Good Enough Isn't

The Power of Story: What AI Can't Replace

• Patrick Patterson

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 49:47

Send us Fan Mail

The Power of Story: What AI Can't Replace
Featuring LaQuita Cleare, Founder of Clear Communication Academy

Episode Summary

In a world where AI can generate content on demand, the ability to tell a genuine, human story has never mattered more. LaQuita Cleare, founder of Clear Communication Academy and a communication coach who has worked with leaders across more than 50 countries, joins Myles and Patrick to make the case that storytelling has moved from important to essential. The conversation opens with a sharp observation: AI has leveled the playing field on information, which means the only thing that separates a forgettable leader from a memorable one is the stories they tell and how well they tell them.

LaQuita traces her path from an eight-year-old rejection outside a Chicago theater workshop all the way through years in Hollywood as an actress and producer, and explains how those experiences shaped the framework she now teaches executives. She unpacks what she calls the Engagement Code, connection plus content plus delivery equals engagement, and walks through why most leaders skip the connection piece entirely and wonder why their teams, prospects, and audiences are not moved. The Hollywood analogy runs throughout: leaders who do not know who they are outside of their title cannot tell a compelling story, and audiences can feel that immediately.

The episode closes with a nuanced take on AI in the storytelling space. LaQuita draws a clear line between using AI as a ghostwriter (reductive, often damaging) and using it as a thought partner to mine your own experiences and find the stories worth telling (genuinely powerful). Patrick shares how he extracted years of meeting transcripts to surface the stories he was already telling without realizing it, and LaQuita ties it all back to what AI cannot replace: presence, authenticity, and the willingness to fully commit to your own story.

What You'll Learn

  • Why LaQuita says storytelling went from "important" to "essential" in the age of AI
  • The lesson she took from her first rejection at age eight and how it still shapes her approach today
  • What Hollywood taught her about separating personal identity from professional outcomes, and why more leaders need to make that separation
  • How the Engagement Code (Connection + Content + Delivery = Engagement) applies to everything from sales calls to company town halls
  • Why small, everyday stories are often more powerful than blockbuster moments, and how the belief you have in your own story determines how others receive it
  • The right way and the wrong way to use AI in your communication and storytelling practice
  • Why every leader needs their own value story, not just the company's version of it

Featured Guest

LaQuita Cleare is the founder of Clear Communication Academy and the creator of the Engagement Code framework. She has coached CEOs, politicians, royal families, and Fortune 500 leaders on the stages and in the boardrooms of more than 50 countries. Before building her academy, LaQuita spent years in Hollywood as an actress and producer, where she learned the mechanics of storytelling from the inside out. She holds a master's degree in psychology and brings together the science of human behavior and the art of performance to help leaders communicate in ways that inspire action, not just understanding. Her work is rooted in a simple conviction: brilliant people lose the room every day because they lead with logic and skip the connection.

Connect With LaQuita

Connect With the Show

How to Support the Show

If this episode hit, the best thing you can do is leave a review and share it with one person who needs to hear it. It helps more people find the show, and it means the world to the team.

LaQuita Cleare

I love how stories help us build common ground. We can be completely different from completely different cultures, but there are so many moments that we can tell a story and someone can relate to it in some sort of way because the theme is universal, and then we connect across culture. It's beautiful.

Myles Biggs

We believe it's imperative to be relentless for results because if you're not, your competitor is. We're obsessed with how to be better every day because that's what our customers deserve. And if you can set aside your ego, if you can truly be no ego, then we are the show to help you go all in, because good enough isn't. What's up, everyone? This is your host, Myles Biggs, once again, and today, Patrick and I are here with LaQuita Cleare. LaQuita has walked onto stages in over 50 countries, coached CEOs, politicians, royal families, and Fortune 500 companies, and earlier this year, brought down the house at our company summit for Level Agency. She's the founder of Clear Communication Academy, the creator of "The Engagement Code," and a wonderful guest. LaQuita, welcome to "Good Enough Isn't." LaQuita, we're gonna talk about a lot today, but before we get into that, I wanna set the stage with a bit of what's happening in the macro, which seems like you can't open any sort of news app without seeing AI this, AI that. And as we dig into your background with storytelling, I'm curious to hear from you, why is storytelling important today in a world where artificial intelligence is the headline? 'Cause it feels like storytelling requires a lot of human intelligence. So take it away.

LaQuita Cleare

I think storytelling went from important to essential. I think it is essential now if you want to connect with people, if you want to have a team that's productive All of those things, you need to tell stories, especially now with AI. I think previously you could get away with just being smart. Just being smart, just being knowledgeable. That's still great, but now AI has leveled the playing field so much in the world, no one needs you to deliver information to them. No one needs that. They can go and type in and get information on anything. People need to hear experiences now. People need stories. People need to have a meeting with a company and be able to connect with someone and not just have someone trying to sell them on a solution. So now I think stories are essential and they have to be part of your toolkit as a leader, and also just personally, it's something that you really need to think through as we move deeper and deeper into AI.

