How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks, breaks down an actor's journey, one topic at a time. Join award-winning actor, writer and host Robert Peterpaul alongside industry talent and experts as they discuss how to build a successful career as a performer and beyond in the entertainment industry. From inspirational casting stories to practical advice on the craft of acting, tune in to expand your skill set and book that role.
Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks
How to Choose the Best City for Your Acting Career with Talent Manager Natasha Matallana Marken
Where is the best place to live as an actor? Join talent manager Natasha Matallana Marken (Rebel Creative)* as she sits down with host Robert Peterpaul to unpack how actors can choose the right home base for them in a self-tape world. From knowing when you're ready to weighing the positives and negatives of cities around the world, we got you covered.
This episode explores:
• The age old question: NY or LA?
• Up and coming productions hubs to consider moving to.
• The honest truth about being a “local hire."
• Building community and representation before relocating.
• A practical checklist of questions to ask yourself before you decide.
• Rapid-fire acting advice from landing an agent to co-star auditions and more.
*Natasha Matallana Marken has been working in the entertainment arena for nearly 20 years. Formerly the founder & President of Take 3 Talent agency, Now, a manager, She comes to Rebel Creative Group with ample experience working with and representing artists in all mediums. Prior to Launching Rebel alongside her partner Sherry Kayne, Natasha spent some time in various positions working in the music industry at MTV, Radio Disney, WPLJ, and then eventually found herself in the modeling and later talent agency world. Formerly the founder & President of Take 3 Talent agency, a position she held for 15 years, alongside running a successful mid-sized office, Natasha personally oversaw Tv/Film/Packaging for T3T’s emerging talent division and developed and launched the careers of several name actors. On screen, some of the projects her client's have led include : James Cameron's Avatar: The Way of Water, Jurassic World: Rebirth, Amazon's The Summer I Turned Pretty, Netflix's Avatar: The Last Airbender, 9-1-1- Lone Star, Hulu's Tell Me Lies, HBOMax's Genera+ion, Netflix's The Night Agent, Netflix's XO, Kitty, AMC's Interview With The Vampire, Paramount +'s Star Trek Strange New Worlds, Netflix's newest hit Black Rabbit and more. Her clients have also graced stages all over the globe in shows like Buena Vista Social Club, Shucked, Hadestown, MJ the Musical, In The Heights, Hamilton, Harry Potter, Ragtime, The Great Gatsby etc.
Natasha holds a BA in music business management, graduated Valedictorian and Summa Cum Laude from FTC in NY. She is a huge country music fan, enjoys musical theater, cruising, fashion, travel, the ocean, a lovely neutral color palette with a touch of gold, and will admit that rom-coms are her guilty pleasure. She can usually be found at her beach house in Cape May NJ or traveling with her husband Dave and their Maltipoo, Toasty.
This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.
Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.
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Hi, I'm Natasha. I'm five feet tall. My dog's name is Toasty. And you're listening to How We Roll.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, Toasty's an icon. When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. Well, how we follow our dreams is uncertain. How we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to How We Roll, a podcast for Actors Podcasting Network. Hi actors. Thank you for tuning back in. It's your friend Robert Peter Paul coming to you from my little studio on a rainy day here in Connecticut. I love our home here. I'm close to my friends and family and New York City for work. This is what works for me right now. And before we get into the nitty-gritty of choosing where to live as an actor, my hope is that you choose a place that you love that works for you. Breaking down today's how alongside me, how to choose the best city for your acting career, is my friend, marvelous manager, Natasha Madalana Markin. Natasha has worked in entertainment for nearly two decades. After spending 15 years as the founder and president of Take Three Talent Agency, she shifted into talent management. In 2024, Natasha launched Rebel Creative Group alongside her partner Jerry Kane, representing artists across Medium. On screen, her clients have led high-profile projects like James Cameron's Avatar The Way of Water, Jurassic World 3Burst, Avaton's Dumb Friday and Freddy, Netflix's Avatar The Last Airbender, Tommy Live, Netflix's The Night Agent, Up3 Netflix's new hit, Black Rabbit. The topic clients have also great agents across the globe. In shows like Blenhead's the Social Club, Shuff, Katie's Town, MJ the Musical, In the Heights, Hamilton, Harry Potter, The Great Gatsby, and many more. Oh, and also on podcasts. Like this one. Yep, she's my manager. Prior to all of this, Natasha cut her teeth in the music industry at places like MTV and Radio Disney. She does hold a VA in music business management, after all. On a human level, Natasha is a huge country music fan, enjoys musical theater, and will admit that rom-coms are her guilty pleasure. She can usually be found traveling with her husband, Dave, and their mouth-food Toasty. Friends, please submit your house on social media at Casting Networks and at Rob Peter Paul for a chance to be featured on a future episode. Now here's how we roll with choosing the best city for your acting career. Natasha, I am so excited to have you on How We Roll today. Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_02:I'm so excited too. I've been I've been watching you do this podcast now for months, and it's it's such a cool endeavor. Really, really smart on your end and casting networks and excited to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Well, we're thrilled to have you join the How We Roll family. And I will say I've been observing you for years now in the way you interact with your clients, including me. I'm so lucky. And you counsel all of us on so many topics. And so I think there's so many topics that you're qualified to cover. One of them is what we're gonna break down today: how to choose the best city to live for you as an actor, you friend listening. And so our listeners are so lucky to have you in their ears right now. Before we kind of get to breaking that down, first of all, very important question here in researching you, which was kind of fun because I haven't really done that since I guess before we first met. I see rom coms are your guilty pleasure, Natasha. So just hit us with your favorite before we dive in.
SPEAKER_02:They are. I love them. Wow, how to lose a guy in 10 days might be my favorite.
SPEAKER_00:That's a good one.
SPEAKER_02:I love Leap Year. I think it's just so like beautiful and special and unique. I don't know. I really enjoyed anyone but you, which is like semi-recent, but really fun and different. I sort of I love that like enemies to friends to lovers trope, right? That's always a fun thing. Yeah. Those are some solid choices.
