A Hero's Welcome Podcast
A Hero’s Welcome Podcast
Hosted by Maria Laquerre Diego, and Liliana Baylon, both LMFT-S and RPT-S
A Hero’s Welcome is a podcast for mental health professionals committed to culturally responsive care. Each episode features in-depth conversations with clinicians, supervisors, and consultants who bring diverse perspectives to the forefront.
We discuss mental health topics including psychotherapy models, clinical interventions, trauma-informed practices, and the role of cultural humility in therapeutic work. Our guests share their experiences serving children, families, and communities impacted by systemic stressors, offering insights and practical tools for fellow practitioners.
Whether you're looking to deepen your understanding of culturally competent care or seeking a community that values diversity and inclusion, A Hero’s Welcome offers a space for reflection, learning, and growth.
Hosts:
Maria Laquerre-Diego
maria@anewhopetc.org
Liliana Baylon
liliana@lilianabaylon.com
A Hero's Welcome Podcast
The Role of Attachment and Mentorship with Clair Mellenthin
Discover the transformative power of earned security in attachment theory with the insightful Clair Mellenthin, the brilliant mind behind Attachment-Centered Play Therapy. Clair unveils her pioneering research on the journey of registered play therapists, highlighting how their attachment histories deeply influence their professional and personal lives. This conversation offers a beacon of hope, emphasizing that early relationship patterns are not set in stone and can evolve through nurturing surrogate attachments like mentors and supervisors, showcasing the resilience of the human spirit.
We explore the significant impact of mentorship and its profound role in shaping successful careers in social work. Drawing from personal stories and experiences, the episode highlights gratitude to mentors who have acted as guiding lights, our "birthday candles" illuminating the path towards growth even in the darkest times. It’s a heartfelt reminder of the importance of positive influences and the encouragement to become the supportive figures we might have longed for ourselves, emphasizing that anyone can foster earned security through supportive relationships.
In the evolving landscape of supervision post-COVID-19, the necessity of authentic and safe relationships is more pressing than ever. This episode examines supervisors' challenges in connecting with newer generations accustomed to digital communication. By embracing a blend of emotional intelligence and innovative supervision training, inspired by thinkers like Brené Brown, we discuss creating an enriching, trust-based environment for growth. This conversation centers around the need for ongoing adaptation and learning to nurture secure, supportive supervisory relationships that allow supervisors and supervisees to thrive while acknowledging that trust and genuine connections are the cornerstones of such interactions.
A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon
Welcome back listeners for another episode of a Heroes Welcome podcast. I am your co-host, maria LaCare Diego, and I'm joined today by my lovely co-host.
Speaker 2:That's me. I'm not only the co-host. I'm going to say that I'm your attachment person, maria, for today's topic. I love that. My name is Liliana Valon and I'm here with the amazing Claire. Claire, how would you like to introduce yourself to our audience?
Speaker 3:I'm Claire Melantine. I am the creator of Attachment-Centered Play Therapy and my lens like how I see the world. I've been a therapist now we just were kind of figuring this out the other day in a training. I've been a social worker longer in my adult life than I've been not one.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, isn't that wild. So I've been in the field of social work and play therapy now for 24 years longer for the field of social work but it is kind of a crazy milestone to think like I've been a social worker longer than I haven't been. Yeah, that's amazing, not wild. I mean it dates me.
Speaker 2:I was like hello, then we need to do another episode. And what are you doing to take care of your skin when you have been in the field for 20 years and this is what you look for? Like that's another episode. We will come back.
Speaker 3:Genetics now for like that's another.
Speaker 1:We will come back genetics now.
Speaker 2:Well, that is huge.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, congratulations, and thank you, and thank you for what you've done for the field of both social work and play therapy so, um, thank you, claire.
Speaker 2:So I'm wondering, claire, for everyone, who's out there? Um, not who's out there, everyone is out there. Anyone listening to this podcast? What is it we're going to talk about today?
