1969

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

1969 - Season 2, Episode 21

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Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:12] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time. And I'm Brent Dallin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time. But for the first time, I'm looking for what Stargate is trying to teach us. You know, those good sci-fi messages. Messages that hold up a mirror to society, give us hope that things can be better in the future, or just teach us how to be better human beings to one another. This week, Brent, we're watching 1969. And in this episode, I'm going to get a little more specific than I did in the prediction. In this episode, Tilk will get his first real six string. Jack will buy it at the five and dime. He'll play it till his fingers bleed. Sam will say it's the summer of 69. How long did you spend writing that? I literally made that up on the fly. You did not. You can look at the notes. The notes right here literally say, Tilk will get his first real six-string dot, dot, dot. That's all it says. Oh, that's as far as you go with it. Okay. That's how this thing works, man. Yeah. Brent, why don't you tell us about this one, 1969?

[1:22] Well, this is episode 21 of season two, penultimate episode four, season two, 1969. Original air date, February 3rd, 1998. 98 i did see though jeff that according to other sources the original air date was march 5th 19 it was 98 or 99 whatever it is for whatever reason my note says 1993 and i'm not really sure what what's it should be that for you it said that last week for you too so like well that's what happens when you you know cut and paste today's episode is written by show creator brad wright um so take that for what it's worth and uh with that jeff i'm not gonna give you anything else with that alone i'm pretty sure my prediction isn't true so it sucks just because it's brad right yeah why would he write that episode because he's awesome okay that's fair i'll keep hope alive he's the guy who has produced the show so far so that's fair you know and all its little antics anyway with that it is time for us to go watch this episode jeff i have you guys out there joining us for the very first time welcome you guys are amazing the way this works is jeff and are going to go watch 1969 right now we're going to do that together if you're hanging out with us over on youtube you're going to catch the reaction video and then we're going to do some stuff afterwards if you want the full unedited version head over to patreon.com slash link is down below.

[2:43] That's it right there oh wait let's try that again, Go to www.patreon.com slash. Bye nerds. And I like that Jeff. I like that too. That's good.

[2:57] And you guys can catch full unedited video of Jeff and I watching this episode. If you're one of our audio podcast listeners, you are amazing. And we're so glad you're here. You're about to gate into the future where you will hear my for the first time reactions to this episode. And any of the sci-fi messages that Brent might have found. Brent, let's kick it off. 1969.

[3:32] I'm right now remembering that Michael Shanks has a brand new newborn at home in this moment. And he kind of just has that tired look. He does. It takes us within 70,000 miles of the sun. I have to update the computer's drift calculation to include gravitational space-time warping. Oh, did you hear what she said? Let's go. Yes, sir. I got the math part, but I didn't hear why the math part. Yeah, I was over-talking. That's my fault. Jeff, I'm going to do the thing where I'm going to rewind it and let you listen to that because it's kind of integral to the show. This time of year, the direct line between P2X555 and the Earth takes us within 70,000 miles of the sun. I have to update the computer's drift calculation to include gravitational space-time warping. Like, the wormhole goes within that radius of the zone. How's the hand? It's a little sore, but it'll be all right. Thank you. Jeff, ten points if you remember where she got that underhand from. Keep it in your best pocket until you get on the other side. It's fairly self-explanatory. It was last week, wasn't it? About two weeks ago. One false step, the knife. Oh, that's right. I'm going to grab the knife from the dude. Time to ship out. Being that it was that episode, you can understand why I don't remember. General Hammond wrote a love letter. Everything's fine. Chevron 3, encoded. Time to ship out. It'll be better depending on how you answer the question. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[4:49] Did you see that? Like in a holodeck? Did you see this? Captain Carter, where are we? I don't know, sir. For a minute there, we were back in the gate room. Oh, they went back in time. This looks suspiciously like the butt end of a Titan missile. Okay. Test burn in T-minus 20 seconds. Probably going to want to move. What is a test burn? Just what it sounds like. Any ideas here? Till, move. Watch till, watch till, watch till. Six, five, four, three. Come on, Till. One, two, three.

[5:35] I used my shotgun remote control. He just satted the thing. Took his sweet bippy time. I will wait until the one. I did not. How did that work? I did not. I did not. Hands on your head. Get on your knees. So you said you think they're back in time. Yep. They went back because the SGC building totally makes sense. It used to be a missile silo. Yeah. So that room, you know, so I think they went back to a time when it was still a missile silo so when i first told you that it was a missile silo back in children of the gods we got so many comments and so many notes from people no just saying it's not a missile silo it's not a missile silo this is not a missile silo there's no missile silo underneath norad pardon me jeff yeah, suck it if you're looking for proof that there's a missile silo there it sits i'm fairly certain that we've traveled back in time roughly about 30 years a little bump in the calculations captain a little bit i'm sorry sir i don't know what to say it's astronomical calculations back home and we'll say it never happened we're the first people in human history to go back in time you know what for all we know if we could figure out how to do this again just think of what we could do no that's exactly what we can't do why not because of the grandfather paradox.

