How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
Embracing Cold Reads & Releasing Self Tape Perfection with Lena Hall (Your Friends & Neighbors)
Tony Award-winning actress Lena Hall shares profound insights about the acting process, from combating self tape burnout to finding chemistry with lauded costars like Jon Hamm on Apple TV's YOUR FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS.
Alongside host Robert Peterpaul, this episode covers:
- How cold reads can be a performer's secret weapon.
- Why external success (like her Tony award) never guarantees internal peace.
- What true onscreen chemistry between actors is really rooted in.
- How she built an authentic performance of a character with mental health challenges.
- The magic of working with superstar Jon Hamm and more!
Lena Hall is perhaps best known for her Tony-winning turn in Hedwig and the Angry Inch. She’s also appeared on Broadway in Kinky Boots, 42nd Street, Tarzan and the revival of Little Shop of Horrors. Onscreen, she rocked 4 seasons of AMC’s SNOWPIERCER and recently returned to TV with the aforementioned YOUR FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS. Lena plays Jon Hamm's sister in the hit Apple series, which has already been renewed.
This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to how we Roll a podcast for actors by Casting Networks. How we Roll a podcast for actors by Casting Networks. Hello actors, it's your friendly neighborhood host, robert Peterpaul, popping into the stream to share something a little different this week. Some of my favorite actor homework is consuming content seeing a friend in a show, watching a new series, and recently we loved watching your Friends and Neighbors on Apple. Did you see it? I realize that could sound odd. If you didn't know that was a TV show. I was lucky enough to chat with one of the show's stars, who also happens to be a Tony-winning Broadway powerhouse for my other podcast, the Art of Kindness. Over on that sunny street of the podcast world, we chat with guests who use their platform to create a brighter business. I'd love for you to check it out. Anyway, I'm talking about Lena Hall. She dropped spoonfuls of incredible acting insights that I think you'll eat up. So I cut together a new edit and I'm sharing it here, hoping it inspires you.
Speaker 1:Friend, lena Hall is perhaps best known for her Tony-winning turn in Hedwig and the Angry Inch. She also appeared on Broadway in Kinky Boots, 42nd Street, tarzan and the revival of Little Shop of Horrors. On screen, lena rocked four seasons of AMC's Snowpiercer and recently returned to television with the aforementioned your Friends and Neighbors. Lena plays Jon Hamm's sister in the hit Apple TV series, which has already been renewed. We dive into audition anxiety, the upside of cold reads, self-tape burnout which is real and how letting go can lead to breakthroughs. It's really special to hear someone of her caliber struggle with a lot of the same stuff we all do, whether you're fresh out of drama school, whether you're fresh out of drama school, or whether you're fresh out of drama school or deep into your third callback this week. This one's for you, friend. Here's how we roll with Lena Hall. We're rolling, hall, we're rolling. I think we already had a little cameo from. Is that a dog in the back?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's my dog child. That's Dagny. Oh hi, baby girl. Yeah, she's huge, she's a Great Dane Labrador mix, so she's a giant. Giant dog.
Speaker 1:We might have a cameo from one of my cats. They're not giant and they're not dogs, but they will try and bust through the door. So just to warn you, lena. But I have to say I'm so excited to talk to you. I'm such a big fan of your work and I think obviously I admire your talent. But I've just also really admired over the years the way you speak so openly, like when I think of artists speaking openly. I feel like you've really come into this place where you talk about navigating the business in a really real way, and I've like gone on TikTok and seen you live talking even about kindness, which is what this podcast is all about, or sometimes the lack thereof, which you know happens in this business too.
Speaker 1:Okay, we can be real. So I just I appreciate that about you a lot and I'm happy to talk with you today.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, that's awesome, I had no idea. Well, that's cool. I thought no one saw those TikTok things.
Speaker 1:Listen, we be scrolling, we be scrolling. Hey, I also love your sweater, so there we go. I'm just going to keep complimenting you this entire time.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:You know it's better than therapy, right, that's true, let me cross my legs and get my notebook out.
Speaker 2:This is vintage. I got it at a thrift store in San Francisco on the Haight-Ashbury.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's sweet. Yeah, I love it the vintage stuff is cool because I mean, I like to pretend I'm into that stuff, which I am, but I'm just like I don't really do it enough to really say that it always has a story, like I feel like it comes with a history, so you don't know who you're conjuring right now, but it's a good presence.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Yeah, also, I will say, if you want to get more into vintage shopping there's like, if you ever get a chance to be in Vancouver, canada, their vintage stores are unpicked because everyone in Canada wears the same thing. So anything that's like outside of the regular what is worn every day, it's just like cheap and unpicked. There's fabulous, crazy things available there that you're like why did no one buy this? And why, is it only $35 Canadian dollars? That's like free.
