsibility, but him acknowledging that and validating that in that moment.

helped regulate me a little bit. Because it was like, thank you. Yes. I was like, thank you for seeing that and saying that. That is so kind that you're noticing that mommy's feeling that way right now. And you know why. Like, he knew exactly why I was dysregulated. And yeah, you can have an orange. Let's get you an orange.

Eileen Kelly (57:03)
You are really seen.

Diggy,

let's have two.

Audra Socinski (57:26)
And I explained that to him that that helped me regulate a little bit more just the validation of acknowledging what was happening in the moment for me. And then he had had a meltdown earlier in the day. So we had related it back to that. And I was like, remember when you were really feeling really sad? And Mommy said that. Mommy just acknowledged why you were feeling sad. And he was like, yeah, that did make me feel better. And I was like, ⁓ yes.

Eileen Kelly (57:52)
I am.

Audra Socinski (57:55)
So I think it's like this, like, you're not trying to just like get these negative feelings away, because like that's not gonna happen. Like you just need to call them out. And I think millennials are doing a little bit better job of that, of honoring that for themselves and voicing that outwardly to their kids. Not to hold their kids responsible for their emotions, but just to be like, hey, I'm a human too. And...

Eileen Kelly (58:10)
Yes.

Audra Socinski (58:23)
these experiences are affecting me in this way. And here's what I'm going to do about it, but also like, here's something you maybe could do about it. Like, listen.

Eileen Kelly (58:32)
Yes. I mean, honestly, that is solving so many problems of marriages, families, parent-child relationships. Because when I had Kimi Berlin on and we were talking about teaching boys how to regulate and how to feel all their feelings and to continue to hold on to that range of feelings as they get older, you're teaching your kids

that same thing, but you're also teaching them that you're not like this, this archetype of the mother being infallible, being just an unending fountain of love and patience has to stop, it has to end. We're just humans, like everyone else. And yes, do we love our kids to the ends of the earth?

Do we protect them no matter what? Yes, that's what good mothers do. we're, know, kids get dysregulated, moms get dysregulated, dads get dysregulated. And I think that this wave of gray divorce that's happening now with Gen Xers is because of the fact that what you're doing right now, what you just described, never happened.

Audra Socinski (59:53)
Never. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (59:55)
It was everything's forced it like women are supposed to work and they're also supposed to do everything around the house and they're also supposed to raise the kids with a smile on their face and love every minute of it and enjoy every minute of it and savor it and also this thing

hopefully won't be a thing when your kids are graduating high school or in high school or going to college this thing of

Two things, one, you're only as happy as your least happy child, I think, is the adage, which I'm like, no. Of course, we feel for our kids, but you can't. That's called codependence. ⁓ And two, this sense of like,

Yes, you feel a sense of loss when your kid is growing up and going away to college or whatever they choose to do, right? But they're kind of starting to leave the nest and stuff. That is, everyone's like, oh, mom, this must be terrible for you. What are you going to do? It's like, this is, I won the game. This was the goal.

Audra Socinski (1:01:00)
You're gonna do it now.

Eileen Kelly (1:01:12)
Right? Like, can we be happy about that? And yes, of course, both those things can exist. You feel a little bit sad, you feel sentimental, you feel whatever, but like, wasn't this the goal the whole time?

Audra Socinski (1:01:23)
Yeah, I know. do remember asking you when my kids were younger about if you missed those baby years or those toddler years with your kids. And I know the first four years with twins were like a blur. But the advice you gave me or what you told me was that you were always excited to see who they were becoming.

Eileen Kelly (1:01:38)
a blur.

Audra Socinski (1:01:49)
or you were always excited to see the next phase. And yes, there is always going to be some level of

now that I have a five-year-old, I'm never going to have another squishy little baby to cuddle with. And part of that is sad. But then if I think about pregnancy, breastfeeding, birth, all the things, I'm like, no, thank you. I'm good. So part of that is sad. I

Eileen Kelly (1:02:06)
Right.

Audra Socinski (1:02:12)
But I've held on to that as they've gotten older, like what you said, of just

there's still this really cool person that I get to see and watch become a human being, a different version of their human being. So I've held on to that when I get, not too sad, but when I go down the, there are no babies anymore, bro.

Eileen Kelly (1:02:27)
Yeah.

Yeah!

Audra Socinski (1:02:39)
Yeah, and being very sentimental and nostalgic, I'm like, okay, that's true. And there's still lot of excitement of like who they're becoming or just who they are right now. They're pretty fun and pretty cool right now. They're also very frustrating and exhausting right now, but that's okay too. Two things are true. They exist all at the same time.

Eileen Kelly (1:02:50)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. And there are new things that they're going to show you. Like you don't even know yet. like my youngest who had a very difficult time regulating for a very long time. And it was really, really, really challenging. And because of that, he couldn't be himself. And so

He couldn't access the other parts of himself because he was so hijacked all the time. So a couple of weeks ago, he comes to me and very matter factly hands me this painting and this little canvas like, you know, with wood, like one of those stretched little canvases that you can buy. And he's like, I made this for you. And he hands it to me and he walks away. And I look at it and I'm like, what? Like, it's a self portrait and it is so...

Audra Socinski (1:03:51)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (1:03:55)
good. I'm like, you made this? And he's like, yeah. And like, he starts to walk downstairs. I'm like, Oh my God, like, do you want to take our classes? He's like, no. And he's like, on to the next thing. But like, he has this gift that I never knew about. And it's funny, because when he was young, I bought him an easel and I bought him paints in like, in the hopes that he could express

Audra Socinski (1:03:56)
I want to see this.

