[0:00] Music.

[0:10] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time. And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time. Jeff and I are two veteran Star Trek podcasters who joined forces to bring you Babylon 5 for the first time. And we had so much fun doing that, and we had so many requests from the folks out there. We decided to do it again with Stargate. And this is still not a Star Trek podcast by any means. So we like to play games here on the For the First Time series of podcasts and shows. In the original game, the OG is the rule of three. This limits us to no more than three references to Star Trek per episode. That's it. Three. Uno, dos, tres. No substitutions, exchanges, every. And it's awesome to make those references because then I get to play this sound.

[1:10] But there's a better sound because whenever we make a Babylon five reference now, since that's really our main jam right now, you're going to hear. Yes. All right, Brent, we are watching the torment of tantalus this week.

[1:26] I don't remember what I predicted this to be. I think I'd pulled out something super vague, um, on this one. And it's so vague. I don't even remember.

[1:36] I do remember. you said something about daniel jackson he's trying to reach for some trying to grasp something and it's just out of his reach that's right but you kept it super vague yeah i learned from the best why don't you tell us about this one well this is episode 11 of season one the torment of tantalus um fun enough we we talked about this uh last week um in greek mythology tantalus whom this particular episode is named after was the.

[2:05] Father of pill ops who was the gold from two episodes ago in brief candle the two really don't have a connection jeff at all uh the original air date for this episode was october 3rd 1997 jeff uh this is the first of only two episodes that is going to be directed by show creator jonathan glasner okay and it will also feature a uh as a guest actor in this episode um an actor who will eventually come back in a different role as a series lead uh the series regular on stargate atlantis okay okay cool so fun fun to see that we've certainly seen that before in star trek and other uh places you know about four years i'll get battle on five do what yeah here in about four years i'll get to see that hopefully it's not that long hopefully there's a lot of stargate sg1 is a long there's a lot to this show it's about twice of what babylon 5 is.

[3:09] That's just SG-1, but who knows where we might start mixing in Atlantis if we're going to even do Atlantis. We're not committed to that one yet. Who knows? Anyway, Jeff, why don't we go ahead and jump into this episode, Torment of Tantalus. For those of you playing along at home, the way this works is Jeff and I are going to go watch this episode right now. Like, we're going to do it right now. We're going to pause the creation of this podcast, and we're going to go watch the episode. Now, if you're watching with us on YouTube, you're going to get the reaction video because we're going to record a reaction video. That's going to come up right now. And if you want to see the full unedited reaction, well, head over to our Patreon page, patreon.com slash Babylon five first. And if you're one of our amazing listeners on a podcasting app like Apple podcasts or whatever else is out there these days, cast box and all that good stuff, we're going to break right here. And you're going to hear some stuff that happens. I'm not sure what it is. It's in the middle there. And when we come out of that, you're going to get to hear my first time reaction, my thoughts having watched this for the first time. And then you're going to get to hear Brent's take on any of the sci-fi messages that he was able to pull. Which is my first time. I'm watching for the first time for those messages. I've never watched the show for all the times I've seen it. I've never intentionally watched for those messages. So that's what I'm doing in this. And we've found some pretty great stuff and surprising stuff so far. So what do you say? Let's dive into the torment of Tantalus and see what you get out of this one Chevron seven locked.

[4:38] Music.

[5:04] You know, you seem a tad obsessed with this stuff. How many hours of this stuff have you looked at? There's no conclusion to the file. There's no summary, no notes, no reason to explain why they gave.

[5:14] Music. That's impossible. This doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't someone have told us this? I mean, why would they stop their research if they'd actually managed to turn.

[5:17] Something's happening. I saw like the gate is active.

