The Beauty of Knowledge

#3 From Addiction to Self-Trust | Matt Tibbs on Sobriety, Healing & Finding His Way Back

• Hayley Simpson

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From Addiction to Self-Trust | Matt Tibbs on Recovery, Healing & Finding His Way Back

In this episode of The Beauty of Knowledge Podcast, I sit down with Matt Tibbs - former Army Physical Training Instructor, fitness coach, business owner and someone who has walked through addiction, PTSD, burnout and profound personal transformation.

We explore Matt's journey from joining the Army at 16, navigating addiction and recovery, becoming three and a half years sober, and the lessons he has learned through healing, spirituality, relationships and self-discovery.

This is an honest conversation about resilience, emotional healing, self-trust and finding your way back to yourself.

✨ In this episode we discuss:

• Growing up with undiagnosed ADHD
• Joining the Army at 16
• Life after the military
• Addiction and recovery
• PTSD and emotional healing
• Why fitness can become another form of escape
• Learning to feel emotions instead of avoiding them
• Sobriety and self-trust
• Plant medicine and personal transformation
• Relationships, resilience and purpose

💛 Key Takeaways

• Recovery starts when we stop running from ourselves
• Self-trust changes everything
• Emotions are messages, not problems
• Healing isn't linear
• The hardest chapters often become our greatest teachers

Connect with Matt:

Website
https://tibbscoaching.com/

Instagram
https://instagram.com/tibbscoaching

Facebook
https://facebook.com/tibbscoaching

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/tibbscps/

Connect with Hayley:

Website
https://hayleysimpson.com

Instagram
https://instagram.com/itshayleysimpson

If this episode resonates with you, please follow, share and leave a review. It helps these conversations reach more people who may need them.

All my love,

Hayley x

Host of The Beauty of Knowledge Podcast

If you'd like to join the conversation - drop me a text here.

SPEAKER_03

Hello and welcome back to the Beauty of Knowledge podcast. Today I'm joined by Matt Tibbs, an ex-Army physical training instructor, a fitness coach, business owner, and someone who's walked through addiction, PTSD, burnout, and some profound personal transformations. So today we're going to explore the beauty of knowledge, the things that Matt's learnt along the way, and he's going to tell us about his transformations, his journey, and I can't wait to have this conversation. So, hello Matt. How are you?

SPEAKER_00

How are you doing, Hayley? Great to see you. Yeah, great to be here.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you so much for joining me today. So, what was young Matt like before all of this I've just described?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, young Matt. Um, I think back then we didn't know we had ADHD, did we? And you know, I was I was a wild child, you know. I my mum and dad split up when I was six. My dad lived in the country, and I just have adventures in the garden. You know, I liked making camps and digging holes and yeah, just uh yeah, building swings in trees. I always had that sort of adventure, sort of yeah, just just way of being really. I'm told I was quite well behaved, but just in cheek, but cheeky, you know, just cheeky. And but yeah, I had a I had a great childhood as far as I remember anyway.

SPEAKER_03

So growing up, did you sort of know you wanted to get into fitness, or did you feel it was just something that you enjoyed as you got older?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, do you know what? I think it was it was coming towards the end of the school, and I didn't really have a plan to what I was gonna do. I wasn't very academic, but I liked training. At that time, I'd already, you know, got into quite a few sports, and one of the ones was Thai boxing, martial arts, and I used to run there, train, run back, and I was speaking to a friend, and he was just like talking about this, you know, joining the army, and I was like, that sounds like a great idea. And one day I just decided to well, like before that, actually, just to go a bit a little bit back, I used to work with one of my mum's friends that was also in the army, and uh he used to tell me all these stories, and then I had the friend that told me about it, and one day I just took myself up out of school, didn't go to school, and I went to the careers office and just started the process really. And before you know it, I was having an interview, and next thing you know, I was doing the test, and I was in, you know, I was in the army at age 16 years of age.

SPEAKER_03

That's back in the days we went to the careers advisor at school. Yeah, I remember having that chat. It was like you won't amount to much, you're not very good at this. So, yeah, I remember that chat.

SPEAKER_00

I was terrible at school, like I you know, I couldn't sit still, I wanted to leave, I turned up late, I'd leave school early. I just I was a rule unto myself, you know. I just did what I wanted when I wanted, and but you know, the army just changed all of that really. It gave me, you know, a purpose. I felt part of something that I was probably craving and didn't realise it at the time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think at school, especially it's just not the right environment for a lot of children. And I feel I feel like there's a much more awareness around it now. Um I don't know how old you are, but grow up when I grew up, it wasn't really it wasn't really a thing, was it? It sounds like we're similar age, and it was like you were just like, Oh, they're the naughty kids, they're the whatever kids. So, yeah, I think when you've got that creativity and that, you know, you like being outside and adventurous, that's not doesn't fit in an academic school environment, does it at all?

SPEAKER_00

And everyone learns differently, and I just can't sit still in a classroom, and like you said, they're they're the schools are geared for it now, you know, and there's a lot of help and support around people to help them, you know, with activities and different ways of learning, but it just didn't exist then, so I found it just very, very tough, like I said, to sit to sit still, to to concentrate. You know, I just I'd fall asleep. I remember doing my GCSEs. I I went in, I just done them as quickly as I could, and I fell asleep on the desk. I had no interest in school whatsoever. I really, really, really struggled if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_03

And I feel like so. What happened? So you 16, you're going into the army. What I bet your mates were like, Oh my god, what's what's he's mad?

SPEAKER_00

It was crazy because at the time before I joined the army, I'd started to smoke cannabis at school, and it was just what everyone was doing. And one day I just said, I'm stopping, I'm joining the army, and everyone was like, What? Like, because if it was my house where we'd all just sit round in the garage, and you know, but I remember just uh yeah, just started running and just had such a focus of what I wanted to do, and nothing, nothing could stop me, you know. That was it. I'd made my decision um and I went running with it.