SPEAKER_00:Those are excellent choices. We've got some Amy Adams. We got some iconic gold dress with Kate Hudson.
SPEAKER_02:And Matthew McConaughey.
SPEAKER_00:Like he was a rom-com star before he was, and then he wasn't.
SPEAKER_02:He literally was like, I am not doing this anymore. And you know, more power to him. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was not a failure to launch for him to become an A-lister, if you know what I did there, but um chem. Now that we've covered that, I want to move into a different location where we're gonna live as actors. And before even looking at all the options we have to outline here today, because I think this is a big thing to try and tackle within our time frame here. What do you think actors can do to kind of hone in on their personal goals as artists in the sense of I think we can begin our careers wherever we are, right? I think you should, you have to begin where you are. And we kind of need to then know who we are and what we want. In some sense, it can change before we move forward. So I would love to start there with you. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_02:For sure. Yeah. I mean, I think as humans, we, you know, I I think in a in an ideal world, we all know what we want. We have a perfect plan, you know, and we check off the boxes as we go along, but none of that's real. And none of that ever really works out exactly as you had hoped. So I think, I think ideally, yes, we should all know uh enough about ourselves as humans, as artists, as performers, um, to get a sense of like, well, what city would be the best place for, you know, for what I'm looking to do to thrive. You know, I know we're gonna break down a little bit about that today, but you know, as a person, if you're looking to pursue a particular path, where the best place to do that is, I think, you know, and we'll talk about New York and we'll talk about LA. But um, if you are a theater lover, you know, your natural inclination is to go to New York, right? Where the opportunities are vast and endless there in that space. If the goal is to be um more in an on-camera world, what people believe is that heading to LA is the answer to that. And that's not necessarily always the case. So I think I think we'll break that down a little bit later. But yes, knowing who you are as a human being will help you make decisions on where you want to live. And ultimately, that's what we're talking about here is like where do you want to lay your head at night? Where, you know, what what location is going to give you joy, what location is not going to give you joy? What are anciliary factors, right? Like relate personal relationships, business relationships. It's it's not easy to make a very strong decision without kind of weighing everybody that, you know, is part of your support system and is part of your life. So, in terms of how you know enough about yourself, I think the simple answer is what's the right answer for you right now, right here, in this moment. Um, it may not be the same answer five years down the line or 10 years down the line.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, trusting your gut. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And so let's move into how to find out where to live in 10 days, in 10 minutes, 10 minutes times six, sixty minutes. So to keep the rom com theme going, a big picture question here. When you have your meet cute with a potential client, when you first meet a client, how much weight do you put on where they're based? You know, self-tapes kind of rule now. Does location matter as much right now?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, 10 years ago, yes. Now, not so much. Um I think before it it made sense to be like in a major city in New York or in LA or close enough to it. But now, yeah, self tapes are pretty much the go-to for the you know, first round of auditions. And with that being the case, it's it's less of it's less important to me when I'm interviewing a client. What is most important to me when I have these conversations with clients is, you know, wherever you are in the world, do you have the capacity, the means, the ability to get yourself to one of these major cities for potential callbacks or, you know, the next steps in the process. But the initial step, you know, with self-tapes being the norm, it no longer really matters. I I prefer actually to meet an actor who's very happy where they are, wherever that is, and where they're and and that their lives are being fulfilled and that there are more options for them than strictly focusing on acting. I think we could go off tangent and we can talk about this for days and months and years. Um, but no, but I mean, uh unfortunately, like a lot of actors are very glued to this business. And sometimes when you are slightly obsessed with the possibility that you will make it, um, you sort of lose sight of everything else that makes the world beautiful. Um, you lose sight of the possibilities that you might find great hobbies, great things that excite you outside of just putting out self-tapes and getting onset. And so essentially, I personally feel like if I meet an actor that is feeling really happy where they are, that has a fulfilled life outside of acting and a great support system, that actually makes them better and stronger. And that strength and that knowledge that comes from all these other interpersonal relationships actually helps make them a better actor and ultimately lead to more bookings than those that focus too much on the individual tape in the moment, that particular role, because there are thousands of roles.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But like what makes them, you know, what what's ultimately going to um enrich their lives as a whole? And ultimately for me, if an actor gets on, you know, on a meeting with me, or you know, we have a phone call and they say, hey, I'm based in Vegas, or I'm based in Texas, or I'm just like, that's fantastic. What do you like to do for fun there? Like, let me learn more about you as a human being because where you are, again, we're focusing on the here and the now, right? Where you are right now is not where you're gonna be in five years or 10 years, or God willing, a role takes you anywhere that you've ever wanted to be, or multiple roles.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love that. Well, you mentioned Vegas, and I'll be there trying to track down Gene Smart on Loving Hacks, although apparently she's gonna be in New York this coming season, which is great. So that's one of the cities that we're gonna touch on in this little warm-up flash round game, Natasha. I just thought it could kind of turn the fire up a little bit. I'm calling it location, location, location. I'll name a location, and you tell me what you think is generally the best about it as a market or what what makes it unique for an actor. Whatever pops into your head first is great, and you reserve the right to change your mind, everybody. So let's get in the car and roll.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:They gave me a soundboard. They shouldn't have done that. They shouldn't have done that. They should not have done that. Okay, we're gonna get into these first two a bit later on, but right off the bat, New York City.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, New York City is it's a cultural hub, right? I mean, it's a city that has so much diversity. Um, it's slightly like unmatched, I think, in that way. I think it's a global center for like arts and entertainment, which is really exciting. We are like titans of industry in a really interesting way. Um, when you go out and about in the city, you go to a club or you go to a bar, you go to a restaurant, and you meet people, um, you're not strictly meeting actors. You are meeting people, you know, from the financial space. You are meeting people that um live in the fashion world, right? We are one of the fashion capitals of the world.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, there's there is so much more to our city um than people think. And and learning from all of these different POVs and these perspectives um actually makes, I think, me a better human and so many people that live in New York City, you know, better. Better, not not that New York City is better, but better people in the in the entertainment space. Because ultimately, like, you know, being a great actor is also about having lived experience, right? Um, you can't speak about pain until you've seen it. You can't speak about the hustle and the bustle till you've lived it. So I definitely think that, you know, if you are a person, an actor, a human, a creative of any kind, um, that thrives in an environment that just is so massive and yet at the same time so tight-knit, New York is the place that you want to be.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. And we're gonna get into the next one in a moment as well. LA, what would you say that's best for?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I think LA is, you know, the there are a lot of positives and negatives. Uh LA was and will always be Hollywood, right? It will be the the ideal, the the thing that we all, you know, hope to achieve ultimately. But LA has gone through a lot of changes. I think LA has definitely suffered a little bit post the pandemic, post the strike. Um, tax incentives in the city, you know, of Los Angeles have unfortunately cut a lot of their production short. Um, and I think that um there's a lot of misconception there. But LA is absolutely beautiful. Me personally, if I could take the hustle and the bustle and the excitement of New York and put it in the weather that exists in LA, I'm there. I am I'm a beach gal myself. Like, so personally, I might talk a little shade about LA, but it's it's actually because I'm just straight up jealous.