Myles Biggs

So totally agree. And speaking of stories, we're gonna dive into yours first. I'd love to know, based on everything you've done up until this point, whether it's acting, speaking, producing, writing, and I'm sure much more, how would you describe your journey to this point if you could only use three words?

LaQuita Cleare

Stage, Hollywood, fun.

Myles Biggs

So now obligatory follow-up questions is I'd love to know more about why those three. So why stage?

LaQuita Cleare

A stage because from a young age I did theater and that was also stage I think was the first time I started getting rejected in my life at like eight. So that's why I would pick that because I think that shaped me. Hollywood because it's Hollywood. That's how you learn storytelling, and fun because that's what I do every day.

Myles Biggs

Well, let's go back. I wanna spend more time on the stage. So at eight years old, you're getting rejected, on a stage apparently. So there's a story there. What was going on at such a young age that you had to deal with re- rejection?

LaQuita Cleare

I didn't even get to the stage. I was rejected before I got to the stage. And I-- not to call people out completely, but I'm gonna do that a little bit. I don't know if you know Jeremy Piven. Everybody knows Jeremy Piven, "Entourage," all of that. So there's this Piven Theater workshop that was in Evanston. I'm from Illinois, and I went to audition there as a young child, and at one point they said we had to act like animals. So we each got to pick an animal, and we were supposed to act this out. And even at that age, I, I think I was a bit self-conscious and I thought it was stupid. So everybody committed to making the noises and acting like this animal. I don't even remember what I got now, but I do remember that I was like, "I'm not doing this." So I kind of half-heartedly did the animal noises, and that was my first rejection, and they told me why. They wanted me to fully commit. They wanted me to not be afraid to look like an idiot. Of course, they didn't call me an idiot at eight years old, but I, I think that has stuck with me. At the time, I was just crying in the car with my mother, but later is when we kind of put the lessons together. So that really shaped me, I think, a lot.

Patrick Patterson

Well, what was the lesson? What did you-- So I, I love these moments, you know, and I, I think they're such good I mean, I don't love you crying in the car, right? I don't love you getting rejected, but I love moments when we're in them that feel, feel like one thing, and then we look back years later and decades later, and we realize that we're pulling a lesson and we're pulling, who we are as people from these moments. So, like, what did that teach you as you went forward?

LaQuita Cleare

Ooh, it taught me so many things. One thing is I think we're all on in a certain way. We wanna be seen a certain way so that many times I think we're not going for it. We're not stepping out of our comfort zone. So one piece of this is fully commit. Another piece of it is don't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone. Another piece of it is being willing to take direction, which somehow that kept coming back in my life, especially in theater, in Hollywood. Some people take direction very well, and then others are like, "No, I'm, I'm not doing that." So I have gotten-- I think those were the three big lessons that I've taken out of it, and now I'm not afraid to commit to things, and I'm not afraid of being judged in the same way. That's taken me a long time to get there, but I'm not afraid of the judgment that I was afraid of for so long in my life

Patrick Patterson

I mean, I, I think you know this. I grew up as a theater kid, and, and the rejection, the self-consciousness, right? And, for me, I, you're much better than me. A lot of that still sticks with me. I'm still very self-conscious, when it comes to performing or doing keynotes or, anything like that, and afraid to look, afraid to look like, you know, I don't know what I'm talking about or afraid to, be judged by the other people. So that's awesome. And those moments, it's really interesting, right? Like, we have these moments, and I remember getting turned down for shows, and I remember, you know, all of those things. Everyone who's been in theater has those memories. And, thinking it was the end of the world and thinking like, "Oh, I'm, I'm never gonna recover from this," and then realizing that, A, it was just a blip, and B, there's gr- there's amazing lessons to learn. So, like, what made you after that, after age eight and h- that car ride, what made you wanna keep going? Like why, wh- why not just give up in that moment?

LaQuita Cleare

I think I was always sort of attracted to the arts. So I was always, I was a dancer. I was in theater. So I just... I don't know that at the time it was a conscious decision of me saying, "Oh, screw you, I'm gonna do it anyways." I feel like it was a mix of I was doing what I wanted to do, and when you also operate in a place of you don't realize until you become an adult that you can really fall hard on your head. You're kind of like a kid, so then you go to the next play. Also, my mom, I feel like, was constantly putting me in things, taking me to tryouts. So I also had that family support. I had someone to say, "Yeah, I'll take you to that audition," or, "Yeah, I'll enroll you in that class." So I kinda kept moving. So yeah, I remember in high school having this theater instructor, because I was so into it, and this theater instructor of mine was like, "Here, help other people. You really love this. You're really into it." So I kinda got plucked from an early age to help other people do the exercises and things like that. And somehow I've always signed myself up to be rejected. If I told you how many times I've been rejected, but somehow I always keep signing up. And sometimes it was like I was about to win, and then in the 11th hour, it's kinda like you go to the playoffs, and then in the 11th hour, you lose the final playoff game. That's been me in a lot of scenarios.

Myles Biggs

How do you pivot from the rejection into something else, right? You wouldn't keep signing up for it if you didn't see value in it or be able to turn it into something else. So I'm just wondering how you do that.