SPEAKER_03

Brilliant, that's so good. So, what so fast forward? So, obviously, how long were you in the army for?

SPEAKER_00

I did five years, so I got I went in at 16 and got out when I was 21.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm. And what happened after that?

SPEAKER_00

I really struggled when I got out. I think the age between 16 and 21, uh, in a lot of ways you grow up, obviously, carrying live rounds in Kosovo at 17. It wasn't a war zone, but I was in a combat environment, and then you know, coming from that and having so much adrenaline and physical and the training, the exercises we did, the places we travelled, the camaraderie, the lads, and just getting out. And I just really struggled. I found it really difficult to settle into what we call what is a normal life, but you know, um, in terms of you know, have all of a sudden I had to pay bills, I had to pay for the dentist, which I'd never had to do in the army. I was I was looked after, I got my food paid for but in the army, I got my accommodation paid for. So yeah, you know, and and I was like, you know, I I came out and I got some half decent jobs and made money, but I really mentally was dying inside because something was missing, you know, and I've I've I've just been searching my whole life and I've never felt I've never felt like a normal, you know, I've always felt like a sh, you know, an odd sheep, you know, in in in her, you know, yeah, yeah. And and not felt like I fitted in and on and but I'm I'm grateful that you know I've had had the opportunity to to learn more about myself because I think that's what triggers the growth. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

And also being in the being doing a physical training part, because I know someone else that did that, you still have to go on tour, you're still part of the you know, you're still very I was a soldier first, yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah. So you can't that's normally how people transition, don't they? Then they take a role.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I guess for you, it's like you had that family as well. It's like a family unit, isn't it? It it very much, it very much was so.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, these guys now that you know I'm 43 by the way, and and my my my friends, my army friends that I haven't seen for 20 odd years, you know, it would be just like we're we'd never seen each other, and that's a sign of a real good friend. The time we spent with each other, the things that we went through, the things we experienced together, um, it sort of fast tracks a relationship because you're in such close contact with with them. So trying to replicate that outside of the army for me was difficult. So I've just ever since really up until like the last couple of years struggled with relationships, struggled to stick at anything really. The only thing I've really stuck at with is is this my you know my my coaching business, and I've had that since 2009. But you know, before that, I'd done every job under the sun. Yeah, you know, like I was an estate agent, I was doing demolition, I was just flying about, I just couldn't couldn't stick at one thing, wasn't sure what I wanted to do. But you know, and and I guess what I went back to was what I know because that's what when I left the army. Um I guess sort of going back a bit when I first got out, I was chasing money, you know, because I had well by the way, I had my first son at uh 20 years of age just before I got out of the army. So I also feel like I grew up way too quickly, if that makes sense, you know, or had to had to before I'd even experience life myself, because like I said, I was institutionalized in in some respects in the army for five years, and I hadn't had that experience that the average person had had, and yeah, I just you know came out, had a son early, had to earn money, you know, took a stopped doing what I loved to you know to to earn money and then sort of going away from your goals, if that makes sense. So when I when I did set up my coaching business, you know, I was back on doing what I love and everything else, and uh and with that comes its challenges because it doesn't always pay straight away. So I've you know it was it was a tough journey to stick out, really.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, any running any business and being self-employed is is much tougher than I I think a lot of people realise. Where where would you say that it all started to go a bit wrong for you? Because you you said, Oh, you know, when you came out, you struggled. Was that because you become a dad so young, or was that because obviously you've gone from that institutional kind of environment, which I totally understand? And then you're finding your way in the world as well as becoming a father, and so it must have been quite a lot. But when would you say you felt like looking back now, you feel like actually things started to go a bit off track?

SPEAKER_00

I think I've always had a problem with drinking drugs, you know, since the army. I I could never go and have one as an example. We never went out for one, it would end up, you know, blackout drinking and and that drinking culture, and it it was acceptable.

SPEAKER_03

It's huge in the army, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you know, it was very normal.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I I was quite shocked when I found that out. Because you think like most most people that go into the army, they're so fit, you know, they train hard and they're like, you know, they're like athletes, you know, and then it's like but they drink, and I I always found that mad actually, but yeah, it's I guess it's it's just part of that social part and that bonding as well, isn't it? So yeah, so I hear you, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and you know, one of my friends that I went back to or met, he was local to me, and you know, he introduced me to to a drug that became my drug of choice, and it just got it became you know, like like anyone. By the way, I'm c I'm three and a half years clean and sober, so now um and yeah, and and so I thank you so much, you know, and yeah, and and you know what? I don't I think when I first you know, I used to wear it like a badge of honour, but now I'm just like it's just a way of life, like I'm just grateful. But I I you know I had an addictive personality, I can like I just wanted more of everything, more money, more this, more that, more you know, more drink. I just didn't know when to stop. And I I'm I think over the years, like leading from like you know, getting out of the army until now, just 20 odd years, right? I learned how to manage it, obviously, you know, really into my fitness. So there would be a lot of periods where I just stop. I was I was doing a lot of tire boxing, so I'd get ready for a fight, that would be great because that would give me like two, three months of getting clean. But really, it when I look back, I was still using I was using fitness to escape. So everything I've done, uh, when I look back at it, it's the same stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, it's just seen as it more acceptable because it's it's fitness, so it's like a it's almost like a healthy addiction, people would call it, but actually, it's still the brain is still doing the same things, it's still the addiction is still there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, it took me a long time to and and you know I had to have some consequences, unfortunately, to to get to this place. But I don't know if the pivotal points was in my life, and I had a I had a scaffolding accent. Sorry, you can see my little finger.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I was working with uh doing scaffolding on the side, and these guys they were turning up to work drunk, and I wasn't actually drinking at the time, but he dropped a pole on me, ended up hitting my shoulder. Anyway, cut a long story short, I fell off, chopped my finger off. And interestingly, I was in a I was in a hospital um and there was this guy that I just started talking to, and he was in the corner bed, and I was like middle row, and uh he was like talking to me, and he gave me this book and he said, Oh, I think you should read this, like he'd really enjoy it. Just met this guy. Anyway, it's called uh Um A New Earth by Eckhart Toll, right? So I was like, This is really like long, and I started like looking at and I was like, Oh cheers, mate. Anyway, the next morning something possessed me. I woke up and I was like, Oh, some of this is actually sinking in quite anyway. I went to go and find the guy. Like, where is I was like, he wasn't there. I thought he sort of obviously gone. I was like, where's that guy going? He goes, What guy? And I said, There was a guy in the corner, you know, he'd come off his motorbike, he didn't know what was they didn't know what I was talking about, and I was like, but he's giving me this book. They were like, There's no there's been no one in there for weeks, and I was just like, What? And had this physical book, and that was, I believe, my first spiritual experience for me, because that sent me on a different path. Literally, a couple of months after that, I booked a uh flight to Thailand, went and lived with monks, done silent retreats, you know, and I this guy didn't exist. I know it sounds cra it sounds insane, right? But I I I remember get given this, I had the physical book, and they couldn't remember. But either way, whether they didn't remember he was there or not, I still got this book, and that was a gift, you know, from the divine or mother nature or God or whatever, whatever you want to call it, and that just sent me off on a path, and you know, I fell off that path a lot of times, and don't get me wrong, it was never it was never like Matt's like on a spiritual path, let's go, go, go, go.

