A Hero's Welcome Podcast

Beyond Burnout: Discovering Your Authentic Professional Self with Madison Duran

• Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S & Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S • Season 2

Share episode

Send us a text

Professional identity formation is a crucial yet often overlooked process for preventing burnout and achieving fulfillment in the mental health field.

  • Burnout symptoms closely mirror those of an identity crisis
  • Many clinicians experience burnout within just 2-5 years of practice
  • Professional identity involves aligning personal values with professional work
  • Transitioning from training to practice requires developing your voice
  • Navigating insurance systems often creates value conflicts
  • Mixed messages from employers create professional confusion
  • Finding role models helps shape your professional identity
  • A strong professional identity acts as a GPS for career decisions
  • Professional identity formation is an ongoing process, not a destination
  • Diversity in therapeutic approaches strengthens the field

If you're feeling lost or questioning your career choice, remember there is a place for you in this field, even if you have to create it yourself. Take time to explore your values and find the environments that support your authentic professional self.


A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Maria:

Welcome back listeners. We have a very exciting episode today. Today, liliana, we're going to talk about professional identity formation.

Liliana:

Such a grown-up discussion this morning. Is it Friday? Is it Monday? What's happening today?

Maria:

We're going to pretend to be adults for a moment. I know that's a stretch for those of you that know us, but we're going to try adult for a moment.

Liliana:

I know that's a stretch for those of you that know us, but we're going to try and for that topic we're going to have our special guest, maddie.

Liliana:

Maddie, how do you want?

Liliana:

to introduce yourself to our listeners.

Madi:

Hi, yeah, my name is Maddie Duran. I work and live in Las Cruces, New Mexico. I am a licensed clinical social worker, a pending registered behavior I'm sorry a pending registered play therapist and a pending EMDR certified therapist. So many pending credentials.

Liliana:

Come on, associations, get your shit together.

Maria:

Get on it. Get on it. She's worked so hard.

Liliana:

Well, thank you for being here and thank you for coming to discuss this huge topic, which is as we were talking about it. Right when you said professional identity formation, is this evolution that we don't tend to think about when we go to school, when we say I want to be a mental health therapist, whatever credential that is, and then how that is just the foundation, is almost like I gave birth to you. Now, what are you going to do? And that's what you're going to talk to us about?

Madi:

Yeah, so I came across the concept of professional identity formation when actually researching burnout prevention. I, through my own professional identity formation, went through a very heavy time of deep burnout and coming through the other side of that. And coming through the other side of that. My big passion now is how do we prevent that from happening again, both for myself and for other people? And one of the most interesting things that I found, at least in my opinion, when researching burnout, was that the symptoms of burnout heavily replicate the symptoms of an identity crisis. Oh, wow, yeah. And so when people are in burnout, a lot of times what we see is questioning why am I here? What am I doing? Does?

Maria:

this mean anything.

Madi:

People oftentimes will start fantasizing about other careers or other lives. Or did I make a mistake choosing this career? Am I not meant to be here? Bleeds into personal relationships as well, and a lot of people start questioning who?

Maria:

they are. Yeah, I think that's I mean Liliana as supervisor. That's something that we see all the time, with those that are edging their way. Getting a little crispy around the edges is what I like to say. Right, edging their way to burnout. And, maddie, I've had the pleasure of being able to like know you and work really closely with you. You started experiencing burnout fairly early in your licensure career.

Madi:

Absolutely yeah. So I started out in a high stress environment and I lasted about two years and I was like that's it I can. I remember the exact moment when I realized I can't do this anymore, like this is not it. And I was. I did everything except sign papers to start a whole new career. I had the papers, I was ready to go, everything was set in stone and I was out because I knew I couldn't live that way anymore. And I was talking to other people in a similar environment and that was a similar timeline. Was this two to five years that people were done and that was their cap? And that's really scary. To have gotten two degrees know, I wanted to do this for a long time and then get two years in and go oh wait, I can't do this. Not one more second, can I do this? That's a very unsettling feeling.

