Creativity, Community & Chaos: The 3 C's of Gen X

This week GenXer Taigi Smith joins Eileen on Strangers With Kittens. The studio audience grows by one canine and doubles the drama, (or maybe trauma). Listen as these two dredge up some collective trauma, and some stories that feel unreal but are 100% true.   

Read More About This Week's Guest Here: 

Taigi Smith is a Television Producer for the award-winning ABC NEWS Show, 20/20. She has an incredible fascination with true crime and a passion for stories. When she isn't on camera or behind the scenes, you'll find her at the local food co-op or in the garden.

Transcript

Eileen Kelly (00:00)
one day, we came home and there was a man eating in our kitchen that we didn't know.

Taigi Smith (00:00)
one day, we came home and there was a man eating in our kitchen that we didn't know.

Eileen Kelly (00:07)
hi, I'm Eileen Kelly. Welcome to Strangers with Kittens.

I'm really glad you're here because today I'm talking to a very cool Gen Xer. She's an Emmy Award winning TV writer and producer. She's also a heck of a storyteller. And she'll be joining me here in the studio with her dog Tuxedo who's going to be joining our studio audience. So let's see how that goes.

Eileen Kelly (00:48)
So where this is the Gen X podcast this is a Gen X podcast. Yeah ⁓

Taigi Smith (00:48)
So where this is the Gen X podcast this is a Gen X podcast. Yeah ⁓

Eileen Kelly (00:55)
Growing up Gen X, I spent a little, it was so different. It was so different. And how we're wired differently because of it for good and for bad, right? Yeah, for sure. Self-reliant. Self-reliant, ⁓ but definitely not wanting our kids to not suffer, but. Right.

Taigi Smith (00:55)
Growing up Gen X. It's been different. It was so different. It was so different. And how we're wired differently because of it. For good and for bad. Right? Yeah. For sure. Self-reliant. Self-reliant. ⁓ But definitely not wanting our kids to not suffer. Right.

Eileen Kelly (01:16)
work as hard as we had to work. Right, work as hard as we had to work because to the things that we you know like I think about some of the stuff that I yeah was around or did and I'm like hell no. Hell no. I mean I grew up in San Francisco. So you saw a lot. 70s and 80s and I saw the AIDS crisis right there up close you know I saw ⁓

Taigi Smith (01:16)
work as hard as we had to work. Right, work as hard as we had to work because to the things that we you know like I think about some of the stuff that I ⁓ yeah was around or did and I'm like hell no. Hell no. I mean I grew up in San Francisco. So you saw a lot. 70s and 80s and I saw the AIDS crisis right there up close you know I saw ⁓

Eileen Kelly (01:45)
I saw drugs, I saw prostitution. Yeah, everywhere. saw unhoused people all over San Francisco. I saw a neighborhood that was vibrant and full of

Taigi Smith (01:45)
I saw drugs, I saw prostitution. Yeah, everywhere. saw unhoused people all over San Francisco. I saw a neighborhood that was vibrant and full of

Eileen Kelly (01:59)
with gentrification. I've seen, I mean, I've seen a lot. And when you think about it, my mother was at work so much, God bless her. I would be at home for hours and hours

Taigi Smith (01:58)
transformed with gentrification. I've seen, I mean, I've seen a lot. And when you think about it, my mother was at work so much, God bless her. I would be at home for hours and hours

Eileen Kelly (02:14)
rules like don't watch too much TV, do not answer the phone, don't go outside, and if you do only stay on the block. mean we went everywhere in San Francisco though. didn't just stay on the block honestly. mean that was wishful thinking on her part. it was because we're alone and I mean I was taking a bus to school, a public bus by seven years old. I was on the bus alone walking all over the city by

Taigi Smith (02:14)
rules like don't watch too much TV, do not answer the phone, don't go outside, and if you do only stay on the block. mean we went everywhere in San Francisco though. didn't just stay on the block honestly. mean that was wishful thinking on her part. it was because we're alone and I mean I was taking a bus to school, a public bus by seven years old. I was on the bus alone walking all over the city by

Eileen Kelly (02:41)
myself, but now I have a kid who's like, I think taken the public bus once, doesn't understand it. Right. You know, and I love our community where we live, but I do, I miss when kids would just go up and knock on the door. I do too. My kids were still doing that when we moved in here.

Taigi Smith (02:41)
myself, but now I have a kid who's like, I think taken the public bus once, doesn't understand it. Right. You know, and I love our community where we live, but I do, I miss when kids would just go up and knock on the door. I do too. My kids were still doing that when we moved in here.

Eileen Kelly (03:01)
when I was unpacking, mostly just to get them out of my hair, but it was like, go knock on doors, make some friends, introduce yourself. And everywhere we've moved, they've done that and found friends doing that. I mean, I think it's a little like, it's jarring for other people because nobody really does this anymore. But I'm like, we're doing it. I don't care. The structured, you know, we can't call them play dates anymore because the kids are older, every hangouts is also so structured and so cute.

Taigi Smith (03:01)
when I was unpacking, mostly just to get them out of my hair, but it was like, go knock on doors, make some friends, introduce yourself. And everywhere we've moved, they've done that and found friends doing that. I mean, I think it's a little like, it's jarring for other people because nobody really does this anymore. But I'm like, we're doing it. I don't care. The structured, you know, we can't call them play dates anymore because the kids are older, every hangouts is also so structured and so cute.

Eileen Kelly (03:31)
Curate it. and parental involvement with everything with every single thing which

Taigi Smith (03:31)
Curate it. and parental involvement with everything with every single thing which

Eileen Kelly (03:39)
Exhausting for the parents. Yeah, it's like can't you just go find your own?

Taigi Smith (03:39)
Exhausting for the parents. Yeah, it's like can't you just go find your own?

Eileen Kelly (03:44)
Let me entertain you. What are doing today? It's like I'm your cruise director. This is what we're doing and this is where we're going. You're to play with us. Your award on the sundeck. We had none of that. No. My mother didn't play with me. My mother never played with me once. No. Other than cards with her sister when like she would come and stay and we'd stay up and they'd like smoke cigarettes and we'd play. Yeah. Can ask her for money. Yeah, for money. And you go to the, I mean, we're the generation.

Taigi Smith (03:44)
Let me entertain you. What are doing today? It's like I'm your cruise director. This is what we're doing and this is where we're going. You're to play with us. Your award on the sundeck. We had none of that. No. My mother didn't play with me. My mother never played with me once. No. Other than cards with her sister when like she would come and stay and we'd stay up and they'd like smoke cigarettes and we'd play. Yeah. Can ask her for money. Yeah, for money. And you go to the, I mean, we're the generation.

Eileen Kelly (04:14)
where your parents would write a note or their friends would write a note and you'd go buy cigarettes. I didn't even have a note. I just bought cigarettes and they were like don't smoke them all at once. thought they were hilarious. I was like seven and they're like I have like two cartons of cigarettes under my arms. Yeah. It was like knock yourself out. Knock yourself out. You know and our children are not they're not built for that. They're not built for that and I'm glad in many ways right. I'm glad that there's a lot that

Taigi Smith (04:14)
where your parents would write a note or their friends would write a note and you'd go buy cigarettes. I didn't even have a note. I just bought cigarettes and they were like don't smoke them all at once. thought they were hilarious. I was like seven and they're like I have like two cartons of cigarettes under my arms. Yeah. It was like knock yourself out. Knock yourself out. You know and our children are not they're not built for that. They're not built for that and I'm glad in many ways right. I'm glad that there's a lot that

Eileen Kelly (04:44)
they do not need to experience. agree. And I also think, I talked about this a couple of weeks ago for Siblings Day, talked about like how do you, when my kids were younger I thought how am going to keep them from killing each other when they're older.

Taigi Smith (04:44)
they do not need to experience. agree. And I also think, I talked about this a couple of weeks ago for Siblings Day, talked about like how do you, when my kids were younger I thought how am going to keep them from killing each other when they're older.

Eileen Kelly (05:00)
physically fighting, because I'm the youngest of six. And it was like kids and no parental supervision and older kids being in charge of younger kids and not wanting to be. And it's like, and there were a lot of families like that in my block. it was like, how do I keep this sweet relationship that they have? Like, how do I get them to not?

Taigi Smith (05:00)
physically fighting, because I'm the youngest of six. And it was like kids and no parental supervision and older kids being in charge of younger kids and not wanting to be. And it's like, and there were a lot of families like that in my block. it was like, how do I keep this sweet relationship that they have? Like, how do I get them to not?

Eileen Kelly (05:21)
physically kill each other. And it was like, ⁓ it wasn't even an issue because like, and it wasn't there weren't they weren't being raised in this feral environment. Yeah, it's like no adults around and it's just like Lord of the Flies. I'm like, it doesn't. It's not something that just happens. You know, we had to fend for ourselves and this isn't

Taigi Smith (05:21)
physically kill each other. And it was like, ⁓ it wasn't even an issue because like, and it wasn't there weren't they weren't being raised in this feral environment. Yeah, it's like no adults around and it's just like Lord of the Flies. I'm like, it doesn't. It's not something that just happens. You know, we had to fend for ourselves and this isn't

Eileen Kelly (05:46)
When I say fend for oneself, I don't mean there was no food to eat. Right. No, the fridge was full. It was full. It just wasn't cooked. You it You had to figure out what to do Yeah, if you're... Yeah, there's food to eat. Right. You're make it? Right. Because mom is tired when she gets home, you know, and I do wish that...