SPEAKER_01

It doesn't work like that, does it?

SPEAKER_00

No, it was like you know, it's like yeah, I've had it's it's been wild, wild, wild, wild. Um, and you know, that that was I believe the first time, and like you know, living with monks and and like I said, doing a silent silent retreat, that was incredible, and that was back in 2009, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Wow, how long did you do that for? How long was the retreat?

SPEAKER_00

Six days, six days, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Six days silent, silent, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, yeah, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03

That makes me think very inward, yeah. I can imagine it.

SPEAKER_00

But you weren't you weren't even allowed to look at anyone, you know, it's just like um anyway. You know, I I was training out there after that. I spent a month out there, and I guess what I thought at the time I'd found myself, and I was healing myself, and all was well. But as soon as that that event had finished, like I was training for a tie boxing fight, as soon as anything like that, as soon as I got to that training point, then I just you know, I would the fuck it button and off I went again, and then round in a circle of um drinking consequences, you know, and that went on up until I was, you know, like I said, three and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_03

So what did you what do you think? Because I talk to a lot of people who I know a lot of people that have come out of addiction, that have are struggling with addiction, and I understand it quite well. What would you say that most people like misunderstand about addiction?

SPEAKER_00

I believe there's a lot of I did I did. I was like, you've all you've always got a choice, you don't have to drink, you can stop when you like. I just think that people don't understand how difficult it can be. Uh, and and dealing with I don't know, in brackets, a mindset that is is that way inclined, you know. We can't say no, we don't know when to stop. It's a spiritual like malady that just you know, there's a voice without you know how to describe it. It's like I often think a lot of the time it was when everything was in a good place. I was like, Oh, I deserve this, I'm gonna have a drink, you know, and and and and and and the thing is I'd have the best intentions, I'll go out for a couple, and then you know, I'd be gone for a couple of days and things like that, you know. Yeah, uh before you know, hanging around in someone's kitchen until 5 a.m. when you know the birds are seeing that sort of stuff, you know. Um, and but to a certain extent it was normalized a little bit as well, because that was kind of socially acceptable. Um, but you were hiding the fact that the wheels were falling off behind closed doors, really.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like that will resonate with so many people, Matt. Because alcohol is so socially accepted, and believe me, I've been in plenty of after parties at five, six, seven, eight, nine, twelve o'clock the next day, you know, it's like don't want the party to end. And I feel like even my friends that have struggled with addiction, it's like, oh, but it's my birthday and I want to go and party, and it'll just be one or two. And that's the thing, and like you were saying, addiction isn't just you know, we look at it with alcohol is quite socially accepted, other drugs maybe not, and then also Jim is like, oh well, it's a healthy addiction, so it's fine, you're going running every day, or you're you know, still the brain is reacting, normally it's from a trauma or some something it's there's a trigger there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's an obsession, it becomes an obsession as well, and and what you're doing essentially is escaping, yeah. You know, so I'd you know, just something's happened, right? Great, go and work out, but then you're not dealing with what's actually happened, you know. I I've I it took me a long time to to actually feel my emotions. That was one of my biggest struggles, yeah. To actually let them let myself feel, let them go, let them flow like flow through me. And it's okay to be like I know sorry that word, it's okay to be okay, but it's okay to just be sad for a couple of days, but I'd stop myself being sad because I'd be like, I need to go to the gym, I need to get up and do this and have a cold shower, and I'm fine, I'm good. How are you? Yeah, I'm fine, you know. No, I was dying inside.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I feel like that's a lot of our generation, yeah. And it's like, oh, you just get on with it, don't you? You just get on with it. And I I really believe that once we can understand and learn that emotions are just energy emotion that's got to move through the body and come out. But it's like we still like oh, but that's a negative emotion. I can't be angry or I can't be sad or I can't be frustrated. And it's like, no, actually, you can be, because it will pass. Like if you just lean into that and go, Well, why do I feel like that? Where is it in my body? Where do I feel it? Then you can kind of move it out of your body in a way that works for you, dancing, sitting with that feeling, journaling. And that's a skill that we're not taught. So it's like how how we get there because we're forced to get there normally.

SPEAKER_00

I think, I think so. I I like I you know, I use my brother as an example. It just seems like he's just smooshed through life, you know. He's he just he just gets life, he's always had a good job, he's just got married, he's going to New York, and he's just okay, it doesn't feel like he's had any trauma, he's probably got his own stuff, but the ri the reason I'm saying that is just because like you know, that's not the case like with me. It's like there has been things that have happened, there has been traumas, there's things from my childhood, there's things from the army. So at least I can sort of I think before you said like making it, oh, it's because of this, it's because of that. When actually like real healing is like not using it as an excuse. That's the real healing, isn't it? It's when you you can move through it and and accept accept accept it and not be a victim.

