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How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
Get cast today at castingnetworks.com.
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How to Get a TV/Film Agent (& Keep Them) with Talent Agent Michele Cavallero
Take 3 Talent Agency's Michele Cavallero shares her expertise on how actors can secure film and television representation. She joins How We Role with host Robert Peterpaul to discuss all the intricacies of signing with an agent and creating a healthy career together.
The episode covers:
• How to be ready to secure representation that works for you.
• The #1 thing she looks for when signing talent.
• Building and maintaining a healthy agent-actor relationship.
Submit your questions for future episodes, and if you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with a friend and leave us a review!
This is - How We Role. Get cast today at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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So much in this business you can't control the things that you can control. Focus on the other things that are really out of your hands. Just try to let them be.
Speaker 2:When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to how we Roll, a podcast for actors by Casting Networks. Hello, fellow actors, it's your friend, robert Peterpaul, back on the mic to answer what I believe has been one of the biggest questions we've gotten thus far at how we Roll how do I get an agent, specifically in the television and film space, though this chat will span mediums To crack the code with me, I didn't look too far. I tapped in my agent, the magnificent Michelle Cavallaro.
Speaker 2:Michelle Cavallaro is the Senior Theatrical Agent at Take 3 Talent Agency. A graduate of Emerson College, michelle's journey in the entertainment realm began on stage as a musical theater performer and dance instructor. Prior to Take 3, michelle garnered experience at About Artists Agency, mccorkle Casting and CESD in New York, dance Choreography Agency, mcdonald-selsnick Associates in Los Angeles and Boston Casting. Her clients can now be seen on screen in shows like Dexter, law Order, svu, exokitty, fbi, most Wanted High Potential, ncis, blue Bloods, sex Lives of College Girls, winston and Long Bright River, just to name a few. Her roster also works on Broadway, with shows like the Outsiders, buena Vista Social Club, gypsy Boop, the Great Gatsby and Juliet and Wicked topping the list.
Speaker 2:We are in for a treat, friends. Michelle is a rare gem of a human who has experience on stage, in casting offices and now as an agent. She's like a triple threat of knowledge. She also leads with kindness and I loved mining her brilliant brain for nuggets of wisdom just for you. Speaking of, please share your burning industry questions with us as we continue to follow the creative path. Also, if you enjoy this episode, it would be so kind of you to share it with a friend and maybe leave a nice review.
Speaker 2:I don't know, no pressure Now. Here's how we roll with getting an agent Featuring Take 3 talents, michelle Cavallaro, and I do hope, if you really want one, that you get an agent after listening. Today, as you know, I hope we're going to discuss how to get a TV film agent specifically, though of course, I think a lot of that will apply to getting an agent in general, as I know, you kind of run the gamut there, so let's start to kind of mind your brain for these insights. First, I do want listeners to know that you started out as a performer yourself. I'm wondering if you feel like that kind of gives you a good perspective as you're now working with actors, because I feel like you kind of are so friendly and down to earth and you've walked the walk so you get what we're all trying to do.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, so absolutely correct. I was a performer my whole life growing up. I also love musical theater, so I was a musical theater major at college. So being an agent and having that performer background is so helpful because I feel that emotional component that the actors are feeling as they're going through this whole process and the industry. It's so up and down and I absolutely have been there and completely understand how the emotions will flux during it all and so absolutely I'm so grateful for my time as a performer because I think it just adds so much to me now as an agent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've lived so many lives I loved learning about you, know how you lived in California and you were repped, but also work in an agency. I guess once you kind of made that transition, although it sounds like it was a little slower what did you learn about the role of an agent that surprised you? Just to kind of set some context today, you know what would you say the role of an agent is that maybe us actors don't quite understand.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure. So there's so much behind the scenes that actors and agents, clients they just don't, they just don't see really a lot that goes on. There's so much pushing that agents do behind the scene to get their talent seen, even if there's not auditions coming in or self-tape requests coming in for the talent. There's so many pushes, so many conversations with casting that happened that talent doesn't even know is happening.
Speaker 1:So the behind the scenes, everything just seeing all of that in the inner workings. When I was a performer and when I was repped, I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes of it all. So I just feel like there's so much happening that talent just doesn't see on their end.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you mentioned self-tape requests. I feel like that's a new sort of phrase that's come in over the years. It transitioned to self-tapes which we didn't know if it was going to stick, and surprise, it stuck. And now we see self-tape request. Does that usually mean the casting director reached out about the talent, or is that like you submitted them and then they reached out, sort of what is that term? I know this is getting off topic here. No, no, it's a great question.
Speaker 1:I'm happy to clarify so it can mean a couple different things. So a lot of the time it's we're submitting on breakdowns or casting directors are sending us breakdowns asking us for our top folks that fit the specs. We then are submitting their actors access profiles, if they have a website, if they have footage, any sort of real material, anything like that. Once casting reviews the material, they then come back to us and will request who they want to see submit a self tape they then come back to us and will request who they want to see submit a self-tape.
Speaker 1:So, truly, it is a lot of the agent submitting the talent first, but agents can submit truly one person like 20 times a day, and a self-tape request may not even come in for that person, and there could be so many factors that could be the reason why it doesn't happen, but typically, when a request comes in, the agent has submitted talent.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of times, though, that casting is already familiar with talent and it could be from past auditions, from past projects, from classes, and then casting will reach out directly requesting a talent to submit.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Thank you for clarifying that yeah, so it's really just a mix, truly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're going to get into even more of that nitty gritty with you. But looking at actors starting out, you know what's the biggest misconception you would say that actors have about agents. It's such a big ticket bucket list item.
