How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How to Create an Acting Reel that Hooks Casting with Reelarc's Guy Chachkes
How do I make an acting demo reel? Join producer and Reelarc co-founder Guy Chachkes* as he answers this important industry question alongside actor and host Robert Peterpaul. They breakdown 3 golden rules for making an impact with your TV/Film demo reel, from nailing the structure to creating your own dazzling scenes.
This episode covers:
• How to hook casting in the first 8 seconds.
• What to include and not to include in every demo reel.
• How often to update your marketing materials.
• Ways to create a demo reel on any budget and more.
*Guy Chachkes is the CEO and Co-Founder of Reelarc, the leading demo reel production company in the United States. Since launching in 2014, Reelarc has produced more than 14,000 original cinematic scenes, helping thousands of actors clarify their brand, build industry-ready materials, and secure representation. Born in Tel Aviv, Guy began his journey in theatre and cinema as a teenager, directing dozens of short films. His career has since spanned acting, filmmaking, and entrepreneurship.
This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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My name is Guy Chachkis. I am 5'11". Fun fact about me is that I am addicted to cooking knives and I have a whole set of them because I love cooking etc. And they're unfortunately expensive. And you're listening to how we Roll.
Speaker 2:Well, that was sharp. Ah, okay, that was stupid. Thank you so much. When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to how we Roll, a podcast for actors by Casting Networks. Hi actors, it's your friend, robert Peter Paul, and it's time to get real. Warning I'm most certainly going to overuse that pun way too much.
Speaker 2:Today, we're tackling one of the most important hows for actors how to create an acting demo reel specifically for television and film, though this will likely apply to other mediums as well. Whether you're brand new to the industry welcome, we're so glad you're here or looking to level up your materials, your reel is often the first impression casting directors, agents and producers will get of you on screen. So how can you make it shine? By the end of this chat, hopefully, you'll know how to make it stand out, how to build a reel even if you don't have that much footage, some common mistakes to avoid and even smart strategies for creating reels on any budget. To help us cut through the noise, I'm joined by someone who knows this world inside and out. Today's guest is Guy Chachkis, the CEO and co-founder of of RealArk Inc. The leading demo reel production company in the United States. Since launching in 2014, realark has produced more than 14,000 original cinematic scenes, helping thousands of actors clarify their brand, build industry-ready materials and secure representation. Brand build, industry-ready materials and secure representation. Born in Tel Aviv, guy began his journey in theater and cinema as a teenager, directing dozens of short films. His career has since spanned acting, filmmaking and entrepreneurship. Now, alongside running RealArc, guy is expanding into original content creation, with his first feature film slated for release this year and new in-house productions underway. Guy watches thousands of reels every year, works directly with agents and casting directors and helps actors showcase their best selves on screen, so he is truly a treasure trove of real knowledge. I told you I was going to overuse that pun.
Speaker 2:Thank you, dear listeners, for submitting your questions on social media. I included a bunch of hows in this episode and hope you continue to do so. This is how we roll with TV film demo reels. We're rolling. Hello friends, as you heard, we're going to create a definitive guide to acting reels for you today. Not social media acting reels, although those are great too, and maybe it'll pop up. I'm joined in the studio by our expert Guy. Not just an expert Guy, but Guy is the name of the expert. I'm sure you've never gotten that before. Yeah, always, always, as we answer this. How for you? So welcome Guy. Thank you so much for being here. I'm super excited.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, I wish we were doing this in your beautiful studio. Everybody I know.
Speaker 1:And I wish I was in my beautiful studio, but we're currently in the equipment room next to the studio. But this is where all the beautiful props and everything you know, they all find themselves in the studio.
Speaker 2:That's pretty magical and I think it's. It's great to show that side of this all too. It's not all glamour folks, but I think you look really cool in there. I wish.
Speaker 1:I had some kind of shelf behind me. It's not glammy at all, but yeah, it's, it's, it's great. You know what's glammy is what's in front of the camera, which is fun for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dare I say, it's real guy it is very real.
Speaker 1:It is as real as it gets well as we talk.
Speaker 2:If you want to whip out any props, you know I won't be opposed to that, you know, if it's fitting, but we touched on it, you know. I just want to say you are the founder of real arc, which is, I'll say, the premier demo reel and production company for actors by Coastal. You see thousands of reels every year, if not more, and work very closely with agents and casting directors, etc. So I just I cannot wait to pick your brain on this subject.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:First, can you just please share in a nutshell why you do what you do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was a child actor myself. As I grew up, I decided that I wanted to be more in front of the camera. But I found an opportunity. I was waiting tables like everybody else, like about 10, 11 years ago in this restaurant in the Upper East Side of Manhattan Me and another waiter there, steven, who's my business partner. This was when the DSLR revolution was kind of happening a little bit. You know, outside of it, where we're making something look great kind of like, started popping right and you were able to make something that looks incredibly cinematic with not so expensive equipment and there were a lot of actors in the restaurant.
Speaker 1:I was kind of like flailing, not really knowing what to do with my life. You know, like everybody, you know who waits tables. Already seven, eight years into the game I was like, oh my God, what am I going to do? And then this came up you know what I mean and my business partner, stevenven he had the idea for it was like, hey, let's shoot scenes for actors at the restaurant. I was like, okay, maybe there's like something here and I can marry both worlds. You know filmmaking and, um, acting. I didn't know anything about holding a camera, neither did steven. But we had this, like you know, like that curve that we thought that we can actually do something. Yeah, but anyways, it started with one actor in the restaurant I remember all of them and then the second one.
Speaker 2:Was it Meryl Streep? Was that the name? No, no, no.
Speaker 1:It was an actress named Cara.