[5:31] Music. And that dude is still out there somewhere. That is true. He is still out there somewhere. I'll give you three guesses what this episode's about now, Jeff. Right? Is this going to be a deep dive into the physical training aspects of the SG-1 crew? You. Oh, I thought that was all they were talking about. That was just the excuse to get Jack in the room to go, whoa, look at that. Yeah. So? Yeah, so the fact that they could see the Stargate, they're going to know the coordinates where he went, and let's go see where dude is. Let's go find out what happened. You also saw something I don't think you've seen before. They're turning the gate manually. Yeah, manually, which is pretty wild. They can manually turn the gate. It doesn't happen often, but they do occasionally dial the gate manually from time to time throughout the show. Hmm.

[5:32] It on? Because of what's about to happen to Diver Dude? Uh-oh. Holy cow.

[6:31] Miss Langford, there's a young man waiting for you in the kitchen. You had a strange young man in the house. So, Jeff, we'll stop. If you remember, I told you last week, I don't know if it was on mic or off mic, but this episode features a character from the film. Yes. I have to call back. This old lady is the character from the film. Her name is Catherine Langford.

[6:50] She was the person in charge of the Stargate program, and she personally recruited Daniel Jackson into the Stargate program. And she was in charge of the target program during the first uh the first mission until jack o'neill came in and took it over on the military side you know and i'll let you watch the film to to figure out the rest of it but that being said that's where the the interest is here um she also just so you know her father was the one who was leading the expedition that found the gate in egypt back in the 20s okay she was present she was present there and she had like a little medallion with the eye of raw and all that sort of stuff on it so okay new actress not the same actress as the film my god why are you back colonel o'neill said you stayed on abydos supposed to be a secret yes of course i never take it off i avoid my question what's this all about well i saw a video and i got questions because she probably would have been attached to the program in some way dr jackson was supposed to be or at least ancillary to this morning he's not her dad he's not answering our pages any idea where he is thousands of star dates planetary shifts didn't anyone think i might be interested that's why i came now six months later you could have told me sooner yes just like you could have told me there were experiments done on the gate in 1945 touche my father headed up a research team that worked on the gate during the war nothing ever came of it though how do you know the pentagon has recently been declassifying old materials they ran across a number of file boxes.

[8:15] Experimenting. They're going to declassify the Stargate program materials? You weren't involved in the research. And the multi-camera shoot that they had of that whole thing? 21-year-old girl at that time. I only know what little I overheard him and Ernest talking about. I'm sorry, who's Ernest? I see. I met him at camp. Are you using alternating or direct current to charge it? Alternating. He's like, don't you worry your pretty little head about that, sweetie. It might prevent the charge from bouncing back to the generator. And you should talk to my phone. I'm smarter than you, but you still have to talk to my dad. Yeah, what a magical time. You don't know that they turned the gate on in 1945. What? There you go. So the man who went through the gate is Ernest. Yes. My father must have lied to me. He said Ernest died in an accident. And we can go there. Oh, I hope she gets to go. And then they get the reunion. He's so romantic. Sir, if you will just let me explain. This is a serious breach of protocol. You think you're above them? No, no, I... Catherine! Clearly you do. Now, I have the address of the planet he went to, and we can go there. 321 Main Street. Yes, yes. Definitely want her to go. We know where Ernest Littlefield went. He could still be alive, a man who had the vision to see the gate for what it was a half a century before anyone else. He sounds like a bona fide American hero, sir. Ernest Littlefield could still be alive. We should try to find him.

[9:42] Hammond's a good dude man he really is like he plays the general boned up but, i do appreciate this moment here like like.

[9:51] Music. this is they're going to help her go through make sure she's good and safe she's about to have the ride of a lifetime she's so excited she's only dreamed of this before oh since she was 10 years old yeah, there she goes they're not cold So the cold thing went away. They fixed that. Yeah. Actually, it was more like they just didn't want to have to do it every single time you went through the gate. So we're just going to pretend like it didn't exist. We'll never talk about it again. You okay? Huh. That was some piece of cake. He's going to come get hugged by a little. Catherine. Is that you, Catherine? Let me come close. No, please keep your distance. No clothes, but he's got a monocle. Oh, when was the last time you had a bath?