SPEAKER_03:I feel that.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, I'm so, so jealous. I'm going there next month and and I'm gonna be there for a significant period of time. But um, yes, it is it's always lovely to be able to see both sides. But yes, LA, something that I think might be unique to LA um is it is networking. I think the opportunity um in LA for networking is really massive. I think um, you know, just off the cuff, you have naturally you have more premieres, right? There are more Hollywood premieres in LA. I think for various reasons. Obviously, weather timing, definitely one of them. Another reason is that there is a lot of production on the West Coast, whether that is Vancouver or whether that is California or whether it is Utah or whether it is Vegas, as we just talked about. Um, and so cast and crew, you know, naturally are going to head that way for said premieres. And I think those premieres provide a lot of opportunity for actors as they're rising up, right? Getting to go on those carpets, getting to socialize. Outside of premieres, there are a lot of networking opportunities for actors that join different sort of uh, you know, groups, like for example, members of the television academy. They provide so many fantastic opportunities for actors to go and mix and mingle and you know, meet creatives and um and ultimately, you know, I think LA is a really solid space for that, right? For someone who is very good in that space. Other than, yeah, I mean, the weather, there are a lot of fantastic castings and there's casting opportunities on both sides, right? There are a lot of projects in production in both places.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but I think for for LA specifically, I think it's also important for folks looking to move out there that aren't from there to understand that while it is a city, it is not like New York City. It is not a location where you could potentially do a casting at one o'clock and then a casting at 2:30. Like there's no universe where the traffic will allow you to do that. They do not have that sort of transportation system in place. And also, you know, things, even if they feel close together, are quite a hike. Everything in New York pretty much lives in the midtown area, give or take, right? And so you can bop around from one place to the other. With LA, it's it's a little more scattered. Um, and that is a little bit different. But again, it's definitely Hollywood. It's definitely a bit of the glitz and glam. And it's it's the place that I think a lot of folks ultimately hope to end up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, you mentioned traffic. Speaking of, we're gonna shift into the fast lane here with this car. We're gonna put the pedal to the metal, and I'm gonna name a bunch more places to you, maybe ones that aren't known for being as iconically associated with the industry, although some of them are nowadays. And you just say like the first thing that pops into your head, so we can fly through these ones here. The next one has been on the rise. So, Atlanta, what would you say that's the best for in your opinion?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, um, I think Atlanta has a has a really um unique urban market, if that makes sense. Um I think Tyler Perry really created um a fantastic hub there and and has a what's the best way to explain it? Basically has like a real handle on the city and and its people. And and I think he's done a brilliant job of creating, especially in the pandemic, I mean, what he was able to pull off and to achieve when so many others couldn't. Like it's such a testament to him. Um, but yes, Atlanta, Atlanta is interesting. Atlanta has a bit of the warmth of LA, but also a bit of the city vibe of New York.
SPEAKER_00:I like that. Speaking of warmth, somehow this car is gonna speed over to Miami. What's Miami the best for?
SPEAKER_02:Fashion.
SPEAKER_00:I love that.
SPEAKER_02:Miami, Miami is a fashion space, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, Chicago.
SPEAKER_02:Windy. It is. It is. Um, I mean, there are there are a couple of cool productions that shoot in Chicago. I think the bear is out there. Um I know that the Chicago PDs and the meds and um a lot of the procedurals. Um, however, there while there are casting offices directly in Chicago, they're also casting these projects out of New York.
SPEAKER_00:That's true as well.
SPEAKER_02:Interestingly enough, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, we're gonna go to a different sort of fashion hub, which we might talk about later on. London. What's that the best for?
SPEAKER_02:London is fantastic for theater. They have quite the scene, right? The West End over there is pretty much the Broadway of that side of the world. They would say that we're the West End of our side of the world, but what can we do? Um, I think let and London also has a thriving um TV and film space at the moment. I mean, the the Emmy winning uh group from adolescence will give you that answer right off the bat, right? They are creating really propulsive and fantastic work out there, and and it's a huge opportunity for actors that maybe want to see what things look like on the other side of the Atlantic.
SPEAKER_00:And to continue this propulsive game, Australia.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my, Australia. I that's I mean, that's a fantastic production hub. They do a lot of stuff. They they birth a lot of real solid actors, a lot of talent coming out of Australia. Um, all the agents and managers are looking to spoop them up. Um, but yeah, there is there's a lot, a lot there, a lot of production. I think Netflix has like three or four shows that they have lined up in the coming months that are gonna start shooting out there. So it definitely has has grown in a really fantastic way.
SPEAKER_00:So fighting not to do my Australian accent and make everyone scared. Okay, me too.
SPEAKER_02:Mine is terrible.
SPEAKER_00:Nicole Kidman's here. Vancouver.
