How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
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How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How to Capture Your Best Actor Headshots with Sub/Urban Photography
Strike a pose! How We Role breaks down actor headshots with Amanda Pinto and Jake Nathanson of Sub/Urban Photography. From wardrobe choices to poses that convey character and confidence to picking your best photos, this episode brims with advice for how to make your headshot session a success across the board. So, whether you're brand new to the scene or a seasoned pro looking to update your gallery, get ready for a trove of wisdom from two photographers who've seen the industry evolve, and understand what it takes to stand out in the 'wild west' of entertainment.
Suburban Photography began in a classic high school darkroom learning the fundamentals, before the digital revolution swept in. Their love of photography blossomed at NYU, where a friend's need for a headshot sparked a creative fire. Amanda and Jake quickly became a dynamic duo embracing the ever-changing world of photography. Flashing forward, they have photographed beloved talent like Emmy and Tony winner Billy Porter, done commercial work with amazing brands and found joy in photographing actors. Beyond the lens, Amanda deals with different kinds of close-ups as a director and actor, while Jake also wields his creativity through writing, video editing and cinematography. For more information, please visit sub-urbanphotography.com.
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I'm Jake.
Speaker 2:I'm Amanda.
Speaker 1:And we are Suburban Photography.
Speaker 2:And this is how we Roll.
Speaker 3:When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to how we Roll, a podcast for actors by Casting Networks. Are you ready for your close-up? Thank you for tuning in to how we Roll, episode 3. Third time's the charm.
Speaker 3:As we continue to roll down the creative path, let's stop at one of the essential needs for artists looking to break into the business Headshots. Yes, the shots of our heads that almost act as an ID pass to swipe at the gateway of our business Beep. To break down this topic, we enlisted my very favorite headshot photographers here in New York City Suburban Photography. This is truly a must listen for anyone about to take headshots. They drop so many gems like hacks on what clothes to wear, posing naturally you know when someone screams, act natural and you sort of freeze like a deer in headlights or at least I do and really how to get the most out of your headshot session. To be real for a moment, I get a little nervous when I go into these actor headshot sessions, I think because it feels like there's so much pressure to get quote, unquote the right shots, whatever that means. However, after talking to these two, I feel so much better and empowered. Even Today's glittering guests are Amanda Pinto and Jake Nathanson of Suburban Photography.
Speaker 3:Suburban's origin began in a classic high school darkroom learning the fundamentals, before the digital revolution swept in. Their love of photography blossomed at NYU, where a friend's need for a headshot sparked a creative fire. Amanda and Jake quickly became a dynamic duo embracing the ever-changing world of photography. Flashing forward get it Flash Like a camera flash. They have photographed beloved talent like Emmy and Tony winner Billy Porter, done commercial work with amazing brands and found joy in photographing actors just like you and me. Beyond the lens. Amanda deals with different kinds of close-ups as a director and actor, while Jake also wields his creativity through writing, video editing and cinematography. I have been fortunate to work with these two many times and cannot say enough kind words about them. I only can hope that I didn't talk so fast that suburban sounded like suburban. You know suburban as in the car you used to drive in the suburbs suburban like the suburbs. Anyway, for more information, please visit sub-urbanphotographycom or, to make it easy, you can click the link here in the show notes.
Speaker 3:Before we dive into that conversation, friends, I want to remind you out there listening that this podcast is truly for you. We want to know how we can help you roll along this industry. So stay tuned to Casting Network's social channels for opportunities on submitting your questions, topics etc. To be answered right here on the mic. That's right, we want to feature you. Now let's feature today's guests. Please welcome the dynamic duo of Amanda and Jake. A and J AJ, aj, that's a name. This is how we roll with Suburban Photography. Amanda and Jake, my friends, how are you? It's been so long Hi. It's been so long.
Speaker 2:How are you?
Speaker 3:I'm doing well, I'm having fun on this pod rolling around Listeners. Today we have on two old pals of mine who I would say are iconic New York City photographers specializing in actor headshots Amanda Pinto and Jake Nathanson. Amanda is also an actor and director. Jake is a writer, cinematographer and editor. So between the two of them, they basically understand the entire business and are going to give us lots of golden nuggets of wisdom today. Welcome, amanda and Jake.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thanks for having us, thanks for having us. It's great to see you.
Speaker 3:Good to see you both too. For context, I would love to start somewhere that I don't think I know the answer because, though I have taken my photos with you and cannot recommend you both enough, I don't know if I got the chance to ask. I was probably running around like a Muppet. So, just for context, can you give us your sort of Marvel origin story of how you two came to capturing headshots? I know it started as far back as maybe learning about it in high school and then getting amped up in university.
Speaker 2:It did In fact it has its humble roots in the Cleveland Ohio area. Jake and I actually went to high school together, so we've known each other a very, very long time. And in high school we had we actually took the last year of film photography that was offered. Right after we graduated. They sold off all of the film developing materials and switched it over to a digital lab.
Speaker 2:So that age of us is you know very comfortable millennials, but yeah, so that's where we sort of learned. You know the basics and I think we had both always had like interest in cameras and photography, but that was where we sort of really learned the fundamentals.
Speaker 1:I feel like film photography and that's why I'm I'm so bummed that it's not a thing for young people as much as it used to be. Just a part of standard education was that it was such a meditative and very quiet part of the day where you would go in and you were in this dark room and you were pulling film out of a roll and just like slowly working your prints through these chemicals and having to experiment and not getting it right and going back and doing it again, and it just felt so different from the rest of the day when we had it like kind of like right in the middle of the day too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like right before lunch or something way to break it all up, um, and so I think that also was a big part of it as far as it becoming this slightly more expressive hobby, because you felt like a break from all the other stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, and then yeah, I mean film, photography is you learn all these things of like? You know what dodge and burn these commands that we use on our computers now like what they actually mean when you know what you do with your hands. You know dodging, dodge and burn these commands that we use on our computers now like what they actually mean when you know that's what you do with your hands.
Speaker 1:You know dodging that kind of thing Papers, exactly.
Speaker 2:But then from there we both went to undergrad. I was a drama major at NYU, jake was studying psychology and creative writing and we were just kind of the friends who always had cameras around. And because I had so many you know actor friends that I was in school with and ironically, jake's roommate shout out to Max Sheldon, who was our OG suburban headshot client, jake's roommate, classmate of mine, he had like an audition coming up and he was like hey, can you guys take a quick headshot for me? It just needs to be something simple. And so we were like, oh, we can try, sure.
Speaker 4:And so we uh you know, ran outside our dorm over to.
Speaker 2:It was second Avenue and 12th 11th 12th, you know, found a really nice brick wall. This was also, you know, 2011.
Speaker 2:At this point and uh, hopped up against the brick wall, and that was, you know, that was the first time we took a headshot.
Speaker 2:And, uh, from there it just sort of became a thing that we did for friends in undergrad. And then, as we sort of started nearing the end of our college experience, you know, realizing the realities of being artists living in New York City, it's, you know, has its ups and downs. Having some sort of stable income in a field that we both really liked, you know, was something that we really cared about. And so towards the end of our senior year, we were like maybe we should try to put some time and energy into, like, making this more of an official business. And so we both actually graduated a semester early from college, and so we had a little bit of a buffer between, you know, all of our friends finishing school and us being official graduates, and so we use that time to really sort of, you know, take on new clients, sort of expand out of our NYU network, and from there that's really sort of when we started to take it seriously.
