Leading With A Broken Heart with Marisol Solarte-Erlacher

Your heart can be broken and you can still lead well, but you have to stop treating that ache like evidence you’re failing. We sit down with Marisol, a former mental health therapist of 21 years turned resilience consultant and trauma-informed leadership trainer, to name what so many helping professionals are carrying right now: grief that doesn’t resolve neatly, emotional labor that doesn’t get seen, and the pressure to keep performing competence when the world feels unstable.

Marisol shares a deeply personal story from kinship care and godparenting that reveals the real work behind “showing up” over time. We talk about the moment a therapist told her that staying in a child’s life meant learning to live with a broken heart, and how that truth translates to clinicians, nonprofit leaders, immigration advocates, and anyone trying to serve others in high-stakes systems. Instead of chasing a fantasy of fixing everything, we explore how to stay present, keep healthy boundaries, and let grief exist without turning it into frantic over-responsibility.

We also dig into therapist burnout versus brokenheartedness, the kintsugi metaphor of repairing cracks with gold, and why identity can get dangerously fused with the role of “helper.” If you’ve ever thought “my clients need me,” felt disposable in a commodified therapy culture, or wondered who you are outside your job title, this conversation offers language and practical reframes to build resilient teams and a sustainable career while staying fully human.

Subscribe for more honest conversations, share this with a colleague who’s carrying too much, and leave a review so more helpers can find it. What part of your identity do you want to strengthen outside of work?

A Hero's Welcome Podcast  © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Welcome back, listeners, to another episode of the Heroes Welcome podcast. I'm your co-host, Maria, and I'm joined by my lovely co-host.

Maria 0:43

That's me, Liliana Velan. And we are here with a special guest. We are here with Marisol, a dear friend of mine. Marisol, how do you want to introduce yourself to our audience?

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Oh, that's a great question. So I'm a recovering therapist. I was a mental health therapist for 21 years. And it'll be in, oh my gosh, five days. It'll be a year since I retired from clinical practice. But what I actually do now is I'm a resilience consultant, trainer. So I do a lot with organizations and companies around trauma-informed care, building resilient teams, building sustainable teams. And I do a lot around leadership development. But I've been doing that for like what feels like a million years though.

Maria 1:29

I was like, since I know you, one, you have been in leadership, you have always been involved. And two, you have always helping either associations or agencies or anyone around who is willing to listen in regards to how to help people around them when it comes to leadership. So that brings us to our topic, which by the way, site note, all of you out there, we're gonna have to come back and talk about recovery therapists. I love that title.

What It Means To Lead Heartbroken

Maria 2:04

It's specifically what it means to lead when we are heartbroken. It has started money soul. How do we do that?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yeah, well, that's such a, you know, I think it's very poignant. Um, right now, I think, you know, before we started, we were just talking about a lot of heartbreaking things that are happening for us. I think as a collective, I think individually, and I think we have shared experiences. You know, Liliana and I just recently had a friend that passed away this week. And I had this experience. So I've my the anyone who's listening should know that if you're a therapist, you should be in therapy.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

And I'm sure you all have talked about this before. Yes. But it's like if you're a therapist and you've never been to therapy, it's like going to a doctor who's never been to a doctor. It's like crazy. Why would anyone trust you if you haven't sat across from someone else and been vulnerable in that way? So go to therapy and just do your work. But all that being said is I've tried to commit to that throughout my whole career. And so I was