Speaker 1:We're like.
Speaker 2:I need an agent right away.
Speaker 1:Okay, so everyone's different, of course, but I feel like you know it truly is a partnership the actor and the agent. It is a partnership going towards the same goal really of securing that actor work. So I feel like you know there could be some talent that, once they get an agent, like may think okay, I'm just going to sit back now and let my agent just send me stuff, but there's so much work that goes in on the actor side too in this just like any, like any relationship partnership.
Speaker 1:It truly is a team, so an agent. We expect our talent to keep up with the training. Make sure they have all the updated materials, current headshots, their resumes updated, their reel is updated, that they're also taking classes with working casting directors, because we want casting directors to see the talent. So we want them to be in those classes, with those casting directors that are currently casting projects, Some things that you know. Maybe actors don't realize it truly is a partnership and a teamwork. It really is just two of us working together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's an excellent way to put it and I will say you define that. I've been so fortunate to work with you and I'm saying this here because everybody listening when you start to look at an agent, I think that's exactly what you want. You want a knowledgeable, talented person that's going to give you that advice but also not pressure you, and I've never felt pressured by you when we've had calls of what to decide. You sort of are there for someone either way and I think that's really special. So you do want it to feel like that partnership and I hope that's changing a bit in the industry, because I do feel like it used to be very much. The actors had to bow down to the agent because you know you guys are doing so much for us. But I like that even ground. You know people first.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, and it's like you know. You shouldn't be afraid to reach out to your agent truly with questions, with concerns. I also love open communication, so I always tell my talent if there's a show, a role, a casting director, a choreographer that you really want to work with, shoot me an email, Because I'll just keep it on my radar and keep an extra eye out on it, Because we want to make sure we're submitting and pushing talent for projects they're excited about. Yeah, and want to make sure we're submitting and pushing talent for projects they're excited about.
Speaker 1:Yeah and want to work so that open communication really is everything.
Speaker 2:That's so special. Well, I got a list here, Michelle. Hold on everybody. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, okay, Up to shows. Yeah, I do Email it over. I have a list of questions for you?
Speaker 1:Yes, of course.
Speaker 2:I think when we're looking at the, when you're meeting with actors, what signs tell you that an actor is truly ready to sign? Because you can meet with someone and love them, but maybe they're not ready for that next step?
Speaker 1:Sure, sure, okay. So there's a couple things. So I would say, when I meet with an actor, the first thing that I really look for is are they kind and is it someone I would like to work with? Our job here on this end it's not a 9-to-5 job. It truly is 24 seven. We're working on so many different time zones, also with casting directors, so we want to work with someone who we like to work with and we feel like our personalities jive there definitely could be people who you know.
Speaker 1:Maybe your personalities just don't mix and you know it might just be not the best fit. So personality first is what I want to work with this actor. Do I feel like I can advocate for them to the best of my ability? Then we'll look at training background. Are they trained? Are they continuing classes? Do we feel like they are excited, motivated, want it? We can't want it more than the actor wants it. So it's like just making sure that they're excited, that they also have availability. We completely understand. You know survival, jobs and everyone's doing. You know teaching and you know everything else to make money while auditioning. We just want to make sure there's flexibility and also just that open communication and that we know what's going on. If there's like book updates that someone's not available, we just want to make sure that communication is constant. Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you all look for people that you sort of jive with first. I think that's a great reminder. Overall in the industry it's almost like you take all these classes, you learn a lot of the business end, but at the end of the day, even when you go in for an audition, it's sort of just people meeting people and you just you want to be around good people. You know what I mean. So I think that's so special that you think that way. I guess, if you feel like maybe you even like the actor, but they're not necessarily ready, what do you suggest they do to get ready?
Speaker 1:Sure, we'll always suggest classes just to really get in the room, gaining more confidence, gaining just some more skills, just depending on what we feel like may be lacking or why we feel they're not ready to move forward. We'll always direct to classes but also materials, making sure that they have updated headshots. Headshots really are the calling card, especially in this day and age of self-taping. Casting is seeing talent everywhere, so they're getting inundated with submissions, and so making sure that an updated headshot that catches casting's eye really is key too.
Speaker 1:So, really classes and updated material.
Speaker 2:What are you seeing as an agent? I'm curious in regards to headshots with the trend, because I feel like headshot trends have changed. You know they were black and white at one point, then there was like the white border with the name and now they're sort of in this, like moody bluish filter, almost.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, when I had, so when I was performing yes, it was like black and white headshots. I was, like I went to like a New York photographer. I lived in Connecticut. I was, yeah, so I know we rarely see black and white, but that always does take me back, though, to my days it's very Sunset Boulevard.
Speaker 2:Maybe it'll come back one day. You know it always comes back it always comes back Totally.
Speaker 1:We'll see those headshots again. So I mean, with headshots, we really we look for. I mean it's so subjective. That's the thing too. You know something that may catch our eye, someone else may just not love. We really like direct photos. We don't really love, you know, the tilting, the side profile, the looking over the shoulder, not too like handsy hands on the face. We typically like like the hands down, more really of a standard headshot. Look Then with photographers they all have their own style headshot. Look Then with photographers, they all have their own style. So it could be lighting differences or we'll always meet with our talent and talk about wardrobe as well.
