Resilience, Systems, and the Inner Game of Business with Matthew Stafford

What happens when setbacks stop being roadblocks and start becoming teachers? In this powerful episode of Shine On Success, host Dionne Malush sits down with entrepreneur and mentor Matthew Stafford to unpack what it really takes to build lasting success. From navigating failed partnerships to rebuilding businesses with strong systems and processes, this conversation goes beyond surface-level strategy and into the mindset shifts that separate sustainable growth from burnout. Matthew shares hard-won lessons from over three decades in business and explains why entrepreneurship is the ultimate inner game.

Together, Dionne Malush and Matthew Stafford explore resilience, coachability, gratitude, and the habits that help leaders stay grounded through uncertainty. You’ll hear why being happy on the journey matters more than chasing the next milestone, how daily rituals build emotional regulation, and how community and honest feedback accelerate growth. If you’re an entrepreneur, business owner, or leader navigating change, scaling a company, or redefining success on your own terms, this episode will leave you inspired, grounded, and ready to keep moving forward with clarity and confidence.

Connect with Matthew here:

Website: https://buildgrowscale.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewstafforddotcom

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/matthewjacobstafford

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/build.grow.scale

Transcript

Meet Matthew Stafford

Why Helping Others Comes First

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Have you ever faced a setback so big it could have ended everything? But instead it became the turning point that changed your entire life. My guest today knows exactly what that feels like. Over the past three decades, Matthew Stafford has built and scaled multiple businesses, from concrete to software, from brick and mortar to e-commerce. As the managing partner of Build, Grow, Scale, he's helped thousands of entrepreneurs grow profitable online stores and guided hundreds of brands past the million-dollar mark. Many even hitting 10 million and beyond. But what makes Matthew's story powerful isn't just his success. It's that he's what he's overcome to get there. From early failures to industry shifts that could have taken him out, he kept adapting, rebuilding, and finding new ways to win. Today he's not just a business builder, he's a mentor, speaker, and the driving force behind BGS Live, one of the largest e-commerce events in North America. Matthew, I am so excited to have you on Shine on Success. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Great. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

So I always like to start with this one question that I love is what is the one thing you would like people to know about you that's not in your bio?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

That's a great question. What's the one thing that uh probably the most fulfilling thing that I do is helping other people solve their problems and grow their businesses. I've done it with my own, but it's a lot more fulfilling to take young entrepreneurs and take the 30 plus years of experience and watch them do it way quicker.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Yeah, that is really cool. And I feel think about all my years of being in business. I have more than 30 now. So it is really awesome to help other people and they are so excited for success.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, I think that that's what I would really like to be remembered for is that I taught people how to do it in less time with less speed bumps.

A Partnership Split And A Reset

SPEAKER_02 1:47

I love that. So every successful person that I've interviewed has faced adversity at some point. What's a challenge or defining moment in your journey that truly tested you? And how did you push through it?

Systems Over Heroics

Life Tests And Business Continuity

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Well, I've had a couple of them. And and I really think in general, most business owners have. Like it's not easy. There's always challenges. I tell, you know, the people that I start working with that business is the ultimate inner game and it's always going to show you where you're not good enough, where someone else is doing better, where you need to step up and improve. And so um I had an experience, it's almost been four years ago now, where I had a partner in BGS and we decided to part ways. And what I realized from that whole experience was I was very good at working hard and figuring out problems, but I was not good at being a good business owner. And what I mean by that is so much of the daily things depended on me. So when I was struggling, the business would struggle instead of having systems and processes in place so that when we go through our inevitable challenges, that the business still remains healthy and thriving. And so, yeah, the last three, four years have taught me how to be a much better business person instead of just a hard worker.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Yeah, I feel I I parallel that because six months ago my husband had a liver transplant. And had I not had systems and processes in place for our company, had this been three years ago or two years ago, I don't know if we would have survived it because I literally didn't go to work for four and a half months. I never stepped foot in the door. I worked at home when I could, but most of it was caretaking and it was really difficult. But you're right. If I hadn't known that, because I've made so many mistakes being an entrepreneur, right? So I I love that we share that because I think that's a place that most entrepreneurs will travel down that road for sure.