[6:56] If you went back 50 years and murdered your own grandfather, your own father would never have been born. But then you wouldn't have been born and then you wouldn't have gone back and murdered your grandfather. We could change our world in ways that we can't possibly imagine. That's not a paradox. You don't move outside time. But we might even cease to exist along with everything and everyone we know. Haven't we altered history already just by being here? Maybe you were supposed to be here. We have to concentrate on damage control. That's your paradox. At the very least, destroy our advanced weapons and technology. It is at this point that I'd like to welcome all of our new viewers here to Stargate SG-1. And it's time for Brent's lesson on time travel. If time travel is possible and it might be, that's fine. Paradoxes will not exist because you cannot change time. And I don't mean you can't like you don't have permission to. I mean, you can't meaning you physically can't do it. If it happens in time, it always happened in time. Therefore, if you go back in time, then you are always back in time and you are always a part of history.

[7:54] Time is closed when it comes to that sort of stuff which is actually why i think time travel is possible yeah um so it just anyway if you go back in time and you kill your grandfather guess what wasn't actually your grandfather or you were immaculately conceived it's because possible i'm not i'm not denying it i'm just saying it's it's yeah anyway sorry with that As a sci-fi fan, we encounter this particular scenario all the time, and I just have to grin and bear it. When we get to the end of this, I wanted to have a discussion on that and to think about it. Does time even exist? Interesting thought. Make a note. Let's talk about it at the end of the episode. That's going to be a little tough. We also cannot tell anyone anything about who we are or where we're from. The Soviet spioni. That was the wrong answer.

[8:48] I just told him we were come with me, sure you bet you daniel he was like i'm such an idiot swing and a miss that dude does not smoke cigarettes in real life nothing about what he's doing right now it looks like he smokes cigarettes in real life captain james t kirk of the starship enterprise, the buzzer the buzzer american accent is very impressive mr kirk for whatever it's worth this is 1969 uh-huh yeah uh star trek is in season three in 1969 i'm not saying that star trek was like the worldwide phenomenon then that it was today in fact if it was it probably would have gotten seasons four and five and stuff still a big deal but it was still enough that somebody on that base has heard of captain kirk before my name's not kirk it's skywalker luke skywalker, now that didn't come out to the late 70s exactly yeah we're good jeff you missed it i'm sorry this is just a classic guy walker this is classic rda watch him watch what he does right here at the very end before the scene cuts he puts out a cigarette there's smoke.

[10:01] Love it it's gonna get a little bit of that that is one of those things the editor saw and then i've got to keep that in yeah i've got it i've got to trim two seconds somewhere else so i can keep that in before i can even think of doing what's asked of me in the note i need to know who you are and who gave it to you oh my god look at that i just kept wondering if you saw that name tag like before samantha carter and you gave me the note sir sir before we left general hammond gave me a note and told me to keep it in my vest pocket general you're screwing up history come on sam dressed to me in my handwriting what's it say he does a great don davis impression right yeah yeah he gets the cadence and stuff just seeing his help and the way his eyes are going, yeah i'd like to know why because it's your idea albeit one you won't have for 30 years i know this is kind of hard to understand but that's roughly how far back in time we've traveled in your own hand yourself or not how great is jack in right there man.

[11:03] You know what I mean? Just like, this is where we're at, and this is what needs to happen. Here you go. That guy did a great job. He's great, Hammond. But the fact that he has that note even proves your point, because the note was always there, right? The dangerous foreign agents you now guard have. Yeah, so we can talk about this a little bit more later. This gets into one of those Dr. Bashir type things. Like they come up and they write an episode that then actually rewrites everything we've seen so far. Oh, okay, okay. Because this is when General Hammond walks in and the Stargate program is being mothballed, he has already had this experience in NORAD. When he meets Jack O'Neill, Sam Carter, Teal'c, when Teal'c comes through the Stargate for the very first time at the end of Children of the Gods, Hammond goes, I remember him. It rewrites everything we've known so far about Hammond. It hasn't changed it. It just rewrites it. And to the point of what you just so accurately pointed out, this is a part of the history. Just how it happened. Because otherwise the Hammond in the future wouldn't have known. So Sam's whole thing here, and it's the sci-fi trope. It's the sci-fi rule. It doesn't apply. It's not actually good physics. Yeah. Physically impossible. People are like, how do you actually leave some podcast about it? Brent has some letters after his name. We'll just leave it at that.

[12:26] And also, to be fair, not all physicists agree on the rules of the potential rules of time travel should it ever actually occur. Anyway. Got any cash? Uh, yeah, I might have some. That's good. I'll pay you back. Now we know how the episode's gonna end. One more thing, you have to keep everything you've seen and everything we've told you a secret and I mean for the rest of your life. General Hammond. I like the sound of that. But I do want you to know that what I'm about to do keeps you from getting court-martialed.

[13:07] Did they have interstates up in Canada back then? Yeah. They built them in World War II. In Canada. It's a way to transport weapons and troops. I guess they didn't have interstates. They called it something different. But I-5 does go up through Vancouver. All right. No, sir. Well, it doesn't explain how to get back, at least not explicitly. But wait a second. It just means that on August 10th at 9.15 a.m., something is going to happen. And happen again the next day at 6.03. Things tend to happen at that time. We just have to figure out what that something is. That's a pretty far leap in logic. Like, that just means that something's going to happen at that exact time, and then the same thing is going to happen the next day. That doesn't mean that. Nope. It said help them. So it could be the Vems on the 10th and the Vems on the 11th, and Vems can be different. It could be two completely different things that happen. It could be two whatever. Like, there's no way to know what those times actually mean. Exactly. Anyway, but this is where we go. I do also want to point out, that's a pretty nifty cut Jack's got on his idea from getting hit with the stock of the gun. That would hurt so bad. Oh, God. I mean, that feels like if that hit him right there as hard as he hit him, he's breaking an orbital bone. Oh, yeah. You know. Not even sparkling in my daddy's eye Or any other part of his body.

