Speaker 1: 0:00

This is arrested with Mike Brooks and Atlanta criminal defense attorney. Damn Conway. Thanks for joining us. You're listening to arrested with Mike Brooks and criminal defense attorney Dan conaway. We've been talking about the serial pipe bomb mailer, if you will seize our say Yuck. And, and we're also going to be discussing Robert powers the shooter at the tree of life synagogue a little bit later in the show. But, uh, we, we talked about this, the exception to Miranda that the FBI used to try to find out and fairly quickly whether or not there were any more possible improvised explosive devices still somewhere in the postal system, but now we found out he had his first court appearance and he has been charged with five federal charges that he could possibly potentially serve up to 48 years in prison. Now, those charges interstate transportation of an explosive device, illegal mayland of explosives, threats against former presidents and other persons threatening interstate communication and assaulting current and former federal officers. So Dad, w with, with these five federal charges, uh, you know, what of these are the, are the most serious and could there possibly be any kind of plea deal when it comes to this or since their federal charges and it is so serious of sense. One of the, one of the folks that potentially we're going to get one of these pipe bombs was former president Barack Obama, you know, is that, is that the most serious charge? And secondly, he made his first appearance in Florida and he will be tried in New York. Try to tell. We'll talk about the charges first and then how does that whole work with the extradition from. He was arrested in Florida, but since the first bomb, a pipe bomb was mailed to George Soros, the FBI now had jurisdiction and the office of origin, if you will, for the FBI is there in New York and also the southern district of, uh, of Manhattan. How does all that work with the federal charges?

Speaker 2: 2:23

Okay. My good question. And uh, can it kind of keep it as simple as I can? I'm a couple of basic concepts. You kind of think about one is, is that you've got to have the case tried someplace, right? Right. The case has got to be somewhere in investigated somewhere. The southern district of New York makes perfect sense in this case because of the Soros, George Soros living there, but the Hillary Clinton has a place up there, so

Speaker 1: 2:49

was one of the providers was destined for. Okay,

Speaker 2: 2:52

so the basic idea is even though the pipe bombs were made in Florida, right? As far as we know, and the facts show and the investigation shows so far that people receive pipe bombs all over the country in different states. The bottom line is that they have to decide one place to bring the case. It's much easier for all sorts of reasons, right? The southern district is the natural place for that, for a number of reasons, one of which being, it's simply where these type of interstate cases oftentimes end up, uh, they have the resources, they have the personnel to really handle it there. And they're used to handling multi-jurisdictional multivendor cases that are national net. Either national cases, meaning crimes occurred all over the country or to transnational cases, crimes occurring in more than one country,

Speaker 1: 3:40

right. In fact, I don't know if people realize it or not, but the case against a Osama bin Ladin I was actually out of the New York field office of the FBI and was being handled through the southern district of New York. That's where the case of origin was and all the evidence that was ever gathered by, you know, uh, against him, uh, at different times, whether it'd been the embassy bombing in Nairobi, Kenya, in Khobar Towers, whatever, whatever incident was, was handled through that particular office.

Speaker 2: 4:12

That's absolutely right. For the same reasons I just discussed

Speaker 1: 4:15

at it because I, I, I. The only reason I know it was good. I actually was one of the team leaders for the FBI's evidence response team when I was assigned to the joint terrorism task force in Washington DC. But we worked that case in, handled all of the evidence. In fact, my name was on most of the[inaudible], which are the investigative reports or the FBI for all of the evidence that was gathered at the embassy bombing in Nairobi when they bond and back in 1998 when they bombed simultaneously the US embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, and also the US embassy and Dar Salaam, Tanzania.

Speaker 2: 4:46

That's right. That was kind of the sign that that was. That was really one. Osama bin Ladin came on our radar. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:52

It was on our radar law before that. But for the American. Yeah. American medical response. Probably that. Yep.