Liliana:

So for our listeners, like how many of you are automatically saying like, yes, yes, yes, that sounded like something else, but yes, like that is me right. Which is one I want you to know that you're not alone. As supervisors, we tend to hear this. Two, there was the research done during COVID, I think it came out that most of us, the new generations, are going to be switching careers three to five times in their lifetime, which I'm like how are they affording degrees? So they were not talking necessarily about degrees, but that's what they were saying.

Liliana:

And then, too, as you were talking about how many of you have gone through this already when, when you say you know we go to, we finish our master's program, like how many of you are going to be like, yes, sister, how many of us finish our master's program?

Liliana:

Then they tell you an internship, like you have to pay your dues, you're working to pay your bills, and then you're doing this last push to get your degree and you're already coming out of the school system exhausted, right? And for all of you who are not seeing, just when you know that the three of us are like nodding yes, yes. And for all of you who are not seeing, just when you know that the three of us are like nodding yes, yes, and then you go. However you call it in your state or country, you go, get out of, you're less than because you don't have this licensure yet and therefore they give you insane hours, insane cases, because you know you have to pay your dues and you have to acquire live experience. How will you know? And when you're describing two to five years of burnout, I was like that sounds about right. You get your license and you are exhausted.

Maria:

Yeah.

Madi:

And life doesn't slow down too outside of that, no, and you?

Liliana:

still have to pay your bills. And then, when we go in our mental health field and they tell us like well, what kind of self-care are you doing? One besides flipping them off, I'm wondering, wondering, like, how are you taking care of you? Right, because self-care also has been sold. The idea of you have to spend money for self-care and you have to pay bills, and you have to pay student loans, and you have to go to work, and if you're a contractor, like if you are an, an employee, like it's all these things that come with it.

Maria:

so, um, maddie, when you're like hey, we go to an identity crisis, that sounds about right right, yeah, absolutely, and it and it almost feels like if, if you were able to lean into this formation. That is self-care. So you kind of mean, you kind of fell into this for yourself, but what are you finding? What are you wanting other clinicians to know so that they can maybe take some of these steps?

Madi:

Absolutely yeah, I. The first thing is that professional identity formation is a very fancy word, like you mentioned of. Oh, we're going to talk about very adult concepts today, which, yes, however, it is not a complex concept, it is not something we need to overthink. It is deeply personal and it's not a point that we suddenly get to and we're like yep.

Madi:

I have formed my own professional identity Check. It is a process that spans your entire career. It's the same way in our own personal lives and our personal identity, when we never stop changing and growing and shifting, changing and growing and shifting. So the idea is exploring your own personal values and how they align or conflict with your professional values in your professional setting. And so that sounds simple. It's a lot harder to do in actual practice because when I first heard that, I was like what, yeah, and it reminded me of Maria. Actually, when you showed me my office for the very first time after switching over to working at A New Hope, I remember you asking me what I thought of the color of the walls, and I remember thinking I don't know what I think because I didn't know I could ever have an opinion like that.

Maria:

Yeah.

Madi:

At my previous job, I couldn't have an opinion on anything. That wasn't a privilege or a freedom I had. And then something as simple as the wall color just stopped me in my tracks and I was like, oh my gosh, I don't even know. Solid year, I think, to fully come down and fully explore what was actually important to me, especially in a job environment. It took me a lot of trial and error and again I had the privilege of being able to trial and error what worked for me. But, yeah, it took a full year for me to be able to realize what's important to me in a job, what works for my life, what I'm willing to put up with because the fact is, this field is hard and it is stressful and it is overwhelming, and what parts of that can I put up with or handle or have the capacity to take on, and what can I not take on. And so all of that contributed to me starting to build an understanding of who I am in this field.

