How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How to Handle Rejection & Stay Motivated with Casting Director Stephanie Klapper
Rejection is part of an actor's journey, but renowned casting director Stephanie Klapper suggests we reframe how we think about it – not as a door slamming in our face, but as one color in the larger palette of our artistic experience. Join host Robert Peterpaul as he chats with the Casting Director about redefining rejection and staying motivated in the entertainment industry.
This episode covers:
• Why rejection isn't personal in a business that is personal
• How merely getting an audition is a win today
• Tangible tips for navigating heartbreak and staying motivated and more
STEPHANIE KLAPPER is a New York based casting director and the founder of Stephanie Klapper Casting (SKC), an independent casting group. Her award-winning work is frequently seen on Broadway, Off-Broadway, regionally, on concert stages, film and television. Select recent credits include: the upcoming new musical, Mythic (Fall 2025 Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park/dir. Kathleen Marshall); The Crooked Cross (Mint Theater Off- Broadway Fall 2025); Garside’s Career (Mint Theater); The Night of the Iguana (Signature Theatre Center, Off-Broadway); among many others.
A graduate of New York’s Music and Art High School (The “Fame School”) and SUNY College at Purchase, she is a frequent guest teacher and lecturer at many colleges and universities around the country, including NYU’s New Studio on Broadway, USC, UNCSA, Syracuse University’s Tepper Semester and ESPA at Primary Stages. She is a mentor with NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts Women’s Mentorship Program, and Fordham High School for the Arts.
Stephanie and her team at SKC are passionate about arts education and working with creative teams to develop new work and expand the scope of established work. Connecting creative, caring people to each other to make extraordinary things happen along with working with emerging artists to help them develop their careers is amongst her greatest joys.
Board Member: Casting Society Cares; Member: Casting Society; Jimmy Awards Preliminary Judge; Advisory Board: Say Gay Plays. www.klappercasting.com
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Hi, this is Stephanie Clapper, 5'1" New York City native, born and raised in Greenwich Village, new York City, and ready to roll and how we roll.
Speaker 2:When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to how we Roll, a podcast for actors by Casting Networks. Hi actors, it's your friend, robert Peter Paul, standing on the cliff of what I think is such a tender topic, it's both painful and not because it's something we all get used to. How to handle rejection and not lose your motivation. The truth is, as artists, we're told no far more often than yes, and that can feel crushing at times. But here's the thing Rejection isn't the end of your story. It's simply a chapter or two and according to today's guest, it's not even a great word. Please welcome sensational casting director, my friend Stephanie Clapper. Stephanie Clapper is a New York-based casting director and the founder of Stephanie Clapper Casting SKC, an independent casting group an independent casting group. Fun fact, she graduated from New York's music and art high school, the Fame School, and since then has become one of the city's most beloved casting directors. Stephanie's award-winning work is frequently seen on Broadway, off-broadway, regionally, on concert stages and in film and television. She brings her knowledge to various colleges and universities around the country, including NYU, usc, Syracuse and more, as a guest teacher and lecturer. Stephanie is also a board member of Casting Society Cares, a Jimmy Awards preliminary judge and on the advisory board of Say Gay Plays. Her and her team at SKC are most passionate about arts education and working with creative teams to develop new work and expand the scope of established work. Visit clappercastingcom for more.
Speaker 2:This topic received the most traction we've had on social media. Yet that's right, friend. You can submit your cues on social media at Casting Networks and at Rob Peterpaul, or via the link in our show notes. Stephanie answered as many of your questions as we could get to. Thank you to all who contributed and thank you for being here. Here's how we roll with Rejection and Staying Motivated, featuring Stephanie Clapper Claps to that with a K. Let's roll. Today we're covering a universal topic rejection and staying motivated, a struggle we all have as humans, and it's kind of twofold right, because the majority of our career we're going to be told no. So the trick becomes how do we deal with the no and stay motivated despite that? But since rejection can be a little heavy, I want to ask my lovely, amazing guest who I admire and have just been basking in the glow of before we started recording here, miss Stephanie Clapper. A silly question to kick things off, if you'll humor me, stephanie.
Speaker 1:Please, yes, okay.
Speaker 2:So when you're deep into a long day of audition sessions or reviewing tapes, what's your go-to snack?
Speaker 1:Oh, lately, because it's so warm and it's the summer watermelon.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful, that's healthy, that's sweet. I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you ever?
Speaker 2:bury it in the sand when you go to the beach.
Speaker 1:It's supposed to keep it cool. No, I've never done that, but I don't go to the beach too often, so good to know.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, mentally, we're all going to go to the beach of rejection right now.
Speaker 2:with Stephanie, who is such an amazing casting director, You're going to get a lot of those today. I love it. Everyone, please take a deep breath. Why don't we pretend we're on a beach and we're seeing the ocean waves roll in? Because I know this topic can be a little bit triggering. But I thought a nice place to start after my silly Muppet question would be something that I'm inspired by from you on your own podcast that you do Someone's Thunder. Everybody tune in. It's called Someone's Thunder. You like to start with a quote, so I thought we could do the same.
Speaker 1:I love it. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:So I found this one Somehow. I scoured the Internet and I just thought it was simple and sweet. Creating any sense of art is rejection, and that is from Miss Viola Davis.
Speaker 1:It's a great quote and really interesting. I think when we get into this art form, we don't think about rejection, we think largely about creating. When we get into this art form, we don't think about rejection, we think largely about creating. And when we're kids, I think that we're not thinking about the business side of it yet, but the joy that it gives us in doing it, and I think that's really why we do it. So when the rejection comes into it, it's sort of like a loss of innocence in a sense, like you've lost the purity of it because this other color is coming in.