Speaker 1:We all got to get to Canada. I'm going to write that down. Yeah, Vancouver I'm not picturing Doug Funnies just like walking around, because you said everyone wears the same thing. I don't know if that reference is going to go over anybody's head.
Speaker 2:I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Doug Funnies.
Speaker 2:Oh Doug, Maybe that wasn't your gen the tv show doug oh, oh, doug.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, okay, yes, thank you, I thought I was on an island for a second, but I will say I yeah. The first question I always like to ask here after I like accost people with genuine compliments is how are you at accepting compliments? Because I feel like it's something you get in this industry, but it's like also a tricky thing sometimes, depending on your, your state I'm terrible at accepting.
Speaker 2:You did a good job. I, it's true, it's like learned. You know, anytime someone gives me a compliment, I kind of roll my eyes Like I'm like there's no way they're telling me the truth. It's this weird thing that I have where, um, I have a horrible, horrible time accepting compliments because I feel like a critique is what's true and a compliment is just a lie. Um, and, and I don't know, maybe that's because I grew up in the ballet world where, you know, every little thing is critiqued because it's such this, you know, perfectionist kind of art form. That is just impossible, it's impossible, like it's. It's impossible to become, well, no one's perfect, obviously, but it's impossible to become perfect in ballet, right, there's always a critique. So I grew up in that world and I was always critiqued. When I was little, like, I was started ballet when I was, you know, out of the womb, I basically was born into it. So it's, you know, um, so to receive a compliment is like, like you, you know, like, why would you? Why? Um?
Speaker 2:and that can't possibly be true. And then and then I guess the real, the real way I receive compliments is not spoken, you know, like I hear it but I never absorb it. The way I only ever absorb compliments and I must work on this with my therapist is like through applause.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting, Because I grew up on stage, yeah. Wow, that validation of the skin touching each other.
Speaker 2:That's the validation. It's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like that Because that's kind of the only compliment you get in the ballet world really is just the applause. Yeah, there's not really any other specifics aside from the critique. No, why would they? I know it's such an intense world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why would they ever say you know, oh, that's a beautiful developpe. No, they're like, if you do this, it'll go even higher. It's like always something to work on in the ballet world. It is wild.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I know to an intense level that, to be true, I mean not personally. I'm not wearing ballet slippers right now.
Speaker 1:I'd honestly break both my legs and fall into my face and they'd have a lot of critiques with me, we'll say Lina. But I was interested in how your relationship has changed with perfectionism over the years as you've entered this industry in many different ways, because I think a lot of us struggle with that right. You're self-taping and you're like my lighting's not perfect. I look like a Muppet, which I always do anyway, and like what you know, I love that. Actually, it's fine. There's a million things going through your head as an artist. So to have even someone else saying that, I'm sure growing up made your relationship with perfectionism trickier. I don't know. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it did.
Speaker 2:And you're right. As an artist, we strive for this idea of perfection that doesn't exist. An idea of the perfect performance it doesn't exist. Uh, we cannot objectively see what we do because we are inside of ourselves and we know the mechanisms of how we perform. So, to us, when we see our work, let's say with a self-tape, or anytime I see myself back on screen or hear myself back singing, my lived perception of what happened is a completely different thing than the perception of what I'm watching. And it's such a disconnect because it feels one way. And then, when you watch it, it looks a completely different way and you're like, oh, that's so bad, right, because it doesn't match whatever you think is going on in your head, and so, because it's like a mismatch, it's never good enough, it'll never be good enough. And so I found that, if I I have a lot of grace for myself now, because when I watch something, I go, that's fine.
Speaker 1:You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean Just go, it's fine. Nope, yeah Like like especially a self tape. If, if I, if I make it through the scene, you know, and I make it through the scene, and it's kind of connected and it felt good, then I usually like, I'll, I'll briefly watch it back but I won't get really into it and I'll be like it's great, it's fine, just moving on.
Speaker 1:Okay, I need to learn that from you because we can enter that self-tape spiral where it's like you're on, take number 27 and your reader who's like is probably your partner. Whoever you're living with, is like I'm about to leave this relationship, but you know you're like, I can get one more, you know Right yeah, and the problem with that is, I feel, that when you get overly into your head, then your intuitions stop doing what they do.
Speaker 2:So well, our intuitions can take a scene and interpret a scene in like the purest sense. So your first few takes are going to be kind of the best.
