Ag Geek Speak

15. Variable Rating Herbicides with Kyle Okke Pt. 1

• A Podcast for Precision Agriculture Geeks • Season 2 • Episode 15

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We explore using precision agriculture to variable-rate apply residual herbicides using soil-driven maps to reduce crop injury on sensitive zones while maintaining strong weed control. Kyle Okke joins us to explain why OM, pH, and texture can set the rate and how sprayer mechanics affect success.

In this episode, we discuss

• Specialty crops that rely on pre-emerge residuals
• Resistant weeds driving need for fall residual applications
• Soil variability across landscape positions
• Reading labels and guidance on applications based on soil OM, pH and texture
• Diagnosing sunflower and pea herbicide injury patterns
• Pre- versus Post-herbicide application nuance and resistance risk
• Carrier volume (GPA: gallons per acre) as a rate knob
• Coverage demands for contact herbicides
• Sprayer pressure, droplets, and nozzle behavior
• When to split passes versus going across a field once

At GK Technology, we have a map and an app for that!

https://gktechinc.com/

Sarah:

And now it's time for Ag Geek Speak with GK Technology's, Sarah and Jodi.

Theme Song:

In the fields again. I just can't wait to get in the fields again. The life I love is written product for my friend. And I can't wait to get in the fields again. No, I can't wait to get in the fields again.

Sarah:

Welcome back to Ag Geek Speak. We are so excited for this week's episode. And we have a very special guest who is now a recurring guest of the show, uh, Mr. Kyle Okke with Agile Agronomy out of Dickinson, North Dakota. We're very happy to have you here today, Kyle.

Kyle Okke:

Well, I'm really happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me along the ride one more time.

Sarah:

One more time. And we have a we have a really fun topic to visit about today. So often when we're talking about precision agriculture concepts and variable rating different products, we're talking mostly about fertilizer or seed, those kinds of things. But, you know, it feels to me like herbicides and pesticides are kind of the last final frontier to really get that uh precision concepts involved. And Kyle has been working with his independent crop consulting business and his customers on doing variable rate residual herbicides. So we're very excited about this topic and and can't wait to uh scratch the surface and visit about it.

Kyle Okke:

Excellent. Yeah, that's you know, last frontier is a fun way to say it. I feel like there'll be more frontiers and precision ag, but this is definitely the one that I think um it makes a ton of sense why we're doing it. I mean, just uh applying different rates of residual herbicide that this this is all driven off of not that it would be cool to do or that we need to put a higher rate somewhere to try to get more weed control. It it's not around that. It was more around that we have all these sensitive crops to particular herbicides that we need to go. Is there a way? Well, we're we always govern the rate of certain things. So western North Dakota, eastern Montana, well, all on North Dakota, into Montana, anywhere that grows sunflowers, anywhere that grows field peas, driedable beans, lentils, chickpeas, even though I don't think chickpeas are really that sensitive to a lot of these herbicides. But let's just say things that fall in the pulse crop category, soybeans would definitely fall in this one, I think. But but those specialty crops, we don't have post-emergent stellar options to use, so we rely real heavily on a pre-merge, and so it's like that necessary evil. But everyone kind of out west, we govern our rates on we're looking at every one of those like low organic matter, eroded hillsides, and we go, I don't want to lose all these hillsides, even though those are low-yielding areas, it just drives you crazy. Like, I don't want to do that because the sure the herbicide works really good, but then the crop canopy is so compromised that it ends up being a weedy spot later. And it's like we got to do something different.

Sarah:

And okay, I want to back up for one second here and go back to talking about the crop mix that you're talking about where we where we place this, because I know a lot of your perspective is from Western North Dakota, and yet at the same time, you know, this this is a concept that I think based on how we've talked about it, can really get applied in a lot of different places. So in eastern, oh yeah, in eastern North Dakota, I'm thinking about dry beans. Um, I think there could be some residual herbicide things with like Nortron or some of that stuff, even in sugar beets and you know, different different things like that too. So it really is a specialty crop thing, but even in soybeans, I mean, what the way that we're dealing with resistant weeds right now, these residual herbicides have just got to be such a big component of our weed control system. Otherwise, we we just leave too much on the table and and it and it's we need these residuals to help us manage our resistant weeds, I guess.

