Teaching Media Arts With Grit, Humor, And Heart

In this episode of the Zoom With Our Feet Podcast, TMac talks with media arts teacher and former radio producer Bernie Van Tilburg about how teaching, storytelling, and real-world media skills help students learn photography, video, and creative production the right way.

• radio beginnings and learning timing under pressure
• why teaching sharpened empathy and communication
• building a modern media arts program with Adobe, VFX, and live production
• teaching three editing ecosystems with shared fundamentals
• sequencing projects from scenes to complete stories
• student tech gaps: phones vs real computers and file discipline
• teamwork, communication, and career-ready creative skills
• career advice: eagerness over ego, grit over glamor

You can see his students' fantastic work at cvccwork.edu slash mediaarts
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Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open: Teaching Shapes Character
• 1:09 Meet Bernie Van Tilburg
• 2:20 Radio Beginnings And Overnight Grit
• 6:17 From Bits And Parodies To Brand
• 9:18 Marriage, Stability, And The Pivot To Teaching
• 12:22 Early Classrooms And Hard Lessons In Tone
• 15:19 Building A Career Tech Program
• 18:22 Editing Across Avid, Final Cut, And Premiere
• 20:35 Curriculum, Sequencing, And Slowing Down To Mastery
• 24:12 Students Then And Now: Phones vs Computers
• 27:04 Teamwork, Transferable Skills, And Parent Buy-In
• 29:06 Why Teaching Makes You A Better Human
• 31:05 Career Advice: Eagerness Over Ego
• 33:03 Closing Notes And Resources

Transcript

Bernie: 0:04

You know what it is? It's kind of like when you get married. Being married forces you to be a better person. It forces you to recognize issues in yourself that you need to work on. And being a teacher, you know, sometimes you get you look in the look in the mirror and you go, I didn't handle that too well. And I lost my patience. And I, and man, it really makes you a better human being.

TMac: 0:44

Professional photographer, videographer, and teacher. Do you know what makes a great media production pro? A good mentor and teacher who chose to teach media to the next generation of creators. My next guest fits that description perfectly, and I'm happy he could fit me in on a conference night. Bernie Van Tilburg, an industry media pro, turned media arts teacher at Cuyahoga Valley Career Center, joins me to talk about his secrets to teaching today's media production students. Look out. There's two teachers in the photo lab. Let's talk to a pro. Bernie Van Tilburg, welcome to the Zoom with our feet podcast. How are you, sir?

Bernie: 1:40

Thank you for having me. I'm doing great. You know, we're right at the end of a day here teaching. The kids were all over the campus making making movies, incorporating visual effects today. So it's kind of like, ah, catch my breath here before we're getting into some parent-teacher conferences tonight.

TMac: 1:56

And I'm gonna make you talk about it.

Bernie: 2:00

Let's do it.

TMac: 2:01

So, but first, I like to um as I say on all the episodes, my my goal is to sort of prove my my theory that everybody didn't start as a pro. They work towards it and that everyone has a journey. So like like myself, you came from professional ranks. So first question is um go through your professional journey up to teaching.

Bernie: 2:32

Great. So I went to uh Kent State, didn't even have a major until I, yeah, there you go. Did you do that on purpose? So I didn't even have a major until I was like a junior. And at the time, you know, talk radio was kind of big, and I was listening to that, and I was really going, hey, that would be a cool gig. So I uh I went and I was a radio TV production major. So I went to Kent State, uh worked at what was WKSU, the student radio station at the time, and TV2, the student TV station. And that was in the early to mid-90s, and came out of that. I was one of the one of the few people in my major that landed a job right out of college. So I latched on it. It was 3WE at the time, 1100, now it's WTAM, and I was part of that when they changed over the call letters, working there as a producer for the most part. So um, I produced like with for guys like Rich Michaels. It was kind of fun. I got to work with Jeff and Flash, kind of Cleveland legends. There, I worked with them for a while. Uh I even what at one point I was doing, I was doing overnights. It was kind of funny running uh uh what was his name? Bell, his last name was Bell, but he would do all this kooky like conspiracy UFO stuff, and that was fun. And um, while I was doing that, I was also working at channel three. So I caught on at channel three at the time. I was working at Kmart paying the bills, and channel three calls me, like, hey, can you come up? We got an opening for floor director. I was like, ah, I really got to work, you know, and I felt bad. So I went to work and my manager's like, What are you doing? She's like, go over there, call them back, you idiot. So I went, call them back. I'm like, yeah, I can come in for an interview. I can be there in 45 minutes. They're like, okay, get up there. So I was actually working until midnight at the radio station. Um, I forgot I was running some syndicated show at that point just to be in a board op. Working till midnight, and then I had to be at the TV station at 4 a.m. Well, I lived in Medina, so there was no reason to drive home. So I'm going, I'm leaving the radio station at midnight. Over it was over on West 9th Street, going to channel three, which was on like E6 or something at the time. And I'm I'm sleeping on the floor behind the uh behind right behind the news desk. And my fear always was that I was gonna like oversleep and I was gonna wake up and my I was gonna pop my head up over the desk halfway through a newscast. So so one of the days, this camera guy finds me, he's like, What are you doing, man? I'm like, you know, I'm trying to grab two hours of sleep before I, you know, work till noon here. And uh he's like, Oh, I got this little army cot in the back. So right behind the where they did the what the chroma key wall, he set up a little army cat cot for me. So I'd sleep there for a few hours, and then you know, I was floor director ripping scripts and pointing to the camera that was on, um, you know, driving home, like slapping myself in the face, trying to stay awake. So I did that for a year. Yeah, I did that for like a year, and then I finally got uh full time at the radio station, and I actually preferred radio over television. I thought a little more creative. And again, it was at that time where um a lot of fun stuff was kind of going on. It was kind of a heyday of talk radio kind of taking off, and it was fun.

