Oscar-Nominee Malgosia Turzanska (Hamnet): What Actors Can Learn from Costume Design

How can actors collaborate with costume designers to fully bring a character to life and ground them in humanity onscreen? Hamnet’s Oscar-nominated Costume Designer Malgosia Turzanska* answers this question and many more, alongside host and actor Robert Peterpaul, in How We Role's insightful season 2 premiere. 

This special episode explores:
• Vital lessons that actors can learn from costume designers.
• What actors should have prepared for costume fittings.
• Hidden design details in Malgosia's work (from Hamnet to Stranger Things) that anchor performers.
• The ways texture and weight influence performances, from breath to movement.
• Why authentic compliments matter in the entertainment industry and much more.

*Malgosia Turzanska was born and raised in Krakow, Poland. She has a BFA in Costume Design from DAMU in Prague, Czech Republic and an MFA in Costume Design from NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts. Her design credits include Season 1 of Stranger Things and the A24 horror films X and Pearl starring Mia Goth, which inspired many a Halloween costume over the past couple years. She had a rousing 2026 awards season, designing Clint Bentley’s Train Dreams and a film adaptation of the book Hamnet directed by Chloé Zhao and starring Paul Mescal as William Shakespeare and Jessie Buckley as Agnes. Among other accolades, Hamnet earned 8 Academy Award nominations, marking her first Oscar nod.

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Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.

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Transcript

Season Two Kickoff & Guest Intro

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Hi, my name is Maugosia Tuszańska, and I'm the costume designer of Hamnet. I speak three languages. I speak Polish, Czech, and English. And I do not entirely know my height in inches, so I am 165 centimeters tall. You're listening to how we roll.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

That's the best answer I've ever received. I'm sorry I interrupted you. Thank you. You nail that. When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to How We Roll, a podcast for actors by casting networks. Hello, actors. It's your friendly neighborhood podcast host, Robert Peter Paul, welcoming you to season two of How We Roll. We're back and hungrier for more answers than ever. This season, we're going to break down even deeper hows, all in the effort of empowering you with tangible advice to follow your dreams. Consider listening here like fueling up for your whirlwind but magical journey ahead. Our first stop this season to continue this metaphor is all about building a character. Now, I recently had a costume fitting for a new role I booked, and I was struck by how many parallels there are between costume designers and actors. As you know, so much of an actor's work is an inside job. And while costume design covers, literally, it covers, the outside, it also very much is about building a human from the inside out. I particularly felt this way recently while watching one of the year's best films, Hamnet. And we are so lucky to have an expert at this very topic from this very film I just mentioned. Today's guest is Oscar nominee Malgozia Terzanska. Malgosia Terzanska was born and raised in Krakow, Poland. She has a BFA in costume design from DAMU in Prague, Czech Republic, and an MFA in costume design from NYU's Tisch School of the Arts. Her design credits include season one of Stranger Things, I'm trying not to geek out, as well as the A24 horror films X and Pearl, starring Mia Goth, which inspired many a Halloween costume over the past couple of years. Malgosia is having a rousing 2026 awards season as she designed Clint Bentley's Train Dreams, currently nominated in the Best Picture category at the Academy Awards, and a film adaptation of the book Hamnet, directed by Chloe Jiao, and starring Paul Mezcal as William Shakespeare and Jesse Buckley as Agnes, aka Anne Hathaway, not the actor. Among other accolades, Hamnet has earned eight Academy Award nominations. Although if you're listening to this in the future, I'm guessing it will have won some of those, if not all of the eight. Malgosia is a first-time nominee for best costume design. She lives in a tiny hamlet in upstate New York, and when not working on movies, she is creating textile sculptures and impractical furniture. Now, FYI, we do spoil a lot of ham knit, so try to watch the film first if you ham knit. If you ham not. Haven't ham knit. There's a pun in there somewhere. I also hope you'll join us on YouTube to watch full video episodes of these conversations. Now, we want you to help us decide what hows we're covering this season. So please find us on social media at Casting Networks and at Rob PeterPall and submit your house for a chance to be featured in one of our upcoming episodes. Now, without further ado, let's focus on our premiere episode, which centers on what actors and other creatives can learn from the costume design process. I so enjoyed this conversation featuring Oscar nominee, Malgosha Tersanska. Let's roll.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

As I already have told you multiple times, and it's been maybe two minutes before we started recording, I am a huge admirer of your work. Congratulations on, I mean, overall, the Oscar nomination for Hamnet, it is so deeply deserved by you and your team.

Hamnet’s Intimacy Reaching A Global Audience

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Thank you so, so much. And yes, on behalf of my phenomenal team, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Well, I love that you share the credit there because as you will know soon when I just keep complimenting you for an hour, it is deserved, like I said. So Hamnet to me, it feels both poetic, intimate, and handmade. I mean, what does it feel like, first of all, just before we get into things, to now celebrate something so intimate on a massive scale?