Speaker 2:So thank you, Cara.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember the scenes as well. But so we shot Cara and then subsequently like more actors and 11 years later we're approaching now 14,000 scenes shot. But the reason why we didn't? Initially it was like as an actor, filmmaker, who was already you know years, feeling like they can't find their space. You know, seeing other actors, other people in my community, feeling like they were struggling to get footage and they didn't know how to do it.
Speaker 1:Um, it felt like a sense of purpose and the more we shot, it felt like the sense of purpose of helping actors really grew. And I'm I'm I'm thrilled to say that we shot 14 000 scenes not as like a medal, but just as like. These are 14 000 scenes for actors that we've created,000 scenes not as like a medal, but just as like these are 14,000 scenes for actors that we've created and help them gain work and money, which is important. You know what I mean? It's helping them, like you know, make, you know make money through this craft. So, yeah, yeah, so a deep sense of purpose with real art, 11 years into it.
Speaker 2:Congratulations. That is all so incredible and it is a great investment, like you're saying, because it's really tough. That's one of the questions we actually got. Probably the number one question on creating your own demo reel is how do I do that if I don't have the footage? And so I think, whether or not people are fortunate enough to work with you, what we're going to talk about here today are some ways that you can hopefully craft this incredible demo reel that showcases you, and, having gone through your process, I love how one of the first things that you all define when creating a new scene for a reel is just a discussion. It starts with a chat of who you are and who you kind of want to be in this industry, and I think that applies to just putting a demo reel together. In general, would you say that's like a good first step for folks just to find the lens of who you want to be.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of, of course, and I mean there's a lot of it. Sorry to cut you off, but there's a lot of it.
Speaker 2:We're in a virtual studio, so there's a slight delay, and it's all fun and fair.
Speaker 1:No worries, there's a lot of talk about brand and frou-frou brand and there's some, like actors, that don't like the talk that you know brand and you know I'm not branded, I'm not a cow, I'm not a thing. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:They, they, you know yeah yeah and um, when we look at brand or that thing, that discussion right, um, the introduction to yourself, the way that we look at brand is like okay, who are you right now, at this moment in your career, and where you see yourself fitting, and then helping through a set of exercises to help you kind of like see maybe where the industry will meet you right or where they would see you.
Speaker 1:So brand for us is kind of like the meeting point of those two things what you want to do and how you want to introduce yourself, and also the counterpoint, or the, the complimentary point of where the industry may see you and we just that's. That's kind of like the, the, the tree that we, you know, the, we spring off from Um, and we go through a set of exercises you know that are fun and and and all that to really kind of like hone in. And so, yeah, I would say it's the most important thing to really do is define your slogan, your marketing. You know you can't shoot a marketing campaign, you can't shoot an advertising, unless you know what it is that you're shooting Right. So and that goes before script, before anything so who are you as a quote, unquote product is very important to create really impactful media. Then there's all the other formulas that we've created to create really really. You know, once we figure out your brand, how do we create it so the media is really impactful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting too because, like you said, the word brand may scare some people, or product, but it is a business at the end of the day and whether you use those words or different words, whatever aligns with you, I think it's really cool, just as a person in this life, to have these conversations, think about who you are and how you want to show up, because otherwise you're just kind of editing together clips and it looks cool but people may not know where to place you. So exactly you know, it's a great starting point.
Speaker 1:You know casting directors and this is something that I have a little bit of a problem with the gurus out there and we don't pretend to be gurus and I don't want to start beef but casting directors are creatives and they can see and imagine where to put you. You're not telling them, no one can tell them. Oh, you know what I mean? This is what I should be in, because if you created a scene of you as a CEO in succession, but they want to put you as a janitor, because that's what they see for the role, they'll do it Right. Yeah, what you're doing is you're creating for yourself a calling card. You're basically, you know, creating your package, but then there's no way to tell how they're going to cast you. So it's not really about that. It's about you staying true to what you can do right now and how you want to present yourself. The rest is up to the casting director, who is an artist or she's an artist on their own right, and they can cast you however they want. Yeah, I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 2:It does. It's an artistry, and we talk with so many casting folks on here about exactly like that, and someone had said a while back even with your resume, think about your story, where you want your story to go, versus just having a bunch of things on a page. I think it applies to a reel as well, absolutely so. In this same vein, I'm wondering, since you talk with a lot of agents and casting directors and actors.
Speaker 1:Obviously, what would you say is the number one thing people like to see in a demo reel? I will say there's a lot of opinions and every casting director or agent will say what they like to see in a demo reel, and that's great. There's a lot of opinions like how you should start it, what you should start with, blah, blah. I can tell you, I can tell you what works by the numbers on attracting or creating the most impactful demo reel, which we, um, which we've done a lot of research into, uh, through our, you know, analytics, our facebook analytics, our instagram analytics, we post all a lot of our scenes not all of them, but we post a lot of our scenes daily, um, to see what kind of like catches the eye. And about a year ago, we decided to like go on a journey and really figuring out, okay, what makes a reel right, pop to like 500,000 views and what reel keeps something at 4,000 views right. Sometimes it's an algorithmic thing and we can't do anything about it, but what we found and we tested it by, actually, after we've kind of like thought about it, we tested it by creating reels for this and see if they pop, and they indeed did. So there's three things that you need to remember, okay, if you're going to create an impactful reel. Number one casting directors, agents, managers, are all scrollers, right, like any other human. Everybody's susceptible to Instagram, to YouTube Shorts, to TikTok, to Facebook. Everybody is in their beds or on their couch flicking through reels, right, and your reel should be no different in the way that it attracts them. So there is a fundamental rule of stopping someone in their tracks, and that is a hook. Okay, and the way that you should structure your scene from the beginning is an explosive statement said by you, the actor in the scene, and that can be something that is like very hooking, right, and one of those things. So, if you have to think about the hook, it needs to be like something that can be either current, something that has to do with love, something that has to do with health, something that has to do with wealth.
