From the Hoover VP Classroom to ESPN: Elizabeth Lebowitz on Producinbg Sports Broadcasts

In this episode of the ZoomPod, ESPN Coordinating Producer Elizabeth Lebowitz stops by to talk about her journey from high school media and college media star to ESPN intern to Coordinating the network's College and Pro basketball coverage. HINT: Communication is the key!

EXPLORE MORE:

Check out our other great ZWOF podcast Episodes!

Grab my new Mastering Composition eBook!

Link and follow for more great #learnphotography content:

IG: @tvcommandomedia | FB @ZoomWithOurFeet 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Making sure that at the end of the day, whatever I have planned logistically is communicated, understood, visually seen in whatever format each person needs it, so everybody is on the same page the entire season, is more important than keeping up with the paperwork and that sort of stuff.

TMac 0:39

We're continuing our homage to Women's History Month and featuring successful women in media production. On this episode of the Zoom pod, Elizabeth Levelowitz joins me to talk about her journey from high school and college media to intern at ESPN and to her current gig as coordinating producer of the network's basketball coverage. Hello and welcome to the Zoom Photography Podcast, the pod about learning creative media production. With me, your host, T Mack, a professional photographer, videographer, and teacher. Our guest speaker is in the photo lab. Let's talk to a pro. Elizabeth Lewowitz. Pleasure to have you on the Zoom with Our Feet podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a while.

TMac 1:39

Yes, it has. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah.

TMac 1:42

Let's start at the beginning. How did your broadcast journey start?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yeah, um, it started young, I feel like, for a lot of people in the industry. Um uh as you know, I went to Hoover High School and started in the TV program there um as a sophomore. So I yeah, took the journalism class that you had to take to get in it. I don't know if that's still a thing, but took that freshman year, um, started in the TV program as a sophomore. I sort of always knew I wanted to be in sports television in some capacity. Um so started as a sophomore. Uh junior year was like the lead of the broadcast side. Senior year, um picking a college was harder than anything else because the program we have is so good. Um, that was really challenging. Um, you had left us by that point, which was sort of rude of you. Um, but it was fine. So yeah, graduated and then went to Cincinnati, and that was a fail. And uh ran into you at a Chick-fil-A in North Canton, Ohio, uh, on my Cincinnati spring break. And you're like, how are things going? I was like, they stink. And you said, come tour Ashland, you can do whatever you want, and I did, and you did, and then I did, and uh transferred my spring semester of my sophomore year of college. So sophomore year and sophomore year were two big uh moments in my life to start the TV track.

TMac 3:29

So so you make the switch. So what was your goal coming to Ashland?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

At the time, it was just to get my hands back involved in the actual content creation. Um, at Cincinnati at the time, they had teased everybody with, well, we're gonna have this like fully converged program. Um, because they were like a lot of universities. They had the people who wanted to be on TV, they were in the it actually was like the arts program at Cincinnati, and then they had the straight journalism track, more for print. Um, but there wasn't really shoot your own stuff, write your own stuff, put together the video. It was print or be on camera. Um, and I was there for a year and it just like it clearly wasn't happening. Um, so when I went to Ashland, it was I wanted to be able to use a camera again, write my own stuff, um, sort of get in my elbows, like elbows deep into the creative side. Um, and I think I started doing that right away. Like my earliest memory of Ashland is um drive, I forget where we where I had to drive to, but we used John Scrata's truck and shot a high school basketball game. And I was back running camera and you know, wrapping chords and doing all the hands-on stuff that I hadn't gotten to do since a year and a half prior um in high school. So it was great to get myself back in that groove. And then from there, you weren't kidding, when it was like, whatever you want to do, like we'll figure it out. Um and we did. I mean, we had a great group at Ashland. There were a lot of us that did a lot of basketball games, a lot of various stories around campus. Um, so it was just nice to be in that environment. I think I spent more time in the basement of that JDM building than anywhere else in college, um, which I think spoke a lot to the program.

TMac 5:49

When so now you're uh so now you're big girl on campus and you're getting ready to graduate. Um what was the plan?

SPEAKER_02 6:02

So the plan was always ESPN. Um, and I had a great leader in this guy named T Mac, you may have heard of him, I'm not entirely sure, but he was like, if that's your goal, like we will make it happen. Um, we will do all the right things, like you just gotta put in the work. So I put in a lot of hours and I put in a lot of work. Um, and you connected me with um somebody, something Warren. I can't remember his first name at STO at the time, Sports Time Ohio.

TMac 6:37

Steve Warren.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yep. And uh so I met with him and then I interned with um Sports Time Ohio before they became Fox Cleveland or Fox Ohio, whatever they were at the time, and um was on a few different shows. Um, I would run the Panini Cam when that was still a thing um for at the time Indians baseball games. Um, someone's gonna comment on this and say, you can't say that. Um, but the it was this little camera on the top of a foul ball pole that they would run ads off of um coming out of breaks or going into a break. Um and it was all robotics, so it was backwards, which confused the bee jeezys out of me. Um got to do a little bit of graphics there. Um then I was on a late night show that quickly got canceled. Um, but I got to help them cut highlights and answer phones from fans. Um, I went to spring training day with the Browns, um, did a little TVU shoot. So went to a golf event for I think the Indians at the time, shot B-roll, like really fully hands-on, was driving back and forth to Ashland, um, which is I think where my caffeine habit began because I was still taking a full classload and like driving up to Cleveland a few times a week in the middle of the night after baseball games and back and forth. Um, and from there, I went from an intern to a uh part-time summer uh PA.