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Honestly, it is. I'm so glad you bring this up because this, you know, I've seen myself, I've seen the movie now, I think seven times. And so I've seen it with very different audiences in a few different countries.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

How do you have eyeballs? My tears would have just dried my eyes out. I would be passed away.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Still, still absolutely 100% affects me. But what has been the most incredible aspect of this whole time has been watching people continually leave their cynicism at the door and open themselves themselves up to the movie and like let the movie in and let it hurt them and let it take them on the journey and sort of come out at the other side and like do it along with the audience, with you know, with a crowd of strangers, which is so beautiful to me and so powerful and so truly yes, it is it was a very intimate and very magical, uh, magical time when we made the movie, but to see it affecting people on such a deeply personal and human level, it is absolutely astonishing. And every time I go to a Q ⁇ A when we see people leaving, you know, when the credits come up and we see people come back, you know, come back to reality from seeing the movie, it is absolutely the most powerful thing.

First Jobs And Training Across Continents

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Oh, I'm sure. I've seen a lot of before and after TikToks of people without puffy eyes and then puffy red eyes, which I now am a part of that club. And before we get even more down the hamnet rabbit hole here, before this fanfare, one of the questions that we want to start asking this season, just to set the scene for our guest, is what was your very first job in the entertainment industry?

SPEAKER_03 7:31

So, uh, this is interesting because I started in theater, actually.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

I started in theater and I'm trying to think because I um I went to a uh theater design school in in Prague, uh, a school called Damu, and FAMU is the the famous film school there. And so I would do uh shorts with the the students at Damu, and I'm trying to figure out what was the first one.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Um I love that you started in a theater.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

I think not because I wanted to, very honestly, it's because I had to, because you couldn't do um in that program, you had to go through the bachelor's degree through theater design in order to do master's in film. But by the time I got to my master's, I moved to New York. So so I did I did uh the rest of my school in um atish at NYU. But I think the first short that I did was about Alice from Alice in Wonderland, and it was a little bit of a there was Alice and there was a her family, her her actual family, uh having a picnic. Um, and suddenly things started getting a little bit, a little bit magical. And it was so exciting. And we shot outside in this beautiful garden in Prague, and yeah, it was it was it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

That is magical. And now you're making movie magic overall, but it's funny that you mentioned theater because I could see Hamnet as a beautiful Broadway play. I mean, sort of the the stillness of it and the richness and just to be in the front row and see your beautiful designs up close would just be insanely amazing. As I told you, I just watched Hamnet. I wanted to wait until right before we talked.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

I had a screener, I watched it on the train, which watch it on the big screen if you can. I'm gonna try and do that too. Don't watch it on the train because you will be a train wreck. I recommend the movie, but not watching it on the train. I was crying. I looked like I was not okay in just a corner by myself by the window, just staring at the window, like literally heaving. So I think what you said before, to me, stories like this and films like this are part of the answer, I think, to try and uniting this world. Yes. Because it's sort of that in a microcosm. And I heard it all began because you read the book and you fell in love with the book, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Exactly. That's exactly it. And then I found out that Chloe was adapting it, and I just, you know, I was desperate to throw my my name into the hat.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

And Chloe was a fellow student of yours that you almost crossed paths with more specifically at NYU. But I love that you fought for yourself. And I think as creatives in general, we have to do that, but it's a fine line, right? So what's your advice on that front?

Fighting For Collaborations And Writing The Email

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Well, so this is actually it it came from Sandy Powell, whom I have never met in person, but I absolutely love her her design aesthetic and her she is uh, you know, just a super talent. And I read an interview with her where she said that she decided to write a letter to Derek Jarmin and told him that she absolutely must work with him, and it worked. And I was like, okay, this is what I shall do. Yeah. And so I saw years and years ago, I saw um David Lowry's short called Pioneer, which to this day is one of my favorite films. Wow, check it out. And it's it's delicious. Um, and I decided to just whatever I could do, I I wanted to get in touch with him, and I found his email somewhere. And so I just started emailing him. And then we made a movie together a few years later. We made a movie called In Them Body Saints and then Green Knight, and you know, we're friends, and and I I'm so so thrilled for he has a new movie coming out very soon. Um and so it worked.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Wow, yeah, sort of taking the chance and being vulnerable. Yeah, vulnerable is a huge ingredient just to any artist.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

But it basically, I feel like if you truly honestly are responding to someone's work, you need to let them know. Because, you know, we're we're we're working very hard, you know, all the the the film industry is is a complicated and and and heavy, heavy industry to be in for for various reasons. And so if you see something that touches you, whether it's the costumes or sets or or the direction or whatever it is, and you have the ability to reach out and tell someone you did something that touched me, just do it. Why not? Whatever comes out of it, you let them know that it worked. And we have, you know, as artists, we have so many doubts and self-doubts. And so to hear that something worked is incredible.

Building Characters From The Inside Out

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Yeah, it's it's so true to hear you say that because I think as a non-costume designer, the only thing I tend to design costume-wise are little Judge Judys on my shoulders, you know, trying to get in my head. And I say, hey, we're not gonna be here today. But I see parallels already in what you just shared because you've talked so much about how this story and project started with emotion, and that was how you and Chloe and the rest of the team were really aligned. And on this podcast, we always talk about building characters for actors, which starts with that. So from that perspective, I'd love to hear sort of the psychology behind how you craft a human through clothing.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Yeah, I think if you start from the inside out, if you if you create these this um emotional skeleton for yourself, then no matter where you move, what period you move into, it's going to ring true because you already know what the what the emotional value of it is. Um and so I always try to start that way because it just I find it more helpful and more just true, you know, just more honest. And so um when I started, it was just a book. I we didn't have the script yet. And so the look book that I made was, you know, it was my response to the text, and it was mostly through color and texture, and there was a lot of nature since Anya's is so deeply connected to to the forest, to, to just so organic. Um and and so there was a lot of a lot of um kind of organic, woodsy textures, there was a lot of plant life, um, there was blood, there was, you know, fleshiness. And then on the other side with with um whale's character, there was a little bit more of restraint and kind of a little bit more of silence. And then using the the period, I did have some some period imagery already in this lookbook where normally I don't really do that, but but here it helped to connect the the shapes and the slashes of Elizabethan and Tudor clothing into his character and just kind of showing these silent screams growing throughout the throughout the movie. Um and so it was a lot of that. It was it was mostly like textures and temperatures and and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

