A Hero's Welcome Podcast
A Hero’s Welcome Podcast
Hosted by Maria Laquerre Diego, and Liliana Baylon, both LMFT-S and RPT-S
A Hero’s Welcome is a podcast for mental health professionals committed to culturally responsive care. Each episode features in-depth conversations with clinicians, supervisors, and consultants who bring diverse perspectives to the forefront.
We discuss mental health topics including psychotherapy models, clinical interventions, trauma-informed practices, and the role of cultural humility in therapeutic work. Our guests share their experiences serving children, families, and communities impacted by systemic stressors, offering insights and practical tools for fellow practitioners.
Whether you're looking to deepen your understanding of culturally competent care or seeking a community that values diversity and inclusion, A Hero’s Welcome offers a space for reflection, learning, and growth.
Hosts:
Maria Laquerre-Diego
maria@anewhopetc.org
Liliana Baylon
liliana@lilianabaylon.com
A Hero's Welcome Podcast
Officers' Path to Personal Growth and Well-being with Anjuli R. Thompson
Ever wonder how law enforcement officers manage their roles' immense stress while maintaining their identities? Our insightful guest, Anjuli Raven Thompson, a licensed professional counselor supervisor, steps into the spotlight to share her fascinating journey as a mental health advocate for police officers. Inspired by her husband's lengthy career in law enforcement, Anjali has carved out a unique niche by integrating synergetic play therapy into her work, offering officers a tailored approach to mental health support.
Empathy and authenticity are at the heart of our conversation, and we emphasize the necessity of humanizing law enforcement personnel. By understanding the societal pressures and stigmas they face, we can better support officers in separating their identities from their professional roles. Like officers, Anjuli shares how therapists must navigate this delicate balance in their own lives. Through our discussion, we open a dialogue on the importance of seeing officers as individuals with intricate identities and experiences.
This episode also explores the evolving landscape of police departments, highlighting a move toward community-based policing and greater acceptance of mental health support. Anjuli touches upon the critical role of continuous learning and self-improvement within law enforcement, encouraging officers to engage with mental health resources to enhance their skills and performance. Focusing on fostering a supportive environment, we aim to empower officers and inspire positive changes for them and the communities they serve.
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
welcome listeners to another episode of a hero's welcome podcast. We're very excited to have you today. I'm your co-host, marila carrie diego, and I'm here with my lovely co-host.
Speaker 2:She's talking about me. This is lillian raylan, uh, and we are very excited today because I have a special guest. How, until how, do you want to introduce yourself to our audience?
Speaker 3:um, well, I guess, like I said, okay, so we were just talking and a large part of my introduction is difficult for me because I just introduced myself as anjali um, but with the the vibe of kind of what's going on here today, we're going to be definitely talking about what I do as far as being in the counseling world, maybe being a business owner, and so I guess, as far as credentials go, I'm a licensed professional counselor supervisor. I actually don't promote that supervision part because I find it really hard at this point in my career I'm still practicing pretty hardcore. So I don't promote that I supervise because I feel like I can't give as much time as I would like to give to my supervisees, because I'm kind of a sink or swim type of girl. So I'm a licensed professional counseling supervisor. I also am EMDR trained. I'm a registered play therapist. I do synergetic play.
Speaker 3:I'm kind of all over the board because I get bored very easily and a large part of my niche, I guess you could say, is heavily involving me working with law enforcement officers. So my husband is a police officer. He's been in law enforcement for over 17 years and that's kind of where my journey began in this field. I kind of became like the law enforcement girl because I'm in the club and um it's kind of grown from there. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Like I said, first of all, you're not all over the place, and that's what I love about you. When we met um, do you want to tell us how we met, because I thought it was fucking hilarious, the best actually how long ago was that?
Speaker 3:okay? So we met at a play therapy conference.
Speaker 3:It was really funny actually, because we were in terry cotman class and, um, we were placed in a group in a family yeah and there was a lot of movement and I'm definitely not like a let's get out and move and dance and jellyfish around with these people. But we're at a play conference, right, we got to play. And so we're in this group. I happen to be placed with Liliana and Lisa Dion. We have the best time, like we just we were together.
