How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
Actor Networking that Feels Authentic & Builds Community with CD Erica Jensen
Explore the ins and outs of actor networking with award-winning Casting Director Erica Jensen (Dickinson). The Calleri Jensen Davis-partner chats with host Robert Peterpaul about tangibles ways how actors can create meaningful industry connections through authentic interactions and genuine curiosity.
This episode covers:
• Digital first impressions and why they matter.
• Authentic actor networking in an oversaturated industry.
• Tangible ways of taking the pressure off, like focusing on building community, not just credits.
• What you can never go wrong by doing in the long game.
This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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Hi, my name is Erica Jensen. I am five feet four inches. I like to say five, five, but I think it's actually five four and I am Layla's mom Proud to be Layla's mom. She's starting high school this fall and this is how we roll.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. Shout out, layla. That was beautiful.
Speaker 2:When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to how we Roll, a podcast for actors by Casting Networks. There's that old Hollywood adage it's all about who you know. We've all been to parties and events where we feel like we want to put our best foot forward so that we can well know people. Today, we break all of this down in an unintimidating way. Hi, actors, it's your friend, robert Peter Paul, bringing you a discussion on building your own uplifting and motivating network as an actor. To discuss this we have an award-winning casting director and kind soul, erika Jensen.
Speaker 2:Erika Jensen is one-third of Caleri Casting, with 20 years of experience across mediums. She's cast some of your favorite TV shows like Dickinson on Apple and Broadway shows like the recent Tony winner Purpose. Erica teaches at the New School, mentors at Brown slash, trinity, rep and co-runs she Collective, a women-only acting studio. Originally from Tampa, she lives in Brooklyn with her daughter and is a proud member of the Casting Society of America. Erica enjoys spending time with her dog, running marathons, watching TV and yoga. I included that last bit because, as you'll hear from Erica, one of the keys to unlocking networking is to see people as well. People If you lead with humanity, I don't think you can go wrong. Speaking of friend, I appreciate you for being a part of our podcast network here. Please follow our social channels at Casting Networks and at Rob Peterpaul to connect and submit your hows to be answered in a future episode. We really want this to be a community for actors. Now here's how we roll with authentic networking, featuring casting director Erica Jensen. Yay Well, hello, erica, welcome to how we Roll.
Speaker 1:Hi, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2:It is such a joy to have you. I've had the privilege of meeting your partners, but I've never met you and I've heard the most wonderful things.
Speaker 1:So very grateful that you're here. Yes, thank you so much. Yes, I love my partners. James Cleary and Paul Davis Love them.
Speaker 2:That's good, that's very good. And you know, before we dive into the wonderful world of finding partners that you love and people that you love in this industry aka networking you began your career earning an MFA in acting. I don't need to tell you that, and I just wanted to set the scene here. How would you say? Having that perspective as an actor still kind of shapes the work you do today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think when training as an actor gives me a lot of, I think, empathy for what actors, how they have to move through the world, you know, just being and having come from that kind of training and background, the vulnerability that you experience sort of like constantly as an actor is something that I that I again reading so many plays, being trained in Shakespeare, it just makes me better at my job as a casting director because I know how to read a play, I know how to you know.
Speaker 1:I know how to hopefully, you know guide somebody through a scene, if I need to. I understand how to, like, map out Shakespeare, for example, and so there's just like there's also some practical things that I just know how to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Having that kind of training that go beyond performing, yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:You know, I think one of the greatest lessons I learned on the other side as an actor has been being a reader, because you sort of get the glimpse into casting and how it's not as personal as you might think, even though it's you. It's personal, but it's not personal. It's such a weird thing, and so I think it's wonderful when casting directors have that. I wonder how it applies to today's topic Everyone trigger warning. I'm going to say the word networking. I think it gives some of us hives, erica.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Maybe we could call it community building or just relationship building yeah. I think it's important, no matter what our job is in this wild life, but especially in this people-driven business. So to start and I know it might sound like an obvious question I just wonder for you what do you think the purpose of networking is?
Speaker 1:Well, I like what you said, like reframing it as community building. I think the purpose is again to expand who you know and who you have as people that you can rely on and people who you want to work with, and I really like this idea of finding your people, finding your community, and that's what it is, for me at least. A lot of the things that I think we might be talking about today are things that I do myself, because I also think that community building helps you expand as a human being, expand as a person, and maybe that takes I love that you said that, because maybe that takes some of the pressure off Like maybe it's not as scary if we think about all of us as human beings and wanting to be with people who share your values.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And share your creative spirit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think we've all heard this phrase so many times. Creative spirit yeah, and I think we've all heard this phrase so many times, probably been pounded into our brains, but I know, for me it was sort of a game changer and a work in progress.
Speaker 2:When I say game changer to hear you know book the room, not the job, and I think of it a lot of the times is when you go to a party you're also nervous, but you're excited to meet other people and just make new friends and I think, if you can put the emphasis on that, there is, like you said, a little bit of the pressure taken out of that balloon and I also conjured up the Shonda Rhimes of it all.
Speaker 2:You know the famous monologue where, I think in Grey's Anatomy, they're saying you're my people, you're my person Because it is like you said, we get by with a little bit of help from our friends. I mean, how many more things can I quote here? I don't know, Erica, but you touched on it, and I wonder what is your personal relationship with networking like Is?
