How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
Get cast today at castingnetworks.com.
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How to Nail Auditions by Being You with Legendary Casting Director Tara Rubin
Casting Director Tara Rubin, a name synonymous with Broadway brilliance, graces How We Role, pulling the curtain to reveal the humanity and precision behind the casting process. Tara joins host Robert Peterpaul to explore her journey from a third grader with a passion for theater to forming one of the most sought after casting companies in the business.
The legendary Casting Director (whose credits, include: Phantom of the Opera, Dear Evan Hansen, Six the musical, Death Becomes Her, The Outsiders and many more) gives actors a wealth of advice, from an actor's audition prep to how to walk into an audition room to avoiding self-sabotage.
Learn more about Tara Rubin and The TRC Company (formerly Tara Rubin Casting) here.
This is - How We Role. Get cast today at castingnetworks.com.
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Listeners. Today we have the iconic casting director, tara Rubin. Welcome to how we Roll.
Tara Rubin:Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Robert Peterpual:I said this to you before, but I admire not only this legendary career that you've carved out for yourself in our industry, but the way you seem to navigate this business with such kindness and love is truly admirable, so I want to start by thanking you for that.
Tara Rubin:Oh, thank you for saying that, um, you know, it means a lot to me that, that that when I hear from someone how much they appreciate, you know, our um but I, the way we approach our work at our office. But I also always have to say that that's all because of what you all do. You know, when you come into audition you've prepared so much material and you, you know, gone through all the emotional exercises and physical exercises that you need to to do before you come into audition. So to kind of greet you with anything or receive you with anything less than that just doesn't seem appropriate.
Robert Peterpual:Oh well, I feel like we're all really good readers, not just audition readers, maybe, but readers as artists. We can read energy. So when we walk into the room, we feel the warmth, we feel the love, we feel the excitement which, unfortunately, it's not always the case, depending on where you're going. So it is something to be grateful for. And I do want to say also we're recording this in the morning. I have my morning voice on my frog voice, so it's going to be kind of a coffee and and casting conversation. I think you have your coffee or your tea.
Tara Rubin:I have, I have my coffee.
Robert Peterpual:You. Okay, I have my favorite, one of my favorite mugs. It's my hello, my Mrs. So welcome friends, grab a mug and join us. I guess to start at the very beginning, which I hear, is a very good place to start very place to start. I know growing up you loved entertainment. You loved all things movies and dance and the theater. But I think things seem to shift for you with a formative experience you had Well in third grade, right With Mrs Cradaville Cradaville.
Tara Rubin:Miss Cradaville.
Robert Peterpual:Miss Cradaville, I believe, who I did try to track down to get a quote. I don't know where she is, but I can't find her either.
Tara Rubin:I can't find her either, I know.
Robert Peterpual:Well, I love that you keep her alive and in your heart right now, in interviews, you know, by just bringing her up, can you kind of take us through that impactful moment, because I think teachers are so valuable in forming our journeys.
Tara Rubin:Yes, miss Cradaville was probably around 22. You know we were her first class and this was in St Louis, missouri, and you know it was the 1960s. She was so progressive she would she brought in a rug and rolled it out and we would push the desk aside and sit on the floor. And that doesn't sound very progressive now, but in those days, like everything was so much more rigid in the public school system and she loved the theater, and so she showed us what was kind of like. I'm taking you on a history lesson.
Robert Peterpual:I love it. I'm there, I'm along to the right.
Tara Rubin:She showed us this film strip about the Globe Theater and like do you just love that idea of this young teacher showing third graders who you know are running around with paper airplanes and stuff in St Louis Missouri, like a film strip about Shakespeare, and, and I loved it. And then she read us parts of Julius Caesar. And.
Tara Rubin:I really loved that too. And so I went to the school library and I said like, like I heard about this guy Shakespeare, and I wondered if I could get some books. And the librarian said, well, we don't think you should probably, you know, get Shakespeare. But there were these retold Shakespeare tales by a woman named Marcia Chute and I guess she did a lot of the classics and she kind of retold them so that children. So I read all of those, I read like all, and there's basically a summary and then of the story and then there'd be like little excerpts that were explicated, and so that really Miss Credoville sang to us. Oh, you know, her sister appeared at the St Louis Munia Opera as child performers, wow, and yeah, she was an amazing teacher. So like that definitely was the open door for me. That's so special.
