1969

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

1969 - Season 2, Episode 21

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Transcript

SG1_221 1969

[0:00] Music.

[0:15] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time. Still not a Star Trek podcast.
My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time.
And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time.
But for the first time, I'm looking for what Stargate is trying to teach us.
You know, those good sci-fi messages.
Messages that hold up a mirror to society, give us hope that things can be better in the future, or just teach us how to be better human beings to one another.
Other this week Brent we're watching 1969 and in this episode I'm going to get a little more specific than I did in the prediction in this episode Tilk will get his first real six string, Jack will buy it at the five and dime he'll play it till his fingers bleed Sam will say it's the summer of 69 how long did you spend writing that I actually I literally made that up on the fly You did not, you can look at the notes.
I literally, all the notes right here literally say, TILK will get his first real six string dot, dot, dot.
That's all it says. Oh, that's as far as you go with it. Okay.
That's how this thing works, man. Yeah.

[1:25] Jeff, I've done show endings with you now for how many episodes have we done together?
Yeah. And I've gotten like one of them that was almost sort of okay.
I'm really bad at those. Have we done over, we've done over a hundred episodes together at this point.
Yeah. Between Babylon five, the couple of Stargate episodes.
We've done and then this one or star trek episodes i mean yeah because at this point about babylon 5 in the in this we are or like 80 90 something like that 90 about 90 episodes in yeah and then we've this is like the 40th or 38th or whatever this one so yeah we've done a lot of episodes so you know my show endings and how fast this thing works it's yes the minutes upon minutes that we have spent pre-show trying to figure out what that ending is going to look like oh well brent why don't you tell us about this one 1969 well this is episode 21 of season 2 penultimate episode 4 season 2 1969 original air date february 3rd 1998 i did see though jeff that according to other sources the original air date was march 5th 19 it was 98 or 99 whatever it is for whatever reason my note says 1993 and i'm not really sure what's what's it should be said that for you it said that last week for you too so like well that's what happens when you you know cut and paste, Today's episode is written by show creator, Brad, right? So take that for what it's worth.

[2:50] And with that, Jeff, I'm not gonna give you anything else about this episode.
With that alone. I'm pretty sure my prediction isn't true.
So it sucks just because it's Brad, right? Yeah. Why would he write that episode?
Because he's awesome. Okay. That's fair. I'll keep hope alive.
He's the guy who has produced the show so far. So that's fair, you know, and all its little antics. Anyway, with that, it is time for us to go watch this episode, Jeff.
If you guys out there are joining us for the very first time, welcome.
You guys are amazing. The way this works is Jeff and I are going to go watch 1969 right now.
We're going to do that together. If you're hanging out with us over on YouTube, you're going to catch the reaction video, and then we're going to do some stuff afterwards.
If you want the full unedited version, head over to patreon.com slash link is down below.
That's it right there. Oh, wait, let's try that again. Go to www.patreon.com slash. Bye nerds.
And I like that Jeff. I like that too. That's good.
And you guys can catch full unedited video of Jeff and I watching this episode.
If you're one of our audio podcast listeners, you are amazing.
And we're so glad you're here. You're about to gate into the future where you will hear my for the first time reactions to this episode and any of the sci-fi messages that Brent might've found. Brent, let's kick it off, 1969.
7, locked.

[4:17] Music.

[4:34] All right well welcome back to all of our audio listeners um you have just gated into the future jeff and i have now watched 1969 we just finished watching it like 30 seconds ago jeff take us through it what was your experience visiting summer of 69 it was the summer of 69 they're heading to woodstock and everything yeah dude dodging the draft and the stuff you do in the 60s break it into observatories stuff you do in the 60s who didn't do that stuff really right i want to start with uh i have a i have a big gripe in this episode and i want to start with that shut up i do no and it's not even just this episode is flawless there is nothing wrong with it shut your mouth right maybe it's not this episode that my gripe is with now go ahead what a A thing that happened in this episode and has happened in other episodes related to Sam.

[5:31] Okay. She's kind of a hypocrite. So like in this episode, she is banging a drum.
Yeah. On a soapbox, riding a horse, a really high horse.
Well, you can't talk about this and you can't do this. And there's rules to time travel. And I know everything about time travel. And you can't and you can't. And hey, don't say that.
They end up in the future with Cassandra, which was super cool.
And the first thing out of her mouth. We have so much to ask you and learn about what were you doing this whole episode, but telling your team, you can't do that thing.
And she's done similar stuff in so many other episodes.