Taigi Smith (05:46)
When I say fend for oneself, I don't mean there was no food to eat. Right. No, the fridge was full. It was full. It just wasn't cooked. You it You had to figure out what to do Yeah, if you're... Yeah, there's food to eat. Right. You're make it? Right. Because mom is tired when she gets home, you know, and I do wish that...

Eileen Kelly (06:10)
I'll speak for my child. I wish that she had a little more get up and go, grip, oom-pah-pah, whatever you want to call it. And it's sort of like, whoa, I'll just wait. Right. Who's going to do this Who's going to make me something to eat? Right. It doesn't help that there's like door dash on our fingertips or whatever. It's just so different.

Taigi Smith (06:10)
I'll speak for my child. I wish that she had a little more get up and go, grip, oom-pah-pah, whatever you want to call it. And it's sort of like, whoa, I'll just wait. Right. Who's going to do this Who's going to make me something to eat? Right. It doesn't help that there's like door dash on our fingertips or whatever. It's just so different.

Wasn't among a lot of adults like on the street. You know what I mean? I I walked to and from school. There were certain houses and hello, okay Tuxedo's got something to say Let me tell you about my mom this is the he's not a gentleman like bear. Okay ⁓

Eileen Kelly (06:32)
Wasn't among a lot of adults like on the street. You know what I mean? I I walked to and from school. There were certain houses and hello, okay Tuxedo's got something to say Let me tell you about my mom this is the he's not a gentleman like bear. Okay ⁓

I may not be Gen X but I something to say. right Tuxedo. Okay. He's so handsome. I know this is gonna be your highest rated show yet. oh. Uh oh. Okay get down now. Oh you too? What you guys doing?

Taigi Smith (07:01)
I may not be Gen X but I something to say. right Tuxedo. Okay. He's so handsome. I know this is gonna be your highest rated show yet. oh. Uh oh. Okay get down now. Oh you too? What you guys doing?

Eileen Kelly (07:26)
Yeah, people don't know about doodles. some folks hate doodles. ⁓ yeah, they're like, they're not, they're just high priced.

Taigi Smith (07:26)
Yeah, people don't know about doodles. some folks hate doodles. ⁓ yeah, they're like, they're not, they're just high priced.

Eileen Kelly (07:36)
don't want to say the MUTT word, but that's what they say. But these guys, they just have so much personality. I've never, I always had shelter dogs. Almost too much person. Mixed breed dogs. And this is, it's so interesting to have a dog that just has two breeds and you see breed traits. Cause like I've always just gotten dogs from shelters and it's like, who knows where any of this comes from? know? Yeah. No, they're all, all the doodles are sort of very...

Taigi Smith (07:36)
don't want to say the MUTT word, but that's what they say. But these guys, they just have so much personality. I've never, I always had shelter dogs. Almost too much person. Mixed breed dogs. And this is, it's so interesting to have a dog that just has two breeds and you see breed traits. Cause like I've always just gotten dogs from shelters and it's like, who knows where any of this comes from? know? Yeah. No, they're all, all the doodles are sort of very...

Eileen Kelly (08:03)
They want to be your friend. my God. They're so like involved and curious. Now you want to know what's happening, huh? Participating and everything. Alert. Yes. They like want to drive everywhere. They smile. Yeah. did you have a dog growing up? Yeah, I begged my parents. I mean, I must have been so annoying because it was like a campaign, relentless campaign for a dog.

Taigi Smith (08:03)
They want to be your friend. my God. They're so like involved and curious. Now you want to know what's happening, huh? Participating and everything. Alert. Yes. They like want to drive everywhere. They smile. Yeah. did you have a dog growing up? Yeah, I begged my parents. I mean, I must have been so annoying because it was like a campaign, relentless campaign for a dog.

Eileen Kelly (08:29)
My mother smoked two packs of filterless ripe palm walls a day. My dad smoked salams and we weren't getting a dog because of my asthma. It's like, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. they got me fish. mean, the fish were fine, but you can't cuddle with fish. So finally in second grade, they came home with a puppy and...

Taigi Smith (08:29)
My mother smoked two packs of filterless ripe palm walls a day. My dad smoked salams and we weren't getting a dog because of my asthma. It's like, I'm gonna call bullshit on this. they got me fish. mean, the fish were fine, but you can't cuddle with fish. So finally in second grade, they came home with a puppy and...

Eileen Kelly (08:56)
She was awesome. And then the next day they came home with another puppy who was her sister because my dad was like, she was like whining all night. She's lonely. She needs a companion. So it was like, my gosh, fantastic. I get a puppy every day now. But it was just the two, but they were great. And I had them like my whole childhood and to college and yeah. And then I was like almost never dogless after that. Yeah. Yeah. I had a dog.

Taigi Smith (08:56)
She was awesome. And then the next day they came home with another puppy who was her sister because my dad was like, she was like whining all night. She's lonely. She needs a companion. So it was like, my gosh, fantastic. I get a puppy every day now. But it was just the two, but they were great. And I had them like my whole childhood and to college and yeah. And then I was like almost never dogless after that. Yeah. Yeah. I had a dog.

Eileen Kelly (09:22)
My mother did not smoke two packs a day. She was a marathon runner. Shout out to my mom. Yeah, she ran, she's run in like 40 marathons. Oh my gosh. Yeah. She'd run all around. a badass. Yeah. She's like, even at 73 years old, she's got like a 24 inch waist. My mom has zero body fat. She's pretty amazing. Yeah. She's aged in reverse and

Taigi Smith (09:22)
My mother did not smoke two packs a day. She was a marathon runner. Shout out to my mom. Yeah, she ran, she's run in like 40 marathons. Oh my gosh. Yeah. She'd run all around. a badass. Yeah. She's like, even at 73 years old, she's got like a 24 inch waist. My mom has zero body fat. She's pretty amazing. Yeah. She's aged in reverse and

Eileen Kelly (09:50)
we talk about it a lot because she's like, people don't treat me like I'm a senior citizen. I need the discount. I've got to get up there. You look 45. know, like don't be so fit and fabulous. So she's pretty cool. But I think a lot of my childhood, I remember my mother like training for these races and in a way where

Taigi Smith (09:50)
we talk about it a lot because she's like, people don't treat me like I'm a senior citizen. I need the discount. I've got to get up there. You look 45. know, like don't be so fit and fabulous. So she's pretty cool. But I think a lot of my childhood, I remember my mother like training for these races and in a way where

Eileen Kelly (10:18)
Us as moms, again, like Gen X moms, I can't speak for everyone, but we will sacrifice. I'm not gonna train for a marathon. I take care of my kid. Oh, that's true. I gotta go to her track meets. I have to work.

Taigi Smith (10:18)
Us as moms, again, like Gen X moms, I can't speak for everyone, but we will sacrifice. I'm not gonna train for a marathon. I take care of my kid. Oh, that's true. I gotta go to her track meets. I have to work.

Eileen Kelly (10:34)
eight hours a day and then pick her up after school and curate the breakfast and all these things like but they were just like yeah I'm gonna do my thing. Now do you think that we're like that because we were alone so much as kids and we don't want that for our kids? I think so. Or do you think it's a societal shift that

Taigi Smith (10:34)
eight hours a day and then pick her up after school and curate the breakfast and all these things like but they were just like yeah I'm gonna do my thing. Now do you think that we're like that because we were alone so much as kids and we don't want that for our kids? I think so. Or do you think it's a societal shift that

Eileen Kelly (10:58)
where parenting became a verb and we have to be a part of everything. Because I can remember when my older ones were younger, I was like, it's too much, all this organized stuff. They're five years old and I gotta take them to a class? We gotta have organized play dates? Can't they just play in the dirt in the backyard? Why is it all so...

Taigi Smith (10:58)
where parenting became a verb and we have to be a part of everything. Because I can remember when my older ones were younger, I was like, it's too much, all this organized stuff. They're five years old and I gotta take them to a class? We gotta have organized play dates? Can't they just play in the dirt in the backyard? Why is it all so...

Eileen Kelly (11:25)
Serious. Yeah, I think for me no for me. It's an I I can directly connect it to Being an only child mother worked a lot and me just wanting certain things For my kid that I didn't have I don't

Taigi Smith (11:25)
Serious. Yeah, I think for me no for me. It's an I I can directly connect it to Being an only child mother worked a lot and me just wanting certain things For my kid that I didn't have I don't

Eileen Kelly (11:45)
Honestly, I don't really care what other mothers are doing. I got enough on my plate with work and You know my family. It's it's very demanding. I think being a mother But I think that there is pressure for us to over schedule our kids. Yeah And because they're the one that's left out. It's like if everybody is doing this class or this camp or this What do you call them those teams where you like? Travel, soccer. Yeah, but it's like

Taigi Smith (11:45)
Honestly, I don't really care what other mothers are doing. I got enough on my plate with work and You know my family. It's it's very demanding. I think being a mother But I think that there is pressure for us to over schedule our kids. Yeah And because they're the one that's left out. It's like if everybody is doing this class or this camp or this What do you call them those teams where you like? Travel, soccer. Yeah, but it's like

Eileen Kelly (12:14)
a something team. can't think of it where you get like, it's not just lacrosse season. They need to play lacrosse in the off season whatever, like pay to play kind of teams so that they're getting the maximum amount of practice and it's like, God. Yeah, I know, but there's pressure. Yeah, because the other kids are doing it then if you're the only one that

Taigi Smith (12:14)
a something team. can't think of it where you get like, it's not just lacrosse season. They need to play lacrosse in the off season whatever, like pay to play kind of teams so that they're getting the maximum amount of practice and it's like, God. Yeah, I know, but there's pressure. Yeah, because the other kids are doing it then if you're the only one that

Eileen Kelly (12:35)
It's too lazy to drag your kid around to God knows where to play everything then you suck. that's the first question people ask. So what your kid into? And it's not like real. What's your kid's CV at 10? What does your child do? And it's like, well, you know, I'll say that last summer my daughter.