Kinship Care And Ongoing Grief

SPEAKER_02 3:08

in therapy and in 2018, my family took in two kids in kinship care. So it was an 11-year-old who was known to us and his six-week-old sister. And it was very, very, you know, as many, those who've been down this journey of kinship care, foster care, it's like very, very fast. It's like you get a call at 5:30, and then you have to make a decision by 6 p.m. And then the next day the children are in your care. And, you know, at the time I had a 10-year-old, and so I was not adept to taking care of a newborn. I don't think I'm actually very good at taking care of newborns. I think I'm passable. And so they came into our care. And so in 2018, you know, we it was definitely a huge life shift, but this is all getting to the point of broke brokenheartedness. And so it we our goal was to get them back into their home in the safest way possible because we know that outcomes are better when children are with their families. And even though that's a really challenging thing in in the long term, you know, we knew that that was an important thing to try and do. So lucky for us, they did return home, but it's been a challenge because we have been continue to be in their lives. And so the six-week-old is now a seven and a half-year-old. And because we've been in relationship, we have become been in relationship with their parents, we become the godparents. And so I it's been challenging because, you know, she is, she experiences a lot of trauma and she experiences a lot of challenges and a lot of woundedness, and will went through a period of time where she consistently would like beg us to come back and stay with us and live with us. And and so I would be in this constant, and Liliana knows this just in conversations that I've had with her over time. Us trying to figure out what is our role? Who, you know, are we just walking alongside her? Are we supposed to intervene? And I was in therapy talking about this, and you know, obviously talk about talked about it at length. And I said, I I sometimes I don't know if I'm doing the right things. I don't know if I'm doing more good than harm. Am I, you know, confusing her more? Am I what am I what am I doing? And like, do I just need to like back away? Like, am I, am I the my intention is to do good, and I don't know if I am. And I feel like I am in a constant struggle with my own pain around what's happening. And she said, you know, if you are making a choice to be in this girl's life, and part of that is going to have to be you learning how to live with a broken heart. And I was like, she's absolutely right. Part of my conflict was not just about if I'm doing the right thing. Part of it was, am I willing to live brokenhearted, to be in this young

Learning To Live Brokenhearted

SPEAKER_02 6:13

girl's life? And so I think as I've approached some of the work that I do in leadership, you know, especially with what's happening, you know, just on a national global level, I think people are challenged and they feel brokenhearted because of what's happening in terms of folks being, you know, disappeared. I think people who work, you know, in immigration rights, work in, you know, working with folks in detention, people who are trying to provide services and funding is getting cut, and there, you know, people are fearful for their own lives, you know, based on what's happening in the current environment. It's really hard to think about continuing to do this work, you know. And I imagine, you know, I and obviously different iterations of my career. I'm not currently practicing, but I think it's really hard to sit across from folks who are, you know, having to live day to day this way. And it breaks our hearts, you know. I it it it challenges our ability to be like, you know, every single day I have nothing to give people. I have no way of saying, you know, to give people hope, to tell them it's gonna get better. All we can do is say it might get worse.

unknown 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Before, you know, like we were talking about. And so I think part of it is like we are going to be brokenhearted for a long period of time. And how do we do the work in spite of our broken hearts? And with the understanding that our brokenheartedness is actually going to give us more capacity. Like, if I can like lean into my broken heart is a signal to me that like I'm so committed and filled with love for whatever the work is, then I can like use that as fuel for to keep going.

Maria 7:58

Can we pause there? Because that's huge. That's a lot of nuggets. I was like, holy cow. How is everyone with that sentence learning how to live with a broken heart? And that feel like that's the that should be the subtitle of our careers.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, self-disclosing, I'm a Swifty. So immediately her song lyrics of like, I can do it with a broken heart came to mind. And I'm like, no, but that's so true. That is so true. And I think, right, I think first is like giving awareness to that, that that is part of the struggle, that is part of the ache and the work that we're doing. Because I think we've, I know, at least for me in my practice, we've been struggling with the words of why is this different? Why is this harder? Why is this heavier? Yeah. And without listing like all of the things that clearly are making things harder, but it's like, yeah, but my usual coping methods, my usual support doesn't seem like enough. And we, I think as a field and as females are very quick to internalize that. Like, what's wrong with me? Right? Like, we are socially trained to be like it's a failure of mine.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And just the statement of like, how do we do this with a broken heart feels it feels sad, but it's also pretty enlightening of like, yes, that's what this is. How do we give hope when we don't have hope?

SPEAKER_02 9:30

And that brokenheartedness doesn't have to be an indicator of like of stopping or not doing it, or if I'm brokenhearted, that means I'm doing the wrong thing or not doing enough. It's like you're brokenhearted because you are doing the right thing. And I think that's an important, you know, I think recalibration.

Maria 9:50

Yeah. So two things come in mind, which is everything is political, even though our feel is still in denial.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I'm sorry, if you're a listener of ours, you know that to be true for the two of us. That should not come as news.

