A Hero's Welcome Podcast

Using D&D as a Healing Tool with Erika Walker

• Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S & Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S • Season 2

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Erika brings Dungeons & Dragons into therapy sessions, creating transformative healing experiences for clients through role-playing games and character development.

• Using D&D with clients to build characters and create new therapy modalities
• Personal journey with D&D helping develop real-world skills like confrontation
• Client's story of choosing friendship over combat reveals therapeutic needs
• Facing resistance from traditional play therapy circles despite proven effectiveness
• Creating accessible D&D sand tray therapy tools for therapists with no gaming experience
• Challenging therapy systems that reject innovation they don't understand
• Advocating for evolution in play therapy to meet clients where they are

Try incorporating elements of role-playing games into your work with clients. Consider how games provide narrative frameworks that enable clients to express their needs and process emotions in ways that traditional therapy might not reach.


A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Maria:

Welcome back listeners to another episode of a Heroes Welcome podcast. I'm so excited. Today I have my lovely co-host with me.

Liliana:

I thought that you were going to talk about Erica, right? And I was like, oh my God, me too. I'm here, liliana Bela. I am the beautiful co-host, as Maria introduced me, and we're here with a special guest. Erica, how do you want to introduce yourself to our audience?

Erika:

I'm Erica and I'm a big fat nerd and I feel like that social worker and a registered play therapist supervisor and advanced certified in Adlerian play therapy. Wow, and and yeah, and I'm a big geek and like I love that about myself and I embrace it and yeah, and what's not to embrace?

Liliana:

Excuse me, I think that's the best credential right. Yes, so, erica, what are we talking about this morning? What are we learning from you this morning?

Erika:

Well, I think one thing unique that I do and not that I'm the only one that does it, because I know I'm not but I of like Dungeons and Dragons with clients, whether that's building a character and seeing, like, okay, what can we get out of this character, how can we use this character? Or, you know, creating a whole new modality to experience therapy through Dungeons and Dragons. You know it's I just I love the game. I kind of like I live my life in the game. I think in terms of Dungeons and Dragons. A lot of times it's very weird for me at like I'll be like thinking about my or going through my day and something will happen. I'm like I failed a dex check right there or something, and like I just I think in Dungeons and Dragons and so when I can incorporate it into things, I get really excited.

Liliana:

I'm excited just seeing your faces. You're describing this.

Maria:

I love it. So, Liliana, do you have any experience with D&D Dungeons Dragons? I don't Okay.

Liliana:

I'm a virgin in this topic, okay.

Maria:

I know.

Liliana:

Erica's like.

Maria:

I'll take you here. We'll take good care of you, liliana. Thank you, because I want to share, because I also one of the things that I I mean, I adore erica. This is not a surprise to anybody, I hope, um, but erica is one idol for me. Who?

Maria:

Because when I, when I started my dungeon dragons journey, it was high school, so it was a long time ago. I know, high school, so it was a long time ago. I know I look pretty, but it was a long time ago. It was in the time where, you know, dungeons and Dragons was not really popular. It was the outcast group.

Maria:

I was allowed to play sometimes, but my character was dictated by the group because I was the only female right Like, females were still not really the majority of players not the majority of players, I don't think but we were not common players and when we were, we were helpers or healers and that was our role.

Maria:

My experience is like that's if you want to play, that's what you have to do. So it wasn't until much later in my adult life that I started like tiptoeing back into it, because that experience was just so rough. And Erica is someone who just embodies D&D and being a geek and being a nerd and it just radiates from her in a way that I think is it's so therapeutic and healing to be around that when she was like, oh yeah, I do this stuff in my practice, I was like, of course you do, of course you do. I couldn't imagine you doing therapy in any other way, and I have to recognize that that's not always easy. Being a geek, being a nerd, doing D&D and alternative quote unquote, alternative things in therapy sessions is not still widely accepted or an easy place to be.