Speaker 2:And then, as you go further into the oh, I want to fix it. I want to fix it because you keep watching back you lose a sense of that initial, your initial response to the scene, and there it becomes more robotic or it becomes more acted, quote, unquote, right. Whereas when, if you do it kind of willy nilly and you're searching for the words and you're trying to figure out what the scene is, that in and of itself is, you're so present in the moment, you're so trying to figure out what the scene is and you're so like that you're there, you're in it and it's just these intentions that just come flying out, because you're so overthinking about everything else and the logistics of it You're not, it's, there's so much intention there already that you don't have to fight with it. But then when you start like oh, I know this scene, you know you get, then it becomes overly, it just becomes overly thought yeah, yeah, and then it can.
Speaker 1:That's so true. Yeah, it can lose it, the the. It can lose the complexity, like overcooked pasta.
Speaker 2:It just gets yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. It loses the, that initial oomph that you have when, the energy you have when you're first doing the scene.
Speaker 1:I'm going to Venmo you for acting lessons just now, just so you know. I mean I think you'd be such a phenomenal acting coach. I know you don't need that. Maybe a side business one day if you're into it.
Speaker 2:I might you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Listen, helping people. It's a good gig. I love helping people, yeah.
Speaker 2:I want people to like know that. You know it like that because I went through a struggle with this, that, and I'm still going through a struggle with this. I'm on a.
Speaker 2:I am on a you know number one TV show on Apple TV Plus which is so good, Massive right this is massive Yep, and I still struggle like, still struggle with the industry, still struggle with acting, still struggle with accepting myself and my talent and the limitations of my talent, like I still struggle every single day and I still learn things that I wish I had known 20 years ago. So for me to give everyone the knowledge, if they want to be a sponge and just to, like you know, have that knowledge that I wish I had had 20 years ago, I'm so happy to give it because to me it brings more joy knowing that someone got a nugget of something that's going to help them in the long run to like find their way. That, to me, is like the best Cause I'd rather give back than to just simply keep it like taking.
Speaker 1:I want to hold back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like if you give me this then I'll give you all my knowledge, because I just absolutely love to to you know, see if any of this can make a difference in any actor's life, so they don't have to deal with some of the some of the stuff I had dealt with and didn't know any better and there was no one to tell me.
Speaker 1:Well, so much. I mean, think about growing up and then seeing, you know, watching your favorite TV show, and seeing a person on that show, on that number one show, come out and say I'm still struggling with this. The person over here who's on self-tape take number 27 spiraling can say I'm struggling in a different way, you know, and it's just, it's relatable, it helps us connect and no matter what sort of you're on, if you can just be open about that, I think it's kind of why we're here. Yeah, and in addition to helping helping others and before we get into friends and the neighbors, of course I would love to know, alina, starting in your career, were there acts of kindness or a big act of kindness that kind of stands out to you as changing your trajectory early on, just to kind of fly over?
Speaker 2:as your dog leaves the room. They're like this is a big question.
Speaker 1:I need to go. I'm sure there were a lot, but I would love to know if there was a way, kindness sort of transformed the journey you were on.
Speaker 2:Um, hmm, um.
Speaker 1:From cats to headway to, I know.
Speaker 2:This is terrible. Um well kindness.
Speaker 1:It can also be like a self-kindness, because I think kindness gets like a puppies in rainbow rep the creative team that sat there and, you know, like one guy.
Speaker 2:So my first show was Cats. It was the National Touring Company of Cats and I went to an open call in San Francisco. The kindness of my friend calling me, who was like you need to get your ass here now because they're having auditions for women at one and it's like 12 o'clock, can you get here? And so, like you need to get your ass here now because they're having auditions for women at one and it's like 12 o'clock, can you get here? And so the kindness of my friend being like you need to come to the kindness of the creative team. Apparently, I remember this one of the guys who is on the creative team. He had to leave early but he stayed for my entire callback and missed his flight just waiting for me and allowing me to prove myself that I could do something like that.
Speaker 2:For this guy to be like yes, her Another act of kindness to miss your flight. For that Like, because I will say that was probably the biggest changing that would. That was, that was my life altering thing was booking the touring company of Cats, because I wasn't planning on going into the industry. I wasn't planning on going into dance or theater, or it was always just going to be something I did on the side and I wasn't. I wasn't.
Speaker 1:But the TV film thing at first was like didn't you have a crush on someone?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, but I do just want to be famous to marry this person. Correct. Yeah, jonathan Brandes.
Speaker 1:Okay, shout out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shout out, Jonathan Brandes.