Coachability As A Growth Lever

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah, and and really that's where the wisdom comes from. Like we're all trying to figure it out. The thing is, like life changes every day. So if someone comes to you and says, hey, I've got it all figured out, this is your solution to everything, I would say turn around and run. Because the truth of the matter is what you really want is someone to figure it out alongside of you, or if someone that's a few steps ahead of you that's already had the pitfalls and roadblocks that can prevent you from having to go through them.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah, that makes sense. So I know just in reading that you've helped countless e-commerce owners scale to seven and eight figures. What's the difference between those who make it and those who don't?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

A couple things. I would say one, they're coachable. People that hire us, it's funny how many times they'll hire us because they have a problem and then we share with them the solution and they want to change what the solution is. And I'm like, it's hard for me to wrap my head around you wanting us to get you our results, but still make your decisions in order to get there. And so really being coachable and understanding that the wisdom comes from being willing to look at things from a different perspective.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah, that makes sense. I was on the call earlier today and they were talking about just follow the model. We've been successful. So don't think that you not knowing are gonna be able to do it differently and it's gonna be successful because we have the plan. Yeah. That's kind of what you're saying, right? Like if you have the perfect plan, and then here I am coming along thinking, well, I'm gonna change it because I really don't like that, or I don't want to do that. Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

We can't expect the same results that you get with the plan for sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

So tell me about resilience and and how do you push through the adversity when it comes your way? Because as we know, it does come. It what do you do? Is there a special thing you do, or is there a way you actually pick up the pieces and get back up?

From Concrete To E‑Commerce

SPEAKER_01 5:33

For me, it it is that I have a very structured daily ritual that I go through. And one of them is exercise. Every every type of situation that you're going through that's a struggle is really, I just view it as friction. And so you're always looking at ways to be able to deal with that and stay emotionally regulated so that you make good decisions. And one way to do that is to purposely create friction in your life every day. Go get up early and go work out or journal or meditate. Do it, do the things that help you build the resilience so that when these things happen, it doesn't uh stop your momentum, but you can go, oh yeah, this is just like what I do daily. So it's not gonna stop me and then just keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

So you've built businesses in multiple industries. If you had to look back and think this one is my favorite, which one is it and why?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Definitely e-commerce. Before I did e-commerce, I had a commercial concrete business for 23 years. And I traveled around the country and lived on the road about 200 days a year. We're part and distribution centers and big box stores and things like that. And I loved it. It was good physical work. And and the cool thing is I can drive by places that I built, you know, 20 years ago and they're still there. And that's really cool to see. But the e-commerce has allowed me to build much better relationships and work from home. We have a team that's all the way across, you know, we're in 13 different time zones. So I've been able to travel and visit our team and do all that. So I would say for sure, for me, the scalability and the I mean, it's mentally challenging, but it's not hard work. I really enjoy figuring out the problems, looking at the data and analytics and helping people scale their businesses.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

One of our close friends has a concrete company and he also lost his leg about eight years ago. And he's out there pulling his hoses and doing that. Um and I don't know how he does it, but it's impressive. And he works really hard. So that is a huge difference, that physical work to the mental work. I mean, they're both hard in their own way.

The Reality Of Mental Versus Physical Work

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah. When when you go home and you pass out because of you you're physically exhausted, mental exhaustion can be a little more trying because you can lay in bed and just like really about things.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yeah. Yeah. I get that a lot. I love the idea of e-commerce. It's something that I have never figured out. And I I still sit here to this day thinking, why couldn't I figure something out where I could work from home making money while I'm sleeping? But instead, I, you know, I decided to build a real estate brokerage and it's it's definitely has its has its amazing days, but some days it is so hard. And the things that happen and the lawsuits and the people's attitudes, and it's a lot to deal with. So I don't know. Sometimes sitting behind the computer screen is the only way that I am stress free. So I wished I had met you a long time ago where I could say, help me do this, help me build something amazing. But heck, yeah, I'm looking forward to getting to know you better, anyways.