Liliana:

Yeah, wow, yeah. So for all of you who are listening right like, think about this what are the values either personal and professional and how they're aligning or conflicting. So it's an invitation actually of that wisdom that we all have in regards to what works for me and how am I going to be in community, in this professional community, without invalidating my personal values, so that I can develop this voice not only personally but professionally.

Maria:

And Maddie, I know this journey started for you before, but I'm thinking this is so super relevant right now in our field and specifically in our country, in our profession, where we're seeing a lot of pushback and boxing and demands. I'm wondering if there are like examples that come to mind of like here is where they might clash and here is where they might align, so that people can have a feel for, like what does this actually look like? If I'm going to go back through, if I sit down today and think about where I'm working and what the work I'm doing, how do I know?

Madi:

Yeah, that's a great question, and one thing that, especially when looking at values, I feel like has helped me is literally Googling a list of values, because it's so hard to name them, especially in ourselves. Sometimes it's so hard to even come up like have a starting block of where to go, um, and so that would be my first step is to just encourage people to look at a list of values, see what resonates with you first, and one thing to note on this is there will never be in the system that we exist in you, there will never be an environment that aligns 100% with all of our values.

Madi:

When we work in a medical system, when we're navigating insurance companies, when we are navigating fluctuating government policies and laws and voices, we're never going to be an environment that 100% aligns.

Liliana:

Let it rain, sister, go on.

Madi:

Which there's, at least for me. There's a grief in that that is. That's a heavy thought of like. There will never be an environment that 100% aligns. However, we can find the places that do, and we can find the places that do fill our cups in ways in which we can feel like we belong and we are supported and support other people as well. So one of my first examples of how values don't align is, for example, if you are navigating insurance companies I think that's a very common challenge that a lot of our field deals with is that insurance companies' values are money and that's really the bottom line.

Madi:

And, quite frankly, I didn't get into social work for the money and the fame, so that is not one of my number one values Shocker, I know.

Maria:

Bursting bubbles this morning, Maddie Bursting bubbles.

Madi:

that's the reality, though it's like. Of course, I need money to pay my bills. However, that's not my number one priority in my job, where I'm looking at my client in the face and I'm thinking how do I, how do I navigate? Getting this client what they need, giving them the support and the space that they deserve, while also recognizing their insurance company has requirements that must be met in order for them not to end up with a bill.

Liliana:

Wow. So, even like in that piece, you just described things that we don't think about when we graduate and when we go to work. Right, we choose the path either social work systems, what do we call LPCs what are they known for? By the way, I was like, oh my God, they're lost. They're the lost child LPC. We love you, but you're the lost child. What is it you've done for? Anyways? That's another episode. However, as you're saying that, I was like what was the class that helped us sort this out?

Liliana:

Which is, what setting are you choosing to work with? That? It will highlight those values of this path. They got you ignited into this work, where now we know that we're not making money or we're not going to be famous. And then, two, in that setting, what is their values in regards to maintaining, you know, being sustainable? So, if they work with insurances, understanding the values of insurances is not the value of the setting, the system that you're choosing to align with and work with and make connections with, right, like, how do we start having those conversations, either in school settings or, in this case, for you, maddie, which is like, oh, it took me a year just to start sorting things out because it was so overwhelming not having a voice, and coming to a place was asking me to have a voice and I have to develop that. It took me a year to develop some sort of sound.

Madi:

Oh yeah, and especially when I think so. We tend to be very timid in this field, especially early on, where we're here to help, we're here to make people feel good. And we smile when we say it. That's just the feeling that we give of. Oh, you're the therapist, and I mean social work doesn't tend to have that same ring, if I'm being honest. But you play with kids all day, or whatever it is.

Liliana:

That's the whole thing that we can talk about. We don't play with kids. I see why.

Madi:

Why we think about it that way yeah, and how many times do we get, oh you're, you're a saint for doing that work, or, um, you you're. It takes a very special kind of person. I could never do that. It's a calling.