TMac 8:22

That's right. You got a job there.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I worked, um, so would go from North Canton up to Cleveland a few times a week. And the gig was still the same, doing a lot of the same stuff. And then uh went back to school in the fall, and we said, okay, I think we've got enough, we being you and I, enough to apply to this ESPN internship. Um, should backtrack and say that I applied as a junior and they liked my knowledge, but they I didn't have like the hands-on experience it anywhere else other than like our college area station projects. So um they were like, come back to us when you have more stuff. So that's what I did. Um, and I actually applied for two internships because I wasn't really sure when I graduated what I wanted to do. Like I wasn't sure if I wanted to go like the ops direction with more of like directing, shooting, editing, or if I wanted to go the more broadcast route, doing the highlights, writing the pieces, yada yada. Um, so I interviewed for both. I will never forget my interview for the operations internship. It was the most terrifying thing to this day of my like it was the guy on the phone was terrifying. He was asking questions at a rate that my brain could not process. And I was like, this is not, I was this is not meant for me. Like, the more he got into it, I was like, this ain't this is not right, this is not gonna go well.

TMac 10:05

Um, but that was your first, that was your first test.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

It was my first, it was my first test, and it was, I think, my first look into like really on a bigger scale, the difference between like the operations and what people think of as sports journalism, right? So I quickly realized operations was not for me. And it was at that moment that I said to you and to John Scrata, I'm no longer TDing ever again. Um, and I quickly was like, I don't want to edit, I don't want to do any of this stuff that we had to do uh to graduate because I was like, I don't want to do this in the like in the industry, like I know the basics. That's all I'm gonna need to know. Um and yeah, then I interviewed for the production internship, and that uh went much easier than the operations side of things. Um, it was actually sort of cool. You you interview, you do a phone interview, then I had to do a few different like homework projects. So I had to critique a an ESPN show. Um then I had to pick any sporting event, watch the event, and then create my own highlight, not with a video, but just like describe to them what I would take, what I wouldn't take. Um, and then we had like a sports knowledge unofficial test, um, which that was like the easiest part. Um, trying to figure out which show to critique was difficult. Um, especially in college, because it's like, okay, well, which which show do I know the best versus which one do I actually have time to sit down and watch? What day of the week after a game like is gonna make the most sense so it looks good. Um the game I picked was Derek Rose's first game back with the Bulls in I forget however long, but he hit a game winner from three in the corner. And I was like, wow, that's very lucky. So like it made my it made my homework assignment um pretty easy from there. And uh yeah, the internship started the end of January 2014, went to April, and I came back and graduated in April and started full-time at ESPN in July of 2014.

TMac 12:46

What do you think? What did the internship prepare you, or how did the internship prepare you for um the first position, which was what?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

So my first position was a production assistant um in a unit called the Raps Unit. Um, it is when I when they they call it Rookie Camp. So I showed up to Rookie Camp and I was like, okay, what am I doing? Like what group am I in? They're like, you're in wraps. And I was like, I'm in what? Like I was just at this place for like however many months, three months, four months, and I had no idea what they were talking about, which is a little intimidating because you're like, is this good? Is it or is it really bad? Like which direction is are we going here? Um but to sort of go backwards, because I was an intern, I had done, I'd been trained in, I mean, I already knew how to do it, but their version of um cutting VOs, listening to sound, logging games, logging sound, you know, all of the sort of the basics that you have to do in the industry once you're part of it full-time. Um, prompting, printing scripts, sorting scripts, um, story ideas, production meetings, like really when you're an intern, people don't know that you're an intern. Like it's more a full-time job. You're you're scheduled to work 40 hours a week as an intern. Um, which, silly me, I was like, oh, that's that's great. Didn't take into account that like it's not really 40 hours. Like, nothing in TV is ever just 40 hours a week. Um, and I was taking a full classload at the time because I didn't want to have to wait to graduate. So I didn't do the internship and then delay graduation. The internship was however many credits a college class is three or something. Um, I did an independent study and I did a remote online world religion class with and something else. So like I was taking a full class load and doing the internship, which was a lot. It was a lot.

TMac 15:09

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah, it was crazy. And I would take my backpack to work and sit in the cafeteria, like either before work or after work, and like do my homework and do my papers. No one knew that I was doing homework, like they just thought I was like there, yeah, you know, doing work. Um perfect cover. Yeah, I was in a way, but people don't really treat you like an intern because no one knows, like the the turnover of new employees and people fresh out of college is so high that they just think you're a new hire and you're there and they treat you just like every other new hire. And so when I left in April and then came back in July, there were a lot of people that said, Well, where'd you go? Like, did you change? Did you get different assignments and now you're back? I was like, No, I graduated college. Like I went home to graduate, and I kind of had to go back. Yeah, I had to go back, pack up my life, and then um move here. So I've been here 10 years.