Liliana:

I think I love that right, which is how associations or how our field. Let's start with our field. It's not ready for alternative therapy. They keep thinking of this is the only way to do therapy, as if we're all the same, have the same needs, have the same gender, have the same abilities or disabilities, have the same barriers. This idea that this model works with everyone and for everyone is just a fantasy. Yes, right. So I love that you're using either the images that you bring in, the language that you're bringing in, because I assume I'm making the assumption that clients feel connected to this because they're integrating constantly as they're working, and then you're bringing this. It's this beautiful integration that I'm picturing that is happening for them.

Erika:

Yes, and that's kind of how it started for me, like how I decided like, hey, this has got some therapeutic value. Yeah, um, I was playing in my own campaign. So like I didn't start playing D&D until 2016. I had never heard of it, like I didn't know anything about it, and one of my husband's um friends from like growing up, who he's still connected to, said, hey, hey, do you guys want to play D&D? And I was like what? I have no idea what this is. And so he, he told us about it. I was like, yeah, we can give it a try.

Erika:

And so we started our campaign two weeks after Alan Rickman died. And the reason that's important was because, like that was very impactful for me, was because like that was very impactful for me. And so, like my character, her name was Alana and the town that she grew up in was Rickmana and everything about her was tied to him somehow, and it ended up being just this whole thing. But I would have to look back at my notes and my my notebook. So our campaign that we played, our story that we played, was five and a half years long. So I got to, I got to embody this character fairly consistently every other weekend, for I mean, we usually started about one o'clock in the afternoon and we would play sometimes until midnight. Yeah, so every other weekend I got to step into this person.

Liliana:

Yeah.

Erika:

Every for about five and a half years, and I was our note taker. So, like, my binder is like, you know what is that? About three inches is like that. You know what is that about three inches like it's, it's pretty big.

Erika:

Um, so I would say, probably a couple of years, two to three years into it, I had this experience where I knew this confrontation between my character and another character was going to happen. And confrontation is not, is not Erica's strong suit. Yeah, alana, alana can do confrontation though, um, when she has to. And this was this was going to be one that needed to happen and it was going to happen. And so in between the two weeks, I was like playing through these scenarios in my head. I'm like, okay, well, if this other character says this, then Alana can say this, and if the character says this, then Alana can say this. And I practiced and practiced in my head for two weeks and then it happened. And it happened, like the scenarios that I played out happened.

Erika:

And on the way home that was one of our later sessions and I remember turning to my husband and I was like, holy shit, I did that, I did that and I was shaking the whole time, yeah, and my heart was beating so fast, like I remember this and it was beating so hard. But I remember thinking like I did that, yeah, and it probably took me at least another year to to see some other changes in me and I was like, yeah, there's gotta be a way to bring this into therapy. I love that. And so I started doing some research, which there's not there. There's more now, yeah, there's more on the mental health side than there was on the play therapy side, and really there still is not much on the play therapy side which baffles the crap out of me because it's a game. It's a game. Yeah, pulls the crap out of me because it's a game. It's a game, yeah, that's I.

Erika:

You know there are some people doing some work in grad school. That is we're trying to. We're trying to remedy that, um, and so I just I started incorporating it slowly, I will, in my biggest barrier, slowly, I well, in my biggest barrier, and I think for especially for women, is being the DM, like being the storyteller there, because it's a lot like, it's a lot of pressure, yeah, it is so much pressure and so like to be the storyteller, to be the one who had who has to like, feel like you have all the answers and have everything planned out and know, you know, almost be like you have to be on all the time and once number one. Once I got over that, it's okay if I pause and have to look something up like I can be human and say I need a second yeah, that helped.

Erika:

That helped. But I also ran um uh, a campaign for my friends to kind of get my my feet under me, and then I was able to take it into the therapy.

Maria:

Yeah, yeah, well, you have practicing and you know, and we.

