No Comfort Zone: Ralph Schudel’s Wild Photography Career

On this episode of the ZoomPod, from his days in sports media to his sports photography, to his new gig as the photographer for the Ohio Department of Public Safety, Ralph Schudel has had a crazy photo journey!

We talk about getting out of your camera comfort zone, creating memorable shots, and his most important advice that includes your "...ass!" Let's talk to a pro!

Ralph's Bonafides:
https://www.ralphschudel.com/
IG: @ralphschudel
X: schudel_ralph

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Check out our other great ZWOF podcast Episodes!

Grab my new Mastering Composition eBook!

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Transcript

TMac 0:08

Hello and welcome to another edition of the Zoom with our feet podcast, The Pod About Learning Photography. With me, your host, T Mack, a professional photographer, videographer, and teacher. So, what do the Columbus crew and the Ohio Highway Patrol have in common? They share the same photographer, of course. On this episode of the Zoom Pod, Ralph Judell joins me to talk about his journey from sports media to sports photography to his day job as a photographer for Ohio's public safety department. Our guest speaker is in the photo lab. Let's talk to a pro. Ralph Shudell, welcome to the Zoom with our feet podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

How are you? Tim, I'm good. I know how to zoom. Can't say I know how to do it with my feet, but uh, you know, I'm sure by the time that this is over with, you will teach me and we will all be better off for it.

TMac 1:20

I'll go slow. Okay. Okay. So tell me, uh, crazy man, how did this uh how did this photo journey start?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh god. Do you want to know the honest truth or do you want me to give you the sugar-coated truth?

TMac 1:36

Uh honest first, then sugarcoated.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

No, the honest is more fun. So back in 2017, God, this is getting this is getting long now. I I work for where I started was a website called massareport.com, which I'm still an active member of it. Um I was a writer, and one of the coolest things I think that any aspiring journalist can see or have happen is when you see your name on your first byline. Like that is the hit of dopamine that you just never know that you need it. So we were um very competitive, very competitive website. We have people that write full time for the Ohio State Buckeyes, we had lawyers, we had people that um were just very talented. So it was tough to get in. I took some unique roads. I, for example, we can touch on this later. I I went down a road with a women's soccer team that ultimately led me get to my led to me getting my master's degree paid for completely for free. Um but what I wanted was to see my name on those bylines more often. And Sam Flammy, who is somebody that you've interviewed in the past episode, was the lone photographer for Massa Report. I said, Hey, I did this in undergrad of college. I know I've got kind of a basic understanding for this. So I went back and I got my Nikon D3000 that I had for college, which if you look by today's standards and specs, um I'm sure the iPhone, the latest iPhone particularly, is probably beating it out. But um, I got my Nikon D3000 and I think in 18 to 55, and I believe it was a four to five six, and I shot in Historic Cruise Stadium, which, if anyone has even shot with great equipment, you know that is quite a laborious task because the white balance is terrible. It's either too green, it's too purple, and you can imagine with your F-stop changing with your focal length, it is just a nightmare. But uh that is what started it. It was because I wanted to see more of myself on the website because I was in love with seeing my name on byline. So I wanted to make it happen a little bit more frequently.

TMac 4:10

You you also answered the first camera you shot with uh and what you shot with it. So you've already dated yourself. Um what what uh self-taught? How did you teach yourself the basics?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Oh, so I wouldn't I wouldn't claim 100% self-taught. I did take in intro to photo class, my freshman, no, excuse me, sophomore year in college at Ohio State University. Excuse me, the uh the the squat team will drop down from the ceiling if I don't drop that uh very important three letters. But um, I had an intro to photo class, really loved it. Um I was very much infatuated with digital photography. I loved at the time I didn't make it as art. I think I saw it as capturing moments. So I had particularly one project that stands out to me was um I had two two female friends of mine, uh Tori and Kara, uh both are now attorneys, if that tells you anything. They were very high aspirational individuals. Um, I had a photo project do the Monday after Mother's Day, and we went to a parking garage on the campus of the Ohio State University, and we did like an urban texture shoot where we would go, I would just look for anything that looked different. I would describe myself at the start kind of as a texture photographer. I loved playing with textures and colors and things like that. Now, granted, it was a very elementary understanding, especially. I don't think I could tell you at the time the difference between a RAW and a JPEG, but I would play with exposure, I play with colors, and there's still images that I have that I look at them, and I'm not gonna say that I was a phenom because I was not. There are still photos I look at from when I first started and got gone, oh my god, what were you thinking? Um, but I take, you know, there were some really good shoots from that, and that I think, especially when you see how you make other people feel when you're using living subjects, that was really kind of the first hit for me that I said, Oh, this is cool. Unfortunately, as we all know, this is not the most cost-effective line of work to get into, it can get very expensive very quickly. I went and explained to my parents, and I think at this time I'm probably 19 or 20, that um I need to get into this. And they look at the price tag at the time, I think 2009, 2010, of what a Nikon D3000 is going for, and they said, You're not that serious into it. Give it a second, you know, chill out. So I put it down for a while. Um, I met Sam, got back into it, and that became the self-teaching journey a little bit. But I also would say that, and I know this is a recurring theme on the show, is that I had my eyes open and I absorbed everything like a sponge, and I didn't question anything. I was very privileged to sit in a photo room as a Columbus crew photographer that had very accomplished people who have shot in the NFL, who have shot on the PGA tour, who have done this way longer than I have, and they would come over, and I know it's kind of a divisive topic in this line of work, they'd look over my shoulder and go, I'd crop that differently. Then I'd sit back and I'd look and I go, Yeah, I get it. So it would be, you know, I would play around with different things, I'd listen. I would never assume that I would know more than anybody else. I still, eight or nine years into this journey, consider myself the dumbest person in the room when it comes to this sort of stuff. But I was willing to learn and listen. And I had people that because I didn't come off as a know-it-all, would help me along the way. And I owe a debt of gratitude to every one of those people.