Robert Peterpual:I love that story. I picture you almost as a little Matilda you know her going to the library and like you've read all these already, or Belle even, but I'll read it twice. I think that's such a beautiful story.
Tara Rubin:Yes, I was in the library club in junior high school so like you kind of get a sense of like what my background was.
Robert Peterpual:There's no place like the library. Libraries are magic. I think so too.
Tara Rubin:I think that's one of my favorite little streets in the city by Brian Park.
Robert Peterpual:I think it's library way If you haven't been down it check it out. There's quotes from acclaimed authors on the ground you might trip. I've definitely stumbled reading them a couple of times, but it's worth the stumble, as we, I guess, stumble on your journey. Do you remember when you first learned what a casting director did?
Tara Rubin:Yes, it was when I I moved to New York and so I had studied theater in college for two years and I thought, oh, I don't know, this is really right for me. I might not be very good at it and I, you know, I maybe temperamentally I'm not suited to be a performer, I'm not sure. So I ended up transferring to the liberal arts college at Boston University and some my degrees in English literature, and so I missed, like the only part of the theater training that I got was like lying on the floor, breathing, you know, or elementary acting, speech exercises the first two years, dramatic literature, which was great. So then I came to the library.
Tara Rubin:So then I came to New York, not sure what I wanted to do, but just knowing that I wanted to live in New York. And after a couple of years of trying different things I kept getting drawn back to the theater and so I started taking an acting class at the HB studio and and so I kind of got drawn back into it. And then I went to work for a producer. So when I was working for the producers I mean they knew that casting directors were employed to cast, but I didn't exactly I didn't really know much more about it than that. I certainly hadn't had enough like professional auditions to have met any. So when I was working on this Broadway play it was called Execution of Justice by Emily Mann, I met these two men named Jeffrey Johnson and Vincent Lyft, who were kind of like the legendary Johnson Lyft casting of the 70s, 80s, 90s and I loved working with them and they always they treated me like one of them, like, not like an assistant, and I liked that.
Tara Rubin:And so when the play closed and Mr Osterman closed up his office in New York and moved to Connecticut, I went to work for Johnson Lyft.
Robert Peterpual:And that's when you first started working on Phantom. I believe right.
Tara Rubin:Yes Phantom. I worked on that from the very beginning, from the first day of auditions, and they were casting. The very first year that I was there, my very first day of work, I was setting up auditions for the original company of laymans.
Robert Peterpual:Iconic See iconic. I said icon.
Tara Rubin:And we're still casting it today.
Robert Peterpual:That is incredible.
Tara Rubin:Makes me very happy.
Robert Peterpual:Well, it also makes me happy that you had some acting training. I know you laughed it off a little bit, but the training you had is actually great just for life in general breathing and speaking to people and all that wonderful juicy stuff. But I think if we could all do that in this business, just try on different hats. That's why I love being a reader as an actor, because you're behind the table and you kind of are doing what you love but there's less pressure and you sort of see that it's really not always about you. There's just so many moving parts. So I like that you have that experience.
Tara Rubin:I think what you just said is so true about it not being about you, and I think that actors have a tendency to understandably, kind of try to grasp at a very specific reason why they were or weren't cast. And there's no such thing in a way. I mean, obviously sometimes people can't really evoke the time and place that they don't, they don't have access to the things that that character needs to have. Maybe then it's obvious, but it doesn't really have it. It doesn't have anything to do with like cracking on a note or forgetting a line or dropping your sides or stumbling through a couple of lines. We know that you're auditioning, we know that we're not in performance, so we can let a lot of that go, and I hope that actors learn to understand that a little bit as they move in through their careers.
Robert Peterpual:And I think sometimes what you correct me if I'm wrong with those quote unquote, imperfect moments are what actually get you the callback or the job, dropping your sides. They're like, oh, the character would totally do that, or in a zoom. You know, something like a notification just went off on my computer somehow, even though my sound is plugged into the headphones and it snaps you back into the present, a lot of these things. So they can be little gifts, I think.
Tara Rubin:I agree, and I think sometimes, when, when an actor kind of goes up on a line, it often especially in an audition it's often because they're so deeply in that moment and they haven't lived there yet, because they haven't gone to the rehearsal process, and so it's like they just arrived in a new place and they're looking around and they can't, and so it's usually because of some kind of like deep connection, more than it is a metal thing, I think.
