How We Role: A Podcast for Actors by Casting Networks

What Great Actors Do Before Even Saying a Word: CD Tiffany Little Canfield (The Tesley Office)

• Casting Networks • Season 2 • Episode 34

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Casting Director Tiffany Little Canfield of the prestigious Telsey Office has helped cast everything from the Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo-led WICKED films to Ryan Murphy’s chilling Netflix anthology MONSTER. She joins host and actor Robert Peterpaul to unpack what casting directors actually respond to— and why the best auditions stop trying to be “right” and start telling the story.

In this interview for actors, you’ll learn:

• Common trends she sees in stars from Ariana Grande to Anne Hathaway 
• Why breakdowns and slates aren't necessarily for actors and should be taken with a grain of salt
• How you can make strong choices (and what that means) from the first frame
• Why technical self-tape perfection isn't what Casting is really looking for
• Unpacking the psychology of "small roles"
• Whether social media plays a part in the casting process
• What great creative partnerships look like

TIFFANY LITTLE CANFIELD, CSA, is a casting director for theater, film, opera, television and commercials at one of the nation’s busiest casting offices, The Telsey Office.  Her team's recent film projects include “Wicked: For Good,” “Wicked, Part One,” “The Idea of You” and the upcoming “Verity,” starring Anne Hathaway, Dakota Johnson and Josh Hartnett.  Some of Little Canfield’s recent television projects include “Paradise,” “Monster: The Eric and Lyle Menendez Story” and “Monster: Ed Gein,” “Only Murders in the Building” and “The Beauty.” She has been honored with many Emmy nominations for her television work.  Little Canfield was honored with the Casting Society of America’s Media Access Award for promoting awareness, accessibility and accurate depictions of people with disabilities.  She and Bernard Telsey, founder of The Telsey Office, also won the Robert Altman Spirit Award for their work on the film “Margin Call.”  An opera lover, she cast Baz Luhrmann’s production of Puccini’s “La Boheme” (Broadway and Los Angeles companies) and “Anna Nicole the Opera” at the Brooklyn Academy of Music.  Little Canfield is a proud alumna of the University of North Carolina School of the Arts’ Drama program.

This is - How We Role. Discover fresh casting calls at castingnetworks.com.

Follow Host, Actor and Producer Robert Peterpaul (Amazon's Sitting in Bars with Cake, The Art of Kindness podcast) on Instagram @robpeterpaul and learn more at robertpeterpaul.com.


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SPEAKER_02

Hi, I'm Tiffany Little Campfield, and we're listening to How We Roll.

SPEAKER_00

When it comes to working in entertainment, there's a lot of hows, and they all boil down to how we navigate this wild industry. While how we follow our dreams is uncertain, how we roll along the way is in our hands. Welcome to How We Roll, a podcast for actors by casting networks. Hello,

Welcome And Meet Tiffany

SPEAKER_00

fellow actors. It's your friend Robert Peter Paul here to answer more hows on rolling through the wonderful world of entertainment. Speaking of hows, I have one here. How do you interview someone who's touched on so many projects that you love? Well, I guess as Nike says, you just do it. Joining me at the mic today is one of the biggest names in casting, the terrific Tiffany Little Canfield. Tiffany Little Canfield is a casting director for theater, film, opera, television, and commercials at one of the nation's casting power plants, the Telsi Office. You may have heard of her team's recent film projects, from The Wicked Movies to more recently, Verity starring Ann Hathaway and Dakota Johnson, all the way to Disney's live-action adaptation of Moana. Canfield's television credits are just as exciting, including hits like Only Murders in the Building, This Is Us, and Just Like That, to name a few. Not to mention my new favorite show, Paradise, which I did pick her brain about. She comes to us as her current work on Ryan Murphy's Monster, the Ed Dean story, is being buzzed about all over town. She has been honored with many nominations, and the Casting Society of America's Media Access Award for promoting awareness, accessibility, and accurate depictions of people with disabilities. Little Canfield is a proud alumna of the University of North Carolina School of the Arts drama program. Tiffany and I touch on so many of her iconic projects and collaborators, I didn't even know where to start. She has really phenomenal, tangible advice on so many things that we come across as actors, most likely because she started thinking she would be an actor herself. From why breakdowns may not matter as much as we think to how she's not in the business of casting a good self-tape. This is one of those conversations that's truly gonna stick with me and change me for good. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Thank you all for submitting questions on social media at casting networks and at Rob PeterPall. Please continue to submit your hows. It's so much fun when I get to shout you out on the show and get your questions answered because that's really the point of this podcast. Thank you for doing that and thank you for being here. Now here's how we roll with the acclaimed casting director, Tiffany Little Canfield. We're rolling. Tiffany, welcome to How We Roll. It's such a pleasure to meet you. Pleasure to meet you too. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02

I am good. I'm excited. Can't complain. The weather's beautiful. It's California.

SPEAKER_00

Lucky you. Although I gotta say, East Coast is pretty beautiful today, too. We're meeting on a beautiful day. It's sunny. Maybe it's just so bright because you're here and you got all these things to celebrate from monster to wicked. I mean, I look at your career and I'm paralyzed with questions. I could just keep going on. I'm truly such a big fan of your work. And overall, just the way you always serve the story. I think it's super special. So I can't wait to pick your brain today. And I feel like when people say, who would you want at a dinner party? You're a great answer, Tiffany. I feel like you'd be a really great guest because of this journey. So whip out the silverware. Here we go. Before we dive into Monster and more, we always like to start with one question, which is I know you started out as an actor, but what was your first paid gig in this industry?

SPEAKER_02

My first paid gig was actually casting, working in casting on La Bohème. It was Baz Lerman's production of Puccini's La Bohème on Broadway.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. That must have been wild. He's such a character.

SPEAKER_02

It was fantastic. I thought it's not going to get better than this. And then I've just been really, really lucky and blessed in my career. I don't know if anything's been better, but I definitely had things that are, you know, you know, in the same vein.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. You know what? I think better and best,

First Gig And Switching Paths

SPEAKER_00

like when you say best friend, it's almost a category, right? It's not necessarily that it's just one. So I think you've probably had a lot under that umbrella. I wonder for folks listening that maybe are realizing they love being in this industry, they love acting, but they have a similar thought process to you in that, okay, maybe I'm better, better in the casting department. What's your advice to those folks listening on maybe transitioning?