Speaker 3:So one of the things that I have just I'm wrapping up currently COVID did crazy things to all of us and I thought it was a great idea to just like slip in a doctoral program, so slide that in. It won't be too disruptive to everything else that I do. You know such good intent to had a good dose of humble pie. But one of the things that I've been researching so I actually am just finishing is the first study ever done on the lived experiences of registered play therapists and how their attachment history has kind of shaped who they've become and how they engage with clients and their families.
Speaker 3:Um, and and so I'm really excited, you know, to want to be done with school, holy cow, but also get some of this new information that's coming out there to the world, because it's something that I'm so passionate about and I love so much. But one of the really beautiful findings that has been coming from my study and from I did a qualitative research study, so it's interviewing different play therapists from all across the country and you know these are coming from all walks of life, all you know, as different as we could be right With our, where our origin stories are and one of the most beautiful things coming from my research has been the importance and the power of earned security in adulthood and especially that role that a mentor and a supervisor takes in creating that for clinicians, and I just think that that's something that we don't really talk about very much and I think that could be a really fun way to kind of kick off the podcast today.
Speaker 1:I love that. So for those that may not know, what do you mean by earned security?
Speaker 3:So what earned security is is you can come. So basically you can come from a pretty disadvantaged early upbringing in terms of relationship quality, so children who have been exposed to abuse, neglect, unloving parents and experiences with parental figures. And what we used to think about in attachment theory is like you were kind of destined to have this disorganized, disorientating experience in relationships like throughout your whole life because of these early beginnings. And what contemporary attachment science you know has found over the last few decades is you're not one. We're so much more resilient than that as humans and we're not destined to repeat the patterns of the past. It's hard to change, but it's not your destiny.
Speaker 3:And so what Aaron Security refers to is finding the surrogate attachment figures, other safe adults and even sometimes older children or older mentors, and sometimes that comes in the form of a friendship, a lover, a mentor, you know some surrogate attachment figure that really can just create an experience of security with you and help fill in all those holes from childhood. And what happens is through these earned secure relationships, then that child who maybe didn't experience secure attachment early in their life learns how to through these other outside relationships. And then there's like such cool research out there how that shifts their parenting, it shifts the way that they're interacting with the world, it shifts how they see themselves and their experience of themselves and others. And so I think that this, this idea of insecurity, for me has always been like holding up, like this big lantern of hope, you know, especially with my clients who maybe didn't have big beacons of hope growing up.
Speaker 2:I love that you're doing this, especially because, for all as we're talking about from the perspective of mentors and supervisors and supervisees relationship, we have this idea.
Speaker 2:When we went to our master's program and all of you who are there, you know who you are.
Speaker 2:You're not reading about attachment unless you have to, so I'm calling you out, but all of us, when we went into our master's program, we thought that what both we suggested was that you have that attachment style and then you were doomed.
Speaker 2:So most of us go into grief, thinking like my God. We go into the fantasy, grief, anger, like all these things, because we feel like we're done and when, in reality, in the last couple of years more than a couple of years the new research that is emerging as you're discussing, and the new books that are coming out, they're saying we actually have multiple attachment styles with different people, which is such a beautiful reframe of giving hope. I love the lantern metaphor that you use, which is exactly it. And then taking it to this point of the research that you're doing in regards to supervisees, mentors and supervisors, how beautiful it is because we are in systems where they're asking us to be professional all the time, to attend to but not have awareness of what is happening for you in that session and in that relationship, how beautiful and important job you're doing right now focusing on that.
Speaker 3:Thanks. I think that that's been something you know, being a supervisor for the last two decades. That's remind us you know a little bit, a little plus with that.
Speaker 1:Nobody do the math. Nobody do the math.
Speaker 3:You know, one of the things, especially in social work, is there's not a lot of training on how to become a supervisor. You don't actually have to take training on how to be a supervisor. You have to be licensed for two years and it's like, okay, great, go supervise In other mental health disciplines. You know, my MFT friends know that. Oh, you actually have to do a lot of training on how to become a supervisor. Yes, you know, lpc, I think, is really similar, where it's like there's not a lot of training. It's like do it if you want, but you don't really have to, and so you know we have this.