Speaker 1:And I guess the trick for the lifetime of us who choose to do this forever is how to make peace with what that means and look at it as maybe it is just that it's a color in a larger palette of what we're creating, and it's just one element in how we move forward and still doing what we want to be doing.
Speaker 2:That's so beautiful. I love the way you put that and I wonder too, in learning more about you and researching you. I know your father was an actor and sort of did it for the love of it.
Speaker 1:He did dabble in acting but really he was a musician most of the time. But he was a lawyer to support the family. But if he could have just been a musician all the time, that would have been his.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was his number one love. Okay, because I remember hearing you talk about him doing a show or something and I thought that was when I was a little kid, but yeah, that was just he was.
Speaker 1:he pursued many artistic things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to see, I guess, a role model, doing that for the love of it and sort of not getting caught up in the rejection as much maybe. I just wondered if that informed you, as you now have been on this path.
Speaker 1:I think that both my parents were really great about reminding me that it was only in that moment rejection.
Speaker 1:It wasn't it wasn't the bigger picture, it was just in the um, in the context of whatever it was, but that they also encouraged me about how to move forward from rejection, because I think I mean I'm trying to remember sort of what their perspective was, but it really was that it was just that thing, but it wasn't. It didn't qualify me in terms of what I was trying to create. There's just the landscape of there, so, and I think, as a casting person, taking into account there's so many other things that come into play with making decisions, that I try to think of it as the opportunities people are given more so than the rejection that people experience, because I think everything is about who you meet in that time, but it's not only about in the time of that piece, but about there too no-transcript mindset switch, too, that you were talking about.
Speaker 2:it's just important in life, right, you know? Going throughout your day training your brain to recognize the beautiful things that happen, like I just saw a bird fly by my window, which was really sweet, versus looking, maybe, down at my trash bins and reminding myself I got to take the trash out.
Speaker 2:You know, it's sort of a perspective thing and I'm curious, stephanie, because we actually talk about it a lot on here. But I think a lot of actors don't realize that casting directors also are rejected fairly often. It's a very competitive industry and I think you I mean you're so acclaimed and wonderful and have a great reputation, Everybody loves you, but nobody can get every project and I just wonder if you could share maybe the first time you remember being rejected and how that felt, to sort of get us in the mood for this conversation.
Speaker 1:Wow, I have to think about that because I think that, especially being an independent casting person, and being an actor are very similar, because we really do put our hearts and souls on the line with every project and there's always the question of what makes you the right person to do that job. And I think so much of it is visceral that sometimes we could think we're the best, but there's so many, as I said before, there's so many things at play. I'm trying to think of the first time I was rejected from a job because I try not to live in that world.
Speaker 1:I don't like to live in that world because it just makes me too sad and then it doesn't make me sort of value the things that are working, because I need to really think about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, that's a lesson. That's a lesson in itself. I think, stephanie and I also know you're someone who just followed your passion and you believed that casting was the right fit for you. I know you tried so many different elements of this business which is also an important lesson for anybody out there just to get those, those viewpoints. But I thought it was so cool that you weren't per se trained by anyone. You eventually went to someone for advice, but you just had that mission and you didn't really look back, and that might be part of it too. It's like you just knew this was yours and you were going to carve your own path, even if no one had walked that before.
Speaker 1:Well, it was interesting. I was just going to say I think it was more. I wasn't afraid to give it a try because I didn't know any better. So in a sense there were no. There were no. It's like there was no critic in me to tell me.
Speaker 1:I couldn't do this because I didn't know what I could or couldn't do. I just knew that I had enough accumulated knowledge to forge my own path in it, and if it wasn't going to work then I guess I wouldn't still be doing it. But I think that was part of what worked for me at that time. That it was. We all got to create whatever our own guardrails were when we were all coming up.
Speaker 2:The group of us. That came up at that time in casting to where we are now, such a special group. I think there needs to be a mini series or a documentary on it after going into the audience.
Speaker 1:It would be very colorful, that's for sure, I think so let's make it happen.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm just picturing a bowling alley now with the guardrails. I'm like I need those bumpers. Come on, let's do it. But it's very similar. As an actor, I feel like we start out and we have this dream and it's playtime. It's fun, you're on the playground, you're doing make believe, and then you get all these bits of information and that's something I've wrangled with. It's almost like getting back to that childlike innocence where you're not remembering what this casting person said, what this director said, what this other actor friend said, and sort of just coming from yourself. And that leads into an interesting part of rejection. Right, I think it kind of starts and ends with self-rejection and I know all too well if I spiral and reject myself first, I have no shot. So do you see that? Do you think actors unintentionally reject themselves before they even walk into the room or start a self-tape?
Speaker 1:So interesting. Well, I think sometimes what happens is an actor could get invited to an audition by a casting person or whomever's dealing with that particular project, and they think there is no way this role is right for me.
Speaker 1:And they may turn it down because of that. But what I think is our special Spidey skill is that sometimes we see something in actors that even you don't see in yourself, and that's what's exciting about what we do that it's not always about the obvious but about the other things you have to offer that maybe you haven't tried yet, but we feel confident are this is the time to try it.
Speaker 2:That's a quote right there. It's not always about the obvious. I like that, not always about the obvious. You know it's funny. Having been auditioning for a while, I feel like I've built up the callous of rejection. So thinking about it today is like ripping open the wound, as you were saying before, and I don't totally think about it anymore. It just becomes a part of the gig. I wonder how do you approach rejecting someone that maybe really got close to the gig? Because usually it's radio silence, right. But I assume there's occasions where you call up a friend or you have to sort of deal with that.