Speaker 2:JB we miss you and I wanted to be on TV because I wanted to meet him and marry him, like, like that was my you know goal in life. But you know, to do musical theater and to perform on stage, I did not think it was something that I could do viably as a career. Didn't take the SATs, I didn't apply for any colleges because I was kind of in a phase of like, what is it that I want to do, what am I good at and what brings me joy? For a while I thought maybe I would be like a therapist or a psychiatrist or something like that, where I would help people, because I was very curious about how people are and their psyche and like how, like what, what they're driven by, like people fascinate me and still do. But you know, again I was like I don't know what I want to do with my life. And then, and then my friend called me and I went to this audition randomly and then three months later, like right after my 18th birthday, it changed my trajectory of my life completely.
Speaker 1:Wow, mm-hmm, so you're just picking up the phone and calling people when you think of them, yeah exactly To change someone's whole life. Yes, Instead of that person. I mean, I have ADHD, so it's a little hard.
Speaker 2:But instead of that person just kind of you know, saying, oh, like I don't want to overstep or whatever, right, yeah, no, you know, it's okay to give your friends a heads up if they're perfect for something, it's okay. It's not a competition. Really honestly, it is not a competition If your friends excel because you were like I'm auditioning for this, but you'd be so much better in this, or you should come in with me, or we could do this together, like who cares? Like if you don't, it doesn't matter if you don't book it, and they do Like I don't see the. There's no problem in that, because it's like there's, there's, you know everybody's on their own journey. Their, their success is different.
Speaker 1:Everyone's success is completely different and you have to be okay with going on the journey that you're going on, even if it means that you're not going to get to a place where you thought you would. Oh, and there's room for everybody and there's actually science that shows that kindness does come back to you. It is contagious and it does come back, and it's not why we do it. But I've had instances where I had an audition and you know the same thing happened. I'm like my friend would be so much better for this. I sent it to them and then casting actually remembers you as being sort of like a kind human. You know, like it does come back to you again, not why you do it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So if there's something behind it where there's like there's, you know, there's like, oh, I'm going to get something back if I do this, then that's actually not kindness, that's a transaction. And yeah, and kindness is not a transaction. Kindness is one way.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is reciprocal and it does change.
Speaker 2:What it does is it kind of changes your perspective of the world. The kinder you are and the more giving and loving and compassionate you are, your vision of the world will shift into that and you will see the world as kinder and more compassionate and more loving to you and it will open you up for those opportunities and you'll kind of be more loving to you and it will open you up for those opportunities and you'll kind of be more free to that. When you're more focused on like they have more than I do and it's a competition and this is so hard and it's that and everybody sucks. Guess what's going to come. That energy is going to come right to you and guess what? It is going to suck. It won't be like it would like, like it would. So I think in when kindness is done, where it's like in a transactional sense, where you're expecting something to come back to you, then then that's kind of it that sends it on a negative swing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not the best intention or genuine. It's sort of like just being quote, unquote nice, maybe, or polite, yeah, and a little could be manipulative.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, I love that you bring that up because it's sort of like watching your friends on a TV show or on Broadway, whatever it is, thinking being so excited for them and thinking I'm excited for when that happens to me, versus being jealous and maybe going down a different path. I think that mindset's super important. And as we bring up Broadway, you know we're the Broadway podcast network, so before we get to Apple we'll start at the B before we go to the A, which is backwards, but it's okay, it's A-okay. I think people would troll me if I did not just ask you about Hedwig for a second, which, as a kid, I would see the billboards and I didn't understand why it wasn't about Harry Potter's owl. But you know that's not my question, because that's well. That could be an angry inch if you look at the author of that, but you delivered. You know such a vulnerable performance, kind of night after night. I wonder how I guess kindness whether it was from others or toward yourself played a role in sustaining you through that like emotional, intense show.
Speaker 2:Oh well, this is the opposite of kindness, so that's still a learning experience it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was very unkind to myself during that time period and I was spiraling into a really dark place, which is odd to think, because you would think that, oh, you won a Tony Award. This must have been the greatest thing of your life and it was a huge accomplishment and I'm so grateful for that and it was a highlight. But underneath the surface of everything was a real dark struggle that was going on. Where I was struggling at home and then on stage, I was beating myself up in my head and that, to me, I was like in the character. You know, the character is a very beaten down person and only until they are let go and let free are they able to be themselves and have this journey and transformation.