SPEAKER_03

It's okay to talk about it and say these things happen. What stunts our growth is by staying in that victim mentality of but this happened to me and this happened to me, and that takes a lot of self-work, and we have to look at ourselves and go, but why do I feel like that? And why am I reacting like that? And you know, I mean, for you, you've overcome so many complex things, like even PTSD is such a complex thing. It's like, do you ever really get over that? It's like you just find a way to move forward to accept acceptance. Tell me a bit more about PTSD, because when did you because I think with PTSD, so my ex-partner had complex PTSD? He was in the army, he was worked for London Fire Brigade, yeah, saw a lot of things, and I would always be trying to encourage him to get support for it, but I saw I could could see the damage that it was causing, and he'd just bury it down. No, I'm fine, I'm fine, you know, I'll go gym, and and then it's like, you know, when for you was that moment where you realised you can't just keep pushing through that?

SPEAKER_00

It's a really good question. Um I think after having some serious consequences, you know, having having too much to drink one night at an event where I shouldn't have been drinking, where it wasn't really okay to do that, and me disappearing for a couple of days, having consequences, hurting people's feelings. And I'm like, right, yeah, I need to look at this because because it's not not just affecting me, it's affecting the people that I that love and care about me around me, and I'm gonna lose everything, you know. And I did, unfortunately. I did. And yeah, if I if I'm honest with myself, you know, that is the reason through addiction um that I lost my relationship with my last partner, which which I'm grateful to say that we are back together now. And we got we had three years apart, but we had to be apart to grow. Yeah, you know, and it was the most beautiful thing that we could honour ourselves, and it was hard and it was messy, and not for the first year though, because I decided to just I'm fine and I was escaping, went into another situation, just again using putting my feelings to one side, and it wasn't until that went wrong, that situation, and then it all hit me at once, and I would say my most my biggest transformation has been literally the last year and a half, two years, and that's when I started, yeah, seeking other ways. You know, I've had the therapy, fitness keeps a lot of stuff down. You know, if you're fit and healthy, then it can life's better, isn't it? You know, and then so I started to look for other ways, and I think that's the biggest transformation I've had.

SPEAKER_03

I'm really excited to talk to you about that. So um probably I'd say how we connected the most because we both have had experiences with sitting with the mother plant, ayahuasca.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Um I don't know about you, but I was just called. I kept being called for years and years and years to sit with this plant, and I I nothing aligned for me. I was like, nothing felt right. And then I just came across this someone basically followed me on Instagram and I looked at what she was up to, and she was going to do ayahuasca, and I was like, oh. So I started looking into who she's doing it with, and then the guy rang me, and I was like, Well, I can't afford to be there because it was in Brazil, it was a six-week programme, and I was like, I've just been working for someone that's not paid me for like six months. So I was like, I'll I'll maybe I'll sell my car. I said, I need to be there. It was the weirdest thing because I was like, he said, Come next year. So I had six months to get the money together, and he's like, if you want to be here, we'll make it happen. And I I just ended up, yeah, it just happened. I just ended up money came in, and then I got another job. So I ended up that was two years ago now, and then I think so. I I think that's how we kind of got talking more, obviously, about your journey. So, with you, like what were you searching for? Like, how did it present to you?

SPEAKER_00

Well, just to be just so just to give you a little bit before, tiny bit before, is like I'd I'd sat with mushrooms a couple of times and had profound experiences, just really felt just more clarity in my life, more direction, like I had the answers, and so it was a kind of gradual thing, you know. It just sort of like naturally, organically, as you know, it just happens organically. And and um what what triggered it was actually if I think it all it's all all connected, isn't it? All connected, you know. And a friend through the gym started talking about Cambo, and we were like, Oh, what's this? And like, so I booked onto that and I had an awesome experience in terms of like the result, it wasn't great, as you know. Those that don't know, it it could be pretty, you know, it's it's not they call it work for a reason, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so Cambo, Cambo is uh yeah, the frog frog secretion, yeah, and it tends to liver basically, so yeah, and it floods your body with you know peptides and it can heal so many different aspects of your life, it's great, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

So that's that's how it started. And I was on a I was on a stag deaf, my brother, and my brother introduced me to one of his friends, and he said, Oh, you do frog stuff, talk. And I was like, Hey man, he was like, he means Cambo, mate. We were just laughing it, and we just hit it off, and we were just blah blah blah blah blah chatting away. Next thing you know, he's telling me about his ayahuasca experience. So I'm like, Oh my god, wow, like you know, and I obviously I felt called for it before. I've spoken to a close friend of mine who'd done my with my mushrooms, and I was like, she'd already been to the jungle, she'd been to Peru, and I'd already like I know I'm gonna do it, but it'll call me. And in that moment, in town, and I was just like, I just knew there, and then I just knew, and I wanted to know more, and I listened to him, and it just sounds so beautiful what was going on, and I've shared it with you. So, you know, I I I kind of went and I I you know, I spoke to this guy, we had a deep conversation for about an hour and a half, you know, he built a relationship with me before I went down, you know, I met his family and his home, and you know, the way the setup, and it was just such a beautiful, but it just all happened like that within them, you know, within a few weeks. I was booked in, and let me tell you, life has been wild since so the guy you're talking about was your shaman, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03

Because it was like a men's you how many other men were in the ceremony with you?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, there was four of us. There was two men, including me and two women, so it's quite an intimate ceremony, as far as I know. Like I know there can be bigger circles, but it was a very intimate in his garden in beautiful Wales and um or Herefordshire, and and yeah, it was it was profound. I met some, you know, the minute I sh I showed up there, I felt like I was part of their family. I met the kids, the dogs are running around, and I'm looking around the house, they've got instruments everywhere, they're just fascinating people and and got to know them, and and yeah, went into I think we did Cambo first and then had some food, and then we went into ceremony in the evening, and I was thinking, like, you know, I don't feel like anything's happening, and then all of a sudden, and I was missing I had the most beautiful weekends, and and yeah, I don't know how much you want to hear about the actual experience, but it was you know about it, don't you?