Speaker 1:Well, going back to that word rejection. I don't like that word, because I guess what it means to me is it does feel a lot like slamming a door in somebody's face, and I think that it takes away the is. It does feel a lot like slamming a door in somebody's face and I think that it takes away the acknowledgement that what an actor does when they come into an audition room is really difficult and you're putting your soul on the line every time you come into the room.
Speaker 1:So I just feel to me the way I process the word is it's a very harsh word. So that's why, although in reality, it's true, not every actor will get every job they go in for To go back to what I said earlier, I like to think that it's an opportunity for us to see what they have to offer and the many ways it could be put to good use, not just for that project at that time. So I know it sounds very Pollyanna-ish to say that.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:But I truly believe it and I practice it and I know my colleagues do too. But I know, when you have your rent to pay and you're excited about the job and you think you're the perfect person for it, and then it doesn't go your way, how could you feel anything but tremendously disappointed?
Speaker 1:and feel like what's the point? And I guess the point is that you got there when so many people didn't get in that room and you met so many people or one person who maybe you didn't know before. And I have a friend who used to say, or who continues to say, that for every no it gets you closer to a yes.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I like thinking that way, because I think it's true. You get the no's out of the way, so when the yeses happen, it's that much sweeter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I've had the great fortune I don't know why I'm saying this, because it always sounds so name dropping, but of interviewing Carol Burnett once and she said I know I did black out Stephanie.
Speaker 2:I totally blacked out. She said I just listened to her talk the whole time. I barely had any questions. I was like just go. And she actually was the opposite. I had so many questions but I just wanted to listen to her and she said she'll never forget one of her first auditions, which was almost exactly that. You know she felt that sort of rejection, but what let her get through it was remembering that her friend got the job, even though it wasn't really her quote unquote friend. And she just said to herself this isn't my time, this is their time. You know, this is their time and then one day it will be my time. I wonder, from then till now, I guess Overall, do you think the industry has gotten better or worse at helping actors deal with the sense of rejection or sort of being prepared for that? I mean, I feel like people do talk about it a bit more now. I think there's more transparency now.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think that there's more dialogue between actors and casting people. Now, I think it's not. I just think that there's a more open communication, or I like to think there's more open communication.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think it's less mysterious.
Speaker 2:What about social media? Because I feel like, in the sense that it's kind of twofold right, because you can either immediately see sometimes someone else booked it and you just sent your tape in, maybe yesterday, and then you see someone posting about it, or you can see people auditioning for it in real time, even if they're just posting their slate bloopers or something you sort of know their type, and that they're probably auditioning for that. So in this world where now it's more in our face, I don't know, I feel like there's something to be said for that also being a little bit hard.
Speaker 1:I think yeah, I was gonna say I that makes me uncomfortable, because then it's hard for you to be in your head for what you're doing, because you're so busy seeing what other people are doing and that to me is a little bit of a form of self-sabotage, so I don't see that as being a productive use of time or of protecting yourself from disappointment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And comparison.
Speaker 2:I don't know what is it. Comparison is the thief of joy, my nanny says.
Speaker 1:That's really good. I think that's a good phrase to use too.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, looking at other phrases, you know some rejection myths I think we can bust here today. Oh, let's hear. It's so hard not to take things personally, but can you just shed some light for our listeners? It kind of runs the gamut. We have people just starting out, people you know very well into the career that we've heard from. So, in general, why is rejection almost never personal? I know this is a big question, but I would love to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 1:Well, it's so hard in a business. That's so personal. Yet it's a business. And I think that's the hard part, because when you stop caring, like what does that mean about your emotional accessibility for doing the work you do? So I think it's how do you make peace with that feeling and make it not take over the experience, but it's an aspect of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Making peace. I think that anything you're looking forward to or hoping for and it doesn't happen in the way you hope it happens unless it changes and becomes something even better than you thought would happen of course it's going to be disappointment there, but I think that the trick is how do you acknowledge the disappointment and then find a way to move on from it to create something else.
Speaker 2:You know we love tangible things on here, and I once heard an actor say that their tangible way of processing even preemptively rejection is just to rip the sides up and recycle them when they're done. And just the act of physically ripping it up and throwing them away it became a ritual of them not thinking about it anymore.
Speaker 1:I think that's great, Except if they get called back. That's a bummer.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know I have every time I recycle, literally anytime I print something out and recycle it. That's when it's like booking a vacation, it's like that's when you know you're going to get the call back in.
Speaker 1:So I think, always book vacations for sure. Yeah, that's true, as long as they're refundable.
Speaker 2:This is sponsored by JetBlue.
Speaker 1:Indeed, it's interesting that you know we're talking about rejection, because it really is a fact of our profession.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I wonder how many professions out there really is just a part of the day-to-day. I don't think as many as with what we do, and I think that's what makes us all kind of special in our way, because we've almost put ourselves in the line of it and yet we're still doing it.
Speaker 2:No, I think you're so right. I mean, I think anybody creative in this industry is a special magical human and I know that in any line of work I mean every human there's small rejections every day, right Even just asking someone to hang out and they can't. That's sort of a small quote unquote rejection. But I look at friends who go in for quote unquote muggle job interviews and it's like they're so nervous and they're going on these interviews and I'm like, wow, I get a couple of quote unquote interviews a week or we have a couple a day sometimes and we're just not. You know, I think, because it becomes very ingrained in us. You know we're not.
