Ag Geek Speak

3. Gridding the Zone with Ag Genesis Part 1

• A Podcast for Precision Agriculture Geeks • Season 2 • Episode 3

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Engaging with the evolving world of precision agriculture, this discussion sheds light on the unique relationship between technology and crop consulting. Our guests, Kurt Turner and Lane Bothwell of Ag Genesis Inc, bring their expertise to the table, sharing insights into the operational dynamics of the perfect duo: a precision ag and computer geek and soil sampling enthusiast. 

We discuss
- Introduction of Ag Genesis and its creation
- Key role of ADMS software in the crop consulting business
- Importance of soil sampling and mapping 
- Effects of tile drainage on crop yields 
- The synergy between office mapping and fieldwork 
- Future innovations in precision agriculture and an introduction to the next part of this episode's topic, gridding the zone.


Sarah:

And now it's time for a Geek Speak with GK Technology's, Sarah and Jodi, friends and I can't wait to get in the fields again.

Sarah:

No, I can't wait to get in the fields again. Welcome back to A Geek Speak. We are super excited for our second official season of A Geek Speak. The first season went so well that we're finding even more guests to join us and we're going to have some more great, pertinentt agriculture conversations. To start things off, we are going to be visiting with two gentlemen hailing from South Dakota with a business called Ag Genesis Incorporated Kurt Turner and Lane Bothwell. So thank you, gentlemen, gentlemen, for joining us today. Let's start by getting just a little bit about. Well, who are you, Kurt? Who are you?

Kurt Turner:

Let's see, started Ag Genesis in the fall of 2007. Prior to that, did some various work in agronomy research. So yeah, started Ag Genesis fall 2007 and brought Lane on board in 2015. And we do crop consulting and we do variable rate programs setting up, we write prescriptions for fertilizer seed. I have done some chemical in the past, but I haven't done that for a while. Most of our business is within 50 miles of Brookings, but we have some outliers beyond that as well.

Sarah:

So, Kurt, you've been using the software a long time. When did you actually start using ADMS software from GK Technology?

Kurt Turner:

Well, I started this company in August 2007, and that's when I started using ADMS software from GK Technology. Well, I started this company in August 2007, and that's when I started using ADMS.

Sarah:

You've been using it a long time.

Kurt Turner:

Yeah, it's come a long way since then, but it was very useful back then.

Jodi:

Had you used any sort of ag precision software before that time, or was this kind of like the only thing on the market? What was that like?

Kurt Turner:

Well, I hadn't used any other program before that. The reason I used it is because a friend of mine who was doing this kind of business was using it, and so I didn't know of any other one. So that's how I got hooked up to ADMS.

Sarah:

And you have a little bit of a background with computer programming as well, correct?

Kurt Turner:

Well, I did get a computer science minor in college back in mid-1980s if you can call that having to do with anything today.

Sarah:

It was a great foundation for a changing world in computer technology, right?

Kurt Turner:

Yes, it actually gave me the logic, so I understand computer logic and that's that's probably helpful. You know we were writing programs in Fortran and PL1 and BASIC and COBOL. Yeah, I doubt those are used anymore, although I have no idea.

Jodi:

What was so like back in the 80s and you were getting your degrees? What motivated you to get a computer science minor?

Kurt Turner:

I I'm not sure. I don't remember why I did that, but maybe it's because I wanted to expand my education beyond four years and make it five. It might have been that simple.

Jodi:

I did the same thing. I know how that goes.

Sarah:

It's hard work, cramming four years into six. That was my mantra Right Yep.

Jodi:

Was your main degree, agronomy too.

Kurt Turner:

Egg business. I had an egg business major and a commercial economics major, a minor in computer science and a minor in agronomy.

Jodi:

So like the perfect combination of skills to run a precision ag company, or like a precision ag crop consulting company.

Kurt Turner:

Right, yeah, and I did consulting for the first three and a half years after college graduation, and then I did some other things but came back to consulting because it's a great business.