Speaker 2: 4:57

Yep. Um, yeah, so, uh, in this particular, so that's why you're in the southern district in New York and not in Florida or someplace else. I'm now beyond that. As far as the charges, they've got a number of charges. I mean, let me just go through them. They're all serious charges, but they're interesting because, um, uh, the way they deal with, they deal with a couple of different concepts. First of all, they deal with the fact that you can't just make a bomb or something. It looks like a bomb. Right? Or something that looks like an explosive device and stick it in the mail. It's that simple. You can't use that. That's called interstate transportation of explosives. It's federal law. 18, United States code four, two and eight. Four, four. You really want to look at it for two and eight, four, four on that one. Uh, secondly, the interest articles as not available. The same idea is all over again and it lists all sorts of things. And this one injurous articles is non billable. Poison contents containing poison, poisonous animals, insects, reptiles, and all explosives. So you can't mail to Cobra, Cobra can't mail a mongoose or a tiger, you know, so basically, and all these things which may ignite or explode. So it diseases and germs, you know, so it doesn't. And also artificial articles, in other words, it could look like a pipe bomb. It doesn't have to explode. Well, in this particular case, enter the, the FBI lab, the explosives lab at Quantico. They're still going over all the devices. They had a, I think about 18, about eight pristine devices that had not been opened yet. But uh, you know, they're saying some sort of people say, well, they were real bombs, you know, they were, they didn't have a detonator and, but anytime you take any kind of energetic material, an energetic powder, put it into a, a pipe and you kept the end of it, that is an improvised explosive device. It may ignite or explode exactly it because it's possibly susceptible to heat shock and friction. Exactly. There you go. There it is. So that's why he's charged with or without a fence. Gotcha. And it's a, it's one of those, uh, federal roles which in federal laws, which kind of takes in to account wide variety of circumstances because you never know what you're going to be dealing with a particular case. Uh, the next one is the threats against former presidents and certain other person's. Got You. All right. So in that one we got a, uh, we basically, it covers most of the people or all the people that the pipe bombs from mail to because uh, it covers a vice presidents and presidents, ex presidents and their families and members of Congress and so forth and so forth. And so forth. Gotcha. So it just covers a wide variety of people. The next one is threatening interstate communications. That's the accord. Again, the male is an interstate form of communication. So with respect to that, uh, if you transmit in interstate commerce through the US mail or attempt to do it otherwise and injure the person, then you violated or attempt to injure that person, then you have done that. You just have to attempt. And the finally assault and resisting repeating certain officers, employees. And that one, if you use a deadly or dangerous weapon, including a weapon intended to cause death, but that fails to do so by result of a defective component. Right? Right. But your intent is to scare the heck out of somebody at the very least, or inflict bodily injury. Then you can be in prison, but it's 20 years under that one. So that's assaulting, resisting, repeating certain officers, employees, which includes members of the federal government and former members of the federal government, like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Everybody else pretty much on the list. Right? So Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, everybody. So by the time you add it all up, he's faced in a ton of time. So as far as the plea deal, it's really simple. Uh, this case that will, I would be surprised it's not negotiated out. It's up to the client say I may choose to go to trial, but if you're as lawyer based upon the overwhelming amount of evidence, you're really trying to look at figuring out

Speaker 1: 8:56

a deal that's workable here and hoping they're not too many more pipe bomb show up now. Just the fact that he had a hundred people on a list could there possibly down the road as the investigation develops, could there be any more conspiracy charges here as well? You know, conspiracy to send something through the mail because maybe he had more envelopes but he didn't get a chance to build those bombs. Just the fact that he had a list and he had maybe other components, that kind of thing within advanced costs, is that a possibility? There could be more accounts because they're more persons, but on the other hand, that's based upon this concept of substantial steps. Gotcha. Have you taken a substantial step as far as conspiracy need more than one person for a conspiracy and so forth, so, so finding where there's no evidence. That's it, that there's another person involved that I know you're listening to arrested with Mike Brooks and criminal defense attorney. Dan Kahn. Away we will be looking at the synagogue shooting when we returned. It's the new talk one. Oh, six, seven.