Speaker 3:So many people out there who have such good intent and how to supervise, but if you haven't done like your own work, or you're not familiar with familiar with what supervision could even entail, you know, I think a lot of times, like everyone's doing the best that they know how to, and there's so much more that goes in supervision besides just talking about cases and doing paperwork, and you know, so much of this, though, is dependent upon what the supervisor's training is Right.
Speaker 3:So if you were never trained in understanding countertransference and transference, for example, like that, those aren't bad things, but they're actually amazing tools to use in the same way as somebody else. And I think, like the art of psychodynamic theory is definitely going out of vogue, but those foundational elements of of mental health, I'm like all the theories come from this, you know, and and I think sometimes that part gets missed you know how important these experiences, experiences like the between and within that's happening right, like it's not just how what's coming up for you or what you think about what's coming up for somebody else, but figuring out, okay, now, what's the in-between space and what is this really about. And and I think when supervisors take the time to get to know the person, the soul of the therapist they're supervising, and allow them to get to know you, it changes everything.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. I think I know my own experience of being promoted to supervisor was I was last therapist standing. I didn't have additional training, I didn't even at the time have the want for said responsibilities. I didn't even fully understand the risks and liabilities I was taking on in that new position. And as I've got a couple of years not quite as many as you as a supervisor, but under my belt, what I see in my mentorships and supervision is new supervisors often will, like we see, reflected with parents, right, like I'm either going to replicate what was what I experienced or I'm going to swing to the opposite end and try to do everything different. If I felt like that was a negative experience and that's survival, right, like we know that that's, that's survival. But I would love to see more intentional work around building up supervisors and training around how to be a supervisor that includes all of this and not just how to watch productivity and review documentation.
Speaker 2:Right. So I love that the three of us are in consensus of we need more. So, for all of you who are listening out there, what Claire and Maria are talking about is when you go to school and you're like I want to become a supervisor, every state has completely different requirements. Some states you don't have to do anything. In some states you do. Most of us tend to be supervisors either of licensure or credentialing, and most therapists still do not understand the difference between the two.
Speaker 2:And what you are suggesting, or what you're talking about here, claire, is more than the logistics of going through checklists to meet requirements for licensure and credentialing. What you're suggesting is how do we build and empower supervisees? How do we mentor from a relational point of view? Or, as Brené Brown, one of her latest podcasts, was talking about, we went from leadership of task-oriented to brain-oriented, to heart-oriented now. So it's that relational piece that you're discussing, and we do have to show up in order to give a different template which does what you're suggesting from an attachment perspective, in order for them to see themselves and trust themselves in this development journey that they are embarking on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I love that being heart centered. That resonates so much with me. You know, like how I, how I approach life, but I think especially these relationships. And you know, maria, I think that you had a really good point too. You know, so much of our training is what we experience, right. And so I can think back to my early years.
Speaker 3:I had a phenomenal, phenomenal experience with a supervisor in grad school, my other internship. I was really grateful I had other colleagues in there that could help fill in the gaps, because it wasn't quite that same level of relationship there. And, and I'm so grateful that other people could help fill in the spaces that you know where there was gaps. And those two experiences definitely taught me the kind of person I wanted to show up and be, which was modeling.
Speaker 3:After my first supervisor, you know, I look back at that first experience in social work and I just have so much gratitude because I was surrounded surrounded by mentors who absolutely loved me. I knew that I was loved. They supported me, they stretched me, they challenged me and they also took me under their wing. And I say collectively, because that was my experience with every licensed person that I was working with. I had an amazing supervisor, but I also had this collection of mentors that you know, really paved the pathway for what I'm even doing, you know, taught me about play therapy, gave me language for this, had me experience this, you know, and, and set the stage for this whole professional development of who I, who I've become and continue to be coming. You know, and, and I think back, if, like, my only experience had been the opposite of that, what a different professional development I may have had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, for me it's like well, yes, of course, claire, your focus on attachment and relationships, because you had that from the beginning in your career path, at least. Right, and and not everyone is as lucky, I think I'm more and more I run into like people have both experiences, right, we have. We have some in the good column and we have some in the well, I learned a lot column, and I think I think both of those things are true, and because we do, we learn. We learn from the good and from the bad, and I, you know, I'm I know that this is part of your research, but I'm wondering, like are there a couple of things that you can share with our listeners in terms of, like little nuggets that have come up for you that you feel like, oh, this, people need to know about this, mm-hmm yes, I'm like where do you even start?
