Toxic Gen X Bullshit

This week, Eileen meets a real-life stranger on the internet but you would have never known without us saying so.  Special guest Kira Sabin joins the show this week to talk all things Gen X. From comfort toxic television, trauma,  the perimenopause madness,  to learning how to break the patterns that most of us weren't even aware existed. Kira and Eileen connect and cackle their way through the toxicity that Gen X collectively wears as a badge of honor. Things get a little nutso in the buttso, but it's time we talked about it. 

Connect With Kira

Kira is a personal coach who has over 18 years of experience helping people, primarily women, quiet their overthinking, realize their self-worth, build unshakeable relationships, or uncover more little moments of joy throughout their day. A self-proclaimed Hope Dealer helping others channel their rage. 

Kira offers group intensive coaching programs, personalized 1:1 midlife edit coaching, and inspiring retreats designed specifically for women who want clarity, confidence, and joy—without the BS. No fluff, just results. 
https://www.thrivewithkira.com/work-with-kira

Listen To Her Podcast: Thrive With Kira Podcast 
https://www.thrivewithkira.com/podcast


Follow Kira Here 
IG: https://www.instagram.com/thrivewithkira
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ ⁨@kirasabin⁩  
TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@thrivewithkira


Chapters List 
00:00 Introduction and Excitement for Podcasting
05:07 Exploring Gen X and Historical Context
07:29 The Power Dynamics of Gen X Women
10:22 Navigating Aging and Life Challenges
13:00 Media Influence and Societal Norms
16:00 Trauma and Unspoken Experiences of Gen X
18:56 Addressing Past Harms and Healing
21:38 Numbing and Coping Mechanisms of Our Generation
24:16 Numbing Mechanisms and the Need for Healing
25:49 Encouraging Emotional Healing in Men
27:17 The Impact of Generational Trauma
29:21 Empowerment and Emotional Expression
31:32 Processing Trauma and Compassion
33:04 Breaking the Cycle of Silence
34:24 Navigating Parenting and Emotional Validation
36:13 The Humor in Childhood Experiences
39:06 Cultural Connections Through Food
41:23 Social Anxiety and Coping Mechanisms
47:17 Nostalgia and Television as a Babysitter
49:51 Cultural Influence of Past Generations
52:35 Romantic Comedies and Their Impact
55:20 Gender Dynamics and Societal Expectations
59:17 Breaking Generational Cycles
01:03:18 Navigating Relationships and Emotional Health
01:09:23 Sibling Abuse and Family Dynamics
01:11:11 Generational Trauma and Parenting Challenges
01:14:05 Healing and Empowerment of Gen X Women
01:16:49 Work-Life Balance and Generational Differences
01:19:03 Setting Boundaries and Self-Advocacy
01:22:03 Reflections on Childhood and Cultural Shifts
01:24:35 Humor Across Generations and Its Impact
01:31:24 FULLSWKOUTRO.mp4

Transcript

Kira Sabin (00:00)
I have zero interest in continuing to live my life, like giving only output to others and being exhausted. And I think that that's the gift of my life. I think that's a gift of you know, everything is like you don't have enough time or energy to do it all. So you have to start getting real honest about what the hell actually matters.

Eileen Kelly (00:08)
Yes.

No.

Eileen Kelly (00:47)
Welcome to Strangers with Kittens. I'm Eileen Kelly and I'm really glad you're here because today I am interviewing a woman who I actually this is gonna be the first time I'm talking to her, but I just love her content on Instagram so much that I just reached out to her and I was like, you are so fun and positive and I want

Meet you and talk to you. And she was like, Great, let's talk. I want to read you just an intro from her website because it's so pertinent and I just love it so much. It says, think we all knew midlife was a thing, but what in the actual fuck is this nonsense? One minute you're rocking life, and the next your hormones are playing Jenga with your emotions, your relationships feel meh, you don't remember why you entered the room, and you're Googling, is this normal? Way too.

Often. Midlife might also be the time you realize that the person you thought you were going to be didn't happen, and the life you hoped for might not have turned out like you thought it would. And that realization can throw you off. Good news, you're not broken, you're just in a weird transition that no one taught us how to navigate. Most of our ancestors were dead by this age 150 years ago. Which I love that perspective. So let's figure out how to navigate it. Please welcome my guest.

Kira Saban.

Eileen Kelly (02:10)
my god, Kara Saban. Is it the is David Cassidy in the house? What? Hello! He He did. You're hello. I'm so excited. I I gotta tell you, I was just reaching out to you on Instagram because I loved your content so much, and you were like, hello, back. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, this is so great.

Kira Sabin (02:12)
Ha!

⁓ didn't David Cassidy pass away a couple of years ago but

Yeah.

sorry.

easily excitable. I'm not gonna lie. I'm easily excitable and I love doing podcasts. They're so fun, right?

Eileen Kelly (02:39)
Me too, so we're a good team. I'm so glad and

I'm loving your 80s glasses. Look at my 70s glasses. they're all dirty and smudged. But look, look at us through the decades, Gen X through the decades.

Kira Sabin (02:48)
Mm-hmm. Love it.

I know, I know. I think

⁓ the gift of multiple glasses is one of the most beautiful things about twenty twenty-six, right? I have about twenty pairs. Yep.

Eileen Kelly (03:01)
Me too. I just bought myself a new pair. I really don't need another

one, but I was like, I like those. Yeah, the readers are fun now.

Kira Sabin (03:13)
this these are these are normal

glasses. I also have like six pairs of readers. I have I have the gift of both. ⁓ look at you, LASIK.

Eileen Kelly (03:18)
Okay. I got the l I got the LASIK back in 2000. So I had I had contact lenses in eighth

grade. It was way ahead of the curve. And ⁓ and then got the LASIK in in 2000. So I'm pretty I'm pretty good at a distance. From a distance. Yeah. my god. Don't you love it when someone just picks up the energy that you're laying down? It's so much fun.

Kira Sabin (03:36)
The world is black and white. Sorry.

I listen, this is let's

I am so ready to talk, Gen X. I am so ready to talk the 70s, the 80s, the 90s. ⁓ and all of the, and you don't know this about me, but I particularly study history, like history of dating, history of love, history of romantic or relationships, history of women. so I'll probably definitely be, did you know?

Eileen Kelly (03:48)
my goodness. Yes.

Mm.

Drop in a few

historical facts on us, yes.

Kira Sabin (04:13)
it but it's

but you know it's so funny because I've become interested just in the last five years in history and I could not have given a shit in my 20s and 30s. I was like history what

Eileen Kelly (04:22)
Yeah, I think that's

yeah, no. But I d I do think that's the natural progression of things is to kind of look backward and and to wanna gain more. Once you you're old enough to realize you don't know much at all, then you wanna look back at the wisdom and and gain some for yourself.

Kira Sabin (04:34)
Right.

Absolutely. And you also just start going wait, haven't we been through this before? Haven't we fought for this shit before? Can I can I swear?

Eileen Kelly (04:43)
Yes! Yes! Deja

vu all over again. Yeah, totally.

Kira Sabin (04:50)
and you know, and so it's just been fascinating looking through history of just how we got here, you know, so that we can use it for change and it's pretty crazy.

Eileen Kelly (04:59)
Yeah, and it's so crazy that some people look at by the way, in case if if you're hearing our live studio audience in the background, because the mailman may be delivering mail, I don't know. That's just the rowdy live studio audience. but yeah, I'm watching

Kira Sabin (05:07)
I love them.

Eileen Kelly (05:15)
My friends make fun of me because I'm always watching these masterpiece theater period dramas. and I just finished god, it takes place in Italy on the coast. I can't think Portofino. Ho Hotel Portofino. And it's when the fascists are taking over Italy and it's like this looks familiar.

Kira Sabin (05:19)
yeah, yeah.

Right Right It's it's it's kinda nuts. It's kind of it is really.

Eileen Kelly (05:36)
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's chilling. Yeah, it's really nuts. It's

really nuts. And it's how how are we just watching them march on by? I don't know.

Kira Sabin (05:43)
I

All right. Well Eileen, if we're gonna save the world, we've got some work to do on this podcast. Right? Let's go.

Eileen Kelly (05:53)
I know. Let's roll up our sleeves, sister, 'cause we got a lot of work. Yeah.

No, but I I do think that it's connecting people and talking and just being like, hey, like waking people up and being Hello, this is going on and you are not powerless. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (06:12)
Think, you know what? And I think that that is such a great, I love how I've just become the host. I'm like, I think that's a great segue into a conversation today. No, but and because I've very menopause, I forgot what I was saying.

Eileen Kelly (06:18)
Tell me more about that.

Kira Sabin (06:28)
And you said, you know, sometimes we feel powerless. And I feel like particularly Gen X women, that's not surprising, right? There is this powerlessness that we were taught, right? I don't want to say last generation, but mostly last generation of just your job is here to make other people comfortable. Your job is to make.

Eileen Kelly (06:37)
Right?

Yep.

Kira Sabin (06:50)
the men in your lives' lives easier, whether your life is easier or not. Right. And it's just, I mean, it's it's h I like it's

Eileen Kelly (06:53)
Yep. Yes. Your job is to hold

the family secrets and be silent and act like everything's normal when it's not.

Kira Sabin (07:00)
Yes.

Absolutely. And it's just we are still shedding that. s I'm loving seeing feral Gen X women online just like, let's take it down, you know? Like

Eileen Kelly (07:14)
I've been holding this

in for thirty-five years.

Kira Sabin (07:21)
I know. And I and I I love it because I I really

think we can change the world. And I think we kind of need to. But you know, yeah, it's I know. I I well, I just think we have to because well what who is men? What? Right?

Eileen Kelly (07:29)
Your energy.

Who has? Who has? What? No.

And you're right, because I I I'll tell you, for a while, I do feel like there's here's where I'm gonna get a little woo-woo, but I do feel like there's been s kind of a planetary shift because f life for me anyway, a I'm a Libra has been really hard for many, many years. It's been like ten or eleven years where I did you hear the story? And it may have happened out by you somewhere, and by you I mean anywhere in the Midwest. But

Kira Sabin (08:07)
⁓ Sorry. Sorry. It's so hilarious because like people be like, that's you, right? Wyoming? I'm like, no, Wisconsin. Okay.

Eileen Kelly (08:08)
Smoking like a true East Coaster, right? But

No, that

is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles away. the woman who was stuck in the mud and was discovered by did you hear about this? There was a woman, and I could be embellishing you guys from my just from my own looking through my own Gen X goggles, but I feel like she was like my age and like she fell.

Kira Sabin (08:31)
Listen.

Eileen Kelly (08:40)
In mud, in the woods somewhere hiking or something, and got stuck. First of all, the Gen X quicksand nightmare that we all have feared our entire lives. But she wa but it wasn't quicksand, it just like she was flat on her back in mud up to her nose for two days, and some young guys came by thinking they found a dead body, and she was like, I'm alive.