Speaker 3:And then Meredith, she was in that, she was in our class, right, yes, so we were literally this family. And then the rest of the time we're like seeing each other at the conference, we're like hey fam, hey fam, you know, like we're family, whatever. Well then I go into this, this class, and it's Lisa Dion's class, and she gets up on stage. I'm like who the like her stuff? She's smart, she's smart. Who are all these people, you know? So then over time, we just kind of like connected and grew and then, um, we just we just clicked. It was just a really good time yeah.
Speaker 2:So for all of you who are there who have not taken a class with Terry, um, first of all, if you know anything about her, you know that it's a vibe and we all love her vibe. And then in that group I had to turn around and faced you and then you were supposed to just mimic whatever I did, and I was like I ain't gonna so fuck with you today. And I did, and she joined me and we were just we couldn't keep it straight. I'm I'm surprised that I did not pee my pants because you just like went with it and that was our introduction. So from that moment on, everyone thought that we knew each other for years. Yeah, but it was just that class, right.
Speaker 2:So then I started asking you questions so you share what your husband did and I was like, well, tell me more. I started learning how you were doing trainings for the police department and how you were helping them from an SPT lens, and then has expanded on how to attune, how to like understand what they were going through and God knows they were going through a lot as well. And then, like, you start sharing more and I was like, oh, this is important work that you're doing and it still is. So can you tell us a little bit more of recent trainings that you have done, or trainings that you have done and how the work that you do being a mental health therapist and being in the club I love that acknowledgement and being in the club is helping you provide services to them or trainings to them?
Speaker 3:So what's interesting about this SPT lens is that a lot of people on the outside I'm just going to say on the outside tend to focus on like, oh, look at those balloons, tend to focus on what they see is the issue, but really honestly, in the field, like it's a job, you know what I mean. So a lot of the time what people don't look at is like they're desensitized, and not necessarily in a negative way, to the things that they see. Now, of course you've got, you know, infant fatalities, officer involved, shootings, different things like that that can be heightened in nature, but for the most part it was the same as anybody that walks into my office and it's the breakdown of the home, it's the dysregulation in the home. And so synergetic play was really great because I'd already done, I've done multiple trainings, I do peer support stuff. So peer support is cop to cop, but they always want me there because I'm like a softer side. Essentially I'm not always soft but I'm a softer side. They listen to me more because I'm female.
Speaker 3:But over the course of like my career, prior to even being in like mental health, I worked in the court system. So a lot of my colleagues and friends were also law enforcement attorneys, so I'm in that like legal world. I worked for a judge for a really long time. We did traffic court and so it was really just relationships that I built over the course of time. That kind of got me where I am. And then they started asking for me to come and speak and I actually developed a training called 10 Deadly Errors in Law Enforcement and it was off this book by. It was called Code 10, officer Down, and I basically related like the errors in law enforcement to like mental wellness, to try to bridge the two and speak to them in their language so that I could also de-stigmatize mental health in the field. And I actually got. I had a really good friend I bet it's about who you know too. So I had a really good friend working in the memorials, like throughout the state of Alabama, who became like an advocate and a coordinator with a virtual academy which is a national organization they provide free CEUs to law enforcement and he was like Anjali, you need to come like teach through this platform. And I was like, okay, so I brought, I went up to Tennessee and I was like it was hard for me because when I teach like I've got to walk around and move and you know the interaction is like a huge part of like feeling out like what you're going to bring. You know Lisa talks about that too, like, and at that point I'm standing in between tape and I can't move and I spoke for four solid hours and I delivered my presentation, but that presentation is now like national, so it's it's.
Speaker 3:I still get emails to this day of people who will like email me from all over the US that like saw it and all it is is really just again, like stress management. It's destigmatizing what they see. It's asking the things that Lisa asked like well, what, if you're OK, because you run into with law enforcement, a lot of people will claim I've got post-traumatic stress disorder. Ok, well, that's also a perception most of the time and we know that. So I destigmatize that.
Speaker 3:I definitely, like I do a lot of new higher evaluations now, which are my most favorite thing to do. So anytime you've got newbie police officers coming in, they have to go through a psych. Essentially, oh, okay, and I actually have a template and I kind of I'm looking for a baseline and I'm teaching them about the nervous system and again, spt across the board like these are. I normalize things. I normalize that like I show up and I'm in my leggings and I'm comfortable and I'm like this is therapy, like this is education, and so my goal with them is to get them comfortable in a space prior to entering the field and then being highly aware of what their baseline is prior to adjustments that occur, so that over time if they need something and their baseline kind of starts to waver, they actually will come back to me.