Kyle Okke:

Well, I'm I'm a western Minnesota native. I was just visiting my parents uh just the other week, and the neighbor's field, right to my parents' yard, is is a great example. So uh where where I grew up is right on the edge of the Red River Valley. I guess we'd always called it the Beetridge. It's the Beach Ridge of Glacial Lake Agassiz. And so you get this mix of some beautiful loams, and you have a lot of these gravel and sand vanes that come up to the surface. And if you look on an aerial map, or you just open your eyes and look around, like from my parents' yard, if I look directly to the north, there's a huge drag line gravel pit that they have there. And then if I think of my school bus route as a kid, gravel pits lined all over the place out there. The property that my parents live on is a reclaimed gravel pit. So kidding. Yeah, so so you go from this like absolutely beautiful, dark, deep loam to just a pure skeletal sand all in the same field. And so you go from high organic matter to no organic matter, and you have like all these giant variances there, and so yeah, soybeans, you know, you think of stuff that's really sensitive to yeah, low organic matter. Uh a lot of your group 14s, uh, your you know, like metrobusans, stuff like that are going to be sensitive. So, yeah, soybeans have an absolute play in this too, in my opinion.

Jodi:

So your your dad's a big gardener. Does he garden on the sand too?

Kyle Okke:

Or is that outside of the most most of the most of the sand soil types we have on on ours are um uh now just planted to grass. So they're just native, native pasture. Now we used to try to farm that. We'd irrigate that some, but uh it's actually a Galinden series that uh of of it. So it's a really nice that's really nice stuff. It's a really nice soil that that they that he has his 10 acres of garden and he still does.

Jodi:

Beautiful. I I I just asked because I uh, you know, I think any of us that work in agronomy now and have taken some time to think about differences in soils might well, I mean, I think all of us look at our surroundings a lot differently now, right? Like Hyo, you mentioned, you know, the gravel pits that you drove by when you were growing up. Um, and now you understand that that's an artifact of of glaciation in the glacial lake. But I think that's all of us, right? Like I think about where I grew up. My mom gardened in a garden that after we she irrigated it for so many years uh doing farmers market, like it got really cloudy, right? We were introducing soda sodicity to the garden. And that didn't, you know, hit me until later. And I I bring that up because like that's this is what we're talking about, these differences that we see and appreciate as we are in fields longer or cover a different area. We start to see that everywhere we go, no matter if it's, you know, a part of North Dakota or you know, someplace like Indiana or Illinois, these differences are everywhere. And not only do they have the potential to affect just yield, but other things that we apply to the soil too, like herbicide, these factors that are in the soil, these differences, that affects how those herbicides absolutely.

Sarah:

And I think another thing that's changed over time and agriculture, generally speaking, is you know, our equipment has grown in size and we are farming larger fields. We've combined fields from the past. And so within that, we probably have, you know, the larger the field size is, the more opportunity there is to have differences with the soils within that area. And so it makes it very hard sometimes to have that flat rate going over these large fields. And I mean, you're from Western North Dakota, Kyle. So I'm sure that you see some of these larger fields all the time out there.

Kyle Okke:

Oh gosh, yeah. I there there's farmers I work with that I've got fields as small as uh 10 acres in size, and I've got fields as large as uh the very largest field that I do personally work with is like 1,640 acres or something like that.

Sarah:

So that's a big field.

Kyle Okke:

And and that's and that's not a yeah, it is a very big field, and it's not an outlier. There's actually multiple fields that are of that size. I mean, they're just like you said, uh you know uh farming in in a more arid region, you it's an economy of scale for a lot. And and if you are fortunate enough to pick up either land that you're renting that's adjacent to other land you rent, I mean, there's if you have a cattle operation, keeping fence rows and all that stuff makes sense. Sometimes landlords are goofy about stuff like that, and they like to keep their fence rows even though they're completely obsolete from keeping cattle in. And that and that exists, but then you have others that are like, God, there's such an eye sort. Like, we just like that cleaned up. And and then they're like, hey, tear out the fence rows, and that makes farming way more efficient to have those fence rows out of there, and fields have gotten bigger, and and managing how you do things is very different. So a field that maybe had been you know, three different fields in the past is one field now, and so that's that's where like the variable rate anything has made absolutely a ton of sense because when you have small fields, you're kind of it the the chance of that being all the same soil type, all the same parameters is a lot better. The bigger it gets, you know, yeah, it it just the more variability you start to introduce, and and just going into the flat rate anything doesn't necessarily make sense. But yeah, that that's where it gets to like the the herbicides and the weed control thing. I'll preface this as you know, it it birthed out of seeing all of your zone soil test results, and and so you get an idea like for us out here, these were the general trends, and it wasn't like a standard, like this wasn't a one-size-fits-all trend, but you saw this trend a lot, and you still see it a lot. And the more you dig into it now, like I can look at a soil series map and a zone map, and I can start to predict what I'm gonna see now without seeing the results. Generally, our better landscape positions have higher organic matter, they have lower pH, and and then the textural class is just whatever the textural class is, depending on the soil series. And then as you move up in landscape positions, so here we don't have a lot of pancake flat fields, we've got a lot of rolling topography, and as you go up in the landscape position, you start to get some more coarser ground because over time it has eroded just because of farming, no matter how good we are at our no-till practices, you have sloughing off of organic matter and and topsoil material, and you're closer to the parent material, and so you have coarser soil textures. Um, also those areas because you're closer to the parent material, are a lot higher pH. And there's this general trend of low organic matter, higher pH, coarser soils in all of these high landscape positions. And it's not like that on every single field everywhere, but it's a pretty, pretty solid trend in a lot of fields. And then as you got into the the really productive areas, the organic matter really increases, the pH really decreases, and you generally have just a heavier soil anyways. And and so you you start to look at like a label of a lot of uh we'll just pick on Spartan, that's the name brand. The name brand, Spartan, gets used on sunflowers and field peas, chickpeas, driedable beans in some circumstances, flax, safflower. I mean it's like the specialty crop residual herbicide, pre-emergent residual herbicide. And everyone will say, well, that's just Spartan when every hilltop burns up after a rain, or you know, like everything looks like it comes up decent initially and then really starts to pucker up and and get hurt later. And those labels have this beautiful roadmap built in it already, and they they have this flow chart, and it has the parameters of soil texture class, soil organic matter, and soil pH, to tell you you know what rate a herbicide is safe or if you should even use it at all.

Sarah:

Huh. Of course. Maybe it's it's a place to like shut it off, too.

Kyle Okke:

Yep, and and that's uh that's kind of a bridge that I think I'll be crossing more as as time goes. Oh, we've but that's that's where birthed the idea of just like, well, ever everyone's like, well, yeah, we should be variable rating this, but it's like, how do you make that work? You know, everything's a tank mix, everything goes in one tank. But the practice has become we do a lot of fall residuals now. So now we're now we're starting to layer residuals to to try to help, you know, kind of fill in all these gaps in time where weeds can start, you know, coming through, and and so we're just putting more armor out there. So what we started doing is just running fall residuals and then coming in and variable rating the entire tank mix, so it'd just be like a glyphosate uh sulfentrazome tank mix. And so you have to pick a rather high rate of glyphosate so that where you do lower your rate, you're still achieving control. Uh but the good news is that most of the area where you're reducing your rate when when we do all this layered residual, we're really just dealing with like volunteer grains and small, yeah, it's small grasses, easy to control stuff where the residual herbicides are really more focused on broadleaf weeds. And then, and then then obviously you pick a rate of uh of sulfentrazone to you know make this work across the field where you're reducing and so the focal point for us has been reducing the rate low enough to minimize injury in those very sensitive areas, and then just get to a full rate that that gives us adequate weed control in the areas that won't be sensitive. But potentially in the future we could be playing around with you know increasing where we need to have more, as long as it's allowed. But currently, right now, it's just it's just avoiding crop injury in the areas that we get crop injury because those end up being point sources for weeds later when we injure the crop so badly that you have like late season uh stink grass and and some other broadleaf weeds like kosher does come in some of those areas sometimes, even though you have a very effective herbicide on it. But you have no crop canopy to protect it or to keep it from coming.

Jodi:

Backing up a little bit, can you for somebody that's you know, maybe they think, hey, maybe this is something that's going on in my field, or somebody that doesn't do residuals in the fall, can you describe more about, you know, what do these spots look like in the field? What are you looking for? And what really confirms that this is a residual herbicide issue when you see it? And then maybe talk about what the standard rate and practice was before, before you started doing your split residuals. So start with symptomology and then talk about what the the common uh practice was before.