Maria:

I believe that Liliana and I both, when we, when we teach and do trainings on whatever topic, we always incorporate. Now, you have to do it now, right now, you're going to do it and practice it. Right, and that's what you were doing. You were needing to practice it and embody it before you bring it into the therapy room. I I can't tell you how, like, when I look back at the journey of this and even just your story, it's like it's baffling to me that it took us so long to put these two forces together. Right, because it is a game, but, more importantly, it's narrative therapy. There you go, thank you. D&d is narrative therapy and I know there isn't like a sanctioned narrative play therapy thing, you know, even though it's one of those.

Liliana:

But let's pause. First of all, all for all of you who are like this is not play therapy, screw you. Tell me and show me historically what was play therapy, um, then we can have a conversation about it. So, truly, yes, you know. Back off, however, when you were talking, erica, and coming back to you, maria, which I wrote oh, you're doing exposure therapy, you're doing narrative therapy. That's what I wrote right away, like what the hell are you? What are they talking about?

Erika:

this is what you're doing absolutely yeah, and the the thing that I have learned, especially with my clients, is they will take it, oh yeah, they will take it where they need it. Even if I have and not that this has ever happened before I will have this, this lovely little battle, planned out, and it never happens because my client needs to do something else. They need to make friends with this spider, isn't that?

Maria:

therapy, though. Yeah, we could have the best plan for a session and the client comes in and takes it where they need to go.

Erika:

Yes, and you like, as you know, as a therapist, dm, I need to have the wherewithal, the insight to know when I need to let the client. You know, I had a client who I had these, these three giant spiders set up for him to fight his character. To fight he's like can I do an animal handling check? And so an animal handling check is like can I see if I can get close to this spider or animal, whatever, but in this case it was a spider Can I get see if I can get close to the spider and either pet it or, you know, try and make friends? Like wanted to get close to it? Yeah, I was like you can, can try.

Erika:

So he rolls the dice and adds some modifiers and it I had a number in my mind and failed. He wanted to do it again and it failed again. And then he wanted to do it a third time and I was like okay, this is important, this is important to this kid, that this six. Yeah, I was like okay, this is important, this is important to this kid, that this six. I was like, thankfully, rolled high the next time. I was like okay, you succeed. What do you want to do now?

Liliana:

Yeah.

Erika:

He's like I want to make friends with the spider, so then I get rid of the other spiders. I'm like, okay, this is. This is not happening. These other spiders were not fighting spiders today.

Liliana:

Yeah.

Erika:

And so we finished doing what we did in the cave and he comes out of the cave and there's another. There's another character like that I was playing and he raises his hands. So I was doing teletherapy with this client. He raises his hands on the other side of the screen and says I made a friend. Oh, and I, like this kid did not need to fight freaking spiders today. This kid needed to make a friend and so that I mean I had this whole plan and, like we do in there in any other, this kid took it where he needed it to go and it was beautiful and that spider stayed with him for the entire time oh I love this, I love it.

Maria:

And if you I mean if you've heard any of our talks or if you've seen me in presentation, you know like um big nerd, big nerd, I own it, wear my crown proudly, erica, why? I mean we could go into like the whole history of dnd, but we don't have time for that. Like the satanic panic, right. We could go into like the whole history of D&D, but we don't have time for that. Like the Santana Panic, right. We could go into all of that. That's like six episodes in itself. But I'm curious your experience with other professionals, other groups of therapists, other therapists in general, when you try to share that this is what you do in sessions, when you're not speaking to other geek therapists is that accepted and how does that go?

Erika:

it depends um, some um, in some places, um, they're very accepting of us. So, like, um, I have, I have a friend that I I often present with and him and I, um, it's very interesting because typically, if it's not a play therapy specific organization or conference, they're like yes, like gimme, gimme, gimme. Yeah, we have really struggled to. So him and I together, and myself, just like on my own, have really struggled to kind of break into the play therapy world with this idea of using D&D, which I find so it baffles me, it really really baffles me. Yeah, and you know, I'm still really trying to figure out why, excuse me and some of the you know, if it's not a geek play therapy thing. So of course, that's like that's different, yeah, play therapy. So those two things obviously are going to go together. But you know, some of the play therapy things I have been able to kind of get my foot in the door has been because of other people, like they've it. It hasn't even been me putting my, my name into the basket. It's been them saying, hey, you need to come do this thing, and I say, okay, yeah, um, and I'm not, I don't know, you know, and it's it's so interesting again to me like last year at the uh, the play therapy conference, like the big play therapy conference.