Speaker 3:And it's been. It's been awesome. It was actually mandated almost three years ago in the state of Alabama that those evals are a mandate in our state. So I love that. It's like I said, it's been fun. I still I kind of hide more now, like I'm behind the scenes working, but anytime there's a big like incident that occurs like I will go and I will. I'm still making relationships with all the different agencies in our area, so it's just been a really fun thing.
Speaker 2:So for all of them out there who, when you said, like I'm hiding, I was like, well, you're not hiding, you're in a different family than your family. So you're like super busy because of your children? Yes, right, so let's name that out. Because you're human, you are a wife, you are a mother and you're super busy because your children are also super busy.
Speaker 3:Yes, big time athletes and I'm kind of supporting their drive and, yeah, we're all very driven family, so, but again, what's crazy is I mean I I'm very structured in all of my things, but that does leave little room for like extra. And I've gotten a lot better too. I've had people that will reach out and ask like, will you teach on this or will you teach on anxiety in the classroom or whatever? And in the old days, like I'd be like yeah, yeah, and I would spend time developing, developing. And then I realized, like probably two or three years ago, I was like I don't want to teach on anything other than 10 deadly errors, like I want to like hone in on that craft and really promote that. And so I've been saying no to certain things and really kind of just focusing on what I love to teach on, which is that.
Speaker 2:Which is a great message for anyone who's listening out there. Right, we just came from the business of therapy. We just came exactly discussing um. For all of you who are listening, business of therapy is a program that lisa dion has in addition to synergetic, which is just helping you for two and a half days, three days, um, um, if, if you uh decide to do the extra part, um, in regards to um, what do you want to say yes to? What do you say no to? And metaphors that she uses there.
Speaker 2:But coming back to it, and I think that's why no, this is why I know why I wanted to have you here, because when we think about police officers, we don't think of them as humans, and you humanized them for me when I met you and you were talking about everything that your husband was going through, and then how we can help them, how we can talk about the stigma that they have, the stigma that they deal, the projections as a society that we tend to put on them, when, in reality, it's not them.
Speaker 2:It's based on fears that we have, lack of knowledge that we have not them. It's based on fears that we have, lack of knowledge that we have and lack of understanding the stressors that they have in their job, which we all have right. So, for all of us who are therapists and we're thinking, what if a police officer comes and is seeking services? How can I help them, how can I humanize them? What is it that I need to know about their line of work? That it has never crossed my mind, because if you're a play therapist, you're just seeking trainings about working with the kiddos. But what if their father? What if their parents are police officers? What is it that you need to know about this system? Yeah Right, go ahead.
Speaker 3:I think one of the biggest things also, you know, lisa teaches like getting yourself off the pedestal. That's one of the biggest things that I push and encourage anybody to push when working with law enforcement. It's easier for me, I think and this is just me speaking from my experience, just because, like I do live it, but also like, so you know, they have this idea that we were counselors on, are on pedestals. You know, like we're we're subhuman at times. For the love of God, we can't break, we can't scream, we can't be tired and overworking ourselves. You know. So it's like, weirdly, there's a way to relate that, even as a counselor to law enforcement and and kind of even say, like you know, at the end of the beginning phase of this is going to be getting yourself off the pedestal.
Speaker 3:Number one, because the world places them on a pedestal, and that's been super helpful for me personally, is trying to separate the identity from the job and work with the identity. Because I tell people all the time like this is like at the end of the day, they you're a business move, that's the truth. So I tell them, like you're a business move, they will replace you the moment that you leave. They don't.
Speaker 3:It's not that they don't care, but it's kind of similar to even running a group practice. You know what I mean. Like I love my counselors and we are in the business of feelings, but at the end of the day you're also a business move. Like you're a 1099, you're a contractor, you can go, do whatever you want, but you're still a business move. So you have to make sure that you're strong in your identity outside of that field and it's been. That's really what I push with that population, because I mean I've worked with people from the brand new baby 19 year old cops who are like ready to change the world, and then the cops that are like 25 years in, literally asking themselves who am I?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's a delayed response. And who am I? And my goal when I get them here, as they're still in the field, is to go ahead and figure out your identity prior to retirement.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:So, if anything, it's again just de-stigmatizing, like, okay, but who are you outside of this job?
