Tony Goldwyn (One Battle After Another) on ‘Embracing Discomfort’ - Plus, Big News!

How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks is thrilled to announce that we're returning with brand new episodes, to inspire and empower creatives everywhere. In the meantime, please enjoy this re-release featuring acting advice from Scandal star Tony Goldwyn.

Tony Goldwyn (One Battle After Another, Hacks, Ghost, Scandal, and Oppenheimer) joins How We Role to share his journey from struggling with anxiety to finding authentic presence in his work. The actor, producer and director offers multi-perspectives on an actor's journey, giving insights into the benefits of embracing uncertainty and how digging deeper can set you free.

Goldwyn is an actor, director and producer. His latest feature directing project, Ezra, with Bobby Cannavale and Robert DeNiro, was released by Bleecker Street Films. Goldwyn made his feature directorial debut with A Walk on the Moon. The film premiered at Sundance and received a National Board of Review Award for Excellence in Independent Filmmaking. Other feature directing credits: Conviction, starring Hilary Swank and Sam Rockwell which was awarded the Freedom of Expression honor from the National Board of Review; The Last Kiss and Someone Like You.  His many acting credits include Oscar-winning Oppenheimer, ABC's Scandal and the cult-classic Ghost.

Goldwyn’s New York theater credits include Tony and Olivier Award-winner The Inheritance, directed by Stephen Daldry; Ivo van Hove’s Network with Bryan Cranston; the Broadway revival of Promises, Promises; Holiday at Circle in the Square; The Water’s Edge and Spike Heels at Second Stage Theater; The Dying Gaul at the Vineyard Theater; The Sum of Us at the Cherry Lane Theatre, for which he won an Obie Award and Digby at Manhattan Theatre Club.

This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.

Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Hello actors. It's your friend Robert Peter Paul here with an exciting announcement. How We Roll, a podcast for actors, is returning with new episodes. Yes, we're back for a second season featuring a fresh crop of topics and glittering guests to match. From acclaimed casting directors and actors to behind-the-scenes talent, we're going to answer even bigger hows about the entertainment industry, all with the goal of providing tangible advice for you to thrive in all your creative endeavors. Times 2! How we roll season 2 is coming to your ears this spring. In the meantime, I recommend going back and listening to season 1, where we laid the groundwork for breaking into the business with a range of phenomenal folks. Speaking of, with Oscar season upon us, here's a previous conversation that I pulled from our library featuring the terrific Tony Goldwyn of One Battle After Another. Have you seen it yet? Donning both his actor and director hats, Tony dropped a heap of wisdom on the pod, and I think it's definitely worth a relisten. I know I have my notebook out, so let's roll that episode now. Stay tuned for season two, friends.

Tony Goldwyn Joins The Mic

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Hi, I'm Tony Goldwyn, and I am 6'1 inch, and you're listening to How We Roll.

Early Lessons From Theater

SPEAKER_00 1:53

When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to How We Roll, a podcast for actors by casting networks. Hi friend, thank you for tuning in. This conversation is one where I really sit back and listen. I hope you find it as inspiring as I did. Dare I say it was quite scandalous. Today's guest is Tony Goldwyn. Tony Goldwyn is an actor, director, and producer who cut his teeth in the theater. His acting credits include cult classics like Ghost, I'm Making Pottery right now, Oscar-winning pictures like Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer, and of course the binge-worthy ABC series Scandal. He is currently starring on a mainstay show that is a bucket list gig for most of us actors. Law and Order. Bum bum. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Although he may be known for lighting up the screen, Goldwyn's first love appears to be theater, with projects like the Tony and Olivier winner, The Inheritance, Network with Brian Cranston, The Broadway Revival of Promises Promises, and many more. Goldwyn eventually pivoted into directing, debuting with A Walk on the Moon starring Diane Lane. The film premiered at Sundance and received a National Board of Review Award for Excellence in Independent Filmmaking. Other featured directing credits are Conviction starring Hillary Swank and Sam Rockwell, The Last Kiss with Zach Braff and Rachel Bilson, and Someone Like You with Ashley Judd and Hugh Jackman. The latest project Tony sat at the helm of was Ezra, where he directed Bobby Canavale and the one and only Robert De Niro. Tony and I dive deep into a conversation about embracing your fears and staying present as an actor. Two very tough things to do. He also touches on his iconic career, which I forgot to mention includes hacks, love that TV show, and being the voice of Tarzan. Tony also kindly answers some listener questions. Yes, that's right. You can submit yours via our social media channels or the link here in the show notes. This is how we roll with actor Tony Goldwyn. Right off the bat here, I truly admire not only this gigantic career you've carved out for yourself, but the way you just seem to lead with kindness in this industry. I really appreciate that. And, you know, I interviewed you on the red carpet once and at the Thanksgiving play on Broadway, and you're so kind to everybody. And yeah, it was a little Muppet in the corner and you stopped to talk to fans. And so I just want to thank you for that because I think that's really important in this industry.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Oh, good. Well, I I agree. I do too. But thank you for mentioning that.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Of course. So generally, we have a topic on here that we try and break down for actors. But again, since you're kind of this treasure trove of knowledge, we're going to try and cover a lot of ground here today, from acting to directing, and we're going to have fun. All with the intention, of course, of getting sort of like tangible tidbits for our acting friends. Great. So get ready. I think we'll call them Goldwyn Nuggets of Wisdom. Golden Nuggets of Wisdom. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

That's intimidating to me, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

You're going to be great. Going down, I guess, back for a bit down the road, just to start, you you have this legendary family in Hollywood that I loved learning more about. Of course, I I knew the name, but you decided to start in the theater. So I'm just wondering, what was the first valuable lesson you feel like you learned as an actor from those early days?