Maria 10:07

But also, you know, the the reframe that you did, which is we can use that as the fuel because we care. So is require requiring us also to we can continue giving and how do we take care of ourselves and how do we go to a space so that they can organize it and help us refuel, which is what you did with your therapists.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, I think the other thing that I'm reminded of, because, you know, we live in a time right now, and I think this has just been it's endemic of our culture. It's been since the big, you know, whatever, the beginning of colonization, the beginning of time, um probably, is the dehumanization of, you know, folks. And I think part of being brokenhearted is reminding us of our humanity. Like we are still human and we need to like hold on to our humanity and like help other people feel that. Like, yeah, we're brokenhearted because we're human and that's a good thing. Like you can be human, we can be human together. We don't want to lose that because I think that's what we're we're losing. That's what this, you know. I think the goal is to isolate us, help us not be human, not see each other as human. And so we have to like hold on to the pieces that help us know that we are.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah, we were talking about that before we started recording about like that's kind of the goal, right? Is to take away the hope, to uh to make us hopeless. And in our field, we know where hopelessness can lead, right? Like hopelessness, hopelessness is one of those major signs that big shifts need to happen because without hope, right? Like there's no no motivation, there's no energy left to give. I think that's really I think that's really important. The other thing that comes to mind for me is the the practice of kintsugi. Um so the Japanese. So if you don't know, right, like it's the it's the process, it's the old Japanese art of repairing broken things with gold.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

When you were talking about being brokenhearted and still doing the work, and some of that brokenheartedness is fueling our capacity to continue to do

Brokenheartedness Versus Burnout

SPEAKER_01 12:13

the work. That what's what came up in my mind was like our heart, like fracturing, but then being repaired with gold and then fracturing again and then being repaired with gold. So that was just an image that came because I do think, you know, I because what I'm also seeing is a lot of people questioning that they've got burnout, which is also very possible given the state of everything. Yeah. But I'm wondering if some of this brokenheartedness feels and looks like burnout, if we didn't have the language, if we don't have the awareness around it. This, like, you know, if this if you have a sense of hopelessness and helplessness, that that is a sign of burnout.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

And how can we how can we navigate telling the difference between those two?

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Yeah, that's such a great question. You know, I think it it part of it for me is the aware, it's like, if I can have awareness that I am brokenhearted in this moment in time, then I can tend to it.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

And I think that that's the differentiation is like, I think what we don't, I don't think that it's a core a correlation, like being brokenhearted means that I'm going to be burnt out eventually. I think it's more, this is a signal to me to tend to myself and allow myself to be in that. And whereas I think when we get to burnout, we haven't tended to it. You know, we're not in tune with what's happening internally. We're not allowing ourselves to go through the fullness of that grief. You know, I think with Ariane, it's gonna be, you know, with my goddaughter, it's like a constant cycle of grief for me, you know, where it's like a constant, you know, I think with every stage, with every moment, I'm I have to let myself grieve. And all the hopes and dreams that I have for her, you know, like there are things where I'm like, oh gosh, you know, I just I see such such a vision for her, and then I, you know, I don't know. Again, I don't have any control over that, but being able to just grieve these things that she won't have, and and also knowing that, like the other night we went to birthday party, I took her to a birthday party, which is really sweet, and we're in the car, and she loves singing Pink Pony Club. She's like, and she calls it Pink Pony Girl. And so we're both like shouting out like Pink Pony Girl in the car. And I think those are like those moments where we can like come back and be like, okay, I understand why like this exists in this way, and that, you know, I think being able to know that her our presence in each other's lives is something that is meaningful, and that if I can hold on to that grief, I think, and let myself feel it without having it be informative to take action. And I think that's what I was doing all the time. Like, oh, I'm grieving, I need to save her, or I need to do something, or I need to, and I think sometimes it's like, can I just be with it, you know, and then accept it in a way that's going to just expand the relationship.

