The Therapist's Journey with Maria & Liliana

The secret evolution of therapists that nobody talks about in graduate school - from survival mode to seasoned professional, Maria and Liliana crack open the unspoken developmental journey that shapes our careers and lives as mental health professionals.

Remember that idealistic student who entered the field ready to change lives? Then reality hit - staggering student debt met with jobs (not careers) where you felt easily replaceable rather than valued. This episode compassionately maps the typical progression: freshly-licensed clinician in survival mode, licensed professional accumulating certifications, supervisor carrying tremendous liability, and eventually perhaps trainer or presenter sharing knowledge with others.

What makes this conversation truly revolutionary is the permission slip Maria and Liliana extend to every listener. You're allowed to change specialties. You're allowed to question your path. You're allowed to integrate your values, your understanding of social justice, and your life experiences into your professional identity. The days of therapists as "blank slates" are long gone - we recognize now that political, economic and social realities exist in the therapy room whether acknowledged or not.

Take a moment to appreciate how far you've come, assess whether your current position aligns with your values, and consider what might be next on your journey. Whether you're just starting out or decades into practice, remember that your professional evolution belongs to you - not to expectations, traditions, or economic necessities. Your next chapter awaits whenever you're ready to turn the page.

A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing the Evolution of Therapists
• 3:55 New Clinician Survival Mode
• 6:42 Finding Your Path Post-Licensure
• 9:58 The Supervision and Teaching Transition
• 13:38 Permission to Change and Grow
• 17:13 Embracing Your Authentic Journey

Transcript

Maria: 0:36

welcome back listeners. We've got a special little episode for you this morning. It's just me and my bestie Liliana that's me.

Liliana: 0:45

Chucho is sleeping because lately he wants to be a part of everything for everyone who's listening out here.

Maria: 0:52

Yeah, he just wants to be a part of it.

Liliana: 0:54

He wants to be a part of it by the way, no one can see it, but I just realized what I'm wearing. Yes, we're going to go with that.

Maria: 1:03

Liliana's got a great t-shirt. It says local legend Liliana. Anyone who's met you would definitely agree, definitely agree. So, liliana, you and I were chatting, yes, and then we decided, ooh, we need to hit record. Yes, we need to hit record.

Liliana: 1:25

Something's. I were chatting, yes, and then we decided, oh, we need to hit record. Yes, we need to hit record. Something's been coming up in supervision and consultation for both of us recently. Yes, so part of the conversations that we've been having when we talk in consultation or supervision with therapists is the evolution of therapists, right? So we're finding out the way that you and I talk about after, because we're work wives, that's what it is. So when we're like texting or calling each other, we're like have you noticed these patterns? And so let's name it. What do we mean by the evolution of therapists?

Maria: 1:53

Yeah, so I think there's we were talking about it in this kind of developmentally appropriate right, new, brand new clinicians getting out of school trying to find one, trying to survive. Right, when you get out of school and you get your prelim, your initial license, it is finding a job and learning to survive in this field and in this world. It's not an easy thing and we've also noticed that, depending on the setup, right out of school makes a big difference. If you're in a psychiatric hospital setting or a large organization where you're working 40 hours plus on call, that's a different life than those that find small group practices or smaller clinics that do more of a harmonious balance between life and work. Yes, right, so we get brand new clinicians out into the field trying to survive, but then also being hit with real life experiences that we don't.

Maria: 2:54

I mean we can't plan for everything or get exposed to everything during our schooling. That we don't. I mean we can't plan for everything or get exposed to everything during our schooling and, depending on your program, you get more or less of that, yeah, and so we get new clinicians who might have the book knowledge but not the experience yet, and it can feel very overwhelming for them to start in the field Once they kind of get their footing, liliana, what do we see?

Liliana: 3:19

next? Well, first of all, let's name that. When we go to our field, when we go to school, I love when you told me, like I went to school to choose a career and I was like, oh, I remember, and we walk out with jobs. That's so disappointing. It was so disappointing.

Maria: 3:36

Yes, yes, if you haven't heard my previous talk, I will not call it a rant. My previous talk on that dedicate my life and learning to, and then found myself in jobs where I was easily replaced, poorly managed, poorly supported, poorly funded, and it felt like we were in jobs instead of careers. And you know the difference between those two things is like am I replaceable versus am I a valued member of this professional community?

Liliana: 4:21

And how much in debt I got to have this career. That ended up being a job. Then I have to go to work to pay off, which that's another whole topic. But yeah, part of the conversation that we were having as we were talking about the evolution of therapists is that we finish our school. Of course we do internship. We finish our school and then we go and start working towards acquiring hours to get our licensure. So during that time we have to prove ourselves. So, master's degree working towards licensure, then you're like as soon as I get my license, I will feel liberated, I will have the ah, I know everything. Maria is laughing.