Speaker 1:Wardrobe is so important because, we want to make sure, if they're investing in headshots, that they'll be headshots we'll be able to use. So, we'll always run through wardrobe options, different looks, depending on how many looks they have in their session as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a great episode on headshots here and one of the things those photographers suggest doing is actually going to the store, buying fresh clothes based off of what looks you want and keeping the tags on and then maybe returning it after if you're on a budget, because new clothes look so much better on camera they're not faded. So I think that's a great thing that you just brought up. I'm assuming you would recommend having friends and other people look at the headshots, because I know every time I send my headshots to my agent or whoever, the ones people pick are not the ones I would pick.
Speaker 1:I know yes, so, oh my gosh, such a good point. So, yes, because we're not really looking for like the prettiest photo or the best looking photo. We're looking for like a raw photo, sometimes someone looking tired or just real. So, sending your, we always ask for the whole gallery too. We never love when talent narrows it down before we appreciate it, because they're trying to avoid sending like 500 photos to us.
Speaker 1:But we actually like seeing the whole gallery, because we want to just see all of the options and then we narrow it down. But, yes, sending it to folks is great, I would say. When it comes to an actor, though, really sending it to your agent because they're the ones that are going to be submitting you is like the most important vessel to go through, because also, sending it to too many folks gets a lot of opinions then and a lot of cooks in the kitchen there.
Speaker 1:Or folks that you know are seeing you just on like an everyday thing, but may not be submitting you for projects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're Italian, we're used to cooks in the kitchen, but maybe not with the head chefs.
Speaker 1:I'm 100% Italian, so many cooks 100% Okay.
Speaker 2:Where's your family from? I don't think I knew this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're from northern Italy. I need to go back to Italy. I've only gone once. Oh really yes.
Speaker 2:It's magical. You got to get back there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, it was gorgeous when I went. I need to go back there Everybody.
Speaker 2:Close your eyes, be on the Amalfi Coast with us. That's where we are, that's what we're getting at. So, aside from headshots, I'm guessing you want to see a resume and maybe a cover letter in an initial submission for a meeting. You know what else are you looking for in that package? What's like your ideal way for an actor to submit to you for representation?
Speaker 1:Sure. So yes, absolutely Headshot, absolutely Resume Cover letter I could go either way with, to be honest, cover letter, giving us like a glimpse of, like, maybe your most recent credits or what you feel your biggest credits are. Anything with well-known names directors, actors, theaters, anything like that just to catch our eye is great. Email tends to be the best option these days. When I was acting like when I first started off, we would send it in the mail like in an eight by 10 envelope.
Speaker 1:We have an office but there's so many folks who don't have offices so emails tend to be best to send it through. So a headshot resume keeping the body of the email where, like your cover letter, would be short, just short, a couple sentences, anything that you feel like might grab our attention or eye, but nothing too long, because we're looking through emails all day. So anything too long you always run into the risk of just agents not reading the whole email because there's just a lot happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So headshot resume, if you have a real, if you have a website link, all of that just so we can see materials.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Are you still seeing a lot of website links? Because I feel like that's sort of people still have them, but I don't know if it's as necessary with social media and everything. So what do you recommend there?
Speaker 1:Sure so there's a lot of discourse online with actors.
Speaker 2:I get a lot of questions about this, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it really could go either way. I like websites still. I find them very helpful. Just no, you know it really could go either way. I like websites still. I find them very helpful, just with all the different links. There's, like you know, usually the About Me dropdown and the headshots and the resume, contacts, reels, footage. All of that I still like that. I mean, you know, actors Access Profile. We also use ActivePitch as well, so we have other means to submitting folks. But also having the option of sending a link to a website to casting directors really is helpful too. So nothing that anyone has to like rush and make a website, but it doesn't hurt to have a website with really strong materials on it.
Speaker 2:Okay, and same with social media.
Speaker 1:I mean, so much is happening over social media these days. We will never require talent to set up an instagram or anything like that, but if they have social media, you know, of course, putting stuff on there of how you want to be represented and how you just want the world to see you, because casting directors really are looking at it too, and we always suggest too, if talent is talking about setting up an account, something like that, if they want to do a professional account and then a personal account and have the personal one be private, that's also another option too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to ask you about social media. That's a great way to think of it, because I know I mean, the thing about this industry is it's all so subjective and some people feel one way about it, some people feel the other way, and to me it's almost like I use it as sort of a digital business card, but I try and sprinkle in some personal things.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, because they want to see your personality. They want to see what do you like to do when you're not acting, you know, do you like to, you know, boat or hike or ride horses, anything like that? Yeah, it's great to sprinkle it into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. That sounded like an Old Spice commercial boating riding horses. I can picture that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course we're ready.
Speaker 2:So I'm guessing referrals kind of pop through for you when you get a referral from someone, is that always sort of? Or you meet someone in a class, is that sort of the best way to start versus a cold submission?
Speaker 1:Yes, so a cold submission, yes. So we'll get a lot of referrals. We'll get a lot of cold submissions Through the Take Three website. We have like a submission portal that we're always checking as well, so we'll get a lot of inquiries through that method too. But I do love referrals Also. Workshops, showcases we have casting directors that will refer folks to us as well. But referrals we do love just because we know who's referring them and we can always reach out to them with questions as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great point and I guess to that point too, do you love to see almost a list you sort of mentioned it of casting directors that the talent knows and that they've worked with. Is that helpful for us to log and send over in the submission?