[6:05] It's very frustrating. Well, you, you know what it is? It's it is the difference.
And I'm glad that this show actually explores it, explored it both in season one, uh, very few other shows have ever really explored it.
There's the, whenever we meet a civilization, that's not as advanced as us.
Because we know we cannot give you our technology because you could use it the wrong way.
You are not ready for it yet. You can't handle it yet.
But yet as soon as we meet a civilization that has higher technology than we do, we get all pissy.

[6:35] About the fact that they can't share their technology even though it would save our lives or change something for us now or or whatever i can think i can think of like four voyager episodes that are that exactly where janeway's like you know what go across we're stealing it yeah but that's not a gripe on this episode brent this episode is pretty darn close to perfect this was is it fun it's a fun episode after after one small step or one false step or whatever it is yeah uh yeah and then even last week with show and tell like show and tell is an episode i like Like I watch it every time I go through the run through, but 1969 is an episode.

[7:08] I just look forward to every time I'm like 1969 is a comfort episode to me.
I'll throw it. I think I watched it last week just because like I was trying to go to bed or something. Just 1969.
I just watch it. It's just a fun episode, man.
It's an episode that builds on other episodes, not and not just story wise, but like the stuff that happens in it is, is hilarious and witty because we know these characters characters now, you know, like we understand who they are, their relationships, their backgrounds, like there was story stuff that was cool where like they call back to torment of Tantalus a couple of times and a few other episodes, just little pieces that was, that was really awesome.
But little things like there was this, one of my favorite exchanges was when they first end up in, in 69 and they're in the, the missile silo in Cheyenne mountain.
And uh, you guys are a bunch of Soviet spies, right? And he says in Russian and Daniel's like, yeah, Jack's like, dude, he's like, what?
I just told him where you're at because he, oh, oh, shoot.

[8:09] You know what I loved about that scene? I'm sorry. You know what I loved about that scene? I've never noticed it before this watch through with Daniel in the background.
Like while everybody he's turned around like, oh my God, I'm such an idiot.
Like it's the same thing. I've never noticed Jack blowing the smoke before at the end of his little interview.
You it's and we've noted a few times where richard dean anderson does those little things that can't be in the script like they have to be acting choices and you're kind of seeing that rub off on on some of the other actors now which is great but if we didn't know daniel and jack the way we do that would have been a kind of obnoxious scene you know just like oh okay we're just blah blah blah but because we know them it was hilarious so i think you mentioned in the end of this you know know, when they first signed for Stargate SG one, it was two seasons that they signed for.
And so in like the original plan, overall plan, whatever, you know, they didn't have a, you know, beat by beat thing, but they had an idea.
This was going to be the second to last episode of the series.

[9:07] And what i think is cool about that is like this didn't really move anything forward you know it it really introduced the idea the concept of using the gate first for time travel like that's a thing but you could end a series with oh and also this you know but yeah this just played on all the cool stuff you know that that we've we've watched so far now to be fair i don't know that you know they were they were originally given 44 episodes two seasons that's what they got green lit for i don't know that they had a plan for all 44 episodes like i can't sit back and say that this was the plan from from the beginning it might have been might have been i don't know uh but when cassie says there at the end she goes and your adventure is just beginning that feels like such an end of a series thing to say like hey you've been through all this and this is just beginning there's so much more for you first start of the right and straight until morning sure great captain kirk thanks yeah that's supposed to be the end and here here we still go with all that speaking of captain kirk right what an epic scene and i called it i called it you know you said that and like the little trekky and me just starts jumping up and down it was so awesome so they they're in the thing if i forget it's 1969 they got to come with a cover story and i'm like yeah it's 69 people know Star Trek.
Star Trek was really popular.

[10:32] Throw up the signal and be like, yeah, we're from the Enterprise or ha ha or whatever. And then he did.

[10:38] Captain Kirk from the Starship Enterprise. When that didn't get anywhere and he wanted to like go home. And the interviewer didn't even seem to listen to Kirk.

[10:45] Which is like we said it there and it's like here. There's this feeling nowadays that Star Trek got canceled after three seasons because it didn't get viewers and people didn't like it.
The reality is it cost a fortune to make that, that TV show and not even, you know, Desilu Studios could, could keep that.