TMac 16:18

So the so that program was for folks that had already experienced the entry level at ESPN?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

So there were a lot of us that had interned in some capacity that had been hired. Um, my higher group started with, I want to say there were more than 10 of us, which was a pretty large group at the time. And we had all interned at some point. I think there might have been maybe three that weren't ever interns, but they came from the college sports space. So they were like, we had a Stanford football player, we had someone who actually played professional football in our group and came and was a PA. Um, we had someone who played college basketball and like did the D2 or level. So like, but most of most of us had interned at some level. There, that's not as common now. Um, now it's a little easier to get in. I shouldn't say easier to get in. It is the things have sort of widened, I should say. So they'll take a little bit more of that just college experience versus, well, you need X amount of internships at local places before us. Um a lot of it is the way that the industry has changed. Like kids are cutting video and shooting things on their phone that I wouldn't have even thought about, you know, 10 years ago. Um, and I still am sort of like, you're doing what? How? Like I feel a little old, um, to be to be honest, because I did leave the like content side of the world. So I haven't I just haven't done it in a while.

TMac 18:13

So from that higher group, how long was that first level? Yeah, and then do you bid on a show? Do you do they cook you for a while and ding, you're done, and now we're gonna assign you there? How is the first gig arrived at?

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Yeah, so like I said, I got put in a group called Raps, which for anybody that watches um college football or college basketball Saturdays, that is like the RAPs group. So say you're watching ESPN, and all of a sudden they're the game folks say, Hey, we're gonna toss to the studio to get a check-in on whatever game on whatever network. And so that's the raps group. So I sat in a room and it's super fast paced because you're in a room and there's our game on ESPN, and then every other possible game that is on any network is on in front of you, like up to like 16 TVs, and you're watching all of them at the same time, trying to figure out what plays you think are appropriate for a cut-in. Can you sell them? Can you cut them fast enough to give to your one play operator to put into 25 or 26 to get rolled or not? And then we do the halftime shows with all of that too.

TMac 19:47

And what were you cutting on?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

So it is similar to avid, um, but it is uh Q cut, it's called remote Q cut.

TMac 19:58

Yeah, timeline, source, yeah. It's all the same.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

I mean, it's all in, out, space, you know, it's it was it was avid, but it wasn't avid. Like all of it was the same. Um, you know, audio levels three, four.

TMac 20:17

And that position was called what?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Production assistant.

TMac 20:21

So you were a PA.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Yeah, you started as a PA, and then the program at the time, it's since changed over three or four times, um, just to try to improve it and maximize everybody's ability and whatnot. Um, but at the time it was called the CAP program, and you had about two years to go from PA to CA. And if you didn't, then you were booted from the program. If once you made CA, then you had, I forget the X amount of years to go from CA to something else. But there was like a cap in the program. Um, I think that it might have been three to go from CA to AP, which is typically like the straight shot, right? It's production assistant, content associate, associate producer, segment producer, line producer, is like the traditional uh track pathway.

TMac 21:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah. Um I think the whole program, the cat program, was supposed to be five, so that would have been three years to go from CA to if you maxed out on the two. So I got promoted PA to C A. I want to say around a year. And um that was frustrating because there was a person who like all they did was prompt for eight months and got promoted. And I was like, what? The workload is not really comparable. Like, what are we doing? Um, but it was like a good reality smack of this is how this is just how things operate in the real world. Um and didn't make it any harder, any easier to swallow, but it's life.

TMac 22:19

So what so PA was what you described kind of a commodity pit and monitors and looking for uh moments.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Yeah, and I mean PAs could be anywhere. You could be cutting highlights for SportsCenter, you could be on NFL Live, you could be you know all over the place, but the workload is lighter. You're not cutting the bigger pieces, you're cutting VOs, sound bites, logging a lot of things. Yeah, grunt work.

TMac 22:52

So content associate is a little more higher level.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yeah, that was when I sort of was able to. So content associate, I that's when I started getting bounced around a good amount. I was in wraps for a good, I went through a football season, a basketball season, a little league world series, and then started on WMBA or I forget what it was through the summer. Um and I got promoted, and then I got moved to college football event, which a lot of people at ESPN, that's what they want to do because they're working on the games, there's an opportunity to travel if you stay in the group long enough. I didn't really want to do college football event, and I told them as such, I was like, I don't really want to be in this dog fight. Like, leave me out of it. I'm happy staying in studio. I like studio, I like being a part of the collective group and like coming together for ideas and that sort of stuff. Whereas event, it's you're a little more independent, you're working on your own, you're on your own with an editor. Um, and it just wasn't really my cup of tea.

TMac 24:14

It's also a gypsy life.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Yeah, and it, you know, I was new to the group, my producer lived in Texas, so like I'd be in an edit and I'd have to, you'd have to wait, download the link, send it to him, wait for feedback. Like you're just losing a lot of time, which for me was super frustrating. And um, I was like, can I just go back to studio? So from there I went to college basketball game day, which was awesome. You know, I got to travel some, be in the truck, do graphics, do higher-end pieces, you know, opens, teases, those sort of longer bits. Um, the stuff that everyone watches before a show starts, and like, ooh, that's cool.