SPEAKER_02

I think that, you know, like everything in the arts, it's uh challenging, you know, and I think it's it's also one of those things when you think about it where when we talk about trends in the industry, it's important to remember that similar to a costume designer or uh a production designer or, you know, a director or writer, or not writers really in television, but um, you know, we can have a show that has 60 actors or something, but there's one casting director, potentially too. Right. So I would just say that I would immerse myself and try to watch everything. I would try to go see every play that's possible to see in my, you know, hometown. I would try to immerse myself in just the talent pool wherever you are, like learn who they are, see what they're doing. I mean, obviously, if you're in New York or Los Angeles or London, that's quite a huge um pool. So you definitely want to, you know, kind of check out just, you know, be sure to go to independent film, you know, that has shot in one of those, you know, as well as plays, obviously happening um off Broadway as well, um, especially probably, because then you're gonna see the real like working actors who live there and are um the community and become part of the community. I think that that's really important is to um immerse yourself in where you want to be, right? And try to get as close to it as you can and learn about it and kind of observe for a while and really see like how does this go down. And I have to plug it, but um the casting society, which is our professional um, you know, it's not a union, but it's our professional group. Um, they have a training program and a mentorship program. So I would run straight towards that.

SPEAKER_00

That's such great advice. And I will say, whenever I was privileged, more so pre-Panini, to go into the Telsi office, y'all are very community driven. You sort of have a community vibe in your office, which is super special. And looking at your career again, it's like you're consistently a part of a lot of the same teams and communities. And so it's so special. I wonder having the actor still in your brain, what do you think is a skill you learned as an actor that helps you the most now that you're on the other side of the table?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, scene study, text work, use it every day. Um, I feel like it was a strength I had when I was in, you know, acting school. I didn't try to be a professional actor. I was in school, you know, at conservatory when I was like, you know, I'm sitting down at the table reading and looking around and going, this isn't gonna be good. Because of fasting. Yeah, because I wouldn't be looking around going, like, you know, Mrs. Keller's the same age as Mr. Keller, but I think in the story, she's supposed to be his second wife and the same age as his son. So what's gonna happen to those scenes? You know, that kind of a thing. Um I'm playing like an offstage voice. Um, I'm just still having those thoughts, right? So I was in school and I realized, like, I don't know that I'm gonna have enough control as in the role of an actor to like make help make something good as I want it. You know, you don't kind of have to stay in your lane when you're um an actor and focus on your work. You don't really give notes to the other actors, right? Or go to the director and say, think uh you have me entering on a punchline, you know, stuff like that. You gotta just kind of suck it up, say yes and do your best in the circumstances. And t-shirt. People know that that was really gonna be my life.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Suck it up, say yes, and do your best. That's a tattoo. That's a I'm gonna put that somewhere. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

But I um so I think that that has served me throughout my career. Um, and definitely, you know, when I transitioned to school to be a director, that's obviously huge, is really um trying to get into the mind of the writer and that story and what they're trying to tell. And I feel like that's that's a skill I use every day.

SPEAKER_00

Beautifully said. Well, doing a little bit of a deep dive, I did see that you popped in some films like Rachel Getting Married, I believe. What was it like then years later? I'm sorry, and this can just be one example of then working with Anne Hathaway as a casting director on multiple projects.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I was on the casting team for that. So what happened on Rachel getting married was I was not pursuing acting. We did auditions and I read with the actors. And so we had done a really big day of, you know, kind of mixing and matching and reading. It was phenomenal. I that's where we really got our cast together, which was super exciting. You know, Sebastian Stan, Quincy Tyler Bernstein, very exciting to me. And then Jonathan called me and was like, I can't get over your work you did when you were working with the actors. I want you to be in the movie. So that's what happened there. So cool. That's like I was cool, but it was also, it was really the day. Because you know, when you go to acting school and you transition, all your friends who knew you as an actor are like, aren't you gonna act again? Or don't you really want to be an actor? And you're like giving up on that. And I'm like, uh, no, you know what I do. And that day was like the biggest day to test that confidence I had in my decision. Because when Jonathan called and said, I want to put you in the movie, I said to him, I do not want to take one of those photos of the actors that we've pinned for these roles down and put myself up there. I'm so proud of everyone we've got in this cast to down to one line. Like, I really don't want to replace anyone with myself. I'm so proud of the work that we did today. And then he said, Well, I'll add you to a scene. I was like, okay, well, there you go. But I I was, and it was true. Like, I was more proud that we were able to help him see the brilliance of someone like, you know, Quincy Tyler Bernstein than for me to be in it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, so that really, really, because you always think, no, I'm really enjoying this. I'm so much happier than when I was pursuing acting. But when you get actually offered something and then you're like, no, I'm more proud and more fulfilled by the work we did today in the casting room than, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Then you know you're in the right.

SPEAKER_02

Then it's hard to say no, right?

SPEAKER_00

That's true. It's like it's like the Disney movie, Enchanted. It's like, that's how you know. Well, I wonder then, I was at the Ardios the year the idea of you won achievement in casting. And I remember Bernie saying how generous Anne was in the casting process to read with every actor. And since then, and before, I mean, you've worked with Ariana Grande, obviously, the past few years, just to name one, Michelle Williams, Martin Short, and then of course Charlie in Monster. Is that something you've noticed about actors at the top of their game, quote unquote, like a generous spirit or an openness?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I really think that recognizing that whether you're the lead or you're in a supporting role, you're joining an ensemble of storytellers to tell this story. And I think that people who really understand how to enter into a space like that, ready to give and, you know, and hold each other up, you know, that's what an ensemble does, is they hold each other up and support each other. And so I feel like that is a through line of a great actor.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But beautifully said. In researching your journey again, you know, hearing about you taking this chance, I was saying before we started recording and starting the Telsey LA office to be closer to your family, it it really moved me because I feel like it can be so hard to balance family life with your dreams. And they're both dreams, right? I just truly admire how you made that happen. And I think actors listening and just creatives in general can take a lot from you doing that. I mean, what was it like to make that leap?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it was really scary. I have to be honest, it was not my decision. It was my family wanting that to happen. And um I like to joke that, you know, I had a really good life in New York. I was a Tony Boater. I was a Lordel nominator, so I saw everything, you know, for free. So that was incredible. Um, you know, that was hard on my family because I'd be out to the theater four nights a week, you know, with little babies at home and stuff. And so um, when we moved out there, I really was trying to just justify my salary for at least six months, right? That was sort of, I didn't know if it would work. I'd read an article about people who split the time between Northern California and working in Southern California. So I was gonna try to model it after that. And I was really, really scared. And there was this sort of plan that I would do musical theater generals during the week and do generals so that everyone just be aware that we'd opened an LA office. But the week before I left, I got so lucky. Um Amy Britt at Showtime called Bernie and said, We want you and Tiffany to meet for this um new show to do the New York casting. And Bernie said, Well, Tiffany's about to move to LA and say, Oh, well, she should meet and just do the show. And so it was amazing that that could happen in that timing. So I actually dumped the kids and the fam, you know, and then went down, found a place to, you know, to live and started, I'm dying up here, a pilot. I did that uh, you know, we got two seasons. I'm really proud of that show. And it was really a trial by fire. Like, will this work? And I think the musical theater department of Telsey is like, remember that dream like you're doing the generals all the time.