TMac: 5:40

Did you get to a point where um because I know I did, when you just weren't sure about so you have some sort of a consistency, consistency, a regular gig. And and at some point did you ask yourself, now what?

Bernie: 6:01

Yeah, it was kind of because I was always like, man, if I could just have one job and working like three jobs, you know, sleeping on cots behind news sets, and it's like and when I and then when I finally did catch on, I got full time at the radio station, and it was kind of like, oh, there was so I missed some of the energy and the craziness of it. Um so yeah, I was kind of like, well, is this it? And then I actually at that time 1100 merged with the the company. We kept getting bought and sold. And that was the hardest part of working in radio. Is every six months you got your station got sold, and then you had to figure out if you had a job, and then if you had luckily, I was just a producer, and they usually didn't fire us, they would fire the hosts, you know, and the program director. But it got to be like, oh, so we got bought by the the same company that owned KR at the time, and then so I actually switched over and then we split again, so I got to know them, and then I caught on, and they offered I got a little bit more money to go and work at WKR. So then I was producing for guys like uh you know Greg Brenda and Kenny Rhoda. And my kind of my claim to fame was doing like bits. So at one point, um, while I was still at 1100, I was doing uh I was running the syndicated Bob and Tom show out of Cincinnati, and they were famous for doing like these parody songs and phony commercials and all this stuff, and they were great, but they were way too long. So I actually started taking like since we were paying for the syndication, we could use their bits. So I would take a minute and a half bit and cut it down to like 30 seconds and have it be a hilarious 30-second bit, you know, and that really kind of taught me how to, you know, how to deliver kind of a punchline, how to develop a bit and just editing their stuff. So then I started doing some stuff on my own. Um, you know, and I was actually working the overnights at that point. So I was leaving it for um guys like Trevisano, and he would start playing them. And Marty would call me Bernie the Bitman on the air, and I'd drive it home and listen, going, Yeah, that's my bit, you know. And um so that was kind of the way I kind of developed that was kind of my my little brand or whatever you want to call it, was I started doing these bits and parody songs and all these different voices. Sometimes I'd call in as different people, I'd call in as like Marge Shot or something like that, you know, yeah, honey. I call in as these different, you know, I called in as Marge Shot after she, but then she died. I'm like, oh, there's my gig, you know. So like I'm calling in from hell as Marge Shot because she went to hell. Boy, is it hot down here, honey? You know, and I know I'm in hell because they put me, they put me in a room with Sammy Davis Jr., you know, because she was a notorious, like racist and anti-Semite anti-Semite but so she's like, you know, that's all I know I was in hell because I'm with Sammy Davis Jr. So I do stuff like that, and that was fun. Um, and then did some of that over then so I got went over to K and R and I was producing the morning show with uh with Greg Brinda, and then we didn't that's time slot didn't have a lot of time for bits, so then I would do bits and leave them for Kenny Rhoda, and he would use it in the afternoon. So I was kind of part of both shows, and that was kind of fun, and um did that for till like 2002 2000 or so, 2001.

TMac: 9:22

So did did you did you get to a point where uh did did the industry tell you when it was time, or did you did you say to yourself, I think I need something more stable?

