SEASON 3: Ep. 1 Leading With Purpose: An Interview with Dr. Humphrey at Carlow University

In this episode, Carlow University President Kathy W. Humphrey shares her leadership story, shaped by her experience as a first-generation college student, her faith, and her lifelong comfort with navigating uncertainty. She reflects on Carlow’s founding mission to meet “the next great need” and how that legacy continues to guide the University’s growth today. Dr. Humphrey discusses entrepreneurial leadership in higher education, the importance of meeting students and employers where they are, and how staying grounded in purpose helps leaders navigate constant change, criticism, and challenge.

This podcast is sponsored by Viv Higher Education 

About Viv Higher Education

Viv Higher Education is a Boston-based, female-owned comprehensive marketing agency specializing in higher education. With expertise in strategic planning, creative asset development, and media campaigns, we focus on enrollment-centric initiatives. Our approach is grounded in industry best practices, ensuring precision in reaching target audiences. We have extensive experience in marketing to diverse groups, including high school students, Hispanic, military, LGBTQ+, international students, and online learners. Navigating the complex landscapes of university environments is second nature to us, and we prioritize fostering collaborations that yield mutually beneficial outcomes. With a personable, nimble, and highly responsive approach, we deliver tailored solutions to empower organizations to achieve their objectives.

Website: https://vivhied.com/ 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/viv-higher-ed/

Transcript

Kathy, thank you so much for joining today. I'm very excited to be talking with you. How are you?

I'm great. Thank you for having me. Very excited to hear about your leadership journey, and maybe you can talk a little bit about Carlow University, where you currently president, and what got you into that role. What has your journey been like? Sure. So Carlow University is an institution that was created initially to meet the next great need, and that next great need was to provide an education for those who otherwise would not have been provided an education.

At that time, it was Catholic women and also Jewish women who weren't being accepted into many other institutions of higher education. So Carlow was created to meet that need and to this day. We are still. institution that provides opportunities to those who otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity in addition to those who do have an opportunity, to get a college education.

So we are doing work on both sides of that coin we have about twenty four hundred and fifty six students here at Carlow. We are grateful that we have been growing for the last five years, and, we are growing by being intensely. Who we are. And what I mean by that is we are growing because we are looking at what's the next great need?

what do employers need? what is going to be the need for the next century? And we are creating and developing curriculum and programs around that next great need and who are the people we're supposed to help. And we're developing programs around People that we are as an institution was created to help and we continue to help this day.

I came to Carlow from the University of Pittsburgh, a very large 32,000. at that point, they may be bigger, today, and I came down the street literally because Carlow, is about two blocks from the University of Pittsburgh. And I walked down the street 

to do t his 

amazing work. I loved the work that I was doing at the University of Pittsburgh, but this work is even more of my calling because this work is really about taking, individuals and people and, helping them to understand that to who much is given, much is required.

It's an institution with a set of values that resonates with me personally, and the work, while extremely hard, all at the same time, extremely rewarding. Thank you. It sounds like there's an obsession with the customer, with the student that is at the heart of your growth story over the last five years and what they're gonna need to succeed in the world, which is.

Amazing and explains why you have been growing when many institutions have not. Right? Because there's maybe not always that willingness to understand exactly what our employers looking for. What are students looking for? How can we equip them? And then you just said how meaningful this work to you is personally.

So I'm curious, could you explain, you know, how your early life, shaped you as the leader that you are today, and how you're bringing those early life lessons to your leadership at Carlow? So I would say, I was a first generation student. my parents moved from the deep south to the Midwest with the hopes that their children would get an education, a better education.

and so I am the recipient of that move. and I don't take that lightly. both of my parents are deceased and I would believe that they would be a little amazed of what I do today, given what they hoped would happen, for their children. And so I'm grateful for their courage, their boldness, because I really am standing on their courage and their boldness and their hopes and their dreams,

and I have been able to take unfortunate situations and turn some of them into fortunate situations. And I have learned from every failure, that I have experienced and I just as many successes. Most people don't talk about the failure portion of it, but the failure portion of it is important because the failure portion of it is how you gain the grit to stand back up.

And keep moving and keep going. And I would say because of my past, I am probably a little bit more grittier. I am probably a little, less fearful. and because of my faith, my thinking around what is possible is probably a little bit more expansive. And some might even say not even realistic, but that is how I have learned how to maneuver and move.

The way you describe being a first generation student also illustrates probably that you didn't have an easy road, right to get where you are now. I'm a first generation student too. And, I think generally speaking, there are more hurdles and more internal self-doubt, and external hurdles. And so the qualities that you just described, the grittiness, the lower level of fear, the bold optimism that comes from your faith and from that journey.