Kira Sabin (08:48)
Right. Came true.

Eileen Kelly (09:10)
I'm alive. I swear to God, they she scared the living shit out of them and she was alive. And I'm like, I feel like metaphorically speaking, that's me. I'm like, but for 11 years, it's like for 11 years I've been like, I'm alive.

Kira Sabin (09:25)
Just like stuck in the mud, waiting to see if anybody comes by to help.

Eileen Kelly (09:35)
Here someone give me a hand

Kira Sabin (09:40)
Do you think that that is a combination of hormones like perimenopause or menopause? And I mean, cause cause let me tell you right now, nothing else, just planets.

Eileen Kelly (09:40)
Hmm.

No, it's all the planets and nothing else. No. Nothing else with the planets.

No, but I feel like everything's been contributing for sure. I've spoken to other people who've had different but similar, just slogging through mud years that also feel like ⁓

Kira Sabin (10:06)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (10:11)
There's light and sunshine and I can move my limbs again and I don't feel like someone's standing on my head with a boot, you know.

Kira Sabin (10:22)
To me, I'm I mean, I'm glad you don't feel that way anymore. I feel either way some days. Some days I don't. Like I just

Eileen Kelly (10:27)
Yeah, I mean there's

still gonna be days where life gets you down, but ⁓ yeah, I mean I can't attribute it all to hormone replacement therapy, but that helps. But that was like years ago, you know, and I definitely was okay, I can sleep through the night now and I'm not sweating through all my clothes.

Kira Sabin (10:31)
Yeah.

It sure does.

Eileen Kelly (10:46)
But even with with with all the help, ⁓ it still felt really bad. And I do feel like our age group, there's so much to deal with at this age. Aging parents, kids that are struggling, teens and college age and like getting them.

up and out, and on track or what it's it's all so big and so much and all the while our bodies are working against us while we've got all these serious things we need to take care of.

Kira Sabin (11:17)
All the while.

Trying to decide, did our parents just not experience this in the same way or level that we have? Or are they were like, so my mom is like silent generation. She's like right before baby boomer. Right. And so, I I just regularly like, why did you not tell me it was going to be truly this horrible? Like, why did you not? And

Eileen Kelly (11:36)
Mm-hmm. Mine too. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (11:47)
it's really really interesting, but

I have zero interest in continuing to live my life, like giving only output to others and being exhausted. And I think that that's the gift of my life. I think that's a gift of you know, everything is like you don't have enough time or energy to do it all. So you have to start getting real honest about what the hell actually

Eileen Kelly (11:58)
Yes.

No.

Kira Sabin (12:12)
And

Eileen Kelly (12:12)
real discerning

about who you're going to give your energy to.

Kira Sabin (12:16)
Right. And it can't be to assholes. And it can't be to people who are time suck because we don't have the time and energy, right? Because our parents are getting older. And, you know, so many people I know our age, like there is a mass exodus in in marriages right now too, right? So, I'm supportive of everybody feeling good on a daily basis and whatever that feel that looks like. But yeah, it's it's an interesting time to be a Gen X and it's an interesting time to be a woman who's a Gen X because

Eileen Kelly (12:19)
That's right.

Yeah.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Kira Sabin (12:44)
I think part of the hard for me, Eileen, has just been even seeing the younger generations see things that we didn't see about growing up Gen X, the messaging that we were told that was so harmful and awful and

Eileen Kelly (13:00)
Toxic

and destructive. Yeah, sometimes you watch something with your kids and they're like, What the fuck? And you're like, wait, is that messed up? Like that I wait, I think that is messed up. my god, that's really messed up. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (13:15)
Right.

And it's in and to me, it probably started 10 years ago of just when I was online and I was like, ⁓ yeah, that isn't healthy, or that isn't good, or that isn't, you know, and then you just start seeing it more and more. And my husband and I occasionally will dive back into an 80s TV show for fun, like the Love Boat or something. But but he likes to do it more than me because it's so shitty towards women or anybody of of size.

Eileen Kelly (13:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so shitty. Who isn't a white man? Who

isn't a white man? It's so shitty. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (13:46)
Or exact exactly. It's so shitty.

It's like not fun to watch. Cause, you know, guaranteed there's either gonna be a comment about somebody being gay, somebody being fat, something racist. And I'm like, this isn't pleasant to me. Right. All over.

Eileen Kelly (13:51)
No, it's not.

Yep. And sexism right, left and center. It's just

awful. Yeah. it was so prevalent and normalized for us. I mean, my dad was the silent generation and he literally said to my oldest sister when she asked about going to college, he said, why you're just gonna end up barefoot and pregnant anyway?

And this is someone like I grew up in predominantly blue-collar town, but my dad did go to college. He went to Catholic school all the way through, including college, but he was educated and this was his response, you know? And that was just the way it was.

Kira Sabin (14:26)
Interesting.

I hate the scapegoat of, well, it was a different time. And I also it was a different time, right? Like it's just there's so much stuff that's nor that was normalized. And it's and it's hard to explain because when you look back at it, you're like.

Eileen Kelly (14:51)
I know, I do too.

And it's also exhausting.

Yeah. And but I don't I remember I was the youngest of six and I was kind of the big mouth in the family. And I could get away with telling the truth if I if it was funny. And I learned that pretty early on. you did not talk back to my father, but I did if it was funny.

Kira Sabin (15:17)
Interesting.

Got it.

Eileen Kelly (15:24)
And

there were a couple of misses. There were a couple misses here and there where things didn't land the way I'd hoped. But that's how my family was basically like you're the only one that can tell them the truth, right? But those were sort of the parameters. But

There was so much, and it wasn't just my dad. There was so much that was messed up, in society, in my family, in that it was exhausting. And even if you did speak up about 25% of it, it was all the time. Because so much of it was messed up.

Kira Sabin (16:00)
Right.

Exactly. I mean, why would you bring it up? Because everybody you knew was experiencing the same things. Right? Or or the majority of us. I was listening. Yeah. And and just since I am now a new fan of Strangers with Kittens and was listening to the episode before this, I'm afraid I'm not remembering her name, but she was like, I saw three penises before 13 that I didn't ask to see. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (16:08)
Yeah. Yeah. Or to some degree of it, yeah.

No.

Thanks.

Becky Fiduccio. Yeah. And that's

having a cop grandfather who like overprotective and told her how to avoid bad things.

Kira Sabin (16:30)
It

Right, patch the pony. He said, nay nay from strangers, stay away.

Eileen Kelly (16:38)
Yeah, patch the pony. Yeah, I only had that

one. I only had that one scenario. I was like, all right, I'm gonna watch out for that. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (16:46)
But I mean,

yeah, 'cause it was everywhere. it was everywhere, it was prevalent.

Eileen Kelly (16:50)
everywhere. I mean it was the golden

age of the pedophile, that's for sure. It was the golden age of the bully. I have an episode called the golden age of the bully because it was Lord of the Flies, once you left your house. And it was the golden age of the pedophile because there were no adults around. So kids were just getting scooped up left and right.

Kira Sabin (17:09)
It's really it's so so Eileen, I I love that we're talking about this. It's also so weirdly hard to talk about it 'cause I online, there's such a so proud to be Gen X, you know, we didn't need this. We drank water from our hose. We sat in the back of, the old what are the big car

Eileen Kelly (17:27)
Yeah, the way back of

the station wagon with no seat belts or whatever. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (17:29)
Yes, exactly. Like we did us

and we made it through. We rode our bikes everywhere. And I'm also like, Yeah, and nobody knew where we were. And bad things happened to a fucking ton of us, right? Even from each other bullying, like

Eileen Kelly (17:40)
A ton of us and one kid died

from every graduating class. Honestly. the summer after a class graduated, somebody died. And I'm talking a small town, like there were 117 kids in my graduating class. And it's like

Kira Sabin (17:55)
There was a hundred and

twenty in mine. my god, we're the same person, Eileen.

God, yeah. So you n so you know, so you know kind of that that small town.

Eileen Kelly (18:04)
Yeah. And I feel that

way. That that that dichotomy, if that's the correct word, of like it was feral and awesome. It was feral and terrible and terrifying and there's so much trauma.

Kira Sabin (18:19)
And we aren't talking about the trauma. And we aren't we aren't talking about the fact that basically raising ourselves, nobody was there to make sense of the stuff that was that was scary.

Eileen Kelly (18:22)
No.

You just had to carry it. You just had to hold it and carry it. And I I I had a guest on maybe a year and a half ago. His his name is Charlie Shaniayan. And ⁓ he talked about falling on the playground or like woods where teenagers drank beer and would smash bottles, getting a huge piece of glass in his rear end.

Like in it, like had to go home with a shard of glass in his butt cheek. Went home, pulled it out himself, hid his dirty his bloody underwear at the bottom of the garbage can and didn't tell anyone.

Kira Sabin (19:17)
So classic. there are so many things that we didn't tell.

Eileen Kelly (19:19)
It's so Gen X. It's like somehow I'm gonna get in trouble for this,

so I'm just gonna get tetanus and die because that's the better choice.

Kira Sabin (19:28)
I feel sorry. That just it's just so true though, right? because we always thought uh-oh, I'm gonna get in trouble. So I'll just keep that to my yeah, I'll just keep that to myself. But then also

Eileen Kelly (19:37)
for everything. It never went well

when you asked for help, ever.

Kira Sabin (19:43)
Ex so what is the biggest problem with our generation? Asking for help, right? I I work with women all day, every day. And if I had a nickel for every time, well, I don't wanna be an inconvenience. If I you know, for all of the little sayings that we've said to ourselves to not speak up, not say what's right, not say what we feel, you know, it's just it's nuts.

Eileen Kelly (20:05)
Mm-hmm.

Kira Sabin (20:07)
It's not so in the butt so, Eileen, which I feel like you would appreciate. Yes.

Eileen Kelly (20:07)
It really is. It's nut so in the butt so. It's also glass shards in the butt so. It's really bad.

Kira Sabin (20:17)
But I feel like everybody has I mean, we were just kind of running our own I know Lord of the Flies kind of situation, right? We are riding around on our bikes.

Eileen Kelly (20:21)
Stories like that, everyone.

Lord of the flies. And honestly, like you

did not, you my sister got in trouble for getting hit by a car. She was laying in the street and got yelled at. Like it did not go well for you if if anyone else got involved. whatever you were suffering with, you would still suffer with, and then you would be berated on top of it. So we just didn't tell.

Kira Sabin (20:42)
my god. I you know

So we just didn't tell, right? But

and then here we are a bunch of, 40s and 50s, and even now 60 for Gen X, and a lot of us just haven't dealt with it yet. Haven't dealt with some of those those unhelpful stories and beliefs and trauma. Let's just say it.