Maria: 5:07

Yes, you get blessed from the knowledge, gods.

Liliana: 5:11

And that didn't happen. And then you start thinking like so what's next? Because our field is not kind and it tells us that we have to keep doing always everything right. So then we start thinking about all these magical models, all these different paths that we can take certifications, credentials and we start taking on so many of them, which it is helpful, but it is insane, not only the amount of time that you have to give to do that, the amount of money that you have to pay off to do that, which it doesn't increase your pay either. There's something so weird here. But okay, let's just go with me. So, master's degree, pre-licensure, licensure, you get an hunting, you get all this knowledge and then you start going all these different paths like an octopus, like just trying to figure things out, and then at some point you're like the next step is becoming a supervisor, because why not? You have so much training in becoming a leader.

Maria: 6:17

Well, sometimes it's out of necessity, right. Sometimes you are, you know, and if you've attended our supervision talks or trainings, right. I've been very vocal about my experience as a supervisor. I was last therapist standing, so I got the job.

Maria: 6:32

I didn't ask for it. It was handed to me with no additional training or support or knowledge, not much more money and not a true understanding of my licensure being on the line. That's what supervision is right. Yeah, the liability that we take? Yeah, absolutely yeah. So you know, let's be honest, this evolution is necessary for many of us. Yes, providing on one-to-one client-based services and having our income based on that is very risky. It's very unsafe and it doesn't, and when we feel unsafe, we can't do our best work, like. We know this as clinicians, right, and so we do start looking, then, for other ways of income, other means of income, other ways to support ourselves so we can continue to do the one-to-one services that we want to do.

Liliana: 7:24

Yeah.

Maria: 7:25

And the next baby step seems to be become a supervisor Mm-hmm.

Liliana: 7:30

And what Maria and I have discussed, and if you have gone to our trainings, is that there's no proper training in becoming a supervisor, which is leadership. They give you training in regards to the model, but not the liability. Even when you tell me about ethics, which, if you have taken any of our trainings, we have said well, what kind of ethics are you taking? Because there's not even an understanding of that. So, again, just to keep naming it and keep building, if you're keeping track, you go from being a student to getting your master's, to being pre-licensure, to getting licensure to study whatever models they're telling you to take, and then supervision or vice versa, whatever comes first, and then you move to presenting. You start becoming a presenter or a trainer, right like an ad evolution absolutely and not for everybody, not for everybody, not everybody who enjoys teaching.

Maria: 8:32

Um, well, this is our podcast, so we can be honest. Not everybody should be teaching and we do find, you know, we've seen, especially recently, there's been a couple of individuals that we've seen in consultation that we're supporting and taking that next step into becoming a presenter, into sharing their knowledge, becoming a source for the field and our profession, and it's necessary, like we're going to need new information and new presenters because that's that next generation, right, we need to hear from them. They have great ideas, they have great innovations and it helps move those older thinking models out of the way, right.

Liliana: 9:26

Which we're not saying. The older thinking models are wrong, but there's adaptations that we need to do because we're not living in the same environments. That when those came up, they were needed, yeah Right. Also, there's no new model in psychotherapy. So you know, for all of you out there, like this is the evidence based, like stop it. There's so many things here and this is a new model, stop it. Or like you are copying from this model, stop it, yeah.

Maria: 10:04

Well, I think it's something that you and I have talked about, but I heard from Lisa Dion years and years and years ago that stuck with me was that there's no new information. There is new ways to use that information. Yes, right, and that is that adaptation part, that the information from our founding theories is valid. Yes, and we need to question its validity now, right, and we need to make adaptations to that, those models, to fit the world that we live in and the people that we serve. Now, there you go.

Liliana: 10:40

So look at that Not only we're talking about the evolution that happens or it needs to happen in our field, but also the individuals, the evolution of how we push our field to continue doing what we need to do. So part of the conversation with our consultees and supervisors is you don't have to Right, you don't have to do anything that doesn't call you when they come and say, like I want to be a supervisor, it's like that sounds amazing. Yeah, it will be great. And let's sit down and talk about the liability, the responsibility, and why are you being called to do this? Not because you have to justify it to me, but is it clear to you?

Maria: 11:22

yeah, well, I think it's. It's twofold right. We want to make sure people know that there's an option outside of one-to-one services. Once you have got that down and you are grounded in theory and practice, um, then other doors can open for you. If you're interested, if you are in love with doing one-to-one and that's serving you right now, continue to do that. Yes, and it's okay if you feel like, ooh, I'd like to do something a little different. Yes, liliana and I are making and finding others that are holding space, for how can we do this differently? How can we do this better? And a lot of that comes from new people wanting to share what works for them.