SPEAKER_02:Uh the Hollywood of the North, right? I mean, that's what that's what they're saying. Um, a lot of production, a lot of opportunity, some fantastic agencies, places like the Characters Agency. I share a couple of clients with. Definitely a cool place to visit um and to shoot and to uh work there for, you know, bits of pieces of time. Um, I have not yet had a client, I've had a lot of clients work there. I've not had a client say that I wanted that they wanted to relocate there quite yet. But that's not to say that it's not a great opportunity um or a great source of opportunity for so many actors. I think actors on the come up, folks like looking to book some co-stars and get stuff that um, you know, that will help build out their resume. I think Vancouver is a really solid option for transparently. And I think all of Canada right now is um is really moving in the direction of creating. And you'd be surprised. I mean, it's always been there, um, which is really interesting. If you go and you look back at like some of your favorite shows, you'd be surprised there was always sort of a unit in Toronto or in Vancouver, but but more so now than ever, um, because of, you know, again, everything in our business is because of the money and because of the cost of, you know, creation. But tax incentives and all of that are really strong out in Canada. And so there's a lot of opportunity there now.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. That's good to know. We were gonna fly over to Vancouver again later on, but I think you covered that pretty nicely. So the last one of this little flash round, again, we're giving you all sort of a blanket overview before we break down a few more things, would be Nollins. What do what do we have to say about Oh, I was like, wait, what? New Orleans. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I mean, again, it that that's a city that I think is used a lot um for productions that have a particular period in mind, right? Because it's it is so culturally vast um when it comes to things like, you know, in the Victorian era, for example. And obviously, you know, it has such a beautiful music background, musical background as well. Um, I think that it lends itself very much to stories of the past a little bit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Again, a place that I think would be really fantastic to live for living and for your life, not necessarily a place that I would suggest someone to go move to for the purposes of growing opportunities in the acting space.
SPEAKER_00:Well, what would you say about being, I guess, a bigger fish in a smaller pond, in the sense of even LA, if you're going there for theater, not not many people are going to LA for theater necessarily, although that it's changing a little bit. What would you say about that? I guess it depends on your goals, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it fully depends on your goals. I think LA, um, you know, going sort of jumping back to a little bit of what I said earlier about New York and LA and sort of what makes New York unique.
SPEAKER_00:Unique New York, unique New York. We should have done that too. Unique New York.
SPEAKER_02:Um but yeah, I think I think the thing that makes LA unique, whether you look at this as a positive or a negative, is, you know, is all um subjective. But everyone in LA is in this industry in some form, in some way. And if they are not actually in the industry yet, they are striving to be in the industry. They're on the struggle bus to becoming an actor or a writer or a producer. Like a fun story, you know, I have. Um, I went and rented a car in LA a couple like two years ago or so. And I'm standing on this line, like endlessly trying to get this car. Other people are standing on the line before me. Um, and the gentleman looks at my, because we were all handing in our credit cards trying to get all this like checkout done. And the gentleman looks at my card and sees that at that point I owned a talent agency. Um, and the credit card specifically said talent agency. Well, I got pushed to the front of the lawn. Um, and I didn't know why. I was like, oh, I don't like have a membership here. I don't have points. Like none of this actually like warrants, but I was just like, great, awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Why?
SPEAKER_02:Well, because the gentleman behind the desk was pitching me his headshot and resume and hoping that I might meet him as an actor. Later that same trip, ironically, um, I went to Verizon because my phone comped out and didn't want to work. And the folks at Verizon were all like sort of up in arms. And then they said, Oh, we have a fantastic gal who's one of our IT folks. I'm gonna have her come out and work with you. And she was wonderful, brilliant, was able to make it work. I didn't have to pay the$1,200 to buy a new phone. It was, it was a blessing.
SPEAKER_00:That is a blessing.
SPEAKER_02:And while, you know, we are waiting for um certain things to happen between phone to phone, uh, she begins to tell me how she got there and why she's and I because basically I complimented her and said, like, you're brilliant at this. Like, did you go to school for IT and tech? Like, how did you get started? And her answer was, no, I'm here. I moved to LA to become an actor. And so, and there are so many more stories like this. There was a waiter who handed me his manuscript because he was a writer. LA is is very much this space, and it's very difficult to sort of learn and grow um who you are as a human being, your foundational knowledge when everybody is sort of doing the exact same thing. So that's something to think about.
SPEAKER_00:That's interesting. And to that I say, can you hear me now? Is that that Verizon? Is it well this is? I think it was. Okay, I'm like, or is that Sprint? Is Sprint even a thing anymore? I would love to know. I guess while we're here, I know the world has changed so much. What would you say is the most interesting pitch you've gotten from someone in person that's worked out? Has there been someone that's done that to you at like a coffee shop or in line somewhere and then it actually worked out and they became your client?
SPEAKER_02:Wow, that's a great question. Um that well, a somewhat recent one happened. It wasn't necessarily someone like completely cold pitching at like a coffee shop, um, but it was someone that uh was uh seated at the table next to myself and my husband at a restaurant once, um, who was sort of overhearing me talking about frustrations, venting, a casting director, a project, an actor, like that sort of stuff. And came up to me and was like, Hey, I'm sorry, like I was eavesdropping, but I'm actually an actor. I love your email. He sent it, and interestingly enough, like he really was an actor with some solid credits. And um, and yeah, and we took a meeting and this was you know, not that long ago. We're still in conversations, um, but it's definitely looking positive. And I think it it could happen from time to time. It's yeah, it really, really depends, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'll be crossing my fingers for you, buddy. I feel like that stuff happens a lot in New York City because of, or more often, maybe I have no data here, but because of what you said, which is that it's a little bit more unusual. There are other types of folks around there, something to consider as well. You know, it's like, where are you going to be able to build your community?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, you know, and like I said before, I think uh I think the reason that LA has um all of these different networking opportunities, things that are sort of set at certain locations is exactly because of what you just said, is that it's a lot harder to create that community organically. Um, where I think uh New York and its theater space, it's a very niche space, but it's very tribe, if that makes sense. I don't know if that's the best word, but um, but when you get into that community, you pretty much stay in that community and you grow, you know, within it and then outside of it as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love that. And I love LA too. I mean, I I really do love LA.