TMac 8:40

You know, it's interesting is uh I'm a little older than you. I know that's hard to tell, but I nope, nope, I was most recently new to a photo room, and I can personally attest that you go in, you get a lay of the land, you figure out who who everybody is, you be humble, you be respectful, and uh you'd be surprised what you learn and what the the guys that it is their paying job in that room know because they're doing it for real. And I totally agree with you know your assessment of be humble, be respectful of the room, and and everybody in it. You know, I uh it wasn't my first soccer game, but I didn't know the building, I didn't know anything about anything, and just ask questions.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

And as you can attest to, and I'm assuming you mean Columbus when you know I'm I'm just giving you a hard time here, but are we're so fortunate in this market to have such a welcoming room because I'll tell you, we have a guy who comes up from Cincinnati. Shout out Aaron Doster, nothing but love for him. I'll give him a plug because that man's done more for me than I can ever say on the show. We don't have enough time on the show. Aaron, my first time at a Blue Jackets game, says, I mind you, Tim, I've covered the Blue Jackets two years as a writer, never down as a photographer. My first game shooting, I think was October 14th, 2022. It was Johnny Goudreau's first season with the Blue Jackets. Um, and it was my childhood team, which I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, so just an hour outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh Penguins, against my hometown team, which is the Blue Jackets. Aaron asked me, he says, Have you ever shot here? I said no. He was shocked. He quickly took me by the scruff of the neck, essentially, and and I joke. He showed me, here's the cutout, here's the cutouts, here's where you can go, here's the stuff, the stuff you can sit on. Um, you know, we got padding for your backside, because I, despite being a larger man, I don't have I have a relatively flat backside. Um, so it kind of hurts after a while. So, you know, there are things that they've thought about um that I wouldn't have known if he hadn't shown me and I didn't have that past rapport. So it's we're so lucky in Columbus because there are other markets I've been to. I've been up your way, up in Cleveland, where I've been to Cleveland Brown Stadium, where it's I'm pretty sure I was the only soccer photographer who shot soccer dealing with a bunch of Browns photographers at the time that the United States national team was in Cleveland and they didn't know the angles. And these guys are sitting in certain spots, and I'm just kind of sitting there going, dude, you're you're gonna you're going to hate yourself at the start of the contest, you know. So it's um it's like dude, you're going to just absolutely despise this. Uh, and I remember getting to those workrooms and getting to the editing session, and everybody's calling, and they're like, Oh, I didn't get anything. I didn't, I I could use the expletives, but it's a PG, it's a PG rated G show. Uh so um I'll clean it up. They were very dissatisfied with their images. Um, you know, and I'm coming through and they're going, How'd you get that? I'm like, dude, I shoot soccer constantly, man. Like, this is you know, weekly, every Saturday at 7:30. You you know where you can find me. Um, you know, so I'm so lucky to have people that had gone through the process, show me the places to go. And I think now, gosh, eight years, nine years down the road now, I'm in this space where I'm trying different things now. Finally, you know, you get to that spot where everything's comfortable. You know when you hit a shutter click that you're gonna get a pretty decent image. Now, now let's spice it up. Let's put some put some spice in the sauce, let's mix it up a little bit, um, play with some shutter speeds, mess around, and and see what you can get.

TMac 13:29

It's interesting you said up that that last game with the goalie getting red carded and bringing that field player in. So in my head, I I did the same sort of thing. I knew that that from that when he came, when he put on the gloves and he came out, he was the story. So uh I snuck around and went to the midline because I knew that I could get some some some different angles of him on the fly trying to try to make it happen. So it's like a game plan change and being comfortable enough to do that, like you said, knowing the game well enough to do that. Um so before I get there, let's um, and knowing the sports and you know the importance of that, talk to me about um, let's talk for a moment about settings and and how you prepare for a uh a game like when you're preparing for a Columbus crew game, um, what are your go-to settings? Obviously, there's more light than the old players and even Malpar. So, you know, you're you're uh you're probably in a different set of settings. So talk somebody who's probably gonna say, well, what what what are the settings for soccer?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

The interesting thing, I would love knowing what I know now to go back to historic cruise stadium and doing a night game just to see what the difference would be versus old version of me. Uh, I think the last home game was played June 2021, something like that. It was a day game too. I remember that. Um, I would love another crack at a night game just to see if I learned see if I learned anything, kind of like the test. But uh, it's funny you mentioned this, Tim, because we had a uh another photographer, a new photographer I was bringing around, um, who is predominantly a concert photographer. And I was trying to explain to her, she's her she only has a 70 to 200, so she's she lives in really comfortably in 24 to 70 land, which it's fine. It's great, it's a great lens for everything else. But um I would say generally, and again, always learning. When I first started, I would shoot probably one one thousandth of a second, F28, wide open. Whatever happens, happens. As I started getting to faster, well, not even so much faster photography. I would say I would notice two years ago or so, I was losing detail on the faces. The faces were too soft. Um, particularly if it was a darker game. High school games, anybody that's shot high school events knows lighting is not in abundance. It's right down your right down your spine. It sends a shutter down your spine, basically, or shiver down your spine. There was a game I had down in Lancaster, Ohio, that I remember I was on the first baseline shooting over the fence with a 200 to 500, my 200 to 500 I bring to crew games with a 5'6. I think I was shooting wide open at like 8,000 ISO or something like that, and the guy's looking out of focus, and I'm sitting there going, What is going on? And I'm thinking, you know, it's this. I recently at the time I made the switch to mirrorless, and I'm sitting there thinking, oh my god, like, you know, mirrorless isn't what it's cracked up to be. I'm all like, I'm all in on mirrorless right now. This stinks. But is anybody I'll tell you there's that lovely balancing game that you have with Shutter Speed and Aperture that you have to find, you know, you got to get your depth to feel balanced out. And uh yeah, it's a give and take. There's plenty of great graphs online to take a look at and see. But I would tell you, Tim, if you are coming to lower.com field, shameless plug for that company. Whoops, um, even though they're not advertising for the podcast. If they want to if they if they want to, come on down. Tim can use a nice paycheck, as can I. Um, so generally, if we're doing a what's in my bag, it's my Nikon Z62, which will get my 70 to 200 lens on that, and then my Nikon Z72, which will get my 200 to 500 with a 5-6 aperture on it. Now I've gotten real crazy, and I'll jack that up to like uh 6-3, 7-1, even in a night game. Um and I'll tweak, I don't think I go higher than 5,000 or maybe 6,400 ISO on that, because you can always underexpose, and it's better to it's easier to bump up than it is to come down. So it's I rather underexpose 90% of the time. So that's what I would run with. And the photos have been much more sharper. I'm not gonna say I'm the greatest out there because I am certainly humble enough to know that there are many better people out there at this than I am. Um but it beats probably what a younger version of me would have had coming out looking at my camera roll after a game.