Speaker 1:And so from there we, you know, 2016 marked the full time transition where that was the goal, for I think it was pretty early in the year that we decided to quit our other little survival jobs we had going and just put what we could into the business, and there was a lot of oh God, what do we just do? For the first couple of months of that, and then, by the end of the year, I think we had booked out our first like full month of clients in advance, and that was that, and now the calendar is popping off as it should be, and I'm so glad that y'all followed this passion.
Speaker 3:I think that's great advice right there too. If you're going to have a day job, which newsflash? We all kind of need one in this business, Unless you got some sort of sugar, something you know which no shame there cannot come into.
Speaker 3:I think that it might as well be an entertainment, you know, because then that's always been my philosophy too. Then you're sort of surrounded by people that can connect you on other projects and maybe work with them in a different regard. So I think that's awesome. I would love to know, before we really break down headshots and all the magic that you two do together, along with some of your friends, in hair and makeup, what would you say is the purpose of a headshot for an actor? I know that's kind of a simple question, but to you, how would you distill that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is the proper distillation? I mean it's a functional and hopefully expressive picture of a person that leaves a really distinct or specific impression of them, especially for someone that's never met them Should be introducing. Yeah, it's the opener for what hopefully will turn into a slightly more in-person and reciprocal relationship in some way, which I know is difficult in this day of digital submissions and whatnot.
Speaker 2:It feels like you're kind of sending everything out to the void, but you know we always tell our clients to especially.
Speaker 2:You know we'll get into this too, but headshots can be super nerve wracking. For a lot of people Makes total sense. It's, you know, a big day, but that you know, a headshot is essentially a business tool. Obviously you want it to be something that is expressive and artful and, you know, reflects who you are. But the headshot, at the end of the day, the goal is that it's like you get an audition or, you know, you book a job from it, and so trying to combine all those elements into an image that introduces you as who you are and you know what you want to be, you know portraying or you know living through those, through a character, you know whether it be something that's commercial, legit, whatever, but that that photo can feel like it's true, it's representation of you, so that you know when you end up in the room they'll be like oh, this picture, this is exactly the person that's standing in front of me, or the person that you know is on on the little zoom screen or whatever it is now.
Speaker 3:But yeah, these days that's such a wonderful definition. You both had an introductory and then an impression. You know you want to make a good first impression but you also want to make sure it's natural and it's you. You don't want to be sort of over retouched and have longer hair and then walk in with short hair and, you know, just like a totally different face. So I think that's a wonderful way to put it. Well, you know, we mentioned earlier as multi-hyphenates yourselves when you first started taking these headshots for actors, what was something that initially sort of surprised you in these sessions as you were learning Just having been artists and, I'm sure, getting your picture taken over the years.
Speaker 2:I think something that shocks me still to this day is just, yeah, I think the way that and you know society, it's a tough place out here, but the way that people will sometimes come to a session with such, you know, fear I will say dread sometimes, fear and nerves, totally normal dread. Sometimes I'm a little like oh no, like I'm so sorry. You've been dreading this for weeks and weeks and weeks. It's like let's make this a fun experience. It's something that you know you can walk away from feeling good about because you know, hopefully, a good headshot session will lead you to photos that get you more auditions and more jobs, which is, you know, what every actor wants.
Speaker 2:And so, from kind of early on, we started to notice like, oh, this is a really delicate day for a lot of people, and so I think that that's something you know us also coming from backgrounds of you know I understand what it feels like to go into an audition room. Jake understands what it's like being a creative on the other side of the table you know those kinds of things and approaching our work with those concepts in mind and trying to, like you know, lower the stakes as much as possible to be like let's just have fun. Let's just, you know, create a space where we can hang out, chill, you know, but you just like to talk a lot when we're shooting, it's really like nothing too crazy. Besides that, and just keeping things, you know, light and fun, as opposed to making it feel like this huge, like this, must be the most pure expression of your artistic soul in this one image, kind of vibe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you take the pressure out, and that's something I always say when I recommend y'all which I'll never stop doing is that you make people so comfortable, but you also make it really fun, Like you're saying. I think the first time I booked with you, you were making baked goods and you literally gave me some kind of I want to say it was like some kind of German dessert I'd never had before.
Speaker 3:It was really. I can't remember what it was. No, maybe it was just like cake with a brownie on the bottom. I don't know, but it was amazing and I still dream about it.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think of what it would have been. Yeah, that's really funny, Because now I'm like I shouldn't make it. I'm trying to think what you were making in 2017.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it could have been something.
Speaker 2:I don't know. It was like a cinnamon pastry kind of thing with cream cheese. I don't know.
Speaker 3:Oh, there might have been cream cheese involved.
Speaker 1:I'm so black to you?
Speaker 3:No it was very memorable. Good first impression. I mean people when they give me sugar. I never forget it. But I want to run down sort of a headshot session with the both of you while we have you here, to try and get some really good tips for everybody listening out there. I know personally, again, how wonderful it is to work with you. So from the moment you book via email or whatever it is, what's sort of the next step? Do you pick an actor's brain about roles they're hoping to play? How do you kind of work together to get an actor's needs met?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean so for that from that initial booking process we hit people with a lot of fine print even before they, to try to communicate as clearly what it is that we're asking of them to make it really successful. We also, you know, attempt to try to have some transparency about turnaround time, a bit of the experience, some photos of the space, you know, like that's all stuff that's accessible. So it doesn't feel and I think we're even trying to pivot a little bit more to that, because I think when we were first coming up, there was this like veil of mystery on top of all these headshot photographers that you didn't really know what you were about to walk into. And I feel like I'm subscribing more and more to stripping as much of that mystery away, cause I don't think it builds up nerves again.
Speaker 1:It's like another part of like I'm not sure who to expect?
Speaker 2:Who are these people? What's the day going to look like? Um, so yeah, so we try to be as like, transparent, upfront as possible with you know. This is where you're going to go, this is what the space is going to look like, this is how we're going to start, which you know. And one more thing before you know, we meet people, you know our clients face to face is we have like a booking questionnaire, so we just sort of like to get some preliminary questions out of the way just to give us a little bit of a taste of what somebody might be looking for that day, and we need to have special things prepared or whatnot.
Speaker 1:And it helps us to kind of put them into a frame of mind that we're approaching the whole thing from that.
Speaker 1:We want you to think really pragmatically about some of this stuff, because in a headshot and this is also what you can say about any good photo period is that the photo is only as interesting as what is in the frame, and that could also be what is not in the frame as well as what all is in the frame.
Speaker 1:So something that is really about somebody's face, like that's its own choice, something that's about the outfit as well as the backdrop as well as the lighting, like all these elements play in to indicate really different things. And I think our goal is to help people understand that they are not the only thing that makes this happen. Like their preparation is what makes it happen. Their wardrobe choices, the collaboration that we have, the lighting that we choose to be working with that day, with them all that kind of stuff like helps to make that image, so that when people come in feeling like they have to like bare their souls in front of the camera, like it's, it's not quite that serious because we get to let all the other stuff do some talking as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's so true, and you reminded me, actually, of a book I started reading that I really have no business quoting because I haven't finished it, but it's called the Science of Storytelling and in it it talks about how the brain is addicted to change, and change is what makes people curious.