Robert Peterpual:Yeah, I was self taping last night and my neighbors upstairs were stomping around and there's the old me pardon me, that's thinking I'm gonna start over, but then I'm thinking, no, he's, he's in an apartment. This might be the neighbors in the seat. It's just like you know. It's the environment. Go with it. See what happens to, I guess. See what happens and fast forward a bit in your journey. When you started your company Tara Rubin Casting I don't need to tell you what it's called Did you have a specific intention on the type of casting company you wanted to be? I'm not sure. No, I'm not sure.
Tara Rubin:I wish I could say that I did have a specific intention. I knew I was at a place where I had been in the same job for 15 years and so I needed to see what challenged myself. Is this the most I can do? Is there something else that I can do? That's the most I can do. That was one motivation. As far as the ethos of the company, I wish I could say that I had a mission and I really didn't. I just was immediately really luckily so busy that I just kind of did it the way I did it. I did have a lot of ethos things from Johnson Lyft that I brought with me. They were always tremendously gracious to actors. I thought and appreciated them. I don't think they would have said this, but they were truly a team. I was always included at opening nights and dinners. They were very inclusive of the whole group and so those things I just kind of naturally brought with me. I didn't really think about it. I was lucky that I really knew.
Robert Peterpual:Yeah, it's similar to acting right. It's like you don't want to put on things that you already have. You're just bringing naturally yourself to it. And when I think of you all, I think of not just actor first but, I guess, human first. It's a very human first office, which is great because we're all human. Sometimes being human is one of the hardest things to do in life. But New Slash, we are that. So just be I know. So this is my morning ramble.
Tara Rubin:I would say that in the early days I did know that I wanted us to be an office that can make it happen. And so if someone called at 6 PM and said we have to change the schedule for tomorrow, the director can't be there, tany has to come at noon, or the director has to has a doctor appointment, so she's canceling whatever it is that we would accommodate and that we would be able to roll with that and even kind of at our own expense, but that we would do that and that was important to me. And then I also I didn't and I didn't realize this until like a few years in but I I didn't do it like a man, like I didn't try to be other than who I was, and I think that that was helpful in some cases and maybe not so helpful in others. You know, there were certain clients who who really responded to the way I worked. And then there were others, like you know, you don't really want to see I'm a sure woman cry, but like sometimes I did and I would.
Tara Rubin:It would be embarrassing, like either because I was so moved by an audition or because I was upset or whatever, and and I worked against that for a while and then about five years ago I realized, like, for women in this business, that's our added value, the fact that we are so close to our most many women are so close to our feelings that we that we're we're eight, we have that access, we have that emotional intelligence. Like you talked about reading a room and being able to walk in and kind of understand the personalities and and women are often like hosting things, and so that's a real quality. And in casting, introducing people, making sure people are accommodated, that they they need to take a break, they need to have a coffee, you know those kinds of things. And but particularly like the, I was always told like you're too emotional, you're overly sensitive and like, and then about five years ago I thought, right, I am.
Tara Rubin:I do take it too personally, and that's my, that's my added value.
Robert Peterpual:You know I love that. That's your superpower, terry. We haven't taken it personally. I think that's so cool. I really do. I love that. And I was talking maybe I'll cut this out because I don't have the data to back it up but I was talking to a friend in casting and she was saying I was just trying to pick people's brains about questions to ask you that maybe you don't always get asked, and she thought ask her something about being a woman in this business. Do you find it interesting that it feels again, I don't have the data, but it feels like most successful casting directors are women. It sort of feels like that's one area of the industry that is predominantly women. So I think you maybe just talked about why, but I don't know if that's true.
Tara Rubin:Well, I mean, yes, there are. I think part of it is historic and I don't have a lot of data to back this up either, but I'm pretty sure this is true and that's because in the old days, you know, like in the 40s, 50s, 60s, the cast there weren't independent casting directors, it was like the job of somebody in David Merrick's office. Jeffrey Johnson, my old boss, was David Merrick's casting director for a while, and so it was kind of like the girl's job, you know, and she had a file folder in her desk drawer with some pictures and resumes in it and the agents would go to the offices of the producers and say, you know, hey, what do you have for my client, robert Peter Fall? Like he's back from his tour. Like you know he's really I hear you've got this title that you're about to work on let's give him a shot. So casting was like the woman's, it was like the girl's job, and then I think it developed from there.