TMac 19:00

I learned the beauty recently within the last few years of backing off 2-8. So I will go the same thousand, but I will go three two because the cameras are so good on the ISO side now. You know, if I'm shooting at even 6,400, um, I I can get away with three-two, and I feel like it's just enough where eyes are in focus, but also the rest of the of the head as well. So I tend to go three two for most of the night, unless it absolutely, so I'm a thousand, three, two, and then you know, by the time we hit the second half, um, I'm up to about four thousand, uh, maybe sixty four hundred, depending. And I've noticed the corners, you know, are drop off a little bit. Um, but it's interesting that with I I would have I would have not suspected, and you're sitting right next to me, that you're as as you know high as 7-1 on your aperture. Dog.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Oh yeah, that's nuts. A mess around, and it's a lot of it is just kind of messing around and seeing what again, this goes back to the putting the spice in it and seeing what works and what does a little bit of a different thing. Um, yeah, I I wouldn't say I I wouldn't say I hang out in 7-1 all that often. Um what's really cool, and like you talked about the corners a little bit, and I know you're talking about the LED lighting, but when the sunset comes in, particularly during the early moments of the games, and we're gonna see that now, especially with um fall creeping up a little bit. Yes, it's it's a really cool visual thing where you will have a uh competitor running in a normal exposed situation, but then you expose for the little sliver of sunlight that comes in there, and that's when you hang out in 7-1 territory, something like that, and it hits them perfectly, and you just get those skin tones, just you know, just bright, vivid, beautiful, you know, whether it's a dark complexion, a light complexion, anything like that, and then you start messing with your dehaze and your vibrance, and you're you're off and running.

TMac 21:30

What would you say you specialize in? And we'll get into the other gig, but regarding photography, what what what photography do you feel like you specialize in now? You've evolved, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

You're asking hard hitting stuff here. I didn't realize we were gonna get into like soul searching, gut wrenching things here. This is deep. Um, I would say in Funny you mentioned this on today because today's the anniversary of the last wedding I actually shot um here in Columbus um at the Museum of Art, which to Raylan and Jenny, happy anniversary if you happen to see this. Um but it was two of my uh a former coworker and his lovely wife. Um he it was a military wedding. He is in the National Guard, so he was in full regalia. Uh she was obviously beautiful, um, a beautiful couple. He's an African-American male. Um, she is of like Palestinian descent and everything. So I mean, beautiful humans just off the bat. Um so you gotta try hard to mess up photos of them, if I'm being completely honest with you. But um that really spoke to me. That was back to the going back to the earlier conversation that we had about the impact that you have with humans and capturing them, because everybody knows what you look like here, right? Like I can see my hand, I can see I I don't see the version of myself that's on camera, and people don't see the version of themselves that's on camera as well. Going back to your initial question, Tim, I would say I specialize in sports. I would say that that probably is home. Um, anything else is kind of a step out of the comfort zone, not a massive one as it was a few years ago. But um I think, and this is um particularly something that I always used to say. I worked for a women's soccer team in town, Ohio Dominican Women's Soccer. I was their brand manager. They never had that um before. So what I was in charge of is I would help read, as I've told you, I read stats reports, things like that, tell the coach tendencies and stuff, but I also managed social media and branding and things like that. It gave the girls media days, took photos at practice, similar things to what you would see with professional clubs or semi-professional clubs. I was there. So one of the big lines that I always like to say to people was they would always go, thank you, thank you for everything that you're doing. It's great. And I would tell them, I'm in the business of making people see how cool they actually look when they're kicking a soccer ball, because they only see what they're doing, you know, they don't see how cool they look, they don't see the player or the person that, you know, like what we see at crew games, right? People only see the player in the uniform, they don't see the human associated with that. So if I can capture the human element of that, that's what makes it all the more special to me. But I would say I'm a sports guy, but I'm willing to learn other things too.

TMac 24:42

It's funny you say that because that experience with the goalie. So I went down to the midline and I hung out because I wanted that to me was the story. Because he was gonna do it and he volunteered to do it, and he, you know, he he knew he was going into the breach. And and he did, you know, as well as most field players would do in the goal. I know my one experience in that didn't go well either. I would have loved a four-nothing outcome. Um, but I wanted to get his reaction and right before, and I just spied him the whole the whole half. We got near the end, and it kind of all that weight, and he's such a good dude. And just that brief moment, he um he kind of inhaled, and when he exhaled, he closed his eyes, and I went bang, bang, bang. Yeah, and it's like you said, that that was all at the end there, that was the human reaction.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Like, man, that did not go how I planned. It feels like that's what this journey is all about because you have I'll call them scripted moments, right? You kick the ball, you make the save, you do what you're supposed to do. But those can't I don't want to call them candid because that feels like it's too laissez-faire, but you know, those moments that are just natural and authentic, like Sean Zawatsky taking a big breath, just you know, the great teammate going out there and doing you know what's asked of him, and then it's over. I mean, how many times have you and I had those days at work that you know you go, whoa, it's over? You know, but um you know, it it if you can't relate to that on some level as an observer, then you're you're lying to yourself because everybody's had a a day like that.