Bernie: 9:38

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Because so I finally got a full-time job, so I could I was uh dating my wife at the who's now my wife, but it's like um my wife of she's what is it 28 years now. So in 1927, because in 1998, I so I finally got full time. I'm like, hey, I'm full-time, you know, I'm I'm like a grown-up here, I can get married and everything. So so I proposed to her and we get married, but then it's still, you know, then our station got sold again. Like, am I gonna get fired? You know, we want to start having kids, you want to start having a family. It's like phew. And so how I bridged into teaching was that um I was teaching for some side money. I started teaching over at the Ohio Center for Broadcasting, which was like a, you know, because when they would send us interns and stuff, and they they were always looking for people to come over there and teach. So I started going over there and teaching, and I really enjoyed it. It was like, wow, this is great. I like because not only could I do my thing, but I'm helping, you know, four or five, six other people that now are doing their thing, and you kind of start to see it's kind of like the NFL with those coaching trees, you know, you kind of got this coaching tree that starts to go, and you're like, hey, number one, teaching, hey, it's stable, you know, you put your 30 years in, you got a nice retirement fund, the healthcare is great. Um, you know, so there was a program at Kent State at the time, and I talked it over to my wife, you know, hey, you know, that was my dream, but I kind of my dream now is part of it that is having a family, and you know, so they had a program at Kent State where in like two years you'd go back and actually get a master's degree in education. They call it the master's in the art of teaching. So I was still working at the radio station, but then taking classes at Kent State and got my degree for to be an English teacher. I thought I was done with broadcasting. I was like, hey, because most of the credits I have or I had as an undergrad, it was the easiest one to get to. I just had to take a few content courses and then finish the program, and then boom, I was gonna be an English teacher. And then I graduated from the program, and all these schools wanted me for their broadcasting. So I was the first one out of the cohort to get a job. You know, we I showed up at the job fair and I showed up in shorts and a flip-flop, and the teacher was like, I was like, I already got a job, and you said I had to come, but I don't want to be here because I already got a job. She's like, okay, get out of here. Um, but they wanted me for to be like the broadcasting teacher who could also teach English, you know. So that's I started teaching at North Royalton High School in 2000, 2001. So it's right before nine. That was one of my biggest memories, is like my second week into teaching 9-11 happened. You know, we're sitting there with a sitting there with a bunch of kids watching the planes crash in the Twin Towers and going, uh, hey guys, you need to talk about this, you know. So that was how I made the bridge into teaching.

TMac: 12:28

Um both Kent Strait grads, both of us. I my path was uh I had worked in television production for since I got out of Kent State. I was about 10 years ahead of you. I I graduated from um it was before JMC and um I think it was radio TV film uh degree, and it was a little bit of everything. Um was Ben Whaley still there when you were smoking his pipe? Yeah, man. His little uh sweater vests and yeah, sweater vests and his pipe, man. So spring, let's see, this would have been spring of 1983. I was getting ready to graduate, and he had sort of taken me under his wing, and he said, you know, what do you want to do? And I said, I want to do production. And he said, Okay. Um, a couple weeks later he comes back and says, Hey, I I have a contact down in Atlanta, and CNN at that point was only five years old and or or was about ready to turn five. Um they're they're looking for people, and it's literally just cattle calls and send them a resume. And I did, and literally, I was still living at home. I'm from Ashtabula, and phone rings. I happen to answer it, and it's somebody from CNN and Atlanta. Can you be down here for an interview in two weeks? So I went down there. It wasn't an interview. If you if you passed, they basically hired you. You showed up. I'm like, oh my gosh, I had everything I owned in a VW rabbit. I had only planned on three days and two nights in a hotel, and now I have a job. So I came back and went back. Ben Whaley got me that job, long story short, because he knew somebody who knew somebody. That one got sort of pulled out, and that's how I that's how I started. It was the craziest thing. And I had met my future wife at Kent State. Um, she was in the nursing program a year behind me. She graduated, came down. We moved back after I had sort of run the course of entry-level stuff. And then I worked all along the way. I worked another 20 years in in production, but I got to the point where I was doing 35 weeks a year of production, mostly golf, and I had to stop. I it this was, you know, we were going trying to start a family, all that same path. And I got to the point where I was like, and again, here in uh, you know, North Canton, my wife went to high school here, lived here, grew up here. I show up and meet the video production gentleman in 2000, 2001, and started in 02 and never looked back. Went through the same program. Now, I already had production and was already hired to do video productions. So I didn't really have to specialize. My my license is uh career tech.

Bernie: 15:59

Right. I had a transition over to career tech when in after I'd been at Royalton for three years, a student of mine was like, Hey, my mom works over at the Career Center and they're starting a new program. Did you know about it? I'm like, no, I didn't know about it. So so I sent a resume over here. Um, and they kind of already had somebody in place who was kind of developing the curriculum. And it was one of those weird things where you know, I went through the interview process and I found out years later that that one of the guys, Frank Hummel, who was an assistant principal here, he's he was a great guy. Um he like went to bat for me. He's like, I don't care what the other guy did, you're hiring this guy. And I and it was funny because he came back a few years ago because he asked, had he's actually off and on over the over the years, he's had a student do some of my students do some stuff um with this socal Czechoslovakian culture center that he has that he's a part of. And I was like, hey Frank, I one of the other people that was in the job interview process told me, like, you went to bat, did you know my dad or something? I didn't know I was like, What the what was the connection? He's like, No, he goes, I don't remember. He goes, I don't even remember because I think I just, you know, because I think I'm just a good judge of talent. I was like, because he I was like, okay, well, thanks, man. I owe you 20 years later. Um, yeah, so I had to go back to Kent again. So I've actually gone to Kent three times as an undergrad, as a grad, and then to get my career in tech certification. So they've gotten a lot of my money, actually.

TMac: 17:29

I think I still owe them money.

Bernie: 17:31

They call me up, you know, would you like to support? I'm like, I think you've got enough. This is just between us.

TMac: 17:36

I'm safe. Uh so now, after all that sort of on-the-job training in in media, specifically radio, now like like myself, you gotta learn the craft of of educating. How was that transition?