[14:36] Did you catch who they're talking about right now? Yeah Catherine from back in the Permanent Antalus in the movies Oh this will be good A bunch of Herberts are picking up Hop in.

[14:59] What a time man what a time so upstate new york some big concert they're going to what's dark come on right up front and not the one with fires and sexual assault the one that was actually pretty great i am not at liberty to reveal my identity.

[15:17] Anything he says is cool i've got a neighbor that's converted a muscle list really yeah My wife wants to do that and live in it. Oh, yeah. That's whatever. Yeah. Hello. Hi. Okay, I was going to say, Sam looks great in 60s girl. Like, that costume department, man, wardrobe. I got it. They nailed her look in this one. You know, I'm just saying, they didn't get that much money off of Lieutenant Hammond. No. Randomly out of his pocket. Well, I wonder if the initial bus driver had some means of selling things on the way. I like that travel montage, man. That was great. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. The music was good, too. All happy. Better than anything we heard in Babylon 5. Better than anything we heard in One False Step. I mean, traveling between the Earth and where? What's that about? That's cool, man. At this point, Michael is going to go on to become like... Some, like, NASA. Yeah. From a galaxy far, far away. It's the second Star Wars. But now it's time to go home, and we need your help. Should have been a phone home. Uh-huh. We need to be in a place called New York by tomorrow.

[16:32] All right, we got one shot. The door happens to be unlocked. Even in 1969. You can trust people back then. It's not astronomy. One of your hobbies on here.

[16:44] We better have a pretty wicked solar lens on that telescope. Which I'm sure. Why wouldn't? Well, yeah. In my head, I was like, they didn't invent solar lenses in 1969. They absolutely have.

[17:01] They might bump into Tom Harris, though. But, yeah, right? Never told me i'm rick grouper had a son ernest littlefeld when the war ended my father and i were told never to speak of it again i really love love that the show is referencing itself with ernest like these are things that we have experienced and i promise you when they wrote torment of tantalus in season one this was not they weren't like we're going to reference it here to convince katherine whatever like they're just pulling it back out of out of their character bible and using it and i know lots of shows do that but still it's cool though it's really cool yeah if i'm sitting there and i'm teal i'm like dude i want to look there it is another teal precisely 603 p.m tomorrow we're going to go back to the future we're going home and where we're going we won't need roads, All right, so this is a pretty cool effect, but you saw the episode not too long ago where they found the Stargate, like, in a hangar. Laying down, yeah. Yeah. Like, awesome effects. Why is this one burning?

[18:17] Cool shot, though, isn't it? Yeah, that's a great shot. I'm just saying from a storage standpoint, from whatever, why does it have the hinged doors on each side? And the pieces fall down to a nice ramp that leads right in. Well, General Hammond must have chosen players on the opposite side of the sun this time. So the sun's rotational differential will send us forward instead of back. Yeah, General Hammond must have chosen that. I mean, the point is we are 15 minutes away from the only chance we are going to get at this, and we still haven't found a power source to free... How much power? Uh-oh. We have got to go.

[18:53] Oh, oh, one's close. I think that in the original plan of episodes, this was the next to last episode. Overall? Oh, yeah, right, because this was the end of the... Okay, I was... Now, they had... Season 4 approved before Season 1 was over, but still... In the vest pocket of one i found a note with my name on it needless to say i followed its instructions you couldn't have known when to give it to me no not until i saw the cut on your hand remember when i took the cuffs off there you go yeah then you've been waiting for this to happen ever since we met i almost didn't let you go but if you didn't you would have changed your own history no you wouldn't it's going to be a long debriefing people oh by the way colonel With interest, you owe me $539.50. Honestly, over 30 years, that seems like a... 0.1%. Yeah. Or did he take $2 from him? Right. Like, what is the interest rate there? Right. And is it just for inflation or anything? Like, what's... Are you typing, Jeff? Are you good? I'm good. Okay. Awesome. Hey, welcome to the behind the scenes there, Patreon. Right. Make sure everything's smooth and all that stuff. Right. Right.

[20:06] All right, well, welcome back to all of our audio listeners. You have just gated into the future. Jeff and I have now watched 1969. We just finished watching it like 30 seconds ago. Jeff, take us through it. What was your experience visiting? Summer of 69. It was the summer of 69. They were heading to Woodstock and everything. Yeah, dude. Dodging the draft and... The stuff you do in the 60s. Breaking into observatories. Stuff you do in the 60s. Who didn't do that stuff, really? Not me. I wasn't alive yet. I want to start with... I have a big gripe in this episode, and I want to start with that. Shut up. I do. No. And it's not even just... This episode is flawless. There is nothing wrong with it. Shut your mouth right now. Maybe it's not this episode that my gripe is with. No, go ahead. A thing that happened in this episode and has happened in other episodes related to Sam. She's kind of a hypocrite. So like in this episode, she is banging a drum on a soapbox, riding a horse, a really high horse. Well, you can't talk about this and you can't do this. And there's rules to time travel. And I know everything about time travel. And you can't and you can't. And hey, don't say that.