Robert Peterpual:And then it was claimed, sort of like how you claimed again I love that idea of taking it personally and using all of that in the room to make everybody feel comfortable and hopefully the other side is using it too to do their job, and then it's just one big, open, human room, which is great, you know, but you can't give from an empty mug. I'll say, since we're drinking coffee this morning, do you have any self care practices as a creative that you can share with us that you think might be helpful for all creatives in general, especially with your job, which I feel like is such long and just unexpected hours?
Tara Rubin:It is, and I think casting directors have in the last few years begun to, you know, try to approach their work with a little bit more of a sense of their own worth in the process and their and keeping self care in mind. I couldn't even really say it right Just now. I could barely get it.
Tara Rubin:I don't come from a generation of women who really thought about self care like we just did our lives, you know. But I do take, you know, personal health seriously, and so I think all of that is good and I think that the generation that's coming up will do a really good job of trying to keep those principles, you know, part of their casting practice and understanding when they have to, like, say we can't do that, you know.
Tara Rubin:Understanding when they say like I need a week off, and things like that. I think that that will be a great improvement for this generation that the millennials in the next group will bring to our world.
Robert Peterpual:Yeah, you know, I almost wish there was a union trained professional on every set, in every rehearsal, in the casting room, just working with anyone on the project to I don't know, maybe it's more of a therapist talk to them and make sure they're taking care of themselves or kind of advocate for them and saying, hey, they actually went over the 10 hours yesterday. Can they go home and see their kids and we can get this PA to fill in or whatever it is. So I think that's maybe something we'll incorporate down the line. Maybe we can plan it right now.
Tara Rubin:We're taking steps.
Tara Rubin:You know it's really pushing a boulder up a hill in some ways, and it's being done.
Tara Rubin:You know, I think in the regions, rehearsal in some of the regional theaters, the rehearsal hours have been reduced and I think I hope people are paying attention.
Tara Rubin:You know, I was talking to somebody last night and I was saying like I think the best way we can make progress in a lot of these issues is for my generation to constantly be reminded, for people to keep tapping on our shoulders and saying you have to remember the human, you have to remember that this is a very important issue and it's you know don't roll your eyes at this, tara Like this is key, and the young people in my office do that for me, and then I need to remind them that, yes, thank you for reminding me that we need to make these changes and that some of the pillars of what we have are there for a good reason.
Tara Rubin:That's for me to remind you that there's a certain amount of rigor that we have to maintain in order to keep art flowing and creating, and so I feel like I'm so fortunate that I can do that with the people on my team. You know that they can say you know, when there are controversies about casting and authenticity and casting, that like we are really talking about it and I'm really listening to them. You know, and you know sometimes I'm the most radical one in the group. You know it's funny and sometimes I'm blind to like something that I should have seen. So it's like an intergenerational approach to everything is usually a pretty good idea, isn't it?
Robert Peterpual:Yeah, I think walking in people's shoes too would be really helpful if people could sit in the room with you all, if you filmed one casting session, and they could just see how many hours you're putting in to every line, every role, to each word you put in a breakdown.
Robert Peterpual:My wife, I like to say she casts words, she works for Pearson, so she's putting together standardized tests which can be seen. As you know the enemy, and she was a teacher so she totally understands that. But just watching how many hours she puts into every word of every passage they choose, each state has different requirements for what words you can use, what representation is needed. I think it's a similar case in that if we all just took a step back and realized how much work is going into all of this, there'd be more understanding, I think, of the humanness of it all. But you know, while I have you here, I'd love to roll through the casting process briefly for listeners and then park on some specifics along the way. Again, I have so many questions. Would you mind sort of just briefly taking us through the overview of your workflow on any project?
Tara Rubin:Sure, so let's just take an original Broadway show, which usually, by the time it's coming to Broadway, we've done a reading and a workshop and possibly a regional production.
Tara Rubin:So the journey is much longer than it used to be, you know.
Tara Rubin:But for Broadway we would always start with the equity required calls, which are required through an agreement with the producers Broadway League and the actors' equity union, and so we would have equity principal auditions, equity chorus calls, equity dance calls.
Tara Rubin:Then oftentimes that's followed by, like some preliminary auditions. Sometimes they take place with associate directors, associate choreographers, someone from a music team, and those are always like really fun for me because I love getting to know the associates, because chances are, if the show is successful, they're the people that we'll be working with when we cast the replacements and maybe the national tour and things like that. So our ongoing relationship with them is gonna be important to our efficacy and our just the quality of the experience, and so that's when we might. People we've seen in showcases, people we've heard about people that have been submitted through agents, but we don't really know them. So then we take a period of seeing those people, recalling people from the open calls, and then usually the director will show up for maybe a week or two weeks and then we start to like refine the process. It's kind of like taking a large group and, step by step, finding the people who are the most appropriate for telling the story.