Choosing Problems You Want To Solve

SPEAKER_01 8:29

I I think we always we always look at other things and think that it's better. It has its ups and downs as well. And I think that goes back to the question you asked me previous about resilience. You developed resilience in the brokerage business, just like we've developed resilience in the e-commerce. I'm sure that uh there's things that once you got over here, you would look at and go, oh, what a this is terrible. And uh it's just if you think about it, what is business? It's it's a problem-solving all day long thing. You know, people wouldn't need us if they didn't have a problem. And so most of the time where business gets fun is when you learn how to determine which people think that you're a magic bullet and which people want to actually put in the work and do the thing. So if they're looking for you to save them, you'll be their savior, but then they'll also crucify you later on. And so the truth of the matter is figure out what you like and that you can get up excited about going to work for each day and uh just understand that there's gonna be good days and there's gonna be challenging days. And people always ask me, Well, how are you doing? And I say, I'm happy, I'm healthy, and I'm above the dirt. So everything else is a bonus.

From Backstage To Mainstage

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Yeah, for sure. You know, it's and I said this on a couple of podcasts where even at this point in my life, I'm 57 and I think, oh my gosh, what if this all ended tomorrow? What would I do? I'd be all right. I'd pick up the pieces and I'd do something else. I mean, I am very capable of redoing it all. I'm not afraid of it anymore. I used to be fearful of the stress, and now I am such a different person. I've been through so much in the last three years that I think, what's the worst thing that happened? It's not, you know, it's not the mafia coming at me. It's it's me out there redoing it, figuring it out. I am resilient and I can and I know that I've proved that to everyone in the last three years. My dad passed away two years ago. So I had he was one of my, oh God, I loved him so much. And you know, having him, my you know, my tough guy get so weak and and die. And then a year after that, we found out that Jason needed a transplant. So I'm like, holy cow, this is a lot. And then caretaking is it, I don't know if you've ever done it before. It is 10 times harder than I imagined. I don't have kids, so for me, it's a whole new thing. So I'm like, and if we can keep our business going at the same time, well, we're still we're still standing.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, so I think if you take that whole story that you just shared, and thank you for sharing that and think through it. Are you a much stronger, more resilient person now than before that happened?

Reframing Nerves Into Excitement

SPEAKER_02 11:04

100%. And not a more creative and I'm more I feel like I'm more understanding of things. I'm definitely calmer, I'm not as stressed. I don't worry about if I'm gonna, you know, if if the car gets in front of me, I'm not flipping them off anymore. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Right. And and so really there there is a gift in all of those so many trials and trials. And part of my morning practice is every morning and we do it as a company. Uh, we have a gratitude channel. And so we post something that we're grateful for in our personal life, something that we're grateful for at work, and then uh and then the third one is something that we're grateful as far as a quality that we have. And so it's uh been super powerful as a company to watch people's self-esteem and and grow and then the things that they share about what they appreciate at work. Uh they'll tag each other and give each other gratitude. And I think when you do that, you encourage other people to find the good things in the struggle.

Message To Grinders: Don’t Quit

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Yeah, I'm very aware of that light in the darkness. And I look at that so, so differently. And you know, I'm also because I'm 57, I really don't care what people think anymore. So there's that. You know, I mean, I don't want people to think bad about me, but if they do, they do because I'm a good person and I know who I am, you know. So a lot of lessons learned. I've proved that I can do things that some people probably didn't think I could, you know. When you when I say I was never a mom, it's I mean, I seriously never wanted kids. So to have this opportunity to take care of someone, which was so different for me, I think people were shocked that I was succeeded at it. But that goes back to the same thing burn the boats, right? If there's nobody there, I'm still gonna pick up the pizzas and keep carrying on because I don't I wouldn't want it any other way. I wouldn't want to be the person that doesn't get back up.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

So anyway, so let's talk about build, grow, scale. It's become a recognizable brand in your industry for sure. What was the turning point when you realized this was more than a company, that it was a mission?

SPEAKER_01 12:56

I never liked getting up on stage and speaking. In fact, uh early on, this is about 10 years ago, when we would do Zoom calls, um, I actually hated being on camera. So I would lean over to my partner and tell him what to say because I was the one that would do the work on the websites and he was the one that would educate people about it. And so, yeah, over time, learning how to speak in front of people and get up on stage and share stuff that made a difference. That literally was the turning point for me. Even though it was really hard and it's still, you know, there's a little bit of nerves when I do it, but not I would say less about me and more about making sure that I provide the value that I'm there to give them. And uh yeah, I really enjoy that. And that was for sure a turning point when I learned that uh the one-to-many gave us the ability to really help a lot of people.