[21:23] They end up in the future with Cassandra, which was super cool.

[21:26] And the first thing out of her mouth. We have so much to ask you and learn about. what were you doing this whole episode but telling your team you can't do that thing yeah and she's done similar stuff in so many other episodes yeah it's very frustrating you know what it is it's it is the difference and i'm glad that this show actually explores it they explored it both in season one uh very few other shows have ever really explored it there's the whenever we meet a civilization that's not as advanced as us we know we cannot give you our technology because you could use it in the wrong way you're not ready for it yet you can't handle it yet but yet as soon as we meet a civilization that has higher technology than we do we get all pissy about the fact that they can't share their technology even though it would save our lives or change something for us now or or whatever like i can think i have to give like four voyager episodes that are that exactly where janeway's like you know what go across we're stealing it yeah yeah yeah but that's not a gripe on this episode but this episode is pretty darn close to perfect this was isn't it fun it's a fun episode after after one small step or one false step or whatever it is yeah uh yeah and then even last week with show and tell like show and tell is an episode i like i watch it every time i go through the run through but 1969 is an episode i just look forward to every time i'm like 1969 is a comfort episode to me i'll throw it i think i watched it last week just because like i was trying to go to bed or something just i just watch it it's just a fun episode, man.

[22:55] It's an episode that builds on other episodes, not, and not just story-wise, but like the stuff that happens in it is, is hilarious and witty because we know these characters now, you know, like we understand who they are, their relationships, their backgrounds.

[23:09] Like there was story stuff that was cool where like they called back to torment of tantalus a couple of times and a few other episodes just little pieces that was really awesome but little things like there was this one of my favorite exchanges was when they first end up in in 69 and they're in the the missile silo in cheyenne mountain and uh you guys are a bunch of soviet spies right he says in russian and daniel's like and yet jack's like dude he's like what i just told him because he oh oh shoot now if we didn't know you know what i loved about that scene i'm sorry you know what i loved about that scene i've never noticed it before this watch through with daniel in the background like while everybody he's turned around like oh my god i'm such an idiot right like it's the same thing i've never noticed jack blowing the smoke before at the end of his little interview it's and we've noted a few times where richard dean anderson does those little things that can't be in the script like they have to be acting choices and you're kind of seeing that rub off on on some of the other actors now which is great it's so much fun i'm sorry i interrupted your train of thought totally i totally lost it i got it back but if we didn't know daniel and jack the way we do that would have been a kind of obnoxious scene you know just like oh okay we're just blah blah blah but because we know them it was hilarious so i think Like, you mentioned in the end of this, you know, when they first signed for Stargate SG-1, it was two seasons that they signed for.

[24:36] And so, like, the original plan, overall plan, whatever, you know, they didn't have a, you know, beat-by-beat thing, but they had an idea this was going to be the second-to-last episode of the series.

[24:46] And what I think is cool about that is, like, this didn't really move anything forward. You know, it really introduced the idea, the concept of using the gate for time travel. Like, that's a thing. but you could end a series with oh and also this you know but yeah this just played on all the cool stuff you know that that we've we've watched so far.

[25:08] Yeah now to be fair i don't know that you know they were they were originally given 44 episodes two seasons that's what they got greenlit for i don't know that they had a plan for all 44 episodes like i can't sit back and say that this was the plan from from the beginning it might have been might have been i don't know uh but when cassie says there at the end she goes and your adventure is just beginning that feels like such an end of a series thing to say like hey you've been through all this and this is just beginning that's so much more for you first start of the right and straight until morning sure great captain kirk thanks yeah that's supposed to be the end here we still go with all that speaking of captain kirk right what an epic scene and i called it i called it you know you said that and like the little trekkie in me just starts jumping up and down it was so awesome so they they're in the thing i forgot it's 1969 they got to come up with cover story and i'm like yeah it's 69 people know star trek star trek was really popular.

[26:10] Throw up the signal and be like yeah we're we're you know from the enterprise or haha or whatever and then he did captain kirk from the starship enterprise and that when that didn't get anywhere and he wanted to like and the interviewer didn't even seem to listen to your kirk yeah kirk which is like we said it there and it's like here there's this there's this feeling nowadays that Star Trek got canceled after three seasons because it didn't get viewers and people didn't like it. The reality is it cost a fortune to make that TV show and not even Desilu Studios could keep that.

[26:44] Level of quality going and you see that in the season three of tos like the quality drops off pretty hard because it just costs a lot of money to make that stuff it had incredible viewership people knew who captain kirk was so that was a little lame that he didn't know but but then he's like oh shoot maybe he knows who he is so i'm luke skywalker it's dumb but it's just a lot of fun but it's and it's so in character for o'neill though yeah you know totally on brand yeah tilk there's some missed opportunities with tilk in this one we talked about he gets all hippied up and perfect opportunity for him to drop an indeed showed up he didn't do that so that's we'll give him missed opportunity one there but the big missed opportunity is he shouldn't have said indeed should have said groovy yeah but then daniel got that line yeah it was just like i mean and he threw it away like i'm sorry it worked but daniel threw it away it should have yeah you put that in tilk's mouth and that's that's the high point of the episode right there That would have been so good. He had this big kind of fro-wig thing going on. I mean, in a lot of ways, this episode was dumb. They used this stock 60s music for the montages, and they have the Indiana Jones map with the red line going. It's kind of dumb, but they did it in such a way that it's awesome and a blast.

