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Shine On Success
Shine on Success is a dynamic, story-driven podcast where extraordinary entrepreneurs, visionary leaders, and resilient change-makers share their journeys to success, revealing both the challenges and the strategies that led to their breakthroughs. Each episode offers a unique blend of inspiring personal stories, practical business insights, and actionable advice, allowing our guests to connect with an engaged, growth-oriented audience ready to be motivated and uplifted. By joining us, you’ll not only have the opportunity to showcase your expertise and inspire listeners but also to be part of a powerful platform that celebrates ambition, innovation, and the courage to turn dreams into reality.
Shine On Success
Built for Significance: Lessons on Leadership, Legacy, and Courage
What does it take to rise from adversity and build a life that impacts generations? In this powerful episode of Shine on Success, host Dionne Malush sits down for a raw and inspiring conversation about leadership that goes beyond titles and accolades. Together, they explore what it means to serve with courage, have hard conversations with heart, and move from survival mode to a life of lasting significance.
Whether you’re leading a team, building a business, or shaping your own future, this conversation will remind you that true leadership isn’t about being in charge; it’s about helping others win. Get ready for insights that will challenge you, stories that will move you, and a framework for becoming the kind of leader people respect and never forget.
Connect with Jeff here:
Website: https://www.jeffhancher.com/
https://www.firmfeedbackbook.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-hancher/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeff.hancher/
Connect with Dionne Malush
- Instagram: @dionnerealtyonepgh
- LinkedIN: /in/dionnemalush
- Website: www.dionnemalush.com
- Facebook: /dmalush
- LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/dionnemalush
Today's guest is more than just a leader. He's a builder of people, and I should know I was his third coaching client when he started his business. Five years later, he's still one of the most powerful voices in my corner and one of my dearest friends. Jeff Hancher's story is one of grit, leadership and unwavering purpose. He grew up in southwestern Pennsylvania, the son of two disabled parents, surrounded by adversity, but he made a decision early on in his life that he would be different. After serving in the US Army, he entered the corporate world as a blue-collar worker and he got promoted 10 times at a Fortune 500 company. But success wasn't enough. He wanted significance. Today he's a national speaker, coach and now a published author with Maxwell Leadership. His new book Firm Feedback in a Fragile World how Maxwell Leadership. His new book Firm Feedback in a Fragile World how to Build a Winning Culture with Critical Conversations is a bold guide for leaders who want to build high-performing teams without compromising truth or compassion. Let's welcome my friend Jeff to the show. Hi, jeff, welcome.
Speaker 2:Oh, so good to be with you. I'm loving the journey with you and watching you grow. And look by the way you have helped me grow so much as well. You know I don't know who's helping who here, but you've been a steady support and encourager in my life. So honored to be on your show, honored to contribute to your show in any way I can and touch the listeners any way possible.
Speaker 1:I love that, and so what I always like to start with is my first question is what is one thing you want people to know about you beyond your resume?
Speaker 2:You know I always say that when I leave this world. I want people to be glad I was here and really upset that I'm gone, and I don't mean that in an arrogant way. I want people to know that Jeff Hancher was a guy that truly wanted to see people win. You know, jeff Hancher was a guy that was rooting and cheering for the underdog.
Speaker 1:And that's what I want my life to be.
Speaker 2:That's exactly why I did leave the corporate world and the job and the career that I loved is there came a point in my life that I felt like there was more purpose and nothing fulfills me more than serving people, and so I want people to know that you know to see behind the trophies that I've won, or you know the podcast awards, the trophies that I've won, or you know the podcast awards or whatever.
Speaker 2:Those things are nice. But I want people to remember me like kind of like maybe, how my, my children will remember me. You know my children don't care about my trophies, or you know accolades or best this or best that. They just want to know that dad cares. And I'm trying to be that same way with the greater community that I serve is I just want to be known as a guy that truly and genuinely wants to see people reach their best.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it's working what you're doing, so I don't think there's gonna be any problem with that. I love the idea of what you said about being how your kids feel, because that's important, because they don't care, like I didn't care about things that my parents did or didn't do, and I just loved them and I knew about me. I love that. That's really cool. So you grew up with two disabled parents and that truly shaped you. What lessons did that season teach you about strength and responsibility?