Maria:

But then if you're in any of the Facebook or social media groups, like there are diverse values and voices and opinions about how things quote unquote should be done and I think it is important that people find their own first and stay true to that right. Because we did talk about, like, the larger systems, they're constantly changing. I know in our state every three years the Medicaid contracts go up, the rules all change, the providers all change, like there's constant change in our field from the higher organizations.

Liliana:

Yeah.

Maria:

And what it sounds like, Maddie, is what you're saying is you can better navigate all of that when you've identified and are true to your own values.

Madi:

Yeah, of course. And how often are we helping clients do that? I mean, all systems shift and change and life is unpredictable, and we are are work alongside clients as they are finding their own inner compass, and so oftentimes we forget about our own, especially in a field that, um, that focuses so heavily on serving other people, which is a wonderful, beautiful goal, but then we tend to forget about ourselves when in reality our own identity is the only thing that we have true control over and that we can rest in confidently, because the rest of the world, who knows?

Liliana:

So, for all of you who are listening, like, what is it that is resonating with you? Right, because you go to a system and they sell you the idea of being a support system for others, but they tell you that you don't exist. Yeah, that you're a blank template for the clients who come in. Right? And? And actually, what you are proposing, maddie and others are proposing, is that actually? No, you do have to have an identity. It's not just the blank identity as a professional, but also what is the human in you. What are your values, either personal and professionally, how they show up in the room in order to help, in order to be at service, but not be a floor mat.

Maria:

Yeah, so if they Google and they get a list and they go through and they choose a handful of values that matter to them and are at the top of their list, what then? I mean, besides clearly going to a training that is hosted by Maddie so that you can do this work, but like what next? What else did you have to do?

Madi:

And honestly spent a lot of time just thinking what felt in alignment, what didn't, why it was a lot of just pondering um, because, for example, sometimes we will get mixed messages which become very confusing. Um like in early on in my career, I got a lot of do whatever you need to do, we're for you, even in the height of a genuine, like family crisis. Um, take all the time you need. Oh, by the way, here's 50 more clients.

Liliana:

I'm sorry.

Madi:

So, which was exactly my experience, and so going back through those experiences that have felt incongruent and have felt like they've rattled you and shaken your concept of what you're doing, and figuring out why was the big thing for me, and for me, experiencing a lot of that incongruence is the thing that felt the most unsettling, because I'd be getting one message, but then, at the same time, I'd be getting a completely different message, and it made me question me, when in reality, it had nothing to do with me. Which?

Madi:

is usually the case, but when you're in the moment, when you're especially when you're young in the field and you're trying to figure out so many things at one time, it does make you question yourself because you assume, oh, it must be me, because I don't know. I haven't been doing this very long, and so getting an awareness of what is important to you, exploring times where it's felt congruent and when it's felt incongruent, and diving into why, and then ultimately kind of looking towards the future of okay, but what do I want to look like, how do I want to practice? What kind of attitudes or boundaries or communication do I want to have as a professional? One thing I really encourage, too, is to look for role models, because we don't have a template and I'll you'll never be exactly like your role model, but you can learn from the people around you, based off of your own values, of who, who aligns with you, yeah, who you feel safe and supported by yeah.

Liliana:

I love that mm-hmm. And even if you're a seasoned therapist right when you grew up with, the template of this is how we do things. I feel like sometimes they have a hard time changing that mindset because, like I, don't have permission to do this.

Liliana:

It's always been done this way. It's always been. Yeah, that is the line, exactly right. This is how we do things. It has always been, and this is the checkboxes and so on and so forth, and even like, within that professional level, the identity formation which is then we get out, then we're dealing with all of the systems that you just mentioned, and then we also have, like, and there's this model you have to go get trained and certified and you have this model now and no, this is not acceptable, but this one is. It's so confusing because it seems like we're teenagers in our field and we were never allowed to grow up. We get to question everything that we know, but we look up to our old systems and they're telling us you have to get trained on this, not this. No, don't do this Like it's almost like we sign up oh my god, am I having a? What happened here? But we sign up to be teenagers for the rest of our lives but maddie's telling us we don't have to but we don't have to.

