Success with ICD
Hear the success stories from ICD participants around the country and how they have used the program to benefit their life.
Success with ICD
Embracing the Challenge with Jeremy Gervasio
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Jeremy Gervasio from Sumitomo USW Local 135L joined the Steelworkers with zero knowledge of what everything actually entailed. After getting a wake up call on his first day, he decided to take on the challenge and grew to love every aspect about being a Steelworker. He talks about the brotherhood he formed and how ICD helped him find his final job before retirement.
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to your favorite podcast. My name is Jennifer Van Dyke, and I'm the host of Success with ICD. Today I have a very unexpected guest on our podcast. Um, we saw him post his uh snippet of his story on uh his Facebook page or the union's Facebook page, and right away we knew we had to have him on this podcast. And the moment I sent him a Facebook message, he was on board and we've only been talking for what 20 minutes, and he's already had the most amazing story. So, Jeremy, if you could introduce yourself to the podcast world, the floor is yours.
SPEAKER_00Well, hello, world. I'm Jeremy Drabasio from Buffalo, New York, USW Local 135L, uh, formerly of Sumatomo Rubber in Tanawanda, New York.
SPEAKER_02So this is gonna be um a great story because of where you come from, what happened with Sumatomo, which we've kind of heard from Frank a couple of podcasts back, and where ICD got you today. So let's start with your history, Jeremy. Where are you from a line of steelworkers? How did you get a part of Sumatomo? Tell me a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00I was actually retired for a couple years, and I was at home bored, and I decided I needed to do something. So in 2007, well, 2006, I applied to what was then Goodyear.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I was going through the hiring process, and then they went out on strike for 90 days, and then I got hired in January of 2007.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Now, when you say, sorry, it made me chuckle. When you say you were bored, did you like just look around and say, okay, what's next?
SPEAKER_00Pretty much. Yeah, I sold my businesses and um yeah, I just I was 28 years old when I did it. And by the time I reached 30, I was bored. So why I wasn't doing anything.
SPEAKER_02Why the mill?
SPEAKER_00It was something to do. It was a different opportunity. I thought it'd be a little challenging. Um, and to show how naive I was, I thought making tires, they just spewed rubber into a mold and out came a tire. Boy, was I wrong. It was probably one of the most complicated processes I've ever been a part of in my life.
SPEAKER_02So, what was what was your so you don't have a history with steel workers, like your family or anything like that?
SPEAKER_00Nope.
SPEAKER_02So you're a first generation.
SPEAKER_00I was a first generation.
SPEAKER_02What was your first job when you got hired?
SPEAKER_00Um, I worked in our bead shop. Um, I was a hot apexer, well, utility operator, with, but I mostly did hot apexing.
SPEAKER_02And when were your eyes opened? That they don't just pour rubber into a mold.
SPEAKER_00Oh, right on my second or third day of orientation when they were doing a plant tour.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And it was, I think it's it was the factory was 1.5 million square feet, and they're taking us through this building, and there's machines that are like three stories high. And I'm like, yeah, no, this is I didn't think I could do the job. I'm like, there's no way. You know, you're you're intimidated when you see machinery that big, that loud, and and you just see these guys in there that were there for 30 years, some even they're 40 running these machines and they make it look easy. And um, but yeah, I was I was intrigued. I was I said, why not? Let's give it a shot.
SPEAKER_02And what made you stay?
SPEAKER_00Uh it was challenging. Learning new things. I was doing something. I always like work with my hands, and we had a lot of older equipment in there, and it was, you had to have some kind of mechanical aptitude um to do the job. And um, yeah, it was challenging, it was fun. Um, the people I worked with were great. I made a lot of lifelong friendships over the years, and even throughout the closure, I still maintain close friendships with um some of my bosses and other union members that we group chat daily almost.
SPEAKER_02So you kind of found like a brotherhood almost with this new job.
SPEAKER_00We did, and it was weird because um I only had one other union job in my life, okay, and that was at a warehouse that was the Teamsters. And it was a different environment because it's a warehouse job. But this, you know, when I started in my department, I actually went to high school with a guy in my department. So from day one, I had a friend.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, and it just blossomed from there. You know, you start doing stuff outside of work, then your significant others become friends, and um time goes by, and yeah, you watch each you know, you watch each other's kids grow up, um, the different, you know, deaths and births and uh marriages and all that stuff. And it's yeah, you do you build a bond with your brothers and sisters there.