SPEAKER_00

That's so funny because I thought you meant in moving from New York to LA, you're like, now I'm dying here. I love LA. I'm dying up here. You were talking about a pilot, though. I'm dying up here. Yes, I'm dying up here. I was like, okay, she loves it. That's great. So diving a little bit deeper into the actor casting collaboration in the audition process, most of all, feel free to use examples from Monster here. For actors, it generally starts with the breakdown, right? And a lot of folks, I think, don't realize, which you openly talk about, how casting most of the time works with writers on the breakdown, I guess when that's possible. What does that collaboration look like? And do you think actors should not feel afraid to sort of stray from the breakdown, if that

Why Breakdowns Mislead Actors

SPEAKER_00

makes sense? Because I think we can cling on to keep it.

SPEAKER_02

And then also we are trying to kind of give a taste of the direction we're leaning for this role and describe some qualities we're looking for in the storytelling. So I think that I wouldn't say it's like don't be afraid to stray from it, but I think that instead don't focus too much on that breakdown description. Focus on the text you've been given and use your text analysis because the breakdown is general on purpose. And I think that because we want to be inclusive. So we're not always necessarily like describing exactly because we want to be open to creative interpretation for us, for the actor, for the writers, for the director, for everyone, right? Yeah. We want to be more inclusive than not. So I think what happens is actors are looking for any clues to how to get it right. And so they really wed themselves to that breakdown. And I'm sort of think, well, the breakdown is really for the agents, you know, to understand who to submit. It's not actually like, I'd take it with a grain of salt, honestly.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. That's a great d distinction. No, no one said that. I really appreciate that. Because we do get a lot of actors asking, you know, we have people submit questions and people do ask if I get an audition with a breakdown that I don't feel connected to or I feel like I'm not going to do a good job, you know, I'm nervous to even audition. And I know a lot of the time the advice is to just show up and do it because you never know.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's the thing is it will sometimes you'll have. I remember this story from a film I did uh with John Requa and Glenn Ficara, where it said blonde bartender. And it was like any gender, any age, no real, you know, it was one or two lines. And I said, okay, anything you specifically want for the blonde bartender? Is it like a pool, you know, it seems like it's at a hotel? Is it like the pool bartender? You know, is this like someone wearing a, you know, uh cover-up, delivering, you know, pool drinks, or is this, you know, somewhere else? Like what's the vibe of it? And they said, could be anything, doesn't have to be blonde. But do you know how many actors walk in? Because and they were just, there were a lot of bartenders in this movie. So they were just, I think, literally differentiating it so it was a different name for the day-to-day, so production could keep clear which scene was this particular bartender in. And meanwhile, I have actors coming in like, I'm not blonde, why am I here? And they're just like, it doesn't matter. You know, they weren't gonna reissue a new draft of the script where they take out the word blonde. Like it didn't matter. But yet, so many actors, I think the challenge when you're an actor is you know, the first thing you really think when you get an audition is, do I have a chance of getting this? Can I get this? And that breakdown is the first part where if you don't see yourself reflected in it, you think you're not right for it. But you have to remember the writer doesn't know you. Yeah. The writer doesn't know you. So of course you may not see yourself reflected in it because they're not describing you. Right? They're describing the character, and then you I just just read it, but jump, don't make any decisions, don't take on any neuroti because it trust me, your brain, the way uh we all work, especially when we're really wanting something, is we look for what why I'm not gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01

Right?

SPEAKER_02

Because we want to protect ourselves, we want to protect our emotional uh connection to it. And I totally get that, but I'm also like, are you gonna pass? No, you're not. So just open up the scene and read it and put yourself into the scene and don't worry that it said blonde or it had a certain age or something, unless it's like the character clearly needs to be a certain age in order to, you know, like if you're about 32 and you're still going out for college age parts and you read it and it's all about a college kid who gets carded and then, you know, can't get into the bar, and you're kind of looking at yourself in the mirror and you're thinking, I don't know if that's gonna be the story. That's a reasonable one, but I think people go way deeper where it's sort of like, Yes. I'm not being described personally in this breakdown, so I'm not potentially right for this.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate that. Yeah, I think the way you said that is very simple and digestible, which is awesome for people listening. You know, when you're between two actors, I've heard you say, and I mean it all always does hark back to the story. What ultimately helps you make the choice is then going back to the text. And I think that advice can also apply to actors maybe stuck in an audition, right? We always hear make a choice, make a big choice. And I think the meaning of that is even a little different for people.

SPEAKER_02

So definitely is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. Like I think even just that simple phrase can get people spiraling. So for auditions or scene work, is that what you would say? Just go back to the text and don't get bogged down in anything else.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Go deeper. You explore, use your imagination. You know, I think a fun little trick to just break out, especially if you get in your head about it, is you know, find someone and have them read your part and you read the other parts. Stuff like that. Just some kind of way to unlock your brain to keep your yourself going deeper and reinvestigating it.

SPEAKER_00

I think the trying on different hats is so special too. That's why I love casting directors that were actors. Charlie in Monster, of course, is also a screenwriter. So I wonder if like that probably fed into his process, like you were just describing, of even breaking down the scenes. In looking at, I guess, self-tapes still, while we're sort of in the audition circuit here, what do you all the all the questions kind of boil down to that I'm sure you get are like, what do you look for? But in the first 10 seconds or so, what kind of lets you know that an actor understands the tone, especially with a Ryan Murphy show, which has a very specific sort of flavor.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, how can I even answer that question? There's no answer to that. This is the problem with acting. Everyone's like, So what are you looking for? I'm like good acting. So what do I from the tone?