Speaker 1:it something you personally find a little scary. Do you enjoy it? I don't know if enjoy is the right word, but I do. Well, ok, you know what? Actually, let me put it this way I do like meeting new people. I really do. I have a curiosity about people and what they do. You can ask my partners. I ask a lot of questions and I always want to learn about other people and like what they're doing and how they're doing it, and I think that's so important. So leading with curiosity always, I think, is a big thing. Taking it off of, you know, anytime we can take it off of ourselves and put that energy on toward someone that we're truly interested in, energy on toward someone that we're truly interested in. Like I'll do little things.
Speaker 1:Like if I'm watching a TV show and I'm really I'm particularly inspired by the casting, I might reach out to the casting director and say and tell them just how much I loved what they did, and that's not anything, you know, that's not me trying to get anything, that's just me uh wanting to express um, a uh like uh, I want to, you know, just express how much I enjoyed somebody's work and, um, I'm not expecting anything from that, but I hope that it that, you know, perhaps it leads to maybe a continued friendship or like a building, like a network of colleagues that I, that I want to talk to and share experiences with, like especially professional experiences. Maybe I can learn more about my job. I'll give like an example. There's a show called Master of None.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, casting director Cody Becky did that show and there was an episode where the episode is called I Love New York.
Speaker 1:And the episode is called I Love New York and it's one of the episodes that just like floored me, because they cast there are cab drivers in that episode because of their work, because of what that person did. It just sort of blew me away and I found it very inspiring. So I wrote to Cody to let them know. And you know, like I said, like I just think that when you are inspired by someone's work and it's something that you maybe want to emulate for yourself, or you want to work with that person reaching out.
Speaker 1:People love, love it when you reach out to them enough in an authentic way, because you were moved by something that they did or something you saw, something they made. So I really encourage that you're not bothering anybody by, you know, by just sending the email.
Speaker 2:Yeah, send that email.
Speaker 1:Send it Say, hey, I really loved, I saw, you know, whatever you saw, like I saw this play and I loved your work and you know, I just think that that can. That kind of authenticity is very welcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's so funny. You bring up Cody because I went in for Masters of None for a little bit and at one of the last auditions he took a moment just to compliment me and say something nice.
Speaker 2:And it changed my entire day. It changed the way I saw all the auditions I did that week and there's kind of science behind that. So even if you don't everybody build a relationship with somebody, at least you're saying something good and putting it out there in the world and affecting someone in a positive way and it feels good to do that. You know it's not why we do it, but I think that's really beautiful. You would bring up that aspect of kindness which we need more of in this world. We need more of yeah.
Speaker 1:Can I tell you so? I went to. There's a coffee shop near my house and I was meeting before this. Right before this, I was meeting.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're caffeinated, we're ready to go, we're ready to go, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't go into this place that often but I went in and the barista was like. He said he's like oh. I yawned and he said oh, you need some espresso. And I said I do. And he said how about an almond milk latte? I said sure, and then we had a discussion about almond milk versus oat milk and like how our journeys with that.
Speaker 1:And then once when he made my latte, he said to me he said you're Erica Jensen, aren't you? And I said yes, and he said you're a casting director. And he said I am an actor and he'd written down his information and he said I usually play this kind of role. He said you know, he was so sweet and he's like I usually play this kinds of role. He said you know, he was so sweet and he's like I usually play these kinds of roles. And he was kind of going, but he did it in such a way that was just so sweet and thoughtful and he'd written down like all his information on like a you know, just like a paper bag and handed it to me and I can't wait to bring him in for something because it was just like really sweet, and I just thought this is like he saw an opportunity.
Speaker 1:Like I don't get recognized, you know, like if anybody says anything to me, it's that they think I'm Maya Rudolph usually.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, what a compliment. Oh my gosh, which is fine, I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1:But I was like, so I was kind of moved by the fact that, like, first of all, that he like how did he even recognize me? That was one thing. And then and then just the way he approached it was so sincere and sweet and genuine and not invasive, yeah, and I really I love that. So I've got his information now. I can't wait. Next time I have something, you know, I'll definitely like see if I can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how cool that that happened today, right before this conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I love that. That story was, I guess, told and created and you know you can frame that brown paper bag with their number and put it in the Museum of Broadway one day or something, or the Academy Museum, you know exactly. All of this actually brings up a really interesting point to me, erica, which is that I feel like as actors sometimes we do make the best connections just with people not thinking of them as their title, and so everybody out there, when we're going out to network, here we go. Do you think there's something actors can do, mindset wise, to put them in the best headspace possible for this? Because you met someone after having some banter at a coffee shop. You know an audition setting can be so different and you might be friendly and curious and asking questions, but I'm sure you'd sometimes see actors with their brains ticking sort of thinking OK, how can I answer this in the most interesting way possible? So what do you think actors can do to kind of just like take a breath and be in that authentic place?
Speaker 1:what you're saying is maybe like how I would answer. It is again just remembering to be. The person that you're talking to is a human being. Having curiosity about another human being is always, I think again taking that breath and remembering that everyone that I work with you know, I feel, is um on the actor's side. You know, when I'm in an audition situation, I think very old ideas about like what's the word? Like power dynamics.
Speaker 1:Like the power dynamics and like there's some kind of adversarial, that these relationships are adversarial or antagonistic somehow, and for me they're really just not Like. I don't see it that way and I understand why maybe actors feel that way, particularly if they're feeling a little frustrated, which we all are Because, like especially now, like feel, you know, the feeling in the air is pretty challenging right now.