Anxiety, Presence, And Not Knowing

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Well, professionally, the first important lesson I would say I learned that it took me many years to understand what the lesson was. I got my first job at the Williamstown Theater Festival, which as people may or may know was a, you know, is a summer theater festival in the Berkshires, Massachusetts. And for many years, and particularly when I started out, was like the sort of the place to be, if you wanted to, you know, as an older actor who sort of mentored me when, you know, when I was really decided I wanted to pursue this, he's he I was in college and he was giving me, he said, well, if you want to, if you want to be an actor, the first place you go is go to Williamstown. So I tried to audition and I managed to get in. And, you know, I was an in the non-equity company at Williamstown. And my my first, I it was my first summer there because it's where I ended up getting my equity card. My first summer there, I was, I think I was helping with rehearsal in a play that I was not in. I remember Franklin Gello was starring in this play. I wow literally can't even remember which what play. But one of the other actors hadn't shown up yet for rehearsal, so I was standing in, learning their blocking and stuff, as which is something that as non-equity people were supposed to do. And um I was reading the lines and doing it, and this wonderful actor who just it was a dear friend who recently died named George Morfogan was also in the cast. I think it might have been Sherlock Holmes or something they were doing. And George took me outside and he said, Tony, I want you to know something. He said, You're you're actually quite gifted. He said, But you're you're making a terrible mistake. And I said, What? I was literally just reading, trying to help out, but I was obviously trying to act. And he said, You've you're leaving yourself out of the room. And I said, Oh, okay. He said, No, you need to think about this. When you work, you leave yourself out of the room. And honestly, to be honest with you, I had no idea what he was talking about. I just knew I was doing something very wrong. But I've realized it was such an important uh lesson he was trying to teach me about learning to bring yourself into the work and not think, oh, I'm supposed to be something other than myself now. I'm playing a character, I'm doing this now, and now I need to, you know, what what's going on with me is not really relevant. I need to now do something else on top of me.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

It's a hard lesson to learn, you know. And some actors, I suppose just have it naturally were able to do that. But it took me a minute to to start, and it's been an evolution. You know, I'm still reminding myself of that lesson, but I felt like that was key lesson number one working in the professional theater.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah. I think that's cool. The the key to life, I think. Well, what do I know? But is trying to stay curious and learning. And if you're not learning, you know, you might be six feet underground. I don't know. But you're very open about something that I think as we talk about bringing ourselves to the role, makes it a little bit tricky, which is that anxiety you felt early on, you know, the pressure that you felt on yourself. You've talked about, and that's very relatable, honestly. How do you feel like you stopped that from stopping you?

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Well, part of it, these are complicated questions, uh, because it's an evolution. I got a lot of them. It never stops, but yeah, I mean, I remember that horrible thing that people say to you when you're young is like, just be yourself. I remember literally thinking, who the fuck am I? I don't know who I am. What does that mean? Be myself. I don't know what that means. So it was uh God. It was very stressful. I I hated that phrase. I in a way I preferred George's. It was a bit more esoteric, I suppose, but uh, you know, you're leaving yourself out. At least it I didn't know what that meant, but I it made more sense to me when I came to understand that. Because we're particularly, I think, through our at least me, I can only speak to myself, particularly through my 20s, you know. Uh I was trying, I was discovering kind of um what that meant, like who I was, who I uh I literally, it's very difficult to put into words because it's a feeling that you have where you're like, oh, I can be present. You know, other teachers would say they remind us that we're enough. Like just be it, I mean, it's it's a lifelong thing. I'm sorry I'm repeating myself, but it's a very tricky, elusive thing that some people have as small children, they just never let go of it and they're like gifted in some way. But for a lot of us it it's a very elusive thing to understand, oh, I can just be present and uh God.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, no, I I think it's always interesting, especially if you watch back yourself tapes, which is a unique torture, and I'm glad you probably don't have to deal with that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

I have those when I started out, so yeah, it's wild.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

You're like the director, the lightning designer, all this stuff, and you watch them back, and sometimes it's almost more interesting to watch yourself as you're like about to start the scene. And it it feels like some of us struggle with maybe like putting something on the second we go versus just coming from that natural place of of being. And I think that's what you're touching on. And what I've appreciated you saying too is now as a director, it's what you look for, I think, in actors. You look for their perspective versus them trying to give you what you want, like or what they think you want.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Absolutely. I mean, the the key to it, if it's of any use to anyone, to me, is like when I work now, I still have that same feeling when I start to work on something that I don't know what the hell I'm doing, and what is this, and I don't know what this is, and it feels stiff and forced, and I don't know what to do with it. And how do I find myself in this? You know, you still have all of those feelings and the thing of like, I'm not really right for this, someone else should play this part. And I and I've come to make peace with that as just the beginning of the process. So perhaps when I was younger, because of that anxiety, maybe I've never articulated this before, but because of that anxiety that we all feel when handed a you know, uh a role that we this unfamiliar, perhaps when I was younger, I leapt immediately to thinking I needed, I had an answer. Like another word tell them, like, oh, I don't know what this is, so I have an idea in my head of what it's supposed to be, so I'm gonna do that.

unknown 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

I'm gonna try and perform this thing because I think I kind of know what this is, I have an idea of what this is. So then I perform it. But I haven't really uh done any of the work to ask the questions of what is this and be okay with not knowing what this is. So I went immediately from step A to step Z. And so step Z was a manufactured cerebral intellectual thing, and I robbed myself of allowing myself into the piece. So the answer is to be okay with not knowing, first of all. And to just ask the question like, what is this? I don't know, I don't know what this is. So, like, what let's start with what am I saying? Do I understand what I'm saying? Do I understand who I'm talking to? Like, who is this person? Like, what, where am I, where, what's this place? And so to start asking those questions of the given circumstances, but don't insist on an answer. That that's huge. Like, don't require an answer, just be okay, like not knowing. And that's how you begin to be present as an actor, is being like, hmm, I don't know what the hell this is. Yeah. So, you know, and as you get a bit more experience as you work, you start to be maybe a little quicker and being okay. Those questions are like, well, maybe it's this, or maybe it's that, or maybe I'm this, but maybe, you know, but mainly to be okay not knowing. And then even whether you're working on stage or, you know, in front of the camera, particularly when you work in front of the camera, you generally don't have much rehearsal. So you have to do all that work by yourself before you even start. And then when the camera's rolling, you need to forget everything you decided and be very present and be like, well, I know I made all those decisions, and I was gonna thought maybe I'd do it this way, but I don't know. Let's kind of see what happens. That's but we're getting into other tests.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

That's really cool. No, I think it's Did I address what you said at all? You did. I think you might not realize it, but I really do think that's gonna be so helpful to people because these things are hard to articulate, but we're trying to do that on this little podcast because I feel like they're important to talk about. You know, it's it's living in that discomfort. I mean, first of all, being on stage, there's a lot of that. You don't know if someone's about to cough in the audience. You don't know if you're doing the show network and you're outside, someone's gonna scream something at you in the middle of your scene that you had done there, which is actually being sort of replicated in a way on Sunset Boulevard right now on Broadway. They have something similar. So I think all this is super helpful. I wonder is, you know, looking back to one of your first jobs, I think was with Denzel Washington. And a lot of our listeners are trying to break into that co-star circuit, maybe on law and order, get that badge. You know, fully kind of realizing now that you are a top-notch creative that actors could be nervous to work with themselves. Do you have any advice on sort of not getting in your own head when you're working with people that you admire?