Tara Rubin:You know who seem like the denizens of the world that we're creating.
Robert Peterpual:Oh, good word yeah.
Tara Rubin:And you like it changes. You know, like, if you're a visual person, it's sort of like the color values, like are they really vivid and bold or are they a little more muted, or are they almost water, like, you know, watercoloring, yeah, so that I'm always really appreciative of that associate phase, because that's where I begin to see like, oh, you know, I might not have been quite, you know, on the right path with this, and everybody is saying that it has to be this, but I'm thinking maybe let's just add a few people who bring this quality to it and see if that might, you know, be exciting and also work. You know so that. And then the director comes, and then it's sort of like the clouds are lifted and the director is there and you see what she had in mind and you, you know that's, and obviously the associates have been representing that. But then you get the.
Tara Rubin:You know, then it's like you're dealing with the God of it, all right, but you begin to see like, oh, the choreography is really telling the story and the vision is so specific. And then the last two days or three days usually, the producers come and they, you know, they get to see the, and then they get to see the final candidates and then there's a discussion about you know who will be the final cast. And I always say it takes as much time as you have. You know, like if you only have two weeks, like you do it in two weeks, if you have a year, we'll use the whole year. You know it just ends on.
Robert Peterpual:It's like self-taping yeah.
Tara Rubin:Yes, yeah, definitely.
Robert Peterpual:Well, thank you for taking us through that. First of all, it's so fascinating.
Tara Rubin:That's an overview and sometimes it's a little different. And you know, sometimes by the time we get to Broadway we have a lot of our cast, because we've done the workshop and we've done the regional production, and maybe somebody in the regional production can't do it because she's got a television series now and so we have to place that person and then you're fine. That's a kind of different assignment because you've already created the world and you're going to find somebody who belongs there, you know. Yeah. So you know, but that's the overview.
Robert Peterpual:It's so cool. You're like detectives in your own right and I think actors are as well. On a different end, and something as an actor I'm fascinated by I mentioned this earlier before we started recording, I think are the breakdowns like the ones we see on Casting Network shout out. I know casting is on our side and pulling out any kind of golden nuggets of information they have or changing it as things develop. Do you have any suggestions for actors on how to break down a breakdown and really download that into their performance?
Tara Rubin:Such a good question and honestly I don't think anyone's ever asked me that before. I have two different kind of conflicting ideas about it.
Robert Peterpual:One I let's talk about both.
Tara Rubin:Yeah, one, it kind of related to Udahagen, and she always advised that you black out any descriptions of the character like that. Come in the play and black out and just concentrate on the language. And so to a certain extent, sometimes, when, well, we don't always write the breakdowns, oftentimes like the writer will or somebody on the writer's team will, but so sometimes I like that, I like the idea of it being like you know the gender. If the race is essential to the character, then what the race would be, this race isn't essential, then we designate that. Maybe it's age appropriate, is it important? You know just all the things that are important to like tell the story as this character.
Tara Rubin:And then, you know, sometimes I like to give as little as possible and just see what the actors bring to it, the actors bring to it and especially if it's Well, it's like. But then sometimes, then sometimes we've been in situations where we're having difficulty casting a part and we're bringing in brilliant actors who are just like not connecting with the material. And this happened a few years ago where the director said, can I see the breakdown Like, what are we sending these women? And she revised it and it really made a difference. You know, just like what we were providing to the artists prior to their work on the material was really important and that editing process of what we were giving out really made a difference in the room. So I don't know if I've exactly answered the question, but it's like I would say that the information in the breakdown is deliberate, you know. So if it's really sketchy, know that, know that.
Tara Rubin:Like okay, so they must be pretty open to like and they're asking me to come in so I can look at myself and look at, you know, my imagination for this character and see what I can create. And oftentimes there the breakdowns have like some emotional qualities that I think are really helpful for actors to look at. So so, yeah, I would just, I would just suggest that you read it carefully, that's really helpful.
Robert Peterpual:That's a really helpful tip the length of the breakdown to. If it's shorter, you can assume maybe they're a bit more open. There's not as much there, sort of take what you find on the page and also remind yourself, I guess, how you're presenting yourself to casting to, because that's why they're calling you in. So all that is maybe stuff you don't need to put on, because that's sort of the essence that you're giving out, so you can maybe cross out the words that match with that and just assume you have it. That's cool. No, that was very helpful, thank you. I appreciate that. Everybody jot down the notes at home.