The two T's, textures and temperatures. I like that. Well, how long did you sort of live in that world of research? I know you love research, and as an actor, I really enjoy that part too. What was that phase like specifically for Hamnet?

Research, Period Lexicon, And Lookbooks

SPEAKER_03 15:26

So I started because we didn't know initially, I didn't know when the movie was going to happen. So I started the summer before. I think I was already doing a little bit of research, and so I had a chance to go to museums and and and you know, get into books um and just start getting a little bit more familiar with the with the era. But then I started another movie. I I did train dreams right before we went to um what a year for you. It would truly just it's insane.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

What a train dream. I'm a train wreck, you're a train dream. Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Exactly. But while I was in Spokane while we were shooting, uh while we were shooting train dreams, I didn't have access to to museums. So it was just books and it was, you know, m research through the internet. But at least I could get my hands on certain things and get get my head in the game and like make sure that I I was literate in the um in the fashion lexicon of the time that I was not coming into it just completely clueless. But the second I, you know, I got to London, I I started going to to see the real, you know, the real clothing and museums and and galleries and so on to just kind of get as much as I as I could. But it was it was a good a good few months that I had to actually, you know, start living in that time, which was very helpful.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Well, you mentioned lexicon. Now I'm curious, is there a word or a specific type of garment or a phrase that you just found really cool and you're gonna keep with you from that research, like that you didn't know, maybe that you discovered?

SPEAKER_03 17:02

I I had no idea about a lot of it. So, you know, the the bodice was actually called the bodies, which is hard to say. As already I'm a you know a Polish Polish person with a with an accent. So I don't use it in interviews because I think it's just going to sound strange. But the bodies it could make you sound smarter.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Some of us can't speak more than one language, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

But um points as the little um little ties that used to connect because the mo the clothing was so very, very modular. And so you could um connect things with with uh pins or you could connect things with ties. And the ties with the little metal, uh, metal uh aglets were called points. So that's that's something that I that I didn't know. And then a jerkin, a doublet, you know, all these all these things.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

A penner, the the little um, the little container for for ink and a quill that you could have slung for your belt, which we used on Will. Um so yeah, there was there was a lot a lot of cool little little words that will stay, will stay in my vocabulary.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

It's also fascinating. I feel like from every project, you almost need a shelf of curiosities or something that you you take with you. I'm always wondering how much of a character's design is sort of fully formed before you meet the actor. On this movie, it really centers on two very incredible actors, Jesse and Paul. So I'm wondering when you're dealing with performers like that on that level, how much wiggle room is there, how much collaboration?

SPEAKER_03 18:30

There's always collaboration, and that's honestly that's the best part because they bring so much physicality and life to it that you know, I have to listen. I have to know what they feel. Um, and so here when we started, Jesse actually did send me and and Nicole and Fiona, Nicole Stafford, our um hair and makeup designer, and Fiona Carambia, our production designer. Jesse would send us um images, songs very often, just you know, just bits and bobs that she found for some reason meaning meaningful, even though maybe she didn't know entirely why something was speaking to her. And so we already had, you know, we had this dialogue going. So when she came in, it was we had a little bit of a shorthand already, we were familiar with one another. Uh, and also once I had sketches, I shared them both with Jesse and with Paul. They, you know, they were aware of where where I'm headed. And so there's time for, you know, if there's any like super red flags or or something that seems very, very wrong, I always try to leave that space to be like, oh, this might not work. Um so yeah, just just trying to establish that dialogue, you know, you don't you you don't always have that opportunity because people also work on movies back to back and sometimes there's no mental space to be to be in, you know, in prep while you're still shooting. And actually it was really interesting with with Jessie because she was actually on Maggie Jill and Hall's The Bride. And so when she came into us, she was bleached blonde with black nails and gigantic energy. Oh my god. And she had to kind of like figure out how to how to carve Anyas out of this.

Actor Collaboration And Fittings As Creative Labs

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah, that makes sense that it would sort of be too a lot in the wardrobe room, because from what I know, it gets sort of very almost therapy-like sometimes I hear in in fittings, especially. And I'd love to just dissect actor fittings with you for a moment because I love them and I feel like they're not usually talked about too in depth. Is it's usually, I think, an actor's sort of first exposure to the world and their new onset family, especially day players. It's like you go right to the fitting, that's your first thing. Do you think about fittings as sort of setting any tone for the process as as a leader? Is that something you think about?