[28:02] I was about to punch you, just so you know. That's fair. That's fair. I think for this one, this was really just a celebration of Stargate. And, and caps off like the first, I don't know, chapter or whatever, you know, first two seasons, whatever it is. Yeah. This is a great kind of cap for that. And then I imagine like next, we're probably going to have like a, probably another two parter to close out the, you know, to close out and open up the seasons and we'll be back in business, you know, but this is just kind of a fun thing. My outstanding question that I'm not, I don't want you to answer, but we'll see. but what I have in my head is, is time travel now going to be a thing that crops up from time to time? Because they seem to have it dialed in pretty well at this point. Even if they don't really know the rules of time travel. So, great segue. We talked a little bit about the rules and mechanics of time travel during the episode, but I want to dive in to that a little bit. So, for our audio listeners who missed that conversation, they can catch it on YouTube or on Patreon. If they want to, that's patreon.com slash Bye, nerds! We've got to remember to actually update this. I love that.

[29:11] It's so cool. That's my little girl. That's my little girl. She's not so little anymore, but that's when she was. It's pretty cool. But we talked a lot about the rules. So Sam, when she was riding on her high horse that was on a soapbox around what they could and couldn't do, there was really all the sci-fi tropes about the grandfather paradox, that if you do this, then there wasn't that. And we saw some just those, well, you couldn't do this. Don't tell him that because you'll mess this up. You shared a lot. And so I'm going to, I'm going to edify you and bring you up a little bit. Brent understand. Brent's just a podcaster, right? Just homeschools his kids and talks about, you know, football and sci-fi all the time. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Also, if you had his name out and whatever, there are a series of letters after his name that you have to like pay a lot of money and spend a lot of time in a classroom to get my friend, my co-host Brent Allen is a highly educated individual who has the time of this recording is actually working on another degree for fun.

[30:16] Literally for a good time so so don't take this as just like brent be like i watch a lot of sci-fi and this is how it works no this is how it works brent break down time travel for us like okay look here's the deal if time travel is possible and i'm not saying that it is impossible i'm not saying it is possible my personal suspicion is time travel is possible all right um one uh and this is well i don't even go with that uh time is a closed loop or not close it's closed sphere i would say okay but time um regardless assume with me time travel is possible okay you know what is impossible are paradoxes right uh.

[30:56] This whole idea of being able to go back in time uh kill your grandfather and then you're never born and you create a paradox this is all stuff that's made up for drama and novels and fiction and that's not actually the way it would work if you go back in time and you kill your grandfather you always went back in time and killed your grandfather therefore that guy wasn't actually your grandfather so you need to go have a conversation with your grandma you know what i mean what really happened here and and this this episode goes back and proves it every every bit of time travel in this episode was cyclical spherical or whatever it Hammond always met these guys way back in 1969 that didn't change Cassie always sent them back to their past that never changed they always had these interactions those things never changed the what happened is what happened and it affected us here today because it's it's really just the it's just a loop if I go back and kill my grandfather then I'm never born which means I don't go back to kill my grandfather, which means my grandfather is there, which means I am then born. And so it's not a paradox. Those two things can't happen. It's if I go back in time, I always went back in time.

[32:14] I was always there and it's what I love so much and appreciate so much about the, uh, prisoner of Azkaban book, because in that book, that's exactly how time travel is written and, and what they use until later on in the series when they mess that whole thing completely up and then they undo it. And I get very, very sad, but, uh, yeah, time travel is, uh.

[32:43] I do believe it's possible, but you're also you're never going to change the past it is impossible to change the past you cannot change the past not because of permission but because you can't actually change the past because we're a sci-fi thing i'm going to use the word paradox just because that's a word they use for this stuff i'm going to call that the wild stallions paradox yeah yeah right so hey we got to make sure that the that i record the the things so my dad goes over here and the and the trash can that comes down those things always happened they always did it yeah so crates left ancient greece to come forward and then went back like that was what always always happened yep abraham lincoln genghis khan they always joan of arc yeah yeah rufus all of how june of arc was able to go back and like really get her army in shape because she you know learned the aerobics and stuff it's just i mean well when you're a maniac on the floor then how can you not take over europe exactly exactly now what i want to push back on that whole theory though just a little bit so that's science that you've brought forward theoretical science theories based in uh in a container of scientific uh practice yeah okay yeah yeah yeah and and and to your point that you made even during the episode like that's uh an approach from like a physics and and you know astrophysical almost.

[34:06] Perspective there are physicists who do not agree with that and physicists who do agree with that yeah and nobody actually knows because nobody's done it so i think stephen hawking knows because he actually held a party for time travelers and no one showed up that actually happened i mean that's all the proof you need maybe just stephen hawking's an awful host and forgot to send out invitations and whatnot i sent him out i'm sure i did but but where i want to bring in a theory that's that's not scientific at all more spiritual and i want to i'm going to bring deepak chopra into this conversation, Deepak says the past is gone. The future is not here. He also says the past is a memory and the future a dream. The only thing that exists is now. And our perception as human beings, I'm out of sight of his quotes now, but our perception as human beings, by the time we perceive now, it's the past. So everything that we're perceiving and doing right now doesn't actually exist. So if that's the case, does time exist at all? Or is everything that's happened just a memory that exists in our minds and didn't actually happen in any way? It's a neat concept. It's an interesting concept. Like several things in physics, truthfully, it actually gets to be more philosophical than actually physics.