TMac 24:58

Um opens are a blast.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah. I mean, it was great. And I was back in studio and I was, you know, happy, happy. Then game day ended, and they didn't really know where to put me at that point. They were like, do we put you back in raps? Do we put you somewhere else? Like, what group do you want to be in? And I was like, I don't really care what group you put me in, but I've already done raps. Like, I just feel like I don't know how much more I can learn there. They put me back there anyway. And I was doing graphics for a long time. Um, running Viz, doing lower thirds, topic bars, all sorts of stuff. So less video and learning more about a different side of the production. Um, at that point was in the control room, which was great because you're getting to hear the director, the producer, the AD, the T D, like the coordinating producer, counting, making sure we're hitting all the ads and you know, all the pieces that go into a production as a whole, rather than just sitting in a room and paying attention to, well, that was a cool catch, or how can we break down that play?

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

So sort of piecing it together um as a as a whole. And then at some point I just sort of realized I think from there I went to train the new hires and train some of the interns. And oh wow, I enjoyed it, but I was like, I just feel like I'm not doing like the thing anymore. Like I sort of lost track of like what I really wanted to do. You go to a place like ESPN and it's so big, like there's so many opportunities. What did I want? And I didn't really know what I wanted. I knew going from CA to AP at the time was going to be almost impossible because really at the time, unless you were working on the Knight Sports Centers, cutting like the top two or three highlights, unless you were like that guy or gal, mostly men, um, you weren't getting promoted because your name wasn't being brought up with the right people. So I was like, uh maybe I need to start thinking about veering off of this like linear path and looking at the company as a whole.

TMac 27:34

What year was this in?

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Ish. So I'm gonna say late 2016, because I spent a lot of 2017 shadowing and um meeting other people from other departments and working with the production coordinators and figuring out like, does this work for me? Does this not work for me? What other groups can I sort of shadow and figure out? And then I made the switch in 2018, so late 2016, I think, is when I sort of was like, I don't know, something's gotta give somewhere, take a step back, figure things out.

TMac 28:19

So then the next level is uh so you were a content associate at the time, correct?

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yeah.

TMac 28:26

How did this opportunity that you have now come about? You know, what's interesting is a lot of people might not make it through that low. Did you think about is this even right for me?

SPEAKER_02 28:41

I did. I mean, we had we being me and my parents, had a lot of discussions because there was a time, you know, I, as you know, my dad was uh sick a lot. And um I, when I was in wraps and I was in some of those other groups, I was able to go home like once every three months um because they weren't able to come to me. So I would come home, be home for like a long weekend, come back to Connecticut. Um, and there was a period of time I might have been working on scam, the Sports Center AM unit, which I'm not a morning person anyway. Like, I don't know anybody in TV who truly is a morning person, but like there's TV on ESPN at all hours of the day. So when I got moved to Scam, I think that might have been my last straw because I was like, this is a joke. Like, I'm waking up at 2:30 to be in by 3 because the show starts at 7 and goes until 10, and then on the weekend sometimes it went until noon. So, like, just not, I mean, I'm in my mid-20s. My off days are like Tuesday, Wednesday, and you're asking me to get up at 2:30 when most people are like in their mid-20s or coming home at 2 30. I'm living in Connecticut, I'm living by myself, like just there was a lot of factors that I was like, this stinks, like this is not fun, and I've been like dedicated and I've done all the right stuff and I've talked to all the right people, and you know, what the heck am I doing? Um, and in that period, because this the Sports Center AM group is so small, I didn't get to go home for like six months. And that really killed me. I was like, this is not I can't do, I can't do this. Like, I can't be in a group where I can't go home for like a day or two to see my dad who can't come to see me. Like, I gotta figure something out. So there was a period of time where I was like, maybe I could just come home, which my dad, of course, was all for. He was like, You've done it, you've said you've worked there, like come back, like work back at Fox or you know, apply with the Cavs or some team or whatever. I was like, no, I'm gonna like I'm gonna figure it out. Um and I did, it just took me a while.

TMac 31:13

Um and what was the break?

SPEAKER_02 31:16

So the break, there were a lot of breaks after the break and then before the break because I hit my breaking point of like I definitely don't want to be in this group anymore. Then once I figured out, okay, I think being a production coordinator is would be a great fit for me. It's not like PA to CA where it's like a merit promotion. I had to wait for an opening, an opening. The first opening was based in Charlotte. So I applied and I interviewed, and it got down to me and someone who was already based in Charlotte. So I didn't get it. And then I uh yeah, we're getting close to so we're through 2017 at that point. They're getting they're gearing up for a bunch of changes and launching ESPN Plus. So there were like two or three different, there were two production coordination jobs that opened. So I applied, but like so did 15 bazillion other people. And because it's a role that when you're in studio, the knowledge translates really well into like what we do. So I was not the only one that had this genius idea, and I got the call on my birthday in 2018. My mom and I were actually at a Downton Abbey exhibit in New York City, and I got the call that I didn't get it. And I was like, yeah, exactly. I was like, dang it, like what the heck? But it it was a weird rejection call because she said, you didn't get it, but we want you to come in and meet with someone who was not on my interview panel next week. Sit down with them, um, and then we'll sort of see like what the future holds.