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Definitely. And we always try to have some music. So if the actors send us music, we usually have that, you know, to try to capture the what they were already looking into. If not, it's period music or you know, something that is somehow connected, connected to to the era to just kind of get you into the atmosphere of the of the piece and kind of make it easier to switch out your your mind from you know from the outside world. We also have, you know, we have sketches, we have like character boards on the wall so you can see, you can see the world around you. Sometimes like on this one, we also had um we had little bits of moss and rocks and little bits of wood just to, you know, just bring a little bit of of the set in. Um that's incredible. And then it's just kind of letting, you know, sometimes it's hard because you you you struggle with time, you you know, you have a finite amount of amount amount of time. And especially to begin with, you know, it never works that way that you like put something on and it's perfect, or very, very rarely. And also with these things where we'll we're building, you know, we're building all the costumes. So you often have a mock-up of something and then a sort of of uh dyed piece of fabric. So you have to use your imagination and kind of be, you know, let yourself explore and play. And yeah, without without the actor being open to it, it's not possible. So I'm you know, we are just partners in it.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Well, looking at that partnership and that openness, do you have any advice for actors on approaching fittings overall? Is there anything you think actors can do to make your job easier and their job easier?

SPEAKER_03 22:40

I think sending initial, you know, communicating, but without sending like a shirt or this pair of pants. It's not that. If you send a feeling or you know, something that helps understand the way you are imagining this person. It's not an object necess I mean, it could be an object, but don't try to see the end before we all know where we're going. And so, and it's the same thing with um, you know, not everything is going to fit, not everything is going to work, the things that we put on. It's kind of like when you're getting ready. For a party, and you know, you usually try on several outfits, you know, or um, and you tweak something, you you know, fold something. So you have to be open to exploring and just, you know, turning things a little bit inside out and seeing, like, well, what if what if we do this? So so it's just not trying to pre-judge the situation, but just being open and just playing.

Color As Language: Blood, Wounds, And Arcs

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Which is just great wisdom for life in general, too. Malgota, I mean, okay. So that collaboration on Hamnet specifically was with Jesse Buckley and Paul Mezcal. I mean, just two incredible talents as Agnes and Shakespeare, so stunning. And what I just was blown away by was the visual arcs you created that were so tangible, I think, for viewers, but not in any sort of obvious or sort of in-your-face way. And yet you could take it away more so than a lot of movies that I've seen. So, what was it like working with them on these arcs?

SPEAKER_03 25:15

So it was just making sure that I'm not in the way and that I'm not saying things for them, that that I am creating uh something that helps to tell the story and that helps lead the audience in a little bit. I wanted to make sure that I'm not um being overly decorative or or doing things that seem cool, you know, that like, yes, of course it looks cool. There's like there there's p bits from from the tutor fashion that are incredible.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

But I wanted Shakespeare's vest, the gray one that he wears in the beginning. I was like, can I get that?

SPEAKER_03 25:53

But the thing is that this story is so so subtle. It's incredibly powerful, but it's because it it starts very speaking very, very quietly, and you don't want to overpower anything. And so I was just editing everything down and making sure that it was stripped of anything that was unnecessary and just carried the emotional load in like the fewest possible words, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Kind of like kill your darlings, which is advice for writers.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Yeah, no, total it's just or or Coco Chanel, you know, like take before you leave, take one thing off, or or whatever whatever she said, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

That's what I I tried to say that to myself when I was making my question list for you, but I definitely have enough questions for like three hours, so buggle up. No, I'm gonna try and keep it in the time frame. So this film, you know, it really centers on grief. I don't need to tell you that, and that's why I was a train wreck. The ultimate wound. And in studying your costumes and researching you, which was super fun, and I'm just gonna keep doing it after this, and probably every day because you're just so incredible. I aesthetically, I just I could see, and I've heard you talk about this the stages of not only grief, but a wound in Jesse's wardrobe specifically, from that sort of like auburn red color, fiery color to then like scabbing over. How much of the arc, I guess to just break this down more specifically, are you talking about prior to actually dressing them on set? Like, is it ever evolving throughout the process? You said you kept editing it, but just from a storytelling.