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Yeah, it happens to me all the time. I mean, again, it's that same thing with being comfortable, being uncomfortable. It's fine. I mean, I look, I the last movie I directed, it was, you know, Robert De Niro was in it. And when I first was working with Robert De Niro, I was like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah. Ezra on Paramount Plus, I believe.

Working With Idols And Fear Brain

SPEAKER_02 16:57

I don't know, it's on Amazon. It's called Ezra. You can get it now. But um, it was in the theaters in on Memorial Day. But yeah, you know, it still happens to me every time. So, and you know, I work with my idols, or you work with some very famous person, and you're like, it it happens every job I do. So it's like being the new kid in school, kind of it is the same sort of feeling. And you just have to have a sense of humor about it and be like, okay, my fear brain is clicking in and freaking me out, and you learn to just stop listening to that. It's like, okay, that's happening. Here's what it is. There's like our fear brain, whatever that is, our amygdala or whatever it is, creates a scenario, tells us a story that we should be afraid that someone's gonna judge us, that we're not gonna be do a good enough job, that all things are gonna go wrong, it's gonna be a disaster, whatever that is that we have. And you learn that that's not the brain you should be listening to. There's another voice that is a calmer voice that is your real self that has totally got this and does not even need to worry about anything. It's like social anxiety, it's all the same thing. And so what I've learned to do is when that happens, I just go, oh yeah, okay, that's happening. I know that's bullshit. I know that's not help. It's just noise, it's like noise. So I'm like, okay, the noise is there, stop with the noise. How about I know that if I just let the noise happen, I'll be just fine. And why don't I just focus on the task at hand, which is um, if I'm working with Denzel or whoever, whoever it is, with De Niro, it's like there's a job to do here. Bob needs my help here, and I have a job to do, so let me just do my job, and I'll just hopefully that noise will go away. And it always does. It always does. It's like when you go to a party and you're dreading going there, you're like, I don't know anybody, people are gonna want me there. What am I gonna do? You walk in and then you engage in a conversation. You're like, what was I worried about? It was fine. Like, that was a nice person I was talking to. You know, you always those anxieties are ever present, and you just have to learn to not listen to them. There's a different voice, and then that other voice becomes dominant, and um, that's your true self. And so uh that's a um a constant problem that never goes away for an actor. Every time I go on stage, practically, my knees buckle, and I have these moments sometimes before I make an entrance where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna walk out there, my legs are not gonna support me, I'm gonna fall down, I'm not gonna remember anything I'm supposed to do, I'm not gonna be able to breathe, and I have a panic attack. And so now I go, yeah, right, whatever. Just breathe and shut up.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Power through. No, that's relatable. Okay, just let it go.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Like, let it be there. Don't be like, oh my God, that's you just know that voice is is not uh valid. It's it's it's um it's not real. It is that's what it said. Those voices are it's not real, it's a self-created thing that is just a part of our evolution that it's not real. What's real is what's happening right now in front of you.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah. Not it's all fear-based. But I think that that's the fear-based end. So it's like choosing the love for what you do, maybe over the fear of not doing it correctly, which what even is correct?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Yeah, and yeah, don't even get in the freaking argument with it. Don't even engage. It's like if we're going for an audition, how many times have we been like, oh my god, what are they so that person in there's really good, and then I'm gonna suck, I don't know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Were you watching me yesterday?

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Yeah, no, I'm seriously like, well, yeah, you know, the trick is to not engage with it. It's like, yeah, whatever. Okay, my heart's beating really fast, or I'm sweating, or okay. So what I do is I breathe. I just try and do ant I just try and do the antidotes, and I'm like, all right, I'm just gonna let that be there. I'm not gonna fight it. Okay, wow, weird. I'm having this physical reaction. The cool thing is, oh wow, I'm having a physical reaction. That's happening. Oh, what is that? That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Like, get yeah, you're not giving it power, you're just acknowledging it. It's just happening. You're having like a fight or flight reflex. Like, even if you get interested in that, like wow, that's interesting. That's actually that is actually happening to me physically. Yeah. My brain spinning about what it means is is not real. That's not actually happening. That's a creation of moment that's taking me out of the present moment. But I had it yesterday, I was working and uh I was shooting, we're I was doing law and order, and you know, I just it happens all the time. But we started to roll and I started to have that kind of slight like whatever anxiety or something, and uh, and I just went, oh, what's actually happening right this second to me? My I'm feeling a little uh ajata or whatever it was. So I was like, oh that's real. So I didn't fight it and I allowed it to maybe that's interesting, maybe that's something to explore, maybe that's something that is useful in this scene. Like maybe that's a part of let's just let that be there and see if it's useful to me. And A, all of a sudden it diminished because I welcomed it. And B, there was an aspect of that that helped me raise the stakes for the scene that I was doing, and it was quite useful and it was fresh because it was a little different than what I hadn't thought about. That do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

So yeah, totally. You're not blowing up that balloon either.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

We've spent so much time going, Oh my god, I'm nervous. Oh shit. Of course you are.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah, but let it be maybe excitement. And I also think we're wrong ourselves about so many things in a day mentally, all these thoughts. So, why would we be right about these negative things about ourselves? Sometimes that helps me too, course correct, is like I know I'm wrong about so much, so why am I listening to this? You don't even listen to you.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

It sort of gets back to that thing, it's related to the thing of uh when you look at a scene and you go, I know what this wants to be, I know how to do this. As soon as I think that, I'm like, wait a minute, hold on. Whoa, I don't know. Maybe there's a possibility it might go in that direction, but um, I don't know. So getting back to The actually approaching material, one thing that I find useful, again, we're jumping around, but it's not unrelated to this, is when I look at a new piece of material, young actors particularly go right to how they think it should be done. I know how this is done, and I'm gonna do that. And then they skip over all the discovery sort of general because it's it's sort of performed. Because I know how to do this, I'm mad or whatever it is. You know, we just have an instinct. It doesn't mean instincts are wrong or invalid. They may be great. But if you more I now go, I have a feeling like maybe that's the direction it goes. But before I go even to that, what am I saying? Do I understand the words that I'm saying? Do I understand what I'm actually telling you? Just on a literal level, do I understand what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

That's important.