Speaker 3:So sort of the prime shot for every director is usually what a close up of an actor seeing something, seeing change you know, seeing the building explode or whatever it is. So in a headshot session I feel like, if I don't know, it's probably helpful for actors to come in thinking about maybe changes they're going to be witnessing or just whatever it is. I'm someone who kind of goes in and likes to let people that are talented like you sort of direct me and give me the way to go. I'm also aware of what I kind of need. So maybe we can go through a bit of that questionnaire what are some of the things you would advise people out there think about if they aren't blessed enough to be able to come to New York and work with you?
Speaker 3:Absolutely Before going into a session.
Speaker 2:Totally. So. You know, first, I guess, we always ask people what their pronouns are and then from there we usually like to ask, over the course of the next three to five years, what are three to five types of characters that you see yourself playing or that you want to play, and these can be things that you're getting called in for currently. They can be things that maybe you're not getting called in for currently but you really feel like, oh, like I know, I really want to be like a DA on law and order, but I never get those calls. I always get victim or whatever that kind of thing might be. Um, so that gives us a bit of a taste of you know what kind of wardrobe we should be looking at, what kind of background choices you should be making lighting choices, that kind of thing to all indicate those characters. I think that, um, depending on what market you're working in, I think headshots can sort of look a little bit different and ask different things of actors. So, like you know, in LA for example, I feel like sometimes they like those choices to be a little bit more obvious, like they might want to see you like if you want to be a doctor and an LA show, they might want to see you in a lab coat, like that's just what we've noticed as like a trend with clients who come in with, you know, west coast representation, whereas in new york sometimes they're a little bit more like, oh, we'd love to see you know a hint of it, like maybe wear something blue, but we don't need to see you, you know, with a stethoscope around your neck, kind of thing. Um, but yeah, so like little differences, like that, but all leading towards the same you thing, which is that, because this industry has become so heavily reliant on online submissions and like the digitization of everything that you know, I, like you've mentioned, we work on film projects too. So, like you know, being on the reverse side of a platform like that becomes really illuminating.
Speaker 2:When you're like, oh wow, these people, these you know lovely professionals who work in casting, sit here day in and day out and just look through seeds of images, just like scrolling and scrolling, thumbnails, thumbnails, thumbnails.
Speaker 2:So when we're picking out, you know, the sort of lighting wardrobe, all those kinds of things, it's like what is the thing that we can sort of grab someone's attention with? That pops from a technical perspective, and then also it's like, oh, someone's attention with that pops from a technical perspective. And then also it's like, oh hey, I'm submitting for you know girl next door, 18 to 20, you know loves, you know pink or whatever, something like that. And it's like what can we sort of hint at in those images that when someone's scrolling through you know 500 pictures, they'll be like oh hey, that looks kind of like what I was picturing, or that looks like what when I was writing this breakdown, like that's what I was envisioning. And so that's sort of you know circling back long winded explanation as to like why we ask that question is that it's like that is sort of the direction the industry has headed in and so we want to be able to support actors and giving them sort of the best shot of you know standing out in a digital sphere.
Speaker 3:I mean, an amazing headshot can give you exponentially more at bats, so to speak. I noticed that after working with you on having your headshots, I was getting in called so many more times than the ones I was using, which, granted, I will say, before I got my first headshots, my mom kind of I won't say bullied me into getting my eyebrows waxed. But she did, she did recommend it. She said that's what actors do, and so there's some pencil thin, weird shots out there of me which I don't know why I'm bringing it up. Might cut this part.
Speaker 2:Anyway, or you should put it with this link I think we should see the pictures. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Well, here we are. I have them next to me.
Speaker 2:It goes eight by ten.
Speaker 3:That would be frightening, but it is, yeah, to express sort of the essence of a character like you're saying that you want to play is wardrobe and what I noticed with the both of you something so fun. I don't know if you want me to call this out, but a tip you have in your confirmation emails is to buy clothes that you know, speak to you, that you love, and just keep the tags on and you can always return them after, because brand new clothes look better on camera and that I never returned any of the clothes I bought, but that has really stuck with me. Yep, do you still advise that?
Speaker 1:We definitely.
Speaker 2:Off the record. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we definitely do. Okay, okay, off the record. I don't know how many At Zara. I don't know how many At Zara. I know Sorry Zara, Sorry H&M, I don't think any Zara CEOs are tuning into this.
Speaker 1:No, no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, probably not. That could be very naive and also, people probably don't return them in the end.
Speaker 2:A lot of people will pick something and they'll be like, actually I think I really love this shirt, and then they'll end up keeping it, you know that was brought in just for the day which felt like everyone was like don't mess with the jacket.
Speaker 1:But it looked amazing, it looked great.
Speaker 2:So if you're willing to take that, we're not saying go that crazy, but fresh t-shirts.
Speaker 3:It did make some of those shots real good, some indie films and like commercials that I've worked on, do that Like they keep the tags on and then they return it after it's all about the budget. Tags on and then they return it after it's all about the budget and you know if it's getting that moment to shine why not?
Speaker 2:I think that's a great yeah. Or it's like things you might not wear every day, like I feel like that's another big one. Where it's like, oh, you know, when reps get involved and have big asks and that kind of thing, where it's like, oh, they really want me in, you know, like a pinstripe blazer or something like that, like I'll never wear this. It's like go pick up the pinstripe blazer, we'll take the shot and then you know, maybe you'll like it, you'll keep it. If you don't like it, return it.
Speaker 3:Now there's rumors out there and sometimes we see it on really hit TV shows where someone's wearing stripes and the shot's a little fuzzy. Are there things you recommend people don't wear for headshots? Are those sort of myths?
Speaker 1:There's definitely. There is something. There's something really really specific on camera that happens when a pattern is too tight, and when I say that I mean like it's really really like it's almost like a thread by thread pattern that has to happen, and it's called moire and it's this very weird like purple and green, kind of like pixelated funky effect where the sensor is like trying to make sense of all of this.
Speaker 3:You described that so well. This knowledge is blowing my mind.
Speaker 2:I know exactly what you're talking about and it's like not even necessarily a patterned shirt Like we had someone recently come in with, like a silky corset top.
Speaker 1:A lot of it has to do with the texture of the shirt itself, like it'll be a weird kind of shiny like where it looks good in person, but that is like that's so specific. Otherwise, almost any pattern, any color besides like neon stuff, or like there's this really funky like corally orange that perpetually doesn't play well with skin tones once the light hits it, I feel like yeah, that's really it. I feel like this is like my niche.
Speaker 2:Top three yeah, but Okay, this is interesting, avoid that bright corally orange, anything with a really fine pattern like tiny little dots, tiny little lines. It's just again. You know, when you think about it getting shrunk down to, it's like no one's going to really be able to make that out. But I think there were a lot of and still exists to this day, a lot of headshot rules that people like to you know put out there that it's like it has to be a jewel tone with a this and a that Like. My favorite one was. Someone once said I heard you always have to show one ear in a headshot and I was like I if you want to show an ear, let's go for
Speaker 2:it you know, I don't know if you have to show one ear and every headshot.
Speaker 2:But things like that where it's like you know, if you love florals or something, it's like where are florals? You watch TV. It's like this is another thing that we try to recommend to people too. If they're kind of stuck in wardrobe which we know, it's like picking out clothes can be really daunting for a lot of people. It's like not everybody you know is, you know, paying that much attention to styling all the time. But if you watch TV shows like you know, if you want to be on I'll use like White Lotus for an example I feel like they have a really great, except five minutes later we've sung the whole thing.