[9:52] We know how easy gate travel is right now but they're helping uh 80 year old something like go through and really a woman who was instrumental through her advice and things like that to really make this work in the first place and then to bring in my mom yeah right, I love how she's got her arms hooked in and like,

[11:01] Music.

[11:35] 50 years hmm that's all he has to say you know who that is jeff that's the moment in the last jedi when ray is holding the lightsaber out to luke and they end they end the movie with force awakens and then they open back up on that one moment he's holding it out and he walks right up and he goes and he takes just toss it over it's the it's the same vibe right there same vibe uh so what we learned is is nelly and ryan johnson both are starting to watch this and wait it's hot in here so take off all yeah yeah because clearly dude took off all his clothes unless there's a reason to actually remove my clothes i would still be wearing at least something i imagine they probably disintegrated over time yeah i mean i wear a pair of jeans for a while and it starts disintegrate you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah i mean he's clearly been able to find food and water and yeah and and whatever he's needed as far as medical care goes or or at some point you've got to be able to bathe i think as a human i don't think you can just not bathe there's a dude there's actually a dude who didn't for like 60 or 70 years and then he took a bath and died shortly after really yeah all right well don't bathe earnest got it let's go i'll i'll go Let's see if I can find him. I wonder what her dad told him to help convince him to go to Stargate. He thinks Catherine has some negative view of him. It's an interesting theory.

[13:05] Music. Well, yeah, didn't you know Mass Effect totally stole from Stargate to build their show? I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have anything to wear? Have you heard the term manscaping before? We should probably talk about that. It's all falling off, man. He doesn't have to worry about that anymore. Looks like a robin's egg in a nest. There you go. He still has his diver's outfit, sort of. No one try again. That's a long story. It's not working. They don't have to do the effects. They can just do what normally happens in real life. Right. Just hit it. does this mean we're not going home he also might have never came back because he didn't know the address to get back to earth yeah he knew this place and didn't have all the stuff figured out or maybe he did they they clearly knew more about the gate back then than, once they shuttered the program yeah well since we're going to be here a while, i'd like to see something what come on we've seen plenty sir room there is especially in a storm, Now he's talking normal. Yeah, picking right up. Thanks. It's a physical specimen to aspire to. Oh, well this is helpful.

[13:08] So he's like, come to see me now. Right. After all that stuff your dad told me.

[14:32] Music.

[14:48] I'm dialing manual. To MacGyver it? But also, again, they said the manual thing, so. Wow.

[15:01] Music. One proton, one electron. They communicate just like they figured how to communicate with the 10C. I've been here a very long time remember for the record um uh she said that there's so many electrons and they're using the electrons to determine what the what the things are um elements are not determined by the number of electrons within the atom they're determined by the number of protons now typically the number of electrons matches the number of protons but not always so yeah protons is atomic weight right is that part of the atomic weight yeah okay it's the nucleus what's actually in the nucleus it's the electrons are the thing that fly around the outside okay yeah whatever just just saying she's she's not apparently a chemist although she knows about uh electricity in dc and ac current so whatever yeah that's not chemistry so it's fine yeah i'm gonna blame this one on the show writers yeah i think that's a fair thing to do and maybe your own pedantry things these images are the graphical representations of the basic elements 11 elements on the periodic table 118 of course how do you ensure universal communication You reduce the.

[15:04] Even if it wasn't the United Nations, it probably means something. High school chemistry.

[16:07] Music.

[16:14] Method of communication to the most basic elements common to everyone and everything that exists in the universe. It totally is the discovery plot. This is a true universal language. Once again, Star Trek just ripping off other great shows.

[16:27] Music.