Speaker 1:So, for example, when we tested a scene, you know, for a lack of a better thing, we really wanted to see how much we push it. The first line that we gave the actor was like I am getting this abortion, whether you let me or not. Right, it is immediately like, like you know what I mean. And 2 million views later, you know thousands of comments on that scene we realized we have something here. So I'm not saying like you know, create some, like you know, salacious thing.
Speaker 1:Whatever you know, you can stay true to the scene, but always remember that the first statement in the scene needs to be explosive enough to hook the audience, to be able to keep them there. Now, casting directors and agents may not even know that that's what they want, but that's what keeps them there, right? So your scene, your reel, needs to start. Every piece of media needs to start on you and it needs to start with an impactful first line, and I would keep it in the health, wealth, love categories. You know, don't tell me to get this abortion. He killed his. You know why did you kill your ex-wife? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I know you killed her.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, you know, and it doesn't have to be that cheesy right, there's ways to make it good, but you know, it's by the numbers. You know, and it doesn't have to be that cheesy, right, there's ways to make it good, but you know, it's by the numbers. You know, and we've seen it time and time again that's what really hooks people into a reel.
Speaker 2:So that's that's number one, and I'm sorry if I'm going. I'm sorry if I'm going to pause you just on number one for a second, because I want to make sure it applies also to people that have scenes from network shows or whatever and they're editing things together. I guess the same could be said for if you have a really nice moment with I think we'll get into this a bit later with you know, a prominent actor on a good show and maybe it's like a good first line, that could be sort of a visual hook, 100%, and you can also pick things out of the footage you have. If there's provocative lines, like you're saying too, that's a nice way to lead in there. But yeah, I just want to throw out there that I think it could be like a visual hook as well. I mean, if you're like running from an explosion and then you say something that's also kind of the ultimate oh.
Speaker 1:I will put that in a different category. If you have network credits on, you know and you have those, you have that media. You don't have to worry about that so much because the hook itself is NBC, hulu, netflix. That's the hook itself, right, yeah, you know that's what hooking the casting director? Because it signals to them oh, this person works right, so you don't necessarily need to have that explosive moment. The hook itself is a network show if that makes sense. But if you don't have that right, you gotta keep them watching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes total sense. And then number two I didn't wantating the conflict in the scene.
Speaker 1:And the number three on that is you know, a payoff that is satisfying for them to watch and that could be a line that can be how it ends. It could be a cliffhanger, but those, if you focus on the, the hook, the conflict and the eventual payoff in very simple ways, then you'll have a great scene that keeps them watching from beginning to end. They're not gonna, most of the time they're going to watch the hook and know if they want you or not, but make sure that the hook is there because that is precious eight seconds that you can use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Hook them in like a fish baby, what reel them in Like a fishing reel.
Speaker 1:Exactly Rod reel like a rod reel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so how many reels, I guess, before we get even more into the nitty gritty here do you think an actor needs? You know, I know scenes are big now. You can kind of just have a scene, a dramatic scene, a comedic scene, whatever you want to call it. But in regards to reels and we're talking about TV film here today how many do you think are important? How?
Speaker 1:many do you think are important? I mean, the thing is with, that is like a combination, a compilation of scenes. I just think that they need to be very good, right, how many is not really important, but it's just like putting together the stuff that is really really good. You know, you don't have to have like one master reel with comedy or drama. You can have a dramatic and a comedic. That's not really what's important, you know. It's just showing really really really good work, whether you create it yourself or you get it from a you know network. You know.
Speaker 1:Again, these are all opinions, you know, but in my experience but in my experience, scenes, right, or clips that are individually broken with their genre and kind of like your brand statement or your slogan about yourself, whatever is more impactful for casting directors and actors' access to get in and out and in and out and in and out, and it's all a window. They want to get a self-tape from you anyway. So you're just showing them strong, acting maybe in the realm of what it is that they want to do. People rarely look at reels. They scrub through reels, right. So if you want to leave it to chance that they may get to that sixth clip on your reel fantastic, but that's okay, make them, but I would keep it as individual clips.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that and that's sort of the beauty of having these different platforms, like a casting networks or even just on your YouTube page if you have it, because you can upload multiple things and send different links and kind of customize it. So I think that's great. You know a lot of listeners. Hi friends probably don't have a reel. Oh hi, oh, a little candy everybody.
Speaker 1:She's actually one of our cinematographers, so, uh yeah, I'm doing a podcast for casting networks, oh fun yeah, hello bye, great moment for yeah, yeah no worries, yeah, I love that, I love, I love a cameo.
Speaker 2:We usually get dog cameos, so it was nice to have a person for once. Yeah, I think a lot of listeners I'm guessing they're tuning in because they don't have a reel so, hi, hi, friend, you got this. I think we've kind of been laying down some basics and we'll get a little bit more into the nitty gritty here. But we did poll our lovely listenership of Casting Network's users for questions, so I'm going to kind of weave them in a bit, yeah, to see how we can really hone in on tangible advice that will help them directly. And a lot of their questions are the ones I had anyway, so it's kind of great. Michael Adolini was one of the folks inquiring about the length. So what would you say is the ideal length for a demo reel? Because we hear things like don't have it be longer than two or three minutes. What are your thoughts? Like don't have it be longer than?