Speaker 1:So helpful and I'm always so amazed when actors have these like spreadsheets and they're on top of like what audition they went to when they went on it. It is amazing to me, so organized. So, yes, we find that super helpful because then when there's a specific casting director casting a project and we're like, oh, this talent has worked with this casting director on this project, we can always push them and also just flag that oh, you may remember them from this project. So it's always helpful because we love connecting the dots with that, because relationships and connections in the industry are so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I always start the year with a beautiful spreadsheet and then it kind of falls off the wagon. But I do, I'm pretty old school, so I have a planner that I will write down every week the I'm pretty old school so I have a planner that I will write down every week the audition that I went on and I just like doing that.
Speaker 1:I love that. No, I love hard copies of things to hold.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that said, don't send her a hard copy of your headshot and resume maybe, because I don't want you to get inundated.
Speaker 1:You know what we do still get hard copies, but a lot of it is over email these days, which just it's cheaper for talent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I guess maybe you would stand out if you sent a hard copy Totally. If it works, it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it brings me back to my days too, because I remember doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember it too, getting the vanilla envelopes. It was so expensive. Sometimes you would just walk it to the desk, the front desk, drop it off.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. Yes, because the stamps I remember my mom would bring me to the post office. We had to get it weighed of. How much does it cost to mail it? Yeah, no-transcript, such a good question. No, it definitely fluctuates depending on our needs. Really, our roster always changes. It always ebbs and flows. We have folks who are shooting series, so they're not really available. Others that are on Broadway, so their availability is limited. So things are always really in flux and availability shifts in and out. So we really do look for folks who we feel like could be a great addition to the roster. We also want to avoid internal conflicts.
Speaker 1:So if we have a lot of folks that would be going out for the same role. We want to avoid that because we don't want them to bump each other out coming from the same agency. So we also try to stay away from if we have too much of a certain type or a certain look, anything like that. We try to just limit that as well, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:But I guess if you find someone you really like, they could always follow up with you, right? Because then down the line maybe you'll have that spot for them. You never know.
Speaker 1:And of course there's always exceptions, If we feel like you know, oh, I really loved this person, I really jived with them. Could this work? We'll always try to see, but our roster needs because we want to be able to advocate for talent most effectively. So we need to see, you know, are we too heavy in one part of the roster or not? But yes, and then talent can always follow up. If we meet, we could, and if I for some reason can't take them at that time, I'll always say if you're still looking for a rep in six months, please feel free and circle back.
Speaker 2:That's so kind.
Speaker 1:I love that Of course, because again the rosters always change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. What else always changes is the amount of cat hair floating around me, because I just moved and there's cat hair everywhere.
Speaker 1:I don't even see it.
Speaker 2:Oh well, now I pointed it out for everybody, everybody, just to give everybody a visual. We're in Italy, it's raining, cat hair and it's beautiful, gorgeous. I've heard so many thoughts on this, so please help me clarify it, if you can.
Speaker 1:Is there an optimal time of year for people to reach out? Great question, optimal time of year? Okay. So when it gets busy, busy seasons tend to be a good time to reach out, so like March, april, but really any time we'll be looking, we'll be looking. But I mean, you know, when there was SAG strikes, that was, of course, not an ideal time to reach out because work was so limited. So definitely see how the industry is going in terms of what is happening when you're reaching out to folks. But really I mean any month just getting yourself out there could be beneficial. And even on the slower months there may be some folks who aren't sending to agents, so you could stand out in those months too.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. It's so wild because you know there used to be a really strict pilot season and there were sort of regimented times where everything was happening. And now too, that's a great point. It's so wild because you know there used to be a really strict pilot season and there was sort of regimented times where everything was happening. And now with self-tapes, it's all the time. So I think a lot of actors are confused. They're like I don't want to reach out and get lost in the shuffle when they're already hardcore promoting people during a pilot season. So that's very helpful to hear.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Let's say, an actor does reach out and they land a meeting with you. What's kind of the best way for them to prepare for it and maybe not psych themselves out?
Speaker 1:Sure, okay. Well, I don't want them to ever be nervous about meeting with me. It truly is really a conversation. How to prepare? I mean questions I would just ask. I always want to know about their background, what led them to where they are now and also their goals. What would be ideal you? What led them to where they are now and also their goals? What would be ideal you know? What are they aiming for? Certain types of mediums that they're looking to get involved in? Just really a conversation and just talking one-on-one is what we would do during the meeting. Most likely I would have seen, of course, the headshot, the resume, reels, footage. If I didn't, and if I'm taking the meeting before I saw footage or reels, I would then ask to send me all material footage, reels, anything like that, but most of the time I would have viewed everything before setting up the meeting.
Speaker 2:You're prepared, and they should be prepared in the sense of well, I guess this doesn't happen as much anymore. Then right, like doing a cold read in a meeting or having them do a monologue or something.
Speaker 1:Right, right, no, I'm rarely, rarely, I typically don't ask that or anything. But I also want them to be prepared to ask me questions, because, as much as it is like me meeting them, it's them meeting me too. So I want them to ask me questions to make sure that I would be the right rep for them too. Yeah, so definitely, it works both ways.
Speaker 2:Is there a question to maybe avoid that you get a lot that you don't love hearing? I mean, you're so kind that I'm sure you just will answer anything.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, we'll have clients that'll ask just about my background or some exciting things that I worked on or projects that we have talent working on. Nothing really has been asked. I could recall that I was like, oh you know, no, I just want them to feel comfortable and if it is something that depending on my answer would affect, if they, you know, feel that I'd be the best rep for them, I want them to ask. And if I don't feel comfortable answering, I'll always just let them know. I don't feel comfortable, anything like that yeah.