Speaker 1:Um, for lots of reasons that aren't just about um all of us, but are about like bigger picture, um, uh, but what I want actors to know more than anything is that, um, I, you know, I'm always, you know, we're all we're. Every casting director I know at least advocates is like a big advocate for actors, and so we're always wanting to know, wanting to know like the authentic person that's coming in the room Like we want an authentic experience always and it doesn't mean you know, so we don't want you to.
Speaker 1:We don't want actors to overthink or try to do like what they think we want to see. We want them, we want the, we want it to come from who they are and it's the same. And it's the same with a conversation Like if I'm, you know, out in the world again, you know, like I said, that person I just met at the coffee shop, again very authentic, just like he recognized me, he said something nice and that's all I ever want.
Speaker 2:I'm a total sucker for kindness.
Speaker 2:Same Kindness is my philosophy and I love that you say that and I think it speaks to you too, because both parties sort of have to be open to view it in the way that it may be authentically, genuinely is. You know, it's a tricky thing this life and it makes me wonder. You know, part of networking is making a first impression, and I just want to put that buzz phrase out there. First impressions, I guess. How have you come to trust them over the years? What are your thoughts on them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really really good question.
Speaker 1:I know it's a tricky thing, it's tricky because, you know, there are so many ways now that we make first impressions and, like, sometimes those first impressions come from social media. And so when I'm thinking about first impressions, like there might be ways that I've like gotten an impression of a person before I've even met them, right Because of social media, because of website, because an actor has a website and I might go to their website too. I do explore websites a lot, especially like when I don't know an actor, when I've not met them in person or seen them in an audition space. If I want to get to know them, figure out if they might be right for what I'm working on, I will definitely go to like their website. So that's going to be like my first impression, right. And so we sort of have to think about what first impressions are these days.
Speaker 1:It's not just like the handshake or the like it's not always going to be like the physical interaction, because so much of what we're doing is online now. A lot of times now, like self tapes are going to be like a first impression If I've never met the actor and they're submitting a tape for something I've invited them to submit a tape for. That's going to be my first impression of them, right yeah?
Speaker 2:And the slate, I guess.
Speaker 1:And the slate.
Speaker 2:yeah, Just to hop there for a second, like if you're having an actor come in for the first time. Let's say, coffee shop comes on in, does the slate?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you like a little bit of personality in the slate? I do yeah. Do you like just business? I do yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:I do, but I also don't want everybody to start thinking like oh gosh, I've got to come up with something like. I've got to come up with like 50 wigs in 50 seconds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got to like think of like a way to like you know again, like, if it's like authentic, like what is authentic to you. On occasion we might give an instruction in like a slate to share something, and usually the sharing is connected to whatever it is we're working on, connected to the project. If I'm asking, like in the slate you know, name, height, location, that's perfect, that's totally fine.
Speaker 1:And then, like my impression of you is going to come from your level of professionalism, did you read the instructions, um, and the slate? Have you prepared all the material that I asked to prepare? Can I, um? Is your tape um? Like? Can I, uh? Can I hear you? Can I see you? You know properly, you know Um, and then so that level of professionalism is going to be my first, you know, and then so that level of professionalism is going to be my first, my first impression.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. I loved reading about you in the sense of you saying that casting director is sort of like matchmaking, which is such a fun analogy.
Speaker 2:You know there's so many folks that listen to this podcast that feel like they're never going to get their match because, for whatever reason, they just feel like they don't have any connection to the industry, they don't know anybody. And you know, the flip positive side of everything going on now even though there's a surplus maybe for casting to view is that there are more opportunities, there are more digital ways, no matter where you live, to get seen. And in this sort of overloaded world with maybe generic networking and people just following a course or taking one interview that they heard and kind of running with a buzz quote, what does authentic networking kind of look like to you? You gave a great example of it earlier, especially, I guess, in regards to actors first breaking in.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So I love that you're talking about the overload, because there is, it does feel like we're in, like a we're in a.
Speaker 1:We're in a time now where everything so much of what we, the house, get out of the house, get off the sofa, go see shows Volunteering at theaters is a big thing, box office or volunteers finding those places, those smaller theater companies that need help getting out there to do that. If you can volunteer time in some way, I think that that is a great way to meet people and yeah, so again it goes back to what we said before like building community, not credits, right, not just credits.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, building community, not just credits, and I think that that's like a big thing. Like, um, the other thing invite your friends over to read plays and scripts and things like that. Like, you know, um, who knows what comes of that? Like, but don't have expectations necessarily that anything comes of it. It's just I've got friends, or invite people that you want to get to know better. Who do you want to get to know better? Invite them over to read plays with you. You know we have. You know the big thing now that I that I encourage and I know that everyone's not capable of this but self-produced work, content creation. It doesn't have to be content that you post online necessarily, or on social media, but like, if you are that kind of person, if you're a writer, if you're a, or if you want to even explore writing, or if you even want to explore producing something else, that that like really inspires you so that?
Speaker 1:kind of then you've got a little bit more control and that gives you other ways to break in. Or someone who wants to write plays, or you want to write a web series, submitting like getting those things done and then getting those things out there to festivals, writing short plays that get into like those short play festivals, that's a big deal, you know, like anything that kind of like again, and then you find, and then that's going to just help, that's going to build your network authentically, because people who want to go to the Sam French you know short play festival you're going to meet them.
Speaker 1:And then you know Red Bull. Yeah, like Red Bull Theater, they have like short play festivals, you know like.
Speaker 2:Red Bull gives you wings, you know, and Red Bull gives you wings. There you go, and Red Bull gives you wings, you know.