Speaker 2:Man, I will tell you this adversity thing. None of us are excused from it. So I'm not here to claim that I had it worse than somebody or better than somebody, but it was tough. You know, childhood was very, very tough. You know two very sick parents that were in and out of hospitals, in and out, of, you know, operating rooms, in and out of rehabs. My parents were good people but they had a lot of challenges literally fighting for their life. Neither one of them ever worked a day in my life. They loved us well, never questioned that, me and my brother. I know they loved us well, but you know they just didn't have the capacity to give the care that they probably wanted to. And you know, and this led to us moving from house to house. You know, because we weren't able to pay rent, this led to utilities being shut off, you name it. It was a worst case scenario. But what I do know is we all are going to face some level of adversity and we all have the opportunity to let this adversity be an anchor or a propeller, and I think how we overcome adversity is the ultimate differentiator.
Speaker 2:You know, in my teenage years and even in my early 20s, I was just angry. You know how could this be happening? I was mad at God. How could there even be a God if you know all of this is happening to us? How could my mom be this sick? How could she have to go for another surgery? Why is it that at nine years old, I have to be trained on how to care for her when I'm alone and she has a grandma seizure? You know which is a traumatic experience.
Speaker 2:And you know you you can let this take you out. You can. You can let this. You know imposter syndrome, poverty mentality. I'm never going to be good enough. I didn't know how to find success. I just knew I wanted it different and I was just so angry at everything. All I wanted to do was fight. I led a life of crime and mischief and brushes with the law. You know all of these things happen. But as I started to mature which the military did a lot of that for me the military changed my life and I started connecting with the right people. That had been where I wanted to go and that started to transform how I thought and how I pursued success. But I will tell you the adversity. It can teach you something, it can give you an edge if you allow it. You know a work ethic, you know a pursuit that not everybody has that and if you can use it for good, it can be a significant advantage.
Speaker 1:I agree with you 100% about that. The stories that we have to tell are great and I've listened through many of your stories and this is just. We could be on this podcast for a couple of days. So when I look at you, I think you've lived several lives a soldier, executive coach, now author. When did you first know you were meant to lead others? What was that turning point? You knew that.
Speaker 2:I think I saw I saw hints of it even when I was younger definitely started to transform more when I became an army soldier. I would tell you, like you kind of know you're going that way whenever you can influence people without a title. You know I tell people all the time to say Jeff, I want, I want to make bigger impact, I want to be a leader, I want the title. I always tell people the same advice, which is start acting now like the person you want to become, and there's hints of this that I think start bubbling up.
Speaker 2:The X factor of any great leader and what I believe to be an ultimate requirement is you have to have a genuine care for people, and that's not something that you can read in a book or something that can be taught no-transcript. Until I started to experience it for myself and I can tell you this Dion with any level of success that I've ever had, it's at the hand of great leadership. You know people that saw greatness in me believed in me when I didn't believe in myself, and there came a point in my life that I wanted to give that back to other people, so much so that I've dedicated my life to it.
Speaker 1:So you had this job. It was a really good job, and one day you came out of the gate and said I'm going to start a coaching business. And then, two and a half months later, covid hit. So how did you pick up the pieces at that moment? Because that was frightening for all of us, right? Oh, pick up the pieces at that moment because that was frightening for all of us right, oh yeah, our business stopped completely.
Speaker 1:You were starting a new business with minimal clients. What were your thought process and how did you pull yourself out of that?