TMac 33:21

I was like, this is that's kind of coded language.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

It was super industry-coded, suspicious. Like, what the heck is going on? Um, and that was, you know, keep in mind I hadn't really interviewed since I was an intern because I didn't have to interview to be an go from intern to full-time. My internship was my interview, so I hadn't interviewed since I was in college. So that was overwhelming. Then I got the rejections. I was like, this is just I'm never like I'm screwed. Pack me up, move me home. So I met with that guy the next week, and basically they were launching ESPN Plus, and they needed a PC for the ESPN Plus role, but that guy wasn't in on the interview panel and wanted to meet with me before they hired me specifically for that job. So I went from not having I got rejected twice to like an unofficial interview to production coordinator.

TMac 34:28

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

It was a very weird process.

TMac 34:32

Okay. But we made it.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

We got we got out of studio.

TMac 34:35

Yeah, man. So production coordinator next level up.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

So it's technically a it was technically a lateral move within the company. Um, there was a pay raise, and for me, it was less about the promotion at that point, and it was more about a lot of the lifestyle that came with it. Again, off days, Tuesday, Wednesday, working crazy freaking hours. When you're a PC, it is more Monday through Friday. It's seasonal. You get the company holidays, like there's just a little bit more consistency.

TMac 35:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

I say that to say it depends on the sport that you're on, but like you know what your season is gonna look like because you're either on a show, a sport group, like there's you're not getting bounced around from show to show.

TMac 35:29

No, it's regular, it starts, there's games, and it ends.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Correct, correct. So that was a lot of it for me, was just getting myself in a better place to live my life. Um you know, I was how old was I at 2018, 26? So I was, you know, not old by any means, but like, you know, I wasn't 22 anymore, like just running around with no plan. Um, I sort of wanted to to figure things out and get to enjoy where I lived, because when you're in Connecticut and in central Connecticut, I should say, working those hours, like it's hard to have any life outside of the ESPN bubble. So it was a lateral move on paper, but it felt like a promotion everywhere else.

TMac 36:24

Does it involve travel?

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Yeah, some yes, some no. So mine again, weird. Most PCs they come in. Okay, you're assigned to NFL. And then they'll put you either on the game side or the studio side, and um, from there, it can depend on how many people you're working with if you travel or not travel. It can depend on the time of year, like all sorts of stuff. I got assigned to ESPN Plus, as I said, but when ESPN Plus launched, it was like fantasy football. There was a fantasy football show and MMA. And I shocker being from Ohio, MMA was not really a thing that like anybody followed. We were football people and basketball people, like that's where and I played lacrosse, like that's where my knowledge that was my lane. Then I get put on MMA and I'm like, cool. It was actually super refreshing because I'd been so involved in just watching sports non-stop that like I would truly come home from work and not want to watch sports.

TMac 37:39

Good point.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

So I got put on this sport that I really didn't know anything about, wasn't tied to at all. So I sort of got that love back for actually paying attention to the sports world. Um, and it was great. MMA started, and I actually didn't travel for the first time until September of 2018 because I got the job in April. Then my dad got really sick. He passed June 30th, and then I had to come back to work. So I got trained, had to come home, like had this hiatus of not working, yeah, and they were great about it, every, you know, fine, but like then you come back and you're starting a whole new job. Like everything sort of flipped on its. I bought a condo, I started a new job, like it was like truly like this next chapter sort of opening up. And I went MMA for people that don't know, there's a pay-per-view every month. So I was on the road once a month. Um, but we were a freaking mess because the group was brand new. Like MMA to ESPN was new, new-ish. Like they they cover like some of the bigger McGregor stuff back when, but to have like its own unit was new, and I was new as a PC. So I'm figuring it out because there wasn't a PC with me. Like, it's not like they took a vet and said, here, like you guys tackle this together. Nope. I was just on my own little island. Uh, there were like five of us trying to figure out how to make television from these MMA arenas. So yeah, I went, uh, I was on the road every month with UFC and all over domestically, did Australia twice, Brazil once, Canada a few times. So it was awesome. Like I got to do all sorts of traveling on, you know, not my dime, which was great. A lot of experiences. Um, and because the group was so small, I still was able to sort of contribute creatively when we were on the road, because there was only like four of us. It was TVU in Australia. We were pulling Ethernet lines out of the ceiling of the arena because we didn't have a truck. Like ESPN does just as a surrounding content, they don't actually put on the pay-per-view itself. So we're not tied to a truck, we're doing everything via TVU and flip phones, you know, running around towns, shooting B-roll. But my role changed in that when we started traveling as a production coordinator, I went from thinking about story ideas to who all is going? Are they credentialed?

TMac 40:45

Logistics.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Do we have security? How are we getting there? Who needs cars? Like all the things that actually get everybody there and get the television on TV. Like, do we have enough cameramen? Do we have an audio guy? Like, all of it was now on me. Which, when you travel internationally, getting a whole group of people to put visas together in the right order and on time was a lot. So yeah, it was UFC was a whirlwind for the first year. Um, but I grew to love it, and we were a super close-knit group, and I was on UFC until August of 2022.