Sarah:

What's your favorite part of consulting? What's your favorite part of the business?

Kurt Turner:

I don't know. I guess working with farmers it's the closest thing you can be to to being a farmer without being one. I guess is probably my favorite thing.

Sarah:

That is so true. I think back to the days of independent crop consulting and that was absolutely the best part, you know, just getting to know all those farming operations on some and on such a such an intimate level, and really getting to know what's important to those guys.

Kurt Turner:

Right right.

Sarah:

So, lane, we haven't been trying to intentionally ignore you, but hey, tell me a little bit about yourself.

Lane Bothwell:

Like Kurt said, I started with him in the fall or winter of 2015. I would say Kurt and this business has taught me more about the precision have to become a really good consultant. That's been kind of a game changer here.

Sarah:

And so one of the things that I think is interesting about Ag Genesis is you've got Kurt over there who actually has a minor in computer science, and then you've got Lane, and while you're one of my favorite people in the industry for precision agriculture, you're kind of the anti-computer guy, if I could call you that. Is it okay if I call you that?

Lane Bothwell:

That is fine. I will never claim that I should be better at computers. I just try to avoid them. I know how to use them. Kurt's taught me a lot, you know. He's taught me a ton on how to make maps, make prescriptions, the science and the art behind it. He's taught me a lot of that. Should I be better? Should I be doing more of them? Probably, but Kurt, he's definitely said it and I already said it it is a balance between an art and a science and I do really like to let Kurt handle the mapping and the prescription rating. He probably wishes that I do more of it. But but yeah, that's, that's a true statement you made there, sarah. But yeah, that's a true statement you made there, sarah.

Sarah:

But it's interesting because, at the same time, there are few people in this world that get to be truly passionate about soil sampling, and I would definitely put you into that category beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Lane Bothwell:

As much as some people love to sit behind a computer and do the mapping and the prescription writing.

Sarah:

Maybe there are some people that enjoy soil sampling just as much so, and I asked Kurt this question. I'll ask it to you. Maybe you've already answered it, but what is your favorite part of this business that you and Kurt do Lane? From your perspective, what's your favorite part?

Lane Bothwell:

Without taking Kurt's answer, mine would be probably working with Kurt and working with other consultants to get better at what we're doing. But, like Kurt said to, to be a valuable part in an operation is a is a good feeling at the end of the day, when people value your, your input and your hard work. That that's kind of the. That's what makes a guy want to do it the next day. But again, not only that, but working with people that make you better, that want you to be a part of their either their business or life that that makes the. That makes the day a lot better.

Sarah:

So, and now I'm going to ask another question that's a little bit more specific to precision agriculture. So when you take a look at the precision agriculture, you know you guys are out there making maps for people, you are making prescriptions, you're doing the soil sampling, you're making those precision agriculture recommendations and actually getting them implemented into the farm. And that's a huge process. It's a very you know, there's so much to it. So, considering how different both Lane and Kurt are here, what, from your perspectives, is your favorite part of that whole process for each one of you?

Kurt Turner:

For me, it's the map making. That's the best part for me. I love making maps great when you put together a composite map of a field productivity map and you go out in the field and you verify it and it's just as I'd say, 50% of the time they're exactly right. Sometimes you got to make some modifications, but that's my favorite part, definitely.

Sarah:

And Lane for you. What's your favorite part?

Lane Bothwell:

Mine would be, I suppose, implementing those maps and going out and taking the soil samples from those maps. Maybe the back half of that part, you know, kurt's the beginning part, maybe the back half of that part, you know, encourage the beginning part, making the map and getting it true and verified. And then I guess I like the back part of getting the soil samples taken consistently and taken well, and then of course, getting the results back, making sure that those make sense and then, of course, using them to either make prescriptions or make decisions on fertilizer.