SPEAKER_02:I love LA so much. And honestly, I think I think the other positive to LA, I will say this because I think this should be included in what we're talking about, um, is that it is the city. Well, while we were talking about community, which I think is kind of funny, but it is the city of like generals and coffees and meetings. Like casting and and executives and producers in LA are so much more welcoming to the idea of sitting down with an actor, um, having a larger life conversation and a larger career path conversation, I think, than in most cases in New York. Like I have some fantastic colleagues in New York that I absolutely love and that I would lean on when I have a great actor doing something and say, hey, like I would really love for you to meet this person. I would love for you to um to know their body of work. And they will take those meetings, but they're just less, like there's just less of them, if that makes sense. It's it's not nearly as common. Um, where I do feel like LA, I think I I blame it on the weather because to be honest, in LA, it's beautiful and sunny every day. And casting is like, great, I'll go to have coffee any single day, I'll make this happen. Where in New York it's like most of the time when you have these asks, unfortunately, it's like a hundred, it's it's like either a hundred degrees outside and like sticky and humid, or it's the polar opposite and it's like 25 degrees outside, and nobody wants to leave their comfortable offices or home to make that happen.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But LA does have that, that sense of community, which I think, you know, can be really helpful as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think it's so personal, right? It's sort of like, do you want to constantly be surrounded by the industry? Does that motivate you or does it overwhelm you? And everybody's different because I know people that live in LA and they walk down the street. And I'll say specifically, I had a friend who walked down the street, saw Judy Greer, who's an awesome performer that we love, had written a screenplay that they couldn't really get out there, and they wrote it with her in mind. They happened to walk by each other, they kind of lightly, in a friendly way, pitched it to her. It's on Hulu, and she's in it. It happened. So that's something I think unique to LA as well. Although, of course, you can run into people in in New York. Now, you know, we've talked about New York, LA. I want to just hop over to what people are starting to call Hollywood East, which is New Jersey. Fist bump. I could do that because you know it's my hometown, and that's why I have big hair. Netflix is uh building a massive state of the art film and production studio on the former Fort Monmouth Army base in New Jersey. I know they already have offices in Jersey City, things are happening. What do you make of all this? I mean, I kind of clumped New Jersey and New York together a bit now. But what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_02:So Netflix has been trying, has been putting their stamp on the East Coast a lot in recent years. I think folks are not even net, like some folks are not even necessarily aware. I have a client like starring in a TV series that was entirely shot on the Brooklyn stages for Netflix. And a lot of people are like, oh, Netflix is in Brooklyn. I had no idea. So like Netflix has has been inhabiting a couple of smaller little places here on the East Coast, as I think that they've been investing more obviously into this big production hub that they're creating and these massive stages. But I definitely think it's going to make a huge impact. I think New Jersey provides a fantastic landscape that almost can mirror a lot of major cities on screen. They have obviously their southern shore, their the Jersey shore, which essentially goes down miles and has those beautiful, like sprawling, opulent houses along the beach coastline, right? And then on the flip side, they have the more inner city and you know, and and the vibes here in like northern Jersey. So I think that the landscape provides a really fantastic um foundation for a lot of production. And I think they've started to see that. I think the tax incentives, again, are definitely there, which has started to lean them um into the East Coast. I think unfortunately the fires in California have become a big concern for a lot of these major studios. Um and so I think New Jersey sort of answers a problem. You know, it is sort of the solution to a problem that they sort of are seeing develop in other places. And it's quite exciting. I mean, I think it's going to give some of the New York studios a run for their money. I think Steiner and Silver Cup and Kaufman Astoria. Like I think I definitely, and I think they're already starting to feel the little bit of that heat, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because movies are already shooting, especially for Netflix. One uh one of my clients is starring um Obasa Jennifer Lopez in a in in a new movie that she's doing out here or in New Jersey. I say out here because I have a house in New Jersey. So for clarity, yes. Um, but I am on the Upper West Side at the moment. Um, but yes, there there is a lot of production that has been happening in New Jersey. It's sort of always sort of sat in the background to New York for so long. I think when they finally create and open these studios, I think it's going to be wild and crazy and it's going to give people even more reason to feel comfortable staying on the East Coast and not necessarily feeling the need to flee to the West.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, what what about being bicoastal? I think that's the dream for a lot of actors, right?
SPEAKER_02:A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00:It can be attainable. It's not always attainable at first, but do you think that's a great goal to be able to have absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, if yeah, listen, if you have the means and the capacity, and you know, what's interesting is yes, you do need a you need you need some financial foundation to be able to say you're truly bicoastal. But but truthfully, like an actor can become bicoastal because they have family on two coasts, you know. Being a local hire, it's a two-parted thing. Casting asks this question and they're very specific about it in many cases. Where are you currently? And can you be a local hire? Because those are two different things, right? Where you are currently, you might be in Texas, you might be in um Kalamazoo, you might be in Utah, you might be in New Jersey. It really doesn't matter. Um, but ultimately, like, can you be a local hire? And the answer to that really falls in do you have the means and capacity to fly yourself to any of these locations? Um, and then do you have a support system, a family member, a buddy, someone whose couch you could essentially stay on if necessary? Or do you want to pay for a fancy Airbnb while you're there? And if you can do one or the other, then you can be a local hire in any of these places. And you could essentially consider yourself bi-coastal, tri-coastal, whatever. You know, at the end of the day, it really just comes down to, you know, what does your, what does your team look like? And I by team, I don't mean agents and managers and publicists. I mean, you know, your home team, the people that can help support you and help you get to that next step.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love that. I mean, I was so grateful to just shoot something and I think about how fast the turnaround was, which was so exciting. It was like the next day I had the fitting and then I had to be on set. And if you kind of say you're a local way you're not, you can get yourself into trouble.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or just you could totally wash out your check because you'll end up having to pay for a hotel or something. So it's better to be honest and really think about this stuff, like you're saying.