SPEAKER_02So when you started at the mill and you decided to stay, did you move? Was it was it a quick move up? Did you want to try all these different jobs because of the challenge, or did you find a position that you were like, hey, this is this is where I want to stay?
SPEAKER_00Well, when I started Goodyear used us all as utility after the strike, so we had an opportunity to learn it was three or four different jobs in our department, and we would bounce around, you know, from different jobs, different machines, and then ultimately I was able to sign a job, and I signed my job and my shift and had a little bit of normalcy in my life, and then for 14 years, I did second shift on uh the same job.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow, 14 years. Have you always been somebody who embraces the challenge and goes after new things?
SPEAKER_00I do. I need to be challenged, otherwise I get bored.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um I take it that's where the businesses came into play.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Do you want to dive into that a little bit? Because that's to go from selling businesses to the mill, that's a huge jump.
SPEAKER_00It was. Um, you know, I owned a restaurant, my family's in the restaurant business in Buffalo, New York.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I followed in their footsteps. Um, I had some rental properties and some other stuff. And um, yeah, and then we just it was time for a change, time for something new. And we were going to expand our restaurant, and that didn't work out the with the landlord at the time that owned the plaza. And as we were looking for other places, we just decided that wasn't where where my passion was anymore. I was not that I was bored with it because I love being in the kitchen, okay, but it wasn't a challenge anymore. So I needed to find something different, and I took my time. Like I said, I was two years and I found good year done lot. And um, because of the vast amount of different jobs there were in there, I mean I learned new skills constantly. And I'm a person who believes if you live a day and you don't learn something, you're not living. That's just my attitude about everything.
SPEAKER_02You like that?
SPEAKER_00I love learning new things.
SPEAKER_02That quote right there should be on a t-shirt.
SPEAKER_00Oh, give me an idea. That could be my next business.
SPEAKER_02Okay, there you go. Well, we'll keep that going. Um, no, I I completely agree. And I feel like some people think that just because you're getting older, the learning and the challenges need to stop. Like you have to just kind of stay where you are and they become complacent.
SPEAKER_00They don't that's how you get old.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Exactly. And I I wish more people would understand that.
SPEAKER_00Um, like as we were talking before a little earlier, you know, with my wife being a teacher, I learned something new whether I want to or not. You know, and um I think it's a great thing, it really is. And I think when you take that attitude, it affects every other aspect of your life, you know. Um, again, you know, with the plant closing, a lot of people took it personal, they took it difficult, and it's easy to understand why and how they could do that. I know I certainly was a little heartbroken that they closed.
SPEAKER_02Well, I was gonna say, did you see that closure coming at all?
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't want to speak for other people in the factory, but financially they had told us for years that we were hemorrhaging money, tens of millions of dollars a month. Okay, and they did this for almost 10 years.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't, I mean, it was a surprise the way they did it. I personally thought they would have written it out until our contract was up, which was this past December. Um, so it was a bit of a surprise the timing of it, but not a total surprise that they sh finally gave up and shut it down.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So, with that whole thing, so I C D was a part of your contract for years. And during that time, from someone who loves to learn and everything like that, did you jump on ICD right away, or was it something that you kind of pushed to the side because you weren't sure what it was?
