Show and Tell

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Show and Tell - Season 2, Episode 20

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Transcript

SG1_220 Show and Tell

[0:00] Music.

[0:15] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time. Still not a Star Trek podcast.
My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time.
And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time.
But for the first time, I am watching this for the sci-fi messages Stargate's trying to teach us. Those lessons that hold up a mirror to society.

[0:35] Give us hope that things could be better in the future, which is interesting in a show that is set in the present day.
Or just teach us how we can be better human beings to one another.
Let's see if we get any of that this week. We're watching show and tell this is an episode that I think, uh, some, one of the, uh, groups that we've met in the past are going to come into the SGC and they're going to show something to them and then they'll tell about it.
Hey, oh, oh, wait. So we'll see what happens.
Brett, can you enlighten us with some cool facts on show and tell.
Yes. Episode 20 season two show and tell getting towards the end here, Jeff original air date, January 27th, 19.
While my note says 1993, that is not correct.

[1:14] This would be 1999 pulled one from the annals yes yes this episode written by uh jonathan glassner one of the big names i've talked to you about another big name in this particular episode peter delouise is the director yeah we had him just a few weeks ago yes yes uh in this particular episode peter delouise inserts himself in as a cameo i'll point him out when we get there does he look like his dad that's what i don't tell me i want it like that's i'm excited just let you try to find him yeah yeah okay all right i'll do that like give you give you a chance to see if you can catch him but if you miss him you want me to point him out yeah do yeah if i miss him i'm very astute so we'll see we'll see we'll see but yeah he is the son of dom deluise um here's the other thing jeff you know one of the things you've been tracking here's a spoiler you've been tracking lately some of the gear upgrades that we've been getting there's actually a pretty cool gear upgrade that is one of those things like it's just always been at the SGC to me.
And I forget when I watch these early seasons, like they didn't have it until turns out this episode.
I'm like, oh, yeah, that's where that is. Okay, cool.

[2:23] Nice because it just it just becomes a thing that's just always there anyway be on the lookout for that you will i'm i promise you you're going to reckon you're going to know exactly what i'm talking about as soon as you see it it might be like the first thing in the episode or something like that i think like the uav it's like literally starts with hey we're flying this thing through yeah there you go yeah it's kind of kind of on that level kind of on that level so with that jeff why don't we go ahead and jump into this episode if you're just joining us for the very first time first of all welcome to the show we're glad you're here we're glad you made it, and the way this works is jeff and i are going to go watch this episode for the first time like right now right now no we're not going to stop the video we're not going to pause the video go away and then you're going to see some cut where it's going to come back and do all this, we're going to do it live right now if you're one of our phenomenal patrons over at patreon.com link down in the show notes you guys will be able to watch the full unedited version however if you're watching the free version out on youtube you're amazing you're awesome uh you're gonna get the youtube cut if you're listening on an audio podcast you're about to gate into the future we're gonna meet you on the other side you're gonna miss the episode itself but you'll get to hear all of our conversations my first time reactions brent's sci-fi messages that he finds I can't wait to see Peter Deloes.
Let's get in here and start show and tell. Chevron 7 locked.

[3:44] Music.

[4:01] All right jeff we have just watched show and tell for the very first time um jeff you got something over your shoulder there pal oh i do hard to make out it's kind of hard to make oh god.

[4:13] It would be, that'd be wild if that was mother passed away three, almost four years ago.
Weird. And I didn't, I didn't tell you that we were going to be going back watching, you know, the first couple episodes of Babylon five again.
For those weren't watching along, we had the, uh, the re two, they're like a slightly greener version of the shadows and they got the invisibility thing going on and much more powerful weapons though.
I think, you know what it is? it's it's the shadows from the northern country okay right yeah the northern continent just a little a little more hedritches or whatever yeah so the point of this episode right is that we have a new ongoing threat the retu and uh it's cool concept for an alien like we didn't talk about it during the episode but they are basically 180 degrees out of phase with us so we can't see them can't detect them anything but they somehow can see and detect us even though we're also 180 and 80 degrees out of phase and it's pretty wild what they're doing. So the story was that.
The Gould showed up and wiped out, all but wiped out the Ritu.
And this rebel group came up and they're like, we got to beat the Gould, but we can't.
They're so much more powerful than we are, even though they have these like mini nuke weapons and stuff like that.
But I mean, let's not let the details in the story bog everything down here.
But they said, we're going to beat these dudes by attrition.
And the way to do that is to eliminate all the potential hosts.