Eileen Kelly (21:01)
Yeah.

No.

And the

you know, going back to what you were saying earlier about the normalization of watching media from that time and the normalization of criminal behavior, I've had people reach out to me and describe rape and be like, but I think it was okay. I'm like, no, no, no.

Kira Sabin (21:18)
Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (21:38)
That is actually a crime. You were a victim of a crime. And but because we grew up with 16 candles and all of these movies that made it be fine, it's like, wait, what? Like you override your own nervous system, your own warning bells because of everything that we were conditioned with.

Kira Sabin (22:02)
I mean a hundred percent, Eileen. Like a hundred percent. And I hate to tell you, in the last twenty, twenty-five years, I have had tough conversations with a lot of friends, clients who are like, wait, was I was I date raped? Wait, was I raped? they did not kind of equate it to that because, well, we just took it, right? As women, right?

Eileen Kelly (22:17)
Yep.

Because we grew up on Saturday Night Fever and like think about

how many movies it was just normalized.

Kira Sabin (22:34)
It's yeah. It it it is crazy 'cause it was a time where we knew it wasn't normal. That's the interesting thing. It's a time in in a society.

Eileen Kelly (22:40)
Yeah. But it w we were taught to live with

it. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (22:44)
and it's super interesting to be at this time where we have computers and the internet and all of the different things, and there's still people who just don't seek out resources for help. I'm really like love and proud of and frustrated by outer generation. And I'm a little worried we're becoming the next baby boomers.

Eileen Kelly (23:04)
Yeah.

Kira Sabin (23:06)
Like unless we start healing our shit. Because we're grumpy and we're like those kids and those you know what I mean? And I'm like, are we just gonna become continually become part of the problem or are we gonna actually do something about it? Sorry, Eileen, was this the conversation you wanted to have today?

Eileen Kelly (23:06)
I know. I know.

I know. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean I have a no, no. Listen, this

podcast goes from fun to dark to fun to twisted and back again. We'll we'll be okay. but no, I've had people slip into my DMs and be like, this happened to me and you're the only person that knows this, like back in 1983. And I'm like, my god.

I'm so sorry and let's do something about it together, you know. I'm not qualified, but I'll do the best I can, you know? And sometimes people will be like, ⁓ I'll be like, are you talking to a professional? And they'll be like, Jack Daniels, that's who I'm talking to. I'm like, I get it, but maybe let's bring in a third person. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (24:09)
And that's all right. Let's let's talk about our generation numbing.

Right? Like we numb. We numb and it's either with

Eileen Kelly (24:16)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And that also was

normalized. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (24:24)
We numb with TV, with with food, with alcohol, with drugs, with all the things. You know, like

Eileen Kelly (24:32)
Because when

you had to live like that for so long, where things that were super fucked up were normalized, what it's like, I'm gonna need some Nova Cain for this root canal, for this twenty year root canal, you know.

Kira Sabin (24:36)
Survival.

That is the best way to put it, yeah. But like fucking get the root canal, everybody. Just do it. Like get your asses into therapy. Jack Daniels, is not an actual therapist. And nor am I. I'm a coach for that matter. I help in different ways. But like, I just I'll tell you this: like, my husband is in

Eileen Kelly (24:51)
Yeah.

Kira Sabin (25:04)
double therapy right now and it's the best fucking thing I've ever seen in my whole entire life. He is not only doing weekly one-on-one therapy, he's also an immense group where he every other week he just talks to other men who are, you know, emotionally and struggling and and and things like that. And I'll tell you, like the difference in who he is as a healed person is night and day. I'm so fucking proud of him. And I just

Eileen Kelly (25:09)
Mm.

⁓

⁓ gosh, that's amazing.

Kira Sabin (25:28)
I wanna mention that because I wanna normalize us encouraging our husbands, our boyfriends, our brothers, our whatever to get their asses in some kind of healing, even if it starts with a men's group that's, you know, $50 for a year. Like even, right? Because we gotta start healing or we're gonna continue being part of the problem.

Eileen Kelly (25:34)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, it's it's so funny you brought that up because I tend to do an episode with a guest and an episode by myself like I every other, right? And I did this epis I recorded this episode that I haven't published that where I was talking about men of our generation and two men of our generation, exactly what you're saying. And I really believe that our generation of men suffered the most in that

Previous generations had this male camaraderie and then AIDS hit and homophobia was at its absolute height. And I remember

Kira Sabin (26:27)
Interest okay, yeah, yeah.

Eileen Kelly (26:36)
guys just being absolutely brutal to each other and if somebody showed the slightest bit of tenderness or compassion or empathy or or vulnerability they were crucified for it and sometimes lost their whole friend group and were you know branded ⁓ gay in the 80s sense of the word and

Kira Sabin (26:47)
Or vulnerability.

Eileen Kelly (27:02)
you know, what at worse and I feel like they all you either had to adhere to this like really toxic version of masculinity or you were thrown to the wolves.

Kira Sabin (27:17)
Hundred percent. Yeah. You're absolutely you're absolutely right. I kind of have talked on my podcast before about

I love that we are this generation of females with that was started with you can be anything, right? Kind of in that 70s Sesame Street. You know, we really got, I mean, thank God for Sesame Street. Thank God for Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers raising us. Yep. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Because they, I think, are what has instilled the morals we do have. Because questionable.

Eileen Kelly (27:37)
Thank God for Sesame Street and the Electric Company, which taught me how to read. Thank God for the both of them.

for sure. Like I look around at my house and I'm like, I'm gonna go with

what they're saying.

Kira Sabin (27:53)
Yes, right. Cause no one here seems that happy or nice. And Maria and Gordon seem like really good people. Like it's and you know, Big Bird loves them, so I'm I'm in. ⁓ There's a land that I love.

Eileen Kelly (27:58)
No, no.

Yes.

And I will add also free to be you and me.

That album, my sister my sister got me that

album for my birthday. And I'm sure my parents couldn't stand it. It was like, you know, hippie craziness to them. But I was like, well Johnny can have a doll. This is amazing, or whatever that song was. Like I was like, yes.

Kira Sabin (28:30)
Ha ha ha.

But I feel like as girls, we were starting to get raised to do be able to do more, right? Like we were the first generation who said, you can be an astronaut, and we actually could. Like we could be a doctor, and then you weren't, you were still gonna have fights, but it was available to us. On the other side of that, we did not give that same gift to young boys. So we said to girls,

Eileen Kelly (28:49)
Yes.

Kira Sabin (28:55)
You can do anything. You can be strong, you can be smart, you can be ambitious, you can be all of these things. And then we said to boys, nothing. We didn't then give them the gift of, and you can be more emotional. You can actually cry. You can actually express your needs. You can, you know, the thing. And so what we have are these women who are strong, empowered, educated. Like we are so much more educated.

Eileen Kelly (29:07)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kira Sabin (29:22)
You know,

and on a day and it's getting the the gap is getting even bigger in newer generations, right? And it's just like

Eileen Kelly (29:25)
Yes, yeah.

Kira Sabin (29:32)
I have coached plenty of men. I have heard the stories. Nobody got out of this easily, right? Nobody got out of this well. And I also know that when we say to men, do you see your privilege? They don't. Because they went through shit too. It's just different shit. Right? And so we are all super sad and scared and just.

Eileen Kelly (29:38)
No. No.

Yeah. Yep.

Kira Sabin (29:55)
still kind of living in the that in a way that we shouldn't have to in our fifties, you know. I'm fi I just turned fifty three last week, you know, and I don't want to be dealing with shit that happened to me when I was ten anymore.

Eileen Kelly (30:01)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No. No. But at the same time, like I want I I I I've processed so much of it and I I see it from a perspective of I don't regret going through these things because they made me compassionate. They also made me be able to I've got pedophile radar like you wouldn't believe. And ⁓

it's enabled me to keep my kids and other kids safe, you know, so I don't I I think when you can get to a place of A being able to first of all talk about it. Secondly, see it from a different perspective. And thirdly, like like take hold of the narrative and and make it something I I don't know if I can say positive, but

Positive, you know what I mean? Whether it's that you are kinder, wiser, tougher, whatever it's done for you, right? Like for me, it's like if I can write a joke about it, I've I'm I'm at least halfway there, you know?

Kira Sabin (31:07)
Yeah.

And I just and I'm so glad that we could have so I don't have kids. I child free by choice. and I love that you were able to take those experiences and then teach your kids the things that we didn't learn, right? Like that is a beautiful gift. I also wish you or so many other people that I know have it didn't have to go through the crap that they went through to get there.

Eileen Kelly (31:32)
Yeah.

Kira Sabin (31:41)
Right. Like that's the that's the tough thing for me. everybody I I I don't know anybody who is Gen X that doesn't have some pretty traumatic stories. Just even this has been a conversation recently, but like, even like when the challenger blew up and then their teachers didn't even talk to us about it or the parents didn't talk to us about it.

Eileen Kelly (31:51)
Intend like trauma with a

When you

When you said they taught us that we can be astronauts, I bit my tongue to not say, but then we watched them go up and blow up and we're like, maybe a different, a different living. Maybe I'll choose a different course. Yeah. Cause then no one even talked to us about it. Yeah. They were like, all right, let's have a spelling test.

Kira Sabin (32:07)
Ha ha ha.

Exactly. Maybe different than that. Maybe. Yeah. And then they didn't. Right. Our parents didn't say anything. Yes, exactly. Okay. And spelling B for

today is S and I think that the gift that we have is Gen X is we can really talk to our kids in a way that our parents didn't. We were still kind of part of the kids should.

Eileen Kelly (32:28)
Truly.

Kira Sabin (32:40)
you know, be seen and not heard generation. You remember that, I'm sure, right?

Eileen Kelly (32:41)
Be seen and not heard. Yeah. Yes. And it's

absolutely. And everyone I talk to, every gen expert that I talk to, even when they were, as you were saying before, have this badge of honor and they're like, Well, we were kids, we got heard and we just got up and shook it off and da-da-da. But when I say

But do you want that for your children? They're like, absolutely not. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (33:09)
Right. And I think we have

to keep remembering that. That just because it happened to us doesn't mean it's a badge of honor. We can actually look back at that little version of us and be like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you had to go through that. And I'm sorry you had to go through that alone. Because I didn't feel comfortable cherrying my parents.

Eileen Kelly (33:20)
Yes.

Yeah. And also like

right ⁓ or I absolutely wasn't able to and that people normalized it, you know.

Kira Sabin (33:33)
Right. Yeah, absolutely.

Eileen Kelly (33:37)
I remember when my I have two twenty-two year olds and a fifteen year old and I remember when my twenty-two-year-olds were young, pre-K age, you know how there are certain words, certain phrasings just kind of make their way into the zeitgeist and everybody's saying welcome in or whatever it you know what I mean? Like suddenly it's like this is the thing.