Speaker 2:And what I was doing was I was feeling like it was okay to treat myself horribly like this because it was part of the character and it made it more real, and so I was not taking care of myself. I was completely burning the candle at both ends. I had very little, you know, to give and emotionally I was extremely unstable and so I was making really weird choices that I probably wouldn't make if I could do it all over again. But, with all of that said, it created, you know, a relatable character for everyone where you saw someone who was really going through it and you really believed it and you really wanted this person to get out of this situation and to become who they really are and want to be.
Speaker 2:And um and by that I connected with a lot of people um, which was really special, and I and I think the Hedwig community is is one of those extremely special communities, that it's small but mighty the people who have been touched and have related to Hedwig and the story of Hedwig and the story of Yitzhak are forever and like forever fans and forever obsessed with the show and will always you know, will always be affected anytime they see the show or hear the show or any iteration of the show. So I think that, like, as far as kindness is concerned, yeah, there was kindness thrown to me because of the situation and because of what I was doing to myself. I didn't see it, Nick, I was blind to it, because to me it was all about this character. It was all about and I was making the character my life, unintentionally.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, kind of living in the misery of this, this fight, and I would have it would be a different experience. Of course, I think the character would still be wrought with the pain and everything that you need, because when you live your just living life, you'll feel that You'll, you'll have enough experience, no matter what happens to your life. You have enough experience to be able to play a character. It's really, really true. I mean, if you've ever felt out of place or like you're not in your own skin, or like you've been abused or like you've been hurt, it doesn't even matter. You could go all the way back to being a child, like a really little child.
Speaker 2:Someone took away your doll and you can use that emotion for abandonment or for you, you know, or your parents were supposed to pick you up from school and they forgot, and you can use that like you can use all of it. So you don't need a ton of life experience in order to infuse a character with truth. Yeah, um, so, and I I wasn't figuring that out that well yeah and uh and so, um and so now, if I went back and I played yitzhak again, but sober, it would be a. I would have a different experience with it and, um, I definitely wouldn't put myself through some of the hell that I put myself through and it wasn't for the art, it was for it was.
Speaker 2:It was to beat myself down, because the character is so beaten down. It was like it was not conscious, it was not intentional, but it was doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry you went through that. First of all, I appreciate you sharing it and I love that you kind of put the emphasis on how it helps people. You know you said it helped me connect with people and it helps people feel seen.
Speaker 1:And I think that speaks to who you are, probably the fact that that's your takeaway. It's a lesson a lot of actors, I think, have to learn, and it's really interesting hearing it from you that it was during that time of winning a Tony where a lot of us might think, oh, finally, be kind to myself when I get that acknowledgement, it's like you know, maybe it's.
Speaker 2:I think awards are great in the sense that it does give you something to strive for, but it's like, well, what if I want to do that? What if that's something that I want to do? You know, it's like, why can't I do that? Or well, people are going to think that you're struggling. Or people are going to think this you need to keep up the idea that you're, you know, unattainable and that people are going to want you more. And dah, dah, dah, and it's like it can have a negative effect.
Speaker 2:Interestingly enough, you know it's interesting, it can also have an insanely positive effect where it will open all the doors. So there's a double edged there. There's a real double edge there. So for anyone who's really wanting to win an award and is like gung ho for it and wants it, you have to understand that there are some things that come with it that are a surprise, but there are some things that come with it that that are a surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, I'm like, but I want to do that you know, dumb little role in that, in that show, because I want to work and then everyone around you is like drink the Kool-Aid and you're like no, but I kind of want Sprite or Dr Pepper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I need to work, I want to work. It's not about like. For me, it was never about the status you know a status symbol of I have a Tony award, so you have to treat me like a Tony award winner. It's like I want I. I want a Tony award, which is amazing. Like that. It was a confirmation that I was doing a good job at what I do and that people noticed that and that's amazing.
Speaker 2:But I thrive on working and I thrive on diving into as many different things as I possibly can because it makes me better at what I do. And for me, like I want what's the point of just doing what I do and stopping at a certain point? That I get to like as far as like the, as far as like the, the level of craft that I do? Like what's the point of getting there and stopping? Like I want to get there but I want to keep going. I want to get better, I want to expand the things that I can do and the ways that I can bring character to life. Like I want to go for it. Like, and I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like Dr Seuss, all the places you will go Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And look where you've gone now. I mean I got to get to your friends and neighbors, which I'm not just saying this, I mean I think most of the world is loving this show. It's such a great binge. I do love that we first meet you in the show. We see the contrast of the whole show. It's like you're sitting on this idyllic, beautiful lawn but then we don't realize you're kind of terrorizing maybe the people in the house in a way like it's a different experience for them, which is kind of the show's theme.