First Impressions And Self Tape Truth

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. It depends which one. I work on a lot of projects with Ryan and they're very different tonally. So again, it's the script. It's really about what do you think it's gonna look like? You know, look at it from what do you think it's gonna look like? What do you think the character, like what is the first impression? If when you read this and this character walks into a room, what do you think people other people think about? Like, do they see? Um I think when you say I'm only saying that because you're saying the first 10 seconds, and I'm saying, well, that's the first impression we're getting as casting, and also the director and writers, if they're you know included in watching, and then the studio, everyone, everyone has a first impression as soon as that frame you. You know, from a tape opens up. What story is being told? Is there any story, or are you what I call scooping into it? Meaning like you've identified later in the scene one emotional turn. And so you're just kind of like earnest until we get to that. And I'm like, but you haven't really made any decisions. Not just earnest.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right? Like, who is this person? Do they have an air of authority? Do they, when they walked started the scene, did you get a sense like everyone's listening or concerned about something they might say? Or do they don't listen to them because they seem like a clown, you know? Or what is the other people's impression? And how can you make that impression from the first frame?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Understanding that. No, I I love that. I know again, all these questions, a lot of the ones we get that I appreciate so much, are sort of you have to dance around it a little bit because it is so subjective and it's kind of like that intangible, well, when you know, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and you have to remember that they don't know you. Yeah. So you get to control your first impression of what you see. And that's why I think it's really smart when people do make very strong choices in the beginning that really like set, like we understand immediately that this person gets what we're doing here. Like they're kind of collaborating with us because we are looking for collaborators. Actors are collaborators and they are part of the ensemble of the storytelling team. And so we need storytellers. And sometimes I feel like actors are more trying to like answer a quiz, a quiz, and they have not like committed to an idea of the character.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, in that same vein of sort of obviously it's commitment to the character and the story, but do you see people bending the virtual medium a little bit? I think a lot of us can get sort of stuck. What does that mean? Like, you know, we can get stuck in backdrop and ring light land.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, who cares about that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What like do you do you see people? I mean, I know I think it was Jonathan Bailey and Wicked. I mean, he's Jonathan Bailey, but he did like a cell phone tape or something.

SPEAKER_02

Like I know you see those, but he was backstage of his show. That's did that. Right. Well, because we were begging for it and he was doing the play, and I think that he just was like, God, I gotta get this done, and uh I have five minutes. We did it, which actually just happened to be so Fiera. Like the fact he's so cheeky and he's not overthinking it. He seems like, well, dash this off and send it in. That's what Fiero would do, right? Especially at the beginning. Fiero is is shallow. He says that, you know, he's been kicked out of schools. I mean, do you know how many people might have how many things went are technically wrong in that audition, right? Singing to the soundtrack, not to a track. He kind of openly talks about these switch keys. You can hear, there's no backdrop. You can literally hear the stage manager calling places during it, which he acknowledges in the tape. Like there's so much things that any teacher would tell you don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. But at the end of the day, what I'm looking is for is someone who has that, those qualities that Fiero has. And I could tell he had a really good voice, regardless if he changed keys. I could tell his voice is good. I can tell he's can can really pull off a devil may care attitude. I mean, that was sort of entrenched in the self-tape, was a double may care attitude. It was very right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But from a character standpoint, not from a good self-tape. But you know what? I'm not in the business of casting? Good self-tapes.

SPEAKER_00

There you go. I love that. Have you been able to get back into having more in person now, or is it? Oh, that's great. That's awesome. I know people at least will offer the virtual Zoom a lot of the time, which is really cool. You know, you've even mentioned technical things, not to get too bogged down on the self-tape, but just you saying, even like, unless it's maybe a big musical, whatever it is, I don't need to see below your chest or even like, you know, the Warner Brothers haircut, whatever. Like, I just need to see your eyes. And I think being that close to the camera is such a great reminder. And it just makes me wonder do you have any other like little tangible tips like that for for obvious?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I need to see your face. There's got to be light on your face. That's the most important thing so that your eyes have some reflection, right? So it's not just dark. You know, I always say this when I'm talking to actors. I'm like, how much can you get from me like this? Like, this is not as good as this, right? This is now you can see me. We can actually connect virtually if we're like this. Um, but that being said, we do need the the full slate so that we get a sense of, you know, what you look like. And you know who's the person who asks for that the most? Costume department. It's really a logistics thing. It's not, it's it's something that is a given when we're in person that you're gonna walk in the room and we're gonna see what you look like. But we can't do that in uh, you know, when we just have the scenes and the scenes are shot the way we hope. So that's why we do need that one full-length shot. But I don't mind if it's like a picture or however you get it. If it's outside and you're editing it, I don't care. Again, purely the slate is purely to uh see what you look like. And um, like imagine walking in the room. That's the slate.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Not overthinking, man. Please, it's not we don't cast the slate.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I do think for some people, walk walking into the room as themselves can be very hard. You know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. No, it's really auditioning is hard, guys. It's the arts.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But we're easy, you know. I mean, that's what I hate to say it. Like we're seeking excellence. I feel like a lot of times we're so lucky in our profession of um, you know, storytelling with television and film, especially, that there's a commercial side to our to our art form. I feel like because of that, and because when you're really good at it, it just sort of looks like behaving. You know, I doubt that there's as quite as many people who see a movie and say, I want to be an actor, I'm gonna move to LA without any training or acting lessons or anything. How many people you think go to the Philharmonic and are like, tomorrow I'm booking an audition tour through Europe, I'm gonna play the cello?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But that's what we do. It's an a craft and an art form. So you've really got to invest in it. It's not gonna be easy. It's gonna be hard. It's never been easy to be an artist unless you're able to make your own art, right? And you can afford to do that. Like that's but making a living as an artist has really never been, I think, in the top five most suggested uh careers that parents made in. Yeah, I don't I don't think so. I don't know about that. Well, I know my parents told me I was choosing homelessness by going to drama school. Oh no. Didn't work out that way. Proved them wrong.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there you go. Okay, that's good. Well, you know what? It's it's true. We don't all have that support, but I do think a lot of casting directors are the supportive champions to have a clunky transition here. And one thing you talk about a lot is the power of stillness. And I just want to be still for a moment and talk about that because I think casting directors are really good. I mean, it it's even vulnerable to do what you do, right? To sit behind a table in power and sit in a silent moment or see somebody messing up and be there. Like there's a lot of vulnerability there on both sides. And so I don't know. I would just love to hear you talk about tapping into the power of stillness in an audition setting and not letting it be sort of underpowered by stillness,

Presence Beats Indicating

SPEAKER_00

if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna try. I feel like we're kind of talking about two different things and and what is the definition of stillness in this context.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I would probably change the word stillness and and make it being present.