Kyle Okke:

So symptomology-wise, I think sunflowers are probably the easiest one to pick on because they show it the most showy, I guess, when you when you see self-enter zone injury or group 14 injury. So you'll every plant comes up nice. And then it seems like once you get those first set of true leaves out, if you have an overload of that herbicide because of soil parameters, because your soil organic matter is really low, because your pH is really high, uh, and then if your textural class, you know, it doesn't have like a lot of buffering capacity. So let's say you're on a sand soil type, it it just gets this uh the well the leaves just decay, they just become necrotic, and the whole plant starts to stunt, I guess is the best way to explain it, because the plant doesn't stop growing, but it looks like it's starting to stack nodes on top of each other. So instead of like these nice lengthened inner nodes and you get this this whole spread of leaves, you you look at this plant that you're like, wow, something definitely is wrong with this plant. It's not a nutrient deficiency, the because the whole plant is it, it just it looks like it did get sprayed with something. And and then the nodes stack up and the plants end up staying relatively short in comparison to all the uninjured plants around it. And and then it never really canopies, it never produces as high of a yield as what maybe it potentially could have. Uh, field peas look very similar. Uh field peas end up getting like these these necrotic leaf margins, but then it's on the stems, it's in in the inner nodes, but you'll see the inner nodes stack really heavy on top of each other. So instead of getting this like nice length and stretched out pea plant that gets some height to it, it just is this little stubby thing that never gets much height to it and and has a bunch of just burnt leaf edges and never really does much. And it might put out a couple flowers, but peas already aren't a very proliferate growing plant to begin with. So if you're you're stunting these plants and then they're only growing a few inches tall, and they put on maybe one flower and one pod, one will the combine even pick that up. Two, it never canopies the ground. And so the heat of the summer evaporates any moisture out of that ground, you get more capillary movement of water from underneath that keeps drying it out and keeps drying it out, and and so it just perpetually becomes a bigger issue over the year. But if we could just prevent some of that injury there, maybe we can get just a little bit more yield out of it. There's never high expectations out of those areas, but just to have a crop canopy over it so we can prevent really weeds from taking over is a big deal.

Sarah:

Yeah, and I want to that's a great description of how it changes over the landscape. And you know, that whole idea of trying to avoid that injury. And it's so interesting how you can drive across a field on a four-wheeler and all of a sudden you drive into those spots and and you're just you know you're in that herbicide injury area because you flat rated it across, and there's no way to manage that any better. If you if you reduce the rate, those areas with that higher organic matter and pH, you're just gonna get no weed control at all. So it's it's such a tough thing to make those decisions about if you're flat rating this. But I want to back up for a second and talk about that tank mix of, for example, sulfentrazone and glyphosate, because essentially what you're doing with this application is you are both burning down post, you know, weeds that have emerged with the glyphosate, and you're also applying that sulfentrazone, hopefully, um, you know, to get that residual activity. You know, I'm I'm sure it's burning the weeds that are up too and helping with the activity of the glyphosate a little bit, but primarily we're leaning on the glyphosate for that post-weed activity and the self-intrazone is for a residual. And I think it's important for us to think about precision uh herbicide applications in particular from a different perspective when we're talking about post-emerge weeds, post-emerge applications versus you know, pre- and residual herbicide applications. And I I think that's you know, because it's tough to reduce those rates for those post-emerge herbicides. We don't want to be creating weed resistance out there. So um, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that or if you've um you know thought about that at all.

Kyle Okke:

Or that's that's the catch 22 of this whole thing. That that's where uh, at least for us, what has made this more successful is the use of fall residuals so that the weed spectrum we're dealing with, we can overcome with the reduction of the post-emergent herbicide that's in the tank mix. So that's that's a key component of it. If you are not applying a fall residual, then it's wide open what you could be dealing with in in the spring. And for us, the the big driving weed, which it is for most of North Dakota and into Montana, is kosher. And and so you're really trying to manage that. If you have any of that coming up post or you know, that's coming up and you and you have to rely on your post spray, we're gonna be in a lot of trouble. So that the idea is that we're trying to eliminate the field of majority or all of that, so that it's never seeing the the sunlight. You know, it's never it's it's always you know just a seed. That's that's the idea behind it. But yes, um there's could you know that kind of a practice give problems with other weeds if you're using reduced rates, like say a glyphosate that we already have resistance issues and other weeds already? So so yeah, you have to be very cognizant of that. It's gonna be a field by field thing. You definitely can't be just making blanket recommendations and and running with it like that either. It it definitely takes uh well, it's it's this group we're speaking with, you know. Precision ag isn't a perfect cookie-cutter thing you can do with every single field, right? Like you can't just say, yeah, this farm farms 40 fields and we're gonna just do the variable rate exactly the same for every field. It's like that's not true. You're gonna pay special attention to certain things on a fertility basis and how you're gonna variable rate, and and you go, yeah, maybe the cornseed population we're gonna do different on this field versus this field. You know, like this sand here has has a very shallow clay base, so it holds actually some decent moisture and does really well. And we could put higher populations here, but this is like sand with gravel, you know, subler underneath, and we we won't grow any. So, anyways, I'm just saying like so. When it comes to the herbicide thing, it takes it still takes some of like the active field knowledge to go like, yeah, you know what? We were talking about doing the variable rate thing all in one tank mix. No, no, you've got to go and make, you know, if you want to do this variable rate thing, you might have to make two different passes.

Sarah:

So there are are there fields that you have actually done that where you have recommended that um that second, you know, to do a burn down application separately.

Kyle Okke:

So actually we we had a combo and it was um yeah, so a lot of the sunflowers this year with one of my farms, that that's exactly what we did. So we had our we had our pre pre like seeding burn down, and we had a lot of broadleaf weeds already coming, and and so we we did come in with with a tank mix and and apply just for a post-emersion circumstance to try to burn back all the broadleaves that were there and then seeded and then came back and and did just a sulfenterzone right right after seeding.

Jodi:

Let's dig into this a little bit more because like I don't think it's as obvious why it's more difficult to variable rate herbicides than it is like a fertilizer, right? Like we think of we talk about herbicide the variable rate applications as being the final frontier because it is a little bit more nuanced here, right? Because as Sarah mentioned, there's the pre versus post aspect. And then also when we're applying herbicides, we're not changing like you mentioned it a little bit about how you're adjusting your rates, Kyle. But when we're applying herbicides, we have to be cognizant, at least if it's a post-emergent application, about how many gallons per acre you're applying. And so if you reduce your gallonage, you're reducing your rate too. But for post-emergence, GPA is very important. Whereas for residual herbicides, the GPA isn't as important. You mean gallons per acre? Yeah, the gallons per acre for GPA. So I think you were getting into that, Kyle. But I just wanted to make that clear for everybody, too, about why it's a little bit more nuanced when we talk about varying our rates of herbicides.

Kyle Okke:

There certainly is more nuance there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you you couldn't uh well here here's a really good example. So say you're someone, and this has become a lot more common practice, that they like the tank mix sulfentrazone and pericot together. So the variable rating I've been doing is via glyphosate, and I'm very and and I didn't really mention that before. So we're variable rating the entire water volume. So we're we're loading the sprayer for 10 gallon per acre carrier volume.

Sarah:

So the rating your average carrier rate is about 10 gallons.

Kyle Okke:

Well, the average won't end up being 10 gallons, but we're loading the field like we're going out for a standard static rate of 10 gallons. So say we're we're loading for five ounces of sulfatrazone, and let's say we're putting out 32 ounces of glyphosate, and then whatever we do for our water conditioner, and then we're variable rate.

Sarah:

What's your carrier rate at that at 10 gallons at 10 gallons?

Kyle Okke:

At 10 gallons. So you're loading the sprayer, assuming that you're gonna do 10 gallon spraying at those particular rates. And so if you were just to spray at 10 gallons flat, you would you would get that rate. And then what we've been doing is cutting back the water volume. So we'll go to five gallons of applied water volume over those sensitive areas, which sure we get half of the particles out there, but we also get half of the applied residual and half of the it's half of the volume. So it's so we're applying half of the amount of herbicide over those areas, and that's what's reducing our injury because we're not overloading the active ingredient, but that's also where there's less glyphosate going over those areas as well.

Sarah:

And so and if I can just add in at five gallons coverage issues, you probably are getting way less coverage.

Jodi:

Yep.