Erika:

I was going up the escalator and I have these D and D skirts that I got at comic-con from the legging lass. Oh, she's amazing. I freaking love her stuff and I spent so much money there. Um, so I was wearing one of my D and D skirts and Paris Goodyear Brown happened to be on the escalator behind me and she's like I really like your skirt. I was like, thank you, I, you know I really love D&D. And she said my son just started playing and he really enjoys it. And I was like, has he like, has he gotten anything out of it yet? And she's like, you know, I think he maybe has.

Erika:

I can see how it can be really therapeutic and I was like huh, what a wild concept, wild concept, and I kind of wanted to say can you make a public service announcement about that, because I feel like people would listen to you.

Liliana:

People don't know me, like right yet, but, but I but I think, no, let's, let, can. I'm gonna name the elephant in the room, because why not? Is it harold? Are we naming it? Yes, I love that, but I think, like you're naming things that still have not been named in our field, specifically in play therapy. One is that we still have the old timers I'm not even calling the originals anymore the old timers who are adhering to. This is what we're familiar, this is what we're comfortable.

Liliana:

Anything else it's rejected. So that's one part Two, that our field, specifically the association, it's about who do they like and therefore they'll be invited. So this idea like, oh, you go through this process, they're going to bend me, they're like that's okay. But like, submit your proposal Bullshit. But like so major proposal bullshit. There is the process of who do we like, who we can mold, who we, and it's like the we which we're not included. So therefore, yes, you need someone to hold the door for you so that you can come in, but it's still they can hold the door. But if they're not advocating, if they're not doing public announcements, if they're not changing that old trajectory, nothing will change. Patterns will continue, because that what systems were set up to hold these barriers.

Maria:

I'm going to go quiet. I feel like part of it is that they reject what they don't understand, and this is true for many, many systems, many, many organizations, right, if?

Liliana:

they do not understand it, or it?

Maria:

does not immediately spark an interest for them, then it's dismissed. And in when we talk about play therapy specifically, I feel like that boggles my mind even more right, because play therapy harps on. Play is the language the child gets to lead.

Maria:

Yes your child is. This is the same. I think digital play therapy is in a similar vein, but they've gotten much farther than geek play therapy has so far. But I think it's like well, I don't play D&D, I don't like that type of gaming. I don't game, I don't do. Well, we can have a whole podcast on play therapy. It's not playing. I think that's part of it is. I don't understand it. It's not something I enjoy. So therefore, it is rejected and is invalid. There you go. I'm going to pause, erica. What do you want to say?

Erika:

No, I agree, and I think that it's so frustrating because, you know, I even looked at and I brought this up to an individual who I trust within the association with the conference and how it's frustrating that I see the exact, exact word for word, exact same presentations year after year. And, yes, I, I fully understand that there are certain things that like that we that need to be at the conference, yes, we foundations are important.

Erika:

Yes, the probation is important we need foundation stuff, we need ethics stuff. Yes, we do, and there should be a the bulk of it being how are we moving our field forward? Yeah, what are what are we doing that's new and innovative? What are we doing? You know just what are we doing that's new? Yeah, because you know when I go, you know, this year I I'm like I have two full days where I'm not doing anything because there was nothing that sparked my interest. Yes, yeah, and so I'm actually those two days I'm taking my D&D stuff and I'm like who wants to do some one shots?

Maria:

Who wants to play?

Liliana:

Beautiful.

Erika:

Yeah, some one shots. Who wants to play beautiful? Yeah, because you know I'm not going to spend money on something that does not spark my interest and that I'm not interested that I don't need.