Madi:

Yeah, I think there's a almost an expectation that we stay that way too. Yes, and that and let's be honest, that's a power dynamic. Yes, you just named it. Thank you that, l, that is an element of control, that that keeps us at a certain level. Yes, and one of the things that has stood out to me also when doing this research is Lisa Dion actually mentioned on this podcast that her experience of bringing something new to a system is that it's violently opposed. Yes, and so when there is a power dynamic and you start to fight back or change or shift or introduce a new idea, or start to set boundaries differently or speak up that this isn't the way this needs to be, there is pushback, and in a lot of ways, that is the first step to change, but it is heavy and we need to be able to be strong and confident within ourselves in order to withstand that pushback, in order to make it through.

Liliana:

So think about that image, right, if we propose that we've been set up to be teenagers all the time and what you're proposing is like actually, that's where we can change those dynamics. Do you remember when you were five years old and you walk out with whatever dress up, because you look cute, because that's all you saw and you were in power? And then you have that parent that said, like that's right, girl, you go with it. They knew you were not going to walk far because the way that you were dressed up, but you were so confident in that moment and that's what we want.

Liliana:

So I love that you even mentioned, like what are the mentors? If you have access to them or not, if you have access to them or not. If you have access to them, like you mentioned, because in a podcast episode they were mentioned. I think that's what we need, right, like we're the fortunate ones that when we wake up and we start seeing what are the role models in our field, that they're shaking things off, that they're naming things for us, that they're creating a different pathway, not because they want you to follow it, but because they're creating a pathway of like go create your own. That's what we need.

Maria:

Well, I think that's the takeaway, right, like that's. That's the call to action is not just individuals, but if you're in a position of leadership or in these larger organizations, like it's on you, to what, start questioning this, start supporting this. Like, maddie, if you had your magic wand, what would that? What would that look like?

Madi:

Oh man, what I would do with that magic wand that everybody tends to think you have sometimes, and I, I think, creating this culture of we're we're not cookie cutter. I think that is ultimately the thing that would lead to everything else If people get the opportunity to not only explore who they are professionally, but also be supported in the fact that it's going to look different than me. Yeah, no, two therapists are going to navigate a situation exactly the same way, and that's okay. We need that diversity.

Madi:

It's deeply, deeply important, and I think sometimes what happens is if a, if a clinician comes up and doesn't spend time forming their own professional identity, becoming in tune with who they are and being able to rest in the confidence that I am competent, I don't know everything, but I can do my job well and I can learn and grow, and so on and so forth, and then they become supervisory roles. It creates a lot of potential for a lack of confidence, insecurity, and then that trickles down, and then a lot of times, it can feel threatening or it can feel uncomfortable of, oh wait, I'm supervising this person, but they do something completely different than me, and that can be extremely uncomfortable. And so, in order to stop that cycle. I would really hope that people spend time in their own pondering, in their own work, exploring what's important to them in order to gain that confidence, gain that security in themselves, because it's going to be tested, and then that is a gift that they can pass on to other people as well.

Liliana:

I just smiled when you said that, because I feel like Maria and I we're both LMFTs, right, but we're so different the way that we talk. But anytime that I get a supervisor and they tell me I do this, and I'll be like putting a smile, like tell me more, I did not know that I could do that, that even like I want to learn from you, like tell me, but that's the idea, right, that we are being um exposed to, thanks to you guys, this new generation that is coming out. We are, we are the in between. We're like the middle of that sandwich, um, and, and we're like, oh, things can be different and I'm here for the ride, right, but not everyone is going through this because not everyone has the same resources.