[16:55] Dropped? Yeah. Was that the whole go home thing? Yeah. Oh, shoot. Yeah. Hey, guys. So, uh, a little update. What's up, guys? Dial home device just fell through the floor into the ocean. So what are we going to do? That thing may have a power source in it that we can use to get the gate working. But then we're going to lose all this stuff. Daniel's going to be faced with a decision like this again? Shoot it. I mean, you've got to respect the fact that both gates of Daniel just makes the decision. Why didn't they use the staff? Isn't the staff a power source? He just said it's not powerful enough. Oh. He did ask. What about the staff? It's not powerful. I'm clearly paying very close attention. Pause button. What's that first time watched? Come on. Gosh, Jeff. Here he goes. What about the staff? What about using energy from Tulk's staff? It isn't powerful enough. I saw it. There's not much time. You have to get inside that thing. Michael Shanks can talk faster than anybody I've ever known in my life. Like, he can just...

[17:54] Now what i'm obviously no scientist but uh isn't lightning wouldn't we use that ben franklin thing there you go there you go i like i like how he references ben franklin instead of i don't know back to the future yeah right like, come on lightning's gonna hit the clock tower i just you know energy and many much more relevant solar static if we could channel a lightning strike into the gate it might provide us with enough power to dial in and make 21 gigawatts not directly we'll have to rig something up on the roof and how much power does it take to power the charge doesn't destroy the, I was a fool. Honest, you suffered enough. No sense wasting time in the past. Right? All we have is news.

[18:45] Music.

[19:03] What you did was courageous what i did was stupid come on boys we gotta go now i'm staying what, look i will be fine down here daniel we can call it right with daniel you're the one who can do this because you're exactly the same as if i stay i could unbury the gate again what if the gate falls into the ocean i am willing to take that risk i'm not let's go check he put hands on him Yeah. There was a time when it was actually okay. Mm-hmm. But considered okay, I wouldn't fly today. No. This was 97, right? So I was in the service at this time, and we were in that phase where it was becoming not okay. By policy, it wasn't okay. In practice, it was becoming okay. Let's go. I would just like to recognize, if it's not okay now, it really wasn't okay then? Piece of cake. Yeah, it was never okay. It was socially accepted.

[19:59] Music. Perfect time. Close one. It's got to be wild for him to watch all this. Last time he was here, they were pulling it with their hands. Well, he's looking at these computers going, what is that? Yeah, right? All the lights and everything. It doesn't immediately give you cancer. At least he's had a bath right now.

[19:59] It always cracks me up knowing that in reality, all of the stuff falling on moment plays like two ounces. Right, it's all styrofoam. The worst thing is going to be the spray paint if it rubs off. It's hard to get out.

[20:41] Music.

[21:07] All right jeff that was torment of tantalus we've just watched it like 30 seconds ago finish the episode you are hot off the presses jeff what you got fresh as can be dude i loved this episode i thought you might so good you might yeah you know when uh in our watch of babylon 5 there are episodes we get done and we're like how did they fit two hours of content into 44 minutes right oh yes that's this episode i feel like this was a film the story they told the emotions they took us through were incredible at the beginning of this episode i knew that a little bit about Catherine, you had told me within minutes, I was begging for the dude who went through the Stargate to be the dude that left her so we could have a reunion. And then we almost got it till he no sold her and just took off. You know, what's going on?

[22:10] Right, right. I loved it because it set up so many things that just looked like, oh, everything's just going to work out and it's going to be fine. You know, when you think about it, Daniel went to find Catherine, tried to talk her you know learn some stuff from her and then talk her into coming to check stuff out that worked out really well came in general hammond's all mad at him but jack makes it fine and hammond's actually fine everything's just going fine right but then stuff starts falling apart and it starts when uh when earnest is like eh catherine and takes like whoa what's going on here you know and uh some of it got predictable right like i was able to i knew pretty early on this place is going to start falling apart the way that they were teasing out the sounds and the physical stuff the need so they're out of power and the fact that there's this lightning storm building up okay we're gonna we're gonna have to do the back to the future thing and do the lightning right right but uh.