[5:40] Wow. So you've got billions of humans in Tauri.
You've got the Unas and his race that are there. We know that they can be hosts. Are there others?
Like, are we just talking complete genocide of everyone except the Ritu?
Right, right. So, and I loved how the episode ended in that like, hey, so you fought off these Ritu, but they'll be back.
And you're not going to know when it comes because your early detection device is one dude who happens to be with SG-1 and out on missions all the time.
Fair point. But the, the thing I loved in this episode, like the, the, the re too, I, again, I love the kind, the concept. It was well done.
The con we had the concept last week with the sound thing, which was a cool concept and horribly executed, like this offensively executed.
This was great. This was really well done. And when they go to the planet and they see like the army of them, it, it, it evoked thoughts Lots of starship troopers.
Just really great sci-fi callbacks and touch points in this one. Yeah.
So the cool thing, though, in this whole episode, like that's the story and the plot stuff. We got to see the Tok'ra. We saw Jacob again.
Cool stuff. That was great. I love that.
But we got to see Jack O'Neill do more stuff than be a smartass who kicks ass.
You know what? I need a t-shirt that just has a picture of Jack O'Neill with his sunglasses on.

[7:02] Smartass who kicks ass. I need that t-shirt. That's what he does most of the time. I've talked about it a couple of times.
He doesn't get a lot of meat, but when he does, right. I think about cold Lazarus. I think about this.
I think about, uh, the one where he's pushed up against the thing, you know, and, uh, I liked that episode, but I forget what it was called, but the alien shot out at him, but when he gets his moments, God, you see why Robert Dean Anderson is the lead on this show.
I, I want Jack O'Neill to be my dad.
He was great rolling with the mother thing.
Thing just kind of assuming it was an imaginary friend and he's like I'm gonna I'm not gonna judge I'm not gonna be weird I'm just gonna play along because it's real to this kid so I'm gonna make it real as I can and then just you know connecting with him talking to him and the kids crying and this is a thing I I'm gonna I want to talk about and I don't know if you have it for your sci-fi messages but to me it's the biggest piece of this episode but they talked basically about I mean I mean, it's a dirty word, but toxic masculinity in a way of like, you know, dudes of an age, my age, your age.

[8:09] In the neighborhood like we grew up and you don't cry right like it's not good they challenged that here right and they talked about it but it was so cool how he did it the kids like i'm crying and i shouldn't cry he's like there's a definitive list of reasons you should cry number six is this and number five and just rolled with it it was so great you know you know what's you know what's great about that on a masculinity level there's an old phrase a long time ago only masculinity Masculinity can bestow masculinity upon others.
You know, it's, it's not just masculinity. It's, it's whenever you're being admitted to the club, you can only really be admitted by the members of the club kind of a thing. It's, it's that general idea, right?

[8:49] There's the, the, the toxic idea, right? Which was very much alive and well in the nineties. It still is in many ways today.
I got to admit, I find myself often with my son going, son, you need to suck that up, man.
Don't you be out here crying. Uh, it's not okay.
You cannot show weakness like i find myself saying especially when it comes to football and there's i'm not i don't think i'm wrong about that but jack does a great job of going no that's not true here's all the places that you cry you just don't need to be crying over here yeah i think it's such an important point and it's a thing i've spent a lot of time on myself personally and working that like i don't care if you're a dude not a dude whatever we all have feelings and emotions and we have to feel them. They are all valid.
They are all okay. And they all need to run through us, but not, we're not, we're not animals, right?
We can have emotional regulation and say, Hey, I feel this.
I'm going to, I'm not going to push it down. I'm going to set it aside and I'm going to come back to it later.
You're in the middle of a football game and you get, take a big hit. You don't stop and cry.
You rub some dirt on it. You take, you go out there, you finish the game.
And after you're out of the locker room and you have some time, you then, Then you let it go. You feel the whole thing.

[10:02] It's interesting how you talk about that with Jude, where you talk about that with your son, where, you know, don't cry, you know, don't show weakness, all those things.

[10:11] I, and I wonder how much of this I'm, as I'm thinking this, I wonder how much of this is like gender, uh, you know, normal as like kind of stuff where with my daughter, but she'll cry, she'll get upset.
And what I always tell her, I'm like, Hey, do you have something you want to talk about something, something on your mind? You want to share a thing?
No, no. And I'm just sad. sad well it's okay to be sad it's okay to be sad it's okay for you to be crying it's all right and when you talk about it it helps and I'm always here to for you to talk to I want to hear the things you have to say but like I actively encourage her to feel and express those emotions yeah also in an appropriate time and place you know like don't do it at the dinner table you know you're old enough now that you're not going to have a breakdown at the dinner table but you can excuse yourself and stuff and so she's developed a habit that comes up or she'll get upset and she'll kind of bite her lip and she'll say i need a little alone time and she'll go in her room and we give her that alone time and it's great but this episode showed that you know and it showed it it showed it in a 90s way in the 90s that i can see that seed planted and how like in a guy like me how it's it's germinating here you know a quarter century later there you go i think that's really what this episode did and it was done beautifully this was this is a good episode Brent I liked it and it did I think what it did for me wasn't what it intended to do but it was really powerful and it's the thing I'm going to take out of this one.