Speaker 1:And Red Bull gives you wings.
Speaker 2:There you go. I love all these tangible ways. We're really big on tangible advice, so I really appreciate that and I mentally started creating a newsletter to my friends saying we're doing a monthly play reading, because I feel like a lot of us maybe did some of these things during the pandemic to pass the time and maybe got fatigued and that was such a blur. But bringing all of these back or starting them up for the first time, like you said, can only lead to meeting like-minded is such a tricky phrase, but sort of like your people, I guess we could say. And I think this is all so helpful. I wonder for you do you have a favorite way you like to build relationships with actors? I know you teach a lot. I know you audition a lot. Is there something that you you know most enjoy?
Speaker 1:Well, teaching is a big one. I love, I love teaching and so and I like and I love building relationships that way, because it gives me an opportunity to really get to know the actors. Like the actors that I'm working with, and also watching their progress over time is something that really excites me. Watching somebody just really progress that way In this day of, like lots of self-tapes, I've been able to maybe, not I've been able to see more work from actors that I might not have been able to see work from before.
Speaker 1:And whether you know the actors a lot of actors are not. They don't know this because they're throwing you know, they're sending their casting something and I'm not able to, maybe and like, maybe some actors are not getting called back for that thing. When I see someone that excites me, you know I keep them in mind for other things and then that builds my network of actors who I want to bring in and introduce to the teams that I'm working with. I love being able to introduce new people to the teams I'm working with. I was just, I saw the play Well, it's called. Well, I'll Let you Go.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, great thing, so good, I loved it so much. Well it's called. Well, I'll Let you Go.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I've heard great things so good, I loved it so much, and there was an actor in it who I did not know and and I was just having a meeting about another, about another show, and I mentioned this actor's name and now, you know, I was like I don't know him. I saw him on stage. I thought he was amazing and I'd love to. And now we're, you know, seriously considering him for this play that I'm working on. So I can't say who it is, because it's not, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:You better say it or I'm leaving.
Speaker 1:No, I know we're in like that, we're in the early stages and so, but that is another, but that is another way, you know, like just me again, like taking my own advice and just like getting off the sofa, going to see things, like I see, I try to see a lot of plays, I try to go to the theater a lot, I. That's a way that.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of casting directors and aspiring you know casting professionals that listen to. So I think that's helpful for them, but also for actors. The way you put it something clicked in my brain, even though it's so obvious is that casting directors are also networking. Even though it might feel kind of awkward and scary and like you're going to put them off if you say something or just make that connection, it actually is helping them, because if they don't have a network of actors, they can't really do their job. So I think it's a beautiful sort of insight to just have you say that, and I've heard you say in the past there's so many great articles about you, you're so amazing. It's good to have casting people that like you and call you in, especially in a time where just getting an audition is a win. What would you say on demystifying sort of the fact that it kind of happens overnight Because you might see someone on self-tape and then not have something for them, you know, until like a year or two or more later?
Speaker 1:Or more yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so would you say. It's sort of a long game networking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, networking is a long game and you have to.
Speaker 1:you know you need to sometimes like remind- people that you're, that you're out there, I would say not to be afraid, like once you've established a relationship with somebody, like once you've like been invited to audition for them, making sure that you maintain that by letting them know what you're up to. You know, like when you've got something going on, not being afraid to drop them a note saying hey, inviting them to the things that you're in, even if they haven't brought you in in a while. It's likely that they just haven't had anything for you. It's not like it's not that you did anything wrong or it's not that you're not talented or that you're not, like you know, a good actor. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that. We just heard maybe a cab honking in the background. It might get blurred out in post, but everybody there was a cab. This is so New York for my LA people listening.
Speaker 1:I know, I know yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, though.
Speaker 1:No no, no, no, I'm on a. This is a very quiet place room that I'm in, but I am looking out a window.
Speaker 2:Oh well, that's probably why the lighting's so good yeah that's nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's underrated too is just also taking a moment as creative people to look out the window. I know that sounds kind of silly and woo-woo, but I talk about that a bit on here. I just feel like being bored is a little underrated these days. I think so too. Yeah, you know, yeah, and we should create our own things. And at the same time, don't forget that that sometimes, like the seeds are planted for something creative because you're just like sitting in the grass, you know so, anyway, that's where my brain goes there, but you were talking about the long cave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, and I'm going to keep talking about that, and I also just want to add to what you're saying. I set up my like I set up my remote workspace to look out, to look out the window so that I can like look up and like look out and and just yeah, and just take moments to just see at the trees and look at the pretty houses and the architecture. Yeah, it's nice, but anyway, yeah. So the long game, one of the things, a strategy that I can't take credit for this.
Speaker 1:But another casting director, friend of mine, sujata Pace, I'm not sure, if you know her, yeah, she's wonderful, but she talks about like keeping lists, like, ok, my list of like immediate friends, family, and then, like the second column is like casting directors, agents, managers. And then, like the third column is like who haven't I been in touch with in like three, four or five years? Haven't I been in touch with in like three, four, five years? And who can I, who should I reach out to and like reconnect with you? Know, looking at those lists, like who knows what happens from that? Maybe nothing Again, keeping your expectations again genuine, and like the desire to reconnect with people that you've lost touch with? Maybe, but who knows, like maybe something does come from that you don't. You just don't know Like the number of times that, like I'll be like working on something and I just get a random email from someone that I haven't heard from in a really long time, like all of a sudden I'm like, oh yeah, that that person.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Jane Jane Right. Jane I love Jane, but I haven't, you know, haven't talked to Jane in a really long time and she, jane just so happened to like email and it just so happens to align with like something I'm working on and, great, I can bring Jane in for this thing.