[11:04] That level of quality going and you see that in the season three of TOS like the quality drops off pretty hard because it just costs a lot of money to make that stuff it had incredible viewership people knew who Captain Kirk was so that was a little lame that he didn't know but but then he's like oh shoot maybe he knows who he is so I'm Luke Skywalker it's dumb but it's just a lot of fun but it's and it's so in character for O'Neill though totally on brand yeah tilk there's some missed missed opportunities with tilk in this one we talked about he gets all hippied up and perfect opportunity for him to drop an indeed showed up he didn't do that so that's we'll give him missed opportunity one there but the big missed opportunity is he shouldn't have said indeed should have said groovy yeah but then daniel got that line it was just like i mean and he threw it away like i'm sorry no it worked but daniel threw it away it it should have you You put that in Tilk's mouth, and that's the high point of the episode right there. That would have been so good.
He had this big kind of fro wig thing going on.
I mean, this was, in a lot of ways, this episode was dumb.
They used this stock 60s music for the montages, and they have the Indiana Jones map with the red line going.
It's kind of dumb, but they did it in such a way that it's awesome and a blast.

[12:22] I was about to punch you, just so you know. That's fair. That's fair.
There, but this was just, I, I, I think for this one, this was really just a celebration of Stargate.

[12:34] And caps off like the first, I don't know, chapter or whatever, you know, first two seasons, whatever it is, this is a great kind of cap for that.
And then I imagine like next we're probably going to have like a, probably another two parter to close out the, you know, to close out and open up the seasons and we'll be back in business, you know, but this is just kind of a fun thing. thing.
My outstanding question that I'm not, I don't want you to answer, but we'll see.
But the, what I have in my head is, is time travel now going to be a thing that cro crops up from time to time?
Cause they seem to have it dialed in pretty, pretty well at this point. So we'll see.
Even if they don't really know the rules of time travel. So great segue.
We talked a little bit about the rules and mechanics of time travel during the episode, but I want to dive in to that a little bit.
So for our audio listeners who missed that conversation, conversation they can catch it on YouTube or on Patreon uh if they want to that's patreon.com slash bye nerds I love that so cool that's my little girl that's my little girl she's not so little anymore but that's when she was pretty cool but we've just created for ourselves a tremendous.

[13:40] Editing um nightmare for for both sides with that Brent will you share any sci-fi messages no here's the editing to that snip snip i just cut it out i'll give the audio i'll just pop it at the end like yeah if you want to stick around afterwards you can hear our little deep dive into nothing well here we go uh okay so jeff um particularly for our audio folks um you and i have just had.

[14:06] An incredibly lengthy discussion about stuff that really has nothing to do with stargate so uh we are cutting that piece out and if folks want to stick around for what is at least a 20 minute discussion jeff i think so yeah on the nature of time and the universe and space and that sort of stuff uh you're welcome to stick around towards the end um fair warning it's it it all comes with the asterisk of yeah we don't know we don't know anything it musing musings of a couple of knuckleheads on a podcast like and and to be clear sober knuckleheads like i don't want to be like what were they doing no we're just we're this is what we're doing but it is family friendly listen though it is it is a family first so if you guys want to check that out at the end of the episode but jeff we do need to get back into talking about stargate jeff you just talked to us about your experiences for the first time watching this episode 1969 uh i have some experiences okay i get to watch this episode for the first time looking for messages i'm not gonna lie i completely did not do my job through this episode i was having so much fun with this episode.

[15:14] I didn't even think to look like i don't know it's possible much like i don't know what the nature of the universe is much like i don't know what the limits of space-time are much like i don't know what the shape of time is or if time is even a reality i don't know if there are really messages that exist within this episode because i was having so much fun watching this episode just thinking through right now trying to figure out if he can pull something out of the air.

[15:40] I have a little something and it's around the it's around the hippies that picked up our sg1 crew michael and bunny there's a there's a there's this it didn't happen but there's a version of that whole storyline that would have made this a message what happened was, tilk literally just stood out in the middle of the street put his arms out and stopped this painted up bus with two people heading to woodstock and immediately they were like come on in let's go they were super welcoming and like there was no drama there was no nothing they went shopping they did you know had a whole fun 60s montage they were supportive all the way even when they found out they were what they believed were aliens they were still like we have to help these people we have to do that that's pretty awesome that's cool it didn't pay off and in fact, it blew up in michael's face because we find out later michael was drafted and they want to go go back to the planet with them.
So he doesn't have to go kill. But he's like, I don't wanna kill people.
And they're like, oh, too bad. Sorry. You know, you can't come with us.
And I mentioned during the watch that it would be cool if when the episodes ends, he's good and we're 30 years in the future and like Daniel or Jack or Sam or somebody is like, Hey, thanks, we're hooking you up with this, whatever.
I think there would have been a message if we had the bow at the end of it.
Without that, it's like, Hey, it's cool to be cool to people.
Also, it can cost you, I guess, which is a zero Chevron message, but it's something. Let me ask you this. Who...