Those are entrepreneurial qualities, right? So if we're thinking about campus leadership today where there's so much uncertainty about the future of higher education, certainly a lot of consolidation and everybody has to work harder for the students that they get on their campus. It's great to have those qualities in a leader because you're gonna be willing to make some bolder moves then maybe many other college presidents.

So that's awesome. You have also in your. Writings and interviews that I looked at described, how from an early age you had to learn to live in two worlds and sort of show up in both worlds. Can you talk about that a little bit and how do you carry that into your leadership now? So, I am a child of, the sixties and, I, Started going to school shortly after the Civil Rights Act, was enacted. And so I was a part of the anti-discrimination policies, where they sent black children to white schools. And, I, was, one of those children that was taken outta my neighborhood every single day.

And I rode, a city bus, to the white neighborhood as a kindergarten by myself. and I, went to Afternoon, kindergarten, every day in the white neighborhood. And every day I'd ride back to my neighborhood. And I had to learn to live in two worlds. And I quickly learned that I was in two very, very, very different environments.

If you can imagine, you know, what it looked like, what it felt like. What you were surrounded with every day was different. And so quickly I learned how to just like any other child would learn who was in a bicultural, Home, very quickly I learned how to communicate two different ways and that's really been helpful to me.

There wa there was a lot of discussion about whether or not my parents should move me because of some of the challenges that I was facing, in that environment. And my parents decided not to move me. To make me, um, withstand that. And at the time, I didn't think much about it. I, I knew I was uncomfortable, but my discomfort did not move them, to put me in a more comfortable situation.

And today I look back at that and, and I'm grateful because I'm in uncomfortable situations all the time. And I am comfortable in uncomfortable situations because I have endured them, for Most of my life. and I have skills to manage different kinds of environments because of that beginning, of my life.

my kindergarten really began everything, if I, can kind of think about it from that standpoint, but this whole notion of, understanding that at the end of the day, we're all humans. At the end of the day, we all have the same basic needs. We get at things differently. We come to conclusions differently based on the lenses that we live in.

And that's very helpful, as a leader to be reminded constantly that just because you see it that way does not mean that somebody else sees it that way just because you think it does not make it right. And I, I say that often. And the reality is, is that, I think every leader has to, be able to try to see things from other perspectives.

You know, if I get a letter that's complaining about something I've done, which I do, or something that the institution is or is not doing, I take the letter to heart and it doesn't mean I'm gonna change. It does mean that I need to examine that perspective and I need to try to understand why they feel like they feel, because sometimes I do change, based on what I've learned from the criticism, but I'm not one to shy away from criticism.

I'm one to walk at and into criticism to say, tell me more. Tell me how I could have done it better from your lens. Because I did it the best way. I knew how to do it from my lens, but clearly that didn't make you comfortable, right? So how could I have done the same thing in a way that would have made you feel, more Included and more a part of, and less demeaned.

And that skillset that you're describing about listening and actively engaging with criticism, it does boil down to discomfort as well, right? Because you, you have to get uncomfortable to engage with a situation or a criticism that is targeting you. And that's a critical leadership skill that many people fail at because they haven't learned how to get uncomfortable the way that you.

Had to learn. So that's a really beautiful, I think, connection between what you, experienced as a young child and how you're showing up now as a leader. And I'm specifically, interested in leadership in higher education and on campuses Right now, it's just a really challenging role, the role of the president in higher education right now, because it's virtually impossible to make everyone happy and the stakes are really, really high.

So, you know, we talk a lot about. What does it take to go into the office every day and give you a very best, and at the end of the day feel like you can sustain this? The tenure of presidents has gotten so short under five years on average because I think many leaders are just getting burnt out. So it's beautiful to hear you talk about the, faith, the internal reserves that you have, the comfort with discomfort that you've had to develop, that you now appreciate, and then the grit and the.

entrepreneurial qualities that you're bringing to your work. And, can you describe a little bit when you hear that term, entrepreneurial leadership in higher education, what does that mean to you? What would you say, would take that idea from theory to practice? Perhaps there as an example of how you feel like Carlow has been particularly entrepreneurial or you've been able to be particularly entrepreneurial As a leader there?

That's interesting. So I don't think you have a choice. we must be entrepreneurial. We are walking into territory, as an industry that we've never been in. We've never been challenged and faced with, you must change. We've always had the option of changing. We've always had the option of trying to do some things differently.

We no longer had an option. So entrepreneurship innovation is how. We have to, move  it is a part of our existence. It's, it's not something that we can elect. it is the main course, right? If you're not innovative, if you're not entrepreneurial, if you're not willing to take some risk, you're not going to survive in this environment unless you are so big and so rich that it doesn't matter.