Jodi:

So one thing I really enjoy about you guys is that, like you, both love your part of your job as precision ag implementor. So, like Kurt, with making the maps and Lane being out in the field, kind of ground truthing and verifying things For both of you and I'll start with Lane what are some of the things that you do to help give feedback to Kurt back at the computer? And then Kurt, what are some things that you, you know, kind of guide Lane forward, kind of being your eyes and in your boots in the ground to direct him, to help you make better maps? Like, what are some things you guys do to implement that process and work as a team to make those the best that they can be?

Lane Bothwell:

Starting here.

Lane Bothwell:

Well, first of all, adms makes it very easy to do that, as far as a lot of times it's making a map, do that as far as a lot of times it's making a map, getting it set up and then using that preliminary map in the field, as I'm soil sampling and ground truthing the map that Kurt made.

Lane Bothwell:

Again, like Kurt said, first of all, they're very accurate, right out of the box, right. But if there are very minor changes that need to be made, adms program makes it simple to either make those changes when you're in the field or, as I'm, just write down notes, keep track of maybe a few zones that maybe need to be modified one way or another and as, of course, changes get made to that field, whether it's drainage or stuff like that, it's hey, this zone now maybe is going to be changed in the future, because this happened, because I noticed it while I was soil sampling. So I do my best, as I'm in the field, to give Kurt the information he needs to make the maps that he makes the best that they can be.

Jodi:

So, Lane, you're out there looking for, like, what's changed in terms of drainage, or maybe there's been tile that's been put in place both since the last time you soiled sample, like you're looking for those changes that could affect you know how the map looks going forward or how the cropping.

Lane Bothwell:

Yeah, yeah, I am, you know, and not that fields change a ton in our area when it comes to. Fields change a ton in our area when it comes to productivity zones, but certainly drainage by far is probably one of the biggest factors that's going to change a zone from a perpetual wet, drowned out area to possibly, eventually, one of the better parts of the field, or I mean it could be as small as um boundary changes maybe, uh as well, or so it's all those kind of things that I attempt to pay attention to. Or, you know, when you notice different from the map that's in front of me while I'm soil sampling it. Those are, those are some information that I can pass on, because I do like to just stay in the field while it's soil sampling season and, like I said, I like, I think we have a pretty good system of here's the information you're in the office and he can make the changes and I can just keep soil sampling.

Sarah:

Does that?

Kurt Turner:

tend to work pretty good for you, kurt, or how does how does it kind of work for you? Yeah, that definitely works, and sometimes when I put together a map, either I'll go out and verify it or he'll verify it when he samples, and sometimes maybe there's an area of the field I'm not very sure about. So when he's out there verifying I can explain to him what my feeling is, if it should be better or worse, or and, and he can come back with a better, I guess a better idea. And sometimes when you have red zones and it's it's related to elevation because it's high area, you're not.

Kurt Turner:

If you're not in the field, you don't know exactly, uh, if it's, uh, a clay knob or a gravel knob. He can verify that, because that has whether it's clay knob or gravel knob really has an impact on what, where that yield goal should be set. If it's a clay knob, it's better than than uh, than a gravel knob, and the gravel knob should be probably set lower. So sometimes he can verify that kind of thing so we can get the yield goals correctly.

Sarah:

So I just think this conversation is fascinating. One of the things that I think a lot of our customers and different people working in the arena of precision agriculture, especially in the world of independent crop consulting and in the consulting world is how to set up a business so that it can be successful and really have those good business models that work. And I think it's really unique that in this instance you kind of each have your areas that you really enjoy the most and you're able to allow each one of you to bring out your strengths Right. And that really is one of the strengths of Agenesis. You know, Lane is actually a pretty good friend of Jody and mine, which is very fun, and I can tell you, Kurt, that we've been out at different social events and he's bragged about the fact that he's got a Kurt back at the office making the mask, and so it is really fun to see how you both interact very well to have that success for