[35:33] And it really just depends on how you define your words at this point. So you know without getting into the two too deep nitty-gritty sure yeah if that's how you want to define those words what is time the question is then what is time yeah time we talk about things existing in time and space right like that's the thing but space exists we we can sense it we can feel it we can measure it we can all those things time is a man-made construct i mean there was yesterday there will be tomorrow it's a man-made construct in the same way that space is a man-made construct because you you think about space uh we we you can only think about space with it being finite right yeah you you you cannot comprehend space you only understand space in terms of being finite um even when we try to put models of the universe out there there's we still put boundaries and edges on the edge of the universe we talk about how the universe is still constantly expanding the universe cannot expand unless there's a boundary yeah you know um so it it and in that same way the way deepak chopra is defining time is is as a particular experience in a particular moment at a moment in time.

[36:43] Uh because if you don't have time you don't have moments i'm throwing that out there but also uh we may want to i don't know how we want to edit this for the show because wow this is getting way off in the weeds but when when we discuss time we discuss time in the context of the entire experience of everyone and everything of everything everywhere all at once like so when when we discuss time we discuss it in that context not does it because what you're saying there is does the individual second actually matter because this poofs and that poofs you know uh yeah but we also talk time.

[37:17] Is okay here's the thing um because i believe time is is spherical i mentioned that phrase spherical which um the thing about a sphere is you have a center point of a sphere and we can discuss what we think the center point of the sphere is but from the center point of the sphere all points are equidistant okay which means past present future all are happening at exactly the same time from the center of the universe i like that which is why if you can get into the center of that sphere you can go to any other point in time equidistant and it all is happening at the exact same time and that lines up with deepak chopra's thing of the only thing that exists is now because now in the center of the sphere encompasses the past the present and the future, and you're equidistant from the from the and the best way that i can always think about it is is a novel or let's even just say the the author of a novel for that author the of the story.

[38:19] The past the present and the future all exist a coexist at the exact same time for the author, they're just laying it out in a way that happens to have an order to it and they can dive into the fast they can dive into the middle to dive in at whatever point they choose to dive into it is equal distant for them so anyway metaphors all break down at some point So I don't want to go too far off into that, but I don't know that you and I have ever gotten this deep into this conversation before, which might be why we're going on about it. But I'm going to go a layer deeper just real quick just to introduce. But because when you were talking about welcome, Patreon to Brent and Jeff just hanging out. This is how Brent and Jeff go just hanging out. Go ahead, Jeff. We are nerds. So that is a thing we do. But I'm trying my best not to pontificate because there is no real definitive answer out there that is currently testable with any methods that we have. So it's just really a matter of lots of equations on boards, thinking about it and trying to figure out how it works and what makes the most sense. And like I said, it ends up hitting philosophy. Well, it's untestable hypotheses is honest, which makes it actually not really a hypothesis, but whatever.

[39:27] I'm reminded. So you're talking about how we have to define space with limits, right? It has to be finite in those pieces. And that's a thing that we struggle with in with time as well. We, uh, we like the concept of a infinite God or infinite being is not understandable by us. We need limits, which makes me think of Spinoza, who was a philosopher in the 17th century, who, by the way, I won't deep dive, but incredible views on religion and God that are actually reflected in Babylon five in a really good way. But he talks about how there's, there are things that have substance and then there are the things that are the result of that substance.

[40:09] And substance is a thing that you can describe without referencing anything else. So like if you couldn't reference anything, how would you describe what an iPhone is? You can't. I use that to talk to other people. what is talking what are other people i use that to transmit data what is data how do you train you know so you ask those questions so what is space what is time can you describe those things without referencing other things i'm not going to go into the exercise of doing i'm just kind of planning this is our segue out of here at a thought exercise but if you can describe those without referencing anything else they're substance and they truly exist on their own but if you have to reference something else space is the uh the amount of whatever between this point and this oh between these points you have that stuff it's finite there's boundaries you have to reference and what are here here's here's the weird thing i you know i said a minute in order to conceive space you have to conceive it with boundaries that just a space the very idea of the edge of space an expanding space means that it's contained you also automatically think of what is outside the container yeah like what's it expanding in you yeah you you think of that.

[41:23] Is it expanding in the sphere that is time? Like we could. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a wild thing all the way around. I will tell you this. You, you mentioned God and spiritual stuff and things like that. And again, this is a, um, suspicion. Okay. This is, this is a, I am, if I can ever get the, the funding and the ability to go in and actually do testing, uh, and, and really dig this out. It almost sounds like in your house i think it's somebody outside to take care of something jeff maybe i don't need real quick i'm just gonna check go ahead i was just the neighbors it's okay so i just it was sad and weird in my headphones so i'm sorry i totally interrupted you with thinking i was about to get so so here's the deal um god that hey this is uh stuff we would discuss in club 65 normally right now absolutely just doing it right in the middle of the show all right here here we go um and if you don't know what club 65 is then sorry you should find out what club 65 is and i can't tell you i'm not allowed uh because that's the first rule of club six there are rules yeah yes not many but there that is one of them uh here's the um you know marvel the mcu right now is exploring this idea of the multiverse.

[42:39] Right uh physics tells us the multiverse is possible multiverse probably exists out there You know, um, I have a suspicion. I have a curiosity, a thing. What if what the multiverse actually is, um.