Tara Rubin:Well, I also think, you know you said putting it on and there is sometimes, I think, a tendency for actors to add things to the character or add things to the scene when they come into audition, and I think it's an effort to kind of share a creativity of theirs. You know, like I can do this dialect, so I'm going to give this character a dialect, or I'm going to give her a tick or chewing gum, because I think she's not smart, you know, or like any of those kind of pejorative, any of those kind Like yeah, I guess like, and the fact is like they're not often that helpful. Yeah, because it's like let's just explore the text, let's just explore what you think about this character and this text that's given, and maybe the director will say like oh, by the way, she's from you know. Oh, by the way, she's from Alabama. It's like we should have told her that we didn't know.
Tara Rubin:You know so, but most of the time I really feel like sticking to the text for that first audition is helpful, like we don't need a funny walk or a, unless it's specified, of course, in the instructions, because what they end up doing is kind of clouding you rather than revealing you. You know like we want to get close to what you're you and what you're going to bring to our storytelling, and so, yeah, so I kind of feel like the more of you you bring, the more exciting it is for the people behind the table.
Robert Peterpual:Yes, and sort of starting at the ground level. And this reminds me too. You know I understand it, but I think when directors and casting directors say make a choice, it can be a little bit ambiguous, especially for people just starting out, and there's not really a class describing that. And I understand it can be a plethora of things. But for you, what does that mean? Is that more so a strong perspective on the character? Is that sort of beat by beat? Do you have anything in mind when you hear the word make a choice?
Tara Rubin:Yeah, I think of it more as like have an idea about the scene and about the character and the relationships and the given circumstances, and like have ideas about those things and bring them to the material Like they should be relevant. I don't mean that like if it's, you know, a contemporary piece and you decide, oh, my idea is that it's medieval, like that. I just mean an idea about the level of is it easy to have this conversation? Is it easy for this character to say these things? What does it cost me to say these things?
Tara Rubin:So, if we think about it, not so much as making a choice but having it working through the text and working through the script, and you know, one thing I think that especially early career artists don't understand is that there is an expectation that you've really done that, that you've really thought about it. I think sometimes actors believe, oh, I want to be sort of a blank slate, so if I'm given notes or I'm given adjustments, I'll be able to do them. Yes, that's important, but it is important to present a point of view about it and it could be a little off or it could be a little wrong, but in those decisions that you make about it about what you're presenting in those ideas. That gives us a chance to see your technique, to see your imagination at work. So a choice seems a little arbitrary, almost, or like it's disconnected, but it's really. The choice is to connect you. You make a choice that will show it, that will help you connect to the material.
Robert Peterpual:Yes, and I feel like in any life, you know, I could have been a cop, you could have been a librarian. So, even if you don't necessarily connect to the role or what they're doing, if you're bringing yourself and shining, you know yourself through the text. I think everything you're saying will help with that. It's just, it's more about making choices, which we do every day. News flash.
Tara Rubin:And what's important, like you know, and obviously you know the elements of drama are at play, like, the more important it is, the more exciting it is for us. You know, the higher the stakes for the situation, the more tension and suspense and excitement we'll have on art as a viewer. So going big is not always a bad idea if it's, if it's, you know, like if, if it's full, big and full.
Robert Peterpual:Big and full Well, speaking of big and full and not just about my breakfast walking into the room in a big and full way, I'm very interested in this. In recent years I just was always walking in and kind of being myself and then starting the audition and not carrying on too much. Although I love talking to people, I think it's become a thing that people talk about now and everyone it's subjective has a different view of how they want people to walk into the room. What's yours? Do you like people to kind of I think I read you don't necessarily love when someone's coming in character, quote unquote but do you like it to just be kind of snappy and not really have a lot of chit chat and just do what you're there to do? What's your vibe?
Tara Rubin:Well, it kind of goes back to what you said earlier about reading the room. There are directors who are a little bit chatty and like to put you at ease. If that's happening, go with that.
Tara Rubin:If the director is like oh, how are you today? What about the rain? What about those mats, whatever it is? I hope you'll be able to kind of naturally respond to that If there's a simple introduction I would use.