Bernie: 17:59

It was I tell you, it was it was I mean, I had I had good rapport, you know, because you come from the radio background, the communication background background, and I was probably a little immature for my age. So I was I could connect with the kids, and that part of it I was good at. Um, but sometimes you you come from that radio background, especially at that time in radio 90s with kind of the shock jock stuff and the outrageous kind of stuff. And I I did some things that was like, oh, like I was having us do the announcements. You know, they did the announcements as like a video program, you know. And and and I can see this trade wreck. So it's me and this kid and these kids, you know, and and they and I and I throw out these ideas and I was like, oh, so they're doing an announcement for instance, for example, doing the announcement for uh tryouts for the wrestling team. And you know, and I'm a big breakfast club, you know, I love that movie. Going back, I'm like, oh, why don't we say, hey, if you like to wear tights and roll around on the mat with other guys, come out to I'm like, it's gonna get their attention, you know, it's gonna be great. So we do that announcement, you know, we do it the first day, you know, no problem. Second day goes on, hey, if you still haven't had a chance, you know, strap on your tights and get down here. The guys are sweaty and ready to go for you. And I have the students saying that on the part of the announcement show. So second day we do it, end of the day. It's the wrestling coach, and he he's not, he's not happy. He's not happy at all. And he's like, Um, I think some of your kids, if they keep saying that, are gonna run into some trouble because my wrestlers are pretty ticked off and they're pretty tough guys, and the guys you got doing the announcements aren't. So you might want to not have them say it like that anymore. I was like, uh, I'm really sorry. Uh so I actually had to go. I had to go on the announcements and apologize to the entire school, apologize to the wrestling team. That's part of the announcement. I'm like, Dear coach. Yeah, yeah. I just like to apologize on behalf of me and the students. I take full responsibility, you know. So it was a little bit, you know, figuring out where that line was took me a little while. And the other thing, the other funny thing I got in trouble for, there was a kid who was running for class president, you know, and his and his name was Mike Fu. I still remember. And his last name was spelled F U. So I said, Oh, I said I got the perfect slogan for you. Vote for me. Oh no. Or spell my last name.

TMac: 20:27

Oh no.

Bernie: 20:28

Or he goes on the announcement. He's like, and I'm Mike Fu, vote for me, or spell my last name. And I thought that was clever. You know, the kids got to think of. End of the day. Uh Mr. Van Tilberg, you know, so it was the late. Yeah. It's like, uh, can't say that. I was like, all right, yeah. So I had to, yeah. So it was like, okay, we gotta try and have a little fun. I'm trying, but but the kids are listening. They're actually paying the attention to the announcements for the first time. Of course, forever, you know. So we had to figure out, you know, it wasn't the same standard in a in a TV, in a uh, you know, the announcements as it was for uh for talk radio at the time.

TMac: 21:14

Uh I'm I'm I'm quite positive that you have managed to insert some comedy along the way, given that auspicious beginning.

Bernie: 21:25

Yeah, yeah. So that was Northworld, and then and then so I came over to the career center here, and it's kind of like, wow, the resources. I mean, my first year they bought like remember the Panasonic DVX 100A's, they were like the first prosumer cameras that shot the 24th piece. Film loved everybody loved them. Yeah, those are great. And and it was it was funny because I mean, I yeah, I took video production classes and I, you know, I worked at channel three, but I was the I was the monkey that pointed to the camera that was on. It wasn't like I had a lot of experience, but I did. But again, so now I'm throwing in, I'm trying to teach, you know, I'm teaching after effects and all, you know, and I think we started with avid media composer at the time. Um, and it's kind of like, oh, I gotta figure this out, you know, because I had never used After Effects before. So it was like, oh, you know, so it's a lot of, you know, and that was just when YouTube was trying to start to get going, you know, so you're finding that, or there's you know, classrooms in a book going figuring that stuff out. Um so you kind of got to get that knowledge as a teacher. And you know, I I teach a little bit, so it's like that, you know, that knowledge base, as they say, be an inch deep and a mile wide, you know, you gotta know a little bit about everything.

TMac: 22:33

Well, and I always say that that, especially for media teachers, you are you have to know it well enough to teach it. And that is different than knowing it well enough to use it. And and that's you know, pretty much what you described. I was a camera operator by by choice and by trade. And it took me um a lot of years to learn the craft of editing. But I had one thing in my favor. When I worked in sports, I was one of the few camera guys that went to the editors and the replay guys and said, Well, what am I what am I doing right? What am I doing wrong? And boy, did I get a an ear for that? Because for them it's editing, but for me, and the biggest sin is I was only paying attention to the director. I had no idea of this other parallel world of all of the guys and gals in the back of the truck recording everything. And so they were like, yeah, sit down for a second. Okay, when the court don't, don't, don't whip pan off to some hold. There might be a reaction. All kinds of which essentially are editing concepts, not shooting concepts. And I think that A made me a better camera operator, but B helped me understand conceptually how to edit, and then I had to, you know, uh I had to make the digital transition. When I started editing at CNN, it was three-quarter inch tape. You know, it was essentially copying. It was glorified copying. It was not editing, it was, but it was just a copying process. So yeah, I had to, like you, I had to, I had to learn a ton of software. How do you think um so even from your arc, which was what was your first year teaching?