Maria:

Yeah, I love that, I love that and I do. I mean, I want to kind of also circle back to this idea that you are being pulled into spaces, because I think that's a very common first experience. And you know, and I think you know, Mrs, you're going to hear this audio. You won't see the video, but you'll see Erica's picture.

Maria:

Erica, you pass as a white woman, and so as do I, and I think we get invitations to tables based on that. Sometimes you know and I know I know you well enough that I feel like I can say that you and I both take that privilege and we use it to jam our foot in the door and hold it open for the people who actually need to be at the table. Yes, right, you and I have lots to contribute, but we're not the voices that need to be at these tables. 90% of the time, we're the ones that get the invitation, but I know I use my invitation to hold my hand out and pull the voice that needs to be there with me. Whether they like it or not, they need the association.

Maria:

Not liking it? Yeah, well, I mean, we have, we have a little bit of time. We can't do this. We could do this for hours, but why, why? Why are we not? Why are we not inviting the right people to the table? Why is it, when there's a new idea, that feels dangerous and scary instead of being curious?

Liliana:

which.

Maria:

I feel like the stance for play therapists is a natural curiosity, yeah.

Liliana:

That was a big one, Erica.

Maria:

I know it was a big question.

Erika:

I think it comes back to the not. I think it comes back to the not To. I think it's a couple of things. I think it comes back, number one, to the not understanding, to the not to the not understanding what things are. And also, I think it comes to not wanting to rock the boat. Yeah, because there are so many things going on in our country right now, in our country number one In our world. Number two Absolutely there are.

Erika:

I think that there are people who I'm deliberately choosing my words carefully because for lots of reasons but I think that there are people in power who are letting certain things get in the way of the bigger picture and are doing more harm than good. Yes, and instead of kind of taking a step back and saying, hey, maybe, maybe, maybe, I either need to step aside and let someone who backspace just a little bit. Um, I read this book, I was, I was, uh, I don't know, given this book is a homework to read and it's called liminal thinking. I can not remember the author at the by the, at like right now, um, but it was brilliant and what it did for me. I don't really, honestly, know that I learned anything differently from it, but what it did for me was it gave me words to describe the way that I think.

Erika:

Yeah, and so in this book he talked about how people have blind spots and so kind of how I conceptualize this is like we all kind of live in our own little. There are individuals who have like see-through snow globes and they can see. They can see the things going on around them. They might have a black spot here and there, that those are their blind spots or those are the spots that they are intentionally not willing to see. So, like I definitely have a have a few spots where I'm like I am not going to look at that right now, I am not willing to listen to your perspective on this right now, because I am so entrenched in my own and I believe that if I open this blind spot like yours is going to do harm to mine. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely believe that there are a handful of people, maybe maybe lots of people, who have mostly black snow globes with only little pinpricks that they can see out of.

Erika:

Yeah, and I sometimes feel like those are the people who get put in charge of things. Yeah, and I think that is sometimes why we're not invited to the table. Yeah, community invited to the table. Because it's different and because it's not understood and because it's not traditional. Right, when that's kind of bullshit, because it is, yes, we're just calling it something different, like we're owning the geekness of it. We're owning all of that and we're banding together, demanding to be seen instead of trying to fit in with everyone else.

Maria:

I love that analogy. It gives so much grace because I can often get rooted into this. Because I can often get rooted into this, they're actively choosing to reject this, which may be know how to fix this. You're going to take the people and you're going to make them play a campaign with you. They have the experience of what D&D, because I think that's part of it is that they're rejecting it without trying it, without knowing what it is. They've based it on whatever concept they have. When they hear the word D&D, which is still like for some, it's you know, it's Satan panic, it's dirty teenage boys in basements, it's you know what I mean. And I mean my invitation now would be come play, come play, play, play a one shot shot with Erica and then make a decision Right. At least become informed before you make a decision that's so harmful to so many.