SPEAKER_00No, you know, I did overtime a lot, and because of my overtime commitments and the availability of the classes, it didn't fit my schedule.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I when the plant finally closed, that was one of my biggest regrets because it's like everything else with life, you think you have all the time in the world, and then you find out you do not. And when you have these certificates or anything, they can't you knowledge is the one thing they can't take away from you. And I forget the lady's name who was doing it before Mary took over, Mary Ennis was our ICD lady, class act, uh, but Mary came up with this creative thing with these cooking classes and at the at the Niagara Culinary Institute, and we decided my wife and I decided to go do that, and it was a great team building exercise. You're working, you know, you're preparing this meal in a kitchen with your union brothers and sisters and their spouses, and you're getting to know each other on a on a whole other level, and you're getting closer with your union brothers and sisters. And I thought that was great. And I had made up my mind that in January of 2025 I was going to give up my one assignment for overtime so I can take classes and get some sort of certificate or some kind of just something behind me in case something did happen. Well, I never got the chance because they closed in November, but ultimately in that January, um, I did sign up, go through ICD, um, and Erie County had a grant which helped pay for the other stuff too. But it was whereas other people, like I said, they took it personal, and some people are still stagnant, they're working dead-end jobs, not dead-end jobs, but not as good as what we had there. But they didn't they didn't make it in time to take advantage of the ICB program to help fund them. And I took an HVAC class, I got my certificate in HVAC, which opened up countless doors. I mean, I could have gone commercial, residential, refrigeration. Ultimately, I took a job with our transportation authority locally. Why did you go that route? Well, they were gonna hire me for HVAC, and in between the time that they hired me and my start date, they eliminated that position. And they gave me, which is this is funny because you never know what you're gonna learn, the electrician test. And because of my HVAC schooling, I learned just enough electrical to pass that test. So I got hired as an electrician out of HVAC school for a transportation authority, and then I did that for 10 months, and I was out with one of my Sumatomo Union brothers for dinner, who I went to HVAC school with, and he was telling about a job that he landed with uh school district, and he's like, This is great. He was like, We do everything we do plumbing, electrical, grounds, um HVAC, and he was like, the hours are great. Um where I'm at life, I'm getting close to retirement. Okay, so I wanted a I wanted a good pension, and it's a it's a state pension. So I made the switch from the transportation authority to the school district a couple weeks ago, and I love it. I love it, but that's all because of the ICD and taking that class, the HVAC class that opened up them door. Like I said, I took HVAC class and got a job as an electrician, which random.
SPEAKER_02Uh but I also feel like that's kind of your life. Like you kind of just ebbed and flowed wherever life took you. You learned what you could on the way, and you kind of said, Okay, here's an open door, let's walk through it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've I'm not afraid of um challenges or anything new. Like I said, when the plant closed, I took it as an opportunity. Um, I love my job at the factory. It's easy to get, and I I don't want to mean this to sound negative, but it's easy to get sucked into a factory life because the pay's good, the benefits are good. Um, personally, though, I like to grow, I like to gain knowledge and experience. And I took it as an opportunity because now I get to do something new. And you know, how many guys I sit in the brass sit around the break rooms with and like, oh da da da. I wish, I wish I I should have been this, I always wanted to do this. That was your chance. You know, now is your chance to go do it. Stop whining about it, get off your ass and do it. And you know, there's a lot of guys I talked to that that were really in the dumps. And I'll be honest with you, I'm kind of a smart ass. So when I'm talking to these guys and I'm being honest with them, and they were caught off guard. They're like, I can't, I've never heard you talk this way. And I'm like, it's because we're at work, we're joking around. We're but this is serious now. You know, now you gotta do something, you know, you gotta start walking again, one foot in front of the other, figure out what you want to do. Take a couple weeks, take a month, but get a plan, put it together, and execute. You can't stay down forever.
SPEAKER_02There's so many things I want to ask you about that story in particular. Um but let's start with okay, with with you. Do you I shouldn't say wish, but do you almost wish that you went, you could go back and take those classes while you were at the mill instead of doing the overtime now that you see the value of it?
SPEAKER_00Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_02Would you have done it? I could say would you if you knew the value of it?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it well, let me let me say this. Um, my la well, I went through divorce while I was there, so I did need the overtime to get me through the divorce. Okay, because that was tough times. Okay, but outside of that, um my wife now, very supportive, she encouraged me to do it. But like I said, it's easy to get sucked into that life with um the good pay and all that stuff, and you know, but yes, a hundred percent looking back, I would have taken the classes over the overtime because I could have had plumbing certificates, the HVAC, I could have gone to the electrical school. Um, I mean, there's so many different I looked at our catalog at our local community college. I mean, there's the courses you could take are endless.
SPEAKER_02So that leads me to the.
SPEAKER_00Oh, and I don't know if I was afraid to do it or I don't know. But then when push came to shove and I got that kick in the ass from Sumatomo because I didn't have a job anymore, I did it, and I'm glad I did it.
SPEAKER_02What made you take, like you said, there was a vast array of classes. What made you go the HVAC route? Because you're from the restaurant business, then you went to the mill. This is something another thing that's completely different from well, the HVAC isn't.