Speaker 3:So I think some of the things that have stood out to me as a supervisor supervisee as well, as you know listening to the stories from my research, which that was like a whole nother level of just beautiful humility, like such an honor for people to share their stories with me and to trust me with. We weren't talking about easy things. You know, talking about your attachment history with a stranger is something that is so, takes so much courage and is so brave and and so really thinking and wanting to honor the participants in the study as well, and so really thinking and wanting to honor the participants in the study as well, man, it's amazing, you know, like I think about that and like my heart just is so full for them and for that experience.
Speaker 3:One of the stories you know coming from the research was there's been a few different ones, you know where the earned security started actually by being a teenager and being forced to go to therapy and finding their first earned security experience through that therapeutic relationship with their therapist and, for the first time, having an adult truly see them for who they are, love them as they are, experience this worth and dignity of a person where they've never had an adult treat them in that way before. Yeah, and it was through that experience of having this beautiful therapeutic relationship that that planted the seed of this is what I want to do, and there were a few similar stories. Most of the therapists in my research study did not come from idealistic upbringing. You know that thing that we always say like oh, we're all wounded healers.
Speaker 3:You know, like there's, there's some truth in this Out of all my participants, I had two people that you know kind of self-identified, having a secure attachment growing up with their caregivers and their parents.
Speaker 1:Wow, but I think that that's a good representation, right Like that's an honest representation, yep.
Speaker 3:And for all the other ones, right, like this idea of earned security, seeds began to be planted and other safe grownups, right. That kind of paved the way of like I want to become somebody that I never had. I want to be a safe grownup because I didn't have one. I had this beautiful experience with a therapist or with a mentor, or with a teacher or a friend or a lover, whatever this was. I want to be that because I didn't have that, you know. And so as we talk about the ways that we're shaped and how we become like, you know these pathways, you know, one of the things that I oftentimes teach, you know, when we're talking about attachment and attachment theory is I usually, you know, kind of refer to these key people as birthday candles. And so you know, like, the way I conceptualize this is like if you have one little tiny cake candle, one little birthday candle, and you're all alone in the dark, it's not enough to see what's out in front of you, like in the distance, but it's enough to see what's right here and through our life we go around collecting birthday candles, and if you have a handful of birthday candles, that becomes a torch, and so when you're alone in a dark space. That is enough to see what's ahead of you and ways to help pave you, you know, pave a safe pathway forward.
Speaker 3:And listening to the stories about how important these different mentors and these supervisors and these safe grownups, you know like oftentimes, especially when you're working with a little one or you're in contact with another human, they might be in a big person body but they're still in that really wounded little person world. You may have no idea that you're making a difference. Yeah, like men, because they're not going to show you. You know, and it's, it's not until you've been in relationship for years, months and years and maybe even as well after that time has ended. And you know this is one of those things like being in the field as long as I have, you know, like there's been times where I've gotten a graduation announcement or a letter or a marriage announcement or you know, you know you've been in the field for a really, really, really long time. If they bring their child to come see you and all these years they've been carrying this birthday candle of this was a safe place for me.
Speaker 1:That is powerful.
Speaker 2:It's powerful. I think, uh, even in our role as a play therapist or a therapist, that it doesn't matter the credential that you have, we tend to minimize what we do because we're focusing on we're focusing on task um, the therapy session, the treatment plan, the so on and so forth that we tend to forget how we are secure base for our clients and secure base for our supervisees or our mentorees, and we forget that relational piece. And you're highlighting it today. You are lighting on a candle today to say, hey, did you remember this piece? You are lighting on a candle today to say, hey, did you remember this piece?