Speaker 3:Why not? And Jennifer Coolidge come on in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's going to sing, but yeah, so like that show I feel like is really specific because of the location. You know it's like somewhere tropical, it's vacation. You know it's like somewhere tropical, it's vacation. You know, like I think that first season we had a friend come in. He was like, oh, I really love the general manager of that show, like I want to play a part like that, and so he brought in, like you know, a Hawaiian print shirt and we used the yellow background and you know, with the lighting and sort of combination of expression, it was totally you could see him existing in.
Speaker 1:It was like a little mischievous and it's in his expression and just the way. But the interplay with the wardrobe, it just like it indicates something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you could be like, okay, white loads of season two or three or whatever, it's like we could totally see this guy, you know, existing in that world. So it's things like that where, if you're you know, shows that you really want to be on, or like you know, if you love Shondaland or something like that, you know, sort of in those veins. It's like watch some of that content, see what the people are wearing on TV, and then, you know, make your own choices from there, sort of be inspired by that. People love to layer on TV, which is what we always recommend too. It's like layers read so well on camera. Yes, you know, it just adds more texture.
Speaker 2:Again, it's like the picture is just, you know, mid chest up, so it's like one of the little things that we could sort of fit in there to make it more interesting, like Jake said, and also, you know, continue to sort of hint at characters. So, you know, like a T-shirt with a hoodie and a jean jacket. You know we're always down to like try different things like that and see what those little changes can do. Um, but those again, all those things can sort of, you know, make a big difference. In the end it might seem kind of small, but when you look at the picture it'd be like oh, that grabs my attention versus. You know, maybe something just with a plain blue t-shirt might look nice. Still, there's nothing wrong with a plain blue t-shirt, um. But there are ways that you can sort of exactly no, no hate, can't hate on blue t-shirts, um. But yeah, they're just things that can be more interesting because, like you know, again, people on tv aren't usually just wearing like plain blue t-shirts, I don't know call me crazy.
Speaker 3:Someone can call me out, not necessarily so would you say, the more options people can bring in, the better sort of strategically strategic options. Yes, we bring in the better Sort of strategically Strategic options.
Speaker 1:Yes, we regularly get the suitcase wardrobe explosion where it's like every main rotation item ends. You for the first time most likely are making sense of your career. For you that that is not a great place to start. Have good ideas and we will provide you kind of with like the new york headshot starter pack. As far as we're thinking super logistically about what casts most often here, like looking at the body of work that you have, like what, what can we infer about the types of stuff that you could be doing?
Speaker 1:Um, but it's really helpful if in that selection of things that kind of pops out of the suitcase, you can start to group some stuff together on your own, like these all fit under the umbrella category of like new age period piece, like Bridgerton, something like that. I like this neckline, I like the way whatever, and then like this is my procedural stuff or slash like succession-y sort of world and it's a selection of four whatever button-ups or pleasers we usually say that like somewhere around, like three-ish options for each look that you're planning on shooting is nice that way.
Speaker 2:We just have you know, if we try something and it's not really working, we have some backups. Or, you know, we can sort of start to pair things off in a way that maybe it's not how you'd wear it in real life but on camera you'll be like oh yes, this looks great. Um, so just to sort of have extra options without or, like you're saying, without being too too crazy bringing the whole closet.
Speaker 3:Don't need to bring the whole closet Um.
Speaker 2:Chuck, talking to your friends obviously representation, if you have it, always talking to them friends, family you can always check in and be like what looks good on me, like what do you think Like colors that you see me in that you're like I love that. Or like you know a shirt that I wear that you always think looks great. Even little things like that can be like a good, um, you know sounding board or a place to start if you're feeling super overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:Um, take all that with a grain of salt as well.
Speaker 3:Like the fact that you get well, I mean, yeah, if you have like a budget, it depends, you know, if you're just having a friend, take this yourself. These are great things to really think about. But if you are spending the money to go to great photographers, find peace in the fact that they'll help you do these things as well, know what you want going in, but the day of you should be able to have folks that are saying, oh, wear this with this and this will be great. On this background, they'll collaborate with you. Don't feel like you have to be alone, and if you feel that way, maybe you got to look elsewhere. So this is helpful to know. Another thing people get nervous about, too is kind of the hair and makeup situation, and I know y'all used to have at least someone your friend, alex, right that you partnered.
Speaker 2:Still Alex, still around 10 years, strong, 10 years strong.
Speaker 1:Alex took a little sabbatical for a couple of months, but Alex has been back for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pandemic sabbatical Thought. Maybe Alex wanted to go to LA. They went out the West Coast, realized they wanted to come Visited home.
Speaker 1:Phoenix actually, and spent most of the time there, but then turned back around and is a New Yorker once again. I love them, they're so wonderful.
Speaker 2:So wonderful.
Speaker 3:Most places will have someone that can come in and help you with that, that you can sort of like book an extra wavelength I that can come in and help you with that, that you can sort of like book an extra wavelength. I don't even know what a wavelength means. That doesn't make any sense. But I will say for tips of people out there looking to go into these sessions, one thing that you all taught me just as a male identifying person, you can come in with scruff and then shave to get more looks out of the session. Obviously, a lot of other people out there can do other things with their face makeup wise that I wasn't going into the realm of, but are there certain things that you give people as far as advice in that regard too?
Speaker 1:yeah, big time. I mean, I think that's huge. I think for any male identifying clients who plan on going on a facial hair journey during their session, that looking grooming is a really smart thing to do, just because you never know, no matter how gentle you're trying to be, if you're going to nick yourself or have some redness or irritation that shows up and so the entire back half of your headshot session are not usable, necessarily unretouched, and that's also something that we like to try to provide as much as we can, that there will be final retouched images that are kind of your main photos. But we don't want you like everything is going to be downloadable for you and this doesn't go for every photographer necessarily, but we like you to be able to pay for the download link.
Speaker 3:I've realized, yes.
Speaker 1:Um, but we like you to just have all those images because so much there's so much emphasis on just the amount of content one person is supposed to have which I have my own qualms with but to make it as usable as you can across the entire session, from start to finish, so that if a particular shot feels right but you don't feel like spending the extra money to have it retouched, you throw it up there or submit it with the audition, whatever it might be, and see if it lands.
Speaker 2:And grooming for us is sort of the way that we break down our levels of makeup application. We degendered our services a long time ago, so we just try to like break it down by the amount of makeup. So grooming for us is sort of our least amount of makeup application and that's, you know, popular amongst male identifying clients or people who you know never, ever ever wear makeup.
Speaker 2:You know it's akin to the amount of makeup that, like you, if you went on a TV show, robert, that you you know that kind of makeup that they would put on you. So just kind of covering up bags, uneven skin tone, that kind of thing, just to sort of, you know it makes the final product just a little bit more polished. We always encourage people to select those services. We don't require them just because we do realize that it can be a financial burden for some people, but we do highly suggest booking an artist because the products that they use and you know, that sort of professional touch can make a big difference in the final product.
Speaker 1:It's just an understanding of how makeup communicates with light.
Speaker 1:And even for I feel like when we run into the most issues, it's people who quote unquote don't wear a whole lot of makeup on a daily basis, but they definitely they wear makeup, and out of fear of either having had somebody put too much makeup on them before in the past or just not really being down to let go of control of that situation, which, once again, is completely understandable.