Maria 15:37

Yeah. Which is the whole purpose of therapy, right? Not this fantasy of I'm gonna go to therapy so that I will not be depressed, or I don't know. Yes. Your therapist is gonna fix it, right? Or I'm gonna not have boundaries and be in this position so that I can always be at service to you without attending to. So you are talking about this movement that we're going through in our field and in other fields too, but talking about our field of mental health, where we are learning that we cannot be at service 24-7,

Boundaries And Being Human In Session

Maria 16:16

that we are not empty containers going into a session, that we are impacted physically and emotionally when we hear those stories and when we are honest with our clients. When you were talking about grief, I remember a client coming to me and she came a couple of years ago when her son passed away, and and she was like, I don't want to grieve. And I was like, I'm not the therapist for you if that is your goal. Right, I will be grieving with you. Right, right. And it was like this shocking thing for her. And we've been grieving in waves, like she goes, she comes back, but it has expanded my capacity of for myself, same as for you, which is this parallel process with our therapist and us being therapists with our clients of expanding and understanding how to be with broken hearts.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I it's like we you know, I think it was so interesting. Same therapist, shout out Helen. I love you, Helen. I'm gonna send this to her, she'll love that. Um so I think you know, with her in this process, I think, you know, when I when I decided to retire from being a therapist, and you know, I I feel like I just had such a huge, like I had so much hubris and ego around like who I was as a therapist initially. Yeah like I was like, oh, you know, I'm gonna be, I remember the, you know, when I I taught a master's program that Liliana taught in as well. And I remember talking to the class. And so this is earlier in my career, and I said, you know, I'm gonna be that trauma therapist that's that's in the field for 30 years. So when you ever think of me, you know, I don't know how many ever years from now, call me and I'll still be in practice. And I was like, I hope they were all rolling their eyes real hard at me, like, oh my gosh, this woman.

Maria 18:22

I went into that class and I was like, girl, I am helping you guys because I will not be in this field forever. I'm out.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Watch, they're gonna call me and it's gonna be like boo, boo, boo. Maddie's not in practice anymore. I'm like, I didn't make it, I was too traumatized. But I think the thing that I I told my therapist like early, early on was like, this practice or the my career is what it what I'm committed to is like understanding myself through this work. And I think so. When I was like retiring, I was kind of like going through all this stuff around like, you know, I didn't make it, like I didn't, you know, I just had all this like angst about some of it, like, and she was like, it was never about that for you. Like it was always about something else. And I was like, you know, you're right. And I think that that's the beauty of therapy is like it's the you know, we get to be in relationship with people and like hold a space together. Yeah, and that's where where the change happens, you know, Lena, that you can and I remember early on, like as a therapist, where you know, you were like so scared and rigid and like don't show too much emotion, but like show enough emotion, you know, like you're always in this like weird space. And then finally I was like, well, what what could it be like to be human in this space? You know, what could it be like to be like I'm also your pain impacts me, you know? Like I'm sad when you tell me these things about the pain of your childhood and what happened to you that I want to feel that pain with you. I don't just want to be this like, you know, robot trying to like, you know, create, you know, whatever this like sterile container for you. Like, you know, part of it is like people want to be felt in that way. And I think that's important. And, you know, I think part again, kind of going back to this concept of like the the reality is what helps you be able to hold those healthy boundaries is like doing your own work. You know, I think the fear is always like, oh, I not knowing where that boundary is, you know, within that client relationship. And part of that is like if you know your own yourself and your own boundaries and you know what that feels like, then you're going to show up in a way that's healthy.

Maria 20:48

Yeah. I love that. I love that a lot. Yes. I think that should be a soundbite for all of you out there, and including for us, right? Because it takes time. I feel what you're discussing, Marisol, is a developmental process to get to that place if you go to therapy and if you keep organizing and finding ads. I remember you and I having these conversations about your retiring. And you know, that's I was like, god damn, we work. I had to go back also, and and Maria knows this because I was like, this is a second career for me. I used to do business plans and helping business to launch to do things, and I was like, I changed careers. Why this career feels like it's my only identity, yeah, versus any other career that you go and you feel like fuck it, it's time to pivot. Yeah, but there was something about the training that we're given, yeah, to believe, and especially when it's female driven, to believe that we owe that we have to sacrifice, that we have to be there and answer to everything, and and have the right answer and the right intervention and the right model and network and smile and do the facials and like it was exhausting. So when you told me back wow, it was like years ago, like I'm retiring. I was like, fuck yes. Uh I'm gonna be living through you. And then I went through health care and I was like, wait a minute, this cannot be my identity. So I had to go also to therapy to figure out why this identity feels different as a mental health therapist than any other career.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

I think that's pretty common in helping professions, especially those that are, I think, female dominant. Again, I think that that's part of the conditioning. But I'm I'm wondering because I'm not all of our listeners are in a position where they can quite retire yet. Or would like to I don't know if I was to be fair. Or would like to keep keep doing the work. So we've given them some tips, right? One, maybe look to see if this is brokenheartedness.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Two, if you're not in therapy, get your butt into therapy.