Speaker 2:Just putting yourself out there is such a great lesson in itself, and I found that to be true too in my own life. Even sometimes, just responding to someone I know's Instagram story, it's like, oh hey, wait, the stars are aligning you, which can be. I hate to call them a stepping stone in the TV film world, because they're just a win in itself, but how do you think actors can kind of use those little little things to create memorable connections?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think having those wins they are. They're wins. Like. It's always impressive to me when someone books a co-star and I'm always you know making sure again that you've got those things that you've shot like accessible somehow and letting people know like, hey, I'm on this TV show, you know I'm doing this.
Speaker 1:Anything that you're doing, making sure that you let people know that you're that it and just remembering it's not a bother. It's not a bother to remind people of who you are and what you're doing, especially when you have something going on. That's the best time to look at that list of folks that you haven't been in touch with in a while, making sure that they know what you're doing, that you're still around.
Speaker 2:And that's sort of what a social network is for right, it's to be social, but don't forget to feed the other side too, which is to amp people up, champion them, and you know, maybe the underbelly of this, as we enter the fall and spooky season. Erica, without naming folks, I wonder can you share any horror stories or networking knots? What people should avoid doing people should avoid doing.
Speaker 1:What should people avoid doing? Well, okay, here's something that people should avoid doing. We all understand I'm always a little turned off when people say things like I need a job, or I want to. You know, I want to, you know, I want this, I know that, like we all know that already, you know, like I know. Or when people are defensive, like immediately defensive.
Speaker 1:It's really off-putting when I'm first meeting someone and I'm perceived as the bad guy because of my position. I'm very sensitive. Yeah, I'm a very sensitive person and I never have seen myself or I've never seen this job as like a. I've always seen my job as like a positive, and I think it's just because of how I work and how I work with my partners. I've been mentored to be generous, you know, and to be kind, and I didn't need to be mentored to do that. I'm already that person.
Speaker 1:But I know, and I also understand that that might not always be how other people move through the world, through the world, but the immediate impression that somehow, because of my position, I'm not going to be that, that there has to be a defensiveness, that's a little bit, that's a turnoff, it makes me not want to work. You know that that will make me not want to work with somebody. And then like yeah. And then like again, like what I said, like the sort of obvious, like well, I need a job. I'm like yeah, so so do I. You then like again, like what I said, like the sort of obvious, like well, I need a job Like yeah, so do I.
Speaker 2:We all do, we all need a job. Yeah, yeah, so like you know the trick or treat. I need a job. Trick or treat.
Speaker 1:I need a job, yeah, like I need a job yeah, we all need jobs that are positive, which is like, again, like showing genuine curiosity and asking questions and like being you know. Like you know, we have a you know, we have a play on Broadway right now Purpose, and which run, don't walk everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, try to get there before it closes, it's so good, so good, so good Deserves all the acclaim.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so good and, like you know, anytime anybody wants to talk to me about that because they loved it so much, you know I'm like, yes, I will talk to you about that. And finding those ways of connection, you know, like finding ways to connect that are not just about the industry, you know like I'm always happy to do that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that so much. First of all, I'm so grateful that you lead with kindness and that you are generous and that you enjoy questions, because we can put that generosity to the test with all these questions we have from our listeners and our Casting Networks users. Great, they sent in a flurry of cues here just for you and we got a lot. I had to pick some everybody, I'm sorry. I tried to pick the most common ones and I thought we could just try and answer them in a little flash round, if you're down, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm down.
Speaker 2:Yep Okay. The first one is from Janet at Janet's underscore. Life simply wants to know how can I not hate networking so much? I'm an introvert. Help me, Erica.
Speaker 1:I know I'm a little bit of an introvert myself. So one of the things that I try to do again is I, if I want to, if I'm, if I'm curious about meeting somebody, what I do, what I encourage, is doing a little research about that person beforehand and then having something like in my pocket to say or ask, ask, you know, ask that person, get that conversation started in a way that um again takes the pressure off of me. Um and um again. I know I've repeated this a million times now, but just leading with curiosity, um and um, if you find that you're like in a such like, you know, like you're in a situation where like, say, you've just seen a play, for example, and then you see somebody that you want to meet, you've already got an in right there, you know, like you're both at the same play and you get to talk and you can talk to them about the play.
Speaker 1:You can just say hey, I really liked, you know, you can compliment them on their thing and then talk about the play, and that's genuine, that's authentic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think that there's just ways to. I so relate to this because I am also someone who is very introverted be very quiet. You know I can be very shy about like approaching people, but finding that in just finding that way that like feels you know that's excellent advice.
Speaker 2:Good, yeah, yeah, I once heard to listen for the weird thing.
Speaker 2:So when you're talking to somebody, oh I love that, listen for the weird thing. If they say, oh, I just took the subway here and there was, you know, someone in a Santa suit did this. But anyway, I'm going to this later. It's like wait, someone in a Santa suit Tell me about sort of like listen for the weird thing. And that's a nice tangible way, if you're feeling a little awkward or shy, to just like play that own game in your head and be curious.
Speaker 1:I love that. I'm going to write that down. Listen for the weird thing oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I've already written down mentally like 80 things you've said, so this will be nice trade. Our next question is from eliza and emma, I believe. Hello the at d o u c e at duquette dot twins. How can we break the ice and approach people organically?