Which I am neither. So it matters and it matters every single day. we are thinking out of the box and we are reinventing ourselves on a constant basis. It's just like my first few years as president, I could work more so in-house and try to get the house straightened up my next few years in the presidency, I have to work all externally in order to bring business into the house.

it's not that I don't enjoy, being in the house. It's just that the reality is, is that this is what I must do in order to have a good, solid institution.  📍   Love that. And then also linking it because you said you were pounded by the Sisters of Mercy and they were themselves entrepreneurial in their day because they opened up this education to people who didn't have access to it before. And how do you feel like their spirit still shows up?

I mean, you touched on this a little bit at the beginning, but concretely, how do you feel like what you're doing now where you have to be entrepreneurial, have to be innovative, have to take risks? How is that showing up? In a very authentic manner that still connects to your founding as well. I, you know, I often say that, uh.

In another life, I could have easily been a sister of Mercy, because I so identify with those women. you talk about gritty, , determined, women, entrepreneurial, innovative. they started this university and hospitals all over this country and universities all over this country with nothing.

Absolutely nothing. And every time I remember that, stopped feeling sorry for myself, right? Because they did this work with nothing. And the impact that they have made in this country is nothing short of remarkable. Right? And so every day,  I, have them to look at, to say they came here when women had only started voting maybe two or three years, They opened up a school, they opened up hospitals. These are women who, who just got the right to vote in this country. And so they had a lot of nos standing in their way.

They took those nos and turned them into yeses, and that's what we have to do every single day, right? They cared about, they cared enough about their work. They cared enough about making a difference, that they were willing to do what it took in order to make that difference real. And that difference has materialized all over this country.

Incredibly inspiring. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Speaking the nos, turning them into yeses, building incredible institutions from absolutely nothing. That is so inspiring. And so when you talk about, um, entrepreneurial initiatives that Carlow, what comes to mind where you have had to take a big risk and you did it and it succeeded, or maybe there were some failures along the way, but you built something meaningful anyway.

What comes to mind? So when I say we've grown our enrollment by en being intensely who we are, I, went into the hospitals and said, what do you need? , And of course, nurses is what they needed. And, and I said, what kind of nurse? They said, we need all kinds of nurses.

Right. And so we made a decision to start an LPN program here. Now we did that for several reasons. Most universities do not do LPN. Could you say the acronym LPN fully so that people know what it Sure. So an LPN is a licensed practical nurse. it's one step before the RN and, .

What I noticed, not only, at Carlow, I noticed it when I was at the University of Pittsburgh as well. A lot of people who wanted to be the nurses never became nurses. And the reason why they didn't become nurses is because the sciences, if you don't have a background, if you don't have the academic muscle.

The chances of you, being able to survive the sciences that must be survived in order to, become a nurse, , diminishes very quickly. And so, , , in talking to a lot of folks about what the needs were. saw that same need here at Carla. We had people who wanted to be nurses. We are in desperate need of nurses, and we didn't do those kinds of programs at that point.

And so I had to get the program through, our processes and convince our faculty that this is something that was at the heart of who we are. That it would indeed provide opportunities to people to become nurses that. Wanted to be nurses that will never become a nurse if they don't have a place where they can start to build their academic, scientific muscle.

and they did the, the faculty, agreed to doing that. And, you know, when we first started, there was a little bit of a, a angst and a little bit of concern, but once we started it. once we got that first cohort in, and once we saw that these women who were making less than $30,000, some of them less than $30,000 a year, could double their income to $60,000 a year, within 16 months, could get a $10,000 signing bonus if they finish the licensure exam.

Literally, literally. Changing their lives, most of the people in our first cohort were single mothers. not only did it change their lives, it changed generations, right? Because now their mom, is a professional woman who has been to college and who now has the ability to go and get an RN if she wants one.

More so she changes their family financial dynamics because within 16 months she's able to literally, it's probably more like 24 months by the time they take the licensure exam. what she's able to do, she could not do before. So, , a little risky, , but finding the right partners. Meeting the needs of students, and meeting the needs of the community all at the same time is what we do.

Our surgical tech program has a very similar story, ? Surgeries, were being canceled because we didn't have enough surgical techs in the hospital, so we set up right, we'll start a surgical tech program and we were able to place, all nine of our first cohort. All nine of them stayed right here in Pittsburgh.

All nine of them impacted our community. by increasing the surgical tech team, that's the kind of risk taking, doing things differently, not doing things the same, that must be taken in order to meet people's needs where they are. I love so much about what you just shared. Number one, I love that you were able to.

Bridge, you know, employer needs with also the socioeconomic opportunities that this creates for your graduates and that there's a real alignment there. And then what you just said about, risk taking you know, I think there's always a temptation in higher education to do a, a long. Market research study and figure out what everyone else is doing and what programs they're starting.