Liliana: 12:04

Yes. So even in that evolution, not only for our field that we tend to refuse and we will talk about it in another podcast but also the evolution of therapists in regards to our growth and the possibilities that we can do, and in that also can we name that it's okay for you to change specialties.

Maria: 12:27

Yes, yes. I think we not only need to name that, I think we need to celebrate that. I think so many of us right, especially when we're new and we're scared let's be really honest, it's scary. As a new clinician, we find something that fits and we hold on to that.

Liliana: 12:44

Yes.

Maria: 12:45

And we grow as clinicians with experience with the world that we're living in, with support and consultation and supervision, and perhaps through you know you talked about the octopus, like all the different credentialing options that are out there for you models to follow you're going to change as a person. You're going to go through life as a human and that might change your specialty, how you see change, how you see people. What fits for you in that moment? We should be allowed, and what Liliana and I want to do is give permission if you need it. You don't need it from us, but we're going to give it to you anyway. You can change your path at any point. We believe that for our clients, because that's what we do so as supervisors and as consultants. We believe that for our field and our providers as well. Right, you can at any time pause and go. Oh, I don't know that this fits for me anymore and I would like to do something different, so just take that in, you're allowed to make a different choice at any time.

Liliana: 14:00

I wish all of you can see Maria's faces as she's naming and celebrating all that for you, right? Either because you're aging Hello, my niece does not respond, the same, I cannot keep chasing kiddos or because of medical trauma yeah, no, it's not sexy when you have to be running with the oxygen.

Maria: 14:25

Right and the world that we're living in, right, right and the world that we're living in, right, our values now are so in the room with us. Right, liliana and I have talked that. You know we age ourselves. When we went to school, right, like I, my, I have ingrained in my brain a moment where my supervisor told me right before a session Maria, outside of that room does not exist.

Maria: 14:48

You are a blank slate. You're going to right and we've come so far, so far from that, so much so that what's happening politically, social justice, wise, economically even, is showing up in our room and that's going to give you pause and perhaps you're going to need to do something different for yourself and for your clients. Right, we've, I know, for ourselves and my own, you know, my own group, we have made our values very clear, um, and we stand behind them. Now, where I love you, dr Barbara Frankel, and I know that if you knew that that stuff was up and grounding values, I know you would support it and you would also tell me it doesn't need to be in a therapy room, it does, it's already here.

Liliana: 15:37

Yeah. So for all of you, part of the evolution of you as a therapist is, you know, taking in and integrating not only what you are learning in regards to models, but what you're learning in regards to neurobiology, what you're learning in regards to social justice, what you're learning about your own evolution as a person, your values. How is that changing, your priorities, how is that changing? And then make an informed decision of what's going to work for you, not because what is required of you, but because what's going to work for you.

Maria: 16:14

You, as an individual, spend a lot of time and money, as we mentioned earlier, for you to do what is needed for the career that you chose, not for the job that is being dictated to you that you chose, not for the job that is being dictated to you, yeah, so yeah, we talked about the evolution of a therapist and it's multifaceted, as most things are, because we deal with messy human lives, right.

Maria: 16:39

So, wherever you are developmentally in your career, one take stock and, like, look back at where you came from and where you are now and appreciate the work that you've done, because we don't get enough of that. Take a moment to pause to make sure that where you're at is where you want to be, and then perhaps look at what might be next for you. Maybe it is supervision, maybe it is a credential, maybe it is becoming a trainer and know that there are those in the field who would love to support you in achieving those goals. And if you don't, if this is too much, save this episode and come back to it when you are ready to take that leap and look at what might be next for you.

Liliana: 17:23

I love that. I actually do love that. Yeah, I don't want to add anything. I was like, yes, yeah. When I had anything, I was like yes, yeah.

Maria: 17:31

Give yourself permission, right? Yes, absolutely Just giving yourself permission. This episode is a kick in the pants and a hug all at the same time.

Liliana: 17:40

Yeah, yeah, these two mama bears are just like giving you information you get to decide what works for you. Mama bears are just like giving you information you get to decide what works for you. We're just naming what was not named for us, and now we're witnessing as leaders in our community, with the responsibility that carries and, in that responsibility, deciding can we name this for others, so that you get to decide what's going to work for you Not for me, not for Maria, but for you.

Maria: 18:09

Yeah, so another welcome to the Heroes Welcome podcast, because this is what this podcast is for. We want to talk about the things that haven't been named but are talked about in the corners of those rooms. And, yeah, you can take what lands for you and leave the rest.

Liliana: 18:29

Until next time. Till then, Bye guys.