Eileen Kelly (1:04:25)
some of his negative emotions that way. And when he would, which was very rarely, he used only red and black and he would just like mash them around or draw like really angry faces. But like that was it. And you know, art wasn't very interesting to him. And so that was kind of the end of that. And then all of sudden this comes along. It's like, they just...

Audra Socinski (1:04:51)
⁓

Eileen Kelly (1:04:52)
They're growing and becoming and it's so exciting and surprising and amazing to see who's in there and what facet is going to come out next, you know?

Audra Socinski (1:05:05)
Yeah, aw, that's so sweet. And yeah.

Eileen Kelly (1:05:08)
Yeah.

I just, I feel like for this Mother's Day, we just need to remember to high five each other and to

Audra Socinski (1:05:17)
Yes.

Eileen Kelly (1:05:20)
supportive and be each other's cheerleaders and really see each other the way your son saw you.

Audra Socinski (1:05:27)
Yeah.

Well, and I think, like I told you the story a couple of days ago, but instead of the enjoy it, enjoy every moment, they're only little ones. I do think we should shift into this just complimenting or acknowledging people out in the world. Like when they're in the younger years of motherhood, like I told you the story of the older woman. We were at a winery.

And my kids were coloring. And she came up to me and she said, oh, I just want to say you're doing such a good job. I love seeing young kids coloring and just enjoying their family at this winery. And she did mention, I love that they're not just in front of a screen. You didn't just give them an iPad or a phone. You're doing such a great job. And let me preface.

I am not an anti-screen person. My son probably watched three hours of TV the other day when we were both working after school. So like I use screens, don't get me wrong. But I have made a point to be the parent that tries to not use them at restaurants or out in the world, just because I want my kids, mostly because I want my kids just to have the skills to be able to sit at a restaurant and talk and enjoy their family. But also partially just because I just don't love that look.

Eileen Kelly (1:06:48)
Thank you.

Audra Socinski (1:06:48)
screens

all day at home, like, try not to do them out in the world. But for her to come up to me and acknowledge that in that moment and say like, you're doing a job, I'm proud of you, like it felt so good coming from a stranger. so like, I sometimes don't always do it as much as I should, but there are times I'm in Trader Joe's or wherever and I see a mom with like four little kids and I'll just be like, hey, you're doing a good job today. Like you're doing a good job.

Eileen Kelly (1:07:17)
⁓

Audra Socinski (1:07:17)
something because I think that means so much more than just like, hey, try to enjoy it. Yeah, just like the acknowledgement of like, hey, I see you. I get how hard this is. And like, you're killing it. You're doing you're doing it. And I think I agree with you, I think for this Mother's Day and all Mother's Day after we should try to shift into that mentality. When we see mothers out in world. Yeah. I love that.

Eileen Kelly (1:07:24)
Yeah.

West.

Yeah. Lift each other up. Yup. I love that.

And it does, it means so much the times that I was struggling and a mom, another mom said, you got this. You're doing great. It really could bring me to tears, you know? It's very powerful.

Audra Socinski (1:08:00)
Yeah, and it gives you that little

extra oof to be like, okay, as hard as this is, I do got this. Like I will be okay and I can do it even through the heart.

Eileen Kelly (1:08:05)
Yes.

Yes. And also

that someone sees this is hard. You know, that you're not, because it does feel sometimes like you're not doing a good job or you're failing or you're falling short in some way. You know, like when you can't get your kid to school on time because they're having tantrums every morning. It doesn't feel great, you know? So yeah, for us all to be great job getting there.

Audra Socinski (1:08:13)
Yeah.

No, it doesn't.

I know. ⁓ Great job for doing the hard thing. When we say that, I say to my kids all the time, like, we can do hard things, we can do hard things, right? You can do hard things when they're struggling with something. And then I'm like, God, I gotta remind myself of that. Like, I'm doing the hard thing. I'm doing the hard thing, which is raising them.

Eileen Kelly (1:08:36)
at all, you know, really? Exactly! Exactly.

Yup.

Yes, we all need reminders. Yes.

Yep. And sometimes you got to stop for a second and give yourself a little pat on the back and acknowledge that like, this is really hard and I'm doing it.

Audra Socinski (1:09:10)
Yeah. Yeah. It's way harder.

Eileen Kelly (1:09:12)
So I think that's the

message for this Mother's Day and every Mother's Day going forward is you're doing the hard thing.

Audra Socinski (1:09:18)
Every month is right. You're

doing the hard thing and you can do the hard thing and you're gonna be okay. And sometimes it's gonna be not so great and other times it's gonna be wonderful and that's okay.

Eileen Kelly (1:09:24)
Yep. Yeah.

that is the truth and to just be real and keep it real and feel all the feelings because there are a lot that exist all at once in motherhood and they're all valid and none of them should be quashed or make you feel ashamed. They're all valid.

Audra Socinski (1:09:50)
Nope.

Yeah, I support that wholeheartedly as a mother and as a therapist and as an aging woman trying to figure it out.

Eileen Kelly (1:09:57)
Yeah!

Well, thank you so much for being here. This is so fun. So great to see your face.

Audra Socinski (1:10:04)
It was so fun

to talk with you. And, you know, as the woman who helped me, you know, become a mom in my 30s and helps me along the way, it's been really nice to talk to you about this and to learn from you and to all the mothers, you know, that are in our world, in our little worlds.

Eileen Kelly (1:10:15)
No...

Yeah, absolutely. Well, happy Mother's Day to you.

Audra Socinski (1:10:28)
Happy

Mother's Day to you and happy Mother's Day to all your listeners.

Eileen Kelly (1:10:33)
Alright, that's it for us. See you soon.

Audra Socinski (1:10:35)
Okay, bye.