Speaker 1:two or three minutes. What are your thoughts? For a demo reel, meaning a compilation of scenes that you're screening together, I would say no more than two minutes. And again, people are going to scrub through a reel. They don't watch a reel, right? So the longer you have it, the more material you have on there that can just get lost. So I would say, keep it at two minutes. Now, in terms of clips, for individual clips, I would say no more than 60 seconds, you know, and it's very important to focus on those first eight seconds. So the ideal length for one clip, I would say no more than 60 seconds, and ideally 30 seconds and focus on that eight seconds. And then, for a reel, no more than two minutes, in my opinion, and I don't think those are important at this stage.
Speaker 2:Okay, that makes sense. And when we're looking again at a compilation here, do you have even more advice on picking the scenes? I know for me you want high quality scenes, that kind of put you at the center or to edit it at least so it's showing you and not your co-star more. What's your general advice there? Like, let's say, cause we're talking generally today to a lot of different folks but let's say it's someone who does have things and they're thinking like, oh, I'll just string them all together. Like what would you say is the rule of thumb?
Speaker 1:No hook look for the hook first and start the edit from the hook. Right, yeah, and it should start on you. You know, if it takes 30 seconds to get to your face, then it's like or 10 seconds or five seconds to get to your face. They're already scrubbing Right. So the hook needs to start on you. So find the best hook in doorway in that is the most like explosive or whatever it is, or interesting you know of that scene, and start there, right, that is the most important thing to to go for.
Speaker 1:Now, if you're looking at a reel as kind of like a piece of art that you've created, don't just like, put them like one by one, by one by one. Think about what could a great hook Maybe it's from a different scene, but it's like really intrigues them. And then you escalate you know the clips, the various clips that you're doing and then you give it a nice resolution and payoff. Think about it. It's like, if you're going to put a reel together as a piece of, you know, media of its own, that you're trying to, you know, trying to really hook somebody in. It's not just something that you're doing like here's the one, here's the two, here's the three, here's the four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love that. And, like we said too, if you know the scene starts on Meryl Streep's face, that's fine, you know, take it. Take it by, uh, by scene. Again, that's a hook. That's a hook and you can also. It's a captain hook right there and you can also kind of run it by your friends, your loved ones if you have an agent or manager. There's people there that can actually get you a different perspective and say you might think that's a hook, but actually that's making me just want to like scroll. So don't just rely on yourself, because sometimes we're not, yeah, good judges of ourselves.
Speaker 1:I would say a lot of the times. The things that I don't like to see on a reel, when we're casting and we're doing thing, is, like you know, prolonged moments of silence and just like you know, there are all these from short films and things like that.
Speaker 1:It's all the like the looks and it's like you know a look and they're sitting on the bed and it's black and white and you know, and we love it as actors because it's like we really felt it in that moment. Yeah, but it really doesn't help me as a casting director to know can I trust you on set? Can you say the lines Right? So lines are very, very important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I actually that was something I loved from my process with you all was that me and the other actor had such a good time rehearsing and saying, oh, we're going to walk in, we're going to have this moment, do that. And then we got on set and a great piece of advice you all had was just just cut to you're there, you're sitting down, just kind of get into it, because, yes, if we're watching a TV show it's a little different, like we're invested, but of course you want to make sure you get right to the meat and then showcase yourself in the best possible light.
Speaker 1:So exactly, I think but even if TV with TV shows, but even with TV shows, how many times you sit on the couch and you watch a show and you're like I'm going to give this exactly 10 more minutes before, I'm like in my phone because it's not interesting enough and that doesn't go right into the crux of what it is like you're saying.
Speaker 2:It's very precious, so think about that as well. Exactly, this leads to another listener question which again we got quite a bit for you. I think it's at Annalise Icard not iPhone, but Icard, her Apple credit card there?
Speaker 2:What's the number? No, I'm just kidding. She put it pretty succinctly and this was actually a question we got a lot. So we've talked about the benefits of using a service like RealArk. But she wants to know how do I make a reel without any footage in a budget-friendly way, and that was something we got pretty often. So do you have sort of advice there, since, I mean, that's how you started your company?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely and by all means. For me this is not a sales pitch. You know there's people with all kinds of budgets and you know we, we like to respect actors wherever they are in their careers. And I have the exact I have the exact kind of like answer for this create material that is true to where you are right now in your career. And if you're a starting actor, maybe there's no reason for you to go to a company like real art and spend all this money to create a, you know, creating a beautiful self-tape, right? Or going to a self-tape studio where it's not that expensive I mean, I guess it would be like $200 or whatever but they can really record you on a nice camera with a blue background.
Speaker 2:Well, sag has a free, I think workshop in the city, which there's things like that too.
Speaker 1:resources yeah, and, by the way, that's okay and good, right, the only reason why you would want to up-level your materials and this has to do with you know, businesses, anything and you're a business as an actor is only if you want to show more context into you in space and just up level the marketing. But if you're in a place where you can't afford it and you can only afford a beautiful self-tape in one of those self-tape places, then do that. That's it. Trust me, there are people that get cast from that all the time. Yeah, you know, and you may not be ready for that full scene in space on a Game of Thrones you know what I mean set like we do sometimes, or a Last of Us type of situation. It can be fun and that's great.
Speaker 1:But if all you can do is just, you know, do a self-tape, I would recommend to do that and then slowly you up-level as you go along and you feel more comfortable in you know, with yourself as an actor. But I would say, start with a self-tape. I would try not to do it at home unless you know how to do it at home and do it well. But start with a self-tape which is an easy enough entry with your money and then, once you want to up-level your materials or you feel like you're not getting enough, that's when you can say, okay, maybe I need to up-level the material here. You know what I mean and I'll spend a little bit of money. So if I were to give you advice all the people that are asking about this find a self-tape studio that is really good at what they do.