Bernie: 24:30

My first year teaching was at Northwarelithon was 2001. My first year here at the Career Center was 2004.

TMac: 24:38

So I was three years at Northworldon, and then I've been over here for so even in the early 2000s, much of the software was in its rudimentary stage. So you've learned um throughout the years all of the really important platforms, Avid, Adobe Suite Now. Um, what do you guys use there?

Bernie: 25:04

We're using Adobe Suite Now. So we had Avid when we first started, and then Final Cut came along, and everybody around here was using Final Cut. So we went to Final Cut, and then that Final Cut X came out, which was garbage. So everybody bailed on Final Cut X, and everybody was like, Well, we're using After Effects in Photoshop anyway. Let's use Premiere. So I've actually in this program taught three different editing systems over the years. Um, you know, and you just I never took a class or anything. But when I was at Kent, we were editing, we had the two tape decks with the control surface, and you had the program and then sit back and went, you know. And so I was at the tail end of that and at the beginning of kind of everything digital. Um, and you know, you get the the concepts, and it's funny you say that, like you shoot you, you all shooters should edit because then you shoot like an editor, especially, you know, not just in live, but if you're shooting stuff to edit, once you've edited your own stuff a few times, it it totally changes the way that you shoot, you know, you really become a better shooter.

TMac: 26:02

I if I've said it a a thousand times, I I told students shoot like an editor, think like an editor when you shoot, exact same, exact same thing. Um did you um you've also gone through the sort of educational arc of the state and ODE and the and the uh monikers of career tech. Um media arts did not exist in 2004, 2005. So has your program gone through those iterations of what the state calls it?

Bernie: 26:44

Yeah, so it was a it was it was a brand new program to CVCC when I started it. Now, somebody else had already kind of written some of the some of the curriculum. And so I had come in and it was actually called media technology at the time, and it was funny because they just put technology at the end of everything. It was marketing technology, auto service technology, welding technology, and and it was named that way for a while, and then actually I was like, you know, the colleges aren't it was it was for some reason it was just predominantly male. Like I was getting my class was all guys, and I'm like, there's no reason for this. Um, you know, and it was so funny. I changed, I was like, and a lot of the colleges were calling theirs media arts. I'm like, well, I'll just mimic what they do. You change to media arts, all of a sudden it was 50-50 female male. It was like just by changing it from technology to arts, and it was like, okay. But then yeah, they started saying, hey, you got to have these different courses. Um, because when I first started, it was kind of the wild west, and I was just doing whatever and trying to figure it out. And it I like the idea of the courses because it does give you a little more of a structure. Um, so I think that was a positive. Um, and I've I've changed the courses here and there and I've tweaked them. Like this year, I actually am doing something different because I I was an English teacher and they had an embedded English credit in my program. And um, this is the first year they don't have that, so it freed up an extra 45 minutes of time. And then I was doing a broadcasting class, and I'm like, the opportunities just really aren't there for broadcasting. It was too narrow, you know. So I ditched that class and have a class called video production now. So I can still do the broadcasting component, but I could still do podcasting and I could still do marketing videos, and I could still do live event video. It just frees me up. Um, so I've done some tweaking of that. I've tweaked how long. Sometimes I I had some courses, only one a semester. Now I'm at four courses to the junior year, to the senior year. Both courses go all year all year long.

TMac: 28:54

How um how has the program so um from a curriculum standpoint? Um pretty much all the programs in the in Ohio are media arts. Um that switch was made right at the end of when I was teaching video productions. And for the first couple of years before media arts, the closest thing was IT had some video classes in it. So they made uh they sort of put us in that box, uh, and it was all fun and games until those uh web exams came around, and suddenly, you know, I had been teaching English and they were being tested in on Spanish. And I had to then carve out some time to make sure, you know, I had some basics of what I thought the web exams were going to cover. It was really difficult, and then we finally made the decision um after after both teachers in the program said, you know, you want to improve your scores. Um maybe we should be in media arts. And immediately the next year, uh, you know, there was no special uh, you know, two weeks where Mr. Mack was teaching a foreign language. It was we've we've been teaching this, we've been doing this all year, you know, depth of field is depth of field, and off we went. Um, you know, kids scoring advanced and and all of that good stuff. Um how have you changed as a teacher from uh those early comedy days to today?