Speaker 2:And in that intent of you know, I always ask in my supervision trainings what is the failed sense that you want to create in supervision? What was the failed sense for you? And any time that we go into the group activity, you know what they share is this is what I like, this is what I don't like, this is what I want to duplicate, what I don't like, this is what I want to replicate. And I was like perfect, but that intention, what is it that we have to do to? To create a secure base of? Go explore, I'll be here right which is like go free, and in that, for us as supervisors and mentors, we are working on earning that security because we are creating a different template for them that hopefully they get to duplicate, not only with their clients but later with their supervisors too.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and I love that idea that we're earning that. Yeah, just as much as they are Right, because I mean we can be like I'm safe here, come engage with me, I'm so nice, right. But without relationship, and a true relationship, an authentic relationship safety cannot be established. You know one of the things I love that Steve Pargeas has taught over the years, you know, but he says our, our brains. First question, wherever we walk into, is am I safe, am I safe? Am I safe? Am I safe, am I safe? Yeah, right. So we all have like these beacons out there of like where's my safe places, Where's my safe people? And and as soon as you find, you know that that safety in there, it's like your whole body's like okay, I can relax, I can be fine, we're okay. You know, but those early stages of supervision may not feel that way for either one of you.
Speaker 1:yeah, and I think I think it's important that we can recognize that. I think it's important that we're saying it out loud, because I think there's this misconception of like, of course I'm safe, I'm a supervisor, right, and we can all sit here and laugh going. I had supervisors who were not safe people. And just because you've been in the field longer or you have this title or this credential does not automatically the assumption is not that you are a safe person. That is still something that needs to be earned. That is something that you know. There may be ruptures and repairs that still need to happen. Right, like it is, it is very much a relationship that we are creating and I think being able to, as a supervisor and as a mentor of other supervisors, being like it's okay that they're not fully trusting you that's, that's actually a really healthy response to this new relationship. Right, because instant attachment isn't always the safest either. Right?
Speaker 3:Right, and, as we always teach our people, rapport is different from relationship. Yes, right, and I think sometimes it's easy to miss that because, like, oh, we just jacked together. This is great, you know, and because it feels good on the surface, it's easy to stay there for both the supervisor and the supervisee. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Surface is the safest point of view, right? I always picture like that relationship being like my head is above water and everything else is hidden, because, one, I don't have the template and then, two, I am not sure that I can trust you that way yet, right? So that's why I said earn security from a supervisor standpoint of you, because it is my job to work on that relationship so that I create safety, so that you feel safe enough to ask for help.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely, absolutely, and I love that Like, yeah, I was picturing like a boat on water right and like surface level is, it can be sunshine and rainbows. But like we're going to have to do hard work, we're going to have to talk about tough stuff. I'm going to have to, like, toe the line for some things. I might have to be more disciplinary, depending on your supervision. You know roles and requirements, and that only is going to be effective and helpful if there's a relationship here that feels safe for both of us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, right. And I think sometimes for supervisors that's hard Like I.
Speaker 3:You know I've been consulting with several people over the last couple of years, you know, with kind of like this this makes me sound so old the newer generation of 30s, but you know who grew up with social media and with the internet and with all these things that I mean it does make me sound so old talking about this, but you know they're a different breed, at your fingertips, as well as being trained on TikTok.
Speaker 3:You know, dr, tiktok and of everything is a boundary, everything is toxic, everything is like these big, huge black and white statements and helping helping them understand like, oh, but there's like so much that goes into this, and figuring out again this idea of safety, because if you have grown up learning that, like, in order to resolve conflict, you chop somebody off, like you block them and you don't have to deal with it and you never have to be uncomfortable, like I mean, my kids all have grown up that way, you know and where it's like, oh guys, that's not how relationships work.