Speaker 1:In a sense, it's like you're in this rich neighborhood, but that underbelly is so different. So suffice to say congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm like reviewing the show live to you. I just really do find that your storyline in particular has a lot to do with kindness. Like your character, allie is kind of the heart of the show, at least in what I've seen so far. Can you just speak to how you fleshed her out? You know, I know you felt connected to her from the moment you got the audition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know you could get so just from a like, a perspective of connection or the character wise. You can get hung up when a character description says bipolar or says you know certain like words that you're like oh, got a bipolar, you know, got to research, you know it's like. You can get kind of hung up on that when you have to realize that oh wait, no, this person is a person. It doesn't matter their mental health state. Whatever I need in the scene, it's written in there and I can decipher it. I don't have to go and research how you know how it is to be living on this planet when you're bipolar.
Speaker 2:Um, cause I think everyone's experience is wildly different. There's massive, there's huge spectrums of that, and so it didn't really come into play because I felt like underneath it all, there's a level of sadness that is just palpable with her, everything she says and everything she does, there's a level of like well, this is who I am and that's okay, and she is just living through life, just trying to feel like, normal, like, aren't we all just trying to feel normal Like? Aren't we all just trying to feel normal If?
Speaker 1:it even exists. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:What is normal, but so you know her.
Speaker 2:Not me yeah exactly so she struggles with that. There's that internal thing in there and I relate so much to the struggle of just wanting to like feel like I'm I'm normal, like feel like you know, like I can function on a daily basis like everyone else seems to do, but somehow I, I sit here and I feel, like you know, stuck on something or dragged down by something that I feel like everyone else could just be fine with and like why do I have a hard time with this? Why can't I deal with this? Why aren't I normal?
Speaker 1:I get that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So for her, just the opening of sitting on a lawn and playing fake plastic trees by radiohead it, it's such a tell for the character, it's such a great introduction to her. Um, because that song can say it all in, and the band, the radiohead, it says it all, like the, the angst of it, the sadness of it, the confusion of it and the fighting with itself. I'm a Radiohead fan, so for me it spoke volumes. And then the rest of the scene. I could just and be. You know that little sister who's kind of like oh hey, what's up. You know, you know I'm kind of melancholy right now. I'm like I'm feeling it.
Speaker 1:You know, how are you how you're not leading, like you said, with the disease, but instead just showing this person reacting in any given moment. They just have a different, you know, set of paint brushes than the rest of us and they're a lot more colorful, and sometimes there's knives inside the brush.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, yeah, there's nothing that is, you know that it's like it's just that they it's like it's just, it's just living in a world that is set up for someone else and trying to navigate that, and there's so many people who feel that way. I feel like on the spectrum.
Speaker 1:We talked about it before.
Speaker 2:They say that a lot on that show yeah, I feel like everyone, it has something where they feel like they, they function in a way that is not set up for them, it's set up for someone else. The normal people quote unquote, which doesn't really exist, and so, therefore, I feel like Ali is a highly relatable character, because we're all just trying to survive in this world and you know, the world is difficult, it's just difficult and um, you see people who have their lives seemingly together and you think that you want that, but really they're also struggling too, so that you know, and you don't have to give it a name, like you don't have to give it a name like bipolar or like autism or any of that, or depression or anything. I think it's a universal feeling of everyone feeling like we're just trying to survive in this world and put one foot in front of the other and deal with a world that is set up for someone else.
Speaker 1:That's brilliant. What's the song? You put one foot in front of the other. It's like the Christmas movie Put one foot in front of the other and soon you'll be walking out the door. You have this. I'm going to save that and post it at Christmas time. You have this probably going to forget. You have this beautiful moment with Jon Hamm I mean many in the show, but early on in the show where you basically say you come to his house and you say hey, you know you might think that you suck at life, but in the brother department you're pretty amazing and I just like found that so touching and it made me wonder did you like that? I took my breath away to see that. I think, because I'm a brother, I don't know. Did you two have the time to develop that relationship or is that just natural chemistry?
Speaker 2:It's our natural chemistry. We like, we did a chemistry read when I got a callback which was a shock.
Speaker 2:Um uh, trust, it was a shock, uh, cause I hadn't been booking anything for a long time. I was going through, I was going through the like the long, where you're like, uh, another, another self tape. I'm not going to get this, I'll just put myself on tape really quick, just do, you know, do a real whatever, like, I'm just gonna say I did it, put it out there. You know it was one of those. So it was like, well, what? Yeah, um, and they did a chemistry check with me and john over zoom, which is hilarious, and uh, and they were like, yeah, you got it, I it. I was like, oh, okay, this is wild, what? So when we went to go film, honestly, it was like setting up this chemistry with John was pretty instantaneous when we met, because he feels to me well for me. You know, I don't know his thing. Maybe it was really hard for him, I don't know, but for me it was easy.