SPEAKER_00

Present.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and focused on the work we're doing. Because I feel like the extraneous movement or um distracting movements is a cover, right? We don't have a foundation, a plan of what we're gonna do. So we're sort of swimming, you know, if we're gonna use, you know, words that are not uh literal. Um we're still a metaphor. Or maybe we're indicating because we don't trust that our work is clear. So we start to indicate, um, sometimes, you know, in a way that can be unnecessary. And so therefore it's sort of in place of great acting is sort of indicating, like I know what the scene, I want you to know I know what the scene is supposed to be, but I haven't necessarily done the work to be in it. So I'm going to indicate to you that I know what we're supposed to be doing here. And I'm okay, but that's not really what we're looking for. So, you know, I would rather, that's why I say sometimes, you know, a strong wrong can be more successful than something uh general, because a strong wrong might be wrong in terms of what the scene's intention is, but I but you're fully committed, right? You made a choice. And so I see you as the type of actor you are. And then it's very easy for me to say, you know, it looks like you're playing it this way. Now imagine you can't let everyone see that, right? Like because there are people, you know, in the scene who you're afraid of. So, you know, that's what's happening internally, but don't show us that or whatever it is. Maybe it's just a full redirect. I'm like, this isn't your sister you're talking to, or whatever. Yeah, it was wrong. But the commitment is what I see. Um, and the choices, you know, the the depth of the ideas, because I know what's in the script. So I know what they're bringing, right? Yeah. I know what they're bringing that might be original, unique, um, and special. And otherwise, sometimes it just sort of feels like we're reading it together. And I'm sort of like good night. Me? Yeah. You know, you're really in danger if that's the level of prep you've done to get by someone who comes in and blows our socks off.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, speaking of perfect transition to Charlie in Monster, moving into that a little bit, which Ed is almost a mythic character in pop culture, right? And I I mean, from what I read, Charlie had this meeting with we wish he was mythic on some level. Well, true. I mean, the the show plays with that, right? With Alfred Hitchcock and sort of like what the media makes mythic in a way. And so he had this meeting with Ryan and then he signed on. Then maybe he second guessed it, he said, but was he involved in the audition process as far as you all rounding out the cast?

Casting Monster And Finding Humanity

SPEAKER_00

Did you know, you know, he was in mind?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. No, we knew it was going to be him. And I think it's kind of for me, it felt like such a good fit because of um one, I think he has a strong physical resemblance. You know, like he is certainly a handsomer version, but if you actually look at the pictures and can imagine him um in a modern setting, I think that there is uh like a connection. And also he's he's really scary, but he's also really vulnerable. And I feel like Charlie has um real danger. Like he has access to real danger and strength and can be quite intimidating, you know, in his previous work. And so I think the fun part was gonna be to find the humanity in this character. And you knew that um the strength and that this person could, you know, physically do what this person did and also just walk into the room with that danger, right? You want to feel off put, you know, you wanna he's scary and we don't understand him, right? We don't understand why someone would do what Ed Ging did. And I think the magic of what Charlie did is to really explore what could what kind of person could be capable of, what might have happened to them, what what um their personal insecurities, you know, their their blind spots, right? Which I think we really see with Charlie's performance is is uh naivete almost, um, which I think is what makes the performance so surprising and astounding, is that I think Charlie, we think of him as a real leading man, you know, like a very strong, like maybe even leaning towards kind of action and intensity. And then to see the vulnerability and naivete that he brought to this character, that he's just a person looking for love and trying to do right, which is the ironic part.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's like the central question of wicked, right? Do we are we born wicked or do we have wickedness thrust upon us? You know, do you get scared when you're working on projects like this? I know that's sort of a sillier question, but I'm curious.

SPEAKER_02

When I watch it, I get more scared. Um not really. I really like um the horror genre, and I'm so happy to be getting a chance to to work in it with monsters. So no, I don't. Yeah. Okay. You're happy to describe the scene to the actor that they, you know, for making sometimes agent says, their question is what happens to them? And I'm like, Well they don't have to be there at that part. Okay. We'll do a body cast.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I can't even. Yeah. Well, let's let's dive deeper into all those actors. I mean, Lori Metcalf, Leslie Manville, who I just saw on Broadway, oh my did you see Oedipus? Yes, of course. Wasn't it great? Oh my gosh. She could do anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

She could do anything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm sure that'll hopefully that comes to the screen. It sounds like an awards nominee list in itself. So when you're kind of casting folks like this who can play and go toe-to-toe with stars of this level, and the same really goes for all most of your projects, right? What's the casting process like with the day players sort of coming in, the co-stars, you know? Because you could be a great actor, but sort of acting opposite a giant like that, you might be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02

We definitely, we definitely take into play who's in the scene with them and um what tone we want to set and level we want to set. And so often if it's even if it's just a day or two, if the part really has some, you know, turn to it, you know, I do spend a lot of time on the phone with agents, with actors that I like deeply, deeply admire and um, you know, try to pitch them on it, on that, even though it's a small part and, you know, not obviously totally worthy of their talents in in terms of what they're capable of. I do try to encourage them to consider the project because of who they'll be working with. Because I think at the end of the day, really wonderful artists, like we want to work with people who are great, right? We want to work with an ensemble of people that we just are like, holy moly. Maybe people we didn't know, but when they start acting, you're just like, how are they so great? You know, how do I not know this actor? They're so wonderful. So, you know, we luckily in casting know actors that maybe we've seen on stage, that maybe haven't had a big TV and film career. So they're not famous, but they are really respected and well known by directors and writers and um casting directors, maybe not even other actors, right? And then unless they've had the opportunity to work with them already. So we're looking for those kinds of actors that we think will be um they are at the level, even though they might not be as famous. They're ready to show up and play. They are a fully formed, brilliant artist in their own right. And we want to populate the project with all the actors. Like, I don't think we think about co-stars and day players the same way that actors do. I think actors think it's like a certain level of actor, but we don't look at that. We look at the scene and go, what does the scene require? And I will definitely try to convince someone great to come and play for a day rather than um, you know, put someone in who is not ready for or what, you know. And it's not just like, oh, I don't want the person to freak out or break under pressure. It truly is this is the requirement of being and who is the best actor for that role.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I no, I get that. True. I mean, they're all serving the story. Do you feel like the co-stars are tricky? Because a lot of us actors think those are the hardest to audition for, where you have maybe one or two lines and it's sort of like, you know.