Tara Rubin:Sometimes there's so many people at the table that I just say here's our creative team, all here for you today, here's our accompanist, go over and say no, and so there's not a lot of anything preliminary to do. So I think, sadly, we kind of have to meet somewhere. You know, and there are so many more of us usually than there are of you. If I'm screening, come in, let's just do it. But you kind of have to assume, especially early on in your career, that we don't really know you yet. So everything we know about you is what's going to happen in the room that day. You know what I mean. So I think it's a little bit like going a little bit more on the formal side than the kind of casual side is not a bad idea, and maybe that's a generational thing, because I'm, you know, like maybe, but it is a. I mean, we don't know each other that well yet. So let's just that's the truth.
Robert Peterpual:That's the truth of it is that we're, we'll get, we'll know each other better after your audition yes, and in the room and then, I guess, in the hallway too, for my favorite thing is when all the actors turn and see the casting director going to the bathroom. Then they come back and everyone's like that's the casting director, they left the room and everyone's trying to like look like the care, I don't know. I just think we're all such funny people, which I love. There's a lot of humor in it, unspoken humor. You know, what's hard, I guess, in this vein is that everyone out there wants to connect with you all and leave a good impression, but I think sometimes people do forget to be human, sort of like what we're touching on. Do you have a favorite first impression story from over the years about an audition?
Tara Rubin:When we were casting the original company of Mamma Mia, it was in, I guess, 2001. And it was when everybody finally had a cell phone. So people, you know, were like, remember, cell phones were constantly going off. I mean, they still do, but I think it was worse back then because people like, just they weren't as like ingrained in our lives. And Judy Kay came into audition and she, her phone rang and she said to us, like, went over to her handbag, pulled out her phone, she said I can't talk to you right now. I'm in an audition. Of course, like, if anyone else in the world did that, we would be like, oh my God, you know, like, like, how can we tell her that? You know she can't really do that?
Tara Rubin:That's like kind of a really cool thing to do and of course it was Judy Kay and she was like sorry, let's start over.
Robert Peterpual:Like I think that's a wonderful example of just coming into the room as yourself, because if that's who you are, then you're showing who you are and it works for you. Not don't have your, don't have people call you when you're in the room everyone. But if it happens and that's you know who you are and you're able to answer it's. It's funny, because who would do that? So I think that's a that's a great example of that. You know, while we're in the room, I'm sure you witnessed a lot of actors, maybe starting out and beyond. It happens to everybody kind of getting in their own way or getting in their own head. Do you have any thoughts on this or examples of how you've been able to kind of take people out of it in the moment and then have maybe a successful audition that leads to booking or not, or just having a good impression?
Tara Rubin:Well, it seems like it usually happens when someone is thinking about himself instead of the character, or the character or instead of the work. And so, if you can, kind of, and you're not acting, you know, if you, if you're not acting for yourself, your storytelling you're doing, you know it's, there's another person there, and so the degree to which you can take that step of like this isn't about me in this moment, right now, which I realize there's a lot to ask, because actually I know it is about you in that moment, right then. Right then, you know, but when the focus is on the self rather than the character or on the text, that's when I think people have a tendency to get in their own way.
Robert Peterpual:Yeah, and you all, obviously behind the table, know that there will be costumes, there will be a set, they will be in this environment. So as much as you can sort of evoke that in the room and focus on that and see where you are, there's all these little, I guess, tangible tricks that can help you stay out of your head, and I know we're running out of time and slipping away. Ah, I know you get asked about audition tips all the time and what advice you give, and I love the advice you've given. I've read so many articles and listened to you and I think it's all marvelous. At the same time, this podcast aims to give very actionable advice. So I do have to ask you questions on auditioning specifically, and I thought a fun way to do it might be a little flash round where I share a topic or, I guess, a couple words and you just share back the first thing that pops into your head as a tip form. Does that make sense?
Tara Rubin:I'll try.
Robert Peterpual:Okay, I'll add in some cheesy music. So this is fun. All right, whenever you're ready.
Tara Rubin:I'm ready.
Robert Peterpual:Okay, first up audition etiquette.
Tara Rubin:Be polite.
Robert Peterpual:Actors dressing the part.
Tara Rubin:Suggestion maybe, but no need for costume.
Robert Peterpual:Okay, returns my cop uniform. I'm just kidding, dress toward it.
Tara Rubin:Dress toward it. Dress toward the part.
Robert Peterpual:I love that being completely off book.
Tara Rubin:Not necessary, but helpful.
Robert Peterpual:Doing a cold reading.