TMac 26:55

And that ultimately is what we live for. Like you said, we can shoot and plan. We know when they're gonna come together, we know most of the outcomes, we know the angles, we know how they attack, we know how they defend. But for something like that, it was that moment. And you know, just to say to myself, yeah, I I got it, because I was watching, I knew it was coming, hoped it was coming, and um, but what you said is so true. It's it's it's just uh putting your beyond the settings, putting your storyteller hat on. And that sometimes is where you make that leap from technician to artist in that in those moments.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

And I think not to give a shameless plug to a past episode, it was either Rick who said it or Sam who said it that, and I really took this to heart after listening to the show, is stay on the shutter for an extra couple seconds because you can see somebody throw a ball, you can see somebody kick a ball, shoot a basket, but what happens after? You know, if you had a soccer player on a breakaway and they absolutely just whiff on a relatively give me scoring opportunity, what's what's their reaction going to be? How do you know? You have to shoot through the eyes of trying to explain what happened to somebody if they weren't there. Like you need to understand that. So if you lay on the shutter just an extra half second longer or something like that, that can make the difference.

TMac 28:40

An old older photographer than I told me, he called it staying in the viewfinder. Stay in the viewfinder. Um uh you know, uh the natural reaction for me anyway was to, you know, like a dope, follow the ball. Right? That's not a ball, a ball hitting a net, dude. Yeah, that's not the story. If you stay in the viewfinder and you stay on that face or on that, you know, torso in that case, um, and it served me so well throughout the years. And what I found in addition to that is guys like our friend Gary Moody that make those, and you and Sam, that make those editorial decisions, they go in motion every time. All the time. You know, and there was, I don't know, a couple, two, three weeks ago, somebody scored and they did this little fist, and they were kind of doing a loop and they were looking at the fans and they were kind of doing that sort of thing. It's like stay in a viewfinder. Yeah, buzzing the net. I can hear that it went in, right? And you just stay on your man, stay in a viewfinder. You know, it's it's great advice.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Mm-hmm.

TMac 29:57

That's where you live. That's where we live. So I know that, and and it was funny, I was talking to a friend recently, and and he went, wait a minute, you've you have two cameras and two lenses? And I'm like, yeah, it's pretty standard, especially in sports. So I will I always do the liberty for the sports folks to because I always love to ask photographers, what's your favorite camera lens combination? But in sports, it's what's the right tool for the job. So so give me uh, and you can give me the long, medium, wide, however you wanna you wanna do it. So you mentioned the long, um, and and that has a purpose. What's your what's what's your favorite sort of lens camera combo?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Hard hitting again. This is hard hitting journalism. Um I would tell you, and and this is the funny thing, I made my return back to high school football this past Friday. Um, shooting for we have a conference down here at the Central Buckeye League. I help run media, things like that for it. Uh, I'm the Gary Moody of of the league there. If you're shout out to Gary Moody. Um so the bet the thing that we talked about earlier is that 200 to 500 is a 5'6. That's the min, that's the minimum. Obviously, not going to cut it in terrible high school lighting. I've got a 300-2-8 that is a 300 prime, 2-8 straight up. That is where we live in high school sports world right there. That is it's great. Um, even if the lights are strobing, don't really care. It's gonna be just fine. Um, I would say now that lens is probably considerably older than anything else that I have in my bag, but or I should say hard case as I look at it, it's not really a bag. Um, but I'll tell you, I I just love it because it's it's older, the focus rings are older, it's got the aperture ring that you gotta, you know, kind of click into place and everything. But I know it's like a toaster. You put the thing on, it's gonna work. There's not gonna be any, you know, misf misfires on focusing at all or anything like that. If it is, it's my fault because I stink. Um, but um it's it is older liable, and then the 70 to 200 is fine too. But I'll tell you, it I did a um a press conference, um and I mean we could touch on this. This is for the other the other gig press conference the other day where my camera was so sensitive that it picked up on a speck of pollen and just decided that yeah, we're gonna focus on that, and the face is gonna be out of uh out of focus. And I said, Well, that's a really nice in-focus piece of pollen. Not what I needed, but you know, if if Ohio Department of Natural Resources needs that, I'll ford it on to them.

TMac 33:03

And you can tell them I was trying to do that. Exactly. Yeah, I was trying to be artsy. So yeah, you brought up the other gig. Let's go there. Um, yeah, when this was recent, and and so explain. So you got back into photography, uh, doing sports, uh, doing the web thing, and then what happened? How did it come about? And what made you go, yeah, man, I could do that.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

It happens so fast. Um, and this is an endorsement, I think, of networking and surrounding yourself with great people. We have, uh, which Tim, we've gotta, we've gotta admit you into this. I'm gonna put this on public record so that uh everybody could be in this. There is a Facebook messaging group that we have of the Columbus photographers that Sammy's in it, Rick's in it, um, Dave Heasley's in it. We gotta get, we gotta get you in. I'm gonna petition publicly for uh admission. But I'm sitting at work one day, um, and this is at a previous employer. I used to work for a private school down here. Um, I I'm assuming we're nationwide, but for a northeast Ohio viewer, similar to Gilmore Academy uh up in uh Cleveland, very affluent school, very good. They had an inside communications guy. That was me. I was athletics. Needed something that was gonna be a bit more stable. And uh I don't know what your religious background is, Tim, or anybody else that listens, but I believe that there is uh a higher power out there that works in very mysterious ways. I get a message in our group text from Dave Heasley. He said, Hey, this looks like a really cool job. I would love it, quote, if the hours weren't so wild. Uh and he was referencing the 7 a.m. to 3 30 p.m. start time. I said, I looked at it, Ohio Department of Public Safety, staff photographer. It had benefits, it had more money, it had everything, and I said, and I looked at this, and and I make this joke with my coworkers right now. So you're gonna pay me money to socialize with people and take photos. So I get to network with people and take photos. Sign me up. So are you sure about that? Yeah, I'm like, are you sure? I would have done it for free. Um, just kidding. Um, but um, so that opportunity came up. I applied for it. Uh, from my understanding, uh now that I can now that I've had the job, I've talked to my hiring supervisors, they were very clear to tell me that there were 85 or so applicants for it. They took two for interviews, myself and someone else. Which humble, absolutely humbled. Stop it.