Kurt Turner:

your business model. Well, very particular about my maps too. Can I tell you a story of the first map I ever made by myself? Yeah, please. So it was the fall of 07. Now, if you guys know who Kim Retzlaff is, he's the one that taught me how to verify fields and use ADMS. But anyway, it was a half section. They wanted mapped and so I went out there. Now, back then, in the fall of 2007, you didn't have composites, you couldn't put several maps together. You, you picked out one image that fit the field the best, so it was uh. So you, you went out in the field and you had this, this long list of of uh images for that field that might be seven, eight years long and several months in each each year. So you, you're going through all these, all these maps and, uh, that first field, just verify. And of course I was. I would verify and soil sample back then because I was by myself. I put on 55 miles in that field.

Kurt Turner:

Just driving around trying to verify that field, just driving around trying to verify yeah, verifying different maps, and I didn't really know what I was doing. So and uh, yeah, I put on 55 miles.

Sarah:

Did the map turn out good?

Kurt Turner:

I think it did.

Sarah:

Those 55 miles were worth it. That's a great story. I love it. So one thing that I do want to ask, especially when you've got somebody that's in the office making maps. You know you got Kurt back there making the maps and you've got Lane out in the field. I know that you both were on the trial basis the very start of having the opportunity to use the GK Field Mapper app and, out of curiosity, how did that work out when you've got one person in the office and one person out soil sampling and hopefully it helped to make some of those ground truthing and possible map changes maybe a little bit easier?

Kurt Turner:

Yeah, well, we uploaded to the field mapper. We uploaded all of our fields that we were going to sample last fall variable rate ones, anyway, yeah, it worked out very well and I'm not going to sit here and say that I uploaded the correct map for 100 of the field. So sometimes lane would get to the field and, uh, this is not the map for this field. So, being here, I could just upload it and bang, you'd have it within a few minutes and that was great. That worked out very well. So, but yeah, that has been a game changer, I think, because we can now use iPads instead of computers in the field and I can't tell you how many laptops over the years I went through because they just get beat up and busted in the field.

Sarah:

Yeah, I've given recommendations to people. Don't buy a new computer for soil sampling, because this is where computers go to die.

Kurt Turner:

Right, exactly.

Jodi:

It's amazing that the tech companies aren't making soil sampling computers or computers for soil sampling use.

Sarah:

But if the hydraulic cylinder and the soil sampling pickup and the probes combined are worth more than the pickup and the laptop, you're doing something wrong as a soil sampler. You're laughing Lane because you know I'm right.

Lane Bothwell:

I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. The efficiency part of that app. I'd like to say our end. But on my end, if I needed anything again, whether, if something needed to be uploaded very quickly, any changes need to be made For me to be in the field and not have to sit and maybe wait or anything, it was fast, or anything. It was fast. Again, we've kind of mentioned within our business just the reduction of equipment and tech that we have to deal with as far as computers and extra things was extremely nice for us. So using the iPads all year round, not destroying computers, it's been kind of a game changer as far as I'm concerned.

Jodi:

Were there instances where you were able to make like a comment lane out in the field and you were able to send a map back to Kurt and Kurt was able to get you an updated map through the FieldMapper app.

Lane Bothwell:

A couple of cases that I can recall is maybe we made some changes to a map and we take the same points year after year. You know, if the map had kind of changed a little bit, I could you know when I set my points I would take it maybe in a different area. That way we can consistently start taking it out of that zone. Again, field boundaries I can make it quick, I can drive it and that just gets sent right to the cloud and that just uploads right back to them. I don't have to maybe write it down and come back and maybe I think it kind of went around that slough or maybe those trees are gone now. You just drive it and it just pops right back up to the program. So those are maybe some pretty minor cases that I can think of. But that was stuff that we can use it for. And we have Another case I can recall, I guess that you know.

Lane Bothwell:

Again, it might be minor, but maybe a field got split in two for whatever reason. Different crops hey, this is the line, this is corn and beans. The crop's going back to corn. Maybe that split field with different crops can change our fertilizer recommendations based on the past crop Manure application lines. I mean, it's just so easy to use and, let's be honest, you always got the iPad in your pickup, so it's just bring it up, set the boundary, set the line and all that information is just sent right back to the cloud.