SPEAKER_02:A hundred percent. I I always tell my clients that like let's be honest and up front. And sometimes, you know, listen, sometimes your tape is so fantastic and you know, casting is really responsive to the work. Every once in a while they will be willing to call you and say, hey, you know, is it at all possible for them to be realistically here tomorrow for a fitting? And if that's not the case, then obviously they can't push it forward to their producers and to the higher ups. But yeah, it is ideal to always be honest, always be realistic, uh, and especially during specific seasons. Like for example, if you are on the East Coast or on the West Coast in the winter time, um, and you tell your reps that you're local to a particular city, or you tell casting you are, there's a much stronger likelihood that your flight does not make it to wherever it is you have to be the day before or the day of a particular fitting for a shoot. So, and that's oftentimes a concern. And that's oftentimes why casting will say they have to be physically in LA in order for me to consider them for this project or that project. So for any viewers and people watching this, I think that's the greatest takeaway is understanding that casting does not not want to give you the opportunity. They just want to be realistic about whether or not you can accept the opportunity and they don't want to um take any chances with regards to their production that perhaps they cast an actor that can't show up that day because then everybody looks bad.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a really smart reminder. I wonder as we move on here, are there any of the cities that we've mentioned or any surprising cities or regions that you would like to bring up where you think actors can really build credits and start their career?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I'm not sure that there's a place like a like a full-time, like a space where full-time I would say like you can absolutely really build a career, but I think that you would be surprised. A lot of actors, name actors, are looking to create production hubs in places that sort of never had them or places that we sort of overlook. And a surprising location for production that people have not thought of is actually Thailand. They are producing so many incredible projects as we speak, and a lot of the studios and networks have actually decided to move some of their productions there, um, also because of the beautiful landscape, the lush rainforests, and also the city um foundation. So there's a lot of opportunity there. I think Vegas, interestingly enough, is one of those places. I know that Mark Wahlberg has been actively looking to um expand over there. He's got studios that I believe are getting started or, you know, they're they're breaking ground on. Um, and I'm interested to see how that sort of develops because it is so close to LA that a lot of the Vegas actors will essentially head that way. But it's also like so close to LA that a lot of folks are comfortable sort of living in that space as well, right? And I think a lot of actors, a lot of humans just prefer it for a variety of reasons. And as a result, I think that it is a city that we should keep an eye on. I don't know that it's the place to move tomorrow, but I definitely think it's a place to keep an eye on.
SPEAKER_00:Well, roll the dice and maybe you'll hit the jackpot. Vegas. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Don't lose your shirt.
SPEAKER_00:I probably would, Natasha. For actors listening who maybe are torn between staying where they are and making that change. Do you have any advice on a checklist or a set of questions or something they can ask themselves before deciding?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think that the first thing that I would ask myself as a human, not necessarily even as an actor, is, you know, I the first thing that I would look at are, like I keep mentioning, all of your interpersonal relationships, all of the people whose lives would be affected by this decision that you might make, right? You know, if your parents are still, you know, are are here, are in the picture or are not, you know, do you want to be significantly far away from them? If your, you know, is your spouse or significant other comfortable with this move? Do they have other sorts of things going on? Your family, your kids, like um, again, this is adult actors, but even youth actors, like ultimately, um, is it the best decision for the family as a whole? Uh, and these are things that right off the bat, you should be asking yourself. Number two, I think, is will I be happy living in this place even if I don't make it as an actor, or even if I don't see the success or the growth that I am hoping for or looking for? Because that's really important, again, you know, as individuals for us to be happy with the place that we are laying our head at night. You know, is the climate where I want to be? Are the people, like I said before, like are there people to meet and learn from and grow and build communities? Are they there where I'm looking to go? Right. Do I know anyone? You know, let's say you are single and you're just looking to like make a change. Do I know anyone where I'm going? Like, do I have any support system? Is there anyone that's going to be able to keep me on track, keep me accountable? Am I represented? I think that's also a really important question that we can dive into a little bit. If you are represented where you are at the moment, uh, having that representation, especially during a transitional period, is really important because that representation could potentially introduce you to representation where wherever it is you're looking to go, whether that is regionally in a place like Atlanta, or whether that is you're moving from New York to LA, you know, how can that representation help you build out a team? Are they able to, you know, provide additional insight into, you know, how to be successful in that particular location? Going to a city you've never been to with no representation and no friends and no family and no uh support system, it's challenging. It's not impossible. I've seen people do it, but it's like you're you're starting 95% behind the eight ball. And that's difficult most of the time, right? Um, if you have a friend there, if you have someone in your community, if you have someone that can show you the ropes, that's going to make things a lot easier for you. So I think that's probably the first, you know, or or one of the first things that I would definitely look at in terms of a checklist. Um, and are the opportunities there in line with what you're trying to do? I know we touched on this very briefly at the beginning, but like, yeah, I mean, there's a small fish, you know, big pond scenario, of course. I don't know many people that move to LA for theater, transparently. I know you threw that in there earlier.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Sure, there probably would be some cool opportunities, but also there's not a ton of theater in LA, right? Um, you know, that there are two or three really great theaters, right? And but oftentimes, similarly to the big TV and film projects, casting happens in New York and it happens in LA. Um, so like, and they'll cast from anywhere essentially for those theaters. So you don't necessarily need to be a local hire for that theater. On the flip side, you know, in New York, if you want to do theater, like the sky is the limit, right? There's Broadway, there's off Broadway, there's off off Broadway. There's so many lanes, so many theaters, and we're so grateful that that exists. If you're looking to, you know, do animation, for example, like you can live anywhere in the world for that, right? So it it really sort of doesn't matter. It's it what matters is like, do you have representation in the place that you're trying to go? And most important or in the place that you're in, and can you get some representation in the place you're trying to go? That feels like those are really important and integral to, you know, what you're going to want to do next.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I think those are great tent poles. And it's it's tricky, everyone, because this is a subject that's very personal and specific, and you can't quite as blanket cover it anymore because of self-tapes, which gives us a leg up, right? Like now more than ever, it gives you a bit more power to live where you want to live because you you can still get seen. Of course, we talked about before, can you get there? That's a whole other story. But it's so personal to you. So the more you can ask yourself these questions and unpack it and even just think about, okay, I'm gonna take a leap. Maybe I don't know anybody in another state. Think about what Natasha was saying. How can you set yourself up for success by making a community? Can you find acting classes there? Can your current agent refer you to somebody? I mean, these are really smart things to consider. It's hard to just show up somewhere with a suitcase, like really starry-eyed anymore and singing N-Y or whatever it is, you know. So I think that's smart.