[23:09] But I mean, it's on a TV, right? You set the stuff up and you pay it off. It was excellent. It was so fun. But there's so much lore in this episode. I'm just going to go through a couple of bullets I have here. Yeah. So they were running experiments on the gate in 1945. Yeah. And it was Catherine's dad who first discovered it in the 20s? 28, I believe, was the year we were given. And do we know that from the movie? I believe so. I think it's from the movie. I think they have said 1928 in the show once or twice, but don't quote me on that. Okay. I think that's the number that sticks out in my head. By the way, don't do the math on it where she's like, I was 21 and this was it. I was 10. Don't do it. It's okay. Numbers are great. People are estimating. Yeah. I was going to say, numbers are great because they never lie. Right. They can also tell you whatever they want to tell you. Yes.

[24:09] So, okay. So that was, that's kind of a big deal. I guess in my head, I thought that the discovery, I thought everything around the Stargate started with the movie. Like they discovered it and it was a new thing. I didn't realize at this point that like she was running a research thing on it and there was work and that it went back that far. So, so from the movie, just so you know, basically the, the opening scene of the movie is Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[24:38] The the guy's doing king tut's tomb like it just it's that feel in egypt somebody comes running and like we found something we found something we found something and they go you know the, the the white guy who's the boss yeah you know who he walks out there and they go see something and next thing we know they've got all these ropes around this big circular object and they pull it up and there's a stargate and here's this little girl running around and she has this necklace on right and then the movie flashes forward and we see this older lady who still has this necklace and it's today you know and and so that's really the what we're not given in the movie what happened between one or the other it's just she was the little girl on the dig way back when and now she's running the program this episode actually gave us some of what was going on back then yeah it fills in a lot of the past which is cool i like the way they formatted the episode too where it would just kind of phase in and out of some flashbacks and i think that was that was part of what made this feel bigger than it was like yeah the episode never rushed it spent time in all these different places like i we talked about you know the dad like we felt stuff from the dad in a couple seconds you know that we got to see him so i mean they really maximized all the screen time.

[26:05] This planet that they found here that they were able to dial in that first time wasn't on the cartouche they found at Abydos. So uncharted, you know, essentially, you know, unknown.

[26:19] They said that means. Unknown to the Gould. Exactly. Yeah. So that's what they were saying. That means that the Gould have not found it yet. And they said a thing.

[26:28] I forget who said it. It might have been Daniel. um and it kind of picks up on the thor's hammer theme of trying to really find evidence that the ghoul did not build the stargates yeah so i think that's like it's a theory that they're feeling is probably right but they're looking for that evidence for it i found it interesting though so it's heliopolis which is very egyptian abydos egyptian abydos though ruled by gould gods no gould over here so like where's the crossover that brings the egyptian stuff yeah i was actually thinking about that in this episode i think when ernest mentioned heliopolis he wasn't saying this is heliopolis it's like he was just saying this is like heliopolis and daniel was like oh because heliopolis was a meeting place of the minds where people got to get them together and discuss stuff and oh yeah they actually used to worship raw and they just sort of let that go in the episode which didn't matter but i think it was more i don't think it was this is heliopolis as much as okay think about heliopolis that's what i think this place was that was the other piece of lore that came out of this was this apparently based on the languages that were there and the evidence that ernest was able to find four alien groups came together in this meeting place and worked some stuff out.

[27:57] What they worked out, we don't know. Like a United Nations of sorts, they said. Yeah. Yeah. We don't know what they were working out. We know that they were using a universal, well, we have the assumption that they were using a universal language based on chemistry.