[42:54] Are the what we would call the mystical spiritual realm today like so god and angels and demons and these things are actually beings that exist in another universe like i here's what i don't think the multiverse is i don't think the multiverse is every choice you make can have it you know an infinite amount of choices and and then each one of those and then it spider webs out and each It's not, it's not Schrodinger's, you know, multiverse. No, no, it's no. I mean, there's not a million universes out there hanging on whether or not I chose to wear socks today or not. You know, it's, it's not that, but I do, I do think it is possible that there are, that there.

[43:37] That the multiverse and we do see places where the various verses out there in the multiverse can cross over and interact. With each other and when we think about what dark matter is and where dark matter come people don't know what dark like that's a big field of study right now is dark matter and how do we you know there there are forces of gravity out there in the universe right now that we can't account for yeah no reason zero accounting for it why not multiverse stuff that actually impacts our own universe right now and we impact theirs and what does that look like and i you know uh alien potentially even like alien encounters and stuff really are more multiversal and crotters crossover things yeah yeah so anyway again is there any real substance to that no no it's neat to think about but it's neat to think about yeah it's possible physics says it's possible exactly and that makes it.

[44:35] Worth exploring and thinking about we've just created for ourselves a tremendous editing um nightmare for for both sides with that brent will you share any sci-fi messages no here's the editing to that snip snip i just cut it out i'll give the audio i'll just plop it at the end right like yeah if you want to stick around afterwards you can hear our little deep dive into nothing well here we go uh okay so jeff um particularly for our audio folks um you and i have just had an incredibly lengthy discussion about stuff that really has nothing to do with stargate so uh we are cutting that piece out and if folks want to stick around for what is at least a 20 minute discussion jeff i think so yeah on the nature of time and the universe and space and that sort of stuff uh You're welcome to stick around towards the end. Fair warning. It all comes with the asterisk of, yeah, we don't know. We don't know anything.

[45:36] Musing, musings of a couple of knuckleheads on a podcast. And to be clear, sober knuckleheads. I don't want to be like, what were they doing? No, this is what we're doing. Yes, but it is family-friendly. Listen, though. It is. It is family-friendly. So if you guys want to check that out at the end of the episode. But, Jeff, we do need to get back into talking about Stargate. We do. Let me bring us in. go i thought that's what i just did go ahead well yeah you did didn't you because we're going to explain that i'm more editing nightmare for us right here so sorry keep going jeff you just talked to us about your experiences for the first time watching this episode 1969 uh i have some experiences okay i get to watch this episode for the first time looking for messages i'm not gonna lie.

[46:18] I completely did not do my job through this episode. I was having so much fun with this episode. I didn't even think to look like, I don't know. It's possible much like I don't know what the nature of the universe is much like I don't know what the limits of space time are much like I don't know what the shape of time is, or if time is even a reality. I don't know if there are really messages that exist within this episode because I was having so much fun watching this episode, just thinking through right now, trying to figure out if he can pull something out of the air i got a little i have a little something and it's around okay it's around the hippies that picked up our sg michael and michael bunny i forget her name i don't know there's a there's a there's this it didn't happen but there's a version of that whole storyline that would have made this a message so what what happened was tilk literally just stood out in the middle of the street put his arms out and stopped this painted up bus with two people heading to Woodstock and immediately they were like come on in let's go they were super welcoming and like there was no drama there was no nothing they went shopping they did you know had a whole fun 60s montage they were supportive all the way even when they found out they were what they believed were aliens they were still like we have to help these people we have to do that that's pretty awesome that's cool it didn't pay off and in fact.

[47:40] It blew up in michael's face because we find out later michael was drafted and they want to go back to the planet with them so he doesn't have to go kill people he's like i don't want to kill people yeah and they're like oh too bad sorry you know you can't come with us and i mentioned during the watch that it would be cool if when the episodes ends he's good and we're 30 years in the future and like daniel or jack or sam or somebody's like hey thanks we're hooking you up with this whatever i think there would have been a message if we had the bow at the end of it without that it's like hey it's cool to be cool to people also it can cost you i guess which is a zero chevron message but it's let me let me let me ask you this who um who writes this episode where we do all that they get home they look michael up and he died in vietnam yeah there's that too that's a jms that's a total jms approach to this one right and also totally appropriate yeah yeah but talk about bringing it down i mean you have otherwise a great episode that just turns into a downer and like you can't do that man no you can't do that that's a that's a very babylon 5 thing to do so.

[48:45] Yeah. I mean, you gave me all that time to think, but I'm just not, I'm not catching the, Hey, listen, I'm actually gonna put this back out there on the viewers. Did you catch a message? I didn't get one. I just gonna, I've got to, that being said, I have to leave this at zero chevrons.

[48:59] Please bear in mind chevrons have absolutely nothing to do with how much you like an episode. I just said the whole reason why I didn't get it is because I was enjoying the episode so much.