Speaker 1:That is kind of like the sweet spot of makeup that we do for the majority of our headshot sessions and that Alex is particularly good with, and I think that that is way more of a trend these days than it used to be, where you're a little safer, coming into a situation with a makeup artist, that they will understand what it is you're trying to go for, but so much of it is just like skin coloration, shine reduction, the type of like if a product has SPF in it, that flashes back in a really funky way, and so something that you, in your day-to-day life, you thought was totally fine. The second the light hits it, and then we're kind of out of luck because we don't have our makeup artist kit with us to be able to like give to you to put on your own face. That's really helpful. So, yeah, we really, we really do emphasize it as an important extra thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean Alex. We're very fortunate to have worked with Alex for so long and, you know, obviously trust them implicitly you know we realized that that's not the case for everybody.
Speaker 2:But you know, if you are searching for a makeup artist, you know, obviously, if it's a photographer whose work you really like. You know the majority of the time it's like their portfolio. If you like those images, it's like the makeup artists that they like to work with are the ones that they refer. So you know, if you've seen the pictures, you like the way they look, if you can trust them, you know trust, trust their opinion and trust what they're recommending, because that rapport is also something that's really important. Um, you know we're good friends with another headshot photographer shout out to Jess Osborne and, uh, you know we talk about makeup a lot and I know, for her especially, that that is a big um, a big thing. For you know, every photographer uses different kinds of lighting, different kinds of cameras. So, you know, working with somebody who that photographer has worked with before I always find to be, you know, super important, because that relationship is also very valuable.
Speaker 3:That makes a lot of sense, and I also feel like there's something to be said for just you can't put a price on feeling more confident during the session, and if makeup helps with that as well, you're not going to be retouched. I mean, listen, I don't know what's going on with AI, let's not bring them into the chat, but you're not going to be retouched live during a session. So it also might boost sort of your confidence. Which leads me to another question I had for you too. I feel like many people struggle with posing naturally. I mean, it's always fun when you're taking a photo and someone's like be natural, and then I just turn into like a full on Muppet, you know. So you two have such a gift for making people feel really comfortable right from the jump. I think I know you always start with a sillier face, or at least you did for me, and maybe or maybe that was just my face.
Speaker 2:Oh no, we still do. No, that's that will never, die.
Speaker 3:I love that so much and so I mean what are your best tips overall to help people relax and feel confident? Maybe things people can take with them again if they aren't blessed to be with y'all.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think that's something you know. As we've moved on in our photography journey, we've started taking a lot of other kinds of photography too as well. Like you know, portraiture, commercial work, that kind of stuff. So when we're working with people taking portraits, something that I've learned or we've learned, I think, really in the past year is that to trust your instincts. If there's anything you can do, just trust the ideas that you have and the things that you want to try and just try them. You know this.
Speaker 2:We try to, like you said, we try to create as safe of a space as possible to be like oh, I have this idea for something, let me try it. And you know, nine times out of 10, it usually is great. So, as much as you can sort of you know, trust the thoughts that you're having and follow through on those, I feel like that's a huge key to success. And you know, if you're working with a photographer who you know is a good photographer, hopefully they'll either be like that's great, do that again. Or they'll be like I see where you're going for, like let's try something a little bit different. And it just sort of starts that conversation in a way that feels more organic than us being like okay, now put your hand on your hip and put your other hand in your pocket, which is a totally valid version of this as well, and we do that a lot of the time too.
Speaker 1:And for headshots too, because, like that's more for portrait stuff. For head shots we're playing in a really tight frame, yeah, so less is definitely more and hopefully that I would, I would hope, to alleviate some pressure for people about, if you're coming in for a straight up headshot session, like there's a lot of guidance that we give that's very minimal, um, to just kind of keep someone within the best like cause we're lighting for face and here. So if you step too much this way or bend your body a little bit too much that way, like it starts to look really strange and so we'll kind of put some parameters on that. But for the portrait stuff is where, yeah, I feel like, if anything, I want to start to have people you know really look through inspiration images and get an idea of, okay, so this famous actor, like I feel like someone who's been killing around, like Coleman Domingo Every photo I've seen of him just looks amazing.
Speaker 2:Dream client.
Speaker 1:And if you start to dissect the positioning that he's in. It's insane, like if you were to just like try doing that yourself, like literally mimicking it, and it feels ballistic.
Speaker 3:Exactly, yeah, just like try to pull it back up. Oops, I revealed that I have sweatpants on.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I'm sorry, but I feel like to start to feel comfortable. Putting your body into those types of positions and just knowing what it feels like and how much is going into that can be really helpful, because I think the second we start to push someone in that direction a little bit, they go. This feels really silly.
Speaker 1:I'm like yes, it might feel that's going to feel really silly for a full-length portrait that you're once again. You're trying to make it look interesting, but it's like a person just standing totally straight forward towards the camera. That's a choice if we have great styling, a really cool lighting gimmick or like something is going on to enhance that starkness. But it can also not look so great sometimes.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a lot of trust and having that safe space, like you two are emphasizing, which I think is so important because, again, it is your headshot session, this is your session. So if someone's sort of pushing you somewhere you don't want to go, you should advocate for yourself and feel the need to. You know you can push back. You know, don't feel like you have to just fully put your trust in someone you're just meeting. I mean, I've gotten my headshots done by someone that was pushing me somewhere else that didn't work out. And then you look at the photos and it's sort of very prevalent in them and not things you want to, you want to lead with. So at the end of the day, you do have to advocate for yourselves. And it's hard when you're spending that money and maybe you're in the middle of the session and starting to realize it You're like, but you know you can always stop.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I will say once people kind of finish the photos, another tough thing is picking them. What's your advice for picking photos? I know if you have representation they'll weigh in you can we always see the people online? I'm sure your feed is filled with the people dumping maybe 10 photos and saying, hey, fam, you know what to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one, three, five. Yeah, it's always one, three and five.
Speaker 3:I will say the first photo taken besides the silly one is usually a good one. Same with the first take of a self tape. And then I do 45 more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you come back to it and being like, actually I think you still don't use one, because you can't possibly use one, that's the first take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wasn't that easy. Picking is tough. We use a software called Pixie Set. I think it's pretty popular amongst a lot of photographers now, but it's like an online gallery software that basically generates your own website with your proofs on it. So we, you know, encourage people when we send that gallery link or like share this with you know, obviously, your representation, friends, family, people that you trust, people who know you, and then you know there's also value, I think, in sharing with people that maybe don't know you so well, just to sort of see what images you know speak to people.
Speaker 2:The software that we use allows you to make favorites lists, which is cool, so you can sort of like go through and compare people's favorites. A lot of times that's nice. Like, if you know, I actually just got an email this morning from a client who said that all of his reps and him agree that this one shot is like the main shot. Said that all of his reps and him agree that this one shot is like the main shot. So if it's an image that, like, a lot of people are agreeing is like, the money shot makes it into a bunch of lists, yeah, trust that.