TMac 36:07

I've seen your work.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Oh, stop. But um it it was just kind of like they and they asked me, and this is this is an interesting thing. One of the interview questions was they said, Why do you think so many? Because in the previous application, they had like seven for the previous position that came up as a photographer, so it went up to 85. And they asked me, they said, Why do you think it went up by so much? Well, and I told them, I said, simple. There's a there's a mass exodus in print media right now, unfortunately. I know some great folks who work for great newspapers, and I'm not gonna say names, but they're looking at getting out too. And I said, Hey, people are leaving print media, they're going to where there's going to be stability, and a job like this offers an insane amount of stability. And they they looked at me and they go, Yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, makes sense, you know, and uh the interview process was great. Um, I thought as many times as I had before, I thought I knocked it out of the park. I can't tell you how many times during the job process, I thought I knocked it out of the park to only find out that I landed flat on my face. Um, but um yeah, it it went well and they offered me the job, and it was off and running. It was, I think it within two days I was on my first event, and then you know, I'm doing ride-alongs with troopers, and it was it was crazy. It was uh it's been and every week is new. There is no repeat of anything. I don't think I've been bored. I don't think I've woken up one morning and gone, oh god, I have to do this today. It's I get to do this today.

TMac 38:05

I I think it's in that sense, it is different than the event work that you you've been doing. Start times, meal time, mid break, you know, that sort of structure versus you have no idea at the beginning of a day. I mean, you may have an outline of a plan, or you may have, like you mentioned, a press conference at X time, but uh, you know, in the in the brief photos that you showed me, I I guess I didn't picture how much outdoor work it is.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

And I I I think that's what sold them because my um partner is she came from a background of like studio work, so she was used to controlled atmospheres, whereas I am used to chaos. I some would say I bring chaos wherever I go. Um, but the interesting thing, Tim, and we can circle back to this, is there's an assignment desk. We do have like an assignment desk of there are requests that come in from now uh Department of Public Safety's eight or nine different chapters. There's eight or nine different things that make up the Department of Public Safety. So what they do is they put their requests in similar to um, you know, like a traditional media outlet, except obviously we get some more information where it's you know, specific time, what time we can show up versus the external media, uh, things like that. Um, but there's an assignment desk. So I generally have a relative idea, like I know Wednesday morning I have to leave my house at 5.15 in the morning to get to Cincinnati by 8.30 for an event this coming Wednesday morning. That's real life situation. That's a real life situation that will happen this week. But um so I like it in that regard. But um, you know, it again, no two days are the same, and you never know when the phone rings, who is going to be on the other line, and what they're gonna ask you to do.

TMac 40:16

So I think what's interesting about this uh your background is that it's sort of traditional. But I would consider what you're doing for them as not traditional because it's um uh it it may be uh uh servicing all different types of departments within the public safety, so it is not predictable, I maybe is the right right word to use. And there are I don't think a lot of people that could make that transition, but a sports guy and a good photographer that you are could.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I'm still looking for the good photographer, I don't know where they're at here. I can't find them. Um, no, and I agree, and I think that's um my supervisor will immediately tell you this, and she said she had to sell me uh to her her boss because her boss wanted to go the one direction. She said she felt, and this is on her on her uh quote, is that she felt that her super her boss wanted to go one direction and that she really wanted to bring me in, and he told her, sell me on him, tell me what you know what he can do for us. And I think she said the fact that he's adaptive, he's got a good personality, that he can, you know, nothing really phases him, and it's I can't tell you how many times, and that's one thing I think I learned even from my mid-20s now as as I approach my mid-30s. When I was 26, I would tell you that I I had an attitude. Like Sam Sam will tell you I had an attitude too, that I would let a lot of things kind of bother me and not roll off my back, essentially, as you know, it was just kind of an interesting thing. That was I I I can't explain it, but now it's just kind of like I I think college sports beat it out of me as my brief time as a uh assistant sports information director, but it's just you you've gotta you've gotta learn to go with the flow because no level of complaining or griping or anything like that is gonna change anything. It's like a call with an official. You're not gonna change the official's mind. You can say your piece, you'll probably look like an idiot after you say your piece, but um nobody's you're not gonna change anybody's mind. And you're probably gonna end up wearing some egg on your face too after it's all said and done.

TMac 43:01

Well, good on you for um, you know, we all have to adapt, but your experience in shooting professional sports, definitely cultivated and good old-fashioned maturing, uh helped helped as well. But it's great that she understood that. Props to her for saying he may not have the exact photo, but all the rest of the professionalism he's got.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

And he can learn. And I think it was no bad habits. Like, not to interrupt him. I'm sorry, I don't mean to, I think it was no bad habits. There were no bad habits already etched in there.

TMac 43:49

All right. So that is um that is a cool change, and now you got a duality thing going for yourself, and that's pretty Cool too.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

I feel like Bruce Wayne to an extent. It's uh, you know, I'm out there fighting crime, and then uh, you know, I go back to the secret life. I joke, there's another um, there's another young lady that I work with that she's a public information specialist for DPS, and she has the sports life too. She uh I believe works in radio. So she um works with the blue jackets, helps out with their radio broadcasts, and she we call it our secret lives. That's our uh that's and we use air quotes too. We say our secret lives.

TMac 44:36

Um photo question. If you had to define your personal style or your aesthetic, what would it be? What what do you strive for in your sort of signature? And you can you can separate the types that you do. So let's go with sports. What do you think your style is?

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Editorial, 100%. Um I've talked to Jay Garris, who um is has been a great mentor for me. And I I think editorial, in fact, I drive Sammy nuts all the time because I give him tons of stock photos, and he sits there and goes, What are we? This doesn't do anything for the gallery. This is great to sit on in case so-and-so gets traded or you know, something like that. Um, but he he goes mental because there was a a period of time that out of like the 20-25 photos I would give him, four or five would be stock, and he's like, This is a great wallpaper, it doesn't do what we need it to do, though.