Speaker 2:They charge $200 an hour, whatever it is, and it's just good, really good material in front of a reader and you're good, you know, and also if you have a self-tape that you made in the past that maybe got you a callback and there was some good feedback there, that's probably a flag that that's a good one to send in, you know, just for getting an agent or whatever it is. If there's a part that it's similar to, I think that's great advice.
Speaker 1:The most important thing is don't let your media page go empty. The important thing is don't let your media page go empty, because if your media page is empty, if you don't have any videos, you're getting sifted out and filtered out from submissions, right. So I would say, because we don't have time as casting directors to look at, you know photos and decide we need proof, and the proof is in the video. So I would say, you know, as an immediate action, go get that self-tape, upload that self-tape, make sure the sound is great and the video is sufficient, and that should be a good way to do it, but don't leave your media page empty. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2:And actually that leads me to my next question, which is this is airing during spooky season and so, Guy, I want to talk about some horror stories, any real horror stories that you can share. I know I won't reveal too much information, but I know you also are behind the table casting things as well, so you have this eye to bring to these. You mentioned things like seeing a lot of silence.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be anything dramatic, but sort of what is there not to do in regards to putting out materials like a real man? The knots? That's a great question. What is the knot?
Speaker 2:The dots like the dots.
Speaker 1:Man, I mean just yeah, the silences I don't believe with. I don't believe in title cards, so no names with phone numbers and stuff like that. They ain't calling you from your title card, right, and they're not even. They don't care that your agent is at the end of the thing or whatever it is. Go directly into the video or you acting, because time is precious. But God, I want to think about horror stories. I could tell you horror stories at RealArk, you know Well, if there's, you know.
Speaker 1:but Well, if there's anything you think that could lead to some helpful advice for people of things. Maybe sometimes actors, you know we think we're doing something in going to produce reels for yourself, um, or something like that, or engage with a company that does that. Um, you're an actor and that is your job and you're there to show acting skills. It's not a passion project, right? So I would say you know you have to focus on the strategy behind it all rather than, like you know, oh, it's fun, it's great to be on set and it's great to create a passion project, but these are marketing materials specifically to sell your business, and you really have to keep it very strict to those you know, to that, so you're able to showcase as quickly as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and yeah. I think if you're doing that and leading with that professionalism, it inherently is fun too, because then you're you're sort of taking it seriously and allowing yourself to do what you love, versus, like you said, maybe just showing up and kind of treating it like oh I'm here, let's see what happens. So exactly, yeah, that's exactly. That's a good point. I think an even better way to get into this sort of like deep dive of demo reels and all things marketing a bit, I developed a surprise game called Real Essentials. So, guy, let's get real, let's do it. Insert cheesy music here. I'm going to throw out a prompt and you simply say yes, or get real, aka no, and then explain a little reason why an actor should or shouldn't include this in their real. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Okay, so yes, or get real.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, or get real, and then you can explain why. And it will just like make it a little flash round here. You answered some of these actually, so montage at the start. I think I know what you're gonna get real get real.
Speaker 2:Okay, so nothing, even if, like there's a yeah, don't do the thing, where it's like you put the exciting thing at the beginning and then expect them to watch that all the way through to the end to get to it yeah, well, I would say is like you know, monta, we want to see dialogue and we want to get hooked by your acting.
Speaker 1:So montage and fast cutting at the beginning is just making us see this like self-serving situation. It's like here I'm looking, here I'm looking and here I'm looking and here I'm looking. You know what I mean. So I would say get real.
Speaker 2:Okay, I love that. Get real. Include a headshot title card. Get real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you did just touch on that as well um, yes, yes, but it needs to be, uh, it needs to match the tone and feel of your reel.
Speaker 2:Yes, tone and feel of your reel. That rhymed, I liked it. So would you say like a fade in a fade in music and maybe a fade out music. But yes, over your scenes. Right, correct? Yes, just to clarify for everybody at home.
Speaker 1:Oh, I have a big one, okay, but, but nevermind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, please this is flexible.
Speaker 1:Subtitles, subtitles, yes. Even if you're in English, even if you're doing it in English, subtitles are a must and I try to get all of our clients to add subtitles to their scenes, but a lot of them don't want to do it and I try to fight them on it. But, same as social media, a lot of them are watching it on the toilet or in their bedrooms or on the stuff, and maybe they're watching three at a time and they have it muted and they have whatever, and they're in a meeting. If you put subtitles, you can hook them in with actually watching the subtitles. So, anyways, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:And it's accessible, which is great too. Yes, we talked about self-tape clips, so I was going to say use of self-tape clips, but I think we covered that a bit. So we'll move into OK clips that have really good acting and maybe the production is even great, but the audio is poor quality. No.
Speaker 1:Get real.
Speaker 2:Get real.
Speaker 1:Don't do it.
Speaker 2:Or get it fixed. Get real or get it fixed, I like it.
Speaker 1:They will forgive picture, but they will never forgive sound. That's one of the rules of filmmaking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that Well, same with this podcast as well. So I appreciate that. Yes, lead role in a student film Would you include like student film things? Again, I guess it goes back to quality.
Speaker 1:Yes and yes, and it needs to look good, right? If it doesn't look good or sound good, I would not include it, but yes, Okay, what about just one line on a network show?
Speaker 2:I think we talked about this a bit too. Okay, no, not, don't get real, that's a yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay.
Speaker 2:We talked about this a little bit too, but again, it's hard to talk about a visual medium via audio. Are you in favor of like showing range, would you say that's that's better than just sticking to one vibe per real Like show. Show range in the best possible light.