LaQuita Cleare

I just don't think that I can't do things. I don't think there's things that are truly off limits for me. I think that is the big mindset shift that's happened for me. But I, I think it's always been a part of my makeup to a certain extent. So when you don't think there's something that exists that you truly can't do, even if you get rejected, it doesn't really dawn on you, "Oh yeah, I should go do something else." If, if I wanna do something, I'm going to do it, and I've always had that attitude. So if I try out for something, I don't get it, yes, it may sting in that moment, but I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna do the next one." And I always had this in my mi- running in my mind that I can do something else or that maybe I go to 50 auditions and I've got-- and I have 50 of them I got turned down, but I'm like, in my mind, "Oh, the 51st, I'm gonna get it." Call it ignorance or excitement or whatever, grit, whatever you want, but I always have this in my mind that I can do it if I wanna do it. I think I'm an eternal optimist

Myles Biggs

Sounds like it. Yeah, 'cause a lot of people would stop at 49 rather than push to 51. But it's like the singular failure isn't terminal, it's not the end. It's just the step- No on towards what the main goal is that's- Bigger than any one opportunity that you do or don't get.

LaQuita Cleare

Correct.

Myles Biggs

Which is a hard lesson for some people, and I'm assuming it's a lesson you learned, to your second word, in your Hollywood chapter. So for people that might not know that part about you, could you give us a brief overview of, of why you chose that word and what happened in Hollywood for you?

LaQuita Cleare

I-- Hollywood shaped me so much. It's the most brilliant place. It reminds me of that book, isn't it Charles Dickens? "It was the best of times and it was the worst of times," and it truly... I showed up in Hollywood, and the funny thing about when I showed up is that I had never-- I'm from Illinois. I had never even been to California at this time in my life, and I just booked a plane ticket, like, "I'm gonna get an apartment." I get an apartment, and then I came back. I didn't know anybody because I thought I wanted to get into Hollywood, which I did, but I thought it was the playground for everybody who wanted to learn about storytelling, and I had watched so many actors my entire life. But when I got there, what was really interesting to me is so many people said, "You can't do this. You're not gonna get an agent. You're never gonna get a role." And I was like all going forward, picking up the phone, calling people who wouldn't even pick up the phone. And so that taught me a lot, being able to call people. I would call even agents. I would call Brad Pitt's agent if someone gave me the number, and they would be like, "Why are you calling me?" "Just hear me out, please." And I did that for many, many years, and I think at some point there was a shift for me, though, that I realized, one, the business of it all. I don't think when you're an, when you're only an actor, you always realize the business of it all. But when I started producing, I started seeing, "Wait a minute, it's not personal when I don't, when they don't pick me. When I don't get chosen, it's not personal, and it's a business." And I think that was a big shift for me, and at some point I just started having a weight lifted off of my shoulders. I started going into auditions in a different way, not so concerned about the rejection

Patrick Patterson

Yeah, it's less, you know, in, in those moments having it be less about you, it sounds like, right? And how that rejection or acceptance is a reflection of you and more a, "Hey, what did they think was right for the part?" And they're gonna choose what's right for the part, and then I'll move on to the, the next audition, and that's fine, right? But it takes separating who you are with what you do, right?

Myles Biggs

Yeah.

Patrick Patterson

And like I think that is such a valuable lesson. I think a lot of... And I can speak as a CEO, a lot of people tie their personal who they are with what they do at work. Yeah. And it's very, very, very easy to do. And but then, 'cause you get to ride the highs. If things are going well, you get promoted, you get all those things, then you as a person start feeling better, and you're, y- you're, who you are, you start feeling better. But then like it doesn't always go that way. You miss a quarter, you miss- you lose a job, you get laid off like I did. You know, all of those things if, if you're, who you are, if your identity is tied up with what you do- Yeah it becomes personal. And I, it sounds like you m- you got that lesson, in Hollywood, which is phenomenal, right?

LaQuita Cleare

Eventually, Patrick.

Patrick Patterson

Eventually, yeah.

LaQuita Cleare

Yeah. Eventu- eventually I got that lesson. I, I think, I wish that... i'm not gonna say that it's the only way to learn, but I wish that more leaders could spend time in a place like Hollywood. I really do. Because I think so many times leaders are, you're being innovative in your business. But oftentimes, more times than not actually, you're not thinking about how to innovate yourself And I wish if you spent time in Hollywood, you would have to do that. You were constantly figuring out what's your personal brand, how you're gonna walk in a room, what you should do in this scenario. Okay, what's your type? And if you didn't have it figured out, I had many agent conversations, and the first thing they would ask me is, "Okay, well, what do you think your type is, and what types of roles do you think you should play?" And if you didn't know, they were done with the conversation because you had no clue who you were, and there was nothing that they could do for you. Or if you walked in and they said, "Oh, what type of roles do you think you're gonna play?" And you said, "Oh, I'm an a- I can be an action hero," and if you can't even jump one foot, then they might say, "Okay, this person doesn't have any clue. I'm not gonna be able to help them." So I think there was a realization for me as well about who I am and who I'm not, and that I learned also the hard way.