SPEAKER_00Um, I remember as a kid, I tell people, I was telling people a story at HVAC school. My uncle's friend was a refrigeration guy back in the 80s. Okay. And those guys were, I mean, you looked at them, they dirty, who the hell wants to be that? Well, then you find out how much money they're making because nobody wants to do that work. And you know, that's the problem with skilled trades in this country. Nobody wants to do it because it's it's beneath people, and then they these kids grow up, they go to college, they get these degrees, they got these two loans, and they're looking at their buddies who went to trade school, who are electricians and plumbers, and they're making sometimes more than what they're making. And so HVAC being in the restaurant business, I know how important it is for HVAC, and um, it's very practical, it's all over the board where the options are endless. Like I said, you could do residential, commercial, refrigeration, um, you could do controls. There's so many different ways. Um, stationary uh engineer is that's the gateway to that to run the boiler houses and all that stuff. Um, so I chose HVAC, especially for someone at my age, I'm close to 50 now.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, to go through electrical, um, through the union. By the time you get your journeyman papers, it's five, six years, five years usually. And I would have been in my mid-50s. And at that point, it's tough, you know. Um, same thing with plumber to become a master plumber, it's 10 years over here. And um, HVAC to get to where I wanted to be was offered the quickest path. And after talking with the lady at Erie Wanbose's and doing some research on my own, it was the most one of the most needed trades in the country. So I could literally go anywhere, I could pack my bags and go anywhere in the country and get a job doing HVAC and earn a good living. And that was key to me is what can I do that I could pick up and get me close to where I was before? And HVAC for me at my age was the best opportunity. I love that, and and it proved out to be the best opportunity because I got hired as an electrician and now I'm doing the stuff with the schools, and I'm happy.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say, so tell me tell me what you love about this new job. So is it the hours? Is it the there's an everyday challenge? What's what makes this job so great?
SPEAKER_00Well, I like the hours not as much as my wife likes the hours because we're on the same schedule because she's a school teacher too. Okay, so she's very thrilled about that because I was doing the overnights at the transportation authority, yep. Which I didn't mind the hours, she hated it. I don't remember, but it it's challenging, it's something different every day. Um, today, what do we do today? Today we fixed a um ceiling unit event. We fixed that. We had a super cold day the other day where our temperatures were minus 15 degrees in Buffalo, where we I don't remember a temperature that low my whole life. I lived here my whole life.
SPEAKER_03Really?
SPEAKER_00Um, so that day we were chasing around, and it's funny because the the furnaces were doing what they're supposed to do. They had safeties, the low limits. When it's too cold, they won't kick on. So they're doing what they're designed to do, not kicking on, and we had to go around and get them all running. So that was our first couple hours, and it's go, go, go, and you're doing a little bit of electrical, you know, we're gonna be putting in cameras, um, TVs for the teachers. It's just it's not the same thing every day. I love it. And correct, and you're meeting new people, the different maintenance guys, the principals, the teachers, even students in the hallway. You know, I'm new, these schools are big, I'm getting lost. Hey, kid, can you help me? Oh, absolutely, sir. Here I'll walk you. You know, it's just it's nice to be not confined to a machine or uh uh one small space. Um, so you're getting out, you're meeting new people, you're doing different things all day long. I love it. I lost I just love everything about the job.
SPEAKER_02So this is where you're gonna maybe stay for a while.
SPEAKER_00I would hope so, because it's only 10 years.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm retiring at 60 no matter what.
SPEAKER_02Nice. Yeah, I mean, it sounds and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're working with one of your union brothers, correct? Yes, which makes it even better. So it's like family coming back together.
SPEAKER_00Yep, and it's funny because we worked in the same factory together. We seen each other in passing. He was on different ships in a different department, and when we were In trade school because he also took advantage of the ICD. There was four of us in my school.
SPEAKER_03Oh, he is you. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And um, yeah, we've met at trade school and we've become friends since then. Him, uh, his partner and my wife, um, good friends. We go out. Matter of fact, we're going out for chicken wings tomorrow night after work. Perfect. Um, so yeah, it's a bond in that factory that still is going today.
SPEAKER_02Why do you think you said something that made me think, why do you think people look not look down on the trades, but they kind of pass over the trades? Like you said, you know, these things are needed, jobs are needed, the the skills are needed. Why do you think it's so easily passed over?