Hidden Details, Props, And Actor Ownership

SPEAKER_03 27:25

It definitely evolves, but it basically when I I always sketch before, you know, before we start building the costumes. So I have something to share with with the director, with the DP, uh, and with the actors. And it just became very, very apparent that, and we talked about blood actually with Chloe and with Jesse. And so it just became very apparent that this is going to be the language of her, you know, of her costume arc. And then, you know, we start kind of vibrant, then it goes when she starts having children, it goes more. I I just try to call it the the blood slows down. It is more rusty, it's just a little bit heavier. And then when when she loses Hamnet, it turns into the scab, as you mentioned, the the purples, prunes, very cool browns, grays. And then when she goes back, when she goes to the globe, she gets a little bit of that blood circulating back. So so we see the vibrancy slowly seeping back in. And then with Will, the arc was the the idea of the wound was there very much as well, but it was a little bit different. There were several several ways we went about this. One was starting with uh the character of John, Will's father, who is a very violent man, and we keep witnessing him kind of taking these jabs and aggressions towards Will. And I found out that during the era, um, a lot of people wore um toothpicks as a decorative item on their necklaces. And so we had we had we made this necklace for for John, which the the toothpick was a very kind of claw-like, nasty, violent shape. And I was imagining he takes it and like jabs and cuts physically into will. And so we started with these scratches on him that then grew into the Elizabethan slashes, which is called pinking, um, which are, you know, as I mentioned, this is a traditional um fashion of the period, but we used it here to create these wounds, physics like actually literal wounds that then grow and grow and end finally on the on the cracked clay moment uh when he is the ghost in in Hamlet. But there was an idea of the wound and also of this like little silent scream, since he had no um no ability to express himself the way that Anez did. She is very her emotions are very, you know, she she has easiness of accessing her emotions, whereas he b buried them deeper, and it took a longer period of time for him to actually get to the point that he gets to at the very, very, very end of the play.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah, I was just scrolling through my questions here because I had one exactly about that. You know, without I mean, I don't have to go down a rabbit hole here, but you know, my brother, my little brother Thomas passed away when we were little, and I saw thank you, and and I saw this movie play out almost between my parents. I saw how people grieving differently can really drive them to, you know, separate or ping-pong. And I just appreciated that being displayed on film in such a way. And I wonder for you, I mean, there's so much grief. It's like then Will's grieving the loss of the father he could have been, because he probably could have been a better dad than his own father was. And so I guess what was it like for you to sort of display that contrast in you're not only creating different arcs for them, but you're trying to make sure that they're they're shown as completely different people.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Yeah. And it, you know, this is with actors like this.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Very honestly, I have very little to do. They are brilliant and they they put so much thought into it. And um, you know, thank you for sharing, sharing this about your brother, and I'm so, so sorry. And while we were shooting, my my own dad passed away, and so I had, you know, myself as a as a case study a little bit of like, what am I doing with it? You know, how am I processing my my emotions? And so it was the movie was very informative for me, and I was informative for my take on the movie. So it was a, you know, it was a a weirdly symbiotic uh moment.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Um thank you.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

But everyone, you know, there were other crew members which who were going through through loss or or um you know, through through just family, family very, very sad situations. And so I think we all put our own feelings into the movie and and we kind of tried to help help the movie by helping ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

It's so healing.

unknown 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah. Well, it worked.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

See, at the end, uh, you know, the the the the globe, the the crowd at the globe, and feeling, you know, being surrounded by this this filmmaking village, it just it just was something quite incredible.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

I can't wait to get there. That's one of my favorite scenes I think I've ever seen on screen as someone who's gotten to go to the globe and experience that. I just felt like I was back there again and on so many other levels, you know. But before we get there, I'm wondering, even just looking at Will's family versus Agnes's, which is a bit more colorful in garment. Wills is very monochromatic, and you've talked about how it was a camouflage because none of them wanted to maybe stick out to the father who was abusive. And then Will also, I believe there was something with the real William Shakespeare's favorite ink in one of his costumes. I mean, Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Most of the costumes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Most of the costumes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Well, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Well, I just want to know, I mean, I kept writing down the same question over and over. It's like, how much of this psychology and process do the actors actually know before they film? Like how much do they have in their because they have so much already going on in their brain that I imagine you can't tell them everything, but I also imagine that would be so helpful.

Texture, Weight, And The Feel Of Grief

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Yeah. So the ink definitely, you know, we we talked a lot about it with Paul. He wanted to have ink stains on his clothing, on his fingers, you know, that that came from him. And also the fact that, you know, I mentioned the penner, the the little container for for um quill uh and and and um the inkwell. And normally in the era, men would have, even in addition to that, you would have a dagger. And he was like, I do not need a dagger. All I need is this, you know, this is my this is my weapon, this is this is my object. And so um he was definitely deeply involved in that. But finding that ink and like having access to that, we just diluted it and and you know, the different grays um that it created, it that informed the the that grayscale that that he is, you know, after the initial blues and greens that we see him in, he goes more into into a grayscale. Um so that was from that. But he was very excited that you know we had we had access to it. And of course, like in London, you can buy anything. So it was uh it was a really, really cool, cool thing to have.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

At Herod's alone, right? They say you can buy everything from a pin to an elephant. I forget what the phrase is, but well, now we have Amazon too. But anyway, this is not an ad for that. I'd love to hear of any more secrets like this that maybe are in the costumes that the camera might not see, but the actors do know are there. Those are some of my favorite things to hear about.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

So the the first one is the, you know, when we see Agnes wake up in the first, in the first shot when she's asleep at the um at the base of a tree, the bodies that she wears. It's made of bar cloth. So she is literally wearing a tree while being asleep at the tree, which that was um that was something that felt like a an important uh an important moment, um, even though it is absolutely not period correct, but it felt correct to our, you know, authentic to our little story.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

And you said it kind of kept coming undone a little bit too, right?