TMac 41:29

What a great learning experience.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, I mean, it's great.

TMac 41:35

So did you want to move? It doesn't sound like you would want to move off. Was an offer made to go to basketball? How did that come about?

SPEAKER_02 41:46

I had done the UFC for what would that have been, four years. And when I got hired as a PC, everyone said, your first year, you're gonna feel like you have no idea what you're doing and you're really bad at your job. The second year, you're gonna feel like you've got it, things are down. By year three, you're gonna own it and be ready to sort of take on either new or more stuff. All true. All very, very, very true. Um year two, I was like, this is great. I got it. I don't need, I'm not going to people all the time to answer my questions. People are actually coming to me for things, which was great. Um, and then year three, I was like, okay, now I sort of feel like I feel like I could, I feel like I'm not growing the sport as much as a production coordinator as I could be, because I'm not learning from anybody else. Like I'm figuring it all out on my own rather than being able to shadow a bigger sport or work with someone on a bigger sport to see how they do things and see how I could get the UFC to sort of grow in that right direction. Um, and that's what I kept saying to the leaders. Like, I just feel like I need to, it's not that I need training, I just need to see how other people do it. Like, we're still sort of I'm creating and coming up with as many effective ways to do things as I can, but like I'm only one brain. And a lot of what the logistics planning is and effectiveness and cost savings and all of the things that go into the job, until you see another group do it who's super successful and a main company priority, you just don't know what you don't know.

TMac 43:40

And that would be basketball.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Well, yes, but there's there's an irony there. So I got put on wrestling, which they tried to tell me was like to fill that gap. It didn't fill the gap, it didn't fill the gap at all. It was great, like it was. Super cool to be, you know, wrestling ties in a little bit with like the MMA world. So like some of the same pace, some of the same people. Um, but again, MMA is every month. So like to put me on another project was really difficult because I was gone, I was gone. I'd get home from an event, you'd do the cleanup paperwork from an event, and then you'd be prepping for the next thing. So there wasn't really a space to put me anywhere. And I had sort of given up at that point. Like I was like, okay, you know what? I'm just gonna accept it. Like, I'm gonna try as much as I can, learn and ask as many questions as I can from other PCs. But the UFC is just going to be my thing. Like, we'll do with it what we can. And I had just said, cool, because I didn't know what else to do at that point. And um I get a call. I it was Jake was my fiance at the time. We weren't married yet. And I sent an email. I had getting ready to log out of the office. We were getting to getting ready to go to Italy with this family. I said, Hey, sending it to my managers. Hey, just wanted to remind you, I'm gonna be out of the country for 10 days. So, like, if you don't hear from me, like I'll be back this date. I'd hardly hit the little airplane on the email to hit send, and I my phone is ringing, and it's my manager. I'm like, I know I told them about this. Like, I know that they knew what is this phone call? So, you know, I hope you have a really great time on vacation. Like, do you have a few minutes to talk? I was like, sure, we're like on our way down to the airport, but sure, fine. Um, well, I was just wondering, would you ever leave the UFC? And I went, I beg your pardon. What?

TMac 46:08

Am I getting fired?

SPEAKER_02 46:10

I was like, what do you mean? And she was like, Well, you know, we have this opportunity in the NBA space, and your name came up, and the the leaders of the group really liked what they heard about you and what you've done on UFC, and um, we would like to switch you to the NBA. How does that make you feel? And I was like, I mean, it's great that they think that I'd be a good fit. Like all of the things that you're telling me, obviously, like, yeah, cool, great. But I was like, do I have to give you an answer right now? Like, I it was August. We were getting married in November. I was in the middle of wedding planning, about to leave on vacation, and keep in mind, Jake is a producer on UFC, so we had the same schedule. So life with us was great because we had the same off days, like pay-per-views lined up, like I was gone a week every month. So, like, we never got sick of each other because I was gone. Um, during the pandemic, it was great because we were together, so there was a lot of stuff that like would slip through the cracks, not intentionally or unintentionally by anybody, but like we're constantly talking about work and getting stuff done because we're just together. Um completely different, like we didn't work together day to day, but like we both had the knowledge of what's going on within the group. So I was like, I can't really make unilateral decisions anymore. Like, I've got to sort of talk this over with my fiance, who will be my husband by the time the season is like underway. So they're like, well, yeah, like you can, you know. I was like, oh, and by the way, I'm going on vacation for 10 days. So like I'm not calling you from Italy. Like, my vacation time is still my vacation time. So they were like, Yeah, you know, you can go ahead, talk it over, but we want an answer the day you're back from vacation.