SPEAKER_03

So it's quite hard to put into words, I feel uh some of it. Did you sit with the plant with ayahuasca one night or was it two nights?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was over two nights, it was a weekend experience. So on the Friday we arrived, meet and greet, done Cambo to cleanse, um, and then we went into ceremony that evening. Okay, well on Saturday we done breakfast, then we done a breath work session, went for a walk, and then went into our second ceremony as well. And we done a lot of happe and and everything in between, as you know, chinanga. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And then would you say, was it harder in ceremony or harder with integration?

SPEAKER_00

Or similar kind of uh I was very well prepared. I'd done my diet properly, you have to cleanse yourself before you go eat quite well. I've done everything right, you know. I've got God in my life, and I just had the most beautiful experience from start to finish in my ceremony, and I feel like I have since. There were tough moments that I moved through in that ceremony, um, but they were needed, and I knew that, and my body was ready for that, you know. As they say, you just got to let what happens happened, and I feel I let myself fully, fully set definitely the second night, fully, fully go. Um, and had the most profound experience. I mean, I was talking in tongues, I was speaking another language, which was absolutely insane. And I was like, and I was I like because I kept coming back in and I was like, I was talking to it, I was like, Oh my god, I I can't stop it. Like, and it was like how am I having a I was I can't even do it because it's just it's so wild.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm so mad.

SPEAKER_00

And I was speaking to it, I was speaking to it, I was sort of going, You do realize there's other people here, can you slow it down?

SPEAKER_03

And he was like wow, so I I find so when you went into ceremony, what was your intentions that you set?

SPEAKER_00

I basically went in and I just said, Look, show me what I need to see, feel, hear, um, let go of what I need to let go of, and show me what's next for me. You know, just show me, show me, show me. Um, I'm ready, I'm open, and I want to know the next steps in my life. And I'd love to. I did ask a few questions. There was a couple of directions I could have gone uh in terms of like the business and stuff, and everything got answered. I got some sad stuff as well, you know, something about a family member. I got I got told, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know how much detail you want to go into, but it was it's entirely up to you what you want to share because I know that things come up to show us what we need to integrate, what we need to lean into. Everything's a gift, I say, with plant medicine. What it shows us is always what we need to see, and it's for us in integration to work out what that means, what that's showing us, and it helps us to look at things that we've our shadows, and and I I hear what you're saying because every ceremony I did, there's light and dark, so you could be laughing and dancing, and then the next minute you're being sick and you're feeling awful, and and it's like that learning that there's this flow of journey of light and dark, and it's all beautiful, it's all amazing, it's all needed, and it's both sides of us. And I feel like that's that's the magic of it, and it's hard, and it's deep work, and it's hard, it's important because I I know we spoke before you went into ceremony because do you remember you're watching something on TV, and I and I said, Oh, I detox from any kind of things on I can't remember what you're watching on TV. It was like two weeks before your ceremony, and I said, Oh, I I kind of detox from any I don't watch the news or anything anyway, but I was like, I told my friends they can't talk to me about certain things, yeah. Watch anything negative, no news, no media, just meditating because the dieta is so strict, isn't it? A lot of people don't do that part.

SPEAKER_00

No, that's right. And you want to go in there with the clearest frame of mind that you possibly can, without, like you said, any noise, any outside influence, any negative um things, like especially news and watching things on Tablets.

SPEAKER_03

Silent films, just conversations, and I feel like you did all of that, so you got your you know when you go in ceremony that you're you've you're well prepared, and I feel like that's really important. So it's up to you what you want to share. I mean, I I obviously I think one big question I've got, and I I really want you to tell me more about your integration because I know a lot of people sit with the medicine and they don't get integration, and that's what I liked about the the guys that I did it with, and that's why the work I do when people go off on these journeys, I like to support with integration because I had that in my journey. And what's like one belief about yourself that you would say completely changed after sitting with that medicine?