Taigi Smith (12:35)
It's too lazy to drag your kid around to God knows where to play everything then you suck. that's the first question people ask. So what your kid into? And it's not like real. What's your kid's CV at 10? What does your child do? And it's like, well, you know, I'll say that last summer my daughter.

Eileen Kelly (12:56)
I was like, so what are you doing? Doing dance camp? Yeah, no. Okay, what about this cooking camp? Yeah, I don't want to do that, not into cooking. All right, you know, want to go to an art camp? Nah, I don't really like art. And then I was like, what are you going to do? She's like, nothing. And I said, you're not doing anything? She's like, nope. I'm resting this summer. And so I thought to myself, do I force her into one of these camps?

Taigi Smith (12:56)
I was like, so what are you doing? Doing dance camp? Yeah, no. Okay, what about this cooking camp? Yeah, I don't want to do that, not into cooking. All right, you know, want to go to an art camp? Nah, I don't really like art. And then I was like, what are you going to do? She's like, nothing. And I said, you're not doing anything? She's like, nope. I'm resting this summer. And so I thought to myself, do I force her into one of these camps?

Eileen Kelly (13:25)
and waste my money because then she just won't go. And what are you? And it'll cause friction and battles between you. All summer. Or do I say, well, mom's going to work. know, dad's got his stuff. He's working. Like, you're on your own. Do not call me every five minutes for a door dash or whatever. You're bored and you know, you don't have anything to do. What time am I coming home? Like, you're on your own this summer. She's like, great. She had the best summer.

Taigi Smith (13:25)
and waste my money because then she just won't go. And what are you? And it'll cause friction and battles between you. All summer. Or do I say, well, mom's going to work. know, dad's got his stuff. He's working. Like, you're on your own. Do not call me every five minutes for a door dash or whatever. You're bored and you know, you don't have anything to do. What time am I coming home? Like, you're on your own this summer. She's like, great. She had the best summer.

Eileen Kelly (13:55)
Yeah, yeah, she hung out all summer. They went to the health club. They changed their diets. You know, they started working out together and that was their bonding summer. I went to work, you know, but she found stuff to do. And she had the space to figure out what she was interested in. Yeah.

Taigi Smith (13:55)
Yeah, yeah, she hung out all summer. They went to the health club. They changed their diets. You know, they started working out together and that was their bonding summer. I went to work, you know, but she found stuff to do. And she had the space to figure out what she was interested in. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (14:19)
and think about it like we had maybe a little too much space but we had that space.

Taigi Smith (14:19)
and think about it like we had maybe a little too much space but we had that space.

Eileen Kelly (14:26)
That time, it wasn't just about being a kid, it was about being a kid in that time where you were not, not just not over scheduled, not scheduled at all. And you could lie on your back and look at the clouds for two hours. be bored. I mean, I remember, don't you? I'm so bored. ⁓ yeah. But nothing, nothing jumped in to fill up that boredom. No, you had to figure it You just had to be bored and then your mind would wander and then you'd go to your friend's house or you'd read a book, do your own book.

Taigi Smith (14:26)
That time, it wasn't just about being a kid, it was about being a kid in that time where you were not, not just not over scheduled, not scheduled at all. And you could lie on your back and look at the clouds for two hours. be bored. I mean, I remember, don't you? I'm so bored. ⁓ yeah. But nothing, nothing jumped in to fill up that boredom. No, you had to figure it You just had to be bored and then your mind would wander and then you'd go to your friend's house or you'd read a book, do your own book.

Eileen Kelly (14:56)
Yes, you came up with like, I think I'm try and cook something Yeah, I think I'm going to melt these crayons and see what happens. See what happens Yeah, you know we used to tie rubber bands together and we would play this game called high jump or we'd have all these rubber bands and like it would start at one foot two foot three foot and by the time the game was over like you were at like eight feet tall and like who could jump eight feet over the rubber bands, you know, but this was

Taigi Smith (14:56)
Yes, you came up with like, I think I'm try and cook something Yeah, I think I'm going to melt these crayons and see what happens. See what happens Yeah, you know we used to tie rubber bands together and we would play this game called high jump or we'd have all these rubber bands and like it would start at one foot two foot three foot and by the time the game was over like you were at like eight feet tall and like who could jump eight feet over the rubber bands, you know, but this was

Eileen Kelly (15:26)
just idle time and figuring out things to do. Right and would a game like that now be something that would be valued or organized by someone? No. No. But it served a purpose. It served a purpose and

Taigi Smith (15:26)
just idle time and figuring out things to do. Right and would a game like that now be something that would be valued or organized by someone? No. No. But it served a purpose. It served a purpose and

Eileen Kelly (15:43)
You know, when I really think about it in context, like we had to walk around the neighborhood and collect rubber bands. And the rubber bands usually came off of the newspapers because that's when the newspapers were still delivered every day. They'd roll them up and they put a rubber band over them. So people would just like open the paper, like throw the rubber band on the ground. So we'd walk around collecting these rubber bands and we'd make this rope, the high jump. And then we'd play the game for hours.

Taigi Smith (15:43)
You know, when I really think about it in context, like we had to walk around the neighborhood and collect rubber bands. And the rubber bands usually came off of the newspapers because that's when the newspapers were still delivered every day. They'd roll them up and they put a rubber band over them. So people would just like open the paper, like throw the rubber band on the ground. So we'd walk around collecting these rubber bands and we'd make this rope, the high jump. And then we'd play the game for hours.

Eileen Kelly (16:13)
Yeah, and like think about how industrious that was and how creative that was and it was like problem-solving and creativity and

Taigi Smith (16:13)
Yeah, and like think about how industrious that was and how creative that was and it was like problem-solving and creativity and

Eileen Kelly (16:24)
coming up with the rules, you know, when you're playing with your friends and you need three people at least to play. And if there were only two of you, we would tie the rubber band rope on like a doorknob and then stretch it or a tree. Right, so pivoting, adjusting, all these life skills that you're developing just on your own. kids don't have a chance to do that as much now. And you need buy-in, you need buy-in from...

Taigi Smith (16:24)
coming up with the rules, you know, when you're playing with your friends and you need three people at least to play. And if there were only two of you, we would tie the rubber band rope on like a doorknob and then stretch it or a tree. Right, so pivoting, adjusting, all these life skills that you're developing just on your own. kids don't have a chance to do that as much now. And you need buy-in, you need buy-in from...

Eileen Kelly (16:54)
community really like we can all say okay take the kids off the cell phones but if you do that you have to do something with that time or just say unilaterally you know what go figure it out right like really figure it out it's it's one thing to say it and it's another thing to do it and to practice it I also think that when we were kids they're

Taigi Smith (16:54)
community really like we can all say okay take the kids off the cell phones but if you do that you have to do something with that time or just say unilaterally you know what go figure it out right like really figure it out it's it's one thing to say it and it's another thing to do it and to practice it I also think that when we were kids they're

Eileen Kelly (17:20)
It wasn't just that our parents were like, don't call us, and we didn't. It was that they really were unreachable, kind of. A, there wasn't any

Taigi Smith (17:20)
It wasn't just that our parents were like, don't call us, and we didn't. It was that they really were unreachable, kind of. A, there wasn't any

Eileen Kelly (17:31)
there weren't TV shows that we really wanted to watch at certain hours of the day, right? It was just the news or just whatever. after school special. Right, but that wasn't every day. No. Right, that was like that you like stopped everything for. it was like, oh my God, you'd see in the TV eye and be like, I gotta make sure I don't miss this.

Taigi Smith (17:31)
there weren't TV shows that we really wanted to watch at certain hours of the day, right? It was just the news or just whatever. after school special. Right, but that wasn't every day. No. Right, that was like that you like stopped everything for. it was like, oh my God, you'd see in the TV eye and be like, I gotta make sure I don't miss this.

Eileen Kelly (17:47)
there was space that was kind of designated and in place already for you to just figure it out and you didn't bother anybody else because they weren't, they didn't have a cell phone where you could text them or call them. There weren't things like DoorDash that you couldn't rely on. It was just like, listen, they're at work. You're alone.

Taigi Smith (17:47)
there was space that was kind of designated and in place already for you to just figure it out and you didn't bother anybody else because they weren't, they didn't have a cell phone where you could text them or call them. There weren't things like DoorDash that you couldn't rely on. It was just like, listen, they're at work. You're alone.

Eileen Kelly (18:14)
End of story. But some, mean, those times were lonely though. Yeah, that's what we try to protect our kids from. Yeah, really lonely. Really lonely. Hours. Hours and hours and days and days. But days and days, like being alone. Yeah. And being alone is one thing and there is some, I like being alone sometimes and I know I like it because of being alone as a kid, but there's being alone.