Kira Sabin (33:52)
Right, right, right.

Eileen Kelly (33:55)
Kids would get hurt and people would go, You're okay, you're okay, you're okay. And it drove me crazy. a kid would skin their knee and they'd be bleeding and their parent would be like, You're okay, you're okay. And I said before I have a big mouth, I do, but like, I would s like if I witnessed it, I'd be like, he's not okay. He skinned his knee. It hurts. He's allowed to cry. You know, like like

Kira Sabin (34:21)
Right. And then he'll get over it.

Eileen Kelly (34:24)
Trust his body when you tell it's basically like saying nothing happened to you. It's like no, I fucking skimmed my knee, it hurts. If you fell and skimmed your knee, you would be upset, you know? And for some reason, that fear of like, gosh, if we coddle them, it's like you don't have to coddle them, but you could be like, That's that sucked. I'm sorry that happened to you. Let's go get you cleaned up. You know what I mean? Like, that sucks to get hurt.

Kira Sabin (34:47)
I mean, they're also

children, so we can cuddle them a little. You know what I mean? They're children. I mean

Eileen Kelly (34:52)
Right, exactly. God forbid. But yeah, it's

like to tell them they're fine when it's like, no, I'm actually bleeding and it hurts, you know?

Kira Sabin (35:02)
I mean early gaslighting right there, right? You're you're fine. Just brush it off. You're fine.

Eileen Kelly (35:05)
Totally! Like it's like all the triggers for

me. I I ha have had a lot of gaslighting in my life, including a trip to Boston, where we didn't make it to Boston because my dad didn't know how to get there.

Kira Sabin (35:16)
Mm.

Eileen Kelly (35:24)
But then the pictures of us from the random suburban town that we ended up in, say Boston, 1976, that's how much they dug into the gaslighting. Like, I've never actually been to Boston, but okay.

Kira Sabin (35:44)
That's hilarious. That's hilarious. ⁓ my god. And this isn't Boston! It's not. ⁓ my god. That is ⁓ the road trips, right? the road trips and the maps and the motels that we would pull over into at like eight o'clock at night. That you're like, my god, what terrible thing has happened here? So

Eileen Kelly (35:46)
So when people are like, you're okay, I'm like, he's not fucking okay, and this isn't Boston. It's a real trigger. I know what's up.

my god, the maps.

Are you home?

And this is all for fun.

Kira Sabin (36:15)
This is for fun. No, I yeah,

Eileen Kelly (36:15)
Yeah.

Kira Sabin (36:17)
we were, I don't know, I I you had six kids. It was just my sister and I. And we were always ⁓ we didn't fly. We were we we would drive and there would put a ⁓ right, exact yeah, exactly. And then so there would be a cooler between us with sandwiches so that we couldn't touch each other, right? And we would be under this like small I I know, right?

Eileen Kelly (36:22)
Yeah.

I didn't fly until I bought my own ticket in my twenties. Yeah.

Genius.

Kira Sabin (36:41)
So that we couldn't like poke each other and things like that. And then we could reach in and get like a Capri Sun or Tang or something that didn't really look like water ever. ⁓ and you know, for a snack, and that's how the road trip was. then we would drive for days and then hopefully get not get lost seventeen times.

Eileen Kelly (36:44)
Ha ha.

Nice.

Yeah, that that actually sounds like flying first class compared to mine. I'm like a cooler full of drinks and nobody could touch you. What? That's deluxe.

Kira Sabin (37:05)
⁓ my god, that's that's I mean that's I know. I'm

so sorry. I'm so sorry to to flaunt to flaunt my lower middle class childhood to you. I'm so sorry. L in Wisconsin, eating eating our cheese, drinking our drinking our milk. So

Eileen Kelly (37:15)
You guys were living a good life.

Ha ha ha.

You guys got strong bones out there.

Kira Sabin (37:31)
We we well,

questionably, I don't know if my doctor agrees with that, but that's a hormonal thing, so just kidding. I do love cheese though. I do love cheese.

Eileen Kelly (37:36)
So

do I. And Wisconsin cheese is pretty darn good.

Kira Sabin (37:46)
⁓ I will say I am biased, but it is the best and like it wins a lot of ki like depending, but we have a lot of I mean, I have the kind of state pride that like I personally know some of the cheesemakers have won awards because like I go to cheese, like we have something here in the past called Cheese Camp where all the small cheesemakers come and you just try cheese for two hours. And it's like 200 cheeses.

Eileen Kelly (37:51)
Yeah.

Nice.

Are there

like cardiologists on site or

Kira Sabin (38:19)
No, they keep them in the sides

so that nobody sees them, right? I'm just kidding. But No, but I mean like that's a thing, right? That's like a real thing here. Cause like I know. Listen.

Eileen Kelly (38:22)
With chisels, getting ready to chisel it out of your arteries? That's hilarious. I did not know that was a thing. I wonder if it's

only Wisconsin or is it New York and Vermont too? Because I feel like those are the other contenders, right?

Kira Sabin (38:37)
You guys have other stuff. This is what we got. We've got this and beer. Right? Like with Californians, like we got happy cows. I'm like, you guys have all your other shit. Like, give us our happy cows. You got Hollywood. You got San Francisco. You got, you know, like all of the things. Yeah, we got beer. We got beer and we got cheese. Yep. And they're right.

Eileen Kelly (38:40)
You're like, don't be greedy.

You got Patch Blue Ribbon, don't you? You got beer and cheese and beer cheese. Beer and cheese and beer cheese.

Kira Sabin (39:06)
It's

it's a thing. It's a definite, definite thing. But

Eileen Kelly (39:09)
It's a culture

that I could definitely snuggle up to.

Kira Sabin (39:13)
It's not the worst. I'm not gonna lie. You know, there is a gift.

Eileen Kelly (39:15)
not the worst. Well w especially

in cold places, cheese is cheese is pretty delightful.

Kira Sabin (39:22)
For sure. For sure.

Eileen Kelly (39:24)
I get more New York and Vermont cheese 'cause I'm in New Jersey, so Wisconsin cheese is harder to come by.

Kira Sabin (39:32)
Sorry to hear that. But if we ever get to meet in real life, Eileen, I will bring you all my favorite cheeses. I travel with cheese. I do. Like wherever I go, I bring cheese. Yeah. Yeah. Like cheeses that are like. Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Every

Eileen Kelly (39:33)
Ha

my god.

So you are welcomed with open arms. ⁓ Well, I feel like everywhere

you go, you must be by everyone if you're like have cheese will travel.

Kira Sabin (39:56)
And good cheese too, right? do you not have a cheese drawer? Do you have a cheese drawer in your fridge? Okay, good. Cause that, you know, the little like kind of upper crisper is a cheese drawer in Wisconsin, right? Like everybody I know puts their cheese, maybe they're like summer sausage, that kind of shit. Right, exactly. So

Eileen Kelly (40:01)
I have a cheese drawer, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. Sometimes there's overflow to the second drawer. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (40:18)
but I've heard other places don't have cheese stores. They use it for things like I I don't know what they use it for. But like I I think I have like six to eight types of cheese on hand at all times that I'm not even joking.

Eileen Kelly (40:24)
Celery?

the old house. And then you need crackers. And then you need wine and maybe ⁓ some grapes and then you're set. Or bread.

Kira Sabin (40:33)
I know. It's a it's a good there's a pic there's a picnic whenever you want. Well I've always got crackers. Who doesn't have crackers?

My hangovers

don't allow me to have the wine right now. We're hoping someday to bring it back into my life, but

Eileen Kelly (40:51)
I'll tell you what, at fifty-three I couldn't have wine. At fifty-seven I'm back. I'm back in. I'm back with the wine, baby. Yeah, it's pretty great. Got in moderation. Yeah, yeah. Fifty-three it was like, who turned up the thermostat? Yeah, when I'd have even a couple sips. Mm.

Kira Sabin (40:56)
You're back in. That's what th I'm I'm hoping.

I I can't sleep Yeah, I s

I can't sleep the next day to two days. I feel like I lose days and I'm like, yeah, I'm like I can't run a my own business and do that, so not worth it. I do enjoy the gummy though. I do enjoy the gummy Eileen. The special gummy. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (41:13)
gosh. Not worth it. No. No, absolutely not.

Really? See

I don't. I feel like all right, you wanna hear wanna hear a funny terrible story? Okay, so it was COVID. Believe it or not

Kira Sabin (41:29)
I do.

Eileen Kelly (41:35)
People are like, that that that can't be true. But I get have some social anxiety. I'm an outgoing person. I can speak in front of hundreds of people and I'm fine. But when I don't know what my role is, like if I'm performing, I know what my role is, right? I know I know what's gonna happen next.

If I don't know what my role is and I'm just going into a bar or going into a big space with a bunch of people, I can get really anxious. So after COVID, when none of us had seen people for the longest time, then suddenly my twins talked me into ha hosting the pre-prom party that just keeps growing and growing and growing. And the parents, the kids, the couples, and their parents are gonna come, and it ends up being like, I don't know, 85 people or something. And I was suddenly

Suddenly I'm like putting makeup on in the bathroom. I mean, I've been in sweatpants for like, you know, a two years or something. And I'm like, my God, I don't we had only like we moved to town, my youngest is special needs, and like I

Kira Sabin (42:35)
Yeah, fair.

Eileen Kelly (42:49)
was busy with him all the time and my older ones were too old to like go to a play date with them. You know what I mean? So like I didn't really know the other families or parents. And that makes me really uncomfortable. Like not knowing people or feeling like I should know people and I don't, it makes me really anxious. So I'm getting ready and I'm like, my God, I

Kira Sabin (42:56)
Right, right.

Eileen Kelly (43:09)
had a conversation with someone I don't that isn't in my immediate family for like two years. I don't know people, I'm not gonna be able to tell whose parents go with who what kid. And so my husband was like, You should try a gummy. I can't remember if I took a half or a whole, but it was the worst idea anyone ever had. I was so paranoid and

Kira Sabin (43:33)
Why was that? Because I feel like there's more

⁓ no

Eileen Kelly (43:39)
Get stout.

I was like, I was out of my I'm sure people were like, what is her problem? I was so anxious. It just took everything I was feeling and dialed it up to like a hundred.

I was just like, it's so nice to meet you. Hey. And then I'm in the kitchen and like not going in the backyard where everyone is. And my kids are like, can you come outside? people want to meet you. And I just, I had this plate of lemons that I was I'm just gonna focus on cutting these lemons for the entirety of the party. And I was like, I have lemons to cut. These are not gonna cut themselves. I cannot go outside. I was a freak show.

Kira Sabin (44:17)
So it went

really well, is what you're saying. Okay.