Scandal Craft: Speed, Text, Precision

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Often I'm I'm like, I don't actually know. I don't know what that word means, or I don't know what that is referring to exactly. That what am I talking? What's he talking? Why is he talking about that? What is that place that he's referring to? What is that thing that I'm referring to? I don't actually know that, so I better think about that. So I just go with like, what am I saying?

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

And what is that person saying to me? Do I understand that? And when I get to that level, that's a lot, man. That's that's something useful. Then I can immediately start. If I'm interacting with you, reading with you, I can just communicate what I'm saying. I don't need to perform anything. I can at least just start with that, and that's active automatically. And then what is gonna happen in our interaction? I'm gonna have a whole experience of reading the scene with you just based on understanding what I'm saying to you and what you're saying to me. Literally, what does it mean? Yeah, and then I'll get another layer of like, oh well, I felt like we were in this kind of a place where maybe this is what our relationship is, or I've been like, huh. And instead of we as actors, we go to like the emotion immediately. How do I feel about this? How do I feel? Like, I don't know. There may be 100 possibilities of how you feel. And you can try it differently, you know, but just not getting to the result. I mean, you hear that all the time, you know, don't play the result, don't get so fixated on how and the result. That's how you do that. So just slow down. Start with saying I find that very useful, and it helps me be present in what I'm doing in the early stages.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Yeah, that's so interesting. I I've talked to some television actors that will say, I mean, some of them honestly, it seems write out emotions to track all the scenes they're doing that day or the scenes for one episode. Is there anything you do like that? Do you have like a cheat sheet of what am I doing, what am I doing? Or is it like on set you just kind of have that same process you just described?

SPEAKER_02 27:03

No, I don't. Um part of it is, you know, I'm pretty experienced now. Yeah. So a lot of the um homework that I used to do writing it down and making notes about stuff, intuitively I ask all those questions without writing them down because I kind of know what questions I want to ask in my preparation. For me, the trap of writing a lot of things down and creating a score for myself, this is just me. It can freeze things and can um set things that I want to that I want to remain fluid. It it suddenly something that is in the flow becomes fixed in a way that's not helpful to me. So if I say, I mean, I would never do it with emotion, for me, that would be a disaster. Because again, for me and other every actor works differently. So you gotta find your own way. But for me to set an emotion means I'm then playing the resultant and playing an emotion, which is for me never good. More like, what am I, what am I doing? Like what am I, what am I after? What am I, what am I, yeah, what for me it's like what am I saying? Like, what is this mean? And then what am I trying to achieve? What am I trying to get from? What am I doing in an active way? Um, and I don't even, you know, I I struggle a lot with like action analysis, writing down, I've tried everything. But of like writing, oh, this is what I'm doing. I know what my action is here. And people, some people love doing that stuff. For me, it always got me stuck. So, you know, I spend a lot of time preparing, I'm working alone. And it's I just keep it fluid. I just go over it over and over and over and over it. And I, you know, I now have this app that I use that runs lines with me.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Oh, rehearsal pro or yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

It's uh what is it called? Cold read. It's called cold read.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Oh, yeah.

Social Media: Utility And Hazards

SPEAKER_02 28:58

But just doing it and not even thinking about it, just going every time I do it, it'll raise a question like, oh, I don't really understand what this is about. I don't really understand what my relationship with this person is. Or I wonder if I like it'll get me thinking about like, what happened? You know, where am I coming from? What what how important is this to me? You know, those questions we ask, or it feels a little vague, a little general. Like it feels a little, the stakes feel very low to me. So what why is this important to me? What what happened before? You know, the kind of all those given circumstances. So in just reviewing it, I end up asking myself over and over and over and over again these questions, but I don't necessarily have an answer. It's like um, I always look at it like it's like peeling an onion, and you never get to the end. Ever. There's never an answer. Never. There's a yeah, oh, there's another layer to peel away. Oh, that, yeah, that made sense to me. Huh. Where's that gonna lead me to the next question? And what I find then when I am working in rehearsal or with an when I'm on set, I then can forget everything and have no opinion about anything. But if I've done enough work on my own, on an unconscious level, I have gained an understanding. Does that make any sense as opposed to going, I've got my yeah, I know what I'm doing, and I've got my notes, and I'm in a it's that's to me, for me personally, I'm still stuck in a cerebral stage. And I need personally to be in a stage where I can forget everything and um hopefully be prepared enough to just be like, I don't know. Yeah, but if I've done enough work, I'm like ready. And sometimes I have to look at my lines and go, do I, you know, I drill my fucking lines over and so that I Well, I'm glad you mentioned the app because we all need a we all have different hacks for doing that. Personally, I need to know my lines so well that I just don't even think about them. I need to know the words so well that I can't, I don't, I could, they just come out, you know. And I still have to like what and I look at it, you know, or if there's a reason I can't remember something, it's because I don't understand it enough. Like, why do I constantly keep forgetting that line? Or why do I keep getting that wrong? Because I don't understand it. Um, and so then I have to go ask myself a lot of questions, like, well, why don't I understand it? What doesn't make sense to me? I thought I understand it, but I guess I don't. Anyway, so that's from me. I need to come to work so prepared that I can forget everything and not have any opinion about what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