Speaker 2:It was the scariest decision I've ever made in my life was to leave that company. You know, I had upside, I was promotable, I had a very significant unvested stock portfolio that I was leaving behind. But I got to this place. I had started the podcast in early 2019 and the market started to speak. We were winning awards from Apple. Things started to happen and I became fulfilled and I started a side hustle, if you will. I had one coaching client who approached me for coaching and I was doing some workshops and consulting on the weekends and I became so fulfilled doing it and we built an Instagram page and people started. There was a way they could reach out to me based off of the podcast, and so I felt this stirring of man. I think this is what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 2:But growing up in poverty, growing up with nothing this poverty mentality hit me hard. Dion, this imposter syndrome hit me hard. Of what are you thinking? You're doing a disservice to your family. What if this business doesn't work out? What if this is just a pipe dream? I mean, I was on track to retire at probably 55, 54 years old and just ride off into the sunset. Why would I leave all of that Like why? Who would do in the right mind? But I just kept feeling this tugging and this, you know, this funeral test. Am I going to look back and regret not doing this?
Speaker 2:I remember being on a plane taking off from Atlanta on a business trip and with my corporate job, and we're on the runway and these thoughts do I stay? Do I go? What if I go and it fails? What if I stay? And I regret not leaving? I became so stressed I could feel a tightness in my chest. I start sweating. I'm getting nauseous, I'm feeling like I'm going to get sick. We're not even at 10,000 feet cruising altitude and I have to get to the bathroom. And so I get up and I start walking toward the bathroom and I could hear the flight attendants like get back in your seat. Next thing I know I wake up in the aisle there's ice packs all over me. They're talking about landing the plane. I'm saying what's going on? And they said you passed out and had a seizure. We're landing the plane and I'm like I'm fine, don't land the plane. I feel so much better. I don't even feel sick anymore.
Speaker 2:I find out that it was all stress induced. Wow, so you want to talk about, like a guy that understands the fear of taking the leap, the fear, the risk that an entrepreneur takes, like I absolutely get it. And, to top it off, I wasn't leaving with a big clientele At that time. I had two clients and you, shortly after, were the third. But you and I met during the shutdown of the pandemic, if you remember, and I thought when this pandemic hit, it's over. Like I can't believe the timing of this. By the way, everybody was laying people off, furloughing people because the world was going nuts. Like I can't believe the timing of this. By the way, everybody was laying people off, furloughing people because the world was going nuts. And you know the company that I work for, they were doing mass layoffs and I'm like I didn't even go back to my job, like this is crazy. So I had to figure it out and I remember you were on one of my calls actually during that time.
Speaker 2:And I just dedicated myself, of saying look, people are losing their mind. This is an opportunity for me to serve, and so I just started doing Zoom calls for free and people would jump on and I would just try to encourage and inspire and equip leaders to, you know, navigate these tough environments and ultimately, that's how you and I connected. So, yes, very scary, but I would say this to anybody that's taken the journey into the unknown is worry less about the results and think more about the problems that you can solve and how you can serve people. That's what got me through that chaos.
Speaker 1:I'm sure, and I remember one day in our business where I had one of my worst days ever and my friend Chuck had passed away and he was my coach prior to you and we spent a lot of time talking about all of this and then he was gone. I was having the worst day of my company at that point. You know, we had great success at the beginning. It was super fun. We disrupted the market and then people started leaving and going to other companies. Someone that I really cared about sat with me one week and the next week he came in to say that he accepted some money from another company to join.
Speaker 1:And you were the very first call that I made and I think we talked for probably an hour and a half or two hours while I cried my eyes out sitting at the lake over in Cannonsburg, and you have no idea what that day did. It was really a turning point for me as a human being and I realized that I couldn't let all of these people define who. I was right that I had to stand back up, get back up, get out of that car. And, you know, keep pushing forward. And you impacted me more than you know from day to day, but I think we've been through a lot, you and me together. We've talked about a lot of things and we've been through a lot, but I think about you like living a life of survival and then, all of a sudden, you're you're significant. What mindset shift did you have to have, to go from survival mode all the time to a significant impact that you're having today?
Speaker 2:You know, I texted this to somebody last night and it's it's worth.