Bernie: 30:41

Yeah. I I did go through that too with that because we had that period too when I when I started, and I forget even how they did it. It was just like they kind of left the well, you can do arts and communications or IT, and for some of the certifications that we actually pretended I was IT, and for some of the web exams, we pretended I was arts, and it was just kind of like trying to make it work, and so they they they did solidify the arts and communications option there, and that's yeah, and it definitely helped the kids because yeah, I don't do it, I don't know how to set up a computer, I don't know, I know how to use the software, but I don't know how to install the software or for some reason I can seem to figure it out. Yeah, I don't code at all, and I don't, you know, but so my how have you changed how have you how have you evolved? Yes, the the biggest thing I think that has changed in my teaching over the years is that I keep going slower and I keep chunking things up into smaller chunks to let the kids digest them, master something, and then move on. And at the same time, I am throwing them in over their head too. So I we can't teach everything that they would need to make a short movie or a music video or a TV commercial, but we still need to start making those, other than why the kids are bored, right? So, you know, giving them modal pieces and then coming back to the assignments and going, okay, now that we know shot composition, okay, now that we know the difference between a telephoto and a wide angle lens and why you might want to use that, or why you might let's redo that, or let's try this other assignment that's similar, but we're taking it to the next level. Um, so really having that having that overall grasp of where we need to get and the pieces that we need to do to get us there, and then being able to slow down and and kind of hit drill, continue to drill those those other skills that we're going to continue to use and then adding more and adding more, but then continuing to review. So I think I go, I think I'm I go slower. I think I repeat a little more, um, because I just seeing that's what the kids need. I think I've become a better teacher, you know. Where before it was like, okay, we're gonna make this, we're gonna make this commercial, and here's four weeks of everything you need to make a commercial, and now let's make the commercial, you know, and it's just like the kids are like, huh, what it's overwhelming. So I'm better at breaking it down and better at seeing, better to see, I'm better at seeing the whole year, kind of the scope and sequence of what they what they call it in the educational world, but but kind of mapping everything out and having things kind of happen at the right time, and still, but still keeping the kids a little over their head, you know, because then that keeps them interested and also keeps them when you do introduce that, they realize, yeah, we needed that because we couldn't do that for the last thing. And now, so it it prepares them to I think it makes them a little more of an eager learner. Yeah, we needed that and we didn't have it. Now you're teaching us, and now we're gonna listen because we realize we needed that because we didn't do that, or we didn't have that component the last time we did it.

TMac: 33:58

Uh well said, totally agree. The the sequencing in my last years doing it versus um at the beginning um was completely different. Um I got to the point where, okay, you know, all you Spielbergs want to make a short film, let's shoot a scene first. Let's diagram a scene. Let's figure out what's uh you know what's um uh reverse, the concept of reverse, right? Two people talking, shoot uh shoot it, shoot that person's part, all of it. Shoot the whole thing. Go through it. They can even be talking back. And when you got everything, then switch and do it again. Well, you know, they'll fight you about time, but uh once they uh once they as you said, once they got it, they're like, oh, this scene goes. And I go, and that's all a movie is, folks. Just a bunch of scenes. Uh then when you really start going up a level, how do you transition this scene to this scene to this scene? And that's where we talked about when we were writing three phases of production, right? All of that stuff. You are absolutely correct. I sequenced it way better at the end. Right, right. Um how do you think students have changed from the time you started until now? What's different about your students, good and bad?