Speaker 1:It's like second nature in some ways, but yet we still get excited as though it's the first time and I think that's what I love is is that you could still get excited about it and still be hopeful. And it's like Vegas maybe you'll hit the jackpot, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, speaking of the jackpot, I love when you talk about this being similar to Vegas and I'm going to pull down a slot machine right now and ask you okay, can you share a story? And if you can't, I'm sure this has happened a lot. If you can't think of one on the spot, it's OK. I have a back question. I would love an example of a time an actor came in, was absolutely brilliant, but just not quite a right fit for the role. I also imagine, having been a reader for different casting offices, that I learned so much that was like an education itself. Casting offices that I learned so much that was like an education itself. I would see these people that you know maybe want a Tony the season before, come in and just be good, but totally not the tone, not right for the project. Have you had those instances, too, where even maybe a small note has changed things? Anything come to mind?
Speaker 1:just surrounding that big things, anything come to mind just surrounding that big life. Well, I'm thinking of recently. We were casting a very difficult play where the two actors in it were supposed to resemble each other enough that they could be we could believe them as siblings, maybe even twins, and it was so much more than just how terrific the actor was.
Speaker 1:It was also could we believe that relationship with each other, and that was hard, and that was. It of course had to do with their acting ability, but it also had to do with the pairing of them and how they could work together. So that was so out of their hands. And so, in the moment of the material, and trusting the other person and how they work together, I guess, what about casting someone over the years after they didn't get a role?
Speaker 2:Can you give an example of that sort of path, of how maybe you had to oh, it's so fun.
Speaker 1:I love when that happens. Yeah, no, and I think that's just really about they get close, they get close, they get close, they get frustrated, they get frustrated, they get frustrated. But they know that my team and I really love them and believe in them, and they know that it's just about like it wasn't the moment, but we're both working together to make it the moment.
Speaker 1:And then it happens and then it's great because it seems like you never had the struggle before or the rejection before, like it was just waiting for this moment to happen.
Speaker 2:It's like childbirth.
Speaker 1:That's a good time to wait. I don't know if it's quite as painful, oh, okay, yeah, I mean I can't really speak to that.
Speaker 2:I guess I can only channel it from a. Meisner technique no. What's a common misinterpretation actors have when they don't hear back from casting?
Speaker 1:I'm sure you get this question a lot. Well, but I think more often than not they don't hear back from casting because we've had to move on and they've had to move on. And sometimes an agent will call bad feedback, but often not, and I think it's just everybody has sort of like that has ended and now we have to go on to whatever the next thing is. But I think for the actor to go back to what we were saying before. It's that sense of the experience hasn't been completed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, completing the circle. Well, sometimes you hear about people that get to complete it in this way of they're rejected, like I recently spoke with Erica Henningsen, who was rejected from Mean Girls on Broadway and then later got called back in because they moved some puzzle pieces around and then rejection sort of freed her. She just she cared, but she didn't care so much that she really needed it, I guess, and that allowed her to book the job. I mean, I don't want to put words in her mouth. She's an awesome, talented soul and I wonder if I mean I'm sure you must have seen that before. It's sort of like.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you make peace and become a little more relaxed, because you're like well, I didn't get the first time, who knows what they're looking for now, so they call me back Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do a cartwheel and enter the room. No, that's too much, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think it. I would suspect it is more freeing because it's not the same pressure, maybe, but the fact that they got invited back also means they were liked enough to still want to see them again.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 1:And just getting called in is a win.
Speaker 2:Especially in these times, I feel like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these times are very strange, very strange for all of us and, as an artist, even more so, because we're all so sensitive to whatever's going on out there. It's not a great time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in the TV film landscape, I know things are even slower right now. Oh, I know, I mean in the Broadway world. I think it all trickles down because now we have these huge stars on Broadway, which maybe is good for the box office, but maybe the everyday actor doesn't necessarily get the shot, I know.
Speaker 1:Well, I've been thinking a lot about that because it's so disappointing to look at like it is about box office and opportunities, but it's also like wait, you guys could be doing these feature films Give us our lane Like let us have our part of the pie. So I see that type of disappointment. I don't see it as rejection as much as tremendous disappointment. But also it's the reshifting, yet again, which seems to happen so often in our profession Things keep shifting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which keeps it exciting. Oh, yes, it's exciting and we recognize how hard this can be. And now I'm trying not to use the word rejection, I like extremely disappointed, sort of like you just said. But we can even just call it a no and I wonder do you have any advice or tangible tips on how to process a no? Like you know, you didn't get it and maybe your heart was set on it. What are some things it could?
Speaker 1:be. Well, I think that it's okay to feel bad and I think that sometimes we're like, no, I shouldn't feel bad, but I think that it's okay, like it's okay to be disappointed and it's okay to feel like that really sucks, but then it's what you do after that, or in or sort of in conjunction with that, is it like I'm really hooked on Fourth Wing right now?
Speaker 1:It's a really good book that has nothing to do with what we do, and it's really great to take my mind off all the other things going on and I think that sometimes productive distraction is a really good thing too. Or take yourself out to see a really good movie or just something that like just be kind to yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Well, you know, I love that. And productive distraction Wow, that's a great phrase that you strung together there. I like that too, and you're also like probably the 10th person that's mentioned fourth wing, so I probably need to read this. It's like fantasy, right?
Speaker 1:It is, it is.
Speaker 2:I'm a big fantasy buff, so I feel like I would love it, oh gosh.
Speaker 1:I luckily had the second one all ready to jump into and I've already started it. I finished the first one on Monday and here we are into the second.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I love it Okay, I'll give you one House on the Cerulean Sea, if you haven't read.