Speaker 1:how can you break the ice and approach people organically? Well, again, I think it just depends on who they are knowing something about them before you go in, like before you meet them, making sure you've done your research, making sure that you again, like, have questions no-transcript to get.
Speaker 2:That's going to go a long way. Yeah, oh, I love that follow up with gratitude and I I think too there's something to be said for that old trick and maybe somebody listening hasn't heard it, so I'll just say it of repeating someone's name when you first meet them. Yes, so it's sort of like, after you walk away, take a moment to to follow up on your own brain and just say, oh, okay, that person was this and they do this and that's a human. I now know on this green and blue circle that we're on so well, speaking of sort of this. Our next question is from my friend, jake underscore S30. What's the best way to network virtually with agents and casting directors? You touched on that a little bit, but anything tangible there?
Speaker 1:Well listen, email is your friend. Well listen, email is your friend.
Speaker 2:And so, I think, one of the things that you can do is utilize, like, using online services, you know, like casting networks, for example. Everybody have a cookie. Take a little shot. There we go.
Speaker 1:Yes, and when you see something that you want to be seen for, for example, finding out, like who's the casting director or finding out who's the director, or finding out who's the playwright, and using email to you know hit them up directly and you know and see where that, see how, see if, if there's room for you to be seen, for you to audition.
Speaker 2:That's really smart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it. I do think that's smart, I think that I think that that can like really help.
Speaker 2:I think so too. I want to, before you move on to your next bullet. There, I might be about this. Forgive me if it is, but what's your ideal cold email. Do you like like a little sentence, sort of like pitch of who someone is in in a human way? Do you like it just be quick and say hey, I saw you're doing this, would love to pick your brain, yeah totally, uh, yeah, um, uh, I love the um.
Speaker 1:Hey, I saw that you're doing this um and I really love this because I love. You know I have a connection to this material because you know there's some reason. You know I really feel connected to this character and I'd love to be seen for it. Now I will offer this doesn't work on every casting director. There are some casting directors who don't want you to tell them what you want to be seen for, like the specific role, because they want to make the determination role because they want to make the determination.
Speaker 1:So I would say that, like for some people, just you know, I think maybe keeping it at like I saw that you're casting this, I, I, I would really love, love to be seen for this, um, uh, yeah, I think that that's. I think. Just, I think going that route it doesn't mean that you are going to get the audition, but it does. But just making that effort is, um, it's better than not um yeah, getting on the radar.
Speaker 2:You know you never know who's going to see you on the sonar radar and call you in, but just like keep being on that little screen with the little beeps and the green and the.
Speaker 1:I don't know what I'm talking about now yeah, yeah, but in terms of um, I think the question maybe I don't know if I answered the question exactly I think about online. I want to just say that I do think having a social media presence can be useful. I think is, again, it has to be, it has to be approached authentically. If you like social media and you want to be on social media sharing work that you do Like, if you're particularly like I see a lot of musical theater people posting like themselves singing songs or like playing instruments, or I also will see actors who posted, maybe, auditions that they've had as examples of their work, and I think that that can be useful and as long as that feels authentic for you.
Speaker 1:I don't I'm not asking everybody to run out and have a social media presence, but if you do, the other thing that you need to make sure that you do is for every post that you do, that you post, everything that you post, post about yourself make sure you uplift two or three other um, other other people or things that you you know that, that you really enjoy that, speak to your values. Um, that yeah, so that you're, so that you're continuing to again think more broadly, think in like a more human way. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And not only is that kind, but technically, I believe all these social media platforms value that in the algorithm, so it actually helps get it's sort of like the science of kindness. It helps get your stuff out there, like kindness always gives back and it's not why you do it, but it's a reason, another reason why you like, why not and why not? The next question actually has to do with social media, which is from Andrew Azuna. Ooh, I love that name. Andrew wants to know is it okay to DM folks on Instagram that are maybe more well-known in the industry?
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, I think that you can, but it doesn't, but just but, but, but again, like it, it's there and you know, I think social media makes the world a little smaller. We do have access, you know, maybe in a way that we didn't before you. You have access to folks who are participating on social media in a way that you didn't, that we, that we haven't before. It doesn't mean that you're going to hear back, you know. So I think, as long as you're again approaching things with like, you're being authentic and kind and leading with like and leading with something that's positive, you know, but I wouldn't like, I wouldn't say that that that should be your, your, your, your. You know a habit that you.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you, erica, and thank you all for submitting your cues. You can submit them via Casting Networks or at Rob Peterpaul. Hey, I'll accept them as well. You co-founded a wonderful organization that I do want to shout out, that does a lot of what we've talked about here today, which I believe is called she Collective. It's a creative, safe space for women and non-binary folks. Thank you for your work there, first of all, and I wonder what lessons about trust-based networking from that experience do you think can apply to all actors when they go to meet new people professionally?
Speaker 1:I wonder if you've seen any lessons come out of your work there why, why I started she collective was to create a safe space, you know, for for women and non-binary people, um, uh, to um be able to, you know, explore their work and um, work in a, in a way where they, you know, where they felt like they were being supported, um and um, and they can be a little bit more fearless perhaps, um, but um, uh, and. And the thing that I really that I really want to emphasize, what thing that I emphasize with she collective again, is community building and um, and trying to relieve the transactional nature of the business.