Taigi Smith (18:14)
End of story. But some, mean, those times were lonely though. Yeah, that's what we try to protect our kids from. Yeah, really lonely. Really lonely. Hours. Hours and hours and days and days. But days and days, like being alone. Yeah. And being alone is one thing and there is some, I like being alone sometimes and I know I like it because of being alone as a kid, but there's being alone.

Eileen Kelly (18:44)
then there's being lonely. And it was very lonely. I felt lonely as a kid. When my friends weren't around, there were stretches of time when we were all together and we're still friends now. was the best. in those hours where everyone had to be in the house because their parents were working or we just weren't together.

Taigi Smith (18:44)
then there's being lonely. And it was very lonely. I felt lonely as a kid. When my friends weren't around, there were stretches of time when we were all together and we're still friends now. was the best. in those hours where everyone had to be in the house because their parents were working or we just weren't together.

Eileen Kelly (19:11)
It was lonely. There's nothing to watch on TV. There's no one to talk to. I didn't have, I had maybe the books that I borrowed from the library, but there wasn't this whole library of books. There was just nothing to do. ⁓

Taigi Smith (19:11)
It was lonely. There's nothing to watch on TV. There's no one to talk to. I didn't have, I had maybe the books that I borrowed from the library, but there wasn't this whole library of books. There was just nothing to do. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (19:30)
Same, and I had read all of the books that I owned and would go up to the library by myself and check books out, like, you know, would have run through the ones that I was interested in. And it was like, what now? I'm just alone with my thoughts, you know? And that's great because it gives you room for creativity and it makes you feel like, okay, well I need to come up with something, but.

Taigi Smith (19:30)
Same, and I had read all of the books that I owned and would go up to the library by myself and check books out, like, you know, would have run through the ones that I was interested in. And it was like, what now? I'm just alone with my thoughts, you know? And that's great because it gives you room for creativity and it makes you feel like, okay, well I need to come up with something, but.

Eileen Kelly (19:55)
You do run out, And it can feel sad. as a kid I remember feeling like very sad and very alone a lot. Yeah, me too. Yeah, and not wanting that for my kids. Not at all. Yeah. Not at all. So when I hear I'm bored,

Taigi Smith (19:55)
You do run out, And it can feel sad. as a kid I remember feeling like very sad and very alone a lot. Yeah, me too. Yeah, and not wanting that for my kids. Not at all. Yeah. Not at all. So when I hear I'm bored,

Eileen Kelly (20:15)
was like, okay, if I'm there to hear that you're bored, go find something to do. Because you're not really bored if I'm there, because even aggravating your mother becomes an activity. Exactly. Yeah, we're still having an exchange. I'm still in a dialogue with you. You are not completely alone. I can speak for you, because I kind of know you.

Taigi Smith (20:15)
was like, okay, if I'm there to hear that you're bored, go find something to do. Because you're not really bored if I'm there, because even aggravating your mother becomes an activity. Exactly. Yeah, we're still having an exchange. I'm still in a dialogue with you. You are not completely alone. I can speak for you, because I kind of know you.

Eileen Kelly (20:40)
Our kids are not going to know what it's like to be alone for days. Maybe a few hours, which they should learn to be alone. But I don't think they need to have that sense of sadness that goes with being 9 or 10 or 11. Right, and just having to handle whatever.

Taigi Smith (20:40)
Our kids are not going to know what it's like to be alone for days. Maybe a few hours, which they should learn to be alone. But I don't think they need to have that sense of sadness that goes with being 9 or 10 or 11. Right, and just having to handle whatever.

Eileen Kelly (20:59)
up too and that and feeling on high alert because you're alone and you're little and you know that you're little and you know that you you'll do your best but you're no match for somebody if they broke in or whatever and that feeling of being on high alert and like kind of scared a lot

Taigi Smith (20:59)
up too and that and feeling on high alert because you're alone and you're little and you know that you're little and you know that you you'll do your best but you're no match for somebody if they broke in or whatever and that feeling of being on high alert and like kind of scared a lot

Eileen Kelly (21:21)
is one of the like prevailing memories of my childhood. Because you'd hear a noise or you'd hear a noise in the basement or you'd have to go down to the basement because your mother said to switch the laundry or do whatever and it was terrifying and there's no one around to even hear me if I scream, you know? I do know. It's not a great feeling. I mean just having this conversation makes me think of a time.

Taigi Smith (21:21)
is one of the like prevailing memories of my childhood. Because you'd hear a noise or you'd hear a noise in the basement or you'd have to go down to the basement because your mother said to switch the laundry or do whatever and it was terrifying and there's no one around to even hear me if I scream, you know? I do know. It's not a great feeling. I mean just having this conversation makes me think of a time.

Eileen Kelly (21:50)
So my mother and I, lived in this apartment in the Mission District in San Francisco, which is now like tech central, but at the time was very working class neighborhood. We loved it. was vibrant, incredible place to grow up. And my mom came home

Taigi Smith (21:50)
So my mother and I, lived in this apartment in the Mission District in San Francisco, which is now like tech central, but at the time was very working class neighborhood. We loved it. was vibrant, incredible place to grow up. And my mom came home

Eileen Kelly (22:08)
one day, we came home and there was a man eating in our kitchen that we didn't know.

Taigi Smith (22:08)
one day, we came home and there was a man eating in our kitchen that we didn't know.

Eileen Kelly (22:17)
And he had been coming, my mom would later say, she would come and see dishes in the sink. my God. And he didn't speak English, and we didn't speak Spanish.

Taigi Smith (22:17)
And he had been coming, my mom would later say, she would come and see dishes in the sink. my God. And he didn't speak English, and we didn't speak Spanish.

Eileen Kelly (22:31)
But my mom had a good girlfriend who lived downstairs, Lily. And Lily was a single mother like my mother. And she had a daughter who was my age. And so she and Lily became best friends. They did not know each other prior to us moving into this apartment. Or prior to them moving in, because we lived there first. And so my mother's like, Lily, there's a man, there's a man, he's eating in the kitchen. So he just continued to eat, like when you guys They were having a hard time communicating, but he did not run away.

Taigi Smith (22:31)
But my mom had a good girlfriend who lived downstairs, Lily. And Lily was a single mother like my mother. And she had a daughter who was my age. And so she and Lily became best friends. They did not know each other prior to us moving into this apartment. Or prior to them moving in, because we lived there first. And so my mother's like, Lily, there's a man, there's a man, he's eating in the kitchen. So he just continued to eat, like when you guys They were having a hard time communicating, but he did not run away.

Eileen Kelly (23:00)
He was just like, she's really scary. I'm sorry, but he was speaking in Spanish. She gets Lily. Who knew Lily had a gun? Right on Lily. So Lily is like, what? So Lily comes up and she's got this little gun, this like pistol, and she's like pointing at the man. And she's like, get out of here.

Taigi Smith (23:00)
He was just like, she's really scary. I'm sorry, but he was speaking in Spanish. She gets Lily. Who knew Lily had a gun? Right on Lily. So Lily is like, what? So Lily comes up and she's got this little gun, this like pistol, and she's like pointing at the man. And she's like, get out of here.

Eileen Kelly (23:21)
and she and my mother held this man at gunpoint. This is a true story. They held him at gunpoint until the police came. Wow. And looking back, I don't...

Taigi Smith (23:21)
and she and my mother held this man at gunpoint. This is a true story. They held him at gunpoint until the police came. Wow. And looking back, I don't...

Eileen Kelly (23:39)
ever feel like I was afraid in that apartment. I think if that had happened to me as an adult, or if that happened to my daughter, like we'd have to move. The neighborhood's going down, like we gotta get out of here. like, it was like okay, the man was eating in the kitchen, guess he didn't have enough to eat, so he found a door that was open, because my mom would leave the door open so I could get home, get in the house after school. Thank God you didn't come home by yourself. Oh my God. Thank God.

Taigi Smith (23:39)
ever feel like I was afraid in that apartment. I think if that had happened to me as an adult, or if that happened to my daughter, like we'd have to move. The neighborhood's going down, like we gotta get out of here. like, it was like okay, the man was eating in the kitchen, guess he didn't have enough to eat, so he found a door that was open, because my mom would leave the door open so I could get home, get in the house after school. Thank God you didn't come home by yourself. Oh my God. Thank God.

Eileen Kelly (24:09)
Yeah. Yeah, but he had probably been sort of watching from somewhere and knew our patterns and what we were doing. And I have to say, you can sit there and say, well, I guess he didn't have a lot to eat. He didn't break into a man's apartment. No.

Taigi Smith (24:09)
Yeah. Yeah, but he had probably been sort of watching from somewhere and knew our patterns and what we were doing. And I have to say, you can sit there and say, well, I guess he didn't have a lot to eat. He didn't break into a man's apartment. No.

Eileen Kelly (24:27)
No, but there wouldn't have been anything to eat in the fridge. He'd have something. Yeah, he was just eating. he either somehow communicated to my, and I was young, I was probably like nine or 10, but I remember. Yeah, hell that The gun. Jesus. It was a pistol.

Taigi Smith (24:27)
No, but there wouldn't have been anything to eat in the fridge. He'd have something. Yeah, he was just eating. he either somehow communicated to my, and I was young, I was probably like nine or 10, but I remember. Yeah, hell that The gun. Jesus. It was a pistol.