I appreciate you sharing all that. We had a lot of listeners and casting networks members write in that were excited to ask you questions. And a lot of them had to do with your method or your process. But what I think that we can kind of step into from here was from an amazing listener named Jade Rushing. Hello, Jade. Thanks for being here. And Jade wants to know what you find to be, or I guess found, because obviously you're a vet at this, to be the most challenging aspect of acting, of your process. Like, what do you find to be the most challenging? Sorry, it's a that's a hard question to answer.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

What do I find to be the most challenging? Well, yeah, the most challenging thing is to be absolutely present with what's happening in any given moment. That's what we are striving for, the transcendent experience of being totally present. Um, and that requires a lot. For me, I can't speak for anybody else. For me, that requires a tremendous amount of preparation so that I can forget everything and be present. And I rarely achieve it, I can admit. You know, those moments where I feel completely in flow and dialed in, and anything can happen, and I'm just with you and not ahead of myself or behind myself. Is um the those are rare fleeting moments, you know. That's what I'm always striving to achieve 100% of the time. And um, I guess I get I'm I'm close to it a lot, you know what I mean? Uh, and I have to give myself a lot of a break to go, well, no, you know, you have to be willing to, you have to very much accept that it's a rarefied experience. You know, every artist is trying to find that transcendence. Um, and we, most artists, even the greatest artists, if you ask them, they'll go, Oh, I never get there. I'm always failing, always. But we watch them, and the greats, you're like, oh my God. So my job is to hopefully have you have that experience of me. But in doing that, I'm just trying to get as close as I can to being present and free. And that is the most challenging thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yeah, it's like that's why all the gamblers are still at the slot machines. It's just for that one big win, you know, the one high you can experience. And you've had so many highs in your career that I didn't even realize. I had no idea you were the voice of Tarzan, first of all, which is kind of legendary. And I keep seeing that meme of Tarzan. I don't know if you've seen this. With have you seen it going around where he's holding Jane and also mid-air, and everyone's like, how is he holding the vine? There's like this one shot of Tarzan. I encourage you to look it up after this that everybody's sharing these days. But it's no shock to me that a lot of listeners wanted to know about Scandal. And I think to stop there for one second, it matches what you were just saying with that preparation, because I imagine being on a Shonda Rhimes show comes with its own sort of like acting techniques and things that you learn, especially with those big iconic monologues she has and her cadence. Is there anything you can share from that experience as far as what you feel like it really helped you achieve as an actor?

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah, that was a very interesting technical. Um, that helped me a lot working on Scandal because um uh Shonda required us to be word perfect. Um, her sort of policy with us is, you know, I'm totally open for notes or ideas or comments or thoughts ahead of time, but she does not like any changes on set. And a lot of times when you work on a film or you work on certain types of material, certain screenwriters are very open to improvisation. And, you know, others are very meticulous, more like working in the theater. And Shonda's one of those writers. So uh, and on Scandal, she was particularly obsessed with us speaking extremely quickly. She for the first season, she was constantly emailing us, you have to talk faster, you have to talk faster. The only time this show will ever slow down is when Fitz and Olivia are alone together. Those are the only pauses we allow in this show. And then she had like a minute. But this we had this famous kind of thing of like one minute where we were silent, you know. So we had to earn those things. And so technically, that required um, you know, you had to be really super prepared and uh do what I said before. You know, I just learned it so that I didn't even have to think about it. You know, that didn't mean we didn't get on set and stumble and screw up all the time. And that's the benefit of working on the cameras. You can there's take two and three. But um, you know, we really tried to to be, you know, you had to be very quick. It's like working in a stylized comedy in the theater, you know, where you have to be, you know, the the rhythm is everything.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

You know, it's interesting too, in in doing some research. I remembered, I guess, because I knew it at the time, that scandal really rose to prominence because of social media, because of Twitter, I think it was Carrie's idea. You've spoken about that often to kind of get on Twitter. I know you yourself, maybe we throw this out into the garbage, this question, but I know you're not as big on social media. You don't seem to be as active. Can you I mean, can you speak to it at all? Because I feel like on this side, a lot of working actors now are being encouraged to have a presence, to create their own content. And I think you could maybe still weigh in since you are a content creator as a director and a filmmaker.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah, well, social media, look, it's also a generational thing. I mean, you know, I we did it on Scandal because Carrie had this brilliant idea, and it was when Twitter was just kind of beginning and we became this phenomenon. And so then we built up this massive following. We would live tweet our broadcast twice, you know, East Coast and West Coast every Thursday night for seven years. Uh, and we all were very committed to it. And we built up these big social media followings and we really interacted with our fans a lot, and then Instagram was invented, so we got on Instagram and Facebook, and all and you know, it was exhausting, honestly. Like I it was great, it was really fun. Um, but for me, uh, when scandal was over, I was pretty burned out on it, and it it uh, you know, I kept it up for a while. Um but it a I'm a fairly private person, so this constant and you have to feed the beast if you're on social media. You really do. And there's a sort of false sense of relationship that people have with you, and you have with your followers. Um, that I started feeling it was just exhaust a bit exhausting. And um, and so that was part one. So I kind of said, like, I need to take a break. I still stayed on Instagram. I got off Twitter because I also, Twitter to me became a very toxic environment. Um and um I just got turned off by it. So I just stayed on Instagram, and Instagram, I think it's fun. And um so I still on Instagram and I still post now and then and I share professionally what I'm doing, and I definitely try and share, you know, stay in terms of like charitable causes that I'm supporting and stuff. There's another aspect on a personal level about social media. It's very performative, and that just rubs me. I I find that's very uh dangerous for me. It's a little toxic, it's too strong a word. It is um it's hazardous for me. You know, the the performative nature, it's a very curated thing, and we're putting out something. Everything is presented in a way that feels slightly uh, to me, fraudulent. And it takes a certain amount of work to go, okay. No, I'm being authentic, but I'm also being performative because I'm certainly presenting something that's curated to my audience. But it's just like it's I don't know, it's nice hazardous to people. Like be careful because it is very performative. In terms of the profession and people saying you need to be on social media, I think to some degree that may be true. So go for it. And I have to admit to younger people, it's very much a part of how younger people communicate and connect with each other and love it. But shit's dangerous, man. I'm telling you, it is um yeah, it is a very hazardous environment. And it is tremendously anxiety provoking, I find. I know for me, but I know for a lot of people, and um it's dangerous. You know, that performative thing, it's like, hi, this is me. Yeah, beautiful and perfect, and I'm not this and around that. And oh, yeah, you fall down that rabbit hole. I now gotta do that, and yeah, it's it's it's kind of bullshit too.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Because you start to compare yourself. You're like, I'm sitting at home and this person's at some gala, but meanwhile, they were there, you know, a month ago for a day, and it's just you I understand what you're saying. It's a tricky dance.