Speaker 1:Okay, he'll send it to me after, because I'm not writing it.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll send it to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll probably thing that can be really vital is community right and I feel like you are a community maker as a person and professionally, just having seen you in person and the way you treat people, but then also you quite literally cast people and build casts and bring them together. What are your thoughts on folks I guess A finding their community, on folks I guess A finding their community and then B, also having the vulnerability to be honest about quote unquote rejection, because I feel like we all hear the people saying, oh, I got close to this, I got a callback for this. But people, it can get like a little competitive, even between friends.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally Well. That's like I remember when I was just starting out and I was socializing with a lot of actors and we'd all be at parties together. And the party was all about what people were going in for and what they were doing, and it was less about just having a conversation with each other. Glad you're talking about this subject matter today because I think it is such a universal experience and I think sometimes rejection can come. We could feel embarrassed by rejection.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the reason why, if you feel in a safe space with people who you trust, that talking about it you get to realize just how universal it is, and then you do share experiences and then, through sharing those experiences, you make discoveries, because maybe you both went in for the same role and you didn't know you went in for the same role and maybe you had a similar experience. Maybe it was an amazing room, but you just felt off your game. Or maybe it wasn't an amazing room, maybe it felt like something wasn't right there, and then you realize it wasn't about you, but there were other things going on, and sometimes it's just about confirming something, or sometimes it's about a discovery, or sometimes it's just about well, it just was a bad day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's so helpful. I mean, one of my favorite things to do is when I get something. And I've also learned, like what you said before if something comes to you that maybe you don't think you're right for, just do it, because someone sees something or you know it's a chance to build a relationship. But I also love to. Then, even if I do it and feel like I'm not going to get it, I love to pass it along to people that I think it's perfect for. And I think, if we're all pretending that we're the right person and we just didn't get it because you know so-and-so, knew so-and-so and it was their son and whatever you know, you'll also cut off the opportunity to then help the people around you. Like, if we have these honest conversations, sometimes we can, you know, help, uplift a friend, and that's what is.
Speaker 1:Totally Well. It's so funny because I was just thinking yesterday I was in the elevator of where I work and I was heading out for the night and I see that this guy comes in and he looks at me with a huge smile and he wants to say something and I'm like, do we know each other? And he goes well, I auditioned for you a really long time ago and I bombed and I'm like, oh, I don't remember that he goes. Well, I don't, I'm not an actor anymore, but you know you were. He was saying very nice things, but it was the point of the story is I don't remember that he bombed. I knew I knew him, but he hadn't been in my room in over 20 years and now he was doing something he really, really loved and and he had gone in recently to audition for something and he realized that it wasn't acting, wasn't really for him anymore, but it was a.
Speaker 1:It was kind of a funny conversation to have in terms of he remembered this moment where it didn't go a particular way yeah but that wasn't my connection with him at all, and sometimes I think, the person who's experienced experiencing it has a much more difficult time with it than maybe the rest of us deter them from bringing you in again.
Speaker 2:They understand that you maybe have X amount of auditions in a day, if you're lucky, that you have a day job whatever, and that maybe you psyched yourself out, whatever it is. I think there's a lot of forgiveness in this industry that we forget about, like we're all empathetic.
Speaker 1:Totally, and that's a nice change, I think too. I think that's come over time too. The humanity of what we all do is, and I think, bringing us all together in that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Everybody has bad days. Everybody has circumstances that sometimes make us not at the top of our game, but that doesn't define who we are.
Speaker 2:I am going to sing Miley Cyrus to you right now.
Speaker 1:No, I want to sing Hannah Montana.
Speaker 2:Everybody makes mistakes, everybody has those days. Do you remember Hannah Montana?
Speaker 1:Oh, very well.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's where I got it from, by osmosis. I love that. Well, we're going to get the best of both worlds right now as we dive further into community. You know, while we're in the community, subject of the community, I would love to share some questions from our casting networks.
Speaker 2:folks we asked for some cues for you and we got a ton actually. And some were sort of just like for some cues for you and we got a ton actually. And some were sort of just like why am I not being cast? It wasn't at you, it was just in general, but I weeded through and I found some of the general ones. So if you hear your question, it was probably asked multiple times and I'm sorry if I don't read your name, but there were a lot and I thank you for submitting them. So one we got is from at Jake, underscore S 30. How do you know if a role is right for you to audition for? And this is sort of we sort of touched on this, but what are your thoughts for Jake?
Speaker 1:Hi Jake, I think that, well, part of it is if it excites you and if you go I think I know my way into this I think that's a great way or if it scares you a little because it excites you, but you've never done something like that, but you want to give it a try.
Speaker 2:I love that. What about as far as the breakdown and reading it? If you're not exactly like the breakdown, should you let that deter you? Well, if you've been invited in.
Speaker 1:there's a reason that the breakdown only tells you so much, and also during the course of casting, that breakdown can become theoretical and become just the beginning of a bigger picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look at how many times a gender's changed or whatever's changed about a role, that's a great reminder. So we have another question from Lindsay Waller. Waller, what up, what does—sorry, I need to calm down. It's because I'm getting so hot in here my AC.
Speaker 1:I need AC. Help me, I'm melting.
Speaker 2:What does just not what we're looking for really mean?
Speaker 1:Oof, that hurts.
Speaker 2:Lindsay, yes.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, Lindsay, that hurts. It's whatever their imaginations have created. It's whatever their imaginations have created that when you came into the room didn't fit what their imaginations were yearning for, and that feels so personal. And yet it's really about the picture that they have in their minds.
Speaker 2:Yes, aka, don't translate it to you. Suck, give yourself a break and try. I know it's. I personally I know it's so hard. We have another question and then I'll probably sprinkle a few more in as we go, but we have one and I hope I say this right from at Jacob Robichoux Okay, probably didn't say it right. Is it good to take smaller background roles or gigs between not working and auditioning?