Speaker 1:However, stay true to your brand. So Tom Hanks, who is the perfect everyman right, that's his archetype. You know he can be in a comedy and he can be in a drama, but he's Tom Hanks, right. He's still very connected to who he is, as you know, as this everyman. Later on in your career you can obviously expand that, but at the beginning you want to show them. You know you can be a cop and I hate using that, but you can be a cop. You can be the bad cop, you can be the good cop, right. There's different ways to play different things. You can be in Brooklyn Nine-Nine and you can be in Mayor of Easttown, right. Different flavors of genres, but it's very, but you have to stay connected to what it is that you feel like you want to put out there. So I would say you can show range within your brand.
Speaker 2:I love that and that's what makes fresh stories interesting. A lot of the times is seeing a cop with a different perspective, because sometimes we think as actors, you know, oh, I got called in for a cop, I can never be a cop. Yes, you could. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anybody could really be anything. Smoke on Apple TV is an incredible show and it's just a masterclass in characters Masterclass.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. That's my actor homework. I'm going to write that down. Yeah, I think we talked about this too, but labeling every project with text in the little corner, or would you just put like the network emblems?
Speaker 1:if it's a network, uh, you can do. Um, if there is no emblem, then do text. Um, if there is an emblem, do text, you can. You know as much as you know. You can actually, like you know, put in their face.
Speaker 2:This was on a show, then great okay, I've seen a bunch of these so I'm gonna ask you having like a fun blooper or personality moment um, doesn't really.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't really get real okay, get real.
Speaker 2:No, oh, here's another one that this kind of came up with folks footage of you as a background artist. No, you're featured. Okay, I thought that was the answer. Get real, can you tell people why?
Speaker 1:Number one it signals where you are and it signals that if you're willing to put that on your, on your, on your media page, it means that you don't understand the business you know page. It means that you don't understand the business. You know the you know there is background right, and then there is actually being there and doing the work right, and that is just like it's there's. These are two worlds that shouldn't actually touch.
Speaker 1:Sorry, um so if you put yeah, so if you, yeah, so if you put that on there, it's, it's not going to help you. If anything is going to, it's going to. For lack of a better term, give the casting director the ick.
Speaker 2:Hmm, what show did I just watch where they were talking about the ick? Oh, nobody wants this. Yeah, there's something to the professional. Heck is real. There's something to be said too for your resume, right? Because I've seen when people put that on a resume and they maybe try and fudge it a little bit, yeah, and maybe that works for them sometimes, but everybody talks in this business too, so they're gonna know you weren't really on the show acting in a role so just don't, don't fudge it don't fudge the resume yeah, focus on a great self-tape.
Speaker 1:Show them your acting ability. I've cast people that have zero credits, um, but on this feature that we're doing, you know, and but their, their self-tape is incredible and that's it. That's all it took I love that.
Speaker 2:Okay, guy, you mentioned this already as well. We already covered so much but contact info. At the end you said that's a, that's kind of a get real. So what would? How would you say is the best way to end a reel?
Speaker 1:the end, just just fade out. I would say, yeah, fade out. Yeah, they're never going to get to the end of it anyways. So they're not going to read it, they're not going to get to the end of it, they're going to scrub right through it. It doesn't matter how you end it. If you want to end it with like you'd go and like blah, it doesn't't matter. They're never going to get to the end of it, you know. So I'm going to get a lot of casting directors are probably going to.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's. You're not saying they don't watch self tapes. You're saying, in regards to like a three, two minute, no, no, yeah, they watch self tapes, they watch self tapes.
Speaker 1:There's something beautiful about watching self tapes because it's like you're excited to see the people that you invited to send you a self-tape.
Speaker 1:You're excited to see what they're, what the work they're putting in, so they are watching it for sure yeah, um, but reels, they're literally just going like I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I don't like, I don't like, I don't like, I don't like. They know immediately you can't fool them, you can't do it, but they're not gonna get to end of it. So it doesn't matter how you end it. End it with a title card, end it with a picture from you on vacation. It really doesn't matter, am I?
Speaker 2:in my fun. Honestly, I might change mine up and end mine now saying you did it. Oh, thank you for staying here, Just like yeah, hug the camera Congratulations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i's funny. It's like you got to the end. I can't believe it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Don't take that, everyone. Don't take that from me. No, you can, let's all do it. If we all do it together, I think it's kind of fun. Yeah, thank you for being real and playing. You win you, just you win, guy, thank you so much. I have another question, kind of in regards to have adapted to the way casting views, scenes now, reels now, what would you say is the current? You know the word trend is tricky, but in this landscape of entertainment, how do you think you all have evolved.
Speaker 1:We've fought through in the early stages. We fought through like this is fake work, right? And it still exists people saying this is fake work, et cetera. Well, it's not fake because you've invested money or producing it and you got lines and you're saying them and it's, you know, it's on your reel. Good acting will trump any thoughts a casting has about scene creation, right? So it's really not about scene creation, it's about what you bring to the table.
Speaker 1:All the job for us is real art is to put you in context, to shine a light on your brand and, you know, make it fun, right, and give you a piece of media that is impactful enough that you can put on your media page. It's if you, if you are an incredible actor. It doesn't matter if it was from a real quote, unquote feature film, a real show, it's. It's really about the work that is in front of the camera. So what you know, one casting director can say one thing, another casting director can say another thing, or an agent, etc. All we've seen is a curve of it just helping. Also, in this time of no in-person auditioning, it's been very helpful for people to get their foot through the door and you know, and be able to, like, showcase multiple sides of themselves. So you know, it's always going to be there, the fact of like how people perceive scene creation. But it's no different than being in a short film. It's no different than being in anything.