Speaker 2:It's worth repeating. You know this survival mode it can, it can, it can create a lot of bad decisions. When you're in survival mode, you can do things that are outside of your normal character. You know, hence the life of crime and all of these things, and you can carry that guilt with you, that shame with you. You can allow it to identify who you are, how you were raised, the decisions you made in the past. That's what you did, that's not who you are. And I read this quote. It said forgive yourself for what you did in survival mode. It's a new chapter now and somebody listening needed to hear that. Right, but I will tell you there were turning points. You know, simon Sinek says it best when he says people will work for their what, but they'll die for their why.
Speaker 2:I would love to tell you that you know I had this big strategy and this big plan for success. The reality was is that I consistently engaged. My motivation you know my why was not, you know, putting a Rolex on my wrist. You know my why was not driving fancy cars. You know my why starting out was I wanted to make enough money to pay for my parents copay, so they didn't have to cut pills and have to make a pill stretch. You know that that will get you up early in the morning. Yeah, you know I didn't want. You know if my, if my young son, who was 18 months old when I got promoted into sales, you know, someday he's going to be old enough that maybe he's going to want to play basketball and if he wants to wear Air Jordans, I want to make sure he can, because I remember what it felt like to wear the knockoffs. Me too. I didn't want that for him and I didn't want that, you know, for my family. I didn't want to live in a one bedroom apartment.
Speaker 2:You know one of my chores growing up, dion, was, you know, my dad and mom. They would stack the old metal coffee cans in the kitchen and the reason that we kept those was one of my responsibilities as a kid. One of my chores was I would get tin snips and I would cut squares out of that coffee can. And I would cut squares out of that coffee can and I would pop, rivet those squares to the floor of our car so that you know, gravel and snow and stuff wouldn't shoot up in our face while we were driving because the floorboard was rusted out. Like I'm telling you like this.
Speaker 2:You talk about survival mode. I mean to break out of a generation of poverty. Somebody's got to pay the price and if you're listening today and you're like this resonates with me, or I know I know somebody that's pushing through that they need to hear this the price that you pay will be worth it. You know there's an African proverb that says the person that grows the tree will never enjoy the shade. You may be the one that has to plant the tree. And so this survival mode created this underdog mentality in me. Look, had to fight a lack of confidence, had to battle through insecurity. You know I never got a college degree. If they really knew who I was when they promoted me and promoted me and promoted me, imposter syndrome had become my best friend, because I know every time I'm feeling it, I'm going to another level, I'm going to a new place, and so I've come to embrace this thing. But I will tell you this survival mode embrace it, because it can bring out the best in you, if you allow it. This is exactly how you know.
Speaker 2:You hear that story about a mom that's lifting a car off of a child that's trapped. That's survival mode. How is that humanly possible? Everybody's scratching their head. My gosh, did you see that lady lift that car? How's that even possible? She engaged her motivation. She sure did. Survival can do that for you. Hungry people will eat, they will eat, and so when you feel like the cards are stacked against you, I find that when you can tie your pursuit into something meaningful to you, you're not going to let hell or high water hold you back from winning. Now, for me, that got unhealthy at times where I overdid it, and it's like you know I would tell my wife, I'll see you when I see you.
Speaker 2:Like I might leave at five in the morning and get back at nine o'clock at night, but I'm not losing. So there's balance to all things right, because you can. That that underdog can be a perfectionist, it's never good enough. Yeah, this that underdog can be a perfectionist, it's never good enough. This leads to a whole different set of problems. So you've got to balance through those things and the key is getting the right people around you to help you stay grounded.
Speaker 1:I love that and I also want to tell a little story about a God wink Like I've been using that lately, because I think it's so many times. I didn't realize that God was speaking to me. But he was, and there was a day that I was sitting upstairs and I was, I was on the floor and I was listening to Ed podcast I mean Ed Milet podcast and he talked to me and really talked to me in that podcast and he said something about God being with you in the mountains and the valleys. The very next day, I get a text message from you saying I'm here for you in the mountains and the valleys. Wow, exact words. And I was like, oh, like, how does that happen? Like I never heard that before. And then I heard it again from you, like, and I think I sent you a text. I'm like are you an angel? He's not an angel.