SPEAKER_00

There was definitely some stuff around financials. I feel like I trusted myself over the last couple of years being clean and sober, and now I have a knowing of uh what's to come. I've been shown, and it's the word I would use is just faith. I have nothing to fear. We have nothing to fear. I've been shown that we literally have nothing to fear. Life is beautiful, it's how we perceive it, it's how we show up, it's what we watch, it's what we allow in our lives. You know, we have choices. I'm not saying it's easy, it definitely isn't. But you know, one of the things that profoundly happened was I literally saw uh two entities that have been in my body released through me being sick. I was actually um I was on the toilet and I was both ends, and I was like, I was wishing around my sick bucket, and I could see this entity, and I was like, what is that? And it's I started looking at it, and it looked like my tattoo, and it was like, look, a pep, like I've got this Chinese symbol on the back of my back, and it just means love, like it's my kids, and it just started moving, and like all of a sudden his legs sort of came on, it had this like body, and his eyes went red and it went like this, and I was like, Oh, and I'm getting all these I'm like, oh okay. I know it sounds wild, but I've got all these downloads coming, you know, information, what was in you, who put this so because I had a spell put on me, right? Uh and isn't it fascinating how I'm saying that? And I I just believe what I'm saying because I saw it, I know what happened, I was told who it was, why they did it. There's stuff that I've found out that I couldn't have possibly known, it was given to me. It was given to me, and yeah, I was set free from that moment. You are you have nothing to fit, you have your your financial abundance curse has been because I was blocked. You know, I had a martial arts academy that went wrong. I was blocked on so many things, and then since then, since I've left ceremony, financials, another job opportunity that's come up that was paying me three times what I was what I'm earning in my business at the moment. Um a a door, like I use this love, like this analogy. It's like, you know, and there's so many doors I've tried to get through, right? So there's like a door, and you're trying to get through it, you've done everything right, and you know, you've put the work in, and like you just want that thing and the other side of the door, but you just can't get through it, and it's fine because you always get directed somewhere else. And I believe I'm about to walk through a door that I never ever would have imagined. It wasn't in the story. I'm like, wow, I never knew that was gonna happen, you know. And it's exciting because I'm like, wow, you know, that was definitely not in the plan, and you know, the guess what I'm trying to say is if you uh rejection is redirection, you know. I I strongly wholeheartedly believe that. So if there's something that you're trying to force, I would say it's no good. Like, you know, I've learnt to just let go, let life flow. I know it sounds a bit let life go, flow, but it's true, you know, it's really is and and and you know, this other door is is just about to open, and and I haven't even told you about what it is because are you allowed to say or oh no, do you know why you don't have to say yeah, what it is, I'm holding on to it so because I believe in it, and you know what this is the other thing as well, is like you know, I don't I've got nothing to prove to anyone, you know, and that it's a very like that that was like integration, it's just like you know, I trust myself, I am enough, I'm worthy of love, you know, and and all these self-doubts about myself, about money, about what I deserve, and all that stuff, it's all been lifted since since my sub, you know, been in ceremony. And yeah, this door that's about to open, like if you'd have said that that would be how you make your whatever, you know, millions or whatever it might be, I'd be like, no, really, never would have had that written in a story. So, you know, I can't wait to tell you, but I can't wait to hear it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, because I was working with a business coach before I went to Brazil, and she was like, You're spinning your wheels, you're doing this, and I was a perfectionist, this has got to be perfect before I put it out. And I went in ceremony, and it was just like, I really want clarity, and it was like, No, no, no, none of this needs to be perfect. And since I came back and I just surrendered and went, Okay, I don't know what I'm just gonna put intentional action, I'm gonna see what comes my way. And I literally I was on Instagram like every day, making sure I'm posting now. I don't really do anything, and work comes to me, and the most amazing clients come to me, and the work I do I love, and it's just it does just show that when you can fully trust, and that's a lot of the work I do is about self-trust. Like when you can trust and know yourself and be centered and do that work that you go, okay, what's the worst that can happen? And you know what? You're talking about fear. I went into my third ceremony and I I said, Show me my fears, and I was petrified. I was crying before I went in, I was so ungrounded because I had quite a rough first two ceremonies. They were amazing, don't get me wrong, they were amazing.

SPEAKER_00

This is all on the same trip, though.

SPEAKER_03

This is the yeah, so I did a week, I did a week, so we sat with ayahuasca every other night, right? And my first night was around clarity in my business, second one was how do I move that forward? Third one, I was like, I want to know why I'm stuck. Why have I got these fears? And it was my calmest ceremony. I just laid there the whole time, I was so grounded, I wasn't sick once, and it just the message I got was fear is lack of knowledge. Anything that you fear is because you haven't lent into it and understood it. That's it. And I was like, Oh my god, why did I not realize this? And so now I literally have no fear, it's like fear of fear, and and I just yeah, so it's so magical, and and it puts us on this path of like, like I always used to, I work with lots of therapists and coaches, and my work, I love doing the inner work, and I always feel like I do it and I have breaks. But the last healer I was working with, she's like, I was saying to her, uh, what do I bring to these retreats and all these things I'm like wanting to do? And she's like, Well, you just bring you, and I was like, Oh yeah, but you know, when you're running all these identities, you're kind of like, Well, what does that mean? And it's just unlearning all of these things that we're we've programmed. So, yeah, I'm so excited for you. I know that you have put a lot of energy into your integration, which is you know, we can all go and sit with the medicine, and it can be a lovely experience, but if you don't sit and integrate your learnings or lean into it and understand it, it's just an experience. You're not you're not gonna progress and use that information that you get.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_03

Move your life forward, and that's what you've done. And I and I know there's been other things that have been amazing for you as well in your integration journey and and things that have come up for you. So if there's anything else you want to share, by all means, but also, yeah, no, no pressure to share anything. So I know that um, you know, if anyone listens to this, they'll see your journey, hopefully, and follow you.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, you know, if I didn't believe in God before I went in, I certainly do now. You know, I believe he was holding me the whole time, it was beautiful, you know, it truly was. And I was holding myself a lot and giving myself so much love, and it was just like, oh Matt, like, you know, you've got nothing to fear. You're loved, you're wanted, you know, you're needed. And and they were my words, and you know, all I can say about my experience is that I was I was aware that I was talking, but I was definitely not in control of my mouth. You know, it was it was it was the medicine that was speaking, it wasn't me, but it was me. But do you know what I mean? It's hard to explain, isn't it, to someone?

SPEAKER_03

But it's quite hard to put into words working with other medicine, you kind of come to realize that you're a vessel, your your human body is a vessel, yeah. And when I sat with ayahuasca, that's the one thing that my whole body was like limp, so I literally was channeling through this, but and I was like, Oh yeah, I'm just a vessel. And similar to you, I had something leave my throat, which was a voice activation because I wasn't using my voice, and I was had had wisdom to share, but I wasn't sharing it. And it sounds scary, and it sounds like quite when you talk about it how we speak about it, but actually in that moment, it's not scary, it's like a realization, it's like, oh, that was weird, but okay, I get it. I wasn't scared, it was more of a release. It's a very interesting. You had a similar kind of experience.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I had like I had like a snake call up next to me, and I was like, hi, mate, you're right, it's nice. And I went to like nudge it, like to fist bump in it, and it it went, it went, it went, it took, it literally looked at me, he went, I haven't got a fist. And he sort of knotted my hand. I was like, all right, cool. And every now and again I'd check if he was there, mate. You're all right, mate, how are you doing? I know it sounds wild, but you know that you know, if what I've got from that is just just move slowly, stay grounded. That was the download. You know, I had a spider crawl into my hand as well, big tranchler. I'm petrified. I fell through a shed when I was younger as a child.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Um that that that it was it was a locked shed as well. So when I fell through it, I couldn't get out because it was locked on the other side and it was petrifying because there were spiders everywhere, there was Webs and uh my mum had to sort of climb down and grab me out. What felt like you know forever, but it was probably only a couple of minutes. But you know, it's I was had a fear for spiders for my whole life, and this spider was just literally in my hand. It was like, You got you got no reason to be scared of me. I'm fine, like I'm not gonna hurt you, it's all fine. And and I know it sounds a bit crazy, but like I can pick up a spider now and put it on my make myself sound like a right old uh no, no, but I I think I I spiders are my reason. I don't like them, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