Identity After Therapy Work Ends

SPEAKER_01 23:10

What else, Maria Sol, would you recommend for them to consider so that they can take care of themselves authentically while still doing what we still love doing the work, otherwise we wouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

100%. And I think that's so key. You know, I think it's so key. I think so. I'm gonna something that you said just triggered something in my mind, Leanne, and then I'll circle back to I think I have some really helpful things related to like what is important and what's helpful to do, because you know, part of my road to retiring was burnout.

unknown 23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

And I was like, I can't do this anymore. Just like physically, emotionally, like I hadn't been attuned to the impact, you know, even though cognitively like I knew I wasn't tuning in. And so I did like when I was gonna pivot, you know, and like similarly, where I was like, this is like I can't just like stop. I have make an I there's an income related to the work that I do, you know, to support my family and pay my mortgage and all the things. And so I did a strategic plan with this this group, and they were like, I thought they were gonna do like, what's your what do you want to do here? What are your goals for Q1? What are your rocks in your bucket or whatever? And this woman was like there to do is like more like coaching, and she said, Who are you? And I said, Well, you know, I'm a therapist, I'm a a friend, you know, and then she goes, Okay, well, what if we did this? And she took a marker and she crossed off therapist and I started crying. And she was like, What's that reaction about? And I said, I don't know. And I had to go like deep dive into that like understanding of like, how did this become my identity? Like, how did it, how did it become the thing, the the like thing I led with or I can't even let go of? Yeah, you know, it should be easy to say, I'm just just done with this career. And it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

And so I think part of it is like, you know, I think it's like really being with yourself and being like attuned and honest. And, you know, going to therapy. And I think also like to Liliana's point, I think there is some grandiosity that we have around who we are in this profession. And the reality is like you kind of have to come at it like, you know what, I'm not that important. And that's the hard thing. Is like, and and and so I think it's like having honest reflection, you know, very like just the fact that we're like, but my clients need me. It's like that shouldn't, you know, like I I until the very bitter end, I did that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

I mean, finally, like the person that I worked with, I was seeing like four clients, you know, kind of like here and there. And she was like, you need to stop, you know, like you need to like have a it's done. And I was like, Oh, but it's not that big of a deal. And they, you know, we've been together forever. Like I have all these, and it's like, if I honestly look at myself, it's like, what is it about me that can't let go of these things? And so I think that's the important thing. It's like, I think if we can be honest with ourselves and say, uh, in spite of my broken heart, this is the work that I love and I'm called to, and I'm going to tend to myself and and and allow this to expand me as a human being, not just as a therapist, but as a human being in this world. And if not, if it's my brokenheartedness means that I'm I it it feels like too much and it's now been cons is all consuming. I think that is a a signal of like, how do you rethink this? And the reality is like if you retire, everyone's gonna be okay. Yeah, yeah.

Maria 27:01

You know, can I can I say something? We had a a past guest, I think it was in season two, Joey Tapia. I don't know if you remember, Maria, and it's a friend of us. Marisa, I don't know if you remember a conversation that we were having with Joey, and by the way, he's in his 30s, so we're like, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

We're the we're the Viejitas of he's always like wide-eyed, like what are these whoever's.

Maria 27:23

But he said, and and that helped me, and this is before all of this started, and he said, We're in a field where a client can fire me any second. I'm in a job where they can replace me within a day. And I'm in a field that if I write research or books, I have to keep rewriting in five years in order to stay relevant. The reality is that this field is a consuming vampire sucking, like and when he said it, I was like, What?

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah, I was just thinking about this, Liliana.

Maria 27:56

And and I remember that conversation because we were eating amazing food as we usually do.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Yeah.