Jodi:

That's such a great example of marking those lines of where either like a manure was applied and manure was not applied, or like just cropping history changes. I know from like the soil fertility side. You can have very different results based on what side of the line that you're on, and I know, like being in the field, sometimes it's hard to record those changes right. Like you can either like if you've got a map with you you can draw on it, but having something where you can make that exact boundary and then like electrosoil samples on both sides of that, so like having separate soil samples and separate soil test results for both sides that's crucial. And like being confident that you know you're collecting in that specific area. It sounds really menial, but that is a that's a huge thing. It yeah, that's a great example.

Lane Bothwell:

It can drastically change your, your fertility application. Yes, you know, and if it's a significant amount of acres, yeah, I mean it can make the difference. So having that data is important.

Kurt Turner:

Well and sloughs. So water rises, the water recedes. I have an opinion that those areas shouldn't be farmed anyway, but they're going to farm them if they possibly can. Areas shouldn't be farmed anyway, but they're going to farm them if they possibly can. They're going to take that chisel plow as far down in the slough as they can. So those lines are changing and it's almost constant. Every year they change a little bit. So, using the iPad to okay, now this is receded this way or this is expanded out that way. That's easy to do now.

Jodi:

Oh, that's fantastic. And over time, we'll make the app better too, to better suit your needs, and as more ideas and more folks use it and think of ways that they're modifying their maps and using it, etc. I think it'll keep getting better, just like ADMS has since 2007. And the single layer to many, many layers being used to make zone maps.

Sarah:

Right, so you don't have to put on 55 miles in one field just so you can figure out which image you want to use Exactly.

Jodi:

So Lane I think it was Lane you had mentioned earlier that there's been a lot of drainage in your area and within your group of growers. Has that been a lot of surface drainage, tile drainage? What are you seeing right now in your area?

Lane Bothwell:

It's mostly tile drainage and even once you think of a field probably has all the tile it ever needs by the time you have another little over wet year, wet spring, there's always more that can be installed. So that's been pretty significant in our area, I'd say, the last 10 years, of areas that are constantly high in salts, low productivity, very high in fertility typically, and then you add good tile drainage and it doesn't take very long for those areas not to become some of the worst yielding areas but pretty well some of the best. So it's a, it's almost a complete flop. So being able to manage those areas and and, um, separate those areas out and, uh, continually managing them separately as poor areas and then being able to switch them to become some of the best, um, it's pretty important to be able to separate those areas, even after they've been tiled, from the rest of the field.

Jodi:

So, kurt, on the map making side, how do you go about managing those areas? So like, with that change, right like so somebody implements tile, does that map see the same for you? And you just modify those areas that are, you know, draining faster in the spring or are improving, or how do you go about, you know, modifying your zones over time when tile drainage is is implemented on a, on a field.

Kurt Turner:

Well it's. It's a matter of dropping out old imagery, that you've got older imagery you're using to make that composite map and adding in the newer imagery. And I find over time these tiled areas don't instantly become better. It takes two, three years. So you can modify that map to get okay, it's a step up better now this year and now the next. Maybe the next time it comes around to corn again it's going to be full-fledged, really good, so you can. You're going to use more recent imagery now to to make the map for that field, as opposed to you're going to drop out the older, the older imagery which shows those areas as being wet, because now they're not. So yeah, that's kind of how I manage it.

Sarah:

Beautiful. That's great. That's a lot of content here for our first episode with these guys, kurt and Lane from Egg Genesis, and we are probably going to wrap it up for this episode and next time we will visit with Kurt and Lane even more about gridding the zone. Have you ever thought about combining the zones with grids? Holy Hannah, that's a lot of precision egg in there. It's going to be fun. From GK Technology, where we have a map and an app For that.