They're one thing I'm like, I can like out of my girlfriends, I can be the one that's like, here you go, get out, but yeah, I'm not overly keen. And that's the thing is facing those fears, and they might seem quite small, yeah, but actually they impact our lives in such big ways that it just shows us it's like okay, and with most plant medicine, and a lot of people I've worked with that have sat with mushrooms or any type of plant medicine, yeah, they find that they love themselves so deeply after they go through that journey. And I I've experienced that myself.

SPEAKER_00

I was literally hugging myself, loving myself, and you know, my partner, it was like she loves you, like she adores you, she thinks you're hilarious. Everyone in this room thinks you're funny, you're a good guy, like you know, like I was just like, Oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah, you know, and just and just felt I felt so much love. Like, you know, mother really held me in that ceremony, and I moved through what I needed to move through. There was a lot of there was a lot of crying as well, you know, something about a family member that I found out, and yeah, that's pretty, pretty tough. And I was looping a bit, and and I remember my you know, my shaman saying, if you ever feel like you're looping, come over, you know, come and get some some happa, some any some chananga, and sort of knocked me out of it, and then and I was you know, not back in the room, I was still gone, but you know, that that helps me because I'd learned a lesson, yeah, and I don't know about you, but I have I'm like like when I'm feeling like I've learned enough from that, I'm like, yeah, I get it, all right. Come on, can we move on to the next thing, please? And I'm literally saying, I'm like, yeah, yeah, done. That was my experience with mushrooms actually. I remember like it was like a like a film like come in, and I was like, Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, right, I'm getting this, I understand what I need to learn from this. Yeah, move on. And and like screen was changing, and sometimes it would stay, I'd be like, Okay, yeah, I get it, I get it. Move on, come on, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_03

You know, yeah, but yeah, I totally, I totally get that. I I really do, and I I I feel like so. Since you had that experience, have you kept that? Because you know, a lot of us have this negative self-talk, so we have this voice in our head, and you know, a lot of people name it. I just feel when you do plant medicine and you've got that relationship with it, especially for myself, that self-talk is so kind. I am I that voice is so kind, it's like, oh, you've got this, Haley. Like, don't worry, like it's all good. Like that used to be so negative, and like since working with plants, like I'm so compassionate and kind to myself, yeah, that it's like, yeah, I it's just transformed that community for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because you're you're aware that the voices in your your heads, like, yeah, that can be your subconscious something to tell you, but you can also it can also be negative, like actually, as you've just said, and it's it's learning how to to get to to move through that and and it's a thought, it's just it's just a it's just a and I think meditation meditation helps you with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it's like just let it go. And I feel people get stuck in loops because that self-talk is repetitive and negative, and it's learning to control that as well. And no, it's just a thought, it doesn't have to be reality. Absolutely I love that that that was that happened for you, and and you yeah, you came out of there and you you got a lot from it. So, what's next for you then?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, just like I said, I'm I'm I'm on this uh journey. Um, I also do close protection, counter-terrorism stuff in town, and this job came up basically the last literally a few weeks after ceremony. Um, like I said, that a triple what I was earning, and what it's allowed me to do actually is build some structure within my existing business. So I'm not actually there at the moment, but I've got coaches doing things for me, and that's forced me to up level with my business because, like I've heard before, it's like you don't have a business if you can't leave it, you know, you're if you're too inside it. So it's it's been amazing to get some structure within that, and I don't believe I'd have got there to that place had it not been for the plant medicine. Um, I've been able to I'm managing you know a group of people again, and I'm still doing this stuff, which is amazing, and then I've got the other the other doorway that's gonna open as well, and and it's all been since ceremony, and it's because I've had that financial block for me. So a lot of mine was you know, I don't know how, or you know, I I can't fathom how or why, because the truth is I hadn't thought about that situation for years. The depth, and and I remember actually I had been to an Indian astrologist, and they did say that I had something inside me and it would cost this much, and then they need to pray for me for days, and and I was just like I felt like I was being ripped off at the time, so I kind of parked it and and I believed in it, but there was something just felt icky about it, but I didn't like like um and and now it's been released. It's and if like I said, the stuff that I found out about that situation who put the curse on me I would never have known that. It was the plants that showed me.

SPEAKER_03

Showed you, yeah. So you can make sense of it all as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so that's the biggest thing really I would say that's happened is the you know, the tr the having trust and faith that I can do because I've you know, I've just been blocked so many times, yeah, and now that's been released, but that's my journey, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Um yeah, and how amazing to work on a business and not in it. I mean, that's that's amazing. You created a legacy, and if you can work on it and go and use your because your energy is better spent elsewhere now because this is your passion, and whatever's coming up for you is the right sounds like the right path for you, but it doesn't mean you have to you've got something amazing, so you can still have that and have something else.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's interesting, it's interesting because my partner's trying to get rid of corporate life and go down a spiritual route, and all of a sudden I've gone from like not the spiritual, but like the you know, like the job you love and you don't feel like you're at work, and then I've I've kind of gone back into corporate a bit in terms of the the the what I'm actually doing with my job at the moment, um, because I'm looking after whatever it is, and sorry, I'm being a bit vague here, but okay, yeah, yeah. So what I'm trying to say is but uh I'm gonna that's that's still there as well, and I still love what I do over there as well. But now I'm benefiting from more money, still helping people, still growing, and then I've got this other door that's gonna open as well, so it's just yeah, life couldn't be better, really exactly.