Designing The Globe: Crowd, Players, And Paint

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Yeah, like not even undone, it just like the fibers would start like having a life of its own, of their own. Um and then another, another one of those things is um, you know, for the for the globe characters, which I I I think you you want to talk about the globe later, so maybe we'll definitely get there, but you talk about whatever you want, we'll go, we'll reverse, we'll go to the right, we'll go to the left, we'll drive all over. Um so maybe I'll I'll start with with Anez's family, actually. So, or not her family, her stepfamily. So her stepmother is um actually I love those costumes very much. Um, they are the most vibrant in the film, but it was, you know, I I I tried looking at the um the natural dyes of the of the era. And so we were playing with the different dye swatches, and I've never worked with, I've worked with natural dyes before, but I've never worked with weld. And weld looks very innocent, a little innocent plant, and produces this incredibly vibrant bile yellow that was so unsettling and so like you couldn't turn away. And so I was like, this is Joan. She has she's like so filled, filled with bile. And so we use that on her, on her um sleeves, actually. So there's a little bit of weld, and then there's the color of the underside of it is weld mixed with indigo, so it creates kind of nasty-ish green, and then she has some pink on. So she is, you know, she's trying to have all these colors on, but she is, it does not cover her, her real, her real character. And I I love that we had, you know, that we I I thought this was gonna get pulled in the end that it would be too bright, but it is it isn't real.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

No, that's phenomenal. I mean, sort of the the other ring that colors can create on screen. I also felt like the stepmother, correct me if I'm wrong, but almost had the colors of she had all the colors of her children, the girls had similar colors, the boys did, but then no one shared with Agnes, sorry. Yeah, and so I almost said Anne Hathaway, which is a different thing. But yeah, I I felt like that and then the scene where she's wandering around the town and she's just popping in her red. I mean, the way that actors sort of don't need to do that work, like the way you can you can physically just show that with a costume is like storytelling right there. I mean, it's just it's storytelling with colors. Sorry, this sounds so obvious. But I when, you know, when you get, I can't stop complimenting you, when you get on a set, one thing I was really, really curious about is the partnership between you and actors in the sense of if an actor wants a shirt unbuttoned in a scene, if they want to roll up their sleeves, you know, there's the whole pregnant montage where she kind of has this interesting shape on her belly because it's tight open and then it kind of rips open. It's like, is that just whatever serves the story best?

SPEAKER_03 38:42

100%. And I I want the actors to have full ownership of the costume and feel like they are not um what's the word cum encumbrate?

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Yeah. So they need to be able to move freely and they need to be able to, you know, like how the story develops, and it feels like you have to take something off or you know, roll up your sleeves and so on. And especially with Will, the way, the way he embodied his costume, it made it look so modern and so alive that you never feel like this is, you know, this is a a man from a 16th century, like stiff portrait. He was he was living, breathing, and and and able to move and and dynamic. And so that's that's very important to me that they they feel comfortable just living in it.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yeah. I mean, when you picture William Shakespeare, we all see maybe that same poster that was hanging up in our English classroom or literature classroom, and it's not that. I mean, I don't even think Will's name is used until very late in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

The very end. Just that the very end, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

So you forget who it is. I forgot it was William Shakespeare, which I think is probably the point.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Yeah, which is incredible. I wonder from from him, you've gave given some examples, but even to Hamnet, I think Hamnet's wearing sort of a flower crown at one point, and then the kids have these fun Macbeth costumes. Yeah. Were there any elements that the actors actually helped you make or put together?

SPEAKER_03 40:09

That's a good question. Well, so Emily Watson's character, Mary, she um she had this whole backstory about Catholicism and being her being a secret Catholic. And so she is wearing a pomander on her um, on a chain around her waist. So it's a it's a little egg that would have, you know, a little bit of perfume in it. Um, so you could, you know, you could spread, you could spread uh a nice scent around you. Um but she started using it, she was like, oh, this is interesting. Maybe this is my rosary. And so in moments, in in in tough moments, she would hold on to it and she would use it kind of secretly as a rosary, which I really, really loved. And I would have never come up with that, you know, it never would have crossed my mind. So that was really beautiful. And then let's see what else, what else was like that? We had the kids um play with gloves from you know from the father's workshop. And so there's one scene where they're saying goodbye to Will uh as he's leaving to London, and they have those gloves on on like a little string on their necks, and they're you know, they're they're playing with them a little bit, which was really cute.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Well, the metaphor of gloves, too. That mean that wasn't lost in me and that's a whole other rabbit hole. But spoiler alert, I think we've already said it, in Hamnet's death scene, I'm sure everybody knows that by now, there's a black fabric placed over the lens. And I just wondered, did you have any involvement in sort of sourcing or conceptualizing that fabric?

SPEAKER_03 41:39

So actually, so that fabric, that texture is the backdrop of the theater. It is shot through that. And that's actually a beautiful story because it wasn't in the the shot didn't look like that in the original plan. And the DP, Wuka Zal and Chloe were, you know, they were uh talking around the camera and they saw our amazing stills photographer, um, Agata Grzbowska shooting through that the scrim of the backdrop. And they were like, wait a second. So so that's where it came from. And so that is that is that is the backdrop, yeah.