Speaker 2:That usually means something. And then from there it's like. You know, we also oftentimes would recommend you know we send kind of a lot of pictures. We're a little trigger happy. So you know, if you're getting a couple hundred images, sometimes I don't think it's a bad idea to go through and sort of make your own list of that, so like, maybe you narrow it down to like oh, I like these 50 pictures or whatever. So that way you know the people who are looking at those pictures aren't going to pick the one that you hate. Or you know a shot that you'd be like oh, I'd never, ever choose that. So you know, sometimes that can be nice too, and like maybe mom and dad don't necessarily have to see all 300 because they'll be like I love the moment you're smiling, you look so happy, you're like okay, but you know I want to be, like you know, a bad guy. I got to be a sad worker. Exactly. This is edgy. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:This is supposed brick wall, which I'm glad you brought that up, because that was such a trend. I mean, photos used to be black and white. We've gone through so many trends. It feels like now we still live in the space of sort of like the Riverdale-y filter, like bluish kind of situation that's at least I reconciled my mind with like the sort of blurred edges. What would you say are the trends now? What are we moving toward?
Speaker 2:Not to date this episode Now. Let's date it.
Speaker 3:This is a good question moving toward Not to date this episode Now. Let's date it. I mean, all the advice you've given is evergreen, but for now, in 2024.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is the trend? I think the trend is like a little shady is how much pressure there is on the actor to provide every possible bit of content that they can wrap their minds around for themselves. And I think that that is a crazy ask. I think it puts so much time and energy and effort for this one individual to try to conjure up all of those things, and I think that with that it becomes super diluted at the same time. Because if you have a photo of you doing like literally everything, like well, like what is there left to know about?
Speaker 3:like what is the?
Speaker 1:what is the mystery?
Speaker 3:Totally. I've already seen them riding a bike with eating ice cream. You know, in this rom-com scene or there is the pressure, like you're saying, that's not sustainable, to, let's say, you want to be on white Lotus, to film a scene that looks like it's straight out of white Lotus and then have that to send to casting full production. You know, green screen background, whatever it is, it's wild, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there is both beautiful things that have come from this sort of like digital revolution in the industry and then also things that make it, you know, more difficult, more competitive, you know, and it just yeah, like you said, it just puts a lot of demands on the actor in a way that I would say, you know, I finished drama school in 2011. And I think things were very different then. Oh, I'm sorry I've been, oh, wow thank you for 2014 I went to drama school in 2011.
Speaker 1:I graduated in 2015 so yeah, thank you, jake, let's pump the brakes um, yeah wikipedia exactly um, but yeah, things were like totally different then.
Speaker 2:I think some of the things that we're seeing now were like just starting to happen. I mean, like I went to school, we didn't, you know there was, we had no reels, there was no, you know, none of that was being taught.
Speaker 1:You're not allowed to access. We were not allowed to access. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Any footage there was, we weren't allowed to have it because it was like, even if you had that video of you singing a fierce you know song, you weren't allowed to have it. So I think that those differences now, and even like headshots then, like when we started taking headshots, first of all the trend was outdoor. We were like shooting pretty much exclusively outdoor headshots.
Speaker 1:And, you know, started with a brick wall and then it moved to like blurred down the street Lots of little bokeh circles and like a really, really tight lens, and then, yeah, it switched to like really heavily processed, like very filmic but instagrammy looking studio lighting, and I feel like now those of us who kind of like jumped into that school I feel like the portfolio is diversifying, cause I think also the thing about the headshot world I don't think people necessarily think about quite as often is the photographer getting fussy with their own work.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like if you've been putting people in the same setup for two, three years, you start to go a little crazy. Like I'm like what is my version of this? And so I think for us it's constantly trying to get out of the way of the person we're trying to capture as much as possible. I think that's like what the new approach is is that I'm not, I don't want to stand in the way of getting the right shot for that person, cause it's like, whether or not I woke up in like a bright pink mood, like as a photographer, necessarily like that is exactly the right thing for this person, um, and that could have been something that we came up years ago as a setup, but now it's important to bring it back, and so I think that just trying to be a little bit more discerning, person to person- yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's coming across to a little bit more in like the general population Like less mock up, more personality, authenticity, yeah.
Speaker 2:Authenticity is totally the word for it. Yeah, it's like if you, I feel like maybe a couple years ago the vibe was like everybody and you know this is also very much still in our portfolios like solid colored backgrounds, bright, fresh smiles. I feel like that was sort of the vibe for everybody across the board, like no matter who you were walked in, kind of like saying either their rep said they needed this or like that's just what you know everybody kind of had at the time. I think that now that is still totally a part of the conversation, but I think that, like Jake just said, like maybe somebody you know that doesn't make any sense for them.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I had a really cool client the other day who came in. It was like a Bronx native and like boxed and had like a really cool like kind of like bowl cut haircut and I was like I would never in a million years do you know, like the normal kind of thing for you. It just, you know it doesn't make sense for the kinds of work you want to be doing is, you know, talk like I want to go out for like softie brothers movies, that kind of thing. It's like the softy brothers, yeah, a headshot, you know, with a lilac background in a in a, you know, floral shirt might not make sense for the softy brothers that kind of might be too soft.
Speaker 3:Might be too soft wow, and it's safty.
Speaker 2:I think I always keep saying softy, safty, safty.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry to the brothers um, but yeah, but like trying to really, and that's where you know, again, we love living in new york because there are so many amazing people who do this and like I guess another secret about the industry is that, like we all kind of talk to each other and, like you know, we love our other photographer friends, Like everybody is so good at the thing that they do, Um, that it's like if you're looking at someone's work and you're like, oh, that, like I love that because I feel like you know that's the kind of work I want to be going out for those pictures, Like you know, give me that. It's like go to that person, Like totally, because there is enough. You know, that's what's amazing about living in New York, LA I think even Atlanta now too, has a lot of this going on. But it's like there are different photographers who you know, have different things that they love to do and, you know, do your shopping around.
Speaker 2:Don't feel like you know shopping around, don't feel like you know you have to go to one person because that's like the person to go to or whatever, um, but there's a lot of people doing a lot of, you know, cool and different stuff. So we've even heard I've heard this from a few people who have west coast representation and someone on the west coast can tell me if this is not true. Um, but they like people to go to two photographers. A lot like they'll pick two different people to sort of create like they might send you to somebody who's a little more like stripped down a little more, you know whatever, and then they might send you to somebody who is a little more commercial, a little bit brighter, fresher, so that way you naturally kind of get that variety in your portfolio. Mind you, I think you know we we strive to do both of those things in our session.
Speaker 3:So I don't think you have to go. You're two people automatically, which is part of the magic of both of you, and I do think it's. You know I wanted to start this will be one of the earlier episodes because it's just an invaluable building block. It's such an important investment for your career as an actor and I appreciate both of you. I know we're running out of time here, but I do have a quick flash photography round. I don't know if you saw what I did there, but I'm just going to throw out some statements or topics and I would love you to just shout out the first thing that comes into your head. So just like really quick little sound bites that are relevant to today's topic. Okay, Insert music. Okay, Must have. Look for an actor's headshot gallery.
Speaker 1:Procedural Blazer man is nodding her head.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah we got a second.
Speaker 2:Every rep like, no matter who it is. Every rep is like. You need something for a procedure.
Speaker 1:Sorry if you're in New York in particular, also LA, but like that is the bread and butter. You could get cast in that environment any day of the week and they work on those shows so fast you you can't spend any extra time with them.
Speaker 2:Looking at a photo of you in a t-shirt, wondering what you look like in a blazer, you have to put it on I worked on a procedural once as an actor and when I got to set and they were doing my hair and makeup, they were literally like on the call sheet had printed out the picture and they're like this is exactly what we want you to look like. And it was. I was in a white button, up a black blazer and my hair was like pulled back in a low bun and it was like that's because of the headshot. So you know, it's like if you can do that and I think in that world, especially because things happen so quickly, it's like you know those shows run around the clock all the time. They don't have a lot of time in that industry to be, you know, looking at pictures and being like I think they could maybe do this. So I think you're, jake, nailed it. I would have said proceed to the next one.