Speaker 2:In that case, what's your social security number?
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I'll just write it right here oh, perfect, okay, Just throw it out there After the meeting. You touched on this a bit, but what kind of follow-ups do you like to see? I know you said maybe reach out in six months, but is there something you like to see, like a new show they're promoting or a reel they have?
Speaker 1:So if it is someone who I didn't automatically then sign, if we're not moving forward, and if I do say reach back out to me in six months or so, if you're still looking for a rep reaching out, if there's something happening, if it's a new show that you booked, if it's something that you know, a new update of sorts, if it's you were in California but now you're moving to New York or vice versa, anything that you feel like you know is new, that may spark an interest or be like you know what. Maybe because I booked this, now they might need me on their roster to fill this kind of slot.
Speaker 1:So yeah, any sort of update, like that is fine.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's great to know. So unfortunately, I think there's a lot of scams out there. What's your advice as far as how an actor can know if an agency is legit when they're submitting? You know, I guess if they see a fee structure like, what are the red flags, you would say Absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Of course you never want to pay anything up front. Agents will only get commission off of projects that you book. So anyone that requires you know a fee up front about anything, definitely look into. And also ask friends, ask people that you've worked with before for agent recommendations, because truly referrals from folks that you're taking anything like that and just making sure that you've done as much research as possible and then meeting with the agents and seeing who do I really fit with? Did I like what they said? Do I feel like they can advocate for me? Do we feel like we're on the same page? Anything like that I would look into.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's really good to know. So let's say, we're signing with you. An actor out there listening is signing with an agent Yay, do you have advice as far as reviewing contracts, you know, and sort of like the initial agreements?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we'll, of course, send it right to Talent and then they'll take a look at it If they would like to set up a meeting. I could walk them through line to line on that as well. We always make sure they're comfortable with the contracts prior. We always say if you'd like to have a lawyer, look at it, please do. We want you to be comfortable with everything because truly, I mean, you know they are exclusive contracts or, depending on the agency you're with, it could be a freelance contract. But you want to make sure you understand all of the guidelines as well with that so definitely reviewing.
Speaker 1:Having someone else take a look too could be helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very helpful. You know, as far as first signing, I feel like personally, from what I've experienced and what I've heard from other friends, there can sort of be almost a little bit of a rush of getting auditions, because maybe not nowadays I do feel like just getting an audition now is a win in this current climate. But as far as in normal times, what even is that? You would get a bunch of auditions so the agent could kind of get to know you feel what you're sort of is biting for you, and then do you feel like it maybe even takes a year or two just to kind of get to know each other, because I think a lot of actors see maybe a dip and then feel like they're not hearing from their agent and that it does take that time to really sort of stick around and just build a relationship.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. Because it'll take a minute for us to really kind of get in the jive, see exactly what talent's looking for and also seeing where casting bites too. Are they calling talent in for this, but also are their headshots attracting casting too? So that's always something to look at. If, if auditions tend to be a little slower, but if we've been submitting you like crazy, pushing you, we'll always say let's revisit the headshots. We'll say send us the gallery again. We won't automatically be like you need to take more headshots, we'll look at the gallery again to. We won't automatically be like you need to take more headshots. We'll look at the gallery again to see. You know, maybe we'll switch something up on your profiles because maybe it'll just be a little refresh and it'll spark things up.
Speaker 1:But with the first year, the talent side, I mean we never expect them to book. Really, it is us getting them out there, it's planting seeds, it's them taking classes, getting to know casting directors too. So really, really it does take a minute to get things kind of rolling. But that also leads me back to saying there's so much behind the scenes that happens. So when you sign with an agent, if you're not getting tons of auditions right off the bat. There's so much behind the scenes that goes on that just talent's not aware of too. That's happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I guess what do you like to hear from talent then during that time you know, I know you're very open what kind of do you think makes a strong actor-agent relationship?
Speaker 1:Sure it is. It's that open communication really it is. I always like to when you know they're saying I love this director, I love a choreographer, I love this type of genre, anything like that. It just helps me truly get to know them even more. And I also want to hear if they're not going to be around because they're booked out for a wedding or a silent retreat, and also the capacity that they're booked out in. If it's just I have travel plans but I'm bringing myself tape equipment I could still tape, I just can't attend anything in person. We like to know that. If it's I'm on a silent retreat and will not receive any emails, it's a hard book out. We want to know that because we want to just avoid pushing talent to casting for something then that they're not available before and us not knowing.
Speaker 2:Okay, I need to go on a silent retreat, Probably preferably in Italy.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly no. Okay, I need to go on a silent retreat, probably preferably in Italy.
Speaker 2:Exactly exactly no, I know right, yeah, yeah, I love that, I know. I think that's great to hear because I know some actors like we can be sensitive creatures and we probably feel like we're bothering you. Never, I guess, you cannot over communicate enough if you're being kind about it and helpful.
Speaker 1:Of course, and if something's not time sensitive, if I'm away from my desk, anything like that I'll always pin the email and circle back when I have then time to give a lengthy response. But, we're always checking our emails, so if there is something that talent wants to say, I always suggest for them to email me. And they also have my cell phone number, so if anything urgent they could text me, they could call me. All the relationships are different.