SPEAKER_02

I think there's a lot of psychology that goes into co-star auditioning. First of which is let's go there. Like, say in Los Angeles, it's not what your dream is to be doing, right? You, you know, and maybe your roommate had an audition for one of the big parts. So you've got some kind of psychology surrounding, how do I get from this kind of part to a bigger part? Um, so you've got already that kind of psychology, I think, going on. And so then when you're looking at it, I do think there's sometimes a block of negativity about this part doesn't have anything to do. And when you take for granted, because of the amount of lines, that it's not difficult or there aren't there isn't anything to do, you're blocking your creativity. And what happens is someone else comes in and sees, like, oh, this is really fun. I always use this as an example because it's a recent show I did. I worked on a show called In Just Like That. And there's a scene where Carrie and Aiden are finally meeting and they're supposed to meet on Valentine's Day. There's all this pressure. Like they have not seen each other in so long. They're both potentially single. Um, the audience is waiting for this, and Carrie accidentally goes to the restaurant next door, which is empty. It's like a Greek restaurant that's empty, and there's this one waiter there. And first of all, if you're in New York City and you go to a restaurant on Valentine's Day and it's empty, that's not good. Yeah, turn around. Turn around. Get out of there, get out of there. And that actor was so funny. Like you knew exactly how his behavior and his acting, and and Michael Patrick King actually wrote, you know, me on this side was like, our actor today is so fantastic. Oh my gosh. He was so good. And there's no lines. He just understood the situation. He understood what would mind be, you know, and he, I think that that's what we need a little bit more is coming to the audition with um creativity and going, what is the same questions you ask when it's a big part? What's my first impression of who this character is? What would be funny or what would be kind of scary or off-putting?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What's the tone? You know, and that can do that. So I really do encourage actors, but I think it's hard. There's a psychology there, isn't it? Of like there is.

SPEAKER_00

That's a great word for it.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm like, well, that's not true, actually.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think part of it too is the stay in your lane of it all, right? Because you don't necessarily want to get there and feel like you're so in the circumstances that you're not distracting, but I guess it depends on the set too. It's like reading the room. So you could show up and the director could be like, ooh, try this. Actually, add a little of this there. You just don't know.

SPEAKER_02

But it's that No, but I think it's gotta be grounded in truth and it's gotta be what the script intends, right? I think that sometimes people think big choices means like going outside when there isn't, you know, a lot of material. But sometimes just being very specific and detailed and present.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Specificity. I'm surprised we haven't used that word yet. That's a great, that's a great one. You know, and speaking of the specific choice to cast somebody like Addison Ray was such a delightful surprise. I mean, that's something y'all do so well.

SPEAKER_02

Especially Well, that's Ryan Murphy. I have to say, Ryan has such a great sense of encyclopedic knowledge of pop culture and also genre and various genres. And I think that he is really, it's fun sometimes when he'll say, you know, this is, you know, that that section with the babysitter is kind of our most sort of traditional

Co Star Auditions And Unexpected Choices

SPEAKER_02

horror, right? Like, how many horrors do you have where there's like a young teenager and then she's gonna get killed by a serial killing? Like it's a it can be a trope unto itself, right? Yeah. And so it's kind of fun to have someone who is unexpected like Addison, who, you know, is so in the pop culture and pop music, and you know, that is sort of like the ultimate teenager, right? Like that is kind of like the teenage dream, you know, it's a Katie Perry song, you know, the teenage dream. Yeah. And to have her in a period piece, you know, in that role, I just think it's just so clever. But that was definitely Ryan going, who would be like, you know, him describing what could be good and then us coming up with the list of actors that might, you know, really tell that story in that way and make it kind of pop out to you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. The that contrast. And that's something y'all do so well. The contrast and the unexpectedness. Is that something you talk a lot about with Ryan? I mean, even Allspare, you know, Glenn Close and Kim Kardashian. It's like the it's so fun to see.

SPEAKER_02

Making a balance and it's it's kind of keeping you um sort of delighted, I find it. Delightful where you're like, oh, I did not expect to see that, or how fun to see this person. I thought that was Jessica Simpson, you know, in her role. Like that was someone who has been so picked over about her looks her entire life, right? Like, I mean, you know, since she was a teenager. And then to have her play a character that, you know, husbands encouraged her to get like a botch surgery. And the fact that she was so game for doing, because I think she was really, you know, in on that story. It under she understood how it was fun to her for her to be a part of because of, you know, the endless discussion of you know women being beautiful and staying beautiful and all of those kinds of things. It just really is fun to kind of.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Yeah. It is so delightful. And you know, mentioning Addison and sort of the fun that these shows have as they live on really exists on social media. And I'm just curious about your, I don't know, social media philosophy. How much do you search for talent on these platforms? Is that a part of your sort of office routine?

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell I mean, if I have something really specific, right? Like you're looking for someone, um, usually someone who is potentially unrepresented, you know, whether it's an actor with a certain disability or a certain skill set, right? You know, I've worked on many musicals where it's like a choreographer would love to find a line board, you know, longboard dancer. You know, it's not like there's the longboard dancer agency you can call. There's not all everybody between 18 and 22. No, you're going online and you're looking at those communities and reaching out to them. Um, so I would say that's the biggest use I would say of social media that I use for seeking talent. That being said, I am fed talent by the algorithm and probably what kind of videos I watch. So I'm often looking at TikTok, getting dance videos and singing videos and comedy videos. And these are all just performance. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So what's the difference between that seeing someone performing on my phone in my living room and like having to go to the Joyce in New York and see a showcase of young carriers? I would like to do both.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right? Because some people don't have access to get to the Joyce. The fun thing about social media is it has um, I I mean, we don't like think of it as democratic, but like it's almost everybody has a access to a phone. And so they can put their performances up where not everyone has access to go to like New York or LA or um or or has the time to be knocking down those doors trying to get into comedy clubs, you know, that are the big ones, you know, that you know about. They they're in littler comedy clubs, but they can have a friend video it and put it on TikTok and I could still get it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Even though that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02

No idea where they are.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

True. I mean, that's the nice thing. Yeah, we we can open up the searches, but you know, mentioning the musical of it all, I'm I'm always curious about when you get an audition and it's for something where the character in the story is performing, let's say, on a stage, and in the audition you have to sing a cut from the song. I guess it's again back to the story, but do you like to see the actor sort of working the room on a little camera, or is it like you'd rather see them processing the intention of the song? Do you know what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_02

Because it really depends on the context of the scene. If it is supposed to be like they're

Using Social Media To Find Talent

SPEAKER_02

performing, like pitch perfect or something like that. I'm just using that as an example. Yeah. It's not a book musical style like musical where it's sort of a like, I'm not really singing. This is just sort of the um, you know, I'm working through something internally, but the way it presents in this medium is I'm singing a song. You know what I mean? Like I'm acting a scene and song is different than I'm performing a number on a stage.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I guess I want whatever is it's asking you to do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think it gets hard when it's not all but it's not clear.