[17:08] Who writes this episode where we do all that they get home they look michael up and he died in vietnam that's a jms that's a total jms approach to this one and also totally appropriate but talk about bringing it down i mean you have otherwise a great episode that just turns into a downer like you can't do that man can't do that that's a that's a very babylon 5 thing to do so yeah i mean you gave me all that time to think but i'm just not i'm not catching the hey listen i'm actually gonna put this back out there on the viewers did you catch a message i didn't get one i'm just gonna i've got to that being said i have to leave this at zero chevrons please bear in mind chevrons have absolutely nothing to do with how much you like an episode i just said the whole reason why i didn't get it is because i was enjoying the episode so much all right uh so i don't have that but jeff do you well there's no do you you have to you get to rank this episode episode and our 100 completely accurate definitive season two ranking of stargate sg1 i'm gonna go from the top down i'm gonna say our top 10 i'm gonna start from 10 and go all the way to one because i don't know that this is gonna crack jeff's top five but i do believe it'll probably be in his top 10 and so we'll see where it lays number 10 is currently at holiday that's the michello episode number nine was touchstone number eight was in the line of duty that's where we met Jolin, our serpents song.

[18:33] That's where we got old Apophis Tokrah parts one and two spirits with Tamane Thor's chariot secrets, serpents, grass and serpents layer.
That was the, uh, season one, season two, uh, cliffhanger.
And then the number one episode of the entire season is the fifth race.

[18:52] Jeff, you can put this anywhere from two and two to 10, and I'm not gonna be mad at you what you got.
This isn't where I'm putting it. I'll tell you where my initial thought was looking at it as I was, I was going to make this the new number five, um, pushing spirits out of the top, um, the top five.

[19:08] And I feel pretty good about that ranking until I look down at the next couple and it's like, God, there's some great episodes.
So ultimately this is going to do a thing that I'm kind of uncomfortable with, but this is going to flush in the line of duty down to number nine, as this is going to be our new number eight episode.
You're fired. That was a good one.
Fired. You're fired. Listen, I love Spirits. Spirits is a great episode.
There is no way you can tell me Spirits is one, two, three, three spots higher, four spots higher than 1969.
You cannot tell me that. You know a better way of saying that?
Is there's no way that Spirits is one higher than the Tok'ra parts one and two or two of Serpent's Song.
There's no way that Serpent's Song is one better than 1969 or Tok'ra is two better than 1969. No way.

[20:04] There's no way. Although I did say anywhere between two and 10, we'd be fine with. So whatever.
I think for me as a holiday out of the top 10 to keep spirits and Tokra. Yeah.
And serpents. I mean, my God, you've year.

[20:19] Listen, that just speaks to the quality of the season, because I tell you what spirits spirits was a flogging good episode.
It is low key. Great episode. I hope you catch as much flack for spirits as you caught for TKO.
Mayo i hope you've caught that much that much fun because i will i will still defend spirits it was that it was a great episode i think for me with 1969 what it kind of comes down to what a fun awesome episode it was a celebration it was all those great things but i'm a first time.

[20:47] Viewer who knows there are like seven eight more seasons after this so i'm interested in that stuff that's moving the story forward in ways you know so yeah listen your your ranking is your ranking that's a a thousand percent fair i do feel the need though as we're in the middle of of route as we're recording this jeff we're rounding the corner on babylon 5 okay um there is no overarching story moving forward in stargate it is an episodic show that is fully self-realized and and grows the show grows as the characters grow or characters grow as a show whatever uh there's there's no no plan there's no story so to speak going forward but it well i think there's a universe though there's a universe right so learning about the tokara learning about the you know the the the technology that's out there and just the world building that happens that is true yep i just want to make sure that you're clear there is no overarching plan of a story going through but there is there is definitely progress you get to the end of this you could write the stargate story But it's all retrospective.