Speaker 2:Man. That's powerful, though.
Speaker 1:That's so amazing and I just I can never forget it because that was such an important time. I've been through my own share of stuff, like you, you know, and we. We've shared so many things, but that was so impactful for me and I truly believe you are one of the hardest working people I've ever met. You have not stopped since I met you. You literally haven't. You've had a couple of vacations here and there. I see that enjoying a little bit of your life, but you do not stop in pursuit of your and your goals and your dreams and your legacy that you're leaving for your kids, which is unbelievable. Your parents will be so very proud of you.
Speaker 2:That means a lot to me for you to say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about a book Like you're writing. You're writing, you wrote a book, it's finished, it's published, but it's not yet out there yet, right, a couple more weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, june 17th and it's ready to go.
Speaker 1:So tell me about it. So what led you to write it? And then why now?
Speaker 2:You know, the book title kind of says it all Firm Feedback in a Fragile World. This is a subject that continues to come up as a consultant that I am today, but also came up for years as a senior leader in a Fortune 500 company, and part of me writing this book is very personal, but part of it too is that I believe that it solves one of the biggest challenges that leaders face today. I went through years of succession planning notes from my corporate career and figured out that really people that weren't getting promoted or advancing or you know, going into their highest leadership opportunities. It came down to really two things. The number one reason was a lack of emotional intelligence and I thought that had been played out pretty well. I didn't want to go down that lane. But the number two thing was a lack of challenging leadership or the ability to navigate tough conversations in a firm way but viewed as a gift.
Speaker 2:And I started thinking about this and I started thinking about the leaders that made the biggest impact on my life. I'm talking about my Mount Rushmore. You know, if I had to pick four people that have made the biggest impact on my life, what were some common threads? And one of the common threads was they were all tough on me. They were all tough. There's a story that I tell in the book and I don't want to give you too much. But I get promoted as a blue collar truck driver picking up dirty clothes at a company called Centos.
Speaker 1:I get promoted into sales and I'm a fish out of water.
Speaker 2:I wanted to go into sales because I was told that you can make commissions. And they drove fancy cars. You probably heard of them they're Honda Accords. I mean, these cars were amazing. I wanted to be a baller, Right. So I get my big break in sales.
Speaker 2:Life is good. You know, we got a 401k. We got medical benefits. You know we're looking in neighborhoods to get my parents out of their one bedroom apartment. Life is really good.
Speaker 2:And one morning I got a call that I had gotten so many times from my father, which was you need to get to the hospital. Mom's not doing well. And I did what I always did I went to the hospital. And this day it was different, because this was the day that I would hold my mom for the last time. And Dion, it crushed me. The thing that my why? My motivation not that I didn't love my wife and my son at the time and my father and my brother, but it was like I just wanted so I was just starting to turn this corner that I could give my mom a different life, that maybe one day she would actually see the ocean that she always dreamed of. And she's gone and my motivation's gone. My will to perform is gone.
Speaker 2:I didn't no longer care about the Honda Accord I was driving, but I had this leader at the time who, up until that point, he knew a little bit of my background and my story. This guy made so many deposits into my life. This is a guy that took me into the restroom once and taught me how to tie a Windsor knot. He took me to Joseph A Bank and taught me about what business fashion was. He would keep me after work and teach me interest creating statements and how to overcome sales objections. He would be in the car with me, coaching me through sales calls and letting me observe him. This is a guy that I knew. He wanted to see me win and he knew my why.
Speaker 2:But when my mom died, I lost all professional composure. I had an attitude. This went on for days and one day he pulled me into his office and he said enough's enough. My heart breaks that your mom is gone. I know how much she meant to you, but I'm not going to sit around and watch you destroy your life. You have so much potential. I believe in you more than you believe in yourself. I'm giving you 24 hours. You have a choice. You either come back and be the person I know that you're capable of being or you can't be on my team.