Eileen Kelly (24:49)
And my mom and they were so empowered. Like once Lily had this gun, like they were just like, get out of here. You're gonna sit on and he sat on the steps and Lily had the gun. Like on the stoop outside? the steps were inside the apartment building. So there was a gate and for years the gate was unopened. it was unlocked and the landlords would never put a lock on the front gate because they said then they'd have to make keys for everyone.

Taigi Smith (24:49)
And my mom and they were so empowered. Like once Lily had this gun, like they were just like, get out of here. You're gonna sit on and he sat on the steps and Lily had the gun. Like on the stoop outside? the steps were inside the apartment building. So there was a gate and for years the gate was unopened. it was unlocked and the landlords would never put a lock on the front gate because they said then they'd have to make keys for everyone.

Eileen Kelly (25:17)
You know, so they left the gate unlocked and you could just walk in and go up to the apartments. so, yeah. And there was some things, I mean things would happen in those hallways. People were shooting up drugs in the hallways, prostitutes were having sex in those hallways. I remember coming out of... ⁓

Taigi Smith (25:17)
You know, so they left the gate unlocked and you could just walk in and go up to the apartments. so, yeah. And there was some things, I mean things would happen in those hallways. People were shooting up drugs in the hallways, prostitutes were having sex in those hallways. I remember coming out of... ⁓

Eileen Kelly (25:38)
the down the steps to go to school and there was a man that we called the can man and he would collect cans to sell. He was homeless and he would just, our hallway was where he lived and the man never said anything to any of us and we just walk around him, keep on going. Now I'm imagining what this building looks like and because my vision, I mean I've only been to San Francisco.

Taigi Smith (25:38)
the down the steps to go to school and there was a man that we called the can man and he would collect cans to sell. He was homeless and he would just, our hallway was where he lived and the man never said anything to any of us and we just walk around him, keep on going. Now I'm imagining what this building looks like and because my vision, I mean I've only been to San Francisco.

Eileen Kelly (26:06)
once or twice, but you know, big Victorian buildings with like turrets on the top and stuff. Was it more like that? Sort of, but it wasn't, it wasn't a true Victorian. if you have ever been in San Francisco, like it's a typical, maybe 10 units. I was gonna say like eight to 10. Yeah, three floors.

Taigi Smith (26:06)
once or twice, but you know, big Victorian buildings with like turrets on the top and stuff. Was it more like that? Sort of, but it wasn't, it wasn't a true Victorian. if you have ever been in San Francisco, like it's a typical, maybe 10 units. I was gonna say like eight to 10. Yeah, three floors.

Eileen Kelly (26:27)
a little carriage house in the back where someone always rents that. Just like, just an apartment building. Where everyone sort of knew each other.

Taigi Smith (26:27)
a little carriage house in the back where someone always rents that. Just like, just an apartment building where everyone sort of knew each other.

Eileen Kelly (26:39)
And thank God for neighbors. That's the other thing. I felt much safer when I moved to an apartment in my early twenties because there are people around. You know, like I live in a blue collar neighborhood in a freestanding house. The houses were close together, but you still were cut off. You know what I mean? Whereas in an apartment building, you felt connected to other people. You heard the person above you, person below you, the person next to you, you know? And so it never felt like, yeah, there were certain things that were more

Taigi Smith (26:39)
And thank God for neighbors. That's the other thing. I felt much safer when I moved to an apartment in my early twenties because there are people around. You know, like I live in a blue collar neighborhood in a freestanding house. The houses were close together, but you still were cut off. You know what I mean? Whereas in an apartment building, you felt connected to other people. You heard the person above you, person below you, the person next to you, you know? And so it never felt like, yeah, there were certain things that were more

Eileen Kelly (27:09)
scary battle. Like I remember always, you know, you'd walk into the vestibule and then you'd use the key to open the door to the lobby. And I was always thinking, someone's going to get me in this vestibule, right? Like that, five seconds when you're doing that, it's like that's, it's like, whatever, like a little kill box or something like in there. So that always felt nerve wracking. But other than that, I always felt much safer in apartments. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we were in a city, we're in San Francisco.

Taigi Smith (27:09)
scary battle. Like I remember always, you know, you'd walk into the vestibule and then you'd use the key to open the door to the lobby. And I was always thinking, someone's going to get me in this vestibule, right? Like that, five seconds when you're doing that, it's like that's, it's like, whatever, like a little kill box or something like in there. So that always felt nerve wracking. But other than that, I always felt much safer in apartments. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we were in a city, we're in San Francisco.

Eileen Kelly (27:39)
a world away from where we are right now. So we were very close together in small apartments, know, all the moms worked, know, the dads all worked if they were there, the kids, we were just everywhere and it was multiracial in a way. ⁓

Taigi Smith (27:39)
a world away from where we are right now. So we were very close together in small apartments, know, all the moms worked, know, the dads all worked if they were there, the kids, we were just everywhere and it was multiracial in a way. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (27:58)
that you can only understand, I think, if you live in a place like San Francisco. Yeah, I think it's a very unique place and a unique time, too. yeah. Yeah. I mean, the 80s in San Francisco, I mean, it's just, I can think of all the people that cycled through our building who lived there.

Taigi Smith (27:58)
that you can only understand, I think, if you live in a place like San Francisco. Yeah, I think it's a very unique place and a unique time, too. yeah. Yeah. I mean, the 80s in San Francisco, I mean, it's just, I can think of all the people that cycled through our building who lived there.

Eileen Kelly (28:20)
Keith Taylor was this really cool hairdresser.

Taigi Smith (28:20)
Keith Taylor was this really cool hairdresser.

Eileen Kelly (28:28)
ran a cleaning service called the Clean Team. And I remember when he moved in, and I was like, Mom, there's this guy. He's got this pink mohawk.

Taigi Smith (28:28)
ran a cleaning service called the Clean Team. And I remember when he moved in, and I was like, Mom, there's this guy. He's got this pink mohawk.

Eileen Kelly (28:39)
I've never seen anything like this. And she's like, leave him alone. Leave him alone. him, you know? And like he and my mom became friends. And I remember when he was like, I got this hairstyle and like he like permed my mother's hair and like shaved it off on the side. And like she had this David Bowie like, hairstyle. And she was just like, it was so amazing. And he was so cool.

Taigi Smith (28:39)
I've never seen anything like this. And she's like, leave him alone. Leave him alone. him, you know? And like he and my mom became friends. And I remember when he was like, I got this hairstyle and like he like permed my mother's hair and like shaved it off on the side. And like she had this David Bowie like, hairstyle. And she was just like, it was so amazing. And he was so cool.

Eileen Kelly (29:03)
Yeah. ⁓

Taigi Smith (29:03)
Yeah. ⁓

Eileen Kelly (29:06)
Oh, gosh. I feel like when people think of the 80s, it's like where you were living was kind of the epicenter of it all. Oh, And it was probably happening there first before it was happening anywhere else. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. mean, we earthquakes. mean, those were was that big, terrible one in the 80s. Yeah, Northridge. Yeah.

Taigi Smith (29:06)
Oh, gosh. I feel like when people think of the 80s, it's like where you were living was kind of the epicenter of it all. Oh, And it was probably happening there first before it was happening anywhere else. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. mean, we earthquakes. mean, those were was that big, terrible one in the 80s. Yeah, Northridge. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (29:28)
We're in the Bay Bridge like collapsed and my mother the one thing she did That was sort of like what we would do now, right? But she had an earthquake plan And she'd always say like no matter where I am if there's an earthquake You're gonna walk down Mission Street and I'm gonna walk up Mission Street And and that's like the main street in set or one of the main streets in San Francisco It like goes all the way up from the top of San Francisco all the way downtown

Taigi Smith (29:28)
We're in the Bay Bridge like collapsed and my mother the one thing she did That was sort of like what we would do now, right? But she had an earthquake plan And she'd always say like no matter where I am if there's an earthquake You're gonna walk down Mission Street and I'm gonna walk up Mission Street And and that's like the main street in set or one of the main streets in San Francisco It like goes all the way up from the top of San Francisco all the way downtown

Eileen Kelly (29:59)
And she's like we're gonna walk and we're gonna meet each other and we're and if you do that We'll find each other in the earthquake and I'll be darned I was at the library when this big earthquake comes and I was working on my college essay

Taigi Smith (29:59)
And she's like we're gonna walk and we're gonna meet each other and we're and if you do that We'll find each other in the earthquake and I'll be darned I was at the library when this big earthquake comes and I was working on my college essay

Eileen Kelly (30:14)
we're gonna meet your will find each other no matter what cuz there's no cell phone right and This you know I'm in the library of a city in the middle of an earthquake and it's building you are shaking shaking. I'm alone Yeah,

Taigi Smith (30:14)
we're gonna meet your will find each other no matter what cuz there's no cell phone right and This you know I'm in the library of a city in the middle of an earthquake and it's building you are shaking shaking. I'm alone Yeah,

Eileen Kelly (30:30)
So we meet. She's coming down. She's coming up mission and I'm coming down. And the city is crumbled. There's my god. when the earthquakes come, like my mom always told me like the tectonic plates a shift. And so the ground starts cracking. So you will see all these cracks under the ground.

Taigi Smith (30:30)
So we meet. She's coming down. She's coming up mission and I'm coming down. And the city is crumbled. There's my god. when the earthquakes come, like my mom always told me like the tectonic plates a shift. And so the ground starts cracking. So you will see all these cracks under the ground.