SPEAKER_02:That's funny. I was actually gonna go with the um the landing at LAX with nothing but a cardigan.
SPEAKER_00:Hey. And a dream.
SPEAKER_02:A dream and a cardigan. Um but yeah, I mean, that's ultimately that's all that's ultimately like that's ultimately what what you have to decide, right? There are there are ways to build community, of course there are. And and like I said before, like belonging to certain um alliances, um, becoming members of, you know, the committee for um, you know, the Academy Awards and for the Emmys. And um, and it's it's actually a lot easier than a lot of actors think. Um, you know, you just sort of have to have like that one credit to essentially get into the TV Academy and apply and you know, hope they they get you in. But there are really cool opportunities once you get there to make a community for yourself and to build friendships and to build relationships. So I think that there's actually more of that in LA than there is in New York, interestingly enough. So for um, but yes, super personal decision. But ultimately, my piece of advice is go where you are going to grow. Whether that is growing as an actor, growing as a human, um, growing your support group, your family, whatever that looks like for you. But ultimately, go where you grow.
SPEAKER_00:That's beautiful. Go where you grow. I'm gonna write that on my forehead and look at it in the mirror. It reminded me of the Ben Platt song, too, where it's like, well, that's let's grow as we as we go.
SPEAKER_02:Go as we go, which is also very valid. That is what's gonna happen. You know, this you could watch this podcast this week and think something, and five years from now, you could rewatch it again and be ready to make that next journey or that next change. And um, because we do, we grow as we go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And don't be afraid, take the pressure off, grow where you are right now. I think if you're able to sort of the word exhaust maybe sounds extreme, but exhaust the options around you and build the network where you are, that's gonna set you up for even more success when you move.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And before you move, I think also you should ask yourself, like, have I done everything that I can do here? You know, have I have I checked every box that I can? Have I, if I'm I'm interested in theater, have I gone to every EPA and every ECC? Have I tried to be seen? Have I, you know, have I actively, you know, made the effort to get representation? And if I have representation, you know, have I had every conversation with them that I can to, you know, make the m best of where I am right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's really that's also a question to ask yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a great question. And because all these things evolve, right? Tax credits, where things are being shot. So ultimately. It's gonna keep changing. You want to be happy where you are.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And I I had a client that moved to LA far too quickly, a couple of years back, right before the pandemic, and and post the pandemic, like they're kicking themselves about it all the time because they left a place that now is a huge hub with regards to production and has great tax incentives. And they went somewhere that didn't for a really long time. And now it's complicated and they really can't get at, you know, they they built a family, there's a situation there, like they can't exactly like flip the script that quickly. But yeah, I mean, being really like, yes, do what trust your gut, do what feels right, go where you can grow, but also be methodical. Take your time. You know, this is a big decision, it's a life decision, right? Because outside of acting, um, outside of our business, you are also putting yourself somewhere where like relationships will be formed and where they will grow. And and that will ultimately play a part in what your next steps are in life. And so it's just much bigger than this. I think that that's also really important. I mean, I know this is an actor's podcast, and we should be talking about, you know, drive like the drive that it takes and making it, but like sometimes making it is more than what you think it is. And it's it's it's an overall 360 approach to have you made it. Are you both successful and happy? Is that possible? Can you do both? You know, that's a whole other topic for a whole other podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, that euphoria only sustains you for so long before you come back down to reality. And if you don't like your reality and the ground you land on, then that's gonna be really tough. Because I try to ask myself all the time, what am I doing this all for? And what what are you doing it for? Is it because you love it and your friends and family? Are there other reasons? So I mean, it's good to recenter yourself in that regard. Because again, like these things are very fleeting. It's up and it's down. But if you're in a place right now, wherever you are, wherever you're listening from, you're where you're supposed to be. I'm turning this into a rom-com again, Natasha. You're where you're supposed to be. Love is around the corner. No, but I really I really do think that. I think we're all where we're supposed to be in any given moment. And even if you make a mistake, you move somewhere, it blows up in your face. It's gonna be okay. You can always pick up your uh your bootstraps. What do they say?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, pick yourself up by your bootstraps.
SPEAKER_00:By your bootstraps. My aunt says that she's picked herself up by her bootstraps so many times, they're tied around her ears. That's the the joke of the family.
SPEAKER_02:But it makes a lot of sense. And listen, I think we all have, right? At the end of the day, we all have had to do that. And and I think I think there's a beauty in reinvention.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. You're giving us all the quotes. And I want to continue that right before we let you go. We're gonna play another game. This segment is called casting keywords, and you're gonna just have, let's say, two, three minutes to throw out the best pieces of advice you can for actors based on the keyword I give you. So I'll give you a keyword you're familiar with, and you just name that first piece of advice that pops into your head. Are you ready to play?
SPEAKER_02:I'm ready to play.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna kill it. Okay. You're such a treasure trove of knowledge that we gotta talk about more than just locations with you. Okay. Getting an agent.
SPEAKER_02:Make sure that your materials are really solid. Uh, make sure that everything that you put out there is the best reflection of who you are. Send great sides if you have them, scenes, real clips, um, and really just a fantastic photo. Oftentimes that's really what you need.
SPEAKER_00:That's excellent. Okay, the slate. Slating.
SPEAKER_02:Slating can be very boring. And my suggestion always is to follow directions. Casting has very specific directions, and don't necessarily stray from those. But once you have given, you know, those specific analytics, your height, your name, your age, if you are interested in giving that last piece of information. Um, you should try to do something that showcases some personality, just something that's unique about you. I feel like you, Robert, have like sometimes like sang the last part of whatever it is you say.