Myles Biggs

Yeah, so since we can't send all the leaders to Hollywood, how do you think people can have a similar experience, in a different way? What are other ways that you can learn all those things without necessarily trying to make it in Hollywood?

LaQuita Cleare

Well, we can send them all to Hollywood. There. We can start our- It is possible Hollywood boot camp for leaders.

Patrick Patterson

I love this. Let's do it. Start next week. Sounds like

Myles Biggs

a reality TV show, actually.

Patrick Patterson

Yeah.

LaQuita Cleare

I think one of the big things that people can do, and this is by yourself when you feel creative, really think about who you are. I don't mean your title. It's kind of what you were starting to talk about, Patrick. I don't mean your title, but if you start thinking about who you are, what are the characteristics that make up your personality, really thinking of that personal brand, that's a start. Because oftentimes you go to work and you're building a company, but you're not thinking about who you are. So if you can start there with just thinking of, "Okay, this is who I am as, as Patrick," then you can figure out the rest from there, whether it's, "Okay, now I want to bring more stories to my team," or, "The way I'm showing up is not quite what I described." Then you can start unlocking other things. But most of the time, when I'm even asking leaders, "Tell me some unique things about yourself," sometimes they are puzzled. Or if you had to tell me about yourself outside of your title and what you do, they're like, "What?" And then when they change jobs, it's a whole other thing. It's like flipping a car on its head. They don't know who they are with- without this position that they've been in for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years.

Patrick Patterson

And I think, you know, and I want to get into, what moved you in 2010 to start the organization that you run now, But the, storytelling to me has never been more important in an age of social media and, marketing and AI and all of the things. Like, our di- we are so distracted, we are inundated with media, and the ability to tell your story and tell a story and move people is super valuable. Also super rare, as people spend less and less time together as humans, right? And I think it's really interesting. I, I took a, a storytelling class at Stanford, and one of the things, It's, like, my favorite class that I took there, and, you know, they started with, s- five-word stories and really thinking about how to get as much as you can across in five words, and then moving on to, to do... And, like, actually sitting down and thinking about "What are my stories? How do I talk about what has influenced me in my life?" Like you have in, on that eight-year-old, as an eight-year-old on the stage or in Hollywood, moving from acting to producing, or what I wanna hear about as well, you know, you know, starting y- the company that you run now. And, I think it's, I think it's super important. I think it's never a better time to do that than now. I extracted the stories. I had it do this. This is a re- this is an awesome tip. I was like, "Hey, extract the stories that I tell over and over again," and let... And, like, and there were, like, three or four that I didn't even know that I was telling over and over again, right? And then, like, to see them and then be like, "Okay, was the lesson I learned from that? Why do I keep, why does that keep t- coming up?" It was really, really powerful. And then being thoughtful about how to tell it, I think, is also super important, right?

LaQuita Cleare

That's... I love that, and you described a great use for AI in storytelling, because people do ask me that a lot. So I love that you said that. Good use for AI in storytelling. Not so good use is using AI as a ghostwriter to randomly write a story.

Patrick Patterson

100%.

LaQuita Cleare

Awful.

Patrick Patterson

100%, yeah. Wow. So past Hollywood You know, what was going through your mind? Why did you start Clear Communication Academy? What do you guy- First of all, maybe it'd be helpful, like what do you guys do? And then why, why did you start it, and what did you see the need in, in, you know, what was your passion behind it?

LaQuita Cleare

We, Clear Communication Academy, we help leaders communicate so that it inspires action. I say that because we don't help leaders communicate randomly. We want people to inspire some sort of action, so getting people aligned with a why, so we do public speaking, we do storytelling, we do presentation skills, but something that doesn't feel like it was crafted in a boardroom. Not that anything's wrong with boardrooms, but we're not the boardroom. We are the Hollywood storytellers, make people do and feel something team.

Patrick Patterson

And what need did you see that, like why weren't people doing this on their own? And why can't they just, "Okay, so thank you. I know that now. I'm gonna go do it on my own. I don't need, I don't need someone to help me." Why do you think there's a need for coaching there?

LaQuita Cleare

I think this is kind of the reason why I started. Not kind of the reason, this is the reason why I started it, and the reason why we almost exclusively work with business leaders and also some public figures, is because I realized working in Hollywood, I was actually doing some of this work while I was in Hollywood. And I realized from the people I was talking to in Hollywood and the conversations that I was having in Hollywood, that people were thinking s- so much about emotion and connection and all of these things. But when I was working in businesses or in corporations or even when I was doing things like industrial films, people probably remember those, people were having a different conversation. I feel like people are stuck in corporations in the business world for the most part in more of a transactional communication. And people are smart, brilliant, building large businesses, but they're not really thinking about how to connect. They're not thinking about emotions. I've had so many people who even said what you said about storytelling, only they haven't changed their minds. They think it's a crock. Like, "Storytelling? Why should I do storytelling? I need to get to the point." When you realize that those are the people that are building these business and employing so many people, I realized that a lot of the things that I was learning from Hollywood could be applied. But not in some sort of big way, oh, some grand Hollywood production, but in everyday kind of moments. So the more lessons that I was learning from Hollywood, the more I was like, "Okay, I can bring this little nugget back, and then I can bring another nugget back to some of the other clients." And that's how I started the company. But when I started the company, I already had clients, so it was really an organic thing. Many times you start a company and then you go look around and say, "Okay, who can be my client?" I was already doing this work as myself before I built a company and built a team and all of that.