Eileen Kelly (30:51)
Windows were shattered, certain parts of San Francisco were just decimated, destroyed. Our building was fine. I think we had broken everyone was so afraid. Like, is it going to come back? Is it going to happen again? aftershocks. Yeah, the aftershocks. So we were afraid, but

Taigi Smith (30:51)
Windows were shattered, certain parts of San Francisco were just decimated, destroyed. Our building was fine. I think we had broken everyone was so afraid. Like, is it going to come back? Is it going to happen again? aftershocks. Yeah, the aftershocks. So we were afraid, but

Eileen Kelly (31:10)
worked.

Taigi Smith (31:10)
worked.

Eileen Kelly (31:11)
after school? It's after school. I'm gonna say it's about, I don't know, three o'clock in the afternoon? It's been many years, but it was about three. And the library just starts shaking. And you know it, when you grew up in San Francisco, you know what an earthquake feels like, and we've had drills.

Taigi Smith (31:11)
after school? It's after school. I'm gonna say it's about, I don't know, three o'clock in the afternoon? It's been many years, but it was about three. And the library just starts shaking. And you know it, when you grew up in San Francisco, you know what an earthquake feels like, and we've had drills.

Eileen Kelly (31:30)
Remember was it last year when we had one here? Yeah, You know to you that is obviously nothing and also you're used to it But I was like wait a minute because sometimes if something's uneven in the dryer And it's right next to my office. I'll feel the house like shock a little bit But I was like this feels like a lot more than that. Yeah, the whole earth is shaking Wow, you know and so everybody got under the table like we all got under tables at the library and

Taigi Smith (31:30)
Remember was it last year when we had one here? Yeah, You know to you that is obviously nothing and also you're used to it But I was like wait a minute because sometimes if something's uneven in the dryer And it's right next to my office. I'll feel the house like shock a little bit But I was like this feels like a lot more than that. Yeah, the whole earth is shaking Wow, you know and so everybody got under the table like we all got under tables at the library and

Eileen Kelly (31:59)
And it lasted a few seconds and then you kind of take a look around and it's like, okay, everybody, I guess the library is closed now. And I walked down Mission Street just like she said to do. I don't think the buses, the buses weren't running because the cables had come down. was debris in the street

Taigi Smith (31:59)
And it lasted a few seconds and then you kind of take a look around and it's like, okay, everybody, I guess the library is closed now. And I walked down Mission Street just like she said to do. I don't think the buses, the buses weren't running because the cables had come down. was debris in the street

Eileen Kelly (32:20)
we met.

Taigi Smith (32:20)
we met.

Eileen Kelly (32:22)
Yeah, you're just walking. Yeah, it had to have been a mile or so. there are lots of other people, but you're just scanning the sidewalks. There was my mother, just like she said she would show up. Oh my God. That's like cinematic. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I mean,

Taigi Smith (32:22)
Yeah, you're just walking. Yeah, it had to have been a mile or so. there are lots of other people, but you're just scanning the sidewalks. There was my mother, just like she said she would show up. Oh my God. That's like cinematic. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I mean,

Eileen Kelly (32:40)
The whole city didn't collapse. Like there were some parts that were in shambles, but it's still really scary, right? Cause the power is out. And you don't know when the next one's coming. You don't know when it's coming. There's glass everywhere. And it's this event that you spend a lifetime waiting for. Because we'd always like, we have fire drills now or unfortunately like terrorism drills or active shooter drills. We had earthquake drills. You know, and.

Taigi Smith (32:40)
The whole city didn't collapse. Like there were some parts that were in shambles, but it's still really scary, right? Cause the power is out. And you don't know when the next one's coming. You don't know when it's coming. There's glass everywhere. And it's this event that you spend a lifetime waiting for. Because we'd always like, we have fire drills now or unfortunately like terrorism drills or active shooter drills. We had earthquake drills. You know, and.

Eileen Kelly (33:10)
I'm glad we didn't grow up in a time where we had to do active shooter. ⁓ my god, I know. I know. Because there's a whole other layer too. know, a natural disaster is one thing, but someone with nefarious intentions coming after... ⁓

Taigi Smith (33:10)
I'm glad we didn't grow up in a time where we had to do active shooter. ⁓ my god, I know. I know. Because there's a whole other layer too. know, a natural disaster is one thing, but someone with nefarious intentions coming after... ⁓

Eileen Kelly (33:32)
school, children, community, teachers, it really shakes you to your core that it's even possible. It happens so much. Right. Yeah. It's happened so much that I don't even hear about them anymore. People don't care. I feel like in the 90s, like that Colorado shooting in Middleton was... Columbine. Or Columbine was the first that I was aware of this phenomenon. Yeah.

Taigi Smith (33:32)
school, children, community, teachers, it really shakes you to your core that it's even possible. It happens so much. Right. Yeah. It's happened so much that I don't even hear about them anymore. People don't care. I feel like in the 90s, like that Colorado shooting in Middleton was... Columbine. Or Columbine was the first that I was aware of this phenomenon. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (34:02)
heard of anything like that. was the first, I don't know that it was the first big one. I think there was a mass shooting at like Ohio State in Ohio. Well Kent State, but that was that was the army, that was the the army shot students. Like the, what do call them?

Taigi Smith (34:02)
heard of anything like that. was the first, I don't know that it was the first big one. I think there was a mass shooting at like Ohio State in Ohio. Well Kent State, but that was that was the army, that was the the army shot students. Like the, what do call them?

Eileen Kelly (34:22)
the military? Yeah, but like the Army Reserve, yeah. Yeah, they shot and killed four Kent State College students. so that wasn't a mass shooting. That wasn't a mass shooting. That was our own government. But

Taigi Smith (34:22)
the military? Yeah, but like the Army Reserve, yeah. Yeah, they shot and killed four Kent State College students. so that wasn't a mass shooting. That wasn't a mass shooting. That was our own government. But

Eileen Kelly (34:37)
But that was the first time, and also the first time I ever heard of a child doing that. know? Like it was just, I remember that moment. Like I remember being in my living room, watching it, and just being so stunned. Like this can't be real. And yet it is. And then it was just like, this is the new reality now. This is the new normal. This is the new normal. Yeah. And to the point where, then I felt like, I don't know,

Taigi Smith (34:37)
But that was the first time, and also the first time I ever heard of a child doing that. know? Like it was just, I remember that moment. Like I remember being in my living room, watching it, and just being so stunned. Like this can't be real. And yet it is. And then it was just like, this is the new reality now. This is the new normal. This is the new normal. Yeah. And to the point where, then I felt like, I don't know,

Eileen Kelly (35:06)
through the early 2000s we were hearing about them, hearing about them, and now it's so normal you don't even hear about them. don't hear because they're not national news, they're just local news. People are desensitized. But it can happen at any time. know, and what I learned as a journalist, because we do active shooter trainings a couple times a year. ⁓ really? And I would come home and I'd say, okay, you know, if

Taigi Smith (35:06)
through the early 2000s we were hearing about them, hearing about them, and now it's so normal you don't even hear about them. don't hear because they're not national news, they're just local news. People are desensitized. But it can happen at any time. know, and what I learned as a journalist, because we do active shooter trainings a couple times a year. ⁓ really? And I would come home and I'd say, okay, you know, if

Eileen Kelly (35:32)
If somebody, a shooter comes in, you you take your thick books and you put the books over your chest as you run. So that if they're shooting at you, it won't, if you hit you, like there's a buffer or they'll teach you to like weave as you're running. Don't run in a straight line. Just keep weaving and weaving or, um,

Taigi Smith (35:32)
If somebody, a shooter comes in, you you take your thick books and you put the books over your chest as you run. So that if they're shooting at you, it won't, if you hit you, like there's a buffer or they'll teach you to like weave as you're running. Don't run in a straight line. Just keep weaving and weaving or, um,

Eileen Kelly (35:54)
The fire marshal told us, like, moms, if you have young children, like those shoes with the lights, you don't wanna use those, because the shooters, that's just gonna attract the shooter. You know, don't have, turn Take something fun and make it into something terrifying. my God, yeah. It's like, what the fuck? So, as a journalist, have you, I mean, I know, like with,

Taigi Smith (35:54)
The fire marshal told us, like, moms, if you have young children, like those shoes with the lights, you don't wanna use those, because the shooters, that's just gonna attract the shooter. You know, don't have, turn Take something fun and make it into something terrifying. my God, yeah. It's like, what the fuck? So, as a journalist, have you, I mean, I know, like with,

Eileen Kelly (36:19)
What was the white powder that was sent to several journalists? my God. was, ⁓ gosh, I can't remember. can't either. I know that, I know that journalists have been targeted in the past, like with, you know, terrorist, ⁓

Taigi Smith (36:19)
What was the white powder that was sent to several journalists? my God. was, ⁓ gosh, I can't remember. can't either. I know that, I know that journalists have been targeted in the past, like with, you know, terrorist, ⁓

Eileen Kelly (36:37)
threats and actions, when in your career did it become something that needed to be addressed and sort of like train, there was training for it? I think once, probably after 9-11. Yeah. ⁓ When it became clear that,

Taigi Smith (36:37)
threats and actions, when in your career did it become something that needed to be addressed and sort of like train, there was training for it? I think once, probably after 9-11. Yeah. ⁓ When it became clear that,

Eileen Kelly (36:55)
that we can be targeted yeah right yeah and and also after the Oklahoma bombings you know like that and the first terrorist attack at the World Trade Center back in the early 90s right

Taigi Smith (36:55)
that we can be targeted yeah right yeah and and also after the Oklahoma bombings you know like that and the first terrorist attack at the World Trade Center back in the early 90s right

Eileen Kelly (37:07)
I remember being at work and I think it was 92 and remember messengers, bike messengers? And a lot of them were like a little bit crazy.