Speaker 2:This hit me so hard because the old, rebellious 18 year old, 17 year old Jeff would have said listen, you're not going to tell me what to do. Nobody tells Jeff Hancher what to do. Have a good life, pal, and I would have been gone. The reason I didn't do that is because I knew he was right and I knew he cared. It wasn't about a sales number. He truly wanted to see the best out of me. I went back the next day and I recommitted to him.
Speaker 2:I ended up making my first president's club that year. I went on to make about eight more. I went on to have 10 more promotions. I started my own company. I'm publishing with Maxwell and Simon Schuster. Why do I tell you all that? Because I'm great. No, because I had a leader in one of the most pivotal moments in my life that earned the right to give me firm feedback that set the path to my life. So many leaders avoid these tough conversations. They haven't been told how to give them. They don't know how to set the table to have a firm conversation in a world that's really fragile. Fragile with turnover, fragile with trying to retain top talent, fragile with political and social injustice, quiet, quitting you go down the list. It's never been harder to lead, and so my hope and my prayer is this book is going to give every leader, everybody that wants to make impact, every parent. It's going to give them a framework. It's not easy, but it is simple to earn the right to have tough conversations that can transform a life.
Speaker 1:I definitely feel that because when helping my parents when my dad passed, I felt the same way that you felt. I felt like what am I going to? What am I working for now? What am I doing, you know? Cause I didn't get to give them all the things I wanted to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It started. You know I started to do some things. I mean, I've been doing things secretly for years, but I've also started doing things you know to for them and helping them. I had all these other things that I wanted to share and it was really difficult. That part of it was very hard to get through and if you think about that D think about that like one of your most painful moments of your life.
Speaker 2:There were probably people that were giving you advice or listen. You got to get over it. The people that didn't earn a right to speak into your life probably annoyed you to no end.
Speaker 1:And you were like I don't want to hear it Like you just want to be mad. Yeah, you just want to be mad. Yeah, I just want to be mad. You just want to be mad.
Speaker 2:But I'll bet the people that are closest to you that are ride or die. You had different ears for them when they said, dion, enough's enough. You have so much to give in this life. It probably hit a little bit different. That's what we're talking about here. We're talking about how do we earn the right to give feedback and leader. That's listening. What if you don't? What if you don't?
Speaker 2:There's a young Jeff Hancher that's going to come into your path and they're going to be counting on you to lead well. Leadership is the highest calling on planet Earth. It is the highest calling on planet Earth. We literally have the opportunity not to just win business awards.
Speaker 2:Forget about it. We literally have the opportunity to transform lives. You want good business success. You want a great recruiting strategy. Build your leadership culture, build your leadership acumen. We're not out here to become bosses that people report to. We're here to become leaders that people don't want to let down. That's the mission, that's what we're aiming for, and I'm here to tell you it is absolutely possible. Regardless of your background, regardless of your leadership skill and your leadership knowledge, there is a formula to win at the highest leadership level.
Speaker 1:I definitely can't wait to read your book because I need some help, but I think I'm doing it, I'm getting there, I'm working on that part of myself to be that one that they don't want to disappoint, because I love. I love them so much. You know, I love people, but I also have troubles with the tough conversations, as you know, which I needed to make quite a bit of them in the last year. But you know, that's why you have a coach they can push you along.
Speaker 1:It's so funny because I think about you and I think why is he still? Why is he still coaching with me, like he's got busy things, many more important things to do. But you know what he knows in my heart, how I believed in him and he doesn't give up on me so that's right, that's right. Which he's probably should some days. But so let me ask you this what fuels you now, even when no one's watching?
Speaker 2:Legacy. It is legacy and I think legacy is a little overused sometimes, you know, because I think it's about the legacy that I'm building currently and you've probably heard me say this, dion but for the sake of the listener, like if you were to think about your great grandparents, could you name their first and last name, including your great grandmother's maiden name? This is four people. You know maiden names, most people. Less than 1% of people can tell you.