Speaker 2:Call me, beat me if you want to reach me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, as shy as possible. So we mentioned sort of like what you like to see from actors during that time. In regards to updating their materials. What would you just say is a good rule of thumb for when they should reassess their headshots, you know, update their resume. Is it like a yearly thing, a six month thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean every couple of months. We always say you know, take a look at your headshots, take a look at your resume, just to make sure everything is up to date. If you got a certain haircut or changed the color of your hair, any sort of like major differences we want to definitely address with updated headshots because we also want to avoid submitting a headshot to casting and have casting ask them to submit a self-tape or ask them to come in person for something and then they walk in or submit a tape and look nothing like the headshot. So any drastic changes we always want to address with updated headshots. But in terms of resumes, if there is something that you just worked on, get it on that resume, add it to your Actors Access profile.
Speaker 1:Constantly looking at those materials, making sure that they are current, really is key For headshots. In terms of getting new ones, if nothing like drastically has changed, I mean every year and a half, two years anything that you feel like maybe you just need like to freshen it up a bit, or a new type of headshot, absolutely. And it also doesn't have to be a headshot with a lot of looks, a new, updated one. It could be something with limited looks. If you feel like there's a certain type of shot that maybe we don't have yet, just going in for a quick shoot.
Speaker 2:As far as supplemental shots, are you seeing a trend of people putting up really nice photos that aren't as professional, like a full body photo that maybe they took on a cell phone? Are you seeing those work at all, or is it? Does it have to be a professionally shot photo? So?
Speaker 1:we typically gear for those professionally shot photos. There'll be occasional times when we need, like, the full body in, you know, the commercial department or print department. You'll. You'll use those full bodies a bit more than our department with the selfies, but having those sending those to us, we definitely will ask for those, sometimes just depending on the nature of the submission. But we really do go with the professional photos.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, starting out with an agent, what is like a good rule of thumb for a starter pack for sort of like a TV film headshot? Are there like three recommend just every actor has right off the bat?
Speaker 1:Sure. So it's definitely depends on your age and your type. You know there's so many procedurals out there, like the lawyers, the detectives so I always love like that corporate shot a blazer, a collared shirt, something that looks like you're ready to be in any sort of those office settings. Then also a bit more of like an edgier shot, something that just has a bit more of like a raw look to it. Also could be helpful something more neutral that we could submit for anything. It could be just like a black, plain shirt. It could be something very neutral that could work for several different things is always great to have on hand. Then it could be if you're gearing to play younger, something just looking younger, if you can play eight, if you could play a younger than 18 role, you know, something that has a bit more of that energy too. But really it's. We always work with our clients on this too, with how many headshot options that they'll get in their session, and then we'll say you know what, let's do these three and see where we are then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I loved hearing you say too, you don't necessarily have to go and book another headshot session. You can also go back into that gallery of five or 600 photos and maybe try and tweak it and see if one of those would actually work better instead.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, because when we're sending like the actor's profile, it's casting seeing like those same headshots. So even if it's a great headshot, it might just be getting stale too, because the eyes are just keep seeing it. So, Just revamping it with putting just another one from that same shoot up could absolutely work.
Speaker 2:That's great to hear. I would love to know. We had a few listener questions, oh OK, A lot of the Casting Network's users. Actually, most of their questions were just how do I get an agent, and so we're kind of covering that in a larger scope here. I thought to distill that maybe we could hear from you. What is, I guess, your dream client, if you have one? I know that's like a big sky question.
Speaker 1:Yes, a dream client. Really, I feel like I've said this a couple of times it really is communication. Truly, it is Just keeping that communication open us knowing again if you're not available, anything like that. And also talent who is also putting the work in attending those classes, getting their names out there, trying to get involved in projects? That motivation is very inspiring and, as I mentioned, it is a team and partnership, so putting in the work on both sides really is a dream client there too.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's beautiful. I do think a lot of actors. Sometimes it's like you sign with an agent and you just feel like a sigh of relief because it is that extra support and that huge team member but it is that team like you're saying. So you can't really just sit back and relax because you got to sort of like both be moving forward together. Another question we got isn't necessarily in regards to how to get an agent, it's kind of the opposite, but I do feel like it's helpful. If you have any insight here, which I'm sure you do, I should say this is from Casting Network's user at Amina Anina. I like that rhyme. Amina Anina, oh, okay. Yeah, amina Anina, is it ever bad to part ways with an agent who no longer shares your vision? What's the best way to handle that?
Speaker 1:Well, that absolutely makes sense. So, depending on your relationship with the agent, having a meeting with them, a phone call, a Zoom and just really expressing how you're feeling. Also, if it is something that you feel like may work, but maybe the game plan has to change or we have to think of a new strategy a conversation and a meeting just to talk about how you're feeling absolutely and also seeing if you're under contract, seeing the termination clause of the contract and how you would be able to be released from the contract.
Speaker 2:This is like a masterclass in communication. I feel like communication is your bag and it's just so helpful. It's just communicating like people who would have thought Okay, Michelle, now it's time for a quick surprise game if you're down.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh yes.
Speaker 2:Yay, okay, I'll insert some cheesy music here. Okay, this is called casting keywords, and so, basically, I'm going to throw a word or a phrase at you, something that has to do with actors, a word that you're familiar with. You'll hear it all the time, and then you just give us the first piece of advice that pops into your head.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Don't overthink it. Just shout it out and then we'll keep it pretty quick, but some of these might spawn, you know, a larger conversation. Okay, are you ready? I'm ready. Woo, woo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo. I don't even know what that means. I'm going to start with networking.