SPEAKER_02

It's sort of like if you don't know, do one where it's internal and then do one where it's performing.

SPEAKER_00

The two takes. I guess you don't mind like a contrasting take.

SPEAKER_02

I know every people feel like especially if it's not clear, especially if the agent goes, they weren't sure if this was like in performance mode, like he's on stage in Vegas, or whether it's he's actually in a scene and this is a musical. So we've kind of performed it in more of a scene study sort of, you know, a musical scene, and then as a performance, if he were on stage.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Thanks for clarifying that. But you operate in a lot of these repeat ecosystems, like I kind of mentioned earlier with Ryan Murphy, Dan Fogelman, you know, ABC Disney. What do you think in your brain makes a great creative partnership? What what do you love in a creative partnership?

SPEAKER_02

What do I think it's uh I would say just really open communication, you know, like open um that we can really talk and not be afraid to brainstorm together. Because I think, you know, like we always say brainstorming, there's no bad ideas, but I actually think bad ideas lead you to the good idea. Like learning why someone isn't right is as important of why this person might be right. You know, like what are the, you know, I so I feel like the um communication and the conversation. And uh for me, what I love is feeling like um I can get into their head, like they're open enough with me. They're not trying to get me to guess what they want or testing me. It's more of an actual conversation where it's like, what about this? And they can go, oh, I hate them. And I'm like, okay, great, not them. But you know, like what is it? So it's you can really just have really clear, um, funny communication. I feel like everybody you're talking about is really funny. And I think we get excited. You know, I don't think I work with a lot of people who are like, this is my job. We're gonna punch out 23 episodes and it's a formula and don't overthink it, and it's gonna be like that. I never work, everyone is super excited, super invested. You know, everyone wants to change the world one little bit at a time with this piece. And I think that that excitement is infectious.

SPEAKER_00

Another good word. That's what Charlie said, I think ultimately made him want to do the project, right? When he met with Ryan, was that he had never seen someone who was almost childlike. He said it was as if Ryan had just written his first screenplay, which obviously he hadn't. So I appreciate you putting that there. And I wonder if that applies to actors too, right? As they try to foster relationships with people over the years. And I mean, you work with a lot of the same talent over and over again. So it's sort of like that is it that openness? Is it just being a kind human that kind of that's really important?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think it's also

Creative Partnerships And Clear Communication

SPEAKER_02

just being a really like you just get inspired when you think of someone like Leslie Manville playing a part. Yeah. You know, she's just incredible. And she or Catherine Hunter I had on one of the shows with Ryan. I love her. But that kind of a thing. You know, like you get excited, like what would they do with this? Because you're such a fan, and you know they're gonna do something interesting and surprising. And, you know, sometimes I think we all have that too, where you're fans of certain people and you think, like, you know, what deadline article announced cast announcements make me the most excited? Right. I do think like sometimes where I'm like, Yeah, this is cool, but like, would I get excited to hear it? You know, like I want to get excited about what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that applies to actors too. We had a wonderful actor, Jen Lyon, on here recently. I love she. We went to college. No, you didn't. You know Jen. I know her from college. Okay. Talk about a kind, just talented human. And she said she wasn't afraid to say it. She said, you don't copy them, but if you're ever stuck in a scene about making a choice, think about an actor you admire and how how would they play the scene? And that can just help you kind of get excited, like you're saying. So yeah, I love that you say that. I've been so excited to talk to you, and I thought it'd be fun to play a surprise game that I'm calling Little Canfield Big Resume. And so listeners, since Tiffany Little has big magic when it comes to casting, I thought it'd be fun to name one of her more recent iconic projects, and she will hopefully then share one lesson from that experience that we can take away from today. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay, cool. There are so many, everybody. If you go to this CVS-like receipt of an IMDB page,

Lessons From Mary Poppins Moana Wicked

SPEAKER_00

you're gonna just black out with excitement. It's all your favorite projects, but I'm gonna just name a few. The first one, because I'm obsessed, I've since I was a kid and I played baseball, everyone's running out on the field. They're like, I wanna be Derek Jeter, I'm gonna be Bernie Williams. And I was like, I'm gonna be Mary Poppins. And my dad was like, Oh my gosh. So I gotta ask you about Mary Poppins returns. What's the what was the takeaway?

SPEAKER_02

Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, anytime Rob Marshall and John DeLuca and Mark Platt call, because there's a new project, me and Bernie are just over the moon with excitement. Um I love them so much. So that's the first thing. So I'm trying to think. And the first step was obviously casting Mary Poppins, which is funny because when we were did our first meeting, it was really clear to us. Really clear to us who it had to be. Uh obviously Emily Blunt to make that to me seemed obvious. And it's because, you know, when you think of Julie Andrews, who's an absolute icon, and then in the role is iconic as well. It's not just like, you know, she's always great, and this is a this is like her, you know, this and Maria and Sound of Music are probably, you know, the most famous performances in the history of film. And um I wanted all those qualities that she brings to it. The humor, you know, the honestly the beauty, like how she looks in that, you know, she's just so pretty. And also she's a fucking excuse me, she's a great she's a great singer. Yeah. And Emily is a great singer. And so she has such clarity of tone and um, and her humor is phenomenal, phenomenal. And she can be really wry. Because the thing is sometimes Mary Bobbins is quite, you know, stern with you, right? Like she's judging you. And when Emily does that, it's a delight, the same way it is when Julie Andrews does that. So I feel like though all those qualities added up to like, plus, we've worked with her before, and she is a dream, right? So that was the first part. And then the rest of it was really um the biggest fun part or the biggest part of casting that was fun was the kids. You know, because the kids are such a huge part of the film. And that process, you know, with kids, it's a volume game. You, you know, you you want to see all the kids. You want to see, you know, an age range of the various kids. And we had quite a young kid in it. And so that was fun, hard, but really, really fun to do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh and then really just sort of like your dreamcasting. Like, you know, for me, Colin Firth is oh my gosh, uh, so much fun. And then um you got Meryl Streep, Meryl. Lynn Streep, Lynn. Well, Lynn, that was like, ooh, this is gonna be so fun to see Lynn do this, right? Play a British character. Like we're just we know Lynn personally so well. And Lynn's projects that, you know, went in the heights and in um Hamilton. Obviously, I feel like the world knows Lynn. Who he really is. Like if you see Lynn on a show, I like he's so authentic as a human being. And so it was really fun to kind of play with that and push him into a world where you wouldn't assume you'd see Lynn.