Speaker 1:yeah and getting them to actually kind of reflect in on that versus what is wrong with me yeah, I can see how that might be difficult, oh gosh, when their job is really kind of consuming, right like it is. Um and two things like one is the perception of police officers, and in today's day and age it's not great. They're not seen as safe individuals, it's not seen as a safe organization and we are grouping them all together right, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:And so being able to like who are you outside of this job and how does that impact your ability to do your job and who you are when you are putting on that uniform, is very similar to like who are we as therapists outside of putting on our you know cardigan to be very cliche about therapists, right, but I think there's something to that that we I know and we've talked about this before. Liliato, in my training I was, I was told to check my identity at the door and I was not me in the clinic room, and you know we're we're all speaking the same synergetic language here that we know that that's not true and that's not helpful, right, that's not helpful, right. So I can see you helping them find their identity, not just for themselves, for post-retirement, but to keep part of that humanity in a job that is very difficult to do is not well supported by some communities, and keeping them connected to that humanity piece both ways, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:Right. So for all of you who are listening, it's not that different than the work that we already do. And the invitation is can you be curious about this population? Because they're humans like you and me, right, and what we're discussing today is like first of all, let's get you off the pedestal. Um was your um, what's your baseline? I love that a lot, actually. What's your baseline so that you can recognize your dysregulation? What a beautiful invitation. When you are dysregulated, what can you do to seek the support that you need? Either co-regulation, therapy, family, whatever it is, sports, like, what is it that you need? And then your identity who are you outside this uniform and who are you when you're in that uniform? What is required of you? Both areas that is such a important work to do.
Speaker 3:You feel heavy and it does take time for them to trust that. Like I said, you know, I operate also very maslow's. Like, yeah, when I, when I say baseline, I'm also looking at, like you know, when people come in, I'm like okay, who's your primary doctor? And like why don't we make sure that your physical health is good? Yeah, because I mean I've had clients who have come in hallucinating because they're iron loaders. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So like I'm very Maslow's, I'm very ground from the bottom up, so I make sure that they've got a good physical support system when it comes to managing that physical health. A good physical support system when it comes to managing that physical health, especially because as stress starts to compact, like you know, your physical health will start to drain and then you lose sleep. And so I mean there are times people will come in and I'm like you don't drink enough water and you're hungry. You know like let's, let's get a routine around that and let's orient to that part of you so that when that part that you can control is controlled well, the other parts are so much easier to operate in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 3:And they um, they definitely receive that. Well, it takes time because I'm like I don't give a shit about your problems, like I don't care, like you're, you're, you want me to listen to you, but I'm not listening to you until you listen to me. That's true. That's where I'm at right now and I work for some and I don't work for others and for the most part, like people want the truth, so I try to deliver the truth pretty early on so that they know and I teach them quickly how I operate. Like I want you to feel better quickly. Have you ever seen stutz on netflix? Do?
Speaker 3:you know who stutz is no, oh my gosh, do you know who? Uh, what's that guy's name? Jonah hill. I know who that is. Yeah, he does this.
Speaker 3:There's this documentary on netflix called stutz and it's him with his therapist and I know it's hollywood, right, like I'm sure who, who knows what. All is real, but it seems pretty pretty real. Okay, but Phil Stutz is also. He's a psychologist in New York, like Jonah is one of his clients and they do this documentary together, which was kind of taboo.
Speaker 3:But Phil Stutz and the way he operates is very much like that. He was like you know, I'm going through school, I'm hearing everything that they're teaching me as a therapist and how to be and how to operate, and same thing that we've been kind of, you know, broken with Lisa's teachings. And he was like I noticed that people are leaving and they're not feeling okay and they're not feeling better. And he's like so I started approaching it from a different angle and I told people the truth up front, like this is what you need to do, and if it's not going to, if you're not going to do it and you're not willing to do it, say that, be honest. And so I've learned that over time, the more honest you are, even if there's risk for loss. They're still going to remember it, even if they decide that you're not the fit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and how basic. I was like how many of you who are listening to us when we say like, well, have you in, have you slept, have you been drinking, have you been hydrating? And we're talking about water, and then others were like, oh shit, no, we don't prioritize that. And how important, vital it is, and and how, because that impacts how you feel and and your capacity to respond.