Speaker 3:You have to be able to do these things and have uncomfortable experiences, and that means for us, as a supervisor, we have to be willing to have uncomfortable experiences while maintaining safety and stability, which I think it's easy to want to cut that off Right and be like, oh, you make me so uncomfortable or this is such a big headache or I don't know how to reach you and connect to you. You know, like I think that that's a really valid experience that a lot of supervisors are having right now too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely there is there, there are generations right within our, within our field. Um, you know, I know in supervision consultation that I do, now we, we talk a lot about those that that went through school during covid and, like it's, they had just a different education and experience than than we did. Right, like I've mentioned before another on other episodes, like I'm, I'm old enough to say, like, when I went to grad school it was still very much. You check yourself at the door, you were a blank slate, you do not have a personality, you do not have a life outside of this office, right, and we've come so far and we'll continue to go right with technology advancements and information advancements which, again, I think, claire, this is such important work and I don't know what came to you and called to you to do this work and this research, but I think it's so important because it's not being talked about Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And, yeah, you know, honestly, coming to this was because of my experiences as being a supervisor and like themes came up that I expected, just because attachment theory is like my orientation of how I see the world.
Speaker 3:But I was, you know, it was interesting and I was grateful. I'm grateful for my supervisor, right, my dissertation chair, you know, because originally I'm like, oh, here's all these themes that are coming up, and he's like you're looking at this from the lens of a supervisor. Go back to the research and look to the story for the person, like your job is to be talking about their experiences, not what your experience of their experiences, which how often do we get caught up in that becomes our truth, right, like, well, my experience of your experience as what is happening. So this is where, like mismatch can happen and these attachment ruptures and supervision can happen so easily too, you know, and and so for him to be kind of like, point me in some very grateful, but you know it's, it's a piece of humble pie to be like, oh, my little friend, you're looking at this in a totally different lens than what you're supposed to be doing right now.
Speaker 1:You know, and two weeks you just did we're going to have to redo them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, pretty much that's what it was, but I was so grateful for that because I was reading everything through the lens of a supervisor and through a therapist because like that's, that's my job, like that's what I do, you know.
Speaker 3:And so going back to being like trying kind of resettling that researcher hat it, like it was amazing the shift that could happen, and like I stopped getting in my own way, you know, and it made me think about, you know, my role as a supervisor how often this probably happens and I'm not aware of it. Sure, sure, you know. And how often maybe these little ruptures are occurring and we're not aware of it or it's easy to brush it off of like oh, I was just having a bad day and not coming back to do the repair of, hey, I'm so sorry I was late, you know, I'm I'm so sorry we had this, you know, technology glitch, I, you know, like going back and doing these little repairs, like we have to be modeling this with our supervisors too, because that's also how we create security and attachment and it's easy to kind of blow off the little things because you're focused on the big things or what you think is the most important thing instead of what's actually there under the surface.
Speaker 2:Because even in those statements, I was like oh my God, from a cultural perspective, you're talking about gaslighting microaggressions. I'm like, this doesn't matter, what are you talking about? Um. But then, like, since you started this episode, I'm like, oh claire, what are you gonna do about leadership? Then, what is it that you're working on? Because you're absolutely right, we don't have it, um, not in any supervision training, because even as, uh, I think Maria and I were both AMFT approved supervisors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I'm not an AMFT, but it's approved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say like, yeah, right, so that's at least 18 months that you're reading you're writing.
Speaker 1:It felt like a mini dissertation. It was.
Speaker 3:That's what it was considered. Mine wasn't anything near to that. In Utah we have a little lower standards of what you have to be, but yes, I know it's like that. But that supervision experience is way different than doing like a six hour CEU course of like you can be a supervisor now.
Speaker 2:Like that's cute when I hear that I was like, well, that's so cute, supervisor. Now, like that's cute when I hear that I was like, well, that's so cute. Um, for all of you who are not seeing me, because you guys are listening to us, um, I tend to use my hands and my face a lot because I was like, oh, that is so cute. Okay, uh, call me when you have the reality check. Um, but even when we take the training, then later we have to go do refreshers. We're not off the hook, um, and and usually is a weekend where we have to go keep our lives again and remember the trauma of reviewing all of that stuff. So, welcome, claire, to that nightmare. Um, we cannot wait for you to tell us about your refresher.
Speaker 3:But enjoyable. I am sorry there's like some awesome trainers in Utah that just make it actually kind of fun.