TMac 48:19

So that's so TV network, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

So, but the season was starting. Like, if you think about the NBA, you know, we're getting ready for Media Day and preseason and and all sorts of stuff. So I I mean, logically, I understood it, but I was just like, I've been asking for years today, and I send you an email that I'm getting on a plane, and that's when you that's that's when, but yeah, nothing really shocks me in the industry anymore. But yeah, obviously, I it wasn't anything I could say no to. Um, it was hard, it was hard to leave that UFC group because they were the people that I learned the most with. You spend a lot of time with those people on the road, like it becomes a second family. It was right after my dad passed away. So, like there, they were just there through a lot of different different things, and I struggled to make those phone calls and be like, sorry, like I'm leaving. Um but MBA was not, it's not a sport that you can say no to. It would have been career suicide. So I said yes. The season started like two weeks after I got we got back from Italy, and um I'm still the only PC on studio. I'm still by myself, which is crazy because there are a lot of sports that have a lot of people, and NBA Studio has me.

TMac 49:50

So one of the reasons I wanted to start the pod, and one of the reasons I want to talk to people who are professionals in all the different areas of content creation, good words. Um, so let's walk through what a production coordinator does and will use basketball. So give me uh give me a brief job description and then what it really is.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Yeah, um, I wish I could give you a brief job description because I don't even know what like the ad says anymore, like when you're applying. Whatever it is, it's way too short and is not real. Um we are often referred to as production wizards, not production coordinators, um, because we have to know so many people. We have to know so many different things. Like we're sort of like a catch-all for anybody that has a question about a show, a game, a production, like whatever your assignment is. So in the NBA studio space, I'm on NBA Today, which is our daily Monday through Friday 3 to 4 p.m. show. Uh, nice little plug, please go watch. Um, and then NBA Countdown, which is the beginning of the season twice a week, um, leading into the various ESPN games or ABC games. And as we get into the season, like right now, it's Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, and like Sunday doubleheaders. So we're on, I've got a five-day-a-week show and then a five-time a week show just depends on the day of the week. Then we've got the NBA version of the Manning cast, which last year was the Stephen A. Smith show. This year is NBA Unplugged with Kevin Hart, and that'll air on average six times a season. Just depends on what programming decides and where what our matchups are and where they sort of want to put things. Um this past year we had the in-season tournament um in December, which caused for a lot of specials. Then we've got specials for our specials, like trade deadline, um, free agency, uh, summer league. So, like it all sort of when I had to sit down a few weeks ago and like write down all the different things that I sort of touched. And the list was very long, um, just from a content show perspective. And then there's all the things within those that you touch, which is um reserving edit time for the staff, um, making sure you know the programming schedule, because we have to put our schedules have schedules, and those schedules have schedules because programming needs to see it, the talent office needs to see it, operations needs to see it, facilities needs to know what's going on, like the directing team, like so we have what's called a global schedule, and in that schedule, I put every show where it's from, when it's airing, who the director is, who the AD is, producer, all the talent that are going to be on that day. So that way there are no questions, and everybody that clicks on this calendar, so it's like a sheet that turns into a calendar, it's all color-codenated, it's makes anybody with OCD very, very happy. Um, they click on the calendar and they know what's going on. But within that, because we are studio, we are also responsible for all of the NBA analysts that appear on every other show. Right. So I'm handling all of those talent schedules, keeping track of their contracts, how many times can they be used? We've got people on contract that are full-time, like multimedia, which means they can be on eight times in one day, but it only counts as one. Um, so we've got unlimited, we've got limited, we have people who are technically recurring. So they get like 50 uses. Then we've got what's called broadleaf, and they get 12, and they're paid per use, not like a full chunk of change. So keeping track of all of that, plus the actual programming schedules. Um, if we go on the road, you know, like I found out yesterday that our shows right now are from our LA studio. Last year, the MBA Today was is always in LA, but MBA Countdown was from our seaport. So last year, Thursday through Sunday, I was in New York City. I'd come home, be home a few days, go back down, turn around, just like on this cycle. Um, so anytime we're on the road, that is a lot of takes up a lot of my time too, because again, it's credentials, it's travel, it's finance, making sure we're staying under budget. Um there's, I mean, I could go on and on and on and on and on, but it's a lot of the stuff that people don't even there are there are people that have been with the company forever and they're like, oh, I didn't realize that that was a thing like I had to do.

TMac 55:24

Like, yeah, we gotta like so give me uh give me the real most rewarding thing about the gig.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

That's a good question. Um I think at the so far for me, I think the most rewarding part was how successful the finals were last year um in the in-season tournament in December. So my first season, I, you know, most of the year really felt I didn't feel like I was drowning, but I felt a little, I felt a little bit like a duck. Like my I was calm, but I felt like my feet were like trying to stay like underneath the water. Yes, like hidden underneath the water. Um, and then I got to finals and I implemented like a new system for our hotels, keeping track of all the different changes in all the different cities, and because you don't know until two days before, like where the heck you're going or what the plan is. You got a plan for like eight different things. And in years past, um, there were multiple people that went to the finals, but they took advantage of me because I didn't know that, so they sent me by myself. Um, and it went really well. Like it was really rewarding to see the shows on the road and to see the impact I think that we have just being in the arena and like seeing the fans and um like watching it all sort of come together as a whole, seeing all the work. Like it was very it didn't, I don't think I actually was in the arena much until game five, because as a production coordinator, you're running around like you're going from the game truck to our production trailer to the green room, like checking on catering. Like I wasn't really watching our set and watching the production or watching the game for that matter. But I'm in the arena, but couldn't tell you. Um, so I think that was really I sort of needed the boost to like see it all come together and see all the hard work be successful and know that there wasn't anything that anybody could say that it went off really without a hitch. And then the in-season tournament was the same thing, like it was brand new. The NBA didn't even know what they were doing. So, like for the NBA to not know what they're doing really makes it hard for anybody else to know because it's a brand new event, it's their first year. So working with them, it was we split it with TNT, so we had a segment that we, you know, we got to collab with all of those production folks. Um, that was also really cool. Like the big moments and the big events are really where you get that satisfaction from a professional standpoint. The grind of the day today is a lot. Like, I think just since we've been sitting here, I've gotten over 20 emails. Um, and it's after work hours because PCs just don't necessarily have off time because we're keeping track of all the analysts on all the other shows and handling those requests, and it's a lot, it's a grind. But when you get to the big culminating moments, it's great, and it happens, it does, it does, but you I don't they happen so fast that by the time I'm real like I'm processing and digesting, I'm like, oh, it's over, it's gone.