TMac 45:46

Tell me a story, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

We go to tell me a story, tell me a story. Um, and I think that's kind of where where I go with is I want to tell a story. If somebody hasn't seen the game, can my photos tell what happened? Now, switching over to DPS life, that is such a wild experience because I think it breeds to what event am I doing? Is it a press conference? Then we go into kind of want to explain what happened there. You know, what's the what are we conveying? So, for example, I had a press conference uh last week in Fremont, Ohio, which I'm gonna level with you, did not know existed until I looked it up on a map. Uh Terra State Community College, shout out to Terra State Community College um in Fremont. I had an event up there, it was for robotics. So I go to the event, it's all set up, take a picture of the podium. They had some cool robots in the back. I'm like, there you go. It's a the put the um press conference was about you know a robotics program that got some funding from the state, and you know, boom, there you go. Um, so you set the scene, then you get the speaker. Um, it turned out to be Lieutenant Governor John Husted, and then a couple state representatives. And, you know, one could surmise after I was all done that Lieutenant Governor John Husted talked about this grant that this community college got, and boom, here you go. Like that was what that event would be. Now, if you take it to um part of DPS, for those that don't know, the Ohio State Highway Patrol is under DPS. Now, I go on ride-alongs with the troopers occasionally as part of a um operation that they do for drug interdiction. So obviously, one of the things that I want to do, and everything I take is public record at that point. Everything I ever take there is public record. I cannot, I can never post anything I have because it's public record. So when I what I approach, for example, I think one of the images that I explained to you one time was it was a trooper making a traffic stop. And then now you have to become a law expert because you have to do one of several things. Can't show the face of the person that's being pulled over, can't show anything that anybody can easily identify a person being pulled over. So that is included, but not limited to tattoos, blemishes, uh, anything that you could pick somebody out of a lineup and go, yeah, that was them. So then you have to look at cars, right? So cars, if they've got a bumper sticker, if they've got some license plates, you have to scrub that stuff out. You have to protect that person because it's innocent until proven guilty, right? So you have to be cognizant of that sort of stuff, and then if something, god forbid, happens to go sideways, then it's you know, you gotta be careful because your photos might get used as evidence, you know. So it um you just don't want to do anything silly or put yourself into a jackpot, so it's it's something like that that you have to think of, too. Um the another part of it too is conferences. You know, I do conferences, it's not um relatively uncommon for me to be at a summit. We had like a um a law enforcement recruitment summit where there were speakers, people talking about um what are some great practices to get more people in into law enforcement. And they had great speakers there, they had very engaging speakers. Um, you know, so you just kind of go through and you you try to think about sort of situations. Obviously, I'm not gonna be worried about what speakers look like, you know, what they're doing in a setting like that. Another interesting situation that I've run into too is summits, professional summits, uh continuing education summits. Oftentimes, some of them, there are undercover officers there. And one of my main questions to the people that are conducting the summit is do you have anybody reporting as an undercover here? If they say yes, I take no photos from the front of the person to identify the officer. I also try to make sure that they're again no discernible traits, characteristics, anything like that. I always shoot the speaker, I don't shoot the crowd. Um, if they say that there are no undercovers reporting at all or anything like that, um, then it's you know free reign. It's uh you know a traditional um crowd shoot, you do whatever you want. But the those are the small things that you have to um keep in mind. And also, too, and I mean it this goes kind of as a professional courtesy, and I think this is um something that even you and I in the sports world is you don't really want to take photos of children. It's just not a um, you want to make sure you always have permission of the parents, but um, especially too in in my line of work, I work with festivals, do things like that. Uh, you always want to make sure, particularly uh if if the child is not able to, or the minor, even I'll I'll say that too, if the minor is not in a position to make a conscious decision for themselves, uh, you always want to ask a higher higher guard, a parent or guardian, hey, is it okay? You know, um, and that's that's the thing. I I was taught that at a young age, too. It's like that kid may be adorable, that kid may be wearing a crew jersey and you know, root rooting for the home team. But um, yeah, ask ask mom and dad before uh you know getting the image because chances are they're probably gonna want that too, just so that they can put it in a frame and have it on the mantle.

TMac 51:57

When you are shooting sports, or in the in the I guess this is a regular gig now, what is there one accoutrement that you can't shoot without? Could be a creature comfort, could be technology, could be what do you always need to have with you um when you when you shoot?

SPEAKER_00 52:25

The interesting part is um this might be an interesting comment or an interesting take, one of the things that I tend to wow people with, and I know I got you a couple times the last crew game, is uh my phone. Because a lot of the things that I do are based on quick turnarounds. So I would say that I live in the Nikon Snapbridge app. I think that for those unfamiliar, um, that is Nikon's Wi-Fi transfer camera transfer app that they have recently has gotten tons better. Uh, in the first iteration of it, it was absolutely terrible with disconnect. Um, I actually had um for the visual folks that are watching the visual version of this podcast, this was my baby here. This was the lightning to uh SD card dongle that um the phone exactly move it, describe it for him to him the audio for the audio folks, describe it for him there. Um, but you can import real quick and go. But now, thankfully, Nikon kind of got their act together after a large outcry. Um, and their wireless app is fantastic now. But so to do that and then use Adobe Lightroom on my phone, oftentimes sports gig uh or professional gig, a lot of folks want social images. It's no different in sports as it is for professional world. So if there is an event that's going on uh particularly of public interest, they're gonna want images, you know, of boots on the ground, people moving around doing things. So the fact the quicker if you can get that off there, and I've got the preset saved in there for what I typically use, and then just make the subtle adjustments. Um if you can get that in their hands quicker, and although they are technically part of DPS, they are still our customers. So if you can get that in their hands quickly, they're gonna love you forever, and they're gonna if you can make them look good, they're gonna take care of you too in the long run.