Speaker 3:That's spot on. Yeah, it's so invaluable and that happens a lot. It's like wear what you're wearing in your headshot or bring the clothes that you auditioned in. You know that's perfect advice. Quick addendum.
Speaker 1:If you are selling 17, do not need a blazer shot, unless it's like a gossip girl style thing. But it's not the same. It's not the same.
Speaker 3:Yeah, preppy's a little different. That's a good event. Okay, common headshot session mistakes actors make.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:You pick.
Speaker 1:Oh, we hear that.
Speaker 3:I that took me a second. I was like we hear that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we hear that all the time and I think for some stuff we appreciate having a little bit more agency, especially if we're kind of like inspired by a wardrobe piece for like, oh, let us build something for you, um. But I don't know like point of view coming in with that mindset of like. I have a strong point of view today, and this is also was talking about when selecting your photographer. We've had people come in sometimes and they will be showing us inspiration images from a different photographer that they liked.
Speaker 1:And we'll be like Hmm, why didn't you go to that? Because we can do that, for sure, but I feel like point of view from the jump, I like this person's work because this, this and this, I see myself looking good in this sort of light or this sort of setup, because I think it'll function in this way. And so look at the look at the portfolios, look at headshot backgrounds from our work online or any other photographer's work online that you're going to and be like I like that stuff. That's, this is the stuff that brought me here today. Um, and to just kind of remember that, yeah, there's a um that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a actress and like web designer, digital guru. Her name is Sarah Kleist and she recently had this post where she said you know, when you're going into a photo session, it's like your photographer is your photographer, but ultimately you are your own creative director. And I think this comes to you know, as we now again this digital world so much content. You know, you are ultimately the person who is sort of like curating what your image is going to be and what your brand is going to be. We're happy to help out as much as we possibly can along the way, but you know, we want to make sure you are 100 happy at the end of the day and we can't read your mind, unfortunately wish we could.
Speaker 2:But as much of that sort of work you can do beforehand to know, like what that is for you, then we are so amped to be able to like collaborate, bounce ideas back and forth where you're like, oh, you know, like I really love retro colors and like if I could be on that 70s show for the rest of my life, like you know something like that that we love hearing things in that vein, because then it gives us a lot of ideas and we can start pulling out options and be like well, what do you think about this, what do you think about that? But you know, it's sort of just having that information is hugely helpful as opposed to walking in, being like I don't know. You guys can just do what you want, which we're happy to do. We're happy to do what we want, but we just want to make sure that you, at the end of the day, are you know?
Speaker 1:feel confident they're for you the actor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely yeah. Be intentional and thoughtful. That's great. What, overall, would you say is the best pose as an actor for headshots? People are like what do I do with my arms? I'm sure it varies, but in general, what's your advice on that?
Speaker 2:Just like a little bit. Hands in pockets are great. I feel like if you don't know what to do, just put your hands in your pockets.
Speaker 1:We start almost every session with standing hands in pockets. Okay, just because that is the most basic thing, that's going to look decent.
Speaker 2:Give me your shoulders back just a little bit.
Speaker 3:Just a little bit. I need that reminder.
Speaker 2:Sometimes a little one way or the other favoring can be nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, nice little turn side to side.
Speaker 1:One ear, only one ear, one ear, only that. One ear, one lonely ear.
Speaker 3:I'm always told I tend to like the ones where my mouth is open, like just a little bit, and it's like yo like mouth closed or open, smiling. I'm like okay, that's a weird thing.
Speaker 1:I was told it's not a weird thing, but Because I think the open mouth thing almost became like a trend and I think that some people's faces slash mouths just naturally do that and I think for a lot of people like it's not a comfortable thing.
Speaker 2:So I feel like we. That's once again. That's case by case. Then I think American Girl Teeth came into the conversation and I think that's what killed it.
Speaker 3:Oh, you know, remember that whole other AGT, the other one.
Speaker 2:Yep, exactly. It was like once. Everyone was like oh, that looks like American girl doll mouth.
Speaker 3:Then all of a sudden it was like okay, no more, no more part of that, no more of that. Speaking of American girl dolls, I want to know what your thoughts are on props. Holding props during a session I'm sure it differs depending on the market, as you said before, but do people ever bring?
Speaker 1:things. You know that's a great question. I'm not going to yuck any yums because I'm trying to think of if there's been a context where I thought it was totally right.
Speaker 2:We had somebody once bring in some action figures and it wasn't not right. It wasn't necessarily something that I think everybody across the board would be like. Yes, that's it, but I remember that their reps were very happy with the shots.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's one of those things where it If it's super specific to you, if that is something you have, but this also, then oh, now you got a whole can of worms that you're opening here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:Because the branding thing and also that session that we are now able to offer because of being in a larger space where we do it's like a six-look package with both headshots and portraits both headshots and portraits Portraits are a big part of the trend right now of like really well-rounded website. As far as headshots, it's a functional thing that goes onto a casting platform and they need to fit into that environment in a way that it's not jarring but at the same time it stands out Branding stuff. Somebody likes you. They want to go to your website and see what's up. That's where I think it is asking a lot of a person.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, website creation has gotten so good now and a lot of people are really skilled at doing it, that if all you have on your actor website is your resume and your headshots and like a couple YouTube links, it will start to diminish, like the presentation of the level of your career, which I once again don't think is fair necessarily, but so much of it is just a visual story, and so I think if you're just starting out, I don't think doing the branding stuff really makes a whole lot of sense until you have that point of view Cause we just had an awesome one with a client of this web designer that we were just talking about, where it was only branding that we did and she killed it. Like the color stories were amazing. She brought in a typewriter, she had all this. Really, really cool makeup.
Speaker 1:And we just like we're getting both kind of like stock images for her website, as well as photos of her with those things, and that shoot would have fallen completely flat without her props.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. So, yeah, and I guess you can hold things too off camera, if you know. If you have your grandma's necklace, that makes you feel centered and comfortable you're gonna be holding it in your pocket totally and like wardrobe too.
Speaker 2:We love like. Uh shot someone last week who loves magneto, I think that was the name the superhero yeah, big magneto fan, so at the end. But magneto, magneto, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I'm so sorry this is showing my lack of superhero knowledge yeah, um, but yeah but like his fourth look we were.
Speaker 2:I was like what do you feel like is missing from the three picks so far? Like what's the thing? And he's like, well, I don't like, I really just love, I love the superhero and like I love the shirt, and so that was like the fourth look we did, was that? So it's like you know you could bring in mind you that's not a prop, but, like you know, like you said, grandma's necklace, things like that that, like you know, are so true to you, or things you love so much, you could try to find a way to sort of bring that into your wardrobe. Like you know, if you love that superhero, maybe bring that shirt, because I think they actually look they ended up looking super fun and again, another way he'll stand out. Maybe, you know, some casting director will be like also, that's my favorite superhero. And then you know, a connection.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's sort of a talking point. Exactly Human connection. Right, right, that from my website, where it's like the you go to get on the website and it's a nice picture of me and then you scroll down and it's sort of like haunted mansion style. You know how the portraits get weird as they scroll. It's like then there's like an alligator eating me.