SPEAKER_00You want to know why? I do. Because social media, everybody sees these influencers today, they see these, um, and again, nothing wrong with uh with you know an athlete, because I think athletes work their butts off to get where they're at. They make a lot of money, they see these music stars, and they say there's easier ways to make money than that. And when in reality, the reason why those people are so special is because that is not easy. People that do that, they have a gift, they have a talent. Um, not that we're not all gifted and talented, but in different ways, and you know, or you turn on the TV and you see a lawyer in a nice flashy suit. Say, I want to be, you know, but and then you forget, oh, well, I gotta heat and cool my house, or I've got to get electricity in my house, or I've got to take a shower, I've got to flush my toilets. Well, who's gonna do that? Guess what? Because nobody wants to do it, those guys are in high demand, and the pay is out there. And I know there's a global shortage of electricians right now.
SPEAKER_02So, what would you think about this next generation that's coming up? Now that you've you've been through so many different avenues, what would you tell this next generation to look for to do the trades?
SPEAKER_00Get in a trade. You'll you'll finance your financial future will be much better off in the trades. I think the schools are starting to push trade schools more, um, starting in the elementary grades. You know, where when I was in school, I graduated in '94, um, everything was college. You know, they were trying to get everybody into white-collar jobs, white-collar jobs. And I mean, let's be honest, um, college isn't for everybody. No, um, a lot of people are smart, but they're just smart with working with their hands.
SPEAKER_02Angry.
SPEAKER_00Um, and two, another thing is, you know, when I the last kid I trained there at Sumatomo, sweet kid, great young kid, super friendly, wanted to learn. He was, I believe he was 20 years old, never touched a tool in his life. So I had to teach him how to use tools before I could teach him how to do the job. And it's not that you know his dad didn't want to, it's that he didn't need to because dad would either call somebody to fix it or just throw it out and go buy another one.
SPEAKER_02Well, do you think there's a certain value of having those skills?
SPEAKER_00100%.
SPEAKER_02Even if it's not like your full-time job, just those skills in general are important.
SPEAKER_00Why do you think I consider that basic life skills to be able to turn a wrench, to be able to fix your own faucet or what have you, instead of having to call somebody, but people can't do it. Hence, we need tradespeople.
SPEAKER_02That's that's the line. That's I mean, that's amazing. I completely agree with you. And the more people that I talk to, um, it just surprises me with how easily people push the trades to the side. But everyone also knows it's we all need it. So, you know, the balance isn't there yet. I think you're right where schools are starting to see that and they're starting to push those things again. I really don't know why we got away from it in the education world, but um, we can I mean we don't have enough time to talk about why they did that.
SPEAKER_00Um but yeah, I mean they they had an agenda and they didn't want they didn't want our kids doing these jobs, it's beneath us. That's what they thought. Americans were were above all that, and they wanted all their kids to be doctors and lawyers and computer programmers, they wanted us to be white-collar, and what they realized was no, that those jobs weren't going anywhere. That the people who were doing them, they wanted their kids to do them, you know. Manufacturing is still here, we still need electricians, plumbers. We need these guys, and um, it took long enough for everyone to figure out that we need tradespeople in this country, and we got to start getting people into the trades again.
SPEAKER_02Well, that and see the value of it, see the value of all of those trades and all of those skills, and how you know they're they're up there, they're just up there with lawyer and doctor and everything like that.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02Um, maybe even more so in in certain ones.
SPEAKER_00So AI is not gonna fix a broken drain line, AI is not gonna wire a house. Um, so we need them, and we need them bad.
SPEAKER_02I'm I'm glad you put that message out there. Um so I guess the last the last big thing is I'm so happy you used I C D to get to a place. Um, I guess when you used ICD, let's kind of take it back a little bit. You used it in the first culinary school or not culinary school, but a culinary class. And you used it just for after the shutdown, is when you went after your HVAC.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_02How did you hear about the ICD benefit? Was it at a um orientation? Was it through a buddy?