Liliana:

Well, and it's an idea right, because we're talking about a generation, everyone who's in power, which is the generation that grew up with. You play outside, you play with game boards, you like nature all of that is great, but this is how you play. So the idea of playing digitally, like in a game, and now you've seen like these actual, tangible things that they perceive like that's the only way. Because of that, they reject anything else, because of their template. The invitation that you're doing is like the world is evolving and as we are evolving, we do not want to be left behind.

Liliana:

The question is how do we adapt to what is happening and invite others, and how do we integrate ethically from the lens of exposure and narrative therapy, and integrate this to help the generation that is doing this, versus rejecting and then becoming outdated, which is the fear that they have. That's why they hold on to power to be outdated, and that's exactly what they're working so hard for, right? So I love even when you said like oh, they're morons, I'll call them out for you. And because they only hang out with the same people, read the same shit, do the same over and over again, like that's why there's no expansion, there's no learning, there's no curiosity. I'll do it for you. I'll take that for you.

Maria:

Well, we've talked, we've named it before, liliana that often people in those positions of power either have never done clinical work so they don't they're making decisions on work that they don't do, or it's been a long time since they've done clinical work and they're not familiar with the landscape of what we're doing and how our clients are presenting today.

Liliana:

Or let's name the third one, which is the holding to patriarchy principles. So that's the third one.

Erika:

Well, and that's kind of you know, the, the, the bridge. Yeah, is it okay if I talk about the, the Sanjay thing that I Go for it? Yeah, okay. So I last year at the Kansas play therapy conference, Last year at the Kansas Play Therapy Conference, sophia Ansari was our speaker and the first day she did superheroes, she did her superhero training, which I had.

Erika:

Actually that was the first time I had ever met Sophia in person. I met her for the first time ever during COVID, virtually and did the super superhero training. So it was fun to have like number one, get to finally meet her in person and then get to do that in person. And then the second day she did sand tray. Um, and her and I got to be really good friends from that sand, from that virtual training, until I mean now, but anyway, um, so during the sand tray training she, in front of you know the whole conference, she turns to me. She's like Erica, you should figure out how to put Dungeons and Dragons in the sand tray, and then she keeps going on and she keeps, like you know, doing her thing.

Erika:

Just a little nugget of genius dropped in your lap, yeah of genius dropped in your lap, yeah, so it took me about a year to to put this idea together, to figure out, okay, how can? Because it wouldn't leave. It would not leave my brain. Yep, Like, I'm going to figure out how to freaking do this because I think that's brilliant number one, and you know, I know that there are people out there who they like, actually do campaigns in this end, which I think is cool. But I wanted this to be different. I wanted this to be a lot more simplified, so what I did is it took me about a year to figure out okay, how can this be translatable to every single play?

Erika:

therapist's office oh wow, what, what all elements can I take from traditional dungeons and dragons and put into this thing? And then how in the hell am I going to teach it, like to make sense, to people who have never played? Yeah, and so I did that. I did it, yeah, and there's, um, I have an amazing, amazing friend who is like spatially organized I guess I don't know if that's the best way to say that, but like I struggle to see things on paper and so, like I drew out like the character sheet on a piece of graph paper and that's, that's legit, what I was going to use and just type things out in outline format, in word, and I was showing it to her one day. Um, cause I know that she really loves, and she's like Erica, do you want me to make that pretty for you? And I was like, can you do that? And she's like, yeah, I actually enjoy doing that. And I was like that's amazing. So she did, and it's beautiful, it is so beautiful. And so I'm oh gosh, a month from tomorrow, I'm doing my very first training on like teaching how to do this.

Erika:

I ran so before I even did any of that, I, my, my child is 15. Um, and I took them to my office. I was like okay, can you, can you just help me run through this, like I want to make sure that it works as good in practice as it does in my brain, cause sometimes things don't work as well in practice as they do in my brain. And after we were done this is the best compliment I probably will ever get in my life about this my child said to me mom, you're a really good DM to me mom, you're a really good DM and I was like thank you, baby.