Bernie: 35:35

Yeah, it's really it's really interesting. Um, because lately, one of the most fascinating changes I've seen lately, because kids, oh, you work with kids and they're so good with computers and all that stuff. Kids don't know how to use a computer. They're clueless when they sit down on a real computer because they've they're great with phones and they're great with tablets and they're great with Chromebooks. You give them an actual PC or actual map or Mac computer where files have to go somewhere, and the concept of, hey, that's on the network, that's local, that's on a server, that's in the cloud. No idea, you know. So I got to spend time going, okay, this is where the files are, and this is how, you know, because they're used to it. We mean we have to save, everything is auto-save, isn't it? Why would you have to save something? You know, the first time you get burned and you just lose, you know. Now there are autosave features. We do set them up to save every five minutes, but you can get a lot of stuff done in five minutes if you haven't control S, which my left hand does with it just without thinking about it. Um, so I'd say that's one of the most interesting trends lately is is that the kids don't know how to use a real computer. Um, that's interesting. The kids themselves, I think, you know, uh interesting. I mean, there's just saturated, I think some of even the production values, because they'll come over and they think, hey, we're gonna make YouTube videos, you know. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, there's a market for that, but um, you know, YouTube videos, you don't need to take a class for that. You know, you grab your phone and it looks like crap, and and you know, somebody gets hit somewhere and everybody laughs, and but that's not what we're doing here, you know. And and I love just the other day, one of my juniors, because we were talking about it. So we got to walk through the scene first. You actually have to come up, you have to actually do a shot blade and how are you gonna actually shoot this thing? He's like, oh, he's like, This is like work. I'm like, Yeah, you got it. I'm like, great. I said, come here. I said, I want you to tell the whole class what you just figured out. I said, because you just figured out that's exactly what this is. Because if it's not work, nobody's gonna pay you. If you're just screwing around with a camera, you know, you can put it on YouTube, maybe you'll get lucky, maybe you'll get some views and make a couple bucks, but I mean you're not gonna nobody's gonna pay you. Um so you know, the idea that they're they're saturated with media, but they don't necessarily like even my kids, my kids are 20 and 19, unless we we say, hey, come and watch this with us, they're not watching TV, they don't watch TV. They watch, you know, so even the idea of hey on a bigger screen, you know, and you know, the idea of shooting, you know, you know, you know, that drives me nuts. You know, everybody at our age is like, oh my gosh, that you how can you turn your phone that way? How can you shoot something that way? It tries because it's all it's so narcissistic, right? It's just you, right? You can't even see anything but you, you know. And uh, well, in a movie, you kind of need to see a whole world, right? You can't just um so getting them used to that, even the few first few things we shoot, you know. And I'm like, you're shooting on your phone, we're shooting. This is a digital cinema class, and they still will shoot this way because they just I'm like um, you know, attention spans sometimes are a little. God, if they could get, I mean, they've always been short when you're that young, but so I move quickly. I try and check we know, I try not to do anything for more than 20 minutes at a time. 20 minutes, and then we kind of change and we do something, you know. Um, so there's that. I kids are tired all the time because there's they're up, and I know maybe people kids always did this, but man, I've got kids, you gotta change the pace and keep because they fall asleep because they were up till 2 or 3 a.m. on YouTube or playing their video games, you know, and it's just like that's a that's a that's a struggle. Um sometimes the home structure Yeah, yeah. Sometimes the home structures are rough. You're dealing with kids and and and then once you get to know them, you really talk to them and you find it breaks your heart to find out what you're dealing with. You're going, I'm I'm I'm ticked this kid because he's doing acting like this and doing a knucklehead. Man, if I had to deal with what he's dealing with, um, you know, I don't think I don't know if that would be a huge priority for me either. Um, you know, learning shot composition. So there's There's that part of it too. I think some of the family breakdown um on that side is hard as a teacher to overcome. Um, and that's kind of sad. Um, but the kids but they'll really surprise you sometimes. I mean, there's good years and mostly good years. It's the rare occasion, you know, you get you get more than a handful of knuckleheads in a class, and it can really steer things in a bad direction. But most of the time people say with me, Oh my gosh, you work with teenagers, are you crazy? You must be miserable. And I'm like, no, not really. Because at least they have that excuse of, hey, they're teenagers are knuckleheads, and you go, come on. And there's you there's at least there's some hope. You know, you work with adults and they're knuckleheads. How much more can you do for them? It's so um, I've really been pleasantly surprised, and kids are kids and they're gonna be knuckleheads, and it's just making that connection and and and letting them know that hey, I'm I'm trying to help you, right? And a lot of times having all these guest speakers come and get that you know him, and wow, you know that part, and you brought that person in, and that wow, and they're saying the same thing that you've been saying. That's what I love. It's you know, you have some guest speaker come in and they're like, he was saying the same thing you said, and now this guy's saying the same things you've been saying, and now this guy's saying the same thing you've been saying. I'm like, you know, and that that that helps too.

TMac: 41:19

It's like parenting, it comes from somebody else. It must be true.

Bernie: 41:24

My dad was an idiot after all. That Mark Twain was like, you know, when I was 18, my dad was such an idiot. By the time I was 25, I was amazed how much he learned, you know.

TMac: 41:36

So they you are correct, they have changed. And we had even within I had instruction time, lab time, and it was amazing if you raise the you know gradually raise your expectation and raise the bar a little bit. Um, the good stuff that that comes back. And it's funny, my cell was always 90% of you are not gonna pursue media. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, but here's my here's my pitch. This course is gonna force you to work with other people. You're spending a lot of time doing this and you're isolated. This is going to make you um work with other people, which I don't care what you're gonna go into, it's gonna be a valuable skill at the end of the day.

Bernie: 42:32

Right. The teamwork, the communication, the organization, yeah, it translates. And that's something I'll tell parents too, because parents be like, you know, I don't know, you know, going to get hearts. I want them to have a real job. I'm like, okay. Um, you know, a lot of things we do will translate into real jobs, and they will also um, you know, a lot of times, like, hey, I want to be a I went to be a teacher, but I got my job because I had this media background. You know, you're going to be a salesperson somewhere, but whoa, you know how to take pictures too. And we need we're selling these products. We need somebody to take pictures of these things or videos, or I mean, you know, there's so much you want to own your, you know, you're gonna be a small business owner, you better know how to take some decent pictures and some videos. You got to do your own marketing, you got to do the social media stuff as it goes.

TMac: 43:16

All right, last two questions. Um I always tell people that for me, um as much as I loved uh my profession and being a cameraman and shooting sports and shooting golf, and you name it, there is something about teaching in terms of the benefits um that was way better than the professional world. How compared to working in the industry and all the craziness, how does teaching make you feel?