The Hidden Story Blocking Success

SPEAKER_02 13:44

I'm the board of directors of the National Speakers Association here in Pittsburgh. And I have to tell you, I feel that like I the sweat that goes down my back when I'm when I have to talk is so great. And I think, what if I mess up? But then I think after that, I thought they don't even know what I was gonna say in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Right?

SPEAKER_01 14:03

So if I think is the the chemicals in our brain for nervousness and anxiety are the exact same chemicals uh in our brain for excitement. Really? The only difference is that uh when we're feeling nervous and anxious, uh, we're not breathing or we're shallow breathing. And so I learned to when I get anxious or nervous to just take some really deep breaths and realize that it's actually excitement, it's not nervousness. And that changes because it really is exactly the same chemicals being released into your brain, body.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

See, I never knew that. I'm gonna share that with some of my peers in this group because that makes a lot of sense. And if you look at it that way, it just changes the whole idea of it, right? So let's speak of let's talk about that. You've spoken on stages all over the world. What's the message you find yourself repeating to audiences who are still in the grind?

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Uh, don't give up. It is difficult, but the alternative is going to, you know, work at a job. And that's, you know, I have uh an acronym for just overbroke.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

And that's good.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

You know, and the truth of the matter is, you know, I love having a business and I can't even imagine um having someone else tell me what my schedule would be.

Community, Candor, And Blind Spots

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Me neither. Me neither. I try to have a couple of jobs right out of when I got out of art school, and I knew my dad was an entrepreneur too. He had a body shop, like I told you prior to. So I I always that's all I knew was the flexibility of that life. I didn't know about the money because my parents didn't have a lot. You know, we grew up in this little trailer court, and I there's three of us in one bedroom until I was 18. But I didn't know. I didn't know that was a bad thing until place called me trailer trash, and then I'm like, oh, I guess that's me. But you know what? I'm okay because look at me today. I'm no longer living in that trailer. And I'm not gonna ever. So there's that. But anyways, that being said, it it does it does make sense. And I know that you've you've mentored a lot of people, right? What's a mistake that you see over and over again that holds people back from true growth? Because I could have held myself back many times in in this process, right? I could go back to that trailer park and be like, I'm not good enough, I'm not gonna make it, you know, I shouldn't be here, which imposter syndrome happens to all of us. But tell me about what's one mistake you see that holds them back.

AI, Analytics, And The Next Wave

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah, and I'll use myself as an example. So for I've helped a lot of other people create extremely successful businesses. And for years, I did that for them, but not for myself. And it was because I didn't feel worthy or deserving of the success. And what I would say is that was an unhealthy story that I had developed growing up that was running my life on autopilot when I didn't wasn't aware of it. So probably the one thing that I would say makes the biggest difference is to discover the different unconscious stories that we have and shine a light on them because then we can actually reframe it in a way that's very powerful moving forward and helping other people be able to do that same thing uh has really shifted how successful we help the owners to be, because most business owners have the mentality, I'll be happy when. And like when they're successful or when they have the business or when they have, you know, financial freedom. And the truth of the matter is most of them will never get it with that mentality. It's being happy on the journey instead of I'll be happy when.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Summer was talking about that, like it was like cooking holiday dinner. It takes all day, weeks to prepare. You get all there, then you get that sit down and the dinner's over, right? It's but the preparation is fun. You get through it, you do all of that stuff. And it's kind of a silly analogy, but it it kind of works in people's minds. If you think about that and all the time you put in and you do enjoy it, you'd enjoy the whole thing, and then all of a sudden it's over. And it doesn't it wasn't right. Well, you just said the same exact thing, just differently.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

So community is a powerful theme in your work. How has surrounding yourself with the right people changed your own path?

Creativity Supercharged By AI

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I think that uh having other people that expect a lot of themselves and are very disciplined has helped me clean up some of the habits in my own life. So for sure, having uh what I would call as a true friend, someone who can have the tough conversation and tell you, you know, where you're not showing up or where maybe you could improve. And some people think like, oh, I could never say that or I'd never do that. I prefer to have people around me that do that because we all have blind spots and they're called blind spots for a reason because we can't see them, but other people can. And so having people around you that care enough to have a hard conversation is amazing and it makes all the difference in the world because a lot of times we can't see it on our own and we need that mirror.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

So good. So what's next for you and build grow scale?