Eileen Kelly (44:19)
So that was my last gummy experience. I

was like, I those don't go well for me.

Kira Sabin (44:27)
I I understand. I'm lucky that I I've I've lived lots of places. So I lived in Denver. That's kind of opened up my experience there. But when COVID hit, ⁓ we were living in Denver and I said to my husband, ⁓ I'm not we're not gonna be able to afford to live in Denver if I don't have a business to run and you're not working because he had been working for me. And so we moved to Mexico actually, and we were living in this

Eileen Kelly (44:50)
wow.

Kira Sabin (44:51)
laid

back mostly Canadian, I mean literally birds and monkeys in our yard kind of shit. Yeah. And I I remember after a year we I was gonna run an event and I went we went into Playa del Carmen to I was gonna go stay at the hotel to get good Wi-Fi, that kind of thing. And the noises, I literally jumped a like my cats. Like, you know, I was

Eileen Kelly (44:58)
my gosh, that sounds like heaven.

you so

like hyper sensitive.

Kira Sabin (45:18)
I just had been so long from interacting and from all of that stimulation. And I feel there's a lot of people I know. And I don't think I've ever completely come out of that sense. there's a part of me I there's a part of me that I kind of going out or doing all of these things for me? Because I didn't miss them.

Eileen Kelly (45:20)
Yeah.

I haven't I have not.

Kira Sabin (45:41)
When they were gone. And it sounds you know, so now I'm just really, really thoughtful with my time and who I spend time with and stuff because it's it feels harder than it used to.

Eileen Kelly (45:43)
Yeah.

It feels harder for sure. And going back to what you said about numbing out with TV and things like that, what what is your take on Gen X in terms of that? Because I also feel like like you know how all those memes and I I I really related to them about how like they show like four generations during COVID and it was like

Kira Sabin (45:55)
And I

Eileen Kelly (46:17)
Boomers and millennials and Gen Z and then it was like Gen X and we were like fine you know like during lockdown because it's like we're all latchkey kids we've all been neglected like this is fine So part of me is like is that unhealthy? I don't know

Kira Sabin (46:32)
I mean yes.

I mean y maybe you know, and that's and that's like such a it's a hard thing to to weigh on, but to me, we're really, really used to being alone. And first of all, that can be a really beautiful thing, right? To be able to sit with yourself and your feelings, right? But most of the time when we're alone, we're numbing.

Eileen Kelly (46:54)
We're really self-reliant. Yes.

Kira Sabin (47:01)
Right? We're either doom scrolling, we're watching TV. I am a pop culture junkie. Like that is, I I, you know, maybe the maybe millennials were raised on video games and I loved my Atari, but like I was watching I Love Lucy every morning, set like 6:30, woke up with my cocoa weeds, you know, watching that and my three sons, and and you know, so watching all of those old

Eileen Kelly (47:17)
Totally. Yep.

Yo.

Kira Sabin (47:27)
⁓ and then in the afternoon I'd watch the Brady Bunch, we'd watch Parcher Tramley, we watch, you know, and so like T V was my babysitter in so many ways. And it still kind of is. That's my go to when I wanna numb out. Like I turn on a show.

Eileen Kelly (47:35)
Totally, mine too. Totally. Yeah. My go to as well. Yep.

Yep. Yeah, that is the like comfort place. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (47:49)
Right. And I think that that's

really true of our generation because I think it babysat a lot of us. Right.

Eileen Kelly (47:54)
It

of us. And by the way, wait, remember when you were being babysat and then all of a sudden in the middle of your comfortable alone babysitting, there would be a terrible commercial for a scary movie like magic, hocus pocus, you're dead. Or like Jack Nicholson and the shining, and you were like, my god.

Kira Sabin (48:09)
I know, right?

Eileen Kelly (48:18)
and you had no remote, you know, all you could do is like hum and shut your eyes and shut your ears and it was like, my God It's like you're sitting there enjoying my three sons and all of a sudden ⁓

Kira Sabin (48:30)
Or, you know, lifetime collections. You know, I can still say half of the like songs in my head if I get going, I can do them in order. Do you remember of like those what do you remember those time life collections for, you know, and then my god, those were my favorite, those in the c Yeah

Eileen Kelly (48:38)
But Dad, it's Smokey. Yeah, Smokey Robinson.

Time Life Collections. Engelbert Humpert Inc. I'm like, what kind of name is that? Who

is that guy? Yeah. And Bobby Vinton. blue velvet. I don't know, weird liberace. Like weird. Like it was like music you didn't know, but you're like, what is this? It's crazy.

Kira Sabin (49:05)
Yes, yes.

I find it so interesting. And I know you have kids, so I'd be interested in what you have to say, but like I felt so part of my parents' culture, like the 40s, the 50s, the 60s, right? Because I was constantly watching reruns, movies, American movie classics. You know, I was a huge old movie fan. I nerdily had Cary Grant on my wall in college. That was who I put up. wow.

Eileen Kelly (49:24)
totally. Totally.

Yes.

I had James Dean, so I'm right there with you, sister.

Kira Sabin (49:41)
My God, Eileen, we

might be sisters. Wow. ⁓ right, but you know what I mean? it just feels like in a way that like kids

Eileen Kelly (49:47)
Yeah. There was something cool and alternative

about that.

Kira Sabin (49:51)
Right. And just like now I wonder if kids do that because there's so much entertainment. Like there just wasn't that many shows, so they showed reruns. Right. But now do they do they in and mesh in the like eighties and nineties like you know, like we did back then. 'Cause

Eileen Kelly (49:59)
Right, yeah.

Well they do, kind

of. Yeah, no, they're totally enamored with Gen X.

my daughter will say, I w I kinda wish I grew up in your generation. You know?

Kira Sabin (50:15)
What do you think when she says that?

Eileen Kelly (50:18)
I tell her, I'm like, there were really good things that you can adopt, you know, like she she would get rid of her, and she she has for a number of years now not had an Instagram account, not been on social media and

Kira Sabin (50:30)
Good for her.

Eileen Kelly (50:31)
⁓ I've said there are things that you can adopt that were good about that time, but there's a lot about that time that you don't really learn from stranger things, you know? And I'm glad you're growing up when you're growing up, even though it's got its challenges. But you know, you can

Kira Sabin (50:35)
Right.

But how good was

Stranger Things? Because I fucking loved Stranger Things so much. It scratched every Gen X ish itch that I had.

Eileen Kelly (50:53)
⁓ my god, the the

attention to detail with the sets and the wardrobe and just the little things that are aro seriously, chef's kiss, yeah?

Kira Sabin (51:00)
Yeah.

I know, I agree. My husband and I have just started a rewatch of the Goldbergs. And I don't know who did the clothing, but they did a such a great job because regularly I'm like, I know a guy in my class and I had that shirt that Barry's wearing, or I know right, exactly like they did such a great job of like getting from thrift shops because I'll recognize clothes because in a small town like we had a we had a JCPenney's, we had a Sears catalog.

Eileen Kelly (51:09)
⁓

Such a great job. Yeah, I had that sweater. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (51:30)
Right. So you could go look to the Sears, look at the catalog, put in your order that then would come in in the next week or two weeks that you would go pick it up. So we didn't have an ex Sears store, it's just a catalog store. And then everybody wore the same clothes because you know we were all shopping in the same stores. So yeah. So I love

Eileen Kelly (51:42)
Yeah.

Totally. Yep. Yeah, we had like

more. We had malls. Like New Jersey is known for its malls and we had like several malls. Yeah. But it was still forenza, you know, the limited, like and it was like Lacaste, you know. I mean I didn't have that.

Kira Sabin (51:54)
It is. It is.

Uh-huh.

Eileen Kelly (52:06)
stuff but like it was like this iconic stuff. It was like the the moccasins and the baggy jeans or the guest jeans or the you know it was just like that was it. You know now there's just so many choices. But back then it was like either you had it or you didn't.

Kira Sabin (52:24)
And that's so true. Okay, so you probably don't know these things about me, but one of the things I've done in the past is I had a podcast called Romcom Rescue. And we watch rom coms and I

Eileen Kelly (52:35)
I wanna check

that one out. I've been listening to your other podcast, but I wanna I wanna take a dive into all these l other little offshoots that you've got going on.

Kira Sabin (52:45)
And yeah, and what so myself and then a ⁓ couple therapist like look at rom coms and then break down like the healthy and the unhealthy lessons. And we did an 80s series. And Eileen, it was fucking rough going back and watching these movies. Like through through the lens, not a lot. I mean, it's like, I mean, it was really because she's the woman who I was doing it with is millennial. So she's like,

Eileen Kelly (53:00)
I was just gonna say, what were the positives?

Kira Sabin (53:13)
What am I even watching? Like she's like, you know what I mean? Right? So like she watched like can't buy me love and she's like, what is this? You know, like you're you I know, but like, isn't it hilarious that there's a whole movie and all of these things happen because she just couldn't tell her mom that she ruined that white suede suit? Like that's the reason for the whole movie.

Eileen Kelly (53:15)
I know, and you're like, what? It's so great. She's like, You're damaged.

You're like we were charmed by

It's like we

get it. Yeah, it's like you don't know the terror of the parent.

Kira Sabin (53:40)
Right? Like she just couldn't Right like she would

go through like some kind of like six month thing at school just to not have to tell her mom that she ruined her outfit. I mean hilarious. But I couldn't even do a few of the movies that I I mean, as much as we all love John Hughes, that shit is that shit's bad. It's bad, bad.

Eileen Kelly (53:54)
Yeah. It's like I fully understand.

it's bad. Molly Ringwell just talked

about it. Have you ever seen some of the stuff that she's like she's gone back w watching it like with her kit Yeah. It's worth it's worth looking up. and she said she credited her mom because in I can't remember it was Sixteen Candles or Breakfast Club. or no, I think it might have been pretty in pink.

Kira Sabin (54:10)
I haven't, actually. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (54:32)
There's ⁓ I'm gonna get this wrong, but there was something about her father and her underwear. Something about that that her mother was like, what? No. And John Hughes kind of tried to sell it to her, and she's like, in no ⁓ world does this make sense or i is normal.

Kira Sabin (54:56)
Interesting.

Eileen Kelly (54:59)
And he ended up cutting it. But she did say for all that's in there that's kind of that that is messed up, her mother pushed back on things that were more messed up.

Kira Sabin (55:05)
Right.

And not surprising. but you said something so important, which is back then you either had it or you didn't. So whether it was clothes, whether it was h you know, whatever and and what I watched

Eileen Kelly (55:21)
Yeah, like a car or a like

Kira Sabin (55:25)
Right. And what I watched re-watching those movies is there's always somebody that is a better than, and then there's one that's a less than, and then it's the lessons job to impress or fake or whatever. And we have been taught power struggles since the day we were born for relationships. We were taught, I mean, rewatching and just like, my God.