Speaker 3:So I think that's necessary for to even regulate your nervous system, like it's if you're dehydrated and your system's already screaming. And then you and I just recently did an emdr training up with annie monaco up in new york. Fabulous, love her, oh my gosh. Yeah, and the way she operates. I'm like there's on there, like she's like parts work. We're not going to get there until you do this Like, but it's genuinely taking control of the baseline so that as the things come in that dysregulate you into a dissociative part that doesn't serve you well, necessarily, in that event you can reorient to yourself.
Speaker 3:So, it's brilliant stuff.
Speaker 2:And even when you said hydrate, I remember like when we were hanging and all the bottles that you had, cause it was water everywhere. This woman hydrates and she's like this is not enough. I was like it is.
Speaker 3:I've like traumatized myself with hydration stuff, like I'm like, okay, what's the truth? Half my body weight when I'm thirsty, what is it, you know? So I've even been working on like that natural, like intuitive part of me, that's like yeah let me calm down a bit when it comes to even that water pushing stuff.
Speaker 1:So I think that that goes to like societal messages and even even medical messages, right, like it changes over time. Eggs are good for you. Eggs are bad for you, right, like you need to have half your body weight. Actually, you only need eight glasses. Well, what is a glass Like it? It it's varied, right, as new information comes out, or who you're listening to and who you're getting that information from. I think that that goes along with what is mental health, right? What is therapy really? Look like, um, and I can see that being extended to like what is a police officer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is the perception of law enforcement, right Cause we have things that are like protect and serve, and then we have shows like law and order, and then we have like really what's happening in in communities that that's not okay, and then we have, you know, we also have like really impactful stories that show that they are good people and like doing the work and doing what they're supposed to be doing. So I think it's important to to be like who are we listening to? Who are we getting that message from? And is it true? Right, going back to the intuitiveness, is it true for us? Right, yeah?
Speaker 2:and even beyond that right, because then is the stereotypes that we're building around professions or around people? Because when I think of military, when I think of police officers, I think they are trained to detach, they are trained to do a job and society them for doing that job, when their training required you to do this. So how do we help the individual? The same way that we're going through a shift in mental health, which is you get to show up and be you, you don't have to have. I love when you say like is that why we all wear sweaters? Part of like, oh, you're a therapist because you wear the sweater. Um, but um, it's. How do we humanize and make sense of what is expected of them because of their training and then the human side that they have, that they don't get to show up, um, and I remember um, working with the police officer and the first thing we was doing emotionally focused therapy and the goal of emotionally focused therapy, which is go to primary emotion. And I remember talking to this individual and he said I cannot afford to like completely be in it, because as soon as I leave here, I have to go and do this. So then we started breaking it down into parts what you were saying, which is like, okay, in this moment, when you are with your significant other, what is it that is needed? What are we asking of and how we can be more? How can we talk about parts so that when you leave, you get to put this part again because you have to go function? It's part of your survival mechanism. You are here with her. What is it that we need when you're with your children? What is it that you need? Do they need the police officer or they need you? So is this part? But that helped me, because he also mentioned a book and I don't have it here that I went and read and I was crying when I was reading and it was not the one that you mentioned um, code 10, um, but it was um and I forgot the name of the book um. But it helped me to humanize and to make sense of oh, you have to carry this defense mechanism all the time to do what is required of you, which is you know what you're teaching now, which is what is it that you? Which is you know what you're teaching now, which is what is it that you know about you, because you got the training on how to be a police officer, got it and it's going to be ongoing. But what you're suggesting, which is how do we help desensitize, first of all, mental health and then, in that is, how do we help you treat the whole person.
Speaker 2:If I'm getting this right, which is, tell me about your body, what is it that it needs? Are you resting? Are you going to your wellness check? Are you eating? Are you hydrating and we're not talking about coffee, because we all drink coffee, but, like, are you actually hydrating? And, if so, when you come with me, what is it that you want to accomplish with me? Because I have an agenda when I think of mental health, but what is it that you truly need from me? What is it that you are aware when you're talking about your baseline? And then, what is it? What is the goal of in order for you to go function in all the parts that you're functioning? And I think for me, since I met you, which is, how do I humanize what you want to humanize and how do we work on those defenses that you need in order to survive?
Speaker 3:Well, and law enforcement's filled with a lot of shoulds, you know so. So the thing about it too is one of the questions I ask. Most of them is can you understand how you got here? Because you've got they will get to the outside behavior. How you got here because you've got they will get to the outside behavior, which could be porn addiction and infidelity and alcoholism and the coping right so like once they've expanded to that style of coping, also even normalizing, how you got to that style of coping.