Speaker 1:I don't know that's okay, I'm loving this see, but that's the story, like we can make that happen yeah, it's like oh, he's weird, he's a muppet.
Speaker 3:And that's me the final one of this flash round. And then I just have one more question I'll let y'all go on with. Your day is this is just a statement, and we kind of covered it retouching photos, I guess. Just what's your stance there? What's your advice?
Speaker 2:Light in a tiny nutshell. Light.
Speaker 1:Light for touching.
Speaker 2:We like and have gotten a lot of feedback over the years that people appreciate the fact that we are not going in with like a heavy airbrush. Because also a lot of times now we were just at a party with a friend who's a casting director and we were like, oh, we haven't. You know, what are you seeing right now in the industry? Like, what are things that you wish you were seeing in headshots to sort of just you know, get some, get some new ideas. And the first thing she said was that she was working on a show casting people who were supposed to be playing addicts um, I think it was particularly like heroin addicts and so she was looking for an ensemble of about 10 different people to play these different day players. And that she had mentioned that so many people's headshots were so beautiful and gorgeous and airbrushy that it's kind of hard to tell if that person you know what their skin really looks like, or if they have the capacity to look as rugged as would be needed to play a character like that.
Speaker 1:So that's sort of where we come in with that being said, that doesn't mean if so, it's so complicated because there are some people who sell it immediately based off of you put them in the right outfit and they're just there, and so you. We would be inclined to capture that. But that's not to say that if your everyday is full makeup, eyeliner, whatever it might be that you then have to do a shot with no makeup just in case you get called in for something like this. That's not necessarily what we're advising. You spend a whole look of your headshot session doing. We do emphasize a makeup journey though, um, and that also kind of coincides with the retouching thing that, like a slightly more stripped down natural look, is a really important starting place to then make your way up. Um, and I feel like the retouching should only ever help to serve like we get rid of temporary things. That's always the rule.
Speaker 2:A two-week rule is something that I've heard of. Like, if it's not on your face, yeah. If that blemish just showed up this morning, that's gotta go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, book a headshot, get a blem Always.
Speaker 2:Always that Bring a friend to your session is what we say. It's like oh, just put a little friend along, Does?
Speaker 3:everyone cut themselves when they shave in the bathroom. I would say it's like probably 85 to 90 percent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's more than half at least.
Speaker 3:And they always come back and they're like I'm so sorry, I cut myself and you're like you should start recording that that's like not like filming, but like that's like a psychological study of when people are really nervous they're, but like that's like a psychological study of when people are really nervous they're more likely to.
Speaker 2:I guess it's not that interesting, but it's probably because it's super cut, real and we're just like are waiting by the door for people to walk in after they shave just to see if they cut themselves all together.
Speaker 3:Yes, sweeney Todd photography. Well, that's. That's also helpful Before we roll out to end sort of on an inspiring note for our listeners. So this whole thing has been very inspiring and empowering. I'd love to ask you both a got and a give. I'm still kind of working out the verbiage here, I don't even know if it makes sense, but the first thing is what's the best piece of advice you've got from someone in this industry? And then the second would be the best piece of advice you give to people looking to consistently work in this biz. So you can each take it one by one. However you want to answer, we're here.
Speaker 1:Good question yeah.
Speaker 2:Jake go first.
Speaker 3:Jake, you go first. Jake, you can also each take one. Yeah, whatever you want to do, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking. I'm thinking Whether or not this advice has been given to me in an industry-specific way and it's also not. This advice has been given to me in an industry specific way and it's also not really advice as much of a statement, and I feel like everyone has heard it at least at some point in their lives, but I think it's so important to remember, regardless of your career is there. You cannot possibly make everyone happy and it's also not your responsibility to do so. And I feel like for headshot stuff, that's been important in honing in on specificity of what do we have to bring to the table.
Speaker 1:But in regards to the acting thing, when we're talking about this very niche thing of someone is trying to cast an ensemble of drug-addicted people, it's okay if you don't have that in your portfolio. You cannot possibly stretch yourself so thin as to be able to catch every possible acting job that you could get. It's just not something that one person can do, and that's where the specificity comes from, like what comes naturally to you, what feels good for you, what do you like about yourself? What do you like about the work that you're trying to do? Um, and just coming at it from centering a little bit more of your happiness, I would say, um, I feel like that's, that's how, that, that's my get, and give.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got it and then you gave it.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I guess it's my turn that applies to applies to life too.
Speaker 3:Don't make everyone so happy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Jake, can you say that to me?
Speaker 3:one more time. It's right into my eyes this time. I know I'm looking at our loving artwork that says what would Dolly do, and Dolly makes everyone happy, so why can't I?
Speaker 1:Jake. I don't know what's going on in my brain.
Speaker 2:You can all just be Dolly. Okay, I guess it's my turn now. The thing, the first thing that came to mind and I'm trying to just like figure out the way of wording this when I was in high school and, like you know, auditioning for colleges. To our young listeners out there, that's obviously a very stressful time in your life, but I remember something that she would always say to me and, mind you, you can interpret this however you would like. Whatever she would always say to me and, mind you, you can interpret this however you would like, whatever spirituality resonates with you, but she would always tell me that no one can open a door that God closes, but no one can close a door that God opens, which I think is just a really beautiful metaphor for the opportunities that are right for you will be the ones that come your way, that are right for you will be the ones that come your way.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like this industry is totally wild and I'm sorry if you didn't know that yet. I don't want to spoil it for you, but it's wild out here and there are so many things happening all the time. But you know, with every no, as much as you can remind yourself, that the right thing for you is somewhere. You just haven't found it yet or you know those paths haven't crossed yet. I think as much as you can sort of like keep that spark alive is is what's going to help you to be happy in life. Um, in this industry because you know it can be really tough and hearing no's and stuff like that can get really grating, especially as you know time goes on. We haven't even we somehow managed to have this whole conversation without even talking about the pandemic or the strikes, but you know it's like which is probably the best.
Speaker 2:You're welcome everybody, yeah, just to like hit a little nod there. It's like you know that time was and has been, and will potentially be again, like really tricky to find. You know solace in the fact that you know things, there is something that is out there for you. So, yeah, as much as you can sort of hold on to that idea that you know it can happen for you is, I think, what will keep it.
Speaker 3:No, I love that advice I had when I interviewed Carol Burnett. She's going to put that here. Sorry to bring that up. I blacked out. She told a story that was a little similar, in that she somehow realized when she walked out of the audition and didn't get it it wasn't her time, and she celebrated that it was a different woman's time. She was like it's her time, it's not. It's not your time. Your time will come and if you're persistent enough and sort of hanging in here in this wild west like you're talking about, you know, eventually something will come your way.
Speaker 3:That'll be for you, and it's hard when there's really nothing right now, with everything going on in the world, but at the same time that gives a wonderful opportunity, maybe to try and figure out your point of view, like we're saying, which will be helpful with your headshots and everything else in your life, because then you can bring yourself to it. And now I'm turning into a Hallmark card, which I probably already was anyway, but I appreciate both of you. I think you're just magic. You're so talented. Everyone check out Suburban Photography if you're in the New York City area, and even if you're not, book a plane ticket. It's worth it, I will say.
Speaker 2:Come on up and I hope these tips helped you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for your time today you guys rock.
Speaker 2:Thank you Also. My God, what an amazing host Like seriously, I'm so excited to see what else you do with this podcast, because crushing it.
Speaker 1:I think it's great. It's great.