Speaker 1:You're producing the work. You're actually. You're coming here to, to the studio, unless unless it's all a dream, right, but you are coming here to the studio and doing the work. So if you show something really, really great and you prep and you make it look incredible, then it doesn't matter if it's in creation or not. You know it is magic. You are supposed to fool them, right? You're never going to fool them, right, because they've seen enough stuff. But you are supposed to fool them. That's the whole point. It is magic. You are supposed to make them like what is this from? You know what I mean. Start the conversation conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's great and and again, like whether you're fortunate to do it there or you're shooting a short with friends. It's sort of like exactly every this industry is built on people wanting to tell stories on one hand, and then the money aspect on the other. So this is like real arc is kind of a microcosm of that. It's all, it's all. That's what the work is. I got to tell you guys, it's someone investing in a project and you show up, so you're kind of treating it the same, no matter what. And I think if you do bring yourself to things, your your authenticity, your drive, if you treat everything as you would let's say, someone hands you a contract and says you're about to star in the next blockbuster, then that's your job. It's not really your job to worry about anything else.
Speaker 2:Unless you're self taping, then you do have to worry about the lighting, all that stuff. Yeah, these days. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, guy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean there's always going to be trends coming and going and AI is coming in and all that stuff and use it to your advantage. You know as much as you can, I think, as actors, don't shy away from doing it because it's coming and it's here. But I'm also super optimistic. You know, like there are more projects being shot. You know there are. You know I'm looking at us as real art, like we are now shooting an indie feature. That is quite I mean when I say it has a good budget and some star talent in it and people. It's like if we can do it, if we actually are doing it, there's a whole lot more being done out there to me. I see this more of a renaissance of, like the era of quentin tarantino in the 90s and every people, new voices are coming up and I think there's going to be more work all around. So I was very doom and gloom at the end of um. You know, once chad gpt came in and all those things, I was like, oh my God, whatever.
Speaker 1:But actually as an AI like lover you know, I don't think it's going to take away much and a person that's really in it every day and thinking about it, it's like I I'm kind of optimistic cautiously optimistic about, you know, about the world of entertainment in the future. I don't know how we got to that.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know but we're here. We followed the tornado down the rainbow. The house fell on us, the AI house. I think you know, I think, really, if we always are all leading with our humanity as much as we can, I think you know there's a lot of validity to what you just said, and it makes me wonder. You know you touched on your film. Feel free to share more. I mean, by the time this is out, it probably will have been announced.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's. Actually. It relates to RealArk. You know, about a year ago we had an incredible person Her name is Dinah. Reach out to us to RealArk.
Speaker 1:She just sold her major company I don't know, I could probably say this, but she used to be the CEO of HealthAid Kombucha, very, very big company that she started and founded yes, I love HealthAid and she sold in and even with all the money that she made off of it, you know, her number one thing was acting. You know, for her whole life and that's all she wanted to do. So, hey, if this is like your second time or second chance coming into this industry and you're listening to it and you just like want to get into acting, then here you go. What's what's a better inspiring story than dina? So, you know, she came in and we created a whole package and pitched her to agents and managers and she got an agent and a manager through us, um, and then did the auditioning thing. And then then, you know, she came to us a year later and she said I want to do kind of like a film on my life story which is very, very funny, or kind of like a moment in her life, and we just went out and started kind of like writing in with one of our writers.
Speaker 1:Peter Hoare was a fantastic writer. He wrote Standing Up, falling Down with Billy Crystal and he wrote projects for Goldie Hawn and now for Kevin Hart and he loved the synopsis so much that he actually took this on and wrote it and from here to there it just like started kind of gaining momentum. And you know, you never know. Actually, by reaching out to a person doesn't have to be real, but anyone that you feel like that is in your reach, you don't know where that can lead you. To Dinah, I don't think, ever thought that she will be able to, like you know, work with Peter, work with Mia Cusimano, who's our casting director, work with Daniela Eisman, who's our director, and she was the Sex Lives of College Girl director and shameless. They all jumped in because of her amazing synopsis and Peter's script, etc. So just by doing that small little action of like actually engaging with us, all these things are happening. But yeah, we're shooting October 20th and in LA and we're very, very excited. Oh, that's super cool.
Speaker 2:Well, Mazel congratulations. Thank you, thank you, yeah, I can't wait to hear more about that and I wonder you know, just while we have you here, as you're behind the table now, what would you say is your kind of number one piece of audition advice, since you're watching a lot of self you can do. One thing is like be the light in someone's day and make sure that it's it looks good and it sounds good.
Speaker 1:Um, you know I can't touch on talent, because that's what can you do with that? You can't really control that, or what they want, or whatever. So control what you can't control on talent, because that's what can you do with that? You can't really control that, or what they want, or whatever. So control what you can't control, and that is the environment. And even if it's shot on an iPhone, make sure that you're shooting it on an app like Filmic Pro or something that really is of good quality. So that's what I would say. Obviously, the higher you get in the rankings of actors or whatever it is, you can, you can start providing some more creative choices, et cetera. Um, but yeah, I would say is, if you're starting out, make sure that you're getting them some really good audition tapes other reason to say no, then eliminate distraction.