Speaker 1:I have a transcript from here, let me uh from him. Let me read it now because for me it was.
Speaker 2:it was an immediate sense of home and big brother like protection. It's that big brother protection. I felt like I got a hug and I was like okay, okay, yeah, this is an openness, and there's just an openness to chemistry. There's an openness there that it's hard to explain. But if you have one, if you're working on chemistry with someone, and you have one person who's like kind of, yeah, you know, it's really it's impossible to have chemistry with that person because they are walled, yeah, it's like Mom.
Speaker 1:Shannon and Superstar with the tree, Although the tree doesn't. I don't know if you've seen that scene.
Speaker 2:Oh, you've got to watch Superstar if you haven't seen it, it's so good.
Speaker 1:Okay, sorry, I'm just being a muppet. Now I know what I'm saying Right.
Speaker 2:So when you try to have chemistry with someone, I did have that experience where I was like, hey, you know and they were like they're like over here oh no. Oh, we're never gonna. This is impossible. Like hi, you know, I'm here, I'm open, open. So just the simple fact that he's so he's a very giving actor and he's very open and he'll go there with you. He'll just start riffing off things and going off book.
Speaker 2:And you're like, oh all right, yeah, let's riff, let's do this. I'm on the same page as you. It's like a match of energy. So it was instantaneous, like the chemistry and the setup and the feeling like this guy you know who I had just met was my brother forever. It was fast and easy and kind, kindness. That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to ask you about kindness with someone so sort of iconic. I mean, this actor has done such amazing things, People all over the world know him. Director has done such amazing things, People all over the world know him. And I just wonder too, as a number one on the call sheet, are there things?
Speaker 2:you witnessed that you really appreciated from like a kindness standpoint. Yeah, actually he's not Okay. So there's a lot of people who are like I'm not going to take a note from another actor. A lot of people are like I'm not taking a note from another.
Speaker 2:I'm like uh-uh, no, like you have to work together you cannot always have a director come to you and be like, how can I help? You've got to be open to that. And so anytime John was like, oh hey, could you just like wait a second so I can finish this move, so we can have that line in the clear, blah, blah, blah. You know, I mean he's like been doing this forever. I'm like, oh yeah, totally no problem. Like absolutely of course. Yeah, happy to be here for you, you know.
Speaker 2:And he would do the same for me, like if I asked for anything that I needed, he would do the same for me. So, and it opened the stage for me to ask questions as well. So it creates this again, this trust, an actor trust, where you're like I, you know, I trust that you, you are going to tell me what you need. I trust that you are know your shit enough, like that you're going to deliver and I can feed off of your delivery and we can kind of feed the energy back and forth. And that's going to kind of create the symbiosis with the chemistry and with what we need to create.
Speaker 2:So I think with John, I mean A, he's been doing it for so long. He's very professional. No nonsense, love that. Very professional, no nonsense, love that. But he's also open, free and honest and that honesty that I experienced helped me trust and that instant connection came from just the open and honesty and the trust Like I got this, you got this, we got this and now we're going to like improv some stuff and we'll have some fun with it here and have some fun like who cares?
Speaker 2:yeah, how are you great? Yeah, so it just is like um, it's a relaxation that happens with the trust, and I also have um scenes with rameen caramalu, who I've done show, who I've done something with before, and and so we had to have all this chemistry and that was super easy because it was just like, oh, my God, hey, how are you? Okay, you know like yeah, so it's just one of those things, it's like you got. But when I met Ramin, I remember being like oh, you're open, like I can feel how open you are to wanting to have the chemistry and doing a good job with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't need to find a key to try and pick someone's block. I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2:It should be like, just if you remain open as an actor and you're like you can, it's like it's almost like you're opening up, to be like I'm going to open up to you because I want you to trust me. You know there, it's not a gift, it's an invitation.
Speaker 1:Essentially, oh, I love that. Well, we all have an invitation to keep watching the show because it already got renewed, which is wild and it speaks to the kind of show it is. I don't know if I have an invitation to ever see Ramin again, because I was a reader at ABC and he came into audition, which was cool to see because he was a big Broadway star and he was going in for a role when a ton of people were going and he was nervous, whatever, and I came out and I was just like uh ramen, ramen, um kirimalu, and he was actually. He was really nice about it, but I didn't, I actually didn't know. I think he was in Les Mis at the time. I didn't, I actually didn't know. I think he was in Les Mis at the time. I hadn't seen it. I don't know. I'm the worst. It's okay, it's tricky because you don't want to over like research people, because you want to meet people as people, but you want to know things.