TMac 59:17

How much of the job is people, and how much of the job is all of those logistical things that you've talked about? What's the balance?

SPEAKER_02 59:26

I think I said this to someone when they asked, you know, similar to me. I'm a CA, I think I want to be a PC, what advice do you have? And I have found in my path as a PC if someone tells you you need to be the most diligent, dot your I's, cross your T's person, super organized, and the rest of it doesn't matter, they're lying. Like I have found that the relationships and being good at communicating and dealing with the people sort of automatically makes the rest of it easier. Because if you're the type of person who is so straight-edged, and well, this is the only way I know how to organize it, and this is the only way that I'm going to do it, and this, this, this, like, you're doomed because again, it's not just talent that has personalities, like, there are a lot of people in high up land and television that make a lot of decisions, and you have a lot of meetings with them, and it like last year and even this year, there's so we have a VP on MBA, and then there are two CPs and then producers for like each group. So I meet with the CP and the VP, the CPs and the VP once a week, just the four of us, because I want to make sure that everybody is on the same page. But those three individuals, they're all great, but they're so very, very different from each other, that making sure that at the end of the day, whatever I have planned logistically is communicated, understood, visually seen in whatever format each person needs it, so everybody is on the same page the entire season is more important than keeping up with some of the paperwork and that sort of stuff. So I've every time someone comes to me and says, I want to be a PC, like, okay, how adaptable are you to human to human? Like, can you make those connections? Can you handle those conversations? Do you talk to everybody the same way or do you sort of gel into whatever that person sort of needs you to be to get the job done? And that doesn't mean to change who you are, but it's changing your communication skills and habits based on whoever you're dealing with in that scenario.

TMac 1:02:10

Well, that was gonna be my last question, so thank you. You answered, you know, because we get asked all the time. Uh as a photographer, I get, uh, I want to be a sports photographer. What do I need to do? And so it I think it's great that you're getting questions and the smart ones are asking, and that's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Yeah.

TMac 1:02:30

But you being honest is even better because um you're doing someone a disservice if you tell them it's only one thing, when of course we both know it's everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Yeah, you have to be I and I've I think I've learned this to your point in the industry, no matter what you're doing, photography, running a camera, audio, like behind the scenes, like super, super behind the scenes, um, like with what I do the the people are what make or break you, I think, in the industry. Like you either love it and you love working with a whole bunch of different kinds of people, or you're like, I'm out. Like that's not how I operate, and that's not how I'm doing things, and see you later. So yeah, I think learning that early is important, um, and figuring it out early is important, and it takes a lot. I mean, it takes a lot of growth, like just in myself. I mean, you knew me when I was young, and I was very like, this is what I want, and this is how it's gonna, this is how I'm gonna do it. And that gets you a certain like distance, I think, in the industry, because you have to have that hard-headed determination. But then once you're in everything sort of, it's no longer individual anymore. It becomes much part of a bigger picture.

TMac 1:04:09

Very well said. Thank you. Uh and you grow too.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

Yes. You have to. Seriously, you don't have a choice. Like that things change, people get left in the dust, and but that's part of I think what makes why I enjoy it is because it it's the industry is changing so fast. Like you're always learning something, no matter which position you're in, from photography to you know, production coordinator. All of it changes. The asks are always different, client to client, and vendor to vendor, event to event. Like you're continually doing things differently. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but either way, you're learning something at the end of the day.

TMac 1:05:07

Elizabeth, I can't thank you enough for being a part of the project.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

Thank you for having me. It was fun.

TMac 1:05:14

I really appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Yeah, it's it's been fun to go. You forget about some of it until someone asks you. And you go, oh wow. That was a long time ago. Yeah.

TMac 1:05:26

It was.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:27

It was.

TMac 1:05:29

See you soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

Yeah, yeah. We'll keep in touch. Thank you. Appreciate it.

TMac 1:05:38

Thanks again to Elizabeth Levelwitz. Her work as coordinating producer at ESPN is all over the network. The Zoom with our feet podcast is a production of TV Commando Media. The Zoom pod theme is by November, and they're funky groups up 10. Until next time, producers, start small and dream big.