Maria 28:02

And having, and and that's the thing about our group, right? Like we go to places, we eat, and then we're having these deep conversations, but we tend to separate our identities and then have these big conversations about identity, what is happening, what is important, and then coming back to what is it really important and how are we present with each other? And it's something that our field tends to neglect because they keep insisting in this idea of you don't exist, you are a tool to be useful.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Right. Yes, I'm reading this book, and I don't know if it's okay to swear on your podcast. I'm sure it is because I know Liliana. I mean, so I'm reading that book. It's called Love in a Fucked Up World. Oh, it's not, I think for the therapists who listen to your podcast, it's a little bit, you'll be like, This is somewhat elementary. But the first part of the book I love because it talks about this like concept of living in a culture of disposability, and we believe that people are disposable. And I was thinking about this in the context of being a therapist. And I felt like there were times with clients where I felt disposable.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Yep. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

And I think it's like we commodify therapy, which we sh should, right? We should get paid for our work. But I think in that commodification

Disposability Culture And Healthy Endings

SPEAKER_02 29:19

of therapy, we've made it as though like you didn't work for me, or you did that thing, and now, you know, you fucked up. And so it's over now. And it's like, that's like, and we allow that. Yeah. We internalize that. You know, I know that like I've thought about like therapy relationships, like that, you know, things happened or didn't work, or and and I internalize that as like, oh man, that was like so painful. And like, how do I live with that? And how do I live with that as part of my identity as a therapist out there in the world with no control, you know? But I think we have cultivated that culture in in this therapy world is that we are disposable. And I think even like people come to us and they'll be like, well, you know, I had that one therapist and she was horrible. And then we kind of like puff ourselves up where we're like, well, that's not me. I'm one of the good ones, you know, and it's just like it's just so much more complex than that. And I think we have to like fight against that.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

That we're not disposable, you know, we're human beings, and you know, and I and I would work on that obviously with my clients and say, like, part of this relationship is like, you know, doing repair and like, you know, being honest and you know, allowing things to come to a conclusion. And I had a one of my clients that I was with for a long time. He and I had our final session, and we're both he was crying and crying, and we were both crying. And he said, you know, how he said, How do you end something that's good? He's like, I've never had that. And I said, you know, it's kind of a beautiful gift that we both get to to have. It's like we get to end when it's good, and we get to like hold hold each other in that. And I think we just we don't allow ourselves as therapists to like hold that space of like, how do we how do we allow ourselves not to be disposable? You know, that we can have endings that are like complex and hard, and you know, ones that are good and it's all okay, you know, it doesn't have to mean that we're we're bad.

Maria 31:24

Yeah. I love this conversation. And going back to Maria, when you know, you asked, like, how do we help, or what do we share with our therapists who are not ready to retire or think about I cannot retire? I think you have given so many tips in regards to this is an ongoing grief process of learning how to do this job that is constantly heartbroken for what we chose to do. We are containers for traumas.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yep.

Maria 31:59

Right. And then I'm also can you stop thinking that your God gifts?

SPEAKER_02 32:06

No, I'm not for sure.

Maria 32:09

We are replaceable, but in that part of the boundary is also understanding that you are human, right? So do not dehumanize yourself, you are a human being who deserves to be seen and appreciated for what you do, right? But also like calm down.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Yeah, yeah, we're not that important. It's fine. And I think I constantly I mean, that was maybe a gift of therapy for me was like, Carl, you're not that important. You can you can walk away and everyone's gonna be okay. Yeah. Um, and I think, you know, I think part of that is giving ourselves that permission of we can make choices for ourselves.

Maria 32:52

Yeah. And I think that's the most empowered uh key that we can share with anyone who's listening, right? Which is you are valuable, we see you.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Right. Right.