[11:32] I can't say i personally love this episode or i like this episode but i watch this episode every time i do a rewatch yeah you know what i mean like i like it enough i don't hate this episode by any stretch of.

[11:44] The imagination there may be some more other there may be some other episodes i want to get to a little sooner uh this.

[11:50] Episode's a little heavy it's it's a.

[11:52] Little heavy so you know particularly like so when i'm kind of going through i i don't like the heavy usually i want just kind of light fun you know the good times let's let the good times roll and that that tends to be what i'm looking for but i do like this episode i like how it it comes about and comes through i it's interesting to me that you picked up on all of that because i think a lot of times our judgment of an episode really comes down to how it made you feel part of why one false step last week was so bad is that it was boring and evacuated all feeling from me i walked into that with emotions and then halfway through i'm like i have nothing i'm a shell there's nothing left there is nothing here yeah you didn't make me mad you didn't make me upset you didn't make me happy you didn't make me cry you didn't piss me off you just made me not care you made me as apathetic as possible because that was kind of the tone you were going for here you know here i thought they did a great job of endearing charlie to jack my god taking his son's name yeah we suddenly start caring for charlie we see what's going on you know there you don't really know what's going on with the whole mother thing and then oh actually she's real oh he's actually got you know he cares for his mom if we'll put it that way you know and then she's like yeah you probably ought to stay here with your own kind okay cool he's gonna be here but oh now we've got all this other stuff going on And yeah, it's, it's, it's.

[13:21] Decent it's solid when we walked into this you mentioned there's some new tech yeah was that the ter that was not what i was thinking of but that that is certainly a part of it uh but no um they they upgraded the iris computer with the hand thing oh okay so you'll see them every time they go to open the open iris they put the they put their hand on it i said i forget when i re-watched this on the early episodes that they don't have the iris thing yeah it didn't register as much as the ter and because i'm like oh this is kind of cool it's pretty powerful and they're gonna get some more of these with their zip guns and stuff too so yeah yeah in addition to what we've talked about here did you pull any other sci-fi messages out of this one you know not not really um i think it's just one of those episodes man and we've often talked about how uh with with star trek specifically because we kind of use that as our uh the thing because that's what you do with star trek is you overanalyze the episode totally for everything and we we particularly back in babylon 5 when we were still doing deltas and we were specifically looking for what we called, star trek messages uh i i think one of the things that has helped me is i i actually jeff i will tell you in my notes for babylon 5 even right now.

[14:35] The the category like the section still says star trek messages really because i copy and paste the template and i've just never changed the template and people like we'll go change it right now i probably should but i'm not so i probably tend to say star trek messages when we're doing babylon 5 just because that's what's right there really what i mean is sci-fi messages and i have sci-fi messages here on our notes for stargate so i i probably ought to change that i'm not promising I will, but, uh, there are star Trek episodes that would not be episodes that get a whole lot of deltas, right?
Deltas were our, our rating as far as like how strong the message was, uh, how strong did it do and the toxic masculinity?
That's a neat conversation to have. I was gonna say, I don't think that's the point of what's going on here.
Um, and I, I do, you know, we've, we've gotten into recently talking about a lot of intentionality. I don't think that was an intention at all.

[15:32] I think a lot of this really was plot, plot, plot.
You know, let's have a little adventure right here on the base.
No new sets, no new whatever.
We can just go. You know, they have one location shot that they had to go out and get or seen. I mean, and they're done.
I feel bad giving it like no chevrons, but I'm just not there.
I'm not there on this episode.
I can't disagree. agree, I think, you know, even, even talking about the, the crying and the, and the stuff that you, that I thought was such a great message, not intentional.
I think that was put there just, just to show that Jack, you know, like remind us that Jack was a dad and he, and he's got these instincts and, and that's a good reminder for us, you know, from a, from a plot standpoint.

[16:17] And, and I think I, even when I was talking about it, I'm like here a court 25 years later, I'm really close to the day actually, from when we're talking about it.