Law & Order And Valuing Day Players

SPEAKER_02 40:12

No one cares, honestly. No one cares. I mean, I guess uh to some degree, if you have a ton of followers and you're an influencer and you're beautiful, and that's all great. It's part of your job, but it's not the job. Your work is all that matters like when I'm casting something, I don't care. You know, if someone's got a cool following on social media and I look at their stuff and I'm like, oh, cool. I get here's what I dig. If I'm on social, if I go on social media to check you out, if I'm the casting you, which I probably never do, but if I do and I get a sense of who you are, really, I'm like, look at Robert. Oh, I get a vibe of who you really are, and I sense that. I'm like, oh, that's cool. It's like I spent some time with you and I get a sense of who you are. If you're already a big celebrity, if you're already famous and you have a big following and you have a lot of publicity and you're doing a lot of stuff, that is a different story. Your fans want to see you out there and they dig it, and they want to be around the fantasy version of Carrie Washington that Carrie puts out. She's got that's a part of her business, and she's a genius at it, and she works really hard at it. That is a different thing than an aspiring actor feeling they need to be on red carpets because someone's gonna think they're more than they are or something. I just yeah, all that matters is like create if you want to have a social media presence, have it be authentically you. Yeah, and then do your work because that's all anybody actually cares about. When you come in a room or I see your stuff, I'm like, yeah, you got some game. I'm interested in working with you.

unknown 41:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Does it make any sense?

SPEAKER_00 41:56

No, that's a good reminder. It should all be authentic to you, I think. Yeah, other than maybe Dolly Parton. That's all I want to see in my newsfeed. It's it should just come from you. I mean, it should be what you want out of it, too. It's a personal thing, like we're saying. But that is something that we get told about a lot as actors now is like push out your own content, have that going. And I think especially for the people in this sort of like co-star circuit, it's true. And it's interesting to me because now you're on this iconic series, Law and Order. I don't need to tell you that. And, you know, you're killing it. For actors that show is such a rite of passage, as I think I mentioned earlier. I'm just wondering now that you're high on the call sheet, when you have this revolving door of working actors coming in and you have someone playing a dead body, you have somebody coming in there to say, Will you sign for this for one line, which 200 of us maybe are going in for, that just must be such a full circle special thing to see. Can you speak to that at all? Like, what's that like for you to kind of see these people coming in on this show that has such a reputation? I think they just spoofed it at the SAG Awards this year. They had a whole kind of thing about Law and Order. Yeah. Having these people come in as co-stars and these people that you know are just there for one line, these working actors. I mean, what does it mean for you to see that?

Gene Smart, Hacks, And Longevity

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Well, here's what I'll say, which is a bigger point I think it's worth making. First of all, the you know, the one of the best things about being a Law and Order is the actors that come in to guest star and co-star and do all this, you know, the day players are great. Like people are really, really excellent. And what I often feel when I see someone either doing a big role who's very young or doing just a small part is that they're super important. And um I really am so admiring of someone who comes in and um values their their con I value the contribution of a person who has one line as much as I do the person who's the main guest star of that episode or one of our regulars. Like it's all what makes something good is that every layer is real and good and excellent. And the truth is it's exciting for me because that person who may be young, who's coming in and doing their first line on television ever, in a year or two might be the lead in the show. I maybe you know, they might have a big career ahead of them. And, you know, I do I can see it. I go, whoa, you're good. You know, you you're so I remember feeling when I started out when I was doing those small things, feeling unimportant and feeling undervalued and being on less good television shows where you'd show up and they'd treat you like a piece of furniture and sort of movie here and and act like you weren't important because you didn't have as big a uh you know a role. And it infuriates me now because um I see how important it actually is. And you know, when you when you acknowledge someone's value, then they like they do great work. Like all you have to do is be like, I'm happy you're here. Like, what do you think? What do you want to do? How what do you think about this? Like, yeah, you know, acknowledge the artistry because it's really hard to come in and do one word, one line. It's very hard. It's a real that's a real challenge. Being a dead body is not so hard, but you know, yeah, but but it's an a lot of things are are very hard, and it's I just can't believe the way I was treated early on. And like, how did you even expect me to do a good job that I had to deal with people's being dismissed and being like treated like I was not important or that someone else was so much more important than me, and I was just like to shut up and go over there.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

I mean, yeah, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

How does an actor do? I see, you know, and so I'm very cognizant now. And we were, you know, on scandal, even in background, like when background are good, it's fantastic. Yeah. It's so good when the background are engaged and participating and present and and doing their job well. It's so important.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

You know, because when they're not, it steals the scene. I noticed that on shows when some Someone's sort of like.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Well, no, and when background are not good, it's an it's a problem. You know, so yeah. It's a real skill and and a and a really valued thing. And a lot of, again, a lot of really good actors started out doing background work because they were trying to find a way in. And so, you know, I remember when we did Scandal, Carrie Washington was always, every time we had a big scene with lots of backgrounds, she would always stop and applaud the background and congratulate on how fantastic they were. And um, you know, we all tried to always try to do that because people, hey, people need it and deserve it, but um, it all matters. So that's what I like to say to anybody who's like, you know, yeah, showing up for a small piece of you know, of a show.