TMac 54:41

What's the craziest thing that ever happened to you covering sports? And it could be photo-related, it could be player, what what um sorry, I was leaning back in my chair in contemplation.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Um, for those that aren't watching the the video version, right? The um hmm. I would tell you, I'll tell you this, is it was April 2019, I believe. I think it was the day before April Falls Day. I could tell you later, maybe I'll include it in the photo montage. Historic Crew Stadium, Columbus Crew playing Atlanta United, the rainfall to end all rainfalls in the middle of spring. It was a deluge unlike anything I have ever seen in my life. Walls of water, just and you guys know Ohio weather. For those unfamiliar with Ohio weather, I like to do the running joke that if you don't like the weather, wait until I'm done with this sentence because it probably will have changed. Amen. So it was one of those weird days in March that if it was either March 31st going into April Fool's Day, or it was April Fool's Day going into like April 2nd. Either way, the irony on the weather is not lost on me. So the weather forecasters, the meteorologists were saying that this storm's gonna come in, it's gonna be a thing, like you know, and in Columbus, as I'm sure it is in Cleveland, oftentimes they they hype it up and then nothing happens. So kickoff happens, it starts raining, everybody gets their rain gear on, it's all hunky-dory, it's fine. No lightning whatsoever. The rain begins to pick up in intensity, okay. Wind starts adding into the equation, and then the rain gets to like red on a Doppler radar. Still no lightning whatsoever, so we're playing on. And this is at historic crew stadium with absolutely zero drainage on the field. So you're getting to the point where these guys are basically in rowboats going out and chasing the soccer ball, kicking it as hard as they can, that would be like an 80-yard kick for it to only go 10 yards. So we're all out there, we get to halftime, everybody's in the photo workroom, which at the time, I'm trying to think size comparison, is smaller than the present one that we have right now. So everybody's sitting on top of everybody, their cameras are wet, they're wet, you know, everybody's throwing stuff down in a hallway. And for those that have never been to Historic Crew Stadium, it was put together to become the first soccer-specific stadium, but there are crevices where water can sneak in. And given the fact that there was so much water coming down at a time, there were waterfalls go occurring underneath the stands. So not only did you have the water you had to worry about outside and the elements, but you had to dodge it to get back to the photo workroom. So we all were sitting there, people are like, I just lost my camera, my camera died, blah blah blah blah blah. And you're sitting there, like, oh my god, am I gonna be next? Um, but the imagery that came out of that game, and this is one of the things that you're sitting there in your mind thinking, man, this really stinks right now, but this is gonna be one of those things we're gonna look back on and trauma bond and go, man, that was really cool when you think about it. So the photos that came out of it were just great. They're slide tackles and just tons of water happening and people with jerseys sticking to them, and you know, just like you can tell. Again, there's photos of you can tell the strife. Like they're cold. The players don't want to be out there any more than we want to. And as it's raining in Ohio, for those that have had the unfortunate privilege of being here during the time of the year when this happens, it's raining, it's getting cold, but it's not cold enough to snow. And it's raining a ton. So it's becoming a whole thing. We all get out of there, you dry your cameras off, you put them out, you hope for the best. The next morning it snows. I had a soccer game the very next morning at Ohio Dominican, and it was snowing, and I'm just kind of sitting there going, Well, that's interesting. Luckily, all my cameras worked and everything, but it was like I I think I went to Chipotle after that game and I said, Give me your spiciest burrito. I just need the sweat. I've been, I think my blood is icy.

TMac 59:42

Coming down a home stretch. What I always tell people that photography is good for the soul. Second part of that is how does it make you feel?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