[22:00] And I even think, too, like we're doing a lot of universe and world building. I love it. It's amazing.
That wasn't planned, right? They're like, hey, here's this idea.
Oh, let's do this. And then let's do this and then tie it together somehow.
So I get like this is just kind of riffing. What if what if they go back in 1969? Who's back? They could go meet Catherine.
Look, and they can they can reference all this. They can reference the the meeting him.
They can reference, you know, her dad finding the dig and Ernest Littlefield.
We can reference all that just to sort of prove because it makes sense because you know what would happen if they if they went to meet catherine and they didn't reference ernest littlefield, you and i would be sitting right here talking about why didn't they reference ernest littlefield exactly that was the whole point of that awesome episode so jeff puts it in at number too low is the number he put it in uh jeff we didn't get any for crying out louds and deeds or daniel deaths in this episode did we zero we will not update those and with that that officially is going to put a button here on uh 1969 would you care to sing it one more time jeff before we go no i really don't i don't think anyone wants me to either i don't either all right well guys uh that's it yay next week jeff you referenced this earlier and i will confirm we are watching the season two finale it is a two-parter a cliffhanger into season three we will be doing those together.

[23:21] So buckle in for next week, the two episodes are called out of mind and into the fire.
So out of mind into the fire, it's not a part one, part two per name, but it it's, it's one story, it's a to be continued and we pick up right where we left off.
Uh, so Jeff, what do you think out of mind and into the fire.
And that the fire is a super loaded, uh, title, especially for where we are in our Babylon five record.
It is. Oh, that was such a crazy title. episode that was a great episode oh my gosh number one episode number one episode of Babylon 5 for me so far.

[23:55] Out of mind and into the fire. Yeah.
I'm not going to break it down episode by episode. The overall piece is going to, we're going to tie back to the Apophis stuff and the Tok'ra and all that.
And so there's going to be a, this is going to be a conflict between the Gould and the Tok'ra.
And I think I've predicted this before, but basically this will start, you know, ramp up and then the, the season three opener will be basically a, the wrap up of a conflict between those little set things on a new trajectory.
So your prediction then is that the the season two finale will set up the season three beginning in season three will wrap up will set up in season two yes you're a good guesser jeff oh yeah sure you're a good guesser well jeff uh that is going to do it for us then today on stargate sg1 for the first time still not a star trek podcast despite us getting a uh James T.
Kirk USS Enterprise drop in the middle of this episode. Great.
Thank you guys so much out there for joining us. We really appreciate it.
And hey, like we said earlier, if you want to stick around for an entirely stupid theoretical could be maybe possible conversation, you can do that after the show today.

[25:08] Don't forget wherever you subscribe to us, leave us a rating, a review.
Please share this podcast with somebody that you know who loves Stargate or needs to get into the gate for the very first time.
Incredible series lots of fun tilk should have said groovy until next time folks we will see so close yes sir what's up jeff the other day that um like that whole spy thing right yeah i mean you're you're not a soviet spy right yeah oh for crying out loud.

[25:42] Music.

[25:52] We talked a lot about the rule so sam when she was riding on her high horse that was on a soapbox around what they could and couldn't do there was really all the sci-fi tropes about you know the grandfather paradox that if you do this and there wasn't that and we saw some you know just those well you couldn't this don't tell him that because you'll mess this up you shared a lot so i'm gonna i'm gonna edify you and bring you up a little bit brent understand brent's just a podcaster right just homeschools his kids and talks about you know football and sci-fi all the time that's it that's it yeah yeah also if you had his name out and whatever there are a series of letters after his name that you have to like pay a lot of money and spend a lot of time in a classroom to get my friend my co-host brent allen is a highly educated individual who has the time of this recording is actually working on another degree for fun.

[26:49] Literally for a good time so so don't take this as just like brent be like i watch a lot of sci-fi this is how it works no this is how it works brent break down time travel for us like okay look here's the deal if time travel is possible and i'm not saying that it is impossible i'm not saying it is possible my personal suspicion is time travel is possible one uh and this is well i don't even go go with that uh time is a closed loop or not closed it's closed sphere i would say okay but time um assume with me time travel is possible okay you know what is impossible are paradoxes uh this whole idea of being able to go back in time uh kill your grandfather and then you're never born and you create a paradox this is all stuff that's made up for drama and novels and in fiction, and that's not actually the way it would work.
If you go back in time and you kill your grandfather, you always went back in time and killed your grandfather.

[27:50] Therefore that guy wasn't actually your grandfather. So you need to go have a conversation with your grandma.
What really happened here? And, and this, this episode goes back and proves it.
Every, every bit of time travel in this episode was cyclical, spherical, whatever. Whatever it Hammond always met these guys way back in 1969. That didn't change.