[16:26] That i can i can see that seed that was planted and turned into this and grown in 1999 i probably would have watched that and literally just thought oh look look how cool jack is actually you probably would have thought man i want to be like jack like that's a role model i was in my early 20s in 1999 i probably would have thought i want him as my dad there you go although my dad was amazing and awesome but still jack would have been a great dad we're tracking a couple things right We are. Yeah, absolutely.
We got two for crying out louds. One of them is not even a Jack one, but considering that the kid was imitating Jack, I'm going to count it.
Totally counting it, totally counting it. So we're going to add a couple of for crying out louds. We're not though, we've decided counting the indeed.
Tilk said the word indeed, but it wasn't the indeed that he, that he often says.
So this is going to bring us up to 15 for crying out loud so far for Jack.
Wow wow yeah which actually feels a little bit light to me a little bit light we got five daniel deaths on screen we've got one tilk indeed so far it's exciting stuff there you go there you go well jeff uh talk to us about the ranking where do you put this on the 100 completely accurate definitive season two ranking of stargate sg1 when when i during the episode i talked about maybe it was during the episode or maybe it was in the in the conversation here either way at At some point, I talked about how Jack doesn't get a lot of meat in this.

[17:52] In Stargate, a lot of times, he's just the smart ass that kicks ass.
When they give him meat, it's incredible.
And so when I'm looking at this ranking, this is not a top 10 episode from what we've seen so far.
But it's not like a bottom five or anything like that. This is a middling episode. It's good.
It was entertaining. entertaining kind of neat but i'm really gonna land on jack and what did what did rda what did robert dean anderson get to do and what did i like and so when i look at this there's message in a bottle right and that was him pinned up against the wall and and kind of his focus point and i really enjoyed that episode i like this one a little better this is going to be our new number 11 there you go number i feel like that's probably a pretty decent spot for it yeah yeah that seems about right that seems about right because below that if i go down there's you got message in a bottle there's matter of time uh need family bane gamekeeper prisoners one false step yeah that feels that feels a inappropriate place.

[18:57] And I feel like when looking at this list at this point, I feel like need is kind of the fold in the paper where everything above need, it's at least a decent episode, if not an amazing episode.
And then need isn't awful. And then down below, you're just like, yeah, I could do without any of those. Well, maybe not any of them, but they're not great.
There's only one that actually just makes me go, blah, that's one false step.
In fact, I'm going to do a thing here on our ranking list.
No, you're going to do this. Yep. you're gonna do this okay go for it there we go i was a little surprised you didn't do this last week yeah that people don't know what we're talking about because you see it i see it we don't actually have the graphic up here jeff just took one false step from number 19 and went and placed it at 22 and this in 1920 and 21 are just empty right now which is weird because there's only two episodes left in the season we call this the ranking of the round table move is what that is there you go.

[19:57] If you know you know oh my gosh you're gonna you're gonna blow up the comments man yeah i just threw a threw a bee hand grenade into the whole thing all right well that is gonna do it for us this week then talking about show and tell next time jeff we're watching cool episode but you can't guess what this one's about title of the episode 1969.
Just 1969. that's the title of the episode 1969.
I know exactly what it's going to be about no you don't i do there's no way no way jack is gonna get his first real six string he'll buy it at the five and dime he'll play it till his fingers bleed he'll uh oh jeff it's either gonna be that or it's gonna be it's gonna be voyager 1159 right where like they go back and it's gonna be an origin story of like well that can't be an origin story because it starts but it'll be like oh yeah, we're going to go back and relive this pivotal moment in the Stargate program kind of a thing.
But I'm going to make my official guess that we're going to do the Brian Adams treatment for this one.

[21:02] Because why not? This is the show that would do that. All right.
Well, you're a good guesser, Jeff. I'm sure.
Hey, listen, we'll see you guys next time here on Stargate SG1.
For the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast.
Thank you guys for joining us. Please don't forget, wherever you're getting this, please subscribe, like, share, rate.
Rank review all those sort of things it really helps us out a whole lot uh helps other people know how awesome things are happening and please remember if you want more jeff and i head over to patreon.com slash whatever it is links down in the in the description below and you guys can get behind the scenes footage you can get unedited footage you can get early access to episodes and show notes and uh you can get uh exclusive stuff meet and greets access to our discord channel jeff which is amazing which is really cool that that community over there is awesome and there are some people there that are there for stargate and there are some people that are there for babylon 5 and some for both which is totally awesome so make sure you guys go over there check all of that out that being said 1969 is on deck for next week so until next time folks Thank you so much. And we, yeah, Jeff.
Hold on. I'm just getting the message. Really?

[22:25] So mother says that she wants to talk to you and only you.
Listen, all, all my friends here are super cool. You can, if you could trust me, you can trust all my friends. They're super dope. Yeah. She doesn't like your friends at all.
Neither do I. I can't blame you for crying out loud.

[22:41] Music.