Speaker 1:You know, like I again like I just feel like when you're working from that space, when everything's transactional, it just feels it does. It feels it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to work that way and it feels like you have to. You're constantly bending yourself to be what other people want you to be If you're, if you're working from that space. And so I want the, I want the folks who come to me through she and take classes which at she Collective and take classes at she Collective, and want them to feel like they are connecting with their authentic self and that that's enough.
Speaker 1:Like being yourself is you're going to find the people who want to work with you and who you want to work with you know and not, and again, like relieving that idea of the trend of, of of it all being transactional, I just, yeah, I don't, I don't like it and I don't think that and I don't think I'm being naive, you know. I think that there's like I understand what this industry is. I don't want to sound like you know, I'm not like you know, I get it, but at the same time, I do think that we can operate differently. And if more of us are operating differently, then things change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that so much too, because even as actors it's sort of like don't audition to get the job because you're going to get something in a transaction, audition because it's a chance to do what you love to do yeah. So it sort of puts the emphasis on the passion, the people, versus maybe you know, getting something, yeah. Oh, okay, random, but you said when you were acting you didn't feel like you were very good at auditioning and I would feel remiss not to ask you when I have you here, since you coach a lot about auditioning, I'm wondering what you see most of all being on the other side now and I guess what your sort of number one just audition tip in general is for actors.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you never got that question.
Speaker 1:No, well, ok, the reason why I wasn't good at auditioning, I think, is because I would get. I would just get so nervous that I would fall asleep, like I would fall asleep in the audition, like in the waiting room. Oh, literally fall asleep. Literally fall asleep. Yeah, I would just like pass out.
Speaker 1:And like I think that I think auditioning for me, I think, um, I I really loved, I really enjoyed being an actor in the bubble of graduate school. When I got out into the world of New York City and I saw what it, what, like the kind of stamina you have to have, I realized that that wasn't for me. So I think that's more what I meant when I said I wasn't good at auditioning the, what you need, the stamina and the, and the continued like looking for work and looking for someone to just see you, like trying to find things to audition for and then balancing that with like a survival job, like that was like I just realized it just wasn't what I, how I wanted to move, like it just wasn't like what I could. I couldn't do it and just the day to day of that was just very hard for me.
Speaker 1:When I see actors who can navigate all of that and who are prepared, you know, because they've read the script, they've they've researched who's in the room, they have they just feel they have like a real passion for what they're doing, people who just love what they're doing and you can see it and you can feel it. You can feel it when somebody comes in and they've made choices, they they're, they're excited to be there. Um, um, you know it is. They see it as an opportunity rather than like a hassle. You know um and and um. So that's, those are the things that like that I love. I love that kind of energy, you know, and you can see it in people's self tapes, like if someone, if, like if I have a lot of, if I have somebody who I've invited to like send a tape in like a few times and I keep getting the same response back, like there's always like a reason why they can't.
Speaker 1:Then I then I sort of feel like maybe that person just doesn't want to, maybe this isn't the what they should be, maybe they're, maybe they're. They don't want to do this.
Speaker 2:They can't prioritize it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you can't prior, yeah, if you can't prioritize it, then I'm not judging, that's fine. But then you have to kind of look at your life like, okay, do I want to do this, like for real?
Speaker 2:um because it's just because it is.
Speaker 1:It's just harder than when I started, like this is, this is a lot harder, like having to make tapes um, that's hard. I know how hard that is. Like I understand that. That's like really hard. It's harder than just getting like an appointment and then showing up.
Speaker 2:You know it makes me wonder, to kind of like come full circle a bit, because a lot of the questions and the other ones I have for you I think do come back to just that authenticity leading with kindness, being yourself, sort of, if it feels like something you're proud of. If you wouldn't, let's say, be embarrassed if somebody screenshotting the email and posting it you know not that anyone's going to do that If it feels authentic to you, then that's probably the way to go and to trust in.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of the business things and even little pieces of advice that we run with that maybe make sense can put pressure on us, and so I just wonder what do you think is a good way to recenter yourself as an actor, now that we've talked about all of this, and allow yourself to then shine through in your interactions and in your work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So one of the things I think is finding the ways that you care for yourself, like the self-care you know, like self-care is such a big thing, right, yeah, but it's true. Like finding ways to like and also your relationship with auditioning, because that is so much of what you're doing, like you hope at least like as an actor, reframing how you think about auditioning, reframing how you think about self tapes you know like, and seeing it more as an opportunity rather than like a hassle. How?
Speaker 2:do you?
Speaker 1:make it like, how do you make it something that's not terrible, you know, like, maybe, like again, like going back to like OK, I have this self tape I have to do. Maybe I have some friends around who can help me with that, and that way it's a little bit more, it might be a little bit more fun, um, um, uh. So, yeah, I just think that there's like, yeah, making things fun, um, you can't always make it fun, but finding ways that, uh, that help you reset your mind, and again, you're not always going to be successful at that, right, you're going to have like just bad days, that's just the way it is, but not living in that space all the time, you know, like I wonder how we can all not live in, like, if that is not the constant.
Speaker 1:And if it is the constant, then maybe just take a step back and say, hey, do I still want to do this? It's OK if you don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You can give yourself a break. Let yourself off the hook.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, take a break and also find it's OK if you don't want to do it the way you've been doing it anymore too. You know, I think a lot of us get stuck in this ring light backdrop situation now, and I mean, for the first time in a long time, I had a scene recently where the person was sitting on a bed eating cake, and so you know what? I put my backdrop behind me on the bed and I did it, and then I got a callback because it felt it was more fun for me and I mean, I think there's something to be said everybody for maybe, like breaking the rules a little bit sometimes and making it your own in a professional sense. So I love everything you're sharing and you know, speaking of that self-care, I got to go on my daily walk soon and let you go.