[28:12] Cassie always sent them back to their past. That never changed.
They always had these interactions. Those things never changed.
What happened is what happened in it.
That affected us here today because it's, it's really just the, it's just the loop.
If I go back and kill my grandfather, then I'm never born, which means I don't go back to kill my grandfather, which means our grandfather is there, which means I am then born.
And it's not a paradox. Those two things can't happen.
It's if I go back in time, I always went back in time. I was always there.
And it's what I love so much and appreciate so much about the, uh, prisoner norvascaban book because in that book that's exactly how time travel is written and and what they use until later on in the series when they mess that whole thing completely up and then they undo it and i get very very sad but uh yeah time travel is uh i do believe it's possible but you're also you're never going to change the past it is impossible to change the past you cannot change change the past, not because of permission, but because you can't actually change the past.

[29:26] Because we're a sci-fi thing. I'm gonna use the word paradox just because that's a word they use for this stuff. I'm gonna call that the wild stallions paradox.

[29:34] Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, hey, we gotta make sure that the, that I record the, the things.
So my dad goes over here and the, and the trash can that comes down, those things always happened.
You always did it. Yeah. So crates left ancient Greece to come forward and then went back.
Like that was what always always happened abraham lincoln genghis khan they always joan of arc yeah yeah all how june of arc was able to go back and like really get her army in shape because she you know learned the aerobics and stuff it's just i mean well when you're a maniac on the floor then how can you not take over europe now what i want to push back on that whole theory though just a little bit so that's science that you've brought forward theoretical science theories based in uh in a container of scientific uh practice yeah okay yeah yeah yeah and and to your point that you made even during the episode like that's an approach from like a physics and you know astrophysical almost perspective there are physicists who do not agree with that and And physicists who do agree with that.
Yeah, and nobody actually knows because nobody's done it.
So I think Stephen Hawking knows because he actually held a party for time travelers and no one showed up.

[30:53] That actually happened. I mean, that's all the proof you need.
Maybe just Stephen Hawking's an awful host and forgot to send out invitations and whatnot.
But where I want to bring in a theory that's not scientific at all, more spiritual, and I'm going to bring Deepak Chopra into this conversation.
Okay. Deepak says, the past is gone. The future is not here.
He also says the past is a memory and the future a dream.
The only thing that exists is now.
And our perception as human beings, I'm out of sight of his quotes now, but our perception as human beings, by the time we perceive now, it's the past.
So everything that we're perceiving and doing right now doesn't actually exist.

[31:40] So if that's the case, does time exist at all?
Or is everything that's happened just a memory that exists in our minds and didn't actually happen in any way?
It's a neat concept. it's an interesting concept like several things in physics truthfully it actually gets to be more philosophical than actually physics and uh it really just depends on how you define your words at this point so you know without getting into the too too deep nitty-gritty sure if that's how you want to define those words what is time the question is then what is time yeah time we talk talk about things existing in time and space, right? Like that's the thing, but space exists.
We, we can sense it. We can feel it. We can measure it. We can all those things.
Time is a manmade construct.
I mean, there was yesterday. There will be tomorrow. It it's a manmade construct in the same way that space is a manmade construct because you, you think about space, uh, we, we, you can only think about space with it being finite.
You, you, you cannot comprehend space.
You only understand space in terms of being finite.

[32:48] Um even when we try to put models of the universe out there there's we still put boundaries and edges on the edge of the universe we talk about how the universe is still constantly expanding the universe cannot expand unless there's a boundary yeah and in that same way the way deepak chopra is defining time is is as a particular experience in a particular moment at a moment in time uh because if you don't have time you don't have moments i'm throwing that out out there but also uh we may want to i don't know how we want to edit this for the show because wow this is getting way off in the weeds but when when we discuss time we discuss time in the context of the entire experience of everyone and everything of everything everywhere all at once when when we discuss time we discuss it in that context not does it because what you're saying there is does the individual second actually matter because this poofs and that poofs yeah but we also talk time.

[33:42] Is okay here's the thing um because i believe time is is spherical i mentioned that phrase spherical the thing about a sphere is you have a center point of a sphere and we can discuss what we think the center point of the sphere is but from the center point of the sphere all points are equidistant which means past present future all are happening at exactly the same time from the center of the universe.
I like that. Which is why if you can get into the center of that sphere.

[34:15] You can go to any other point in time, equal distant, and it all is happening at the exact same time.
And that lines up with Deepak Chopra's thing of the only thing that exists is now because now in the center of the sphere encompasses the past, the present and the future.
Uh-huh. And you're