Speaker 2:That's really what it is. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's excellent and you're right. Some of us, you know, we can forget to do the most basic things. I went on an audition once and I it was in person back in those days, remember those for a TV show and I did the scene and the casting director must've had a long day and was literally just like thank you so much for knowing your lines and preparing. Yeah, I was like, oh, did some people like not look at the script? You know?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think just remember the basics, like you're saying that, yeah, and I know it's getting gnarly with like how many pages are being asked, and that's real too. Yeah, yeah and all that stuff, but it's like you got to do it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a case by case thing too, because once you develop that relationship, people understand if you're getting something, sometimes honestly like not within the SAG window when you're technically supposed to have a lot of time for People understand that. So just do the best you can. Everybody, and by listening to something like this, I already think you're in the right direction because you're working on it, you're dreaming about it and just to hit it home, to get back to reels, before we depart, how often would you say an actor has a reel? Now We've kind of taken them through it. How often would you say they should update their reel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's always a work in progress and I think that you know if you are trying to explore a new side right, something that you're passionate or want to show of yourself that is not currently there, you should do it. If the marketing materials are not impactful or like you're not getting auditions right, then you should probably change it up. It's rarely and I'm not saying it's because I'm a scene creation company or anything like that rarely the scene creation company's fault, right, it means that it's just like it's not hitting and that's okay, even if you spend money on it. It's like you don't have to spend more money again, like you, like I said, you can do a self-tape etc. But, um, but if it's not working or you're not getting the results that you want, then just create more and keep creating. You know what I mean. It's not in an interval of six months or a year, or two days or five years. If you're not getting the marketing results guess what? You have to change the ad. You know how many ads we put. You know and how many times.
Speaker 1:You know things don't work. If they don't work, you don't just stop. You just keep creating right and you can create it yourself. You can create it with self-tapes, you can create it with Scene Creation Company. You can create your own movie, your own vertical series.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of budget ranges that you can do and create, but the idea is to keep creating if it's not working and keep creating and keep driving if a piece of media is working. So if you are getting cast as a co-star, as a janitor and I give this always like as a thing and you have that NBC janitor one line on it, make a scene creation as a janitor, but with three pages, and show the casting director who cast you as a follow-up. He, I, I was so inspired by that one line as a janitor on the pit that I decided to expand the world world and I wanted to show you this scene. Show them that you're like, driving towards it, because if a piece of marketing is working, then create more of that, create more of that and create, keep creating more of that I love that.
Speaker 2:You know, I was just envisioning. I don't know why. I guess because a lot of us actors have worked for a catering company before. Never me I'm too clumsy, but if you're going out there with a tray of mozzarella sticks and nobody at the party wants it, you got to go back into the kitchen and get another hors d'oeuvre and then, when people want that, just keep making that.
Speaker 2:And there's something to be said for I said this on here before my agent once told me, get on the train that's pulling into the station. And so you're not pigeonholing yourself. Just because you're creating more, you know, janitor clips or whatever it is, You're actually freeing yourself in a way, because the more work you kind of book, the more people that know you, the more likely soon-ish down the road you'll have opportunities to do more of what you, the roles you really kind of want to do, and like for actors.
Speaker 1:They just need to understand this business, or the casting business is very associative, right, like I don't know if that's the word, but it's. It is associative. It's like they're associates, yeah, they, yeah, they are associating at any point when they're casting. You know when're casting, you know when we you know, when we worked with our casting director, she asked us to put you know a list of, like, the people that we want for each role to like send offers to. You know some named talent, and the only reason why we put that named talent on there because they're associated, they're unlocking this associative thing for us for that character. So it's, it is real when we say there's brand, because it's like association, like how do we associate like these people? You know there's a great actor named Steven Root who's on Barry. You know who plays Fuchs. You know what I mean and he is like, he always plays around that space, but he's made millions doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's okay, and that's okay, and that is totally OK, it's what's ever OK for you. And how many times, friends, do we get an audition and it says you look at the breakdown and it's like this type Like I've gotten in so many times for things where it says you know, young Ben Stiller type or whatever it says, I don't know. So just think about that. That kind of relates to what you were saying and as we wrap up the that's a wrap on the reels I think we should also say the most important thing of all, which is that you shouldn't forget to post it, and we should be posting this baby everywhere. Right, it's got to be on your casting sites. Put it on YouTube, send it out in a newsletter.
Speaker 1:You got to put it everywhere. You know Instagram, youtube, all that stuff. You know tag. You know if you're doing with us, tag us. You know tag people that have the. You know work with people that have a following and then tag them. And you know you can get really nifty about strategy. You could. I mean, there's a whole tagging casting directors and things like that, which I don't think you should do, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it's subjective.
Speaker 2:We actually just dropped a whole episode on networking that touches on that Really, so tune in.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I can't wait to listen. But yeah, put it everywhere, absolutely, and keep creating. Keep putting it everywhere.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put mine everywhere If you're interested. Everybody, like I said, I was delighted to do a scene with RealArk. I had the best time, thank you, I have now posted it. This will be in the future, but it is now posted. If you want to check it out, go check out their other scenes. And before we let you go, guy, we always end each episode with a gotten or a given, so we would love the best piece of advice. You've either gotten or given in this industry. I used to ask for both, but then a lot of the time it's the same thing. So it could be a gotten or a given, but basically the best piece of advice you have.
Speaker 1:Hmm, sorry for the silence. I know that this is like a oh, take your time, but don't do it for the stardom, don't do it for the money, because those rarely happen. You do it because you love it, and that's it. And if you do it because you love it and there's no stakes in it, you know, then you will enjoy it. But if there's too many stakes in it, then you will find yourself bitter and resentful. So don't do it for the money, don't do it for the stardom. Do it because you love it and that's. I think that's what it is.
Speaker 2:I love that guy. That has me emotional. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for that. Thank you so much for being here and we just appreciate you coming on here to help us actors out today.
Speaker 1:So thank you. Thank you so much. This was such a pleasure, and it was great meeting you on set too.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, thank you. That was such a fun day, that was a fun scene, yeah, yeah it was awesome, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