Speaker 1:The first thing I thought of was casting networks, I think because of the word networks.
Speaker 2:That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Okay, wait, okay. So I'm going to continue right now, then I can talk more about it yeah. Networking so important in the industry. Absolutely Get out there. It's taking classes with those casting directors, talking to folks that you're working with also in the business.
Speaker 2:I love that. Okay, what about slating?
Speaker 1:Sure, so many different ways to slate. Please just follow directions on the self-tape request. Sometimes casting wants a full body slate. Sometimes they just want, you know, the three-quarter slate or just a half slate, anything like that. Make sure you're slating the actual required information name, location, if there's height, if it's union status, anything like that. Just always double check that you're submitting that correctly and also if it's to be in the beginning of your submission or if it's to be slated at the end.
Speaker 2:Oh, because that could disrupt the tone, which is my next word, tone as far as auditions.
Speaker 1:Showcase your personality in the slate. I would say Tones for auditions focus serious and be rehearsed and be prepared. Getting an audition, it's truly already a win. And you never know, even if you don't get the role or the project, those casting directors are most likely going to cast other projects down the line. So you want to make sure that you have great exposure regardless.
Speaker 2:It must be so cool for you to see that happen in regards to someone not getting a part, and then, maybe two years later, they hear from the casting person that remembered them. Does that still?
Speaker 1:happen a lot Because we always hope that that happens when casting is submitting things or just auditioning for anything, that casting just remembers them for projects down the line. So it is so rewarding when that happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what a just lovely thing to be remembered in life. I just think that's to be thought of. It's just nice Love Co-star auditions, because they can be a little tricky, because you just have one line.
Speaker 1:Sometimes Co-star auditions Very tricky. Great though to get those credits, to get that on-set experience. You know, do a couple takes of these. Sometimes they'll have specific instructions. If they only want one take, then okay, do one take. But really if it's just one line or one word, a couple takes. Giving them some options super helpful, since with the self-tape request you're not in a room so there's not like that direct feedback of someone asking you to immediately re-tape. So something with any sort of short dialogue or material. I would say give a couple takes. So casting just has options.
Speaker 2:Will you tell actors if you like a certain take better and then just them to edit that out? Will you tell them to maybe do a new take if you see one that's pretty close? Do you do that as an agent?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Now with self tapes, we're part of that process so we're able to get feedback. We just always say to talent if you are hoping for feedback or wanting feedback, just send it to us with some buffer room before the deadline, Because we just want to avoid asking casting for an extension.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So just giving us some time to review it, to give feedback, just in case we want you to retake. We want there to be enough time before the deadline.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also love that you give positive feedback, which is just so beautiful and fun. I love watching it.
Speaker 1:Truly, I love watching the tapes. It's so great because before the pandemic it was rare when you would get a self-tape request. So now that they're happening we're so much more involved too.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, while we're here, I guess self-tapes, that's the next phrase. What's your advice on that in general for actors?
Speaker 1:Have a great setup If you are an actor submitting those self-tapes have the backdrop, have proper lighting, just have the tripod. Making sure that your setup is secure, your internet connection secure and also just your framing is great. That's going to be so helpful having that professional look. Also, there's tons of classes, too that are being offered now that are just assisting with that self-tape and offering guidance. So even taking a couple of those just to make sure you have those basics. So at least when you're submitting you have that professional approach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not to plug it here, but we did a great episode with Erica Hart all about self-tapes. That's a free resource and she's just fantastic. Erica's great and you're such a great advice, so check that out everybody. Okay, passing on auditions, so check that out everybody.
Speaker 1:Okay, passing on auditions. Sure, Absolutely fine. On our end. We always say to talent if the role doesn't resonate with you, if the project doesn't resonate with you, if the material does not resonate with you, anything like that, If you're not available for the dates, the shoot location, anything like that, we always want to know. We want to avoid talent submitting for something and then an offer coming in after they submit, us having to decline because they're not interested, so we would absolutely rather decline from the get-go.
Speaker 1:It's rarely that we'll ever. The only time we'll really go back to talent being like are you sure you want to pass? Is if there's a great creative team attached. If there's some sort of like insider information that we could share, that may sway them, but ultimately it's their decision. So we completely support whichever way they go with the auditions. We want to just be able to present them with opportunities and then, however they want to go with it, absolutely fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think a lot of casting is sort of sometimes even waiting for that person to change their mind. You know they're going to cast the exact opposite, and so something I've learned from you over the years is to just you might as well submit, because you're at least meeting that casting person in the team.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. You're meeting the casting person in the team. If it's something like you know, you just are opposed to, the project will definitely decline because you wouldn't do it in the long run of it. But, getting just those seeds planted of casting. Seeing you really is great.
Speaker 2:Well, speaking of casting, let's say casting director feedback.
Speaker 1:Yes, sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. You know, we ask and sometimes they may provide it, other times they are unable to. So really, that's just. That's really case by case. We know that actors really love that casting director feedback, of course, because so much in this business we don't get closure with.
Speaker 1:And we spend so much time on the audition and putting so much out there, and then there's sometimes that we just never hear. So we love the feedback, but it's a bit case to case if we receive it. But if we receive it we always share it with talent.
Speaker 2:Okay, in that same regard, I've actually been really curious about this over the years. Is it weird for an actor to ask which headshot you submitted that got them the audition?