Eileen Kelly (55:44)
Totally. We were taught women against women, like we're competing instead

of and it goes against everything in us. We are wired to cooperate. That's how we're wired. We work together. Yep. We're wired for community. We're wired to help each other. And it was this pitting women against each other that we grew up with.

Kira Sabin (55:53)
Ooh.

We're wired for community.

Well,

I have some history on that. Ding ding ding. Witches. After the after World War Two, when we lost so many men, right? In the war, there was a huge campaign when the men were coming back for women that now that there's so few of men, you better lock that shit down, or you will be an old maid, right? And an old maid back then meant

Eileen Kelly (56:12)
Do tell.

Kira Sabin (56:36)
You probably were not going to have that good of a life because you were not going to make enough money to be able to afford to live yourself. Right. So that's when we start seeing 13-year-olds getting pinned, getting letter jackets, start getting the class ring, start getting owned by the time they're like in high school. Sometimes even younger than that. Kids were encouraged. Like before that, the marrying age was like in the 20s. And then all of a sudden it was 17, 18. So

Eileen Kelly (56:43)
Right. Right.

Kira Sabin (57:04)
Girls were being told in all of the media, like there is a male shortage. And if you, these women are your competition, and you have to do what you have to do to make sure you're taken care of. And I feel like even though that wasn't true when we were growing up, we were still letting go of those ideas. Right. And and I mean, but that was that was for us.

Eileen Kelly (57:28)
⁓ for sure. And our mothers were holding on to it and passing it on.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (57:33)
Right? MRS degree.

That's why my mom went to college. You know, for her R MRS degree to find a husband.

Eileen Kelly (57:37)
Yeah. Yeah. My mom didn't go

to college, but she very much had that attitude of ⁓ if somebody likes you, you're really lucky. Like and you should just be grateful. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (57:49)
Yep, and you hold on to it.

Yep. And put a little lipstick on. But

Eileen Kelly (57:55)
Ha ha ha.

Kira Sabin (57:58)
That's a jant. That's that's my mom. But absolutely. And I was I and then somewhere for me, I was like a a really like young, energetic, skinny child, had ADHD, undiagnosed because nobody knew what it was back then. ⁓ I was just talk too much, right?

Eileen Kelly (57:58)
Hm I I I gotta say, I don't mind a little lipstick.

Kira Sabin (58:17)
and so somewhere around middle school, my what I know now is kind of like PCOS kicked in and I started gaining weight in a family where we didn't gain weight. And you know, and that brings up a whole nother set of bullshit.

Eileen Kelly (58:30)
Right.

Kira Sabin (58:36)
that that young girls like you better look a certain way or no boy's ever gonna choose you. Nobody's ever gonna want, you know, nobody wants to make the fat girl their girlfriend. You know, that kind of shit. That haunted me for years until I went through a a bunch of therapy and and everything else. But man, I mean, it's so interesting to look back at Gen X because there's so much that I'm like we had so much fun and so proud of and there's so much just

Eileen Kelly (58:36)
Right.

Right.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Kira Sabin (59:02)
unhealthy shit that I feel like we're still letting go of that I still see women absolutely with those beliefs, not you know, and not even seeing that they're still kind of applying them to their lives, even when it doesn't make sense anymore.

Eileen Kelly (59:06)
Yeah, absolutely.

I am guilty of it. I have things come up with my kids that I have to say to myself, hold on, is this valid or is this some toxic JetX bullshit?

Kira Sabin (59:34)
And the fact that you're even asking yourself is like huge. Right? Like that to me, like that's huge because you're at least having the awareness to go, wait, does this actually make sense to teach? Right? Is this what my kids should learn? You know, was that the, you know, because I feel like we were of the generation of, well, the way we did it was the right way. That's what my parents, right? Like way we did it in the 50s and the whole like.

Eileen Kelly (59:57)
Right. And there's no

questioning ever. Like I feel like they never questioned themselves because it almost would have been like a sign of weakness or that they didn't have authority or whatever. But it was everything was so final and like absolute.

Kira Sabin (1:00:02)
Right.

Yes.

Yep. Yep. And so all that made us do was have zero self-trust. Right? So what what I see is a major thing among women our age is they don't trust their guts. They don't trust that they can make the right decisions. They don't trust ⁓ if something feels off that it is off. And it's because the very thing you said like 20 minutes ago, which is we were told to ignore our alarm bells.

Eileen Kelly (1:00:22)
Yes Yes.

Yes.

Kira Sabin (1:00:44)
We were told like, that's just what men do. You know, that's what like older men commenting on your body. I'm I'm I'm sorry. One more time. I'm sorry.

Eileen Kelly (1:00:44)
Yeah.

Right. Everything was explained away. Yep. You smile

and you be charming and you don't cause problems.

Kira Sabin (1:01:00)
You don't inconvenience people. You make sure you're needed. Cause if you're not needed, like, my God, right? Like, and right. And then what do we have? Maybe happiness. I don't know. But right. Right. Right. But I mean, it is really like crazy when you start peeling away those layers. Like just how much bullshit.

Eileen Kelly (1:01:07)
Then what do you have? Yeah.

contentment? How about that?

Kira Sabin (1:01:26)
that we learned, that we accepted, because we knew we didn't know the difference, and that we're still living in unless we like actively like unlearn it.

Eileen Kelly (1:01:38)
And it is I get why what you were saying about I'm kind of worried about our generation because we are falling into the grumpy old whatever. Like I do there are some days where I'm just like, I'm too tired. Like you know, I don't wanna parse through this. I know that it's messed up. It's also comfortable.

Kira Sabin (1:01:52)
I

And

I also would love us to just like heal ourselves enough that like we can be tired and not take everybody around us down. You know what I mean? Like, like I say to my like I say to my husband, I met my husband later in life. I met him in when I was 41. ⁓ and like, you know, I I say like in our house, everybody gets to have emotions, but we don't we get don't have emotions to each other, right? So you get to feel your feelings from the day, but you don't get to aim it to me and I don't get to aim it at you.

Eileen Kelly (1:02:10)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Kira Sabin (1:02:30)
Right. And like that's not the way we had emotions growing up in my house. Whatever you were feeling, everybody felt it with you. You know, like for like if my debt we're responsible for.

Eileen Kelly (1:02:30)
Absolutely. Yep.

And also were responsible for it and made to feel

bad and guilty when they didn't even know what was going on. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (1:02:49)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. after my time of just I spend a lot of time and reflection, right? Like I run my own business. I have now for 18 years. I spend my days coaching mostly women around you know self-worth and boundaries and passive psychology and and all of this stuff. And I will tell you,

It's the biggest gift, and there's just so much work to do because we are struggling as a generation. I'm so proud of us in some ways, but we are struggling. We are lonely. You know, the Gen X men right now are are, I hate to say it, like a lot of them are are very right-leaning and not looking out for their wives, their daughters, their, you know. And so

Eileen Kelly (1:03:18)
We are shoreline.

Me too.

I know.

Yep, yep, yeah. And

on the one hand, I want to throw my arms around our whole generation and just give them a hug and be like, I know how hard it was, I'm sorry. Yeah. But at the same time, then you you know, encounter some that you're like, you're not invited to the party.

Kira Sabin (1:03:46)
Guys, it's free to be you and me. Yeah.

I feel like that's okay because like when we don't invite them party, it makes people look at like, why am I not getting invited? What do I need to work on? Because maybe I'm not a very nice person. Maybe I'm an asshole. I mean, that's I'm I'm really into, you know, like living as true as we can to ourselves. And, you know, and if somebody is not kind, like they don't get to play a role in my life.

Eileen Kelly (1:04:07)
I mean y one would hope one would hope.

Kira Sabin (1:04:26)
So that's that's where it comes down to. And I and you know, and some people are like, why would you know that sounds so bad or scary or what you know, and I'm like, no, because how do people change and learn if people don't say that's not acceptable or that doesn't feel good and you can't treat people like that?

Eileen Kelly (1:04:27)
Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly. And the thing is, maybe they will change and learn and maybe they won't. But either way, it's not in your orbit. You know?

Kira Sabin (1:04:50)
And I don't

have to take the brunt of virtually anything. I'm a 53-year-old woman. And ⁓ yeah, I'll do what I want.

Eileen Kelly (1:04:57)
That's the thing too that's different about

Gen X is that we are I'll do what I want, god damn it. I the different I think that our generation is the first generation to be like, I'm not going to invite Aunt So and so and Uncle So-and-so because they're mean and racist and

Say hurtful things and I don't want them in my house. And I feel like the generation before us couldn't imagine that. It was like, well, you just do because it's family. You just ignore it because it's family. Yep. And it's like, no, no.

Kira Sabin (1:05:30)
Three.

You do for family.

It it's you know

Eileen Kelly (1:05:40)
Our generation

was the first that was like, I'll choose my family, my friends, right? I'll choose my friends and the family that treats me with respect.

Kira Sabin (1:05:44)
Right.

And and I'll tell you this, I know so many people that I'm still saying, women, if your mom's a sh shitty to you, don't spend time with her. They're like, do I have that option? I'm like, yes, yes, yes, you do. That we don't. And I had a I had a good coach friend quite a few years ago, when I was in my 30s and and trying to decide if I wanted kids or whatever, and and she she had chosen not to.

Eileen Kelly (1:06:06)
I know, but we were raised to think that we don't.

Kira Sabin (1:06:21)
And at that point I was still in the, but like, what do I do when I get older? And she's like, why is it your child's job to take care of you? why are we putting that on a generation and you can do everything seemingly correct? Or you know what I mean? But we we hand off a lot of bullshit to kids and you know, expectations that are just not, just not helpful. And I was like, you're right. that should not be unless that my kid chooses it.

Eileen Kelly (1:06:28)
Yeah. Right.

Kira Sabin (1:06:50)
And they only will choose would choose it, hopefully, if that meant we had a good relationship, you know, like right.

Eileen Kelly (1:06:55)
Exactly. Exactly. The

way you choose to care for a friend because they were your friend. Because they were kind to you and they were there for you. Not just because they abused you their whole lives, but your family.

Kira Sabin (1:07:02)
Yes.

Yep,

Up. I mean, and I do find I lost my dad a couple of years ago. and I still have a mom, but I do find just Mother's Day and Father's Day so hard knowing what I do because so many people had shitty parents and we're on there celebrating.

Eileen Kelly (1:07:24)
my god, when through the card section,

when you look through the card section, I was like, I wanna I I used to have a sketch group years ago and I had a sketch that I wrote because there was this commercial on TV at the time for Hallmark and it was like there's a card for that and it was all very sentimental and whatever. And so I in the sketch it was called Dysfunctional Family Greetings and it was just different scenarios and cards that I had written to relevant.

relatives that were truthful. You know, it's like, could we be honest here? Cause this makes me super uncomfortable, like what's in this card.