Logistics: Extras, Sound Packs, And Balance

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Such a beautiful moment. And then of course we we touched on their reaction to their son passing away, the difference in the grief. And I think the question I was dancing around and looking for before was I guess how did you approach this and even just the overall film and other work you've done with texture, with weight, with restriction, with looseness? How does that sort of come into play? Not just the the arc of the designs, but sort of saying, like, okay, if we make the fabric heavier, like the actor will feel heaviness. I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

So this will that that that is a good question. And so, for example, with with Emily's character, she starts so, you know, so stiff and buttoned up. And as she's going through the story, um, she is losing a little bit, like we see more into her. And so, and we talked about it, and she, you know, when when she we see her at the birth, the twins' birth scene, she is more open. But when we see her in the uh in the Hamnet death scene, she is the most uncovered. And we actually see kind of into into her, you know, we see her flesh, we see her breathing, we see her sweat, and and and uh it was, I thought it was such a beautiful, such a beautiful shift from, you know, being kind of covered up. Um but here, you know, this was Anez was such an animal, like such a creature, so connected to her emotions, and truly we didn't know on the day where she was gonna go. So, so it was, you know, nobody, I don't think anyone was encumbered by by the clothing, um, kind of specifically and had to break, break out, other than the final, the final moment with with Paul covered in that clay um clay sheet, which was you know, like that was like physically heavy, and and he had to get, you know, get out of it and wash it off his face.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Incredible. Well, we're there. I mean, the final Globe Theater sequence that you shot, I think, toward the end of filming as well, from the groundlings who I think we're considered smelly, talk about like sense and smells, to the upper crust balcony attendees, to then the players on stage. It's such an epic moment for this intimate film, especially. And I wonder what it was like for you to sort of have this joyful final challenge of creating an ecosystem, basically.

Personal Imprints, Serendipity, And Easter Eggs

SPEAKER_03 44:33

It was uh just phenomenal. It was um a blessing that we did it at the very, very end because what it meant is we could fit our we had 350 extras there. We could continue fitting them throughout the whole shoot. And if something was not right, we could make other things, dye things, you know, we we could make them look as good as they needed to look and as real and as complete. Since we have Agnes and Bartholomew kind of walk through the crowd and we never knew where they're gonna be. It's not like you have like the best dressed people around them, and then you know, the ones who have finished in the back. This was not possible here. So we had to make sure that truly everyone was tip top, which worked beautifully. And then same with the the players. That was honestly maybe my favorite part of it because it was at this point we had all the all the other costumes were made and established, and um, and it was just a beautiful jump to something else. And it almost felt like for my for my whole team, like we were suddenly doing the school play for the the end of the school year, you know? It was a different language, it was um just a different task, and I really loved it. Um, and so the, you know, in the truly in the in the time, the the players on the stage would be wearing pretty much the same as the um as the people in the audience. They the the costumes would have been donated by the by the benefactors. Um so the people in the audience would kind of recognize themselves on stage in these stories, which does not work for us as a you know, as an audience through uh the silver screen. So my goal was to create something that was um kind of halfway between them and now, them and us, and and then and now. And so we went with the Elizabethan shapes, and here was the moment that we could play with it, you know, just exploded a little bit. Um, but we made them out of raw linen and then painted them with with latex paint, which definitely not a not a historical true, true moment here. Um definitely poetic license, but I think it made it work because it it created something that is not that like to me, it would be believable to see it in a theater today. It like I understand it, this is a theater costume, but also it created this beautiful way of looking at the artistic process and the fact that this is the first time this play is being presented. It's not yet, you know, fossilized in any way. It's new, it's being thought up as we see it. So those um the the raw brush strokes, the sort of unfinished aspect of it was very important to me. And then taking that language further and putting it onto the the Hamlet and Hamnet duality and having Will kind of, I imagine that he created this memory of Hamlet and then put it in this very, very simplified way onto the character of Hamlet with the paint, you know, that resembles the the colors of Hamlet's clothing, including the hair, the painted hair. That this was um Nicole, our brilliant hair and makeup designer. This was her idea. And it just kind of gelled and and created its own its own language. And I absolutely loved working on the globe. And the globe is also, you know, we built the globe. Fiona and her team built the globe, and there's a scene where you see it being being built, and the the actors building the globe are the actual construction guys that we so we had so much fun. Um, and also Chloe is in the globe.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

I was gonna ask you, I saw a picture of Chloe being fitted for something.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

Exactly, exactly. So that is that is that she was in the in the middle of the balcony. Wow. So we can it just felt, you know, we were at that point, everyone was friends, we loved each other, and just making this this final production, it just felt so so beautiful and so so bright, you know.

Craft, Community, And Parting Advice

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Yeah. And is that something in looking at these, I think you said almost 300 background players? And I mean, and and so I wonder, are you just sort of balancing textures and colors and sort of saying, okay, I just want to evenly have it. So on the day, if there's too much of this there, we can shift that. Is that sort of how that yeah, 100%?

SPEAKER_03 49:02

And it's we had our AD team were also in costumes, so they were in the crowd and they could communicate, you know, so you could like from the monitor, you could be like, Oh, there's too much, you know, too much yellow here, or you know, um, so so it was, yeah, there was there are many people in costumes. Okay. And um, yeah, I think uh people from the art department as well who had, you know, props and stuff. So um, yeah, we dressed a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

Okay, I I wonder this is a very nitty-gritty question, but as far as I this might not be your department because I know it's sound, but do you ever have to design or alter something for an actor's mic pack?

SPEAKER_03 49:38

Yes, definitely. Yeah, we always have to think about it. And, you know, you you want it to be as especially if it's a the same costume worn over and over again, you want it to be as seamless as possible. So we often will stitch in little pockets, um, just so it's, you know, so it's convenient. So yes, we work with the sound department a lot.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Okay, that's very cool. Because I know sometimes on on films, like it's they'll try and avoid it or have booms or whatever it is, but I just think it's very creative, another creative outlet that that you have. So we asked our lovely casting network's Instagram followers for some questions, and I had so many for you that I'm just gonna squeeze in one. I'm sorry, everybody. This question is from at just Linton. They asked, What aspects of any of these costumes do you feel yourself in?