Directing Insights And Casting Truths

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yeah, I appreciate that. I think in you learn that in the theater as well. You literally do need every single person to tell the story. And I guess while we're on the TV guest star circuit, you know, I love seeing you on hacks, and I know you're on the new season. So just to touch on that for a second, on behalf of all the other actorslash fans out there, what's it like having a partner in scene, uh, Gene Smart, a scene partner? Gene scene. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

You know, I'd worked with Gene very early in my career. One of my first jobs was guest starring on uh her show, um uh um designing women. And we did this really amazing episode in the 80s uh about AIDS. And uh it was the very first time AIDS was mentioned on primetime television. Wow. And uh the show runner, the creator Linda Bloodworth Thomason's mother had died of AIDS that year from a blood transfusion. And at that time, President Reagan had not even said the word AIDS. So she was like, I'm gonna write an episode about this. And so I played this friend of the designing women who was had AIDS and was asked them to design his funeral because his family had rejected him. It was pretty intense for a sitcom. And I played this great part, and I and Gene and I, you know, sort of bonded at that time. And I, you know, I've seen her over the years, sort of whatever, 30, whatever years later, almost 40 years later, you know, to do hacks together is was so fun. And and um, she's you know, Jean is really uh such a great actress, and and is I'm so happy for her having this moment um at this stage in her career where she's being you know fully recognized for the brilliant uh artist that she is. Um, and and the writing on that show is so great. It was just it's just a blast. Everyone's so wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Well, I'm glad you're being recognized too, and that you're at the stage you are, because again, we need good role models in this industry. And to pivot for a second, you know, you're also a role model for directors because you were able to kind of take this different path. You talk a lot about reinventing yourself as an artist and sort of the importance of that, which I appreciate. Once you started directing from an actor perspective, what do you wish you had known earlier? Like once you were in that director seat and watching all the other actors, is there something you wish you had known when you were on the other side? And now you're still on the other side, but you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Um It's uh it's just again, that's another huge question.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

I love your thoughtfulness, honestly. Yeah, these are these are pretty big questions.

Rapid-Fire Craft: From Warmups To Stamina

SPEAKER_02 49:19

What do I wish I had known? I guess um I'm gonna say it more from an auditioning point of view rather than just an acting point of view. When I started to audition actors, it was revelatory to me. Hey, I was super uncomfortable with it at first. I was so apologetic because I know how hard auditioning is. And you know, I would I would be like, where would you like to sit? Are you okay? I was just so stressed out by it. And one actor finally was like, just tell me where to sit. I don't need to you decide. Um but what I really realized that I wish I had known, there's so many great actors, man. So many wonderful people. There's so many great artists out there. And there's only one person for every role. And so many people who come in do such great work. And it doesn't mean just the fact that you do a great job doesn't mean you're gonna get the part. And also, there are lots of amazing actors who come in and have shitty auditions. You know, come in and they're just like off their game and they're going, I'm like, wow, I like that person's work, but they had a they were having a bad day. Well, that's why I love being a reader, it's because you do get to sometimes read out the Titans and that took so much pressure off of me when I was like, I know there's a million good people are gonna be up for this, but here's my take on it. So after that, whenever, you know, I fortunately or unfortunately don't audition much these days, but you know, in the years after I come and walk on the moon, uh, when I would audition, and even now when I do audition, I'm like, I don't know what you, you know, I I know there's a million great people for this, but here's my here's what I I'm thinking, you know, as opposed to I've got to be the one person, I gotta be the best. You know, it's a weird alchemy. Casting is this strange alchemy that has to happen. Um and it so that was useful.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

That that was useful for us as well, listening. You know, casting is what we're all about here at Casting Networks. And so we play this little game called casting keywords, and it's kind of a flash round. And so basically, I'm gonna throw out a statement or a topic surrounding acting, like role preparation, auditioning, and you just please, if you're willing, say the first piece of advice that kind of pops into your head. Okay so it'll be like just a more of a word association advice garnering, mining your brilliant brain to get all these other actors in the place where they can do what they love. Okay, I'll try to. Are you down to play? Sure. Okay, okay. Insert a little music here. Maybe the Severance theme song. Do you do you watch Severance?

SPEAKER_02 51:47

I do, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Okay, here we go. So the first thing is script analysis.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Um, what am I saying?

SPEAKER_00 51:57

Oh, that's easy. I thought it meant to me. I'm like, I don't know. Acting warm-up.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Do I understand what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Perfect. Acting warmups.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Um, meditation. Auditions. Playgrounds.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

I love that. It's like Carol Burnett says in the sandbox. There you go. Screen tests. Um Yeah, rehearsal first day of rehearsal. Yeah, that seems so intimidating, I think, for a lot of actors. It's like you get to that point.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Treat it like a first day of rehearsal. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Do not treat it like your final audition. I love that. Acting methods. Um we never know what the hell we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Just keep ex asking questions, exploring every method. There's no there's no one way. I love that. I mean, I'm still always reading acting books. Always. Oh, do you have a favorite? Me too. No, I just read I get new favorites all the time. And I read books. And none of them are right, and all of them are right. It's like there's no I love that.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

I have one here to recommend if you haven't read it. The Warner Laughlin technique. Oh, I never read that. Okay. Warner Laughlin. She's amazing. I mean, I know she is. We just had her on here. She's great. But I recommend that. It's a great book.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

Oh, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Onset Etiquette.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Uh kindness, respect, and punctuality.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Hmm. Okay. K R P. I love that. Handling, okay, this is this is a silly one. Well, not silly. It's actually, we want to know. But handling spicy scenes. I feel like you've had to do a lot of those in your career. Scenes. Yeah. Or like just anything intimate. Yeah, intimate scenes.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Well, that's it's hard to have a short brief answer to that. But it's the components that are critically important is what story is being told in this intimate scene.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Um what um be be very uh uh sensitive and respectful of your scene partner because the most important thing is to develop to that there's trust between you and your scene partner.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

I you know, I guess now I've really not worked with them much, but now there's this intimacy coordinator, so I don't have a lot of experience in that. But whether with or without an intimacy coordinator, the question is always what story are we telling here with this? And then what am you know, to talk alone with your director, like what am I comfortable with, what am I not comfortable with, you know, so that everyone's telling the same story. And, you know, and just to make sure mainly that you develop a trust and communication with your scene partner, uh, and make sure that it's a very safe space because that's ultimately so that you can feel free, even sometimes it's very technical. But if it's, you know, um I I've done a lot of it and it's uh both as an actor and a director, and it's elegant, but it's also a beautiful opportunity. You know, intimacy is whether it's sex or not, we're in the business of intimacy. Whether it's physical intimacy or not, it's all the same thing. You know what I mean? So we want to have that vulnerability and openness in anything we're doing. So if we're taking off our clothes or doing it, it's just as more uh sensitive, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Yeah, you're so right. I mean, sometimes it's hard to just be vulnerable and say hi to somebody walking down the same path as you when you're outside with a stranger, you know? So it's very all these things.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

What are we trying to accomplish here? How are we doing it? What are we what are we doing? And you know, being sensitive to people's sensitivities.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

I love that. Boiling it down to the what is is a theme here, and I think that's super helpful. The last one I have is stamina.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Um well, you need a lot of it. It's really hard, you know, working on a on a film and television set is very hard.