Kira Sabin (1:07:57)
Yes.

Absolutely.

my I mean my uncle used to comment on my body. Like my you know what I mean? Like just weird family shit that like nobody stopped and you're like, why? Why is this okay? Why?

Eileen Kelly (1:08:11)
Yeah.

Yeah. Don't you wish there was a card that was

like, hey uncle cheap, you're a fucking creep. Stop checking out my body. You're fifty eight years old. Whatever. Like I and we all have Yeah, we all have

Kira Sabin (1:08:21)
Well, he's been dead for it since the nineties, so we're good. So

I mean he was like 70 something. We all have him.

But I just think it's such a it's such like a hard day because like for as many people who can be like, I celebrate my mom or my dad. There's so many of our generation who are like, My mom was my biggest problem, or my dad was my biggest problem. Like they were the abusers. They were the they were the bullies. You know, that turned us into our own bullies. That's the that's the thing.

Eileen Kelly (1:08:48)
Right. Exactly.

Right.

Right. Or

⁓ you know, I I did an episode a while back about siblings day, and I said, you know, for Gen X it's complicated because a lot of us people were still having pretty big families back then, and even in a small family it can happen. But when both parents worked and there was no before care, after care clubs, whatever, nobody thought about what do kids do on their off time.

Kira Sabin (1:09:10)
Yep.

Yes.

Eileen Kelly (1:09:23)
A lot of siblings were abused by their siblings and i No. And it's like yeah, there's another there's another thing where it's like, and you all get together for holidays and you're just supposed to forget about how horrendous this person was to you for years.

Kira Sabin (1:09:27)
It's a conversation we do not have, and we should, because I have heard horrible stories.

Right.

Yeah. And I mean, yeah, I've just I've heard horror stories through the years of just like people's like older brothers, like literally just beating them, like beating them when they're parents. And and the problem is is with our parents both working, right? And then the feels like there's not enough attention to go around. So then siblings are competing, right?

Eileen Kelly (1:10:02)
No and if you were like,

Hey beat me up, they're just like, my god, I just got home, I'm so stressed out, leave me alone. You know, they're they're depleted and you're injured and nobody is getting any justice.

Kira Sabin (1:10:10)
Right, right, absolutely.

At all. And like my parents were teachers. So that was also complicated because it felt like the kids during the day were getting their time, energy, and attention that they were not, yeah. By the time they came home, they're like, We don't, right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna put some not good casserole on the table that we're all gonna eat and then watch, you know, Simon and Simon. I don't know, right? Like

Eileen Kelly (1:10:29)
Yeah, they were kitted out by the time they're with you.

They're like, I don't wanna see another kid.

Ha ha ha

Kira Sabin (1:10:49)
McGyver, you know, all of the Hunter, like all of those like male led

T V shows of the eighties that were everywhere.

Eileen Kelly (1:10:55)
Totally.

And you get it, like you get both sides. Like you get that they probably didn't want to see another kid. They just wanted to zone out. But it's like, but you have to. So

Kira Sabin (1:10:58)
I don't know how f

Right.

Right.

And I'll tell you, like, so my grandmother promised my dad when he was very young that if she ever got sick, he would never put in her nursing home. So then he was also for five years taking care of my grandmother almost full time. Like none of this was set up for for good, right? None of this was set up for success. it's it's so interesting when we look.

Just not even that far back at like the depression. And, you know, our parents and our grandparents came from such weird shit, man.

Eileen Kelly (1:11:41)
Behind him.

I know, and I always think of that, right? Like it's okay to say like I this is a conversation I have a lot with Gen Xers. It's okay to say my parents weren't able to meet my needs. They were neglectful, sometimes abusive, but I understand that they did the best they could with what they had.

Kira Sabin (1:12:03)
Yep. Yep.

Eileen Kelly (1:12:10)
Right? Like those two things can be true. They could have been shitty parents in a lot of ways, but you understand that they weren't working with a lot. You know, like our parents didn't get to choose how many kids they had. I mean, my I grew up Catholic, so like you didn't get to choose how many kids you had. I'm sure like I used to say to my older siblings, like they were so done by the time they had me, like it was just like

Kira Sabin (1:12:25)
Right.

Eileen Kelly (1:12:34)
Whatever, just raise yourself. But they were like, No, they were done before they started my oldest sister was eighteen years older than me and I was having this conversation with her years ago. She's she's since passed, but ⁓ and I was like, they were done, you know, like by the time I came along, they were done. And she was like, I was put on a bus

Kira Sabin (1:12:39)
Like before you.

Eileen Kelly (1:12:59)
to Newark by myself at the age of nine to pay the electric bill. She's like, it was always, I'm like, ⁓ okay. Like it wasn't, you know, it wasn't just me. But like what were their lives like? You know? I don't know. it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't great, but maybe their lives were even harder. I don't know. You know? So those two things can be true.

Kira Sabin (1:13:15)
Yeah.

I mean

And and I think that they are. I don't think there's any way that we can look at somebody who maybe wasn't kind to us and also know that there were people in their lives that weren't kind to them to let them think that that was okay, right? Like none of this all of a sudden just sprung up, right? This is generational trauma. This is just, you know.

whether it's beliefs of women, beliefs of men and gender roles and capitalism or whatever. But the biggest thing is that we were set up to work. You know, we were set up so were our parents and, you know, and there was just no way that we were gonna come out of that completely unscathed.

Eileen Kelly (1:13:53)
Right.

Kira Sabin (1:14:05)
But I do love when I see particularly Gen X women heal, like they are badasses. They are the most amazing, incredible, badasses that I've ever seen. Because we have fire in us. We're just tired. So

Eileen Kelly (1:14:24)
Yeah, but we were

fur we were forged in fire. So it is it makes sense, right? The shit that we had to deal with and put up with and keep going. but I find my like you were saying, ⁓ you meet a lot of women who don't trust their own judgment and intuition, right. And I and I often I do that as well. And I have to

Kira Sabin (1:14:27)
We were

Yes.

Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (1:14:49)
Tell myself I have to ask myself, like, is this

Legit? Like like my daughter quit a part-time job. She's going to law school in August. She took a part-time job in town. It's a you know, just like working behind a counter. But she was coming back from a trip to see her friends, got stuck in traffic, was running late, wasn't gonna get to her shift on time, called from the car and quit like that. And I was like

What?

And she was like, you know, it's just a part time dude. And like I was like, what is happening right now? Like, ⁓ and then like there was a part of me that was like, ⁓ and yeah, you can't do that. And another part of me that was like, wait, am I the weird one in this situation? I don't know.

Kira Sabin (1:15:31)
Yeah. You can't do that. You can't do that.

Yes. Yeah.

I'll I'll tell you, yeah.

And it's real obnoxious having a life coach friend like me. Because, you know, occasionally I'll be like, so my high school, so my friends from childhood in high school, I have like a couple of women that we still have a group chat. they are they both work with Gen Z and they're kind of eye-rolly. And you know, and then sometimes I just have to remind them.

Eileen Kelly (1:15:51)
Ha ha ha

Kira Sabin (1:16:09)
That's what we want for them. We want them to actually say, No, I don't want to work after five. No, I don't. I'm like, this is what we want the generation to do. So they're not working 60 hour weeks like we do for fucking what? You know, like like we but it's hard because we didn't have that. So we're like, well, they shouldn't get to have that, right? And it's just

Eileen Kelly (1:16:31)
It wasn't so much from a jealousy standpoint for me. It was from like an integrity standpoint. It wasn't like a well I had to work shit jobs, so you have to work shit jobs. It was just like that is not cool. But I might be brainwashed, I'm not sure.

Kira Sabin (1:16:36)
Right, right, right, right. Right.

And it's like, I've missed friends' weddings to work. I have missed important things to show up to a shift or to whatever so I didn't lose my job or for integrity. And I can't believe the things that were important to me that I have now missed that will I'll never get to experience because I was working, you know.

Twelve dollars an hour for somebody that wasn't even nice to me and it wasn't even a job I liked because of the integrity, right? I think there's also a good balance there of just, you know, we can, show up in integrity for a job and we can also make sure it doesn't take over our lives, which I think we were told to take have it take over our lives.

Eileen Kelly (1:17:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

absolutely. It was like work came before everything no matter what.

Kira Sabin (1:17:34)
Yep.

Mm-hmm. And that's you know, benefits a lot of other people, not us. You know? Not us. Not us at all.

Eileen Kelly (1:17:41)
Not us. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's

that's the kind of stuff that I have to I glitch with my kids because something will come up and I'm like, 'cause there's what I learned and what they're telling me and what my intuition is telling me and does not compute, you know.

Kira Sabin (1:18:02)
Right. Right. It's hard. It's hard after being conditioned to basically never be the problem to do something that feels like this is maybe a problem. Right?

Eileen Kelly (1:18:15)
Right. Yeah. This is maybe a problem. And there's a part of you that when you know that for me anyway, like I freeze. You know what I mean? It's like when I'm like, I do put a boundary and I'm like, what's gonna happen? This might be a problem.

Kira Sabin (1:18:16)
Like when you're conditioned your whole right? Like

Right.

Right? Is there

is the Kool-Aid man gonna come in and attack me through the wall? Or what's gonna I know it's it's amazing and it's also so empowering when you're like, I set a boundary and stuck to it and I feel better. Right. And the world moved on and like, you know, or I said no to something and it kept on going, you know, like it is a it is amazing. I'm now really good at the no.

Eileen Kelly (1:18:40)
Yeah, yeah

And the world didn't end. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (1:19:03)
So I've had years of practice. I'm very good at the no, maybe a little too good at the no, but you know, I'm protecting my time and energy right now. And so I can put it towards things that matter.

Eileen Kelly (1:19:12)
It's really

and it is something to see someone who has good boundaries. Like I will say, younger people. I was just with my friend's daughter who's in her late twenties, and she was making a speech. She was saying something, and we kind of tapped our glasses to have everyone's attention, and she spoke at the level that I'm speaking at, even though we were in.

Restaurant, and there was like a long table, and she said, I'm sorry if you can't hear me. This is as loud as I go. And I was like, Damn, this is as loud as I go. I love that. Like, I just feel like I learned so much from young women. It's like you don't have to accommodate everybody.

Kira Sabin (1:20:04)
I

You don't. Yeah. I mean, you can't like Eileen, you found me on Instagram. So you're on the Instagram world, right? And like I just remember when like that the new Beetlejuice was coming out, and there was Winona Ryder versus, and I'm forgetting her name right now, the younger actress that ⁓ was in that, and how Winona Ryder, like, somebody said, Winona, Winona and the paparazzi, take off your sunglasses, give us a smile. And how the younger actress is like, you don't have to do that.