Speaker 1:I think any work is work that if it feeds your soul, in your bank account and you feel good doing it yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that and that'll help you stay motivated. That's something we're going to get into in a moment.
Speaker 1:And you never know if you're going to get upgraded.
Speaker 2:True, that happened to me actually. I did background work and I ended up with one line on an ABC pilot, and you know what that's sometimes how you can get your entry into the union. It's a good point, it really does happen. So the word I saw over and over again when we asked for questions on rejection was feedback, and you touched on this a bit. Every actor wants feedback. We know that it's not always possible casting you beautiful people maybe have three people in an office sometimes, and it's just not possible with hundreds and hundreds of actors. When the people want to know why they're being rejected too, which I obviously totally understand do you get? I mean, does it hurt to ask for feedback? What sort of? What are your thoughts on feedback Like? Will you give it? If you want to give it, should?
Speaker 1:we just wait. It's so hard to say, because then you can open yourself up to getting a lot of inquiries and we just don't have the ability to do that. I think the feedback is when you keep getting invited back into an office. The feedback is we really think you're pretty special, but we just haven't found the right project for you to be hired for yet. I think that's the feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So look at the action, not necessarily the words, which I think helps in life too, because if you have someone you're hanging out with and maybe they're saying things that are like weird, like they're there, they're showing up for you. Anyway, I'm getting personal. A helpful tool for me is reframing rejection, and we've sort of touched on this here. I love the phrase. My nanny always says this too rejection is protection. It wasn't meant for me, but for someone else, so we can celebrate the person it's meant for. How do you suggest actors reframe rejection if they're looking to have a sustainable career, because the rejection is never going to end?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's true. I think it's. How do you turn it into another opportunity?
Speaker 1:So, okay, this job didn't work out for me, but what else is out there right now that I'm really interested in? How can I find out about getting that other appointment? Or how can I read that play for something that's coming up soon. So I'm really well prepared so I could show up to that open call, if there's an open call for something. So I think it's always looking at the next thing ahead of you instead of looking behind you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that because then you might trip. Yes, what are your thoughts on actors following up with you after not booking something? I know we just went down the feedback, I think a note is always lovely.
Speaker 1:I think a note always keeps one fresh.
Speaker 2:You know, and I know you can't answer every email, but I know that you're very good at it as well, so that's a nice little tidbit right there. We talked about feedback. That's a similar thing. All right, let's dive into the motivation pool. You know I'm getting hot in here. I need to take a little dip. You see so many actors walking through your doors. What traits stand out in those who stay resilient, sort of over the long haul?
Speaker 1:You know, the ones who come in still excited about doing the work and have done their homework and are really well prepared and know what the project is they're going in for. I know it sounds silly, but sometimes they come in for the job but they don't know the dates or when it's happening, or they take for granted certain things like oh, I have a wedding and you have an understudy, right. Well, guess what? We don't have an understudy and no, you can't go to that wedding if you're going to book the job.
Speaker 1:So, but also, I think, just like really coming in well prepared, I had somebody recently come in for a job and they had a fair amount of time to prepare for it and they read their sides, they prepared their sides and they they read on either side of their sides the piece, but they didn't read the entire play and that was really disappointing because they had the time to do it, meaning we gave them a length of time in which they can and I know everybody's busy and has to support themselves, but it was really disappointing that they hadn't done the full amount of or you know, at least don't tell me you haven't read it oh yeah, no, don't say it and don't tell my client, because you know we get blamed for it, even if they did have the material so you know.
Speaker 2:So what a gift to get it like you don't always even get the full script or the play or whatever it is. So if you do get it, I mean at least at least read the scenes your character's in, I guess, if you don't have time to really read the full thing, but it's such a gift to get the full story. And I've heard you also say, which I think is such great advice be prepared in the sense with your business brain. So look up the theater, look up the producers, look up the network that it's on and see. You know you can get a lot of information from that, as far as tone and your values might not align with that. So see if you even want to do it right.
Speaker 1:Totally, absolutely no. I think that's really important. Hence another reason to read the entire piece.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think that's a great point. Going back to what? If you don't think it's something that's right for you and that's where I think being true to yourself and your values is very important and if it's not, if it doesn't align with where you are and you don't feel comfortable, it's okay, that's really okay. I'd rather you not go in for it then.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it's subjective, but are you okay with actors passing on things overall? Is it like if they pass on everything, then maybe that raises a red flag?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there are times when people will pass. It's not the right opportunity or they don't feel it's the right fit for them. I get it. That happens at times. Or the salary doesn't align with where they need to be right now in their lives. That happens.
Speaker 2:Well, what else happens? Is we get more questions from our wonderful cast and networks community and I stuck one in here about motivation just because I wanted to get into this area first, something we got a couple times. This is from our friend, officially biener schnitzel, at biener schnitzel, which is a great, honestly great username, might take it wonder how do you stay motivated when things are really slow?
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, I try to remind myself that it's not the end of my career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no catastrophizing.
Speaker 1:No, but I think sometimes we're all you know. When it's slow, we all sort of wonder what the heck am I doing? I know so. Then something always seems to come around, and it could be a reading or a great conversation, or I go take myself out to a movie or a play and that gets me going again.
Speaker 2:I love that Watch what comes into the void. I think being bored also has gotten very overrated. I think people don't.
Speaker 1:Who has time to be bored?
Speaker 2:That's what I mean. Nobody wants to be bored anymore, and I feel like when I was a little kid, being bored is what made me get dressed up and go outside and put on a show. Being bored is what made me run into a friend's backyard, like I think when we're bored now, we pick up our phones.