Speaker 2:Okay, we're not gonna hate you at this point. But okay, next time we'll go to Utah. As you're talking, I'm like, wow, what a great opportunity that you're going to have to go and take our supervision training and infuse the attachment lens Right and actually talk, as Brené Brown is talking about leadership, not from a task management, not from a micromanagement, which is what associations are doing, but to combining right brain and heart. Yeah, I cannot wait to see what you're going to create here.
Speaker 3:It's kind of fun to like yeah, I'm like there's been some things percolating, but first I need to just graduate before I start anything else.
Speaker 1:But one bite at a time. One bite at a time.
Speaker 3:Exactly, but no, it is, and like the thought of, you know, being able to just shed some light on this, because we don't talk about this stuff, you know, and we don't talk about the importance of this in in the relationship and why relationship matters, and so I think that you know this is, it's a, it's a next chapter. You know it's going to be fun to see kind of like where, the, where we start growing this, how I start growing this.
Speaker 1:I think it's so powerful that what was true in early childhood doesn't mean it will always be true for you because that had been the message for so long. Right, oh, that was your childhood. Well, this is as good as it gets Buckle up right, and so being able to have to be able to shift that message, both in the mental health world and in attachment in general, but also, you know, in pivoting that towards supervisees and mentors and being able to be like I understand that that has been your story to date.
Speaker 2:There's still hope that change can happen and it can be better, it can be different. Yeah, kudos, kudos Again, claire, like one. Thank you for being here too. I am so grateful that you're talking about this, because every association is going to have to send you requests after you graduate, like trainings, because we do need them. So I'm wondering, as we're closing um for today's episode, what would be one thing that, what wisdom nugget that you want to share with supervisors who are listening today?
Speaker 3:I think, show up, like with your heart, and and allow for a genuine relationship to be developed, like I think a lot of people are afraid of doing that, um, I think a lot of humans are afraid of doing that or feel that like, oh, because I'm you know, I'm your boss up here, I'm your supervisor. It's not appropriate to have a friendship or, you know, whatever the rules and boundaries may be, and relationship, though, can be specific to that supervisee supervisor relationship, you know. And so I think the first part that that happens is we're not blank slates, like you have to come up in all of your authentic messiness and wonderful bits and pieces and the rough edges and all of the things that make us all human, but show up, like, let them see you in your humanness so that you can see them, and I think you will walk away from this feeling so much more fulfilled when you can have that relationship yourself as a supervisor. Like. There is an interesting thread like what should I give? What's a gift? I should give my supervisor Like on Facebook a few days ago, you know, and there's people that are like, hawking their wares and like, oh, buy this, buy this, buy this, and I'm like you, like you're the gift, like just who you are, as you are, like and your growth and development, like that's the gift.
Speaker 3:And I think that when we can remember that, like that's what keeps us all in the field is these moments of connection. You know, and we're kind of laughing at a training I was speaking at over the weekend and somebody asked, like how many people do you think you've supervised in Utah? I'm like, oh my gosh, in like 20 something years, I have no idea, like no idea. Um, it'd be, you know, kind of fun to like think back and like try to figure this out. But you know, it's like we, each of us, have an opportunity to help this next up-and-coming generation to do better and be better and and help the world. I mean, that's why we're all in this, right, yeah again, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for your wisdom, um, thank you for showing up and thank you for even giving us a different model, which is exactly what you're doing when it comes to mentorship and supervision. Uh, maria, anything else do you want to add before we go?
Speaker 1:I mean, just what a gift, claire, you are, the gift um. I love that you were able to share um. But yeah, I think you know the metaphors of the lantern I always refer to as like we're planting seeds that we never may see fully bloom and we have to trust that they're they're doing it. But but we have to. We have to do our stuff to plant the seed too. Um, we have to. We have to do our stuff so that we can show up authentically, um, but yeah, what a, what a gift you are and continue to be to our field. So thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 2:That's so sweet For our listeners who are out there. We will include Claire's information in our podcast so you can reach out if you are lucky enough and privileged enough to get a spot for consultations with her. But if not, please go to her trainings so we will include her website so you can see when she's doing training, so that you can go and borrow some of that greatness from her. Until next time, please take care. Bye.
Speaker 3:Bye, thank you.