SPEAKER_03

And having having income from lots of different streams is definitely the way to go. It's like when we were at school, it's like, well, what are you gonna do with your life? And you're like, Well, I don't know, but it's like the what the jobs I've done and the work I've done, it's like you know what, I've got income that comes from lots of different things, and I don't feel like I work because I enjoy everything that I do, and I've created that life for myself. Yes. I worked in corporate for years, I worked in Tesco head office for like 10 years. I worked for the CEO, I used to do events, and I see people they're like, that was many lives ago, and I feel like life isn't straight, it's not linear, it's like you might do this and that, and nothing has to be permanent. And I think when we're in school, it's like you think you've got to do this career and do it forever. Whereas actually, you can do whatever you want at any time, you can learn a new skill, you can try a new thing, and even being in corporate, when I set up a consultancy, me and my friend called ourselves the conscious consultants, and we were like we were like corporate hippies basically, and we were like getting people meditating and going into businesses, and it's like, do you know what? Just do whatever lights you up, and I can tell what's coming for you is lighting you up.

SPEAKER_00

So I'm I'm really excited to oh, it's just not it's just not not written, you know.

SPEAKER_03

But even just like your relationships and everything, like when when we go through these journeys, it just makes every element, all the elements of our lives, money, relationships, work, health, it all comes together, doesn't it? Once once you can kind of see, yeah, you can bring it all together, and that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

The relationship stuff has been incredible as well. That is definitely worth talking about because on my first couple of mushroom experiences, I was shown that like Charlotte was my partner that I'm now you know back with. I kind of got this vision that she was on a ship and out at sea, like you know, at the end of the butt like a ship like this. And it was like I've got the vision of like she may come back to shore, but at the moment she's out doing her thing and she's like helping people and doing this and everything else. So that gave me some hope because oh, because I saw some other stuff like with relationships or past that were like cross move, like they were gone, you know, and then that was open, and that was my experience, actually. If I'm honest with you, the plant showed me, I was like, oh, okay, that's okay, that's that's possible, and that gave me some hope and faith and trust, and then it sort of bounced from there. But what I wanted to just quickly say was my relationships are so much better now because of them. Um my relationships are so stronger. I feel like I just look at you know my kids differently, although I've always loved and adored my kids. My relationships with Charlotte in general just feels like more loving, more understanding, and more empathy, more time, making effort. Um, and again, it wasn't that it was awful, but it's just accelerated to another level, which I just I never, you know, we broke up for three years, and I believe the plants allowed me and showed me what I needed to heal, see, do in my life to be the better version that she deserved that we needed, and along that journey, she went off and done her own bits and pieces, you know, and and had her own experience, spiritual experiences.

SPEAKER_03

So that's amazing. Because you know, another conversation I think maybe we could have is maybe about masculinity because I think like so many guys I think definitely resonate with everything that you've said and may not be ready for the plant journey, but I do feel like there's and I'm sure you've helped people in your coaching because you know, people show up for personal training, but they're probably also looking for other you probably see, yeah, you've come here for fitness, but you actually are looking for something else as well, you know, and you can kind of see that from the work you do. So I feel like that's you're you've clearly built an amazing community and you're doing amazing work. I'm just so excited to hear your next chapter. Before you go, can I just ask you a couple of questions just to wrap it up? Is that okay?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So the version of you, if you go back, that was really struggling in addiction. What's the piece of knowledge you would give to that version of yourself for with the wisdom you've got now? So if I was looking at myself back then or someone who was like you that maybe you could take some inspiration from what you say.

SPEAKER_00

There's another way. You don't have to hide behind things, you don't have to use or just uh change the way you feel because life's beautiful enough without that stuff, you know, everything we have is within us, and it's just about accessing that and loving yourself enough to to do this this work. So just yeah, keep going.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, keep going. That's amazing. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00

And if we could always, you know, like in depths of crying and mourning and oh that hell position from that break-up a wet of our, and you just cannot see a way out. Like if you could just say to yourself, you're gonna you get this will be okay. I promise you, this is gonna be okay. Because it always is, but you have to move through it. You can't rush the you can't rush it.

SPEAKER_03

No, and that's so powerful because nothing stays the same, not even good things, not even if you're like you're flying in your career and you're making all this money, and it's like your life's incredible, it doesn't stay like that forever, and the same it doesn't stay dark and heavy, it does, but like you say, when you're in it, it just feels like this is my life, my life's over, and gradually, day by day, moment by moment, you can just build those bricks and slowly, slowly come out of it. I mean, we've both suffered depression, burnout, and people uh who I work with they go, but look at you now, how how? And it's like you just got to sit with it, and and it gets better.

SPEAKER_00

You just have to. I think do you know what I say now? Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, thank you for that happening to me. Thank you, because and all this stuff, because I can actually help other people now, you know. Yeah, um, and uh yeah, just just that's what you know. If you could actually believe that, that actually what I'm going through is gonna help me because it always gets better, yeah. Or enjoy it while it lasts, because you know a shit, you you know, listen, we all know we're gonna get like we're all happy now. We know at some point like the world's gonna fall apart again, but I reckon we get better at not sitting in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think it's having that outlook, knowing it's having that knowing that it will pass, having that knowing things will get better, knowing you've got the mindset to deal with anything that comes your way, and that's the resilience and that's the growth. And everything's a gift, the struggles make us who we are, and that's how I've ended up doing the work I do as well.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Being in those situations where it's been tough, really tough. Anyways, thank you so much, Matt. I really appreciate your time, and it's been amazing to hear more about your life and your journey and your experience with the plant medicines, as you know, I'm so passionate about. So, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much for having me, honestly. I will do it again.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'd love to have you back to you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate you.