Speaker 1:I think you're right, I think you're right. There's no quiet, there's never, any quiet to just be with your brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's when things I don't know you could write a play. I think there's a lot of things you could do for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great yeah. I love going to libraries. I've got to tell you. I really have been trying to go to different libraries in the city just to sort of discover places I haven't been to before.
Speaker 2:Do you have a favorite library?
Speaker 1:Well, I love Lincoln Center.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, the Lincoln.
Speaker 1:Center Library for the Performing Arts is great. But then there's a great old library I'm forgetting the name of it down in the East Village. It's on, I think, third Avenue, between St Mark's and 9th, and it's just a beautiful, beautiful old library.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm going to have to check that out and I will also tell you some good libraries when we go offline, oh, and then the 42nd Street.
Speaker 1:One is extraordinary, the big one, oh yes, oh my gosh, yes, that was beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yes, I will. I love that. I'm such a library book nerd too. We realized we're very flammable people when we moved, because all we have are books and candles.
Speaker 1:So yeah, oh, that's good, I think so. Just don't light a fire.
Speaker 2:Okay, so something, thank you. Something I'm curious about are the actors who are maybe resilient. They feel like they, you know, stay motivated for the most part and they're lucky to get a lot of auditions, but they're just not in sort of like the always booking realm quite yet and they're feeling a little fatigued. What's your advice on staying in there? Because, like we said, just getting called in is a win, but if you're constantly not booking, there's also that voice in the back of your head.
Speaker 1:I think go take a class. Maybe it's an improv class, Maybe you just need to get back into scene study and freshen up a bit. You know, find a great teacher who inspires you and expand your community too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that Because you can also just learn from friends reading shows together. Totally Well speaking of not winning the job but maybe winning the room?
Speaker 1:is there a green flag you look for in actors to stay on your radar? You know when you're you're not necessarily rejecting them. I know we're going to cancel the word rejection here today, but you're not hiring for them for that job. So what kind of keeps someone on your radar? I guess, besides talent, besides the obvious, I think we had a reader not that long ago who was just so smart and on her game that we started bringing her in for things. We hadn't known her before and our client had introduced us to her and she was just so good and then started booking pretty consistently with us, which is great.
Speaker 1:But I think that was a case where it was really great to get to know somebody well and see, just get a sense of what they shine doing and their ease at being in situations where they had a pivot, and that was a really great way to get to know them and I'd say that's happened a few times.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. Do you have any other practical tips for staying motivated? I know you said you'll change the energy by going to a library or going to the movies, which that's such wonderful advice, but I wonder if there's anything else before we sort of close out the motivational end of this conversation.
Speaker 1:Gee, I have to think about it because it changes all the time. It could be. Is this for me or for other people?
Speaker 2:I think it can come from you, and then it will be you.
Speaker 1:Sorry it's not time, no, please. But it's interesting because I think, in terms of staying motivated, I don't it could be. I just feel like it's like you change lanes for a moment. Maybe it's not. It's not preparing for an audition day in and day out, it's not being surrounded by by doing that thing, but it it is through like a little bit of of occupying your brain with something else to then get back on track.
Speaker 1:I and I know I've said that but I really think that sometimes helps with motivation too, because if you're constantly, you know, climbing up the mountain, you get tired after a while and you need to take breaks along the way, and I think that our profession can feel a lot like a task where we go up, up, up, and then we go back, and then how do we get further up and then we go back. So I think that you need to take breaks and get recharged.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great visual. I like that a lot, because you can't give from an empty cup.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think too there's something to be said for my shout out to my manager. She once said go get on the train that's pulling into the station and I have ADHD. So every day, sort of if I like, if I in the moment, and like, oh, I said I would rehearse my lines at 4pm, but at 4pm it comes and I'm like I really just want to go for a walk right now. Sort of it's okay to follow what you want and because sometimes you know you could fake it till you make it, but it might take an extra hour to then get in the vibe of actually rehearsing or you can do what you want to do and then, sort of like I don't know, let the other things come in when they come in, unless you're on a time crunch, obviously.
Speaker 1:Well then, yeah, then you have to be a little more disciplined.
Speaker 2:Well, speaking of disciplined you, here's another transition. You're so disciplined because you are distinguished and at such a wonderful point in your career. But I wonder, looking back now, with all you've accomplished, what does success mean to you? We've defined sort of quote, unquote, rejection, but what do you think success really means in the arts?
Speaker 1:Oh geez, I think if somebody's still doing it, then that's successful and it could be. It could be as a profession or it could be, just because of the love of it, I think. I think success is whatever anyone creates it to be, and not what they not measuring themselves against anyone else but themselves. You're brilliant.
Speaker 2:I've done a lot of thinking about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that, I love that so much. Yeah, no, I love that, I love that so much. And I'm going to read even more fun little calendar ripoff quotes from you with our beautiful game segment Casting Keywords. I think I might have're very sensitive all around to the word rejection because I think, especially with younger talent, it is triggering. But that's how we built the callus, so let's do this. Sorry, that sounded callous. I'll say a word or a phrase from our work so something commonly found in casting and you just respond with the first piece of tangible advice that pops into your head. Okay, so sort of like word association, but more advice driven. Okay, we're going to start out with what auditions start with Slate.