You don't have to do what they're saying. And she just goes, ⁓ okay. And she put and went on her editor, put her glasses back on and she, yeah. And that's the thing. She's like, you don't have to do what they're saying. But it is in us.

Eileen Kelly (1:20:37)
⁓ wow I didn't see that. Yeah see see

And it's so basic,

but it's like you don't know the decades of this being drilled into us to the point where we don't know better.

Kira Sabin (1:20:59)
Yes.

We don't. And we unknowingly pass that on to younger generations because we're not aware. Right? most of us learn our living be leaps before the age of seven. So, like, think about what you were shown before the age of seven. It was wacky. I mean, you know, I was raised in the seventies. You were, you know, about the same. Like, seventies were I mean, when I think now about

Eileen Kelly (1:21:24)
Yeah. Seventies were a wild time.

Kira Sabin (1:21:28)
wild time and just like how many of my friends grew up with dads that were Vietnam vets and we didn't talk about sometimes night terrors and just them coming back with right addiction issues. Yep. Right? we just I'm I'm I'm really surprised why we don't have these conversations more because I think there's a lot for us to learn about where we came from but then how we can also

Eileen Kelly (1:21:38)
Yeah, they grew up in a house with screaming and substance abuse and all sorts of Yeah.

Kira Sabin (1:21:57)
You know, hold on to what we believe but do better for the future.

Eileen Kelly (1:22:02)
Absolutely.

Kira Sabin (1:22:03)
You know, that's th

what I what I think the point is. Like I will always be proud to grow up during the ridiculousness of the eighties. My God, I love the eighties so much. You know, just all of the things and thank God bef ⁓ we grew up before phones and computers but I also wanna learn how to do better for these new generations because I don't wanna pass on the shit that my mom passed out to me.

Eileen Kelly (1:22:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right. And I've seen have you seen that video that whatever you call it, like

It's like a little video or a little gif or something where it's like an older woman has like a boulder and she passes it to the like the sort of l slightly less older woman behind her and then the like midlife woman who's like our age and then her daughter who's behind her and she looks at the daughter and she puts the boulder down onto the floor instead of handing it to the girl. That's that's us.

Kira Sabin (1:22:50)
Yeah.

I got chills. I got chills. That's

Eileen Kelly (1:23:03)
And that's,

you know, when I glitch, and I do, ⁓ that's what's happening, is I'm like, do I pass the boulder? Do I pass the boulder? No, no, I'm not gonna pass the boulder. What do I do with it? wait, I can put it down? Okay, you know, but it's not just like ⁓ seamless thing, it's like a clunky, awkward, uncomfortable thing.

Kira Sabin (1:23:24)
I mean, the hardest part is we actually have to question who we are. And that's hard for a lot of people who have not spent much time thinking about themselves or their choices or how they affect others. Like, but if you're not questioning, you know, like how do we become self-aware enough to become better and happier? Like, I'm not just what right. And I'm not saying you know, when I say heal, it's because like I'm a happier person now.

Eileen Kelly (1:23:44)
Right, if you're not curious, you're yeah.

Kira Sabin (1:23:53)
Right. I'm a kinder person now. I'm a I'm less funny. I used to be much funnier because it was all sarcasm and it was all, you know, bullshit. ⁓ you know.

Eileen Kelly (1:23:59)
It is true. I told one therapist

that he was a comedy tick on my neck. I'm like, you're like sucking all the joy and funny out of me.

Kira Sabin (1:24:07)
Haha!

But it's it's I actually have a podcast episode called like I you what I used to be funnier. Like that's because I was I was I was also quicker, but the ⁓ ADHD Perimenopause combo has made that a little bit harder, but hopefully someday that'll come back. But this has been this has been awesome. And Eileen and I feel like we could probably we could probably do this for about seven more hours.

Eileen Kelly (1:24:35)
This has really been awesome.

We we sure could. We really could. There's so much more I wanna say. But we're gonna have to save it for for part two. No. No, we we're gonna have to save it for part two. But ⁓ I I I I wanna revisit I wanna revisit the funny part 'cause I feel like we could have a whole episode just on that and also how younger people receive our humor. You know, because like

Kira Sabin (1:24:43)
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to Yeah, I'm not yeah.

Yeah. I'll come back anytime I

Eileen Kelly (1:25:04)
joking about trauma to younger people. They're kind of like they're like, that's not okay. I'm like, isn't it though? It is. It's fine. Right? Right. They're like, that's pretty messed up.

Kira Sabin (1:25:04)
Yeah.

And they're like

Like, why would you say that?

It's okay, right? It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.

know, but

I remember saying that to my mom, right? About stu stories that she used to tell me. And I'm sure that she said it, yeah, ⁓ sure, like stories about like in the 50s and like, you know, how they would like, you know, boys could do whatever basically, and you know, and I was like, Mom, that's not right. And she's like, sure it is, you know, like it's it's so interesting. I will say the worst part of Gen X.

Eileen Kelly (1:25:27)
Really?

Right, yeah, yeah. That's not okay. Right, yeah, yeah.

Kira Sabin (1:25:49)
is the fact that I say like 17 times the sentence and since I edit my own podcast, it's humbling. Humbling how much.

Eileen Kelly (1:25:53)
Yeah.

And end time

consuming. End time consuming. ⁓ my god, just stop.

Kira Sabin (1:26:03)
Yeah.

I mean I grew up in small town Wisconsin.

How could I have a valley girl accent? I don't know. We We all do.

Eileen Kelly (1:26:10)
I don't know, but we all do. It doesn't matter where you wear it. It reached every

cr every crevice of of American society. That's what hands across America spread. The word like we all It was like ⁓

Kira Sabin (1:26:21)
Hey

Hands across America!

Eileen Kelly (1:26:31)
It was a contagion. ⁓ my god. ⁓ God, I loved it. ⁓ Yeah. New Jersey. What's that?

Kira Sabin (1:26:31)
We need a new my god. God bless the eighties. And like But I have one question, cause you grew up in in New Jersey, right? Okay, so I have

one question for you. Have you ever been to class action park? I'm sorry. Action park. What's it called? What's it called? Action park. Sorry. Sorry.

Eileen Kelly (1:26:51)
yeah. I have I have Action Park. No, the yes, one of the shows was

one of the movies was Call Class Action Park, I think. ⁓ yes, in fact I have I have I

have an episode about it and I have a t-shirt on my on my website just for New Jersey New York New Jersey folks that is a special gen X yeah special Gen X t-shirt about surviving action park I sure did that's where I had my first date and it did not go well

Kira Sabin (1:27:06)
Do you

Like I survived.

You did? ⁓ did it not? That's my god. I my husband and I

watched that what the documentary when it came out on HBO a couple years ago and

Eileen Kelly (1:27:34)
my god. A I

felt so validated by that documentary. The one guy who talked about going to an abandoned psychiatric hospital, he's like, people would be like, What do you do this weekend? And it would be like, I broke my arm at Action Park, and then someone else would be like, We were in this abandoned psychiatric hospital and we got chased.

Kira Sabin (1:27:38)
Right.

Hehehehe

Eileen Kelly (1:27:54)
Like I chased Price for guys and then someone else would be like, I went to my grandmother's and it was like, Yeah, it's all valid. It all on any given Monday, those were the stories. And Yep, that's growing up in New Jersey.

Kira Sabin (1:28:00)
All all of those things all of those things. my god. No, but

I watched that documentary and the first half particularly, like I cried from laughter because it was just the seven like the eighties of, you got hurt. Who cares? Doesn't matter. You know what I mean?

Eileen Kelly (1:28:19)
it was teen it was like high teenagers that were supervising already dangerous r r rides.

Kira Sabin (1:28:25)
god. I know I can't believe

how did we all make it here? I don't know. And I guess a lot of us maybe didn't. Yeah. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (1:28:33)
I don't know some people die. I mean a bunch of people died there. Like

I'm laughing, but no, I did not I did not get out unscathed and that was my one and only time. And I also was not an athletic or coordinated girl. So to be like, Yeah, let's go to Action Park for our first date, it was like i am I in my own worst nightmare? what is happening? Yeah. Yeah.

Kira Sabin (1:28:56)
That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (1:29:00)
Again, it's like, laugh about it, I survived it, but would you want it for your kids? Nope. No sorry.

Kira Sabin (1:29:02)
Good types.

And I feel like

that's all you know what? That's all you have to kind of use as a a filter of would I want this especially like a child that I care about? No, of course not. You know? And then then we can go, yeah, that's not that's not okay. Right.

Eileen Kelly (1:29:15)
Litmus test, right?

And then you're like, wait, that puts it in perspective. Like maybe I should

process that. Yeah. my god. Well, this was so much fun. Thank you so much for reaching back with my random random DM to you. ⁓ I can't wait. ⁓ I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna keep asking, and you're gonna be back. I can't, I can't wait. We have so much more to talk about.

Kira Sabin (1:29:28)
Yeah.

Thank you, it was. I could talk about this forever.

Thank you for asking.

I'll be back. I'll talk. Listen, I'll talk about this shit. Yeah. I we'll we'll

talk next time about number one, how our parents' generation was the first one who saw birth control come in. And then, cause you and I both have silent generations. They were part of the hippie world, right? Right? So they were, they were not. Right. And so, and I think that my parents resented.

Eileen Kelly (1:30:04)
Right. No. Mm mm.

Kira Sabin (1:30:12)
Like kind of having kids, like knowing that now they had options in a way.

Eileen Kelly (1:30:16)
Right.

Well, my parents were ca Irish Catholic, so it still didn't it didn't it didn't apply to us. We lived in our own weird world. In my house, it was nineteen forty-two. There was nothing but Irish music and Frank Sinatra. It was like walking into a time capsule like every time you came home. Yeah, and it was like whatever's yeah, like whatever's going on out there, those are not the rules in here.

Kira Sabin (1:30:19)
Right.

my god. But that I love Ireland enough that that's amazing.

Doesn't matter.

Did the Pope say anything about it? Well then it doesn't matter.

Eileen Kelly (1:30:46)
Exactly. That's right. Was it sanctioned by the Pope? No. Well, there you have it. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Kira Sabin (1:30:48)
I didn't even grow up Catholic. My

husband is recovering Catholic. So I I I hear a lot about it. I grew up Methodist. It was it was light. Yeah.

Eileen Kelly (1:31:00)
Yeah.

I know, truly.

All right. I'm gonna set up our next conversation because I cannot wait. This has been so much fun. And please check out Kira on thrivewithkira.com, K-I-R-A. It was so much fun having you here. And I can't wait to do it again. All right. Bye.

Kira Sabin (1:31:07)
Okay. Okay.

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Yay. We'll totally do it.