Speaker 3:You know, like the adrenaline, like you're essentially when your nervous system is so used to functioning at a higher state. Any time that you're actually down in a normal realm of functioning it feels very dysregulating to you and you're going to do anything you can to make sure your nervous system is creating that. And it comes with all kinds of different things that anybody on the outside would look at and shame because it's abnormal to you. Know, go out and do this or go out like constantly drink every day. So I try to get people to, even in the beginning, like where are you? Like, let's normalize where you're at first. Yeah, because if we can also slowly take control of the shame cycle that comes in, which creates that obsession and the compulsion, we can, we can do away with the cycle of it. We can understand how it got there and then we can work with it, that we can reduce it.
Speaker 3:So it's it's really hard to get people to understand like, oh, that makes sense why I'm addicted to porn. It makes sense that one of my very first sexual experiences was virtual. You know, like it. It makes sense that that's now being reinforced because now I've also tied my ejaculation with regulating my nervous system and anxiety that's been built up inside of me. So it just takes time to get them to get comfortable enough. And now that comes with. That's difficult too, as a female work who works primarily with males, because you've got wives who also question like how are you going in there and and talking to your female therapist about sex and ejaculation and okay. So that's why I'm like, okay, well, let's also normalize this for her. Like let's get in here and understanding like what this is? Because it comes with the whole other level of they want to trust you. And then they sometimes question how can I trust you with this but not get anybody else on the outside to understand it?
Speaker 3:yeah but I mean there's so many multiple layers to every person and then sometimes I get really lucky and you know you've got pretty solid. You know police officers that come in that have had pretty shitty lives and they're extremely resilient individuals that are very connected to themselves and to their families and they just soak up the knowledge and then they just grow and grow and grow in the field and those are the ones that then become supervisors. And then you know, if those people are supervisors, well then they're spreading all the light that they naturally have in them to their subordinates. And so it's neat to learn even the different like police departments and their structures and like when I'm doing these new hire evaluations, I'm like what police department are you applying for? You can almost tell if they're going to fit or not. You're like, oh, that's not going to work there, son, you know, like, but it's, it's just so neat to look at even the police department as an individual and to and to see the structure of how they function and who are the higher ups. And that, and what I'm noticing too, is like a lot of the people that are now in their 30s to 40s who are very, very open to the newer, community-based policing.
Speaker 3:Things are getting a lot better. Um, now, back in the day, you know when there weren't body cams and street justice and everyone's you know old school men duke it out. You know like we settle it up fist to fist you know like that was acceptable at a certain time. You and now it's body cams and judgment, and people are getting better at being able to community police. But that also takes building relationships with your community, yeah, and so it's even normalizing that with people, and I'm finding more people between 30s and 40s are very much more open to like therapy and mental health and wellness. They're even trying to develop. You've got police departments that are wanting to develop like mental health policy, and so I've been excited to help kind of like sit with them and their policies and look at it and be like, hey, well, that's beautiful, but it also doesn't fit here.
Speaker 3:You know like that won't work because again, you still have to operate like a business yeah so it's just, you know it's every day is going to be an adjustment and I think that as long as there's more conversation about it and the more people that have positive experiences where they come in and they see that oh okay, wait, they're talking about like stress management then they get to share that and it becomes less of I'm crazy yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I made a connection. Police officers we have these projections to police officers, um, and we don't humanize them the same way that we therapists do not humanize ourselves when we're working in different settings, right? So then, like the way that we therapists do not humanize ourselves when we're working in different settings, right? So then, like the projections that we have and I was like, wait a minute they have to answer to someone the same way that we answer to agency work that we do insurances, medicaid, schools. So it's not different than that. They have to respond to a setting and they have to adjust to the setting in order to make a living.
Speaker 3:Yes, the same way that we do. Yes, that's exactly it, and so that's why I also encourage people, even as they're coming up, like like know yourself well enough now to know that you don't have to be a yes man number one, like, if the values of this system don't fit your values, this isn't the system for you. There are plenty of other systems to work within. And so you've got some people who their nervous systems naturally fit with, like a higher, high capacity, high volume, paced environment, and they're good with that because they they're very calm in that higher functioning setting. And you've got some people who aren't very good in that. I need a smaller, like rural based community where it's relationships and even though you put old jim bob over here in jail, like he's gonna call you next week and be like, hey, can you come help me? Like I need to come, I need to go down the road, so it's like look at your system.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And if your values aren't fitting well this is the Demartini value stuff too, you know like if your values are not aligning well with the department and the structure of the system that you're in, look for a different system, and you're allowed to do that because you want to be able to function optimally, making money in a system that aligns well with you, so that you can go home and be with your family Beautiful.