SPEAKER_03 50:26

That is a beautiful question. I think that is such a beautiful question. And I don't really know how to how to answer it. I think I am in all of them, really. I am because I I felt so deeply connected to the text and to Chloe and to to our characters that I think I am truly in all of them. And because I painted the you know, the Globe costumes myself, um, at least most of them, it's you know, my my handiwork is there, my dirty hands are are in there. So yeah, I think all of more in this than in any other film that I've designed.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Well, you mentioned the text, you know, and I'm wondering full circle here, from reading and falling in love with the book to now having this beautiful finished product on film. Is there one character or costume or something you envisioned while reading it that you think has landed its way on screen?

SPEAKER_03 51:21

I think it was Aneas. I think Aneas was, you know, even though she changed quite a lot because, you know, the first time we see her in the um in the book, when Will sees her for the first time, she is wearing men's clothing. So that was a big switch. Whereas here she is just absolutely 100% who she is. And I think for us in the movie, it worked better. But her essence, I think, is was so strong. And it remained, you know, remained that exact essence throughout throughout the movie. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Okay. Well, speaking of essences, as we wrap up Hamnet here for a bit, although I loved it so much, waiting for the sequel, JK, I don't think there should be a sequel. You've you've worked with extraordinary actors, obviously like Jesse and Paul and and everyone we've just been speaking of. Nicole Kidman, I mean, is in there, the cast of Stranger Things. If I look at your whole career, what qualities or essences do you think great ones like these have in common? Have you noticed something amongst actors that you value?

SPEAKER_03 52:18

Yeah, I think it's it's being open to the process and also not putting your own vanity into play and kind of putting that aside. That has been incredibly, I feel incredibly, incredibly lucky that these, you know, stunning performers all don't care about the way, you know, they look pretty or not pretty. They care about being correct for the character. And so that that is something that, you know, you just kind of channel the character rather than think about the the vanity side of things. And so, and that is something that is really just really beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Yeah. And I know it's an art sort of to making it the giving it that messy look and those textures, but do you ever have actors sort of help you run in the mud and get these things done themselves?

SPEAKER_03 53:09

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Okay. Well, I would be very mad at myself, and please, you don't have to indulge me, but if I didn't ask you one question about Stranger Things, because I'm a big Stranger Things fan. Can I? Do you mind?

SPEAKER_03 53:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Is there another episode coming? No, I'm just kidding. I'm not gonna ask you that. That'll be, you know. Season one. Okay, so that was a very different show from what I hear, because there was not really a budget. But is there a favorite design Easter egg, going back to those secrets from that show that you think fans would appreciate? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

So there's um Lucas's character had there was a moment where everyone was gearing up and we saw this first time he put on his bandana and he had the little um the little uh military tool belt. Uh, and I found this tool belt in Utah in an antique shop. And when I turned it inside out, it said Lucas inside it. What? And so when I brought it over, everyone was like, Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

That's wild. Meant to be.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Yes, this is meant to be.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Wow. Have you had more moments like that? I guess where you find these items and then the stories come out or it relates to the story somehow, or someone emails you and is like, oh, I saw my little egg perfume thing in Hamnet. No, I don't know. But anything like that?

SPEAKER_03 54:26

I nothing that I'm sure it has happened, but nothing comes to mind right now. But this one was like, everyone just got chilled. You know, I just remember face Caleb's face, going like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

That is that is so cool. And I just think you are so cool. I admire you so much. And before we kind of wrap up our time together, we always like to end with a gotten or a given. So the best piece of advice you have either gotten or that you have to give for people in this crazy Wild West industry.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

I truly, I will repeat the Sandy Powell, you know, which is not an advice that she gave me, but I took it as an advice. Yeah. A piece of advice is to reach out to people and let them know how you feel about their work. And if you feel strongly about someone, just let them know that that they they touched you. And I a hundred percent also think that you should give compliments to people. If you see someone who's wearing, you know, looking particularly cool, let them know. That might change their I think that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

Kindness. I never give compliments. No, I I haven't given 87,000 to you, and I'm not gonna give you one more right here when I just say in that same vein. I admire your work so much, and I was blown away by this film aesthetically, the storytelling that you achieved, and I think it's changed, but I do think to some extent a lot of people don't realize that costume design is one of, if not the hardest, jobs sometimes on a film set, because in this world of AI and technology, it's really one of the last handmade things we have left.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Thank you for saying that. And today is our our Costume Designers Guild celebration. So I am so, so excited to get to celebrate my colleagues and friends. And uh and yeah, we I feel like we have such a beautiful community here. And it is, you know, uh what is the the phrase, tide raises all boats. So we we have been supporting each other and sharing, and and we are we are stronger, stronger together. And so I I cannot wait to see everyone.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Well, I love that. I wish you the best of luck tonight on all the awards. I mean, there's just a few to name. Congratulations. And thank you for this time helping me heal a little bit with Hamnet. And uh the next time we talk, I'm just gonna call you and say, What do I wear for this audition? Can you help me break this down? Just kidding. I'm not no, I'm not I'm not gonna do that. No, but thank you so much, Molgoja.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

Love you a fantastic day.