[28:11] Which, and I said this during the reaction, so I'm not going to buzz myself again, but that was basically the entire plot to season four of Star Trek Discovery. They made a point of noting the Norse language that was up on the walls and bringing us back again to the fact that Thor was an alien. Like they said it in an episode, they followed it up in an episode. I feel like they're wanting us to be sure that we understand that. And not just that Thor was an alien, but that Thor's race is one of these four ancient races. And what we also learned from last week's episode that rate that at least that one race now we don't know about these others but that one race they are way more powerful than the cruel yeah at least we assume they are like what we know yeah yeah i mean look what they could do and they're like we told the system lords they got to stay out of this place by this decree not an agreement by this decree yeah subsection whatever and you violated it and now you die.

[29:16] Like and i think what's important there too is that subsection from the system lords specifically said the gould so like if we start piecing some things together the gould haven't found this place but the norse gods the aliens were involved in this i can start really seeing how the gould came up and are really seen as just like this pest this infestation that's awful and they'll take, they're like locusts, right? You don't check them. They'll take over. They'll kill everything in their past and their path. But if you check them, like which we saw with Thor's hammer, then you're fine. Like you just, just got to kill them. Just got to squash these things. But in most of the galaxy, they're running around unchecked because these four, I'm going to call them the first four, which I think is now going to give kind of an overarching story if throughout the series as they try to find them, um, so that they can then come back together as the final four.

[30:16] I don't know. Okay. Okay. Last big thought on this one. This episode did a great job hitting the emotional highs and lows. And the soundtrack was perfectly executed. Yeah. I really enjoyed and appreciate the construction of this episode. Jeff, let me ask you. How would you be if you were alone for 50 years? For my Star Trek podcast, the Starfleet Leadership Academy, I watched the Voyager episode one. And it's so great. I do a couple things in the Starfleet Leadership Academy. Primarily, I'm trying to extract leadership and management lessons from this whole thing. This doesn't happen often where I had a plan of what I was going to talk about. But I ended up like the story took me in an entirely different direction, but I was really struck in that episode about how she spent a month, 30 days on her own and was on the verge of self harm and destruction of the ship because she, the walls between fantasy and reality were so shaken for her.

[31:31] And when I was talking about that, I went to here in the United States, we have a, barbaric inhumane practice in our prison systems of solitary confinement yeah and in every single case there is extreme damage physical damage to the brain and then that you know manifests in personalities and mental health and just i mean it's it is arguably the worst thing you can do to another person is isolate them but think think about this okay uh in parenting yeah okay i've got a kid who's about old enough and this is the most effective thing i can do to him what do i do when he misbehaves go to your room you're grounded oh yeah oh my gosh yeah it's horrible if he can't go see his friends for two or three days yeah sometimes having the break for a day or two isn't bad but like he needs to get out and go see his kids like he's gonna be his boys we need we need that we are, we are a communal species, you know, and it's, it's, it's necessary for us. So in that episode, I went down that path and I learned so much about the dangers, the long lasting effects of solitary confinement. So when I take all of that and I lay it over 50 years, five, zero years, I wouldn't survive it. I would not survive 50 years alone. So that's my first reaction, initial reaction to this whole thing. I really dug it.

[32:59] Um, I am, uh, I'm just going to spoiler alert. I'm really anxious about the ranking on this one because, um, I got feelings, but there have been some other great episodes in this, uh, in this season. So, but before we get to that, Brent, you watched this episode for the first time with the lens of what kind of sci-fi messages are buried in this or apparent in this. So why don't you tell us what you got out of your experience viewing this one you know i actually have a whole list of notes and that it all comes boiling down i love i love when shows do this they boil it all down into one tiny phrase that is perfect ernest littlefield says this no prize is worth attaining if you cannot share it there is no point that is a lesson that we should all do well to learn this was the lesson that uh it's different from daniel's lesson from last week i know you compared this a lot to daniel from last week where daniel had to make the choice to shoot the thor's hammer in order to save teal.

[34:10] And this time he had to make the choice to at least stand aside while they destroyed this thing that meant a whole lot he said i'm willing to stay behind yeah and jack goes i'm not willing for you to stay behind you know because because he cares jack cares about daniel yeah you know um.