SPEAKER_00

And I think he just killed it. Oh my gosh, yeah. So I've got to come across him a couple of times, and he's exactly that. Yeah. Well, I guess mentioning him, the next one we can pop over to would be Moana.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know what you can kind of share about that, but I have to say, Moana has been one of my favorite films to cast because of the deep dive into Polynesian culture, which I have not had the opportunity to explore. And we started off with a wonderful, I think it was like a three-hour Zoom where cultural experts hooked us up with a professor of anthropology at uh the University of Samoa. And we got to ask every question. We got to learn the histories, things that I may not even have, you know, I certainly didn't realize watching Moana, which my kids at the are the right age where I've seen Moana 75 times at least. Um, and I love it. And so that was really, really, really fun. And then, you know, the search for our cast. And we really did create a village. Um, you know, often when movies are done, you know, you do this number, you cast these dancers for this number, you cast this for this, and you do this, and people come in for a week or two, et cetera, et cetera, and shoot their bit. This really had the, you know, the villagers working and living together on, you know, doing the film for multiple weeks at time, you know, and and there was a blend of like dancers and then the actors were all part of the village. And creating that world was really, really amazing. And collaborating with um obviously Tommy Kale is our director and our choreography team, uh, Tiana is amazing, amazing. Like we just had so much fun.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm really obsessed with the Polynesian culture now. It was, it's so beautiful. Like the history of it and the and those dance calls and how people would support each other, right? We're so used to ballet where it's like someone's doing it and the people are over on the side, like, hmm, you know. Oh, yeah. This was the opposite. This was like kids were there, everyone was in the windows yelling out in support and clapping, and it was so like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love that. That's that's a great way to put it. I'm sure it was similar on Wicked, which I loved seeing even in the you know, ensemble bits, like you said, just people that are so renowned on stage just blipping by, you said earlier, to kind of give them this platform is so incredible. I know Wicked has just been taking over everyone's feeds, and now it's it's gone. It's almost like we got used to it being social media. It's weird not to see Wicked videos anymore. But what's one lesson you will take away as a casting professional from that mega experience?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I feel like that one, you always hear you get out what you put in. But I feel like that project, I'm gonna get emotional. Um, that project, everyone leaned in. Everyone was very excited and aware of the legacy of what we were trying to do, how big a how big an undertaking it was. And I feel like we just all leaned in 100%. You know, there's stories from the set of, you know, the gaffers and crew members and PAs all leaning into the monitors, watching every take, crying, you know. And I think if you've been on film and television says that's not always the case, right? Because we've all got like various bits we're responsible for. But it really felt like everybody leaned in with everything they had. And it created a family and it was so special. And to see the audience get it, get what we were trying to do and feel it. I mean, those videos from the first one of people like my dad before Wicked, my dad after Wicked. Yeah, those kinds of things. I mean, what's better than that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It was a cultural movement. And I mean, it's the kind of thing where you created a new family, but you also brought this massive Wicked family from all the tours, all corners of the world in as well. So I can imagine that was an incredibly moving experience. It was. Okay, I gotta ask you about my new favorite show. Everybody, if you're not watching Paradise, I don't know what you're doing. You're not living in paradise. What I guess, what are you taking away from that? It is so good because I loved Lost growing up and it gives me that similar kind of vibe, but it has the this is us depth to it, makes you cry. I'm sorry, I'm I can go on about paradise.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, Dan Fogelman is very special, and what he does is so constantly surprising. Um I would not have expected a show like Paradise after This Is Us. You know, you just think people have like their thing they do. Even though when you step back and think about it, you're like, no, they don't. Like, look at it. This person created this, this, this, this, you know. Um, but that's another one. Dan really, you know, creates this family. And I feel like our cast, I got such a chance to cast some people that I've always dreamed of casting, um, like uh Julianne Nicholson, Bucketlist, Bucket List, um Chris Marshall, who also went to my same college. And when I saw her graduate, I was like, I am very interested in this one. What's she gonna do? And get to work with her. And then um Thomas Doherty in season two. So good and so surprising. Right when I got to Los Angeles, who I didn't know. And he's gotten close for me before to some things that I really, you know, loved him for and it just didn't work out for whatever reason. This one was the one. I I am so glad it was this one where where it fit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so so good. I mean, I can't wait to see where it goes. I think it's they say it's only three seasons. I don't know, I don't remember, but who knows? But I don't want it to ever end. Okay, we talked about a few of your projects. Speaking of not wanting to end, I know we got to end our time together. I would just love if you could share. We usually ask for a gotten or a given, which is a best piece of advice thing, but in just looking at how much you do, I feel like it would be conducive to ask you, how are you kind to yourself, Tiffany, with with all these things that you balance in your brain and in your life?

SPEAKER_02

I am kind myself. I've learned this about myself. I'm not someone who was really into wellness or things like that when I was younger. Um I would have said

Being Kind To Yourself

SPEAKER_02

then martinis, but now I have to say, um I love going to like the water. I call it the waters, like uh, you know, uh the hot and the cold plunge and the sauna and the steam room. That is my when I'm really starting to feel like the weight of the world. I just get a book, you know, and I know it's gonna get water on it, but and then go to the baths.

SPEAKER_00

You know what? They should make like the little kids' books for adults that are of that material so you can read it in the in the bath.

SPEAKER_02

I think you can carry one in like this, but yeah, no. I just try to have your little towel there so that your hands are dry and you're like leaning.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love that. Well, I love that you do that. I wish you many more baths and success. Seriously, I've just been so excited to talk to you. I admire you so much, and I'm grateful that we have you making stories because you're making some of the best stories out there.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much for having me, Robert.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks.

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Robert Peterpaul

Host