Dang, that's good. That's deep. That's a deep cut. Um I'll wait, I'll wait. I think in the moment, and this goes back to the wedding, the wedding photography, and the most recent wedding I shot. And particularly in Mirrorless now, because you get that brief like tenth of a second of the frame and you go, oh, that's a good one. Like you sit back and you go, oh, that's that's the one right there. If I know that it's gonna be the winner, or the the the money shot, I hate to say it that way because it sounds weird and crass, but if you know that it's gonna be that important and you get that shot, man, brother, that is the dopamine right there that you need to just keep going the whole time. But I think what I'm in it for is the reaction, and it's to me, there's no greater compliment than I'll be cruising social media and looking, and an athlete's photo pops up as their like profile photo, and I took it. That's so cool to me. I I could think of like Dorca Uha's, who um women's women's professional player plays her the Minnesota Lynx now, formerly of Yukon Huskies by way of the Ohio State University. When she was at Ohio State, I took a photo of her during pregame warm-ups of all things. Which there's no that's not sexy. That's not, you know, you're you're in your warm-up, you're not doing anything cool. Um I took a photo of her in pregame warmups, but it was her looking big, getting ready to take a nice jump shot. She loved it. She put it as her profile photo. And I sat back and I'm just like, is that the one? Like, um, you know, so that's cool. That's always fun. Anytime you see, I I know now that Instagram stories are kind of funny because they're like the non-committal version of, hey, I like something, but I I only like it 24 hours much. So it's like when you get the uh athlete posting something on there, that's cool too. Like, you know, Christian Ramirez, I think, shared a couple photos that I've done. Luckily, I'll shoot a DM and I'll go, hey man, do you want these? Because I know, you know, I'm not in the crew stable photographers. Like, you're not gonna see this one when they upload it. So do you want it? Um, you know, and you build the relationships there with um with the players, and I think that to me, I think is the really cool part because going to the crew, for example, you know, do I want the crew to win? Yes. Am I a fan? Absolutely. But I have a job to do too. So but it's it's kind of like a fan. I I always joke with people as it's like it's a fan plus, right? I want the crew to do well, can I cheer? No. But I can also get the players something that they care about too in turn, which is really cool. And the way I see it, I'm kind of making my own souvenirs because I, you know, I'm making my own souvenirs for the game where it's like, you know, I get to share what I'm doing with other people, but everybody else gets to partake in my joy with me. And I don't know if that I don't know if that's a very narc that feels narcissistic to say, but um it it's fun to do that and see just again how you can play with visuals. And and I'll tell you something, Tim. This is something I wanted to bring a point up in the show, is I had a theater teacher, this is Macy Osi, if she happens to watch this, who taught me about always being open, right, towards the audience and always showing expression. But there's one thing I'll never forget, and this is something that carried over with me in photography, and this is something particularly that I do in my professional setting. Change the levels. And what I mean by that is everybody can see when somebody's standing up, focusing with a camera and taking photos, everybody sees everything at eye level. Get a little lower, try it a little bit lower, see how it looks a little bit lower. And if you can take a knee, if your knees are still pretty good and you can take a knee, take a knee. Like try it out. I had a shot that um we we did the 9-11 climb honoring the um fallen first responders for with 41 minutes and 20 seconds of physical activity at Historic Reser Stadium. That there was a um young lady that I I knew from Ohio Dominican who works for DPS. I laid down on the turf, got my 24 to 70, laid down on the turf. She's doing CrossFit, absolutely just working her butt off, with her partner standing over her, encouraging her on, but also kind of like sucking wind because he's been running stairs a very long time. So, you know, as one would expect. But then there's the blue sky in the background and the names of the fallen first responders on the scoreboard there. And I looked at that and I'm just like, there's no way you get that photo if you're standing up shooting down at the person who's doing that. Like, it's so easy to see the world at eye level through a lens that again, like you talked about it, you can be a tactician and you can just come through and just go, boop, boop. Everybody's got iPhones nowadays. I mean, with the new iPhone that just came out, I mean, the camera's fantastic. Everybody's got iPhones, but not everybody's willing to take that extra step of seeing the world from a different angle. It's so easy to be just boring and go through the motions. And but if you try to change your level, or even Sam and I talk about this too with the Columbus Fury, the women's professional volleyball team. We'll go up in the mezzanine, take a 300 and shoot over the net. The imagery that comes out of that with the women absolutely just beating the crap out of the ball across the net is fantastic. Because you get to see how strong they are, how powerful they are. Um, there's an image that I have of Caitlin Clark. Um I covered that game. It was an insane madhouse, and it was incredible, and she is a very gifted athlete, as advertised. If anybody ever gets a chance to see her play, that I have hanging on my wall that she's driving and splitting the lane of three OSU defenders going up for a layup. And I shot that from the handicap section in section 122 in the stadium. Nobody knows that though. It just looks like it's a you know traditional photo. Change the play, change the playing field. It's shoot down, shoot up, you know, just don't you can do this all day long, it's fine, but that's that's not where the fun is, man.

TMac 1:07:30

All right, last question. So what would you tell the aspiring Ralph to do, to know, to learn as they start their journey? Photo journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

I would tell them to not be afraid to mess up. And uh can I cuss? It's a light cuss. It's it's not a heavy cuss. Um go for it, baby. Don't half ass it, whole asset. Put put your whole ass into it. If you're gonna mess up, mess up hard. So to anybody that's new out there that wants to get started, I would say this. Practice, practice, practice. Email school athletic directors, uh coaches, things of that nature, and say, hey, I'm aspiring. Set the expectation though, and say, hey, may not be the greatest, may not be the best, but I'm willing to work on my craft with you. Can I come in, get some access, work on, you know, making your brand. Because a lot of these folks, particularly, this is kind of how I started a lot in a way, was there was a semi-professional women's team out there that didn't have a lot of coverage at all or anything like that. And I jumped all over the coverage. I said, I'm not the best, I'm not the flashiest, I can't guarantee you that everything's gonna be Columbus crew worthy. Give me a shot. I can do it, it'll be fine. And there, they those smaller programs, even at a small D2 school like ODU, will be so appreciative of anything you can do, even an in-focus photo from the back. That's the first thing I'll tell people because I have a friend of mine that loves shooting sports photos from the back, and I always tell her, I say, What's the story here? There's no story. You can't see the strife, you can't see the pain, you can't see the agony that this person is going through. It needs to be from the front or the side. Give me a profile, give me something, because the eyes are the key to the soul. The other divisive topic that I will tell people too is work for free. It's okay to do it sometimes, but know when you have eclipsed that part of your career and that you can start making money for it. There's nothing wrong with unpaid internships, there's nothing wrong with working for free temporarily, but know when it's time to leave out of that position and start making money or start trying to advance your career. Because I will tell you, some of the best things that I learned were working for free, and some of the best connections I made I did while working for free. I lost money, I've lost a lot of money in this adventure, but I like to think that I've won in the long term with a good career, a master's degree, great friendships, things like that. Don't come into this business immediately, and this is a thing I see too much of this younger group of short form content creators and photographers coming in thinking they gotta make they gotta be in the black within the first six months of being in business, dude. It's not gonna happen. Like, I I appreciate the hustle and I appreciate the grind, but you you're gonna have to lose a little bit of money for a while before you're fully profitable on this game. And I know it's different out there, and people are trying to hustle and trying to make their money and make their mark, but you gotta enjoy the climb a little bit too. You can't run straight to the top and expect everything to be fine. Enjoy the climb, enjoy the process, make friends along the way and see where it takes you.

TMac 1:11:43

Ralph, I can't thank you enough for being a part of the project, man. It is so awesome to work with you and now get to talk a little shop with you. Um can't thank you enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

I just hope your viewer count doesn't go down after this or your listen count. What viewers? I don't know. We gotta get that sweet YouTube money, man.

TMac 1:12:11

Right. See on the sidelines if I'll go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

Thank you, sir.

TMac 1:12:24

Thanks again to the multi-talented Columbus-based Ralph Chudell. You can check out his work at RalphCudell.com and on all of his social media channels. The Zoom with our feet podcast is a production of TV Commando Media. The Zoom Pod theme is by Novembers, and they're Funky Groove Cloud 10. Until next time, photographers, if you're not shooting, you're not learning.