Bernie: 43:53

And you know what it is? It's kind of like when you get married. Being married forces you to be a better person, it forces you to recognize issues in yourself that you need to work on. And being a teacher, for you know, sometimes you get it and you look in the look in the mirror and you go, you know, I didn't handle that too well. And I lost my patience. And I, and man, it really makes you a better human being being a teacher. Whereas, you know, if you're some niche profession or something like that, you can get away with your bad habits, you can get away with being a jerk sometimes. Um, but you know, as a teacher, you all suddenly that phone rings and it's a parent, you gotta go, yeah, sorry about that. You know, so I think I I find it rewarding because it really has, and I'm still not there. It's still a journey, you know. Um, but I think it's really made me be a better human being. Um, because you gotta have empathy, you gotta have compassion. Um, but at the same time, you gotta you gotta be structured and sometimes sometimes you gotta know when to just kick the kid in the butt, and sometimes you gotta give him tough love. And I'll even say it, it's a tough love moment. Brace yourself, tough love's coming, and then you give it to them, you know? Um, because they have to that's one of the other things that's kind of changed about kids is they they you give them feedback, man, and they're they're crushed. And it's just like, dude, so you screwed up and then tomorrow you're gonna try it again, you know. So um, so that being able to um being able to just continue to push yourself. And I think that's one of the things that makes teaching excited because the kids do kind of change, and I get a little older and I start to recognize, okay, I'm being a little curmudgeony here, and I've been, you know, I was able to break out the I've been doing this, I've been doing this for longer than you've been alive. You know, kid doesn't care. You know, what difference does that make? You still like it.

TMac: 45:48

It makes you an old geezer.

Bernie: 45:50

Yeah, all it does is make me old. So um, I that's what I love about teaching, is it forces you to kind of really examine yourself and forces you to be a decent human being, you know.

TMac: 46:02

Absolutely. All right, last question. Uh what is your advice? And I'm sure you've done this with your seniors, but how do you advise your seniors on the following? What they need to know if they really want to get a job in this business. Um, and I'm sure you talk about hard skills and soft skills. So so tell me, how do you advise your seniors who say, you know, Mr. VT, I uh I want to work in this business. What do you tell them they need to know and and and should be working on starting, you know, now?

Bernie: 46:47

Yeah, I think the biggest thing I tell kids, you're gonna get that foot in the door, you're gonna get that opportunity job, job shadow, internship, something like that, some some menial kind of helping out kind of thing. And here's what you need to do. Do not try to impress them with what you know. Impress them with how eager you are to learn. That was the thing that aggravated me when I was working at the radio station. We get these interns in and they were telling us how to, they kept trying to tell us how to do our job, and it would be just like, go away, go away. That's not why you're here. You're not here to tell me how to do this, you're here to see how I do it. And it's fine, you can disagree, but number one, you probably shouldn't even tell me. Um, and if you do, you better do it respectfully, but just soak it in, right? And so impress me by how eager you are to learn. Um, because that was the biggest problem. And I run into people, um, and that's one of the nice things about working in the career center. I've had places come to me and say, you know what, we love taking interns from you because the kids don't walk in thinking like they know everything. And that's kind of what we've been running in with some of our college interns is hey, I've been to four years of college, I know everything, you know, and they come in and just like kid, cut it out. You know, you don't know everything, stop acting like you do. Um, so that's the biggest thing. And the other thing I tell you, you just got to be driven. I mean, man, it's it's hard. Like I, you know, I would work until midnight, sleeping for three hours on a floor and then working again at a TV station. Those first few years are gonna be tough. You hang in if you really want to do this, you're doing it because you don't have any choice not to. You feel like you have to. If you can't, if you don't do this, you're gonna be miserable. That's why you do this. You do it because you have to, because who else would do this? You know, because you want to tell stories, right? And that's what it's really about is telling stories. And there's something sacred about telling stories. I mean, sharing and telling stories, I mean, any of your sacred tests, the Bible, that's what it is. It's a collection of stories, right? To try and help us find meaning in this here. And wow, here we are. How do we get here? What the heck's going on, you know? And and by telling stories and sharing our stories with one another, trying to make sense of this whole thing. So I think you tell kids, hey, you do this because you have a story to tell, or because you want, probably more importantly, to help other people tell their stories. And that's what drives you. And if you're just kind of like, eh, you know, this might be kind of neat to do, I think it might be fun, then you need to do something else.

TMac: 49:22

Bernie, I can't thank you enough to being a part of the project. Keep teaching on, my friend. Good luck in uh future endeavors. Thanks for helping out.

Bernie: 49:32

Great, it was so fun talking to you and great to kick it around with a fellow Golden Flasher there. Just fun. I can't believe it's uh that went that went fast. It was fun. Thank you for having me. Take it easy. Take care.

TMac: 49:50

Thanks again to media arts teacher Bernie Van Tilberg. You can see his students' fantastic work at cvccwork.edu slash mediaarts. Looking for gear or a cool photography t-shirt? You can trick out your kit and your wardrobe in the ZoomwithOur Feet shop. Use our affiliate links from SmallRig, Adorama, and Printeak. Remember, anytime you make a purchase using our links, we may get a small commission that doesn't affect the price of your item. The Zoom With Our Feet Podcast is a production of TV Commando Media. Our theme music is by Novembers and their funky groove Cloud 10. Be sure to take a peek at the other great guests we've had on the Zoom pod at zoomwithourfeet.com slash podcast or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Until next time, if you want to make a difference in media, media pros, teach.