Fitness, Longevity, And Quality Of Life

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Well, uh, I would say with a huge wave of AI and how it's changing everything for us, we're very data and analytics driven. So we look at websites and optimize them so that people make more sales and being able to use AI to analyze the data. Um, because there's, I mean, mounds and mounds and mounds of it. And when we did it manually, we were good at it. But now that we're using AI and really experimenting with tools all the time, I see our business will radically shift or it's it already has over the last 24 months. I believe it'll do that much again in the next 24 months. And so we're constantly looking for ways that we can use tools to make each of our employees or our team members more efficient, not to get more out of them, but so that if they can get 80% of their work done with 20% of the effort, they have a lot more bandwidth to be happy, healthy, and to look at things from a fresh perspective. And so that's really what we're working on right now. And it's been very fun. We actually even did like the AI Olympics inside of our company and had everybody bring tools that they could use to make their job better. And so it's been very fun adopting that and finding ways to get our team members to adopt it too, so that they they literally can get more done in less time.

Connect With Matthew And Final Takeaway

SPEAKER_02 20:08

It's a great tool, AI. It's amazing the time that I've saved and things that I could create faster. And you know, I look at it and think, what do we do without it? And how to know all that information. There's so much. There's there's nothing that you can't ask for that it can't it doesn't find.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, I think they said in the next five years, all the information that we've ever recorded will be doubled. And so you already can't go through all that information and make good decisions from it. So learning how to use it, I actually think that learning how to learn would be a new skill. And using AI in order to learn things that are relevant to you so that you can add skills to your already existing ones will make you a much more uh multifaceted.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yeah, there's some things that I I as a tech person that that I'm not good at, right? But I am really good at the creative side. So I took AI and made my creativity my superpower. Like I am so much more creative. Like I have ideas in the middle of the night, and I'll wake up and I'll just hit chat and I'll be like, I can have this idea. Or I'll go and it's amazing the output that comes out. It's exactly what I'm thinking. It just sounds more like I would want it to sound like me. It just blows my mind. And the first day I ever was introduced to it, I couldn't stop.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Like I was like, Yeah, I can't imagine where it will be as fast as it's growing right now, where it'll be in the next two years.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah, I can't either. It's growing so fast and so Sora, that's that's just unbelievable. But there's lots of mountains to climb when you're an entrepreneur, and I know that we we go through it, and living this life is amazing and it's hard. But I want to ask you something about your personal life. What is something else you like to do outside of work?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

I love fitness and exercise. So that's something that I really got into. I'm in my mid 50s now and probably in the best shape of my life. So I really enjoy, I'm learned a lot about the nutrition and supplementation. I think quality of life comes from being physically fit. And when I was younger, I cared more about muscles. And I think that that was good for self-esteem. But I think being physically fit and eating healthy builds quality of life. So it's something that I definitely pursue every day.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Do you like to go on vacations? Do you like to do anything fun?

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Um, I do. I like to travel, but uh for me, anything longer than seven days, I get pretty ready to get back after it. So I actually get up excited to go to work every day. I I really enjoy it. And you know, I have the freedom to work on the things that I enjoy, so it doesn't really feel that much of a struggle.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

So I know that your story is it's not just about scaling brands, it's about perseverance, adaptability, and never letting adity have the final words. So if people want to connect with you or learn more about what you're doing, where can they find you online?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah, buildgrowthscale.com is all about what we do with the website. And my email is Matt at buildgrowthscale.com. So happy to uh if you if you think that uh you know optimizing your website wouldn't work for you, then I'd be happy to jump on a call and and see if I could provide some value and see if it would be a good fit.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

So is there one thing you want to leave our listeners with today?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah, do the work between the six inches between your ears, do the work on the six inches between your ears because that will make everything else that you do a lot more enjoyable and a lot more fun.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yes, you're 100% correct. Thank you so much for being here with me today. And for all of you, please like, share, and subscribe this episode because if you know if we can affect just one person, this podcast is a success. Thank you, Matt.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Thanks for having me.