[34:31] It takes a smart person, a brave person to know what's really important in life. For Ernest, he learned the hard way that he should not have chosen his curiosity over his love, his career, over what would have been his family. Catherine was bitter and chose to live with bitterness. Even if she thought he was dead there was still something in her that that flickered real fast right but she she explicitly said she never forgave him yeah yeah and yeah and again daniel was about to risk his life to stay behind knowing the likelihood was that he would be trapped.

[35:15] And yeah you could just just come back and get me no we can't because the whole gate might be gone, and you know what we don't have cool ships to fly over here and get you so but he's like i don't care i'm gonna no because no prize is worth attaining if you cannot share it otherwise there is no point jeff my actually i guess would have been my third podcast show called the pewter cast uh it was covered covered the tampa bay buccaneers um that show blew up it's big it was it was huge. It was huge. It still is in many ways. Um, but it was huge. It was in the time when, when sports podcasting was still a new thing and it really led the way we got to work with the NFL and helping to define what media is new media. Uh, and you know, think about the NFL owns a day of the week. If they start saying this is media, guess what? Because media is changing. Anyway, we got to do the thing. The show was amazing. The show was going great. It was at its height.

[36:20] And my kid came to me one day. He was, I don't know, eight, nine years old. And he says, and we always read to him before he goes to bed. He said, Daddy, Daddy, you going to read to me tonight? I said, sorry, buddy. I can't tonight because I have to podcast. And i felt myself throwing up in my mouth as i said that and i walked as i was walking upstairs to go do the show i said i am never saying that to him again it's not going to happen and it was later that night that i told my co-host i'm leaving the show wow the show that i started my, my baby. Um, and it was a hundred, a thousand percent because of my son and boring. I'm going to keep this first. No podcast is worth having. If I can't share it with the joy of not just a co-host, but my family.

[37:16] Nope. Day one for us rule. Number one yeah was this podcast will never supersede anything in our personal lives and both of us various times during the shoot year and a half or so we've been doing this last minute hey not tonight daughter needs something oh kid this wife this cool no problem every time every time not even never it's not even a question not even a question because we we established this from go Yeah, there's just part of the DNA of this show. Yeah, exactly. But my the point of that being I love this phrase.

[37:55] No prize is worth attaining if you can't hear it. Um, at some point you've got to be responsible at some point you've got to know what is actually valuable and what is not, it may not be your career. It may not be your curiosity of what's going on through there. Anyway, uh, that's what I'm going to go with on this one is that line. No prize is worth attaining. If you can never share it, otherwise there is no point.

[38:22] So the question falls to me is how many chevrons, how, how strong is that message on a scale of zero to five chevrons uh jeff i think ultimately that's what this episode was about everything flew to that one i mean it all pointed from katherine's story to earnest's story both sides of it they presented a problem they discussed it we showed it they showed us both sides of it and how it goes wrong with earnest and katherine and then you put daniel right in middle of a similar situation and he had to make that decision and listen to the old folks say don't do this hey you could also probably pull another message of listen listen to those who've gone before you right you know i've had a lifetime trust me on this one yeah i think this is a five chevron episode jeff like because it went to that like were they intentional about this and put it to that spot? Yes, they did. Five chevrons. The whole listening to the people who've gone before you. There's so many pieces of wisdom that are just part of our vernacular, right? We just know, but clearly in this episode shows, we don't take to heart. The one that I'm thinking here is what is the one thing every person bemoans or complains about or regrets on their deathbed?

[39:44] Spending time with their loved ones no one is like oh i should have discovered that thing i should have wrote that thing i should have put in the hours they're like i wish i would have spent more time with the people i care about yeah we've all heard that but you know what we're all doing, we're all writing that thing we're all recording the podcast we're all putting in the extra hours at the expense of the thing that we know we're going to regret not spending our time with.