SPEAKER_00:I don't even notice. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I yes, but you know what? That's actually that's what makes you you, and that's what makes you beautiful. And I think that that is probably surprisingly something that probably makes casting continue to click to the next part to watch your tape and is excited and really wants to reach you on, and hopefully you're the choice.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you. I love that. Yeah, I think it's do what feels authentic to you, but follow the instructions, like you said. Speaking of self-tapes, what's your your general piece of advice there?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's pretty much the same. I think self-tapes need to be um, you know, all instructions followed, but ultimately you've got to give this role um, you've got to give this role you like the best version of you that you can. I think ultimately there are thousands of actors that can regurgitate material and and say the words, but they can't say the words like you do. And ultimately, you know, what casting just wants to see is what your take is on it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Like that's smart. It's a journey. General meetings, those are exciting and rare, but I think they can be a little intimidating for people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, general meetings. Um literally, my best advice for general meetings is be yourself. That is what we want to see. I know it's a bit cliche, but you know, going back to the conversations we had earlier, I want to learn the most about a person outside of their act, you know, their acting pursuit. General meetings go really well if you talk about your hobbies, things that make you unique. You know, ultimately, you know, where are you from? Where do you want to go? You know, find things that could potentially be relatable between yourself and the casting director or the executive or the agent or whoever it is you are taking a general meeting with. And that ultimately is going to lead to better conversation and a great result. It's also important to know though, and I will say this to protect all my agent and manager friends general meetings do not mean that you're going to get a job. Um, general meetings do not always lead to a job. But what general meetings can do is build a foundation of knowledge between yourself and the casting director or the producer, the creative person you are meeting, so that when the time comes, if an opportunity arises that you are right for, they'll have that information organically in their minds from the conversation you had. Um, and most likely they'll suggest that you tape on it or get the opportunity to, you know, meet a creative on the project. And then ultimately, if you are, you know, one of two at the end of the day, knowing that team, having that initial relationship, that initial conversation can only help you when they're making a final decision between you and someone else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's awesome. It's such a human-first approach. So as much as you can humanize it, it's like meeting friends at a party, you know? Sure. How do you like to talk with people? You don't want really someone sitting there droning on like their accomplishments. You you want somebody talking about, you know, their family farm, wherever it is, and how they grew up and all that kind of cool stuff.
SPEAKER_02:And that's typically where you'll find some common ground. And I think this business can be so transactional that having that common ground is so priceless.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and we all need each other. That's the way this business runs. Can't have one without the other. What about co-star auditions? I think those can be a little tricky for people. I mean, this used to be when I like when I got my first one, it's like, I want to show you I can act, but just saying hey, the line's hey, but I'm gonna show you. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, just say the line.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, you you need to, like you said, just say the line when it comes to co-star auditions. But if the lines are short, if there's not a lot of them, um, doing two or three takes also might help a casting director get a better sense for your personality and also a sense for your ability to make adjustments. I think that co-star auditions are a fantastic way to get your foot in the door. It's a great way for for casting to know who you are. And ultimately, you know, a couple of co-star auditions on your resume, it's it's a building block. You know, it's no different than, you know, working in the mail room at CAA until you become a power agent. You know, we all have to start somewhere. And so co-star auditions should not be uh looked at as a bad thing. They should be looked at as, you know, as a stepping stone.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And they're a win. I mean, it's it's tough to even get that. So if you got that, you're winning, y'all. Just have fun with it.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, the last one here is best city to live. Gotcha. No, you don't just say that. You don't just say that. We covered a lot of them. Just kidding. Thank you for playing. Like, oh no, I'm not doing that. I know. No, no, you don't have to share that. Thank you for playing casting keywords. I know I gotta let you go. We always end with a gotten or a given. So the best piece of advice you've either gotten or given in this industry, welcome to share both as well.
SPEAKER_02:I would say the best piece of advice I'd ever gotten was that nothing that we do in this business is changing lives. You know, nothing, even though there may feel there may, they may seem like these timelines are are immovable, like, you know, something is due at 105 or something is due at 125. And I know that's very specific, but ultimately at the end of the day, if you are five or 10 minutes late on an audition or a submission, you know, unless something is quite literally on fire, which is so rare, typically we can accept that, you know, and and especially if you've asked for that extension ahead of time. I think, you know, I always had the when I was coming up in this business for many, many, many years, I always felt this like internal fear, fire, whatever you might call it, to get everything done perfectly and on time and specifically and and to deliver what is expected of me super duper quickly, or that I had failed. And and a fantastic casting director and a dear friend of mine basically called me one day and said, Hey, I, you know, I need something from you, X, Y, or Z. Um, and I said, I'm walking into a Broadway theater. Is this something that I can handle in a couple of hours? Or is like, do I have to walk out of the Broadway theater? And he literally said to me, and I quote, we are not saving lives. This is not brain surgery. There is absolutely no reason why you can't get this to me tonight or even tomorrow morning. And that was really impactful for me. Because, you know, I was, I was young, I was like in my 20s. I was building an agency and and I was um, you know, and and so many lives, people's lives, your livelihoods, so many other livelihoods depended on me getting, you know, my stuff done, getting everything out there into the world. And it was, it was a kindness that I did not expect to receive, and also a moment, you know, of sort of reflection and clarity and uh taking it with me. I really have.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And good on you for learning to raise your voice because that's like a confidence-building moment too. And we all have these instances at the crossroad where it's like you can make one decision and go one way or go make another decision and go the other way. And I think the communication is just super important. And you've always communicated so kindly with me and your fellow clients. And I just feel so grateful to have you in my corner because you're truly a dream maker. And even the advice you just openly shared here with everyone today is gonna help so many. So while you may not be saving lives, you are inspiring people and empowering them just by being your beautiful self. So thank you, Natasha.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Robert. And being being with you all these years has been such an incredible pleasure, too. And I'm really grateful for all of it, for the experience, for everything we've done so far, and and for being on this cool podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thanks for being here. And there's gonna be more cool things to come. Thank you all for tuning in.