Kyle Okke:

And and in a in a no-canopy uh spring situation, five gallons in glyphosate, that's fine. We get decent coverage, we've had really good control. But let's go to those groups of farms that have all of a sudden started using periquat in place of glyphosate. Or there's some that even try Liberty and do this. Oh contact-only type herbicides. Now imagine if that's how you're going to load your sprayer and this is what you're gonna do. If you were to go from 10 gallons to five gallons, which I would never advocate doing 10 to start with as a standard rate for those, but so you have to really think specifically to your tank mix. So, yeah, to to both of your points, it's very nuanced. You you've gotta you can't make a blanket recommendation.

Sarah:

What you're saying then is that coverage component when you're using like those contact herbicides like Pear Quat and Liberty, it's so critical. So if you're gonna start variable rating based on the carrier volume out there. you're really going to impact but how those uh those contact herbicides perform.

Kyle Okke:

So this is this is the cool part in my opinion. So this is I mean it it's taken you know because there's a there's like a lot of equipment tech side of things that make this possible. So not every sprayer can even just because you have a rate controller that can variably run your pump doesn't mean that it works with your sprayer or or for veribrate spraying and so I'll kind of like explain what I'm meaning on this and then I'll kind of roll into what I'm talking about like in new tech where there's there's way better ways to do this. So it it starts with just the conventional sprayer. And so the conventional sprayer is just saying you have a a water tank, you have a pump hooked up to that tank and then it's going out to the spray boom and and the whole spray boom is going to see the same amount of pressure applied to it through that pump. And you can have your variable rate controller that's that's in your cab or that's controlling the the flow through that pump but in order for there to be a variable applied amount it's going to be pushing more pressure or decreasing pressure as you're going in and out of those booms through that pump. And so because each nozzle is a very specific orifice size and was designed to be run within a certain pressure range. And so if you take a conventional sprayer and now you're decreasing or increasing pressure anyone that runs a sprayer goes yeah either you collapse your pattern to where it looks like raindrops coming out of the spray boom to increase you know and everyone that sprays sees this because they get to a sensitive border what is what's the first thing to do lower the booms drop the pressure yep and and they're being very careful because the less the pressure the less fines that come out of those nozzles and the less fines the less drift and and so you're you're really lowering your you know just you're making big drops not very good coverage on those areas now let's say you're speeding up in the field well that's but your rate control is always compensating for things so when you speed up in the field it's increasing the pressure running through the pump or it's increasing the water volume going through the pump it's the same exact orphan sizes on it's the same output size the same holes that are coming out of the the spray nozzles so it has to it's a higher pressure so it's pressurizing and then you're running more water through those which is going to make higher pressure you know more pounds per square inch whatever coming through each one of those nozzles and that's going to shear that water even more and then this is where it takes that that same droplet and then all of a sudden it explodes it into tons of little fine droplets. And so now if you started that just happens through the variability of not being able to maintain speed in a field. So if you yeah and so that that's some of the challenges that you were facing with a conventional sprayer when you were doing this so yeah I well and and we didn't even attempt it with a conventional sprayer just knowing that knowledge but even just a uh just going through like a liquid system for doing variable rate fertilizer. So I've got like guys that do side dressing and or or running liquid through their planter uh not not starter but like like I've got one one that has a conceal system from precision planting for any applies all is 28% that way. So we have to so we we have to it they and then we do a lot of top dressing uh too where we where we have to run as a conventional system because we're just running such a sheer volume through there. For sure. And so to maintain your target you to maintain your target rate like with those huge huge volumes of water going through there they're they're slamming back on their hydro they're they're really speeding up depending on the areas they're in and so there's it's uh it's pretty taxing on on the operator when they're trying to maintain like target rates on that. And so when it comes to spraying it's a way smaller volume it'll keep up with it the pumps will but but what you're seeing is a collapsed pattern and then just pure fog coming coming out of the back and and there's a lot of implications that come with that.

Sarah:

Those droplet changes are totally going to impact how the the spray works especially on on weeds that are emerged but it's still going to affect the coverage on the ground and all the rest. Yeah we're gonna talk next time on the next episode about how we can work with the mechanics of actually getting into making the this right work we haven't even talked about how to map this out yet so we're gonna have Kyle back for a second episode where we can talk about more of the mechanics behind this whole concept of variable rate residual herbicides. So thank you for joining us Kyle we can't wait to talk to you next time and with that at GK Technology we have a map and an app for that