Taigi Smith (37:07)
I remember being at work and I think it was 92 and remember messengers, bike messengers? And a lot of them were like a little bit crazy.

Eileen Kelly (37:22)
I worked in film publicity. It was always like, get this screener to this place or whatever. And so we had messenger, bike messengers coming and going.

Taigi Smith (37:22)
I worked in film publicity. It was always like, get this screener to this place or whatever. And so we had messenger, bike messengers coming and going.

Eileen Kelly (37:31)
a lot of like crazy talk sometimes. it was like, okay, yeah, like they'd be telling you whatever and you'd be like, okay, great. Yeah, here's this package, get going. And I remember this guy coming with like black soot on him and I was like, what, are you okay? And he's like, I just helped pull people out of the World Trade Center. And I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, a bomb went off and I was pulling people out. And then he just like,

Taigi Smith (37:31)
a lot of like crazy talk sometimes. it was like, okay, yeah, like they'd be telling you whatever and you'd be like, okay, great. Yeah, here's this package, get going. And I remember this guy coming with like black soot on him and I was like, what, are you okay? And he's like, I just helped pull people out of the World Trade Center. And I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, a bomb went off and I was pulling people out. And then he just like,

Eileen Kelly (37:59)
on his way and was like, messagering packages. And I was like, that guy's nuts. And then turn on the TV and lo and behold, it was like, again, like wow, this is possible. Yeah, it was surreal. Yeah, so surreal. Especially because you were in New York then and I was in New York as well. I think that it was something that everyone felt, but...

Taigi Smith (37:59)
on his way and was like, messagering packages. And I was like, that guy's nuts. And then turn on the TV and lo and behold, it was like, again, like wow, this is possible. Yeah, it was surreal. Yeah, so surreal. Especially because you were in New York then and I was in New York as well. I think that it was something that everyone felt, but...

Eileen Kelly (38:29)
If you lived in New York, you felt it differently. Oh, totally. I mean, was, I was talking about the first bombing in 90s. Oh, okay. But then I was also in New York for the second For the second And absolutely it was different. It was different, right? Like the posters, the missing. I was at CBS News at the time and my job...

Taigi Smith (38:29)
If you lived in New York, you felt it differently. Oh, totally. I mean, was, I was talking about the first bombing in 90s. Oh, okay. But then I was also in New York for the second For the second And absolutely it was different. It was different, right? Like the posters, the missing. I was at CBS News at the time and my job...

Eileen Kelly (38:50)
was I had to go out and interview people who were putting up. Who were missing someone. posters and just talk to them like, know, or can you tell me who you're looking for? And you know, I still remember it. And I remember

Taigi Smith (38:50)
was I had to go out and interview people who were putting up. Who were missing someone. posters and just talk to them like, know, or can you tell me who you're looking for? And you know, I still remember it. And I remember

Eileen Kelly (39:09)
morning.

Taigi Smith (39:09)
morning.

Eileen Kelly (39:11)
I got the last subway train out of Brooklyn and I was like, okay, well I'm going into the newsroom, I'm going to work, like I'm probably not gonna be home for a while. And I had a dog and I, his little Yorkie, and I'm like, well could either leave the dog in the house, but.

Taigi Smith (39:11)
I got the last subway train out of Brooklyn and I was like, okay, well I'm going into the newsroom, I'm going to work, like I'm probably not gonna be home for a while. And I had a dog and I, his little Yorkie, and I'm like, well could either leave the dog in the house, but.

Eileen Kelly (39:30)
I don't know when I'm coming back. And I was a single woman. And so I was like, all right, I guess we all got to go to the newsroom. And I brought my Yorkie with me. we were there for like a week. And they just put us up in the hotel because we couldn't get back. the buses weren't running, the trains weren't running. And then we were just covering the event 24 hours a day.

Taigi Smith (39:30)
I don't know when I'm coming back. And I was a single woman. And so I was like, all right, I guess we all got to go to the newsroom. And I brought my Yorkie with me. we were there for like a week. And they just put us up in the hotel because we couldn't get back. the buses weren't running, the trains weren't running. And then we were just covering the event 24 hours a day.

Eileen Kelly (39:59)
Yeah, I mean, just being a person, not a journalist, just a citizen of New York at that time and go to the grocery store and like, I remember comforting a woman who was an older woman who was just like, I can't find my son. And she was so lost.

Taigi Smith (39:59)
Yeah, I mean, just being a person, not a journalist, just a citizen of New York at that time and go to the grocery store and like, I remember comforting a woman who was an older woman who was just like, I can't find my son. And she was so lost.

Eileen Kelly (40:20)
And that has haunted me for the whole rest of my life. Like I can't even imagine the amount of stories that you've got stored inside you after talking to so many people. Because at, at, you know, in the beginning there was a, there was hope. Yeah. It was like they're missing. Maybe they didn't make it to work that day. Maybe, maybe they're walking home. Maybe they needed to stop somewhere. You know, it was such anarchy, you know, people were walking across the bridge.

Taigi Smith (40:20)
And that has haunted me for the whole rest of my life. Like I can't even imagine the amount of stories that you've got stored inside you after talking to so many people. Because at, at, you know, in the beginning there was a, there was hope. Yeah. It was like they're missing. Maybe they didn't make it to work that day. Maybe, maybe they're walking home. Maybe they needed to stop somewhere. You know, it was such anarchy, you know, people were walking across the bridge.

Eileen Kelly (40:50)
And it was like maybe they just went with friends somewhere else just to be with people you know and then the days turned into weeks, and it was like no And now we have a whole generation I get so when I talk to my kid about it like there's empathy, but they don't understand I don't think the depth

Taigi Smith (40:50)
And it was like maybe they just went with friends somewhere else just to be with people you know and then the days turned into weeks, and it was like no And now we have a whole generation I get so when I talk to my kid about it like there's empathy, but they don't understand I don't think the depth

Eileen Kelly (41:12)
of the loss. Yeah, I don't think it's like how we didn't understand the depth of Vietnam, the depth of World War II. And yeah, like, I know my mother, for sure, like carried a sadness, like an ever present sadness. She lost a brother in World War II. She was 110. So

Taigi Smith (41:12)
of the loss. Yeah, I don't think it's like how we didn't understand the depth of Vietnam or the depth of World War II. And yeah, like, I know my mother, for sure, like carried a sadness, like an ever present sadness. She lost a brother in World War II and she was 110. So

Eileen Kelly (41:34)
She lost a brother at Pearl Harbor and lost two younger siblings.

Taigi Smith (41:35)
She lost a brother at Pearl Harbor and lost her sibling, two younger siblings.

And lost two younger siblings to tuberculosis. it was like that, like we cannot fathom that that could happen, right? Like pre-vaccines for certain diseases. it's like.

Eileen Kelly (41:42)
and lost two younger siblings to tuberculosis. So it was like that, like we cannot fathom.

that that could happen, ⁓ right? Like pre-vaccines for certain diseases. And it's like

people dying of measles, people dying of tuberculosis, people dying or being crippled of polio. Like we don't get that. My mother still talks about it because she was raised partly in Pennsylvania and she remembers the TB outbreak and so many people that she knew, family members passed away.

Taigi Smith (41:58)
People dying of measles, people dying of tuberculosis, people dying or being crippled of polio. Like, we don't get that. My mother still talks about it because she raised partly in Pennsylvania and she remembers the TB outbreak and so many people that she knew, family members passed away. Yeah. Right.

Eileen Kelly (42:19)
And so I remember growing up where she was like terrified. Like if she started to cough, it

Taigi Smith (42:19)
And so I remember growing up where she was like terrified. Like if she started to cough. Yeah.

Oh my gosh, you know, I gotta go to the doctor. I can't get TB. I get tuberculosis. Right. And you're like, tuberculosis? Right. But I mean, that was a very real fear because she saw it. Yeah, I know. And I think there's

Eileen Kelly (42:26)
was like, oh my gosh, you know, I gotta go to the doctor. I can't get TB. I can't get tuberculosis. And I'm like, tuberculosis? Yeah, TB. that was a very real fear because she saw it. Yeah, I know. And I think...

There's a, it's like every generation has their own 9-11, right? They have their own World War II. They have their own,

Taigi Smith (42:48)
a it's like every generation has their own 9-11, right? They have their own World War Two. They have their own.

Eileen Kelly (42:56)
you know, you just hope it's not as far reaching as some of them have been, you know,

Taigi Smith (42:56)
You know, you just hope it's not as far reaching as some of them have been, you know, but

Eileen Kelly (43:03)
kids can understand and I'm glad. Yeah, me too.

Taigi Smith (43:03)
our kids can understand and I'm glad. Yeah, me too.

I mean, we we know it as parents, but it's not our lived experience to go through active shooter drills as well. Eight year old, that's their fear. I mean, our fear.