Speaker 1:Oh, so bring yourself to the slate. You know, at least in my world, it's the best thing I'm going to get about seeing you. I can't see you in the room. If you're slating, it means you're taping from somewhere else, so I'd love to have a spark of who you are.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that and already I know I'm like this is a flash round, but everybody knows I always go on tangents. I meant to ask you before I pinned this sort of in my mind when you had said we were talking about everybody just coming in and sort of leading with their resume versus who they are. I'm guessing that when an actor comes into the room, I mean maybe they could do this on a live Zoom audition with you as well. I hope they wouldn't maybe do it in a slate, but you'd probably rather see them as a human versus them saying oh yeah, I just got back from tour. I just you know, am I correct?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, totally Lead with your humanity.
Speaker 2:Lead with humanity, and the same is said with script analysis.
Speaker 1:Oh boy, yeah, well, that goes back to what we were saying about preparation, preparation.
Speaker 2:So do it.
Speaker 1:Definitely do it.
Speaker 2:Overall self-tape tip.
Speaker 1:Don't make yourself crazy.
Speaker 2:I love that. I'm going to take that with me as I go, because you could just keep taping and taping.
Speaker 1:It's never going to be perfect, but you know, chances are the earlier versions of your tape will be better than the later ones.
Speaker 2:More sort of like real and have that energy that's not tired. We talk about that a lot in here too, right, everybody? We're going to max at five. We're going to aim for five takes. Don't let yourself go into like the 20s or 30s.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't want that for you.
Speaker 2:Making a choice.
Speaker 1:Tell me more about what you mean by that.
Speaker 2:I feel like we hear make a choice a lot as a direction, and I've asked a lot of casting folks this and the answers are similar but I think everyone doesn't realize. Maybe they have a different meaning of that. So I would love to know your meaning.
Speaker 1:I think how I interpret, make a choice is when you come into the room, be empowered with going back to script interpretation. Be empowered that your interpretation is the right way for you to come into the room.
Speaker 2:I really love that.
Speaker 1:So that's your choice.
Speaker 2:And see that's actually different from all the other ones too, which is beautiful. All of them are similar but different, so take that with you, everybody. Audition attire.
Speaker 1:What does that mean? I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2:In the sense of attire your wardrobe.
Speaker 1:Oh, attire, I'm thinking attire.
Speaker 2:Roll in on one tire. Sorry, this is how we roll Audition attire.
Speaker 1:Don't upstage yourself. Wear clothes that maybe support what you're going in for, but don't make it to the point that I'm only focused on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you should wear the clothes, not the clothes Exactly. The clothes shouldn't wear you Exactly. I'll land that play Director sessions.
Speaker 1:Oh well, those are important and bring your A game.
Speaker 2:I like that Improv in auditions.
Speaker 1:Oh, be selective, Don't. If you're a playwright, I think you have to be very careful with improv in sessions and rewriting things if it's not invited. So, I think if you've been given text to do, do the text. If there's something where you're invited to improv within the context of it, have a good time.
Speaker 2:I love that. Okay, and the last one I'll say here is not psyching yourself out, so not getting in your own way.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, there's a wonderful teacher author named Sharon Salzberg who says that when the critic shows up in you.
Speaker 2:She, I think, named hers Edith, that she?
Speaker 1:invites her out to tea and leaves her at the cafe to get her tea work, and I feel like like with um, not you know, like not sucking yourself out, or sucking yourself out like just when that critic comes into your head. Just tell it it could, it could step aside for a little bit so you could get your work done.
Speaker 2:I love that. Acknowledge it and then don't put any more energy in it. They can deal with the barista, that's so great exactly, thank you.
Speaker 2:Okay, you win the game. I don't know what you win, you just win for being great and I know I got to let you go and I would really just appreciate it if we could end our time together by you sharing a gotten and a given. So we end every episode by getting our guests gotten, which is the best piece of advice they've gotten in this industry that they feel like they took with them, and the given is the best piece they now have to give. So if we could start with your gotten, stephanie, that would be wonderful.
Speaker 1:I think it was from my dad, actually. Who who reminded me? Well, it goes back to what we were saying about, you know, sort of measuring yourself up against other people. And why does this person have this opportunity, why they have that opportunity, why didn't I get this or why don't I have that? And it was just, everything happens in its own time and he just really reminded me to just keep doing what I was doing and I'd find my way.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's, that's you know what has been very helpful. Yeah, and I guess that's also advice that I would pass on, which is so easy to compare yourself to others and wonder why things aren't happening the way you want them to happen or envision them happening, and and you, we all have our own paths and it all happens the way it's going to happen to the younger audience members, but I mentioned that you do so much wonderful work with the Jimmys for our young artists, specifically our high school musical theater performers.
Speaker 2:Is there a piece of advice you feel like you give in those teachings that you would like to share with listeners, people maybe?
Speaker 1:just starting out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess listeners that might be that age, yeah, well, I think that it's. There seems to be this sense that time is going so fast and you have to get wherever that place is to get to be super famous, and I think there's a lot of road to travel before you get to that point. And, and I just think, have a great time learning and and and and having great adventures, and don't worry so much.
Speaker 2:I love that. I'm going to take that with me just in life, because if you're chasing fame, you're going to always be chasing. Let's be real, you know that is not guaranteed, so sort of just do what you love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that the trap of chasing fame is when is enough enough and when have you really gotten there? And I think the answer is you never really feel like you've had enough or gotten there.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like I got there with you. I got so much wonderful advice. Stephanie, just to you know, bookend this with another cheesy transition. I feel so grateful that we have you in this industry as a leader and someone we can look up to, because not only are you extremely knowledgeable and open and vulnerable with sharing all that knowledge, but you're just such a kind-hearted soul. So thank you for being that way and being yourself.
Speaker 1:Robert, I feel the same about you and I'm really glad you're in my life. Thank you, oh, you're so sweet Thanks for this opportunity. Thank you,