Speaker 2:It's okay. You know what? It's okay.
Speaker 1:Thank you Okay.
Speaker 2:Trust People. Do it all the time, really All the time, lena, lena.
Speaker 1:I always get a where's Mary, because my last name is Peter Paul and it's like Peter. Paul and Mary and I'm like she died actually Mary and her family.
Speaker 2:Anyway, You're like, my mom's name was Mary. She's dead.
Speaker 1:They'll be like you're like I'm fine. There's like a twin of me suddenly with a knife. It's like what's going on there? I'm going to walk away. So you know you sing in the show and I wonder, like, do you think this show could be a musical? I know that's a weird random question, guess you haven't gotten it before, but I want to know.
Speaker 2:I don't want it to be a musical.
Speaker 1:Can we stop making?
Speaker 2:everything musicals. I'm so exhausted by it. Not that it's fine because it's not made for me, like these things are. These shows are not made for me to watch, which is fine because I can't anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, you always I've heard you say like a show will find its audience and if it's a good show, it'll last with that audience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true. Look at Stereophonic is a great example. Three and a half hour play. A three and a half hour play, honey, that, yeah, three and a half hours. I remember when I heard it was three and a half I was like oh God, right, because no one wants to see a three and a half hour play.
Speaker 1:I know A Long Day's Journey Into Night with Jessica Lange. I did want to watch her, but that was. It was a long day's journey. I'm just going to say that.
Speaker 2:But this is a okay. So three and a half hour play. First barrier no stars. Second barrier Not a known IP. Third barrier Sells out Huge hit.
Speaker 2:I went and saw it. I thought it was incredible and that three and a half hours I was like I could watch this for six. That's amazing. It's so good and it was so well done. And that's the thing Not all the producers actually.
Speaker 2:There was actually a producer, apparently, that pulled out from funding the Off-Broadway because they were like if you don't cast a star, I am not going to fund this show. And they didn't. They were like no, we don't want a star in it, we want the show to speak for itself. That's what I think. Ultimately, what happened with Hedwig was, after they had established it as this big, huge thing with Neil Patrick Harris in it, they forgot to focus on how good the show is. It doesn't need a star. You don't need a star to sell Hedwig. The show is so good, you don't need a star to sell that show. And so I think they lost sight. They got the star thing and then they got trapped in the trappings of like must have a star Instead of being like Neil Patrick Harris. Neil Patrick Harris is amazing. Now let's focus on how incredible this show is. Let's focus on how incredible everybody else is in the show. Let's focus on how beautiful and how much you must see the show, no matter who is in it, because the show that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think you can get stuck in the trappings of well, you have to hire a star in order to sell tickets, but if you know, it's tricky because on the opposite side too, I want to shout out you know, little Shop, I think, is actually doing a great job of it's an iconic show and people want to see that show. But they're also putting in very surprising people for the roles that we've come to know and love and I think that's a cool sweet spot in this current industry where again everything's being made into a musical. They want the IP or they want like a big name when there's no work anywhere, so like George Clooney's coming to Broadway and all these people, and so it is sort of a tricky thing.
Speaker 2:It is. There's a sweet spot.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I know I got to let you go. Lina, can you please just share a kindness tip for listeners? So can you leave us with something you would like everybody out there to do on their own corner of the world to take action and try and make the world a little brighter overall.
Speaker 2:Heavy questions. I know I'm sorry Got to be kind, honestly, it's be a listener, just be a listener, because a lot of times people just need someone who can really listen. And they don't need a fix, they don't need suggestions, they don't need help. They don't need the help is the listening, and you can learn a lot if you just listen to someone. That's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:I'm going to write that down and print it on my wall. And look at it Oops, that's so beautiful. I'm going to write that down and print it on my wall and look at it. Oops, that's kind of what John does for you and you know, to bring it back to your show a little bit Like he doesn't seem at least this point forward trying to fix Allie. He seems like he's just kind of there for her. Yeah, safe place to land.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is a beautiful place for us to land.
Speaker 2:Yes, and.
Speaker 1:I've so enjoyed this time with you, Lena. Thank you so much. Thank you and I'm grateful that we have you to look up to in this business. Oh, thank you, because I think you're doing great stuff.
Speaker 2:Thank you, peter, paul and Mary.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, Lina.