Speaker 1:They don't even. I mean, this is two generations by the way, and the listener right now.
Speaker 2:I'm asking you could you name your grandfather's first and last name, great-grandfather, and your great-grandmother's first and last name, including your great-grandmother's maiden name? Most of you are saying, no, I couldn't Were these people important. Yeah, they're your family.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You don't even know their name. Here's proof. This is proof, and I've asked this question to thousands of people. In two generations nobody's even going to know we were here, yeah.
Speaker 1:Not even our family is going to even know we were here. That hit me really hard when I was at your seminar and you did that and I sat there thinking it's so true. So now I kind of live in that idea of like how do we keep this going generation after generation after generation? I?
Speaker 2:don't know, but you are definitely working on it. I think it's impact, it's deposit, it's kind of that starfish on the beach mentality. It's like all the starfish are washed up and the kids throw starfish in and some guy walks by and says what are you doing, kid, you can't save all those fish. And he picks one up and throws it in and says but I can save him, I can save him.
Speaker 1:You know I'm not here to get statues built.
Speaker 2:I'm not here to, you know, be rich and famous. I'm not here to get buildings and libraries named after me. If that happens, great. But if I can find one person, if I can find the next Dion Malish and maybe make an impact on her life and give her the confidence that she needs to run her race and become who she's called to be, that's the mission, that's what I'm here for, and there's so much rooted in confidence. Marcus Garvey said it best once when he said if you lack confidence in self, you're twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence, you have won even before you begin. This confidence thing is so, so important and so many people undermine themselves. They count themselves out. I want to be the cheerleader that says no, you're better, you're built for more, you can do more, and not just give them a pep rally, but give them real tools to become who they were created to be.
Speaker 1:Can I share something with you? Yeah, so three days before my friend and your friend, chuck, passed away, I went to his house. It was three days later he passed and as I was getting ready to leave, he had me, he had me read a poem and I read it out loud and got up and he walked and he doesn't. It wasn't walking much at that point. So he walked me out and he got up and he walked and he wasn't walking much at that point. So he walked me out and as I was leaving, he whispered in my ear that I was that person in the starfish story.
Speaker 2:That.
Speaker 1:I was throwing out the stars. I can't even remember if you brought that up today Like, how does that happen with us? I don't know, but that's Chuck's message to me, his dying words to me. Be that person that affects just one. So thank you for that. So, oh, my goodness, I'm about to cry here. So let me ask you this what advice do you give to the leader who's sitting in silence right now listening to this call, avoiding the hard conversations out of fear of conflict?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we call those the passive leader. We call those the people pleasers. Let me talk to that person specifically. You are salt to the earth. You have a big heart. You love well. You have a sheet cake for everybody's birthday. You write, handwrite cards. When they're sick, you send gifts when the babies are born, you're at every funeral and when they stab you in the back, you say these words After all I've done, I can't believe they treated me this way. Here's some hard news. I'm Jeff Hancher. I care about you. I want to see you win. They like you. They don't respect you. They don't respect you.
Speaker 2:Leaders need to be respected. The passive leader is very likable, but they're not respected. The aggressive leader the other extreme they're not liked at all. Some would say they're not even respected, but they can drive results. Right in the middle is where we need to be.
Speaker 2:The framework I talk about in the book Dionne, it's a three-part framework Expectations, feedback and accountability. The passive leader I'm going to encourage you listening. You can be passive, you can be quiet, you can be shy, you can be introverted and you can make huge leadership impact. We should not be looking at feedback as good or bad. We should be looking at it as data and information. You know that that passive leader right now is out. You know they see a why? Because they have a big heart. And so they go up to the dog and they say, hey, pup, jump in the car, I'm going to take care of you. And the dog bites them. Why? Because the dog's been abused.