Liliana:

But I love that you're mentioning what we're not cookie cutters. We went to our master's program with the idea that we all have to be the same. We go and study models that tell us speak like this. So everyone is working to create cookie cutters and actually, what helped us in our professional identity formation is that being different. Diversity, as you mentioned, is what helped us breathe, help us not go into burnout, help us be in this field for a longer period of time, being able to pay it forward, being able to supervise, being able to do all these things that you are mentioning here.

Madi:

Yeah, yeah. And the idea is, too, that having a strong sense of your professional identity does not mean you stay in the same place for your entire career. I think, too, that can sometimes come across as and now you're stuck, and that is not the case. This is not a chain that keeps you to whatever position you're in now. It's a guide, it's a map that you create that helps you make decisions of where do I belong? Is it time for me to move on?

Maria:

Should I get trained in that new?

Madi:

modality, because if it aligns and if I, if I want to and have the capacity and resources, wonderful. Or am I just interested in this because all the voices around me are telling me I should be?

Liliana:

yes, there you go. Yeah, so you're a gps, you're not just a map. And if you're ever like me in the gps, the gps is cussing at me all the time because it's rerouting.

Maria:

Recalculating.

Liliana:

Recalculating. So the invitation, what I'm hearing from you, maddie, is keep rerouting until you find your path, absolutely. And even when you find your path, you may have to reroute again because your values change as you are aging, which is not a bad thing, or as you're becoming more experienced in our professional settings, which is not a bad thing, or as you're becoming more experienced in our professional settings, which is not a bad thing, but you get to reroute in order to find yourself, and that is the idea, absolutely.

Madi:

Yeah, and in fact you need to reroute. That's a requirement of professional identity. Formation is to look around you and constantly reassess what is working and what is not.

Liliana:

Oh, I'm loving this conversation. What about you, Maria?

Maria:

Yes, maddie, what a gift. What a gift I mean. Just I know. I mean, if you've seen Maddie speak at all, you know that she's very passionate about this and this is your first touch point with Maddie. I really do hope you take a couple of minutes and Google a values list and sit down. You know, maybe it's you take your morning coffee and you sit with yourself for a minute and go what are the things right now for me that are at the top? But yeah, maddie, this is huge. This is huge. I think you've tapped into something that we need to continue talking about. We need to, not just from the bottom up, right from professionals, but from top down. Organizations need to hear this too and to have this consideration and this information.

Madi:

What a gift.

Maria:

You are Maddie.

Madi:

Well, thank you, I was born out of my own necessity, to be honest, and how many times does that also happen? And one thing I want to extend to is as someone who has been in a situation that has felt absolutely hopeless professionally and that I was going to throw my whole life into a loop. There is a place out there for you hopeless professionally and that I was going to throw my whole life into a loop there, there is a place out there for you. And even if you make it yourself, find your people yourself, if your role models are fictional characters, that's good enough and you can find it and it's out there.

Liliana:

Oh, what a nice way to close down. This episode was like, okay, I can grow up then. I'm not afraid I'm ready to be lunch on then, maddie, thank you. Thank you for speaking um, not only such a warm um from a warm place, of just inviting us to be curious when we don't have the answers. Google right, like then ask everyone around you what are your values when we don't have developed that voice yet. And the perfect example, even though you mentioned today it took me a year, it's okay. If it's a year, six months, five, like, it doesn't matter is can you attune to find your voice?

Madi:

Absolutely, and thank you guys for this platform to share this. This is a wonderful opportunity and I hope people are able to look into their own professional identity formation a little bit more now.

Liliana:

I love it Love this and I hope that, as Maria extended like that, you come back and we continue talking about this topic and we will include for our listeners, maddie's information in case you don't have to stalk her. You can just like go with the information that we're going to provide and go find her so that you can have find her trainings. We're so lucky to have you in our field. Thank you for being here this morning. No-transcript.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Madison Duran

Guest