Maria 33:04

I know our feel and associations and and and boards have made you believe that you have to be in fear of and that you have to be in service of. Right. But the reality is that we see you, you are worthy of honoring yourself and listening to your body and like waves going in and out of this heaviness that we chose to do for a job, and that's not your only fucking identity.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yes, exactly, a hundred percent. Yeah, I love being like, you know, and now out in community. I'm not, I'm always like, no, I'm not a therapist anymore, you know. And and it helps me because I think it it helps me curate the other parts of myself, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

And maybe there's always a part of that that will live in me, you know. And I feel like it was a gift for my own journey of just self-understanding and growth. And, you know, I always say, like, you know, the oldest daughter in a Latinx family, you know, parentified, over responsible, high-achieving perfectionist. And so I fell into the right profession. I was like, people come to me as an authority, and then I tell I get to like, you know, be like, I am the authority. Um but I think in that it helped me grow past that. You know, helped me grow past this idea that I had to take it all on. And so I think overall, you know, I I think you know, again, I people will be like, what a beautiful like thing that you get to help people, you know. What uh and I'm always like, oh god, I never even think about that. And because I really think that for me it was more the about understanding myself in how I related to the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

That's such a sunshine, rainbowy like outlook on our job. It feels so fluffy when they say it that way, and it's like, no, no, you don't get to dismiss the work that I am doing and the toll that it is taking on me physically and mentally. No, no, no, no, it is not, you know, it's it's not that.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

And people love to like dismiss, you know, our emotional labor. And people always be like, it must be so hard to like sit all day and listen to people. And I'm like, that's well, that's not what I do. So uh yeah, it is hard, but for different reasons. Yes, but yeah, I think it's like dismissing that emotional labor, and I think we can invalidate ourselves because of that.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Um, but understanding that like this, you know, our society is built on emotional labor and it's important. And you know, I think the more that we can curate our inner world in a way that like feels the the meaning, the meaningfulness is about ourselves, you know, it's not just about what we give.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yeah, I love that. And the invitation, even to our listeners, of like, if you took your occupation off that list, yeah, what are the other pieces of yourself do you need to cultivate and pour into?

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Yes, that's a great practice. People should do that. Make a list, put therapists at the top, and then cross it off. See what happens.

Maria 36:44

See the anxiety, the emails with the anxiety that we're gonna be getting, and we're gonna send them to Marisol.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

And I'll be like, it's okay. Just cross it off.

Maria 36:54

All right, it's gonna be by the way on the other side. Marisol saying, like, that's okay. That's like her line.

Practices For Hope And Imperfection

Maria 36:59

Every time that we reach out to Marisol, I was like, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I think that's a good headspace to be in a field that makes everything feel like so high and so heavy and so black or white in terms of like crisis and responsibility. I think it's I think it's a nice place to be of like, okay, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Yeah. And it is okay, right? Like I remember just living in constant fear of like, what if I get grieved? What if this happens? What if it, you know, and we live in that, and then I'm just like, you know, it's okay. It doesn't have to mean anything, you know, it can just be an experience that we have.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

And um, I think that's the important piece. And I know for myself, it's like so much of my identity was based on am I doing it the right way? And it's just like, how do you do relationship perfectly every time? Like it's impossible.

Maria 38:00

Fucking dark and whiteness all there.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Especially well, yeah, especially in the world that we're living in right now. Like, there's no way, there's no way any of us could be asked to be our best selves all of the time when the world is on fire and we are all you know living in fear, and and rightfully so. I think I think that's another thing we can just cross off the list. We do not have to be perfect humans right now, and that's okay. That's okay. Or ever.

Maria 38:29

Yeah, we're doing our best with us, go dance, go laugh, go explore other identities so that you are able to create capacity to be with this grief as collectively. That's exactly what we're going through and what we're feeling, either because you are providing a service as a mental health therapist, or because you are leading people or associations, or because you decide to be a foster care, or you decide to be a godparent too, or you decide to write it, it's part of the journey if you are open to explore it. Yeah, that's right. Oh, Marisela, I am so thankful. Thank you for being my fire host because I feel like I'm always in fire, like, and you're like it.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Well, I'm glad that I'm that for you. I gotta like do that for myself sometimes. I'm like, girl, it's gonna be okay. Non-attachment, non-attachment. That's right.

Maria 39:34

Thank you. We are so lucky to have shared this time with you. For our listeners, we will have Marisol's information in the capacity that she will be able to respond to you. Please follow her, uh, not on Instagram right now because we're taking a break.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Taking a break.

Maria 39:52

Uh, which she that's another modeling, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Um just deactivate your account because then you're always tempted to go back.

Maria 40:01

Yes. Thank you, Marisa.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Thank you.

Maria 40:06

Thank you so much. Till next time. Bye.