Patrick Patterson

I love that, and like, I do love this, it, the storytelling in the everyday. I'm in YPO, as you know, and one of the things... You know, YPO invented forum, and one of the ways that we deliver, we issue process in, is we do what's called shared experiences. Mm-hmm. And this was really, really powerful for me around giving feedback. And the best way I can describe it is you're having a problem with your kid and you're talking to another parent, and you're p- it's your child. There is no world where you wanna hear from that other parent that they know about parenting better than you and what they, what you should do with your own kid, right? There's also no way that they know your kid as well as you do. So, like, both of those things are true, and so what I don't need is, "Oh, I can't believe you did that with your kid. You should do this." What I actually need is a story. "Hey, when I was having very similar issues, this is what I did, and this is how, uh, this is the reaction I got." Yeah. And it's, and it actually is a story. It's a shared experience. And then I can listen to that, and then I can go raise my kids the way that I'm gonna raise my kids with that story in my head.

LaQuita Cleare

Those are my favorite stories, are the small things. And I think if more people realize the power of small stories, I think people would embrace storytelling more, because a lot of people say things to me like, "I don't have a great story," or, "Is that really interesting? I don't have a big blockbuster moment." I remember I had one guy say to me you know what? I haven't, like, fallen off of a plane. I haven't been chased by a bear. Like, I just don't have..." He thought it was these big moments, because we see, especially with social media, we see so many big stories or these extremes, and then we feel like some small moment of a lesson we learned is not valuable. But those small moments that you are mentioning and the shared experiences are amazing. I love how stories help us build common ground. We can be completely different, from completely different cultures, different generations, all of those things, but there are so many moments that we can tell a story and someone can relate to it in some sort of way because the theme is universal, and then we connect across culture. It's beautiful.

Myles Biggs

What's also interesting about that is it makes me think going back to your eight-year-old rejection from the stage where you weren't bought in, so then the people evaluating you weren't bought into your performance. When you showed up and you were like, "I don't believe this," then you weren't believable. So also, if you feel like your story isn't worth sharing, people aren't gonna feel like it's worth hearing because the attitude that you put into it, it shows up in how other people receive it. So in many respects, we just have to flip the way we're thinking about ourselves, and then it changes how people perceive whatever it is.

LaQuita Cleare

I see this even when you're, when you're walking into a room. Oftentimes I walked into a room in Hollywood, I was not there at all. I was physically there, but I had so many things going on in my mind. How do you think they were judging me? If I wasn't present and I was thinking, "Oh my gosh, I hope you pick me. Oh, what about my lines? I hope I don't forget all of these things," then it was impacting the way that they received me and what I was supposed to do. I also see that in sales. I see that in companies where somebody's giving the same old pitch, and if you don't believe it and you're tired of saying it, I sure don't want to hear it.

Myles Biggs

something I wrote down, LaQuita, in my notes back from when you presented at our summit, earlier this year, was what you called the engagement code, where it was- Yes connection plus content plus delivery equals engagement. And I feel like what we just talked about hints at that, right? But I'm curious where'd that come from? Was that born out of Hollywood or is that something else that you unlocked working with clients? But there's a story there in how you arrived at that framework.

LaQuita Cleare

Some of it came from Hollywood, absolutely. And then the other piece of it came from working with clients and things that I see all of the time that I think blocks people from being good presenters, good communicators. And so I think it's kind of where art meets science. I always say that because I'm an art person, but I'm very science. So I have a master's in psychology and then the Hollywood. So when you kind of mix those together, I started thinking about a lot of people that I work with, and I would see so many brilliant people giving information, but they always just led with logic. And I think that's what most leaders do. Most leaders lead with logic that allows them to make so many decisions, pivots, all of that. But then when I think about the people who really move you and stories, it's not logic. It's having that connection piece. And then the other thing that I started seeing, and this is, this is very specific, even if you look at the average meeting, people want to get to the point as quick as possible. So what happens? You gather everybody for a meeting or even a town hall, which is supposed to be even more important, and then you're drowning me in this agenda and all the things that we're supposed to do and all the departments that are supposed to present, and I want to shout. What happened to the connection piece of that? So as I really started thinking about the Hollywood piece, and then I started thinking about what I see with people working together, I started putting together not just the content piece, which we all think about how to put together a presentation or a story, but how do you prepare, how do you prepare for that? It's almost like preparing a canvas before you put the paint on that. You have connection. That can be simple things. I'm not talking about big, huge moments where you take a detour. I'm talking about small moments where you connect before you give people the content or the information. So that's kind of where that came from, and I think that can be used in every scenario, whether you're presenting, whether you're in a one-on-one conversation. Especially if you're trying to sell something, I think it's really important to connect as well.