Tara Rubin:I don't understand why they occur.
Robert Peterpual:Same. We all want to be warm, stopping and starting a scene or song over in the room.
Tara Rubin:Unnecessary. Yes.
Robert Peterpual:Ask in questions about the material.
Tara Rubin:Try to ask them before you come in the room.
Robert Peterpual:Specific self-tape tip.
Tara Rubin:Try to do something significant early in the tape, something that's significant and part of the scene, not something extraneous to the scene. But go big early on.
Robert Peterpual:Go big and full. I think a lot of actors want to have that arc and they forget that the beginning has to start somewhere too. Maybe it's different from the end, but that's a helpful one. Okay, that was kind of it. Thank you for doing this. That was fun. Well, as far as social media goes, we need to bring this a bit into the conversation, because it does play a role in today's entertainment world. Do you think actors starting out should be active on social media and use it as a tool to showcase them? I feel like it's almost a digital business card, or does that not really matter to you?
Tara Rubin:It's helpful, as long as actors understand that everything they put on social media will never go away. We should make sure that it is a calling, that you want what you put up to be a calling card. If you are thinking about your social media as a calling card for your career as an actor, then that's a way of approaching social media. Maybe you don't want to put pictures of yourself on the beach and that, or maybe you do, just depending on your personality and the way you look at your career. I don't mean that it should be like a website necessarily, but there's certain freedom and people are capturing moments and everything. I think it's another generational thing. I think a lot of people look at actors' social media. I think it is important and I think it should be done with some consideration.
Robert Peterpual:I agree. I also want to say I love the way your office has begun to use social media, because I think recently you started posting the week's notices or the auditions coming up. Please don't stop doing that, it's so helpful.
Tara Rubin:Yeah, that was. Frankie Ramirez had that idea because we were going to these equity principle auditions and eight people would come in during the whole day. Come on, come in, let us see you.
Robert Peterpual:Yeah, it's so helpful and wonderful. So are you. Before we roll out, I would love if we could end on an additional inspiring note, because this has all been inspiring for our listeners. I'd love to know about advice you've both given and gotten, so a given and a gotten. Just what's the best piece of advice you've gotten about the entertainment industry and navigating it?
Tara Rubin:To tell the truth. When situations come up where this actor is auditioning for this role, but then he's also auditioning for this role, and how do we handle that? Tell everybody everything that they need to know. I guess nowadays it's called being transparent, but be honest, be truthful.
Robert Peterpual:I think that's wonderful advice for life in general. You can't go wrong with the truth and at the end of the day, even if it gets you in hot water, at least you know that you told the truth and you're not going to wake up in the middle of the night thinking I lied. It's important for actors too, in scenes. Be honest.
Tara Rubin:And I think we have this idea about the entertainment business and it's like run by people who are duplicitous and conniving. And so can we be humanistic in that world or will we be trampled? And the fact is that when I got that advice, I thought, oh yeah, you can just like, just doesn't mean that you'll be trampled by anyone. You just told the truth and I say tell people what they need to know. I don't need to tell everybody everything that I'm doing or everything that you know, like all the information I'm privy to. I don't need to share that with everyone, but I need to share what's important and relevant to that particular situation.
Robert Peterpual:Yes, I think that's an act of kindness and vulnerability and that's something I'm hoping we can infuse more of in the industry is just being a human being kind. Sometimes it's not read as being genuine, unfortunately. People think maybe you want something, but that's okay, that's not your problem how people read you. Second, on the opposite side, what is the best piece of advice you've given or can give to people looking to consistently work in this industry?
Tara Rubin:It's difficult to hear, probably, but be patient. It that patience is important because careers will have peaks and valleys and periods where of disappointment and frustration, and the artist's life is a difficult one, but so rewarding at the same time, and so patience will guide you through it.
Robert Peterpual:I need a Tara Rubin ripoff calendar. Tell Frankie to get that going on social media, because these quotes are filling me up and starting my day on a good note. Thank you so much for being here today, tara. It was so fun You're amazing.
Tara Rubin:You're such a great spirit yourself and your questions. Thank you it was fun to talk about. You know we talked about fun topics.
Robert Peterpual:I'm glad I so appreciate your openness and I do just want to say thank you again so much for being a positive presence in this industry. It doesn't go unnoticed and we need more people like you, so I appreciate you all around.
Tara Rubin:It is truly my pleasure. I'm casting director Tara Rubin and this is how we roll.