Speaker 2:So, for all of you who are listening, let's link it into what you do. So, if you're working with Medicaid and that that's not longer speaks to your values, you may move to private pay. If you're working with an agency and that's no longer because of the experience they have, that may look like you moving into. You know, a different setting police officers. This is what I'm learning. I'm humanizing them so much today. Which part of our already I was already doing with you, especially since we were having those personal phone calls, um, in regards to tell me what your hubby's doing and how he's saying things. How are you doing with him? You know doing that. How are your kids are doing? Um, those part of the, the connections that we were doing? Um, but is? Um?
Speaker 2:It's a population that need our help and it needs us, as therapists, to understand the settings that they work with, the expectations that they have in those settings, the projections of society and how, a lot of the times, when they don't have a grounded identity, they may get lost pretty much. I have to be this all the time. They're helpers too. They think that they have to be on all the time, not different than what we therapists tend to do ourselves, which is think that we have to go and be there all the time, and I love that. Part of your job is providing psychoeducation in regards to who you are, what's your identity, who am I in this system? What is your baseline when it comes to regulation, dysregulation? And then, what's your identity outside, how your hierarchy of needs, how those are being met in order for you to fully show up, not only in your personal but your professional side, because they impact each other.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that gives them that you know, as you connect the parts to you, you can jump less and less in between. You know, as you connect the parts to you, how you can jump less and less in between there doesn't have to be a polarity so much, as most of the most of the time people are you know, police officers are also there.
Speaker 3:They function based on their schedule. You know, it's on duty, off duty, on duty, off, duty, on, on, off, off, on, on on flop, you know. So it's like I haven't teach that too. Like, okay, that is literally for your schedule. Okay, there are parts of you again universally that don't need to just be off. Yeah, and there's a really great book. It's called Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement. It is a simple read. That's the one that I read. It's beautiful because it talks about the hypervigilance roller coaster. It talks about the couch potato mode, like it's. It's just, it's such a good depiction of the on off mentality that we have to do away with so that again you can kind of show up and your parts aren't as, yeah, up and down, yeah, and that it's officer down, code three, not ten. There are ten errors, it's code three. I just remembered that. But that's a good book written in the 80s, and he just basically relates like getting yourself in bad positions and yeah, it's. It's a really good book.
Speaker 2:But yeah, oh god, this was so good. Uh, my mind is like trying to link information, thank you. Thank you for what you do. I know you're only doing it in Alabama, but and I know you don't have capacity you stated not having capacity, but I hope you keep expanding your training because it's needed nationwide.
Speaker 3:Yes, I definitely look forward to. I've talked about. I just I've talked about taking it further needed nationwide. Yes, I definitely look forward to. I've talked about. I've talked about taking it further than virtual academy and actually like getting myself out there eventually with law enforcement where I can go and put myself more in the conferences, but I just haven't. I think that's in the next like five-ish years maybe. So, that's definitely a goal, but yeah, thank you all so much for having me. I love conversations like this.
Speaker 2:Maria, any final thoughts before we go?
Speaker 1:We'd love that. No, I'm just so thankful that you and others like you are doing this work because it's you know it's not for everybody. Like you are doing this work, Um, cause it's you know it's not for everybody. Not everybody has the capacity to humanize, um, even in the therapist chair. Right, we all have our own um, struggles and populations, Um, but this is so, so important and it's only going to become more and more. Right Like this isn't going to be something that's just going to be quickly. You know you're going to reach a level and be like fine, everything is good, I'm not needed anymore. Right, Like we all wish we could work ourselves out of a job. Right, Like that, that's the ideal goal. But I'm just so thankful that that you have your foot in both worlds and can speak the language and translate it back and forth, so that police officers have the ability and the opportunity to learn from you and to learn for themselves, to better themselves, which then, in turn, betters their work. Right, I just love that thank you.
Speaker 2:So thank you for being here. Listeners until next time. Um, please take care and um thank you and really talk soon.