Myles Biggs

What are some examples of that? Like when you say connect, how do you do that and then transition from a connection point into the meeting delivering information point?

LaQuita Cleare

One way is when you are having a meeting, some people call it small talk and say, "Oh, I don't have time for that." But that small talk is a connection moment, making sure that you see how people are feeling for the day, discussing how their weekends went for a moment. So whether that's one minute or five minutes, that's one piece of that connection. Sometimes suppose you are presenting in front of a big audience, that may mean eye contact in that scenario or smiling and taking that second before you jump into content. What happens in that scenario is most people jump up there and then boom, they just give you all this content. So sometimes in that sense, the connection piece isn't necessarily something that is verbal, it's more non-verbal. That might be another piece to that as well. Sometimes you can be in a virtual meeting or a virtual scenario where you are speaking to a prospect and you might be even connecting around something that's happening even in your background. One of the things that we talk to people about sometimes in virtual communication, you see my background. Sometimes people might ask me, "Oh, what's this picture?" Or if I see something in your background, there are different things that you can connect around. Now all of a sudden, guess what? Someone's telling you a story. I've been in calls with people and I said, "Wow, can you-- what is that picture behind you?" Face smiled, face lit up, and they just immediately went into a story. I didn't have to say, "Start telling me a story." It's just these natural things we do as humans if we are present. It requires presence, though, and we are trying to connect versus just always getting our points across.

Myles Biggs

It reminds me of something another podcast guest on here recently said. It's the idea of being effective versus being efficient. Sometimes we're pursuing efficiency so much that we forget to be effective, and you could get in and just dump all the information, and it's like it's effective to do this in one email, but the most efficient way is to get everybody together- Correct connect, tell the story, and then make sure they actually hear you and you're not overwhelming them. And that ef- the efficient way might take longer, might not be as-- But it's-- Oh, sorry. The effective way might take longer, might be less efficient, but it's more effective at the end of the day.

LaQuita Cleare

And I guess when I think about that too, I'm thinking about so many times that I would go into different audition rooms and the difference of how I, I even felt, and the part of my journey that makes me smile are the moments where I walked in so present, and I wasn't always necessarily even thinking of the outcome. Not only did the outcome actually change many times as a result of it, but it just made me happier in my journey

Myles Biggs

So Patrick talked about AI briefly, and that makes me think about this idea of, effective versus efficient. How are you seeing AI come into the world of storytelling and maybe how people are using it to try to be more efficient, but, is it reducing effectiveness or increasing it from your perspective?

LaQuita Cleare

I am seeing people use AI for storytelling and speaking by having AI write their presentation for them, and it's reducing their effectiveness because then they-- many times it doesn't s- sound like them, and then they come in to present, and oftentimes they're trying to remember what, what line the AI said. One is using AI as a thought partner For your stories. Many times you don't know what stories you should even tell or you're trying to find those stories. So using AI to help you figure that out almost as a story mining, asking you the right questions so that it jogs your memory to go, "Oh yeah, I have that story." That's a great way to use AI. Then when you may say you have five stories and you're trying to figure out what goes, which one goes with the theme or the content you are trying to present, AI is amazing for that. "Hey, I have these five stories. This is what I'm trying to do in my meeting. What do you think works for the theme here?" AI is great at that. Having a story and saying, "Hey, can you help me make sure that this is structured a little bit better?" Or, "What should I put where? Can you give me some ideas?" AI is great for that. So there are a lot of ways that I think AI can really help the person shine if you use it as a partner. I think in general, many people are using AI to replace the work that they need to do, and with some things it works perfectly. But with something like public speaking, with something like storytelling that's so based on emotion and connection and authenticity, it has to be a partner. It's not just writing for you. Those are my thoughts in a nutshell.

Patrick Patterson

I think that... No, I think it's exactly right? And we talk a lot about, internally here at Level, like what is irreplaceably human about the work that we do as marketers. And you know, one of the things, is connection actually. It's c- you know, connection, curiosity, taste, judgment, those are all things that, you know you as a human shouldn't outsource- to an AI or anyone or anything for that matter. You know, and I think like I, I think we-- people make the mistake of outsourcing things like judgment and taste to the AI when really, those are the things that are, that make you irreducibly or irreplaceably human or uniquely human in, in what you're doing. I think storytelling's just such a personal thing, and I, I totally agree. I mean, how many times have I had to present a presentation that someone else made, right? And, in my role it happens, and so then I'm presenting it but I'm not there, right? And the pers- I'm living it and the person who created it is not living it. And it's really hard to make that bridge if you weren't a part of that creation process.

Myles Biggs

Correct.

Patrick Patterson

And so very, very similar with AI, that if AI is just doing the creation but you're living it- It's-- you're, it, you're not gonna be able to make that bridge. So 100% agree with you. And, I love as well, and, you know, I love throwing these little AI tips. Like, I record all my meetings. We're a virtual company. We're 100% remote. So it's really, really nice I have that benefit. And I have it work as a, a, a coach. And part of what it- Mm-hmm part of what it gives me is not just, like, executive coaching, it's speaking. Are you speaking too much in meetings? Are you speaking too quickly? Are you trying to get a point across and you're not? Are you belaboring points like I am right now? And so I think utilizing the tools in front of you to make yourself better at the things that ir- are irreplaceably human, I think that's how you should be using it, not trying to figure out ways to replace them.