Liliana:

Yeah, that is a badge of honor. I will frame that.

Maria:

Ask his signature because we don't get those comments from our children, Erica. I want to just highlight and because I know Liliana is going to give me the signal that we need to wrap up, I know this. I just want to highlight that we've been able to talk through the sense of rejection, this dismissive downplay, no, no, no, you're not welcome. This is not okay. And you have doubled down and basically said F you. I have found a way to make this in a way that you can't argue with this.

Maria:

You can't argue with this, because on paper and in practice, this works and that you've used foundational, you've used all the boxes that they want you to check, but you not only were like this works and I want to keep doing this. You have doubled down and are now creating spaces for other therapists to feel empowered and educated and trained enough to do the same thing for their clients.

Erika:

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's why that's like that was the goal with this. I'm like, ok, so you know is kind of like, how can I get more people into this? And like, how can I get like a stepping stone in between into this? And like how can I get like a stepping stone in between? I have no idea what the hell I'm doing with this to. Okay, I want to learn more. Yeah, because it there is a lot like there's a lot a lot there's a lot and I'm like okay, what you know, can this be an in-between?

Erika:

and I think that it's. Can this be an in-between? And I think that it's simple enough. I think it's simple. I'm hoping. I tried to make it as simple as possible. I love that and I really, really think it is.

Maria:

But you've made it bite-sized. I mean you have to.

Erika:

Yes, I have made it super, super bite-sized, um, and I don't know, I think it's, I feel like I, I feel like it's something. I feel like it's something that can be really useful for people and that that therapists, who have no idea what Dungeons and Dragons is, that they they're like oh, this is, this is really cool, this is very cool.

Liliana:

So you said a month for now, tell me what day, because I'm gonna go, as I, as, as I share with all of you at the beginning, I'm a virgin in this. I'll go to your training. Um, it's.

Erika:

April or not April Jesus. I was like wait a minute, august 8th, um, and it'll be. It'll be, uh, virtually, and the what I think is going to be really cool is my, my sweet child, oh crap.

Maria:

Just had a realization happen.

Erika:

Okay, it may not be my sweet child, because I just realized my parents wanted my. They, my parents, take all the grandbabies for a few days out of the summer to have, um. My maiden name is jones, so they have jones camp, nice, um, and it's during that time. So I will find, I'm going to find another kid. It was going to be my kid, um, now I don't think it could be my kid because my kid's going to pick Jones Camp over. But I'm going to have someone there to do like a demonstration because I want people to see this in practice and to see me fumble, because I'm going to fumble, it's beautiful.

Maria:

It's realistic. And this is just the first offering. So if this doesn't get posted until after and you feel like you've missed out. You haven't. You haven't Just follow Erica. We'll include her socials and catch her on the next one, because, erica, what a gift, yes, oh my gosh, what a gift. I mean, we've converted Liliana. It's going to happen. It's going to happen it's gonna happen.

Liliana:

It's gonna happen. So please, uh, come back and talk to us more about this, because we do need you, we do need. I mean, that was the whole purpose of the conversation between maria and I, specifically with the podcast, which is, how do we keep um inviting others so they can come and share their gifts? Because play therapy is not just one model and play therapy is more than one way. If we truly are curious and we truly believe that we have to allow the children to lead, then that means that we continuously have to be adapting to what kids are doing and exposed to, and playing and learning. So. So it's up to us to do it differently. So thank you for being a voice, for being a light and showing us how to.

Maria:

Erica, thank you so much. You are truly I mean, I feel honored and blessed to have you in my life, both personally and professionally. But what a gift you are, and I hope that you do come back, maybe even after your first training, so we can see how it goes and what you need in support, because this is not the end. This is simply the beginning for you, and I'm, I'm excited for this journey. I really, really am, yes, thank, you.

Erika:

I'm excited too. I appreciate it.

Maria:

Well, thanks for being here, Erica. Thank you Until next time, guys.

Head Shot

Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Erika Walker

Guest