Commit Fully And Play The Long Game

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Uh and for actors, uh in particularly in film, we need to be ready and to be present and fully in flow at a moment. We may be waiting for eight hours working, or it may be like three in the morning, and you've got to be there. So stamina is about taking care of yourself, learning how to pace yourself, learning how not to burn yourself out before it's time to, you know, to keep yourself in this zone, in your game zone, like an athlete. And it's the same thing doing eight shows a week is no joke, man. Oh, yeah. Working in the theater, particularly in a musical theater, is really hard. And in any, you know, so making sure that you're uh create a rhythm and a and a routine to eat well, get enough sleep, stay in shape, keep your voice healthy, all of it, so that when it's curtain time, you are ready to go and you are in your best self. Or when they say roll the camera, you are in your zone, whether it's through meditation, physical exercise, you know, prepare. What do you need to do?

unknown 56:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Be like nothing is more important than being able to go, I'm ready. So that when the coach says, okay, go in, you're ready to play. You know, the number of times I've been off my center and I didn't know why. You know what I mean? Or I stayed out too late, or didn't get enough sleep, or I was not concentrating, or I was chit-chatting with somebody, or I was not focused. And I was like, oof, I'm not, I'm not, you know, it it takes some work and some self-knowledge to develop your own stamina.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

I'm glad you went into that. I was gonna ask you sort of the hows of that. And I think those were all wonderful reminders. So it's kind of like whatever works for you. That's self-care. Well, I appreciate you sharing that. And I know we're running out of time here. So before we roll out, I would just appreciate if you could share. We we always end with like a got and a give. So these will be some Goldwyn nuggets. I don't know why I keep saying that. And it's basically a a piece of advice you got from someone in the industry, and then the best piece that you have to give. So we could start with the got. What do you feel like the best piece of advice you got from somebody throughout this journey has been?

SPEAKER_02 57:56

The best piece of advice I've gotten, which I've quoted a billion times, but uh when I was deciding to trying to decide to be an actor, and I was terrified because I didn't know if I had the ability to do it. My brother-in-law, who is a very brilliant jazz musician and very successful, said to me, Tony, when I was your age, I had the same thing. And I knew if I committed a hundred percent to my passion, I would either achieve what I thought I was gonna achieve or it would lead me to something that I didn't even know. But if I didn't commit 100% to that thing that was burning inside of me, uh, I would always feel maybe I could have done it. And I don't want to be that guy. And that sustained me through many lean times. And I was like, well, I don't know if this is gonna work, but I committed to it. So, you know, I'm gonna I commit. And and I I feel that way on every project I do because there's always moments where you're like, this isn't gonna work. Like, what are we doing? And I'm like, no, I just commit to the process. And I know if I just commit, I will come out the other end, as opposed to getting freaked out and bailing or getting too caught up in like, what if this doesn't happen or what if that doesn't work? You know, so that was the best advice I ever got.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

Commit to the bet. And and you've I love that. And you've given so much advice, but do you have anything else you would give?

SPEAKER_02 59:11

Yeah, the only thing I'm saying, I mean, that was so genius, but to give it's like this is a survivor's game. Don't get caught up in like it's gotta happen. I gotta be here now. I gotta be like, look at that person next to me, and like my my peers like gotten ahead, and one I'm I'm supposed to be at this stage, at this point in my career at 25 or whatever the hell it is, or anywhere. It's a survivor's game. The goal is to be like, build a body of work and still be doing it. This is my my father used to say this, you know, like in your 50s. If you're still doing your thing in your 50s and you built, then you're winning, man. You know, if you're winning 51% of the time, you're a rock star. So um, you know, we can get very we can get very caught up in thinking it's all supposed to be happening on a certain schedule that we thought was how it was supposed to happen, and it's just not true. And um, I know in my career, just think career-wise, you know, I had those anxieties when I was in my 20s, and then those people who surpassed me, I then my career way surpassed them, and then 10 years later, they then have out some break if they stay in the business, like they're being rediscovered. And, you know, and so now at my age, I work over and over again with these people, and we all started out together, and we all have these kind of really awesome, rich, interesting careers. And what I really acknowledge about them and we acknowledge about each other is not that they were the hot person at this moment or that moment. Look at the caliber of their work, look what they do. I just love working with these artists that I get to work with who I've known since we were all kids. And now I'm like, I just love Dylan Baker's work, man. You know, like a Dylan and I started out together, and every time we work together, I'm like, you're so great. It's so fun to celebrate it, or Kate Burton or any Jeff Perry. I mean, all these people that I've known forever, or directors that I've worked with. There's so many people that I know, you know, that I celebrate what is celebrated as the fabric of their process and their artistry, not when they were were not the hot item.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:20

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

I love that. I also love that both of the pieces of advice you gave stemmed from your family. I think that probably who you are as a person. You said both family members, which is which is really beautiful. And I mean, speaking of family, if I don't just say this really quick before we go, my mom will kill me. So which could you just say hi to my mom? Hi, mom.

unknown 1:01:41

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

She's like your biggest fan. Okay, I usually I've actually never done that in an interview, but I felt it was important today. But I I appreciate you so much, Tony. I hope you stay, you know, curious and kind, and I'm sure you will. It's great that we have a role model in you to look up to because we need more of that, I think. So I appreciate your openness and thoughtfulness. He I could just see your gears turning with every question that you really wanted to help the actors listening. So thank you on their behalf.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

Okay, great. Well, it's great talking to you. Thank you. Okay, you too.