Speaker 2:But before we do, erica, can we play a very quick surprise game? Sure, do-do-do-do-do-do. I know we didn't know where that was going to build to. We're like what we're at the top of the coaster now. This is called Casting Keywords and basically I'm going to name a keyword or a phrase that you're going very familiar with as a phenomenal casting director. You just tell me the first piece of tangible advice for actors that pops into your brain and we'll move through it kind of quick if that's cool.
Speaker 1:I'll try yes. I know that I talk a lot.
Speaker 2:You'll succeed. Oh, you can talk a lot. I just want to respect your time. So do you talk as much as you want, please. You're blessing us all, okay, so the first one we have here is headshots.
Speaker 1:Look like you want a good day.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:The slate Name, height, location, and usually it's great if it's separate from. I usually like it if the slate is separate from the and it's very OK if you have like a slate that you've created and you want to just tack that on to your. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's fine. Yeah, that's a great idea. I love that. Ok, yeah, breaking down a breakdown as an actor.
Speaker 1:OK, so breakdowns this is good. Okay, so breakdowns this is good, depending on what it is. Make sure that you, if it's a Broadway show, there's a big likelihood that a lot of those roles have already been cast or there's offers out on the roles. That should not stop you from like going to the EPA. Always go to EPAs for everything If you know. But like if it's like if it's a regional job, there might be some offers that have already gone out on some of the roles. You should always, but you should always pursue because you don't know exactly what's happening with it. But go to EPAs. People Just go to EPAs. You know. If you can make sure, you go, yeah, that's a way to like, that's a way to expand again, that's a way to expand your network, expand your community yeah, I love that, and then it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a free way usually too, you know, although it costs your time and your energy. But I love that, always, always pursue. I think that's brilliant, taking adjustments taking adjustments.
Speaker 1:Okay, make sure you take the adjustment like you know. Yeah, just do it like make sure that you the adjustment. Just do it Like make sure that you do If you're given an adjustment and you don't understand, make sure you ask the question. Ask for more details. You know that's the hardest thing. I think for me is like watching someone get an adjustment and then they don't do it. And it's probably because they just don't understand what the director's saying, but they don't want to ask.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't be afraid to ask.
Speaker 1:Don't be afraid to ask the audition. It's your audition, so make sure that you ask.
Speaker 2:I love that so much. It goes back to curiosity. I wonder. Okay, the next word here is improv, so I wonder what you think about that.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, improv, um, this is a good one. Um, I think, making sure that you honor the writer's words writers want to hear what they've written. Um, if you want to improv something like right at the end, um that's okay. Sometimes. If there's like a little improv at the beginning to get you into the scene, that's okay too. That can be okay. If you're given definite like strict permission, strict permission to improvise something, then please go with it. You know, make sure that you do. I think that I think improvving happens a lot in like commercials and some TV shows. Like sometimes they'll give you like an opportunity to improvise on it for TV.
Speaker 2:Not so much with theater, you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't do too much improvising at theater, although sometimes like an EPA.
Speaker 2:if you're in person, you got to improvise if something happens in the room. You know if, like, the ceiling falls down, if there's a leak I've kind of seen it all If someone's granola bar falls out of their mouth, I think it's okay to address it.
Speaker 1:I think that's okay. Yes, please, yeah, don't pretend like things aren't happening around you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause people people aren't doing that that are on Broadway shows. You know the. I saw a show recently where the lamp prop shattered on stage and they had to make a little bit of a bit out of it. So, yeah, try to be present in that way, and I have so enjoyed being present with you. Before I let you go, I would just love if you could give us the best piece of advice that you've gotten and then have to give. So we always end with a gotten and a given, if that makes sense in this industry.
Speaker 1:Okay, let me see the best piece of advice that I've gotten. Oh, that's so hard, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:I know, these are big ones.
Speaker 1:These are big ones.
Speaker 2:Best piece of advice I've gotten is In this moment too, you reserve the right to change your mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah Is about mostly, I think, like advice that's around. Maybe this is both. You know this is answers for both, but like the right thing comes, you know, like the when you are present and when you are at, you know, maybe like at your most quiet. You know, and if you're listening, if you're paying attention, then you know the things that are right for you will come, and sometimes it might feel like the wrong thing, but maybe there's always learning in whatever comes right.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's always learning in whatever comes, and sometimes you're not going to get this role that you're dying to get. Or, for me, maybe I'm not going to get this job that I really, really want. It's going to go to somebody else, and I believe that that's because things land where they're supposed to land, and it just means that there's going to be space for me for the thing that is right for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the prep you sort of did for that meeting or that audition is going to come in handy one day down the road. It's going to come in handy somewhere down the road, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. My nanny always says come in handy one day down the road, it's going to come in handy somewhere down the road. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. My nanny always says watch what comes into the void. Yes, I think it's nice to just sort of let things come to you sometimes while you're proactively, you know, following your dream and doing what you love and speaking of. I loved listening to my friend Jennifer Apple's podcast with you Empowered Artists Collective, so I want to shout that out as I was preparing for this. That was such a great conversation as well, and I hope you enjoyed this one. Erica, Thank you just for enriching this community by being you and leading with kindness. We're lucky to have you.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. I love talking about this. Thank you, oh, I'm glad.
Speaker 2:We'll come back anytime.