LaQuita Cleare

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think so too. I-- And I love-- The other thing that I think would, is really interesting, I love what you said about pulling those kind of story threads. It's interesting also for you if, or anyone doing that, if you are pulling those story threads and then you are figuring out is there a, a leadership story or a theme or something that you could use that you don't also have? And then you f- you are thinking, "Yeah, you know what? I always tell stories on this, and this, but there's something else that I think could really be good in my toolkit." AI can be great for that. I'm definitely team AI and team human. I'm team human and team AI, and kind of the, the intersection of that. We built it, an AI tool that gives people feedback, so it gives you feedback on your presentations, and I love it. And some would say, "Well, wouldn't that replace you?" Absolutely not. That's not gonna happen.

Patrick Patterson

The D. Scott Phoenix talks about the cell eating the mitochondria and becoming a multi-cell, organism and then growing into being humans, and the only way that worked is when, the single cell and the mitochondria were combined into one thing, and he used this as a story, right? To talk about what is coming with AI, and his suggestion is that we have to eat the AI, right? We have to become part-- we have to have it as a partner, not as an adversary, not as a, you know, not as something else. 'Cause his argument is if it is an adversary, it's going to win. Yeah and so the only way that we compete with it is by merging with it, and I think that's- Cool the future that's very, very interesting. And again, coming back to what do we do as humans that AI can't do, and how do we really lean in our careers, our jo- you know, our jobs, the tasks that we do? How do we really lean into those things? The, the training that we get, you know, I think is really, really important. I think if you're a leader and you're saying, "Okay, how do I... What is, what are the things that I need to be trained on to be better, a better leader in the future with AI?" Storytelling is absolutely one of them, right? Yeah. So, so it's figuring out what those things are and, connection is absolutely another one of them. How do I get deeper and deeper connected with folks? So it's really, really important. As you are seeing this transition with AI over the past four years and you're talking with more CEOs- Mm and you're more leaders, I know it's not just CEOs, more leaders, what are the biggest aha moments that you see as you work with leaders, as you go through your coaching, as, you know, you work with some brilliant people, right? Really, amazing, brilliant people, but you still have something to teach, teach them. What are those light bulb moments that you've seen over the past four years? And are any of them different now than they were four years ago?

LaQuita Cleare

One light bulb moment that I consistently see with leaders, especially when it comes to storytelling, is that people thought stories are just kind of something that you ramble off in a bar at happy hour, and then when they start realizing that there's a strategic way to use stories, then a light bulb goes off in people's minds, And then they realize, "Oh, wait a minute. Just like any other strategy I have in my company, there's a such thing as strategic storytelling." So that's kind of one that happens.

Patrick Patterson

Well, and what's really interesting is a strategy is purely a story. To be honest, right? There is, there's almost no difference between a strategy and a story. They are the same thing.

LaQuita Cleare

Tell them again. Tell for the folks that, that, for the folks that heard but are not listening. But they don't say, they don't see that. Many people don't see that. And then when you break it down, like what you said, okay, a strategy is a story, or, oh, I'm not just telling a story about me taking my kid to, to get a lollipop. But when you really help people break it down and they go, "Oh yeah, my sales team is not doing that. Oh yeah, whoever is speaking, the first person who's speaking to people we're recruiting is not doing that." Or the other light bulb moment is when I speak about company values. Every company has values. Very few companies have stories that go with the values. So then they go, "Oh yeah, you're right. I can tell you our company values. I have no idea what are the stories that are connected

Patrick Patterson

to them." I literally have a document, and you'd be so proud. I have a document of our core values with all of the stories, and I kind of- Love it sourced them across the entire organization and leadership team. but the important thing, and it's a requirement for everyone on the leadership team, they need to have their own value story.

LaQuita Cleare

Yes.

Patrick Patterson

so everyone has to have their own value story, and I have a document that, you know, you can read while you're developing yours. Yeah.

LaQuita Cleare

It also, what you said with everybody have, for everybody to have their own, that's another big one because I think especially in companies, we are so tied to everything that the company told us to say, that you don't feel confident in articulating it. And then if I'm the customer, I feel like you are just telling me something that you don't truly believe in and it's not personal. So I love this idea of in your company making sure that everybody, in their own words, they have their own story. They can also s- speak about who the company is, what the company does in a way that feels meaningful for them. And then in turn, if I'm listening to it, it's not going to just feel like something that's been regurgitated. So I, I think this, if I'm speaking about toolkits that people should have, this is part of the toolkit that I think leaders need and that they need to encourage their team to have this in their toolkit as well.

Myles Biggs

So curious, if we play devil's advocate for a minute here, is there ever a moment where, is there ever a moment where stories don't make sense? Where you don't wanna lead with a story, you should just lead with logic?