And your story is much scrappier because you went directly to the hospitals and you asked them what do you need? And you understood how this was going to really change your graduates lives. So I think for people listening, right, market research doesn't have to be half a million dollars in 18 months long.

It can be conversations with the people who are ultimately gonna hire your alumni. And then finally, what I really love as well is just how you're tying it to the, healthcare space. You know, there's such a clear niche there that you can fill. my question for you is,  I think a lot of higher ed leaders, they run into a challenge with, the governance process.

So a leader might be entrepreneurial and might be doing what you're doing. They may, feel like they have all the answers about. What needs to happen and what programs need to be sunsetted, what programs need to be implemented, but they can't do it because there's this governance structure that makes it impossible to do anything much less, do anything quickly.

So what was that like for you, and do you think that it makes a big difference when the president is the sponsor of, these program ideas versus somebody who is maybe not as influential, , in getting them approved and launched and, and shortening that cycle? So what I will say is that I had  to manage the governance process.

The university president never gets to just say, this is what we're gonna do unless it's substantially, business focused. There are times when I say, this is what we're gonna do. but then there are other times where I, have to use the process and the curriculum is one of those things where you've got to convince the faculty, so I've gotta be persuasive enough to the faculty that, A, this is a need.

B, this is our vision. B, this matches our mission. And see, if we don't do it, who's gonna do it? So it wasn't a matter of, I didn't have to go through the process of our shared governance. I did have to convince our shared governance process is that this was going to be advantageous not only to the students, not only to the community.

It was gonna be advantageous to Carlow. I think we have 44 students in that program now. That is huge for a institution the size of Carlow, and so it has worked out where it has really, helped us provide the difference we want to make. In addition, it's helped us to increase our enroll.

It's a win-win. And when it's a win-win, it's a win for the faculty. It's a win for the administration. It's a win. My faculty are my partners. They are not somebody that stands outside of me. We are partners. We are hinged together. and because of that, the shared governance process feels a little bit different here because I truly believe I can't do this work without 'em.

I don't even wanna do this work without them. if I can't partner with them to get it done, I may as well go someplace else where I can. Good point, and I think. Based on what you described earlier about your comfort with discomfort, I'd imagine that it's not always, an immediate win when anybody tries to convince anybody of something, right?

Like there are probably going to be people who have questions and who aren't immediately convinced that it should happen, right? But the process that you described where you then listen and you actively engage with it, makes it a lot easier. And I, I can see that as a core skill set to navigate the shared governance process.

Yes. No matter what position you hold in an institution, right? Mm-hmm. That's right. Well. I would love to know if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who is, maybe a little bit earlier in their higher ed leadership journey and is looking to have a big impact and to take an institution from good to great, if you will, what advice would you give them?

I mean, you've covered a lot of really great, I think, principles of leadership and entrepreneurial leadership, but to just sum it up, what kind of a, pep talk would you give them? Because we all know they're having, hard days, they're having long days. It's not always going according to their vision.

What would you say to them?

I would say, to them, what I said to some presidents last week when I spoke to them is that your why has to be intact. Why do you choose to do this? Your why's intact. You can weather the storm and  there are storms. And there are continuous storms, and there's always gonna be storms, and there's always gonna be problems, and there's always gonna be something that you've gotta manage.

But if your why is intact, why am I sitting in this seat? Why am I doing this work? If I can remember my why, and I can visit my why, often, then I can stay focused on the importance of this work. You know, how do you visit your why? You visit, your why, when you go to the dining hall and sit with random students and talk with them about their experience.

That's why I'm here. They're a part of my why, right? Love that I visit, I visit my why. When I say at commencement, if you're the first person to graduate from college or get a master's or doctorate degree, and they stand up and over 50% of my students stand up, I'm visiting my why. Those things keep me focused.

They keep me directed. They help me to understand why I'm gonna withstand the winds and the storms that are always present in this position. And if you can remember your why. On the roughest day, you can move across and over that chasm. that is very difficult for most folks. I heard somebody say last week, this is the hardest job I ever loved.

And that's how you, that's where you've gotta be. You know, this is the hardest job I have ever loved. and this work, you must love this work in order to do this work. Because it's too hard not to love it. It's too hard to do it because you can, it's too hard to do it because you understand it. You gotta be called to it.

It's gotta be something you were designed and purpose to do. And if you are called to it, you will figure out how to answer it.

That is extremely motivating. I know to many who are listening who are maybe. Struggling to always have their why front and center, because it is really hard, right? It is hard to keep it front and center when the hard days don't get a lot of easy days in between. And, um, I know in, in this academic year and, last academic year, there have been many headwinds.

So I know leaders will really appreciate this interview and, listening to it and, harvesting some fresh inspiration from it. Great. Thank you so much for being here. You're so welcome, and I hope you have an amazing new year.