SPEAKER_00How did you get familiar with always there? Well, not always there. I think they I don't know if it was always there or it came in one of the contracts after I started. But Mary was out there. Mary would be when you walked in our plant, it was a long narrow hallway, and Mary was there passing out like she was selling it, like she was a kid on the side of the road selling lemonade, you know. Here, try this, try this, try this. And um Mary really pushed it and got it in our faces. So if you before Mary, if you really if you wanted it, you had to go seek it out. Okay, it was um it was a task to go find out about ICD. Okay, and um, but Mary brought herself in the factory on the floor, made herself available, and then with those little classes, and it wasn't just a cook, the cooking was the ones I did. She did some sausage making, she did um drone classes, they did um concrete countertops. Um, she had a bunch of other uh classes that they did for groups, and um they were super popular. And when she did that, and she really pushed the ICD into the forefront of other people's minds to say, hey, I know this isn't just for this little stuff, maybe I could take something else. And I know there are a couple other people did take some stuff, got them started in their path to uh physical therapy, nursing. So it was a great, I mean, obviously, it doesn't cover the whole cost of like a nursing program, but it gets you in the door, and um then it's up to you. You make the decision if if you want to pursue it and invest in yourself or not. And that's so when Mary Ennis came and took over our ICD. Um, yeah, she's the one who really sold it to the membership.
SPEAKER_02I from my experience, I had the opportunity to work with Mary for a couple of years when I first got hired. Her her and I did a lot together, and she is just a quality, quality person that really loved the program and really really valued you guys. So I'm not surprised that she'd be out there trying to get you guys to use it.
SPEAKER_00Well, she had a vested interest too, right? Because her husband worked there, Chris. And I met Chris a couple of times, we're not close and not on a first name basis, but just in the factory. I've met him a couple times. But I will say Mary was definitely passionate about this program. She was, and I don't know why she was so passionate or invested, but I'm glad she was um and made herself available to us at all times. Because without an ICD director like that, I think that was her title or coordinator. Um, those programs like ICD are only as good as the person running them. And um, yeah, I'm just very thankful Mary was running our program.
SPEAKER_02So so am I. She's helped so many people, and um, we we were definitely and still are very thankful for her. So I'm so glad you you talked about her like that because I do think that was very important, as well as if you have a great person running the center, it gets people like you through the door, which is again it's not she's not paying me to say that, she probably doesn't even know who I am. But um you'd be surprised. She remembers a lot of you guys.
SPEAKER_00She she remembers she deserves all the credit in the world for that program being as as successful as it was at the Sumatoma plant. And kudos to her, and thank you, Mary, if you're listening.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna say hopefully, Mary, I'm gonna make sure you listen to this one because yeah, definitely a good shout out. Um, I guess the last thing, Jeremy, that I want to ask you before we end this podcast is um people all over the United States who have this in their contract constantly tell us, I don't have time for this, there's no value in it, you know, move on. From your experience, what would you tell those people today?
SPEAKER_00Well, the first thing I'm gonna tell them to do is turn on the TV and watch the news.
SPEAKER_02Why?
SPEAKER_00Because we didn't expect it to happen to us, it can sure as hell happen to you, and you don't have the time to not do it. Because the last thing you want to do is get caught with your pants down because you're too busy going out playing golf or whatever you were doing to invest in yourself. Nobody else is gonna invest in you. The the ICD program is there to help you, take it.
SPEAKER_02I could not have said that better myself. That was that's that was beautiful. Um, and I agree with it 100%. So, any of you guys who are listening, if you have any questions for Jeremy or questions for me, as always, you can contact me at jvandyck at icdlearning.org or you can comment on any of our uh social media posts. We will definitely respond to you. And if you have questions directed to Jeremy, we'll make sure we get those to him as well. Um, other than that, Jeremy, this was a fantastic conversation. I'm so thankful and blessed to have had this time with you. Um, I know you not only kind of inspired me, but I know you're gonna be inspiring others who listen to this.
SPEAKER_00So thank you so much for and I appreciate you reaching out to me, Jenny, and giving me the opportunity to do this.
SPEAKER_02Always. Yeah, we'll definitely keep in contact and see uh maybe in five years you'll start four more businesses or do something else in your retirement.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I'm already getting some gray hair now. I don't think I want any more gray hair.
SPEAKER_02You never know.
SPEAKER_00Knowing you, you never know is right.
SPEAKER_02Um, so thank you so much. And and uh we'll definitely keep the conversation going.
SPEAKER_00Definitely. Thank you, Jenny.
SPEAKER_02Of course.