Eileen Kelly (43:07)
I mean, we know it as parents, but it's not our lived experience to go through active shooter drills as an eight-year-old. that's their fear. I mean, our fear...

was are we gonna have a nuclear bomb dropped on us? And that really, I can remember walking around with that fear. And seeing signs that said fallout shelter. Totally. And our parents were told they could duck and cover and be under a desk, And that gave them some solace even though it was complete BS. But we knew better. I remember the paper coming out with

Taigi Smith (43:20)
was are we gonna have a nuclear bomb dropped on us? And that really, I can remember walking around with that fear. And seeing signs that said fallout shelter. Totally. And our parents were told they could duck and cover and be under a desk, And that gave them some solace even though it was complete BS. But we knew better. I remember the paper coming out with

Eileen Kelly (43:47)
what would happen if a bomb hits New York City? How's it going to go? as it goes out to New Jersey and Connecticut and Pennsylvania, what's going to happen? How are these people going to be affected? How are these people going to? And I remember just like being riveted to this article, reading it and thinking, I live close enough to New York that I'm just going to go like, thank goodness.

Taigi Smith (43:47)
what would happen if a bomb hits New York City? How's it going to go? as it goes out to New Jersey and Connecticut and Pennsylvania, what's going to happen? How are these people going to be affected? How are these people going to? And I remember just like being riveted to this article, reading it and thinking, I live close enough to New York that I'm just going to go like, thank goodness.

Eileen Kelly (44:14)
You know, and having that thought as like a, I don't know, 13 year old. Being like, thank God I'll die fast. Oh my God. Yeah. And there were all those movies. Oh my God. The day after. The day after. Yeah. The day after. There was like a news report. It felt real. And I remember at the time I had a brother-in-law who was a cop and all these people were calling.

Taigi Smith (44:14)
You know, and having that thought as like a, I don't know, 13 year old. Being like, thank God I'll die fast. Oh my God. Yeah. And there were all those movies. Oh my God. The day after. The day after. Yeah. The day after. There was like a news report. It felt real. And I remember at the time I had a brother-in-law who was a cop and all these people were calling.

Eileen Kelly (44:36)
the police station because they thought it was real. The movie. Yeah, even though they had a ticker that came up every now and again saying like this is fictional. I guess people didn't see it or whatever. It freaked people out. yeah, it was awful. That movie scarred me. And it was also like there's nothing any of us could do about it. And the day after it's like there's the gray ash coming and you know people are dying for rain.

Taigi Smith (44:36)
the police station because they thought it was real. The movie. Yeah, even though they had a ticker that came up every now and again saying like this is fictional. I guess people didn't see it or whatever. It freaked people out. yeah, it was awful. That movie scarred me. And it was also like there's nothing any of us could do about it. And the day after it's like there's the gray ash coming and you know people are dying for rain.

Eileen Kelly (45:06)
Yeah, sickness. yeah, I'm slow miserable death. There's no food Yeah, and we watched it as kids, you know, it was just like wow that my that was traumatizing Traumatizing Yeah, yeah, I don't agree with showing that to kids. I feel like we were told to watch it in school

Taigi Smith (45:06)
Yeah, sickness. yeah, I'm slow miserable death. There's no food Yeah, and we watched it as kids, you know, it was just like wow that my that was traumatizing Traumatizing Yeah, yeah, I don't agree with showing that to kids. I feel like we were told to watch it in school

Eileen Kelly (45:28)
Yeah, it was a cautionary tale. And it's like, I don't have my finger on the button. What the freak am I supposed to do about it? That, the challenger. So we just had the space shuttle go off, right? How did? I can't watch them. I don't watch them. don't watch any of it because of the challenger. I'm like, fool me once. You're not going to fool me twice. Right? No. I thought at some point.

Taigi Smith (45:28)
Yeah, it was a cautionary tale. And it's like, I don't have my finger on the button. What the freak am I supposed to do about it? That, the challenger. So we just had the space shuttle go off, right? How did? I can't watch them. I don't watch them. don't watch any of it because of the challenger. I'm like, fool me once. You're not going to fool me twice. Right? No. I thought at some point.

Eileen Kelly (45:55)
someone was gonna teach a class on what happened on the challenger. Like it was crickets. Like we're celebrating as you know, everyone was really excited about this last launch. And I'm like, does anybody remember? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like hello, have you been here before? Maybe just no.

Taigi Smith (45:55)
someone was gonna teach a class on what happened on the challenger. Like it was crickets. Like we're celebrating as you know, everyone was really excited about this last launch. And I'm like, does anybody remember? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like hello, have you been here before? Maybe just no.

Eileen Kelly (46:14)
Maybe just, let's all stay here. Yeah, let's not televised. out here. How about that? Yeah, and I'll go one better. Let's not even do it. I know people are excited. I'm not. I'm like, could we just figure out our crap down here and let the stars be the stars? Or if you're gonna do it.

Taigi Smith (46:14)
Maybe just, let's all stay here. Yeah, let's not televised. out here. How about that? Yeah, and I'll go one better. Let's not even do it. I know people are excited. I'm not. I'm like, could we just figure out our crap down here and let the stars be the stars? Or if you're gonna do it.

Eileen Kelly (46:35)
It doesn't, I don't think it needs to be a big national thing. after they're safe. Yeah, let's celebrate afterwards. exactly. Don't put the whammy on them. We've seen that before. And by the way, we watched it in the middle of school. And then that was like, no, this isn't. Yeah. And then it was just like, all right, I guess we have a spelling test.

Taigi Smith (46:35)
It doesn't, I don't think it needs to be a big national thing. after they're safe. Yeah, let's celebrate afterwards. exactly. Don't put the whammy on them. We've seen that before. And by the way, we watched it in the middle of school. And then that was like, no, this isn't. Yeah. And then it was just like, all right, I guess we have a spelling test.

Eileen Kelly (47:02)
It was like there was no therapy. There was no talking through it. There was no processing it at all. We were all just like, just happened? And it was just like, all right, back to business as usual then. I guess that's that. What happened to the teacher?

Taigi Smith (47:02)
It was like there was no therapy. There was no talking through it. There was no processing it at all. We were all just like, just happened? And it was just like, all right, back to business as usual then. I guess that's that. What happened to the teacher?

Eileen Kelly (47:23)
Because there was that the teacher was on board, remember? So it was as a kid, it felt very much like, that's a teacher just like my teacher. And then it's like, where did the teacher go? It was terrible. was terrible. And I can say my school did not deal with it at all.

Taigi Smith (47:23)
Because there was that the teacher was on board, remember? So it was as a kid, it felt very much like, that's a teacher just like my teacher. And then it's like, where did the teacher go? It was terrible. was terrible. And I can say my school did not deal with it at all.

Eileen Kelly (47:43)
It was just like, all right, take out your pencils.

Taigi Smith (47:43)
It was just like, all right, take out your pencils.

Eileen Kelly (47:49)
God. Just keep it moving. I think the biggest Gen X thing that I can remember is I went to the Prince Purple Rain concert. Oh, my gosh. My mother took me. Was that 1984, 85? About 84, 85, and I wore one glove. Oh, my Because remember when like...

Taigi Smith (47:49)
God. Just keep it moving. I think the biggest Gen X thing that I can remember is I went to the Prince Purple Rain concert. Oh, my gosh. My mother took me. Was that 1984, 85? About 84, 85. And I wore one glove. Oh, my Because remember when like...

Eileen Kelly (48:12)
We'd all have our Madonna outfits on. Yeah, the rubber bracelets. Yeah, the bracelets. So I had the lace, one lace glove on. I don't know what else I had on. That was as much as I think I had, but That's iconic. Wow.

Taigi Smith (48:12)
We'd all have our Madonna outfits on. Yeah, the rubber bracelets. Yeah, the bracelets. So I had the lace, one lace glove on. I don't know what else I had on. That was as much as I think I had, but That's iconic. Wow.

Eileen Kelly (48:29)
Was that your first concert? was my first That's a killer first concert. was a killer first My first concert was Springsteen and I feel like that ranks up there too as a Jersey girl. Oh sure, oh absolutely. it was like, you know, was like the Born in the USA concert. Like that was like an iconic moment in time. sure. Purple Rain was the scene. Purple It was like you were going to some little side show. were like at that...

Taigi Smith (48:29)
Was that your first concert? was my first That's a killer first concert. was a killer first My first concert was Springsteen and I feel like that ranks up there too as a Jersey girl. Oh sure, oh absolutely. it was like, you know, was like the Born in the USA concert. Like that was like an iconic moment in time. sure. Purple Rain was the scene. Purple It was like you were going to some little side show. were like at that...

Eileen Kelly (48:54)
history in the making. Springsteen imprints like we had it made. We had it made. We were lucky. Those are good memories.

Taigi Smith (48:54)
history in the making. Springsteen imprints like we had it made. We had it made. We were lucky. Those are good memories.

Eileen Kelly (49:03)
Well, it was so lovely having you here. Good being here. This was fun. Yeah, we have to do it again. I would love to have you back anytime. Tuxedo back. Look, he's a pro now. Tuxedo's now laying under the table here. He realized he was going to get in trouble. I'm kidding. Yeah, this was fun. was fun. See you next time. Bye.

Taigi Smith (49:03)
Well, it was so lovely having you here. Good being here. This was fun. Yeah, we have to do it again. I would love to have you back anytime. Tuxedo back. Look, he's a pro now. Tuxedo's now laying under the table here. He realized he was going to get in trouble. I'm kidding. Yeah, this was fun. was fun. See you next time. Bye.