Speaker 2:That passive leader doesn't give up. They go get treats, they go get blankets. They prove to that dog I'm not here to hurt you, but there still has to be a standard. I'll role play it like this this earning the right to have a tough conversation. And how do we set expectations and give feedback? You know role play scenario Dion and I we're going to a business convention in Nashville in two weeks and we're preparing to have a booth because we're going to talk about our keynote speaking abilities and we're going to go on a world circuit and there's going to be speaker agents there and we got to bring our A game, we got to bring our best game.
Speaker 2:And so me and Dion are in a call right now and we're preparing for this big convention coming up and I say, dion, we're going to look our best, we're going to talk our best, we're going to bring our best. Hey, listen, if we're walking into that convention and I happen to smell some bad breath on you, or some coffee breath or anything like that, would you want me to let you know?
Speaker 1:Yes, great, why? Because I don't. I don't want to make a mistake, I don't want someone to judge me.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, you know what else I know about you, dion? What how people view you. It matters to you, and I love that about you because you understand that sometimes you have one shot to make a first impression.
Speaker 2:And so based off what I know about you and what you just told me. If that situation ever occurs, I'm fully committed. I'll let you know. Thank you. Two weeks from now we're walking into the convention. I smell it and I pull into my pocket and I pull out a mint and I say Dion, you remember, a couple of weeks ago we had a conversation. Your breath it's a little, it's a little foul today. But I have mints and I hand you one and you take it. What do you say to me?
Speaker 1:I say thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for letting me know. Now erase New scenario. You and I are in a convenience store. We've never talked in our lives, I haven't said anything to you. I'm in line in front of you, you're behind me. I smell the same bad breath, exact same data, and I turn around and I say, man, your breath stinks.
Speaker 1:You're offended. How dare you? Who are you to tell me it?
Speaker 2:doesn't mean I'm wrong. Matter of fact. I'm right, matter of fact. Your breath does stink, but it lands differently. Here's why, in one scenario, I earned the right and I attached to success, to what matters to you most. Now I earned the right to have a very tough some would say offensive conversation. In the other scenario, the data is exactly the same and I think I'm doing you a favor and you blow up on me. Yeah, see, leaders, we can't think about being right. We have to be thinking about what's right. In the book, I teach you how to lay this framework so that you earn the right to have the hardest conversations and they're not seen as penalty, they're seen as deposits and it's possible.
Speaker 1:I love that, and what a great way to end. I can tell you one thing for sure, jeff I would not be the leader I am today, as I'm growing, without your voice. In my life You've taught me to lead with strength and soul both of them. So try to be that middle point leader, right when I have both sides of it and your new book I cannot wait to read. It has to be a must read for anyone who wants to grow their influence without losing their integrity. So to everyone listening, how can they find, how can they get a copy of your book? How can they find out more about you?
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, and thank you for allowing me to be a part of your journey. I find it a true pleasure, truly. And you're only getting started. That's very clear.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm going to be 57 tomorrow. Say again I'm going to be 57 tomorrow.
Speaker 2:That's right. June 5th, you share a birthday with my brother, that's right. I'm turning the big five book anywhere, of course Amazon, barnes, noble Smith, simon.
Speaker 2:Schuster, you can buy it anywhere, but if you go to firmfeedbackbookcom, we have all the free bonuses. These aren't gimmicks, these are content bonuses. I didn't write a book so people could win leadership trivia. I wrote this book because I want people to be equipped to execute. Every chapter has application, activities, questions. But then you go to this from feedbackbookcom, we start sending you more content, more curriculum, so that you can work with the book to make bigger leadership impact. I would love to be a part of that journey.
Speaker 1:And I love that. So, for everyone listening, if this episode helped, you share it, because the conversations we're afraid to have might be the ones that change everything. And, jeff, thank you for our friendship, for everything, for your example, for your service, for always leading from the front. You are one of the most incredible people that I know and I adore you.
Speaker 2:I adore you, Dee. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Speaker 1:You're so welcome.