[40:12] Listen to the people who came before us yeah and just to be clear there's nothing wrong with writing that thing or doing that podcast or discovering that thing you're just doing that at the expense yeah and it doesn't mean that that other thing dominates everything else you pull it into conjunction it's an interdependence anyway uh jeff before we go any further we do want to update our tracking sheet we are tracking a few things over the course of the show just for fun we got to cry out loud in this episode which brings my my tracking total up to seven i haven't missed one uh but that brings us up to seven we got one daniel death on the screen and uh we're still waiting on a few of the others to kick in for number one, uh jeff that being said i gave this one five chevrons i i rated this episode you sir get to rank this episode you get to place this episode on our 100 completely accurate immutable, ranking of season one of stargate sg1 our top five currently jeff is the nox sitting all the way up at top and number one cold lazarus sitting at number two brief candle at number three the broker divide at number four and i believe this is probably the week where children of the gods is going to get pushed out of the top five. Jeff, what you got for us?

[41:32] You know, I look at the top three, the top two specifically, and I feel like. You say top three? No. Yeah. Look at the top two here. Well, I was just going to say, look at that, and I think in terms of, like, the knocks, I feel like at this point in the viewing thing, the community is probably like, yeah, yeah, that's probably the right call. You know, I feel good on that. Cold Lazarus, people don't feel so good about. Like, that's a Jeff. It's your TKO of.

[41:58] 100%. This is the thing that spoke to me in a way. No, but you know, I'm sorry. Can I defend the cold Lazarus thing? Cause I never would have put it up at number two, but you made a really good point. It, it, it is, it is not a fun episode. It's not one we want to watch again, but it is incredibly poignant, which makes it a great episode that I just don't really ever want to watch. So this though torment of tantalus made me feel and it made me feel so many things roller coaster of emotions also it was super entertaining it was super educational around what this whole stargate thing is this had everything this episode did more to immerse me in the world of stargate than even children of the gods did brent this is our new number one episode has to be has to be yeah absolutely i agree i agree and that is no knock on the knocks because i love that episode as well.

[43:01] It's almost like the number one episode is the Torment of Tantalus. And then the Knox is actually number eight. Like there's that much of a divide between maybe not number eight, but like this episode sits high above, in my opinion, what we've seen so far. This one, this is a different tier of episode. Well, Jeff, I think that's going to do it for us here talking about Torment of Tantalus. Next time, the name of our episode is Bloodlines.

[43:31] Dun dun dun jeff you care to venture a guess as to what this episode could be about they're gonna go to a planet that's my prediction no they're gonna go to a planet there's going to be um a royal family essentially okay and there's they're gonna when they show up there's gonna be a usurper or someone with a claim like i'm thinking season one game of thrones right where uh where ned is going through trying to track down all of robert's bastard sons for everything it's going to be kind of similar to that and it's going to be a question of do the bloodlines rule you know and like what is the right way to to parse all of this out you're a good guesser jeff you're a good guesser keep saying that one of these days i'm going to hit it so well we are going to see next time exactly how close or far away jeff is right here on Stargate SG one for the first time. Hey, thank you guys so much for joining us. Please, wherever you get your podcast, don't forget to subscribe.

[44:32] If you're joining us on YouTube, please don't forget to like as well as subscribe, hit that bell icon, share this video, share the podcast. Best way to get the word out is through you word of mouth. Say, Hey, I found this cool podcast and you guys would also enjoy it because you love Stargate SG one, or you love Babylon five, or you like Star Trek. And here's these two Trekkies that are checking at these other two shows. Check us out or maybe you know somebody who needs to get into SG-1 for the first time and they just need somebody to do it with and we would be happy for them to join us in our journey.

[45:05] That being said, we're going to get out of here. So thank you guys so much for joining us this week. We will see you right back here next week on Stargate SG-1. Yeah. I got a question for you. It's kind of a style fashion question. Do you think I should put some clothes on or is it cool to just let this thing hang out? Oh, I know.

[45:23] Music.