[49:08] All right. uh so i don't have that but jeff do you well there's no do you you have to you get to rank this episode and our 100 completely accurate definitive season two ranking of stargate sg one i'm gonna go from the top down i'm gonna say our top 10 i'm gonna start from 10 and go all the way to one because i don't know that this is gonna crack jeff's top five but i do believe it'll probably be in his top 10 and so we'll see where it lays number 10 is currently at holiday that's the michello episode number nine was touchstone number eight was in the line of duty that's where we met joel and our serpents song that's where we got old apophis tokra parts one and two spirits with tanane thor's chariot secrets serpents grasp and serpents lair that was the uh season one season two cliffhanger and then the number one episode of the entire season is the fifth race jeff you can put this anywhere from two into two to ten and i'm not going to be mad at you what you got this isn't where i'm putting it i'll tell you where my initial thought was looking at it as i was going to make this the new number five um pushing spirits out of the top um the top five and i feel pretty good about that ranking until i look down at the next couple and it's like god those are some great episodes.

[50:30] So ultimately this is going to do a thing that I'm kind of uncomfortable with, but this is going to flush in the line of duty down to number nine, as this is going to be our new number eight episode. You're fired. That was a good one. That is fired. You're fired listen i love spirits spirits is a great episode there is no way you can tell me spirits is one two three three spots higher four spots higher than 1969 you're you cannot tell me that you know a better way of saying that is there's no way that spirits is one higher than the tokra parts one and two or two of serpent song there's not there's no way that serpent song is one better than 1969 or toker is two better than 1969 no way what no way although i did say anywhere between two and ten we'd be fine with so whatever i think for me as a holiday out of the top 10 to keep spirits and tokra yeah and serpents i mean my god you hurt here listen that just speaks to the quality of the season because i tell you what spirits spirits was a flargan good episode it is low-key a great episode i hope you catch as much flack for spirits.

[51:45] As you caught for tko yeah please i hope you've caught that much because i will i will still defend spirits it was that was a great episode i think for me with 1969 what it kind of comes down to what a fun awesome episode it was a celebration was all those great things but i'm a first-time viewer who knows there are like seven eight more seasons after this so i'm interested in that stuff that's moving the story forward in ways you know so yeah listen your your ranking is your ranking that's a thousand percent fair i do feel the need though as we're in the middle of of round as we're recording this jeff we're rounding the corner on babylon five okay um there is no overarching story moving forward in stargate it is an episodic show that is fully self-realized and and grows the show grows as the characters grow or characters grow as a show whatever yeah uh there's there's no plan there's no story so to speak going forward but it well i think there's a universe though there's a universe right so learning about the tokra learning about the you know the the technology that's out there and just the world building that happens yep that is true i just want to make sure that you're clear there is no overarching plan of a story going through but there is there is definitely progress you get to the end of this you could write the stargate story yeah but it's all retrospective.

[53:14] And i even think too like we're doing a lot of universe and world building i love it it's amazing that wasn't planned right they're like hey here's this idea oh let's do this and then let's do this and then tie it together somehow so i get like this is just kind of what if what if uh they go back to 1969 who's back they could go meet katherine and look and they can they can reference all this they can reference the the meeting him they can reference uh you know her dad finding the dig and ernest littlefield we can reference all that just to sort of prove because it makes sense yeah because you know what would happen if they if they went to meet katherine and they didn't reference ernest littlefield you and i would be sitting right here talking about why didn't they reference ernest littlefield exactly that was the whole point of that awesome episode yep yep yeah so jeff puts it in at number two low is the oh joe uh jeff we didn't get any for crying out louds and deeds or daniel deaths in this episode did we all right well we will not update those and with that that officially is going to put a button here on uh 1969.

[54:16] Care to sing it one more time jeff no i really don't i don't think anyone wants me to either i don't either all right well guys uh that's it hey next week jeff you referenced this earlier and i will confirm we are watching the season two finale it is a two-parter a cliffhanger into season three we will be doing those together as one episode so buckle in for next week okay uh the two episodes are called out of mind and into the fire so out of mind into the fire it's not a part one part two per name but it it's it's one story so it's a to be continued and we pick up right where we left off uh so jeff what do you think out of mind and into the fire into the fire is a super loaded uh title especially for where we are in our babylon five record it is that was a great episode oh my gosh it's so good number one episode of Babylon 5 for me so far out of mind.

[55:12] And into the fire. Yeah. I'm not going to break it down episode by episode. The overall piece is going to, we're going to tie back to the Apophis stuff and the Tok'ra and all that. And so there's going to be a, this is going to be a conflict between the Gould and the Tok'ra. And I think I've predicted this before, but basically this will start, you know, ramp up and then the, the season three opener will be basically a, the wrap up of a conflict between those that'll set things on a new trajectory.

[55:38] So your prediction then is that the, the season two finale will set up the season three beginning in season three will wrap up. We'll set up in season two. Yes. Okay. Got it. You're a good guesser, Jeff. Oh yeah, sure. You're a good guesser. Well, Jeff, uh, that is going to do it for us then today on Stargate SG one for the first time, still not a star Trek podcast, despite us getting a, uh, James T Kirk USS enterprise drop in the middle of this episode. It's great thank you guys so much out there for joining us uh we really appreciate it and uh hey like we said earlier if you want to stick around for an entirely stupid theoretical could be maybe possible conversation you can do that after the show today don't forget wherever you subscribe to us leave us a rating a review please share this podcast with somebody that you know who loves stargate or needs to get into the gate for the very first time incredible series lots of fun tilk should have said groovy until next time folks we will see you then.

[56:44] So close yes sir what's up jeff the other day that um the whole spy thing right, yeah i mean you're you're not a stupid spy right yeah oh for crying out loud.

[57:04] Music.