Speaker 1:that because they want to know, okay, was it a bit more of this style or that style? Because they kind of want to emulate that same look for their self-tape request or the in-person audition. So absolutely fine if they ask because we'd like to have that variety of headshots on their profile, because we customize the headshots each time we submit talent for something, so we'll change the default headshot depending on the role. So talent's not sure. Was it the edgier headshot you used?
Speaker 1:for this, or was it the more neutral shot? So absolutely asking is totally fine, and then we'll just send them a screenshot of the photo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, should my hair be a little crispy and should I be scruffy or should I shave?
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes it's, that's exactly it. Yeah, hair curly straight up, down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay that literally straight up down yeah, yeah, okay, that's awesome to know. Submission notes.
Speaker 1:Sometimes there'll be instructions. Sometimes the casting will ask you to write in the notes the slating information as well, so they have it verbally, but then they also have it in the notes for their notes. Absolutely, we always tell talent if they are doing a direct upload. We want them to avoid putting other sort of notes in there unless it has something to do with availability, location, work paper status, anything that would make a difference with them being able to do the job. But we say try to avoid putting any sort of other notes in there besides the important information requested.
Speaker 2:Awesome Live callbacks.
Speaker 1:Exciting.
Speaker 2:Virtual or in person?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Exciting, so okay. So live callbacks it's very rare that they're happening in person these days, so a lot is happening virtually. But that's exciting. Casting will get to see talent then, at least virtually, and will be able to feel their energy and have a bit more of a better feel for who they are. Really exciting because a lot of the times that'll happen after a self-tape. So getting that virtual callback always very exciting. Sometimes Zooms and other type of portals.
Speaker 2:Okay, and lastly, I have down here breaking the mold. I think what I meant by that is have you seen people book that sort of do, if it fits the role, not an avant-garde self-tape, but just play around with the self-tape medium versus just standing there and doing it right to the camera.
Speaker 1:Sure. So absolutely, we'll have some folks who will absolutely change it up a bit but still have a very nice quality tape that doesn't distract, because truly, casting wants to see you, casting wants to hear you. So as long as things are being changed, but still those are remaining constant, we absolutely are fine with it. A lot of times, talent will also reach out to us, being like okay, what are your thoughts on this? I know I made some really bold choices. Let us know your thoughts, totally open to feedback, and sometimes we'll be like no, we think it's great, absolutely, absolutely. Sometimes we'll say, well, why don't we do another take and we'll submit both.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. Do you have a fun TV film booking?
Speaker 1:story you can share. As far as someone that booked off a self tape that maybe made a bold choice. Sure, sure, yeah, I mean, I have one of my, one of my clients. She booked a recurring guest star on an episodic and doesn't have much TV and film background. I submitted her on it because she was just so perfect for the role, ended up booking it from her self-tape. Right after we submitted the self-tape cast and called me and loved her and was just wowed by her. How amazing they'd never seen her before, really. So that was super exciting and that was about it was only a couple months into our working relationship together, so I had just started working with her. I love that.
Speaker 2:I love when people win yeah.
Speaker 1:Very exciting.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's exciting for you too, because you, you're like the dream maker and you, you know, you spotted that, you saw that.
Speaker 1:I just knew she was right for it. Yeah, she was perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, this time together has been perfect. I mean, what is perfect? But I've loved it. I've enjoyed it. I think you've given us such golden nuggets of wisdom and if you could just sort of end this by giving us a gotten and a given. So we're always looking for the best piece of advice you've gotten in this industry and then the best piece that you have given or have to give to actors. So we could start with that gotten. What is the best piece?
Speaker 1:of advice you've gotten. Okay, wait. So let me just think, because I all right, the best piece, that I have.
Speaker 2:You can take your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so all right, okay. So I have one, but I kind of want to okay. The first thing is I'm going to mold gotten and given together and we'll kind of do two, okay.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:So okay, the first thing is only try to control what you can control. So much in this business you can't control. So the things that you can control, focus on the other things that are really out of your hands. Just try to let them be.
Speaker 2:Hmm, so I've gotten that advice. That's life advice, right there.
Speaker 1:I've given that advice, so that's a bit of a gotten given Okay. I love that and so okay, and then another one would be. Another one would be I mean, that's both.
Speaker 2:You don't have to give another one. I think that applies to life too.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna write that down gotten and given, there we go yeah, release control.
Speaker 2:That's so wonderful, I think, even sometimes. I know friends, I've tried this before. I don't always do it, but that will literally like rip up their sides or just delete them after they do the audition, delete all their takes because they're just like you know, you can't control what's going to happen next, you just got to move on.
Speaker 1:Even as an agent. I mean, there's so much stuff that I want to control and just can't. It's like I'll submit talent for something, I'll push them for something, and you know we'll do all we can. But then it's like, ok, we've done all we can, and now? It's like we just hope, like candles, manifest and things.
Speaker 2:But yeah, there is a take three talent booking candle there was one of those with different scents.
Speaker 1:We have a bunch of different scents.
Speaker 2:What does booking smell like? Okay?
Speaker 1:it could smell like like fire, like wood. We also have one that smells a bit like like an orange kind of citrus. Oh, that makes sense to me so booking has a variety of smells because there's so many different products in the book.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and when you have like a fire burning within you, hopefully that keeps you going. Yeah, I love that. Well, I've loved this time together. Thank you so much, michelle. I appreciate your generosity and, no, I just think we're so lucky to have someone like you in this industry that's looking out for actors and just being such a kind soul. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, robert Pleasure, speaking with you.
Speaker 2:You're the best.
Speaker 1:You too.