LaQuita Cleare

Talking to a storyteller here. I think storytelling can be the solve for almost every situation, but I do think there are moments where the story, you don't wanna necessarily lead with the story. We also need to think about who our audience is. So if I'm thinking about who my audience is, there are times where I may wanna lead with logic and a story may come later. There are times where I may wanna lead with credibility and then a story. For example, even in my own career, oftentimes when people realize that I worked in Hollywood, somehow then there's this narrative of, "Oh, she's an actor and it's very fluffy, and she worked in Hollywood." So I have to put in credibility because in some rooms, if I immediately lead with story, they don't understand the work and the depth of the work that we've done and what it has achieved. So in those sort of scenarios, even sometimes with prospects, we've led with credibility. If I'm speaking to a prospect who is looking for someone to help them raise money or do a massive exit, sometimes I will lead with a data point or I'll lead with a big number of exits that we've helped, and then I'll tell the story of it.

Patrick Patterson

for me, Myles, the answer I would give is when you call a loved one with- in a crisis as well. My mom does this all the time. She'll tell me, this-- she'll start in on this long story and I'll be like, "Is everyone okay?" So maybe start with, "E- everything's fine," the logic, and then the story of, "So this morning when I woke up, I went..." You know, like- Yeah. And and so I think, you know, there's... But I do think all of that to, to actually kind of bring that back, like all of that is just different type of storytelling, right?

LaQuita Cleare

Yeah.

Patrick Patterson

And it's whether you're credentializing yourself first as a part of that storytelling, getting them to pay attention as a part of that storytelling, standing up and getting everyone else to stand up and getting the energy back in the room as part of the storytelling. It's not just one thing. Choosing to be logical versus funny versus self-deprecating, are all part of telling an effective story to the audience, 'cause your goal- Right is not to tell a story. Your goal is to have people, move people to take action or, and- Yeah that action could be changing the way they think, like a marketing ad. It could be cha- having them work with you, uh, like an employee, having them work with you like a, a partnership. You know, there's lots of different things. Or maybe it's just, go where you wanna go for dinner or tell them how much you love them and this is what I wanna do for you. But all of those are stories, right? And it's about getting that thing that's in your head into their minds as well and effectively communicating that.

LaQuita Cleare

Oh, that's good. So maybe the point here is not just about story, but it's the types of stories that you're going to tell, because all of these things are stories. But if we really think about the types of stories, then yes, you adapt the types of stories that you are going to tell depending on the scenario. If I'm just trying to give credibility, I'm not gonna go into some TED Talk story where people are like, "What did that have to do with the credibility?" That's a different story. That's 60 seconds. That's quick 30 seconds. And then we also use anecdotes a lot. A lot of people don't talk about those. It's not always that every experience that we wanna share is a fully formed story with all of these rich characters. Sometimes there's anecdotes that help people to kind of be in the same place. I might just say something about my grandmother or about my mom. I'm not telling you the full story, but then someone else goes, "Oh, wow, you just shared about your mom," or, "Yeah, I'm thinking about my mom." So there's a lot of different ways that we put in this concept of storytelling, and if you want things to be remembered, then yeah, you do tell a story. If you want something to be remembered, we know that it's proven that stories are remembered more than facts alone. So most of the time there's a good case for it. But if you're on a podcast, someone asks you a direct question, you don't need to go into story for every single

Myles Biggs

answer.

LaQuita Cleare

That's it.

Myles Biggs

Oh, and it's interesting for me, like the examples both of you gave were, were personal examples, right? You mentioned your mom calls you or you're telling a story about your grandmother. So I'm curious, LaQuita, have you found, is there a balance between sharing personal things to make yourself relatable in a professional s- like environment? How do you balance that with showing up as like the authority? 'Cause I know some, some people are hesitant to share the personal facts 'cause they feel like it's gonna take away from the authority versus enhance it in some ways, and I'm wondering how you think about that.

LaQuita Cleare

I think in a personal or in a professional... Let me back up. I think in a professional setting, you can also tell business stories or stories about the company or stories about the customer and then add your POV When you are telling a story about someone else other than yourself, if you add your POV or if you were coming into a company and maybe it's the company's stor- brand story, it's not-- You didn't start the company, but maybe you're just giving a little bit of a, a tidbit or POV on why you relate to the company. That's not your personal story. You're not telling some deeply personal experience. So we can use business examples, we can use things that are not our personal stories, but still I wanna hear how you feel about that. So that's a nice way to find that balance of not always telling a personal story. I don't think deeply personal stories work in a business setting all of the time. Do I think personal stories work in a business setting? Absolutely. But it's not all the time that you are going to say, "Oh, you know, when my-- when I was six and my dad did ABC." You're not gonna tell that all the time. But I think that if you figure out the moments that are relevant and you think about your goals, there are some moments that are not deeply personal that make sense to share.

Myles Biggs

All right. That is a wrap on this episode of Good Enough Isn't. Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't yet, be sure to hit that subscribe button so that you never miss an episode, and check out all of the quality links and content in the show notes where you can learn more about LaQuita Clear and her company, the Clear Communication Academy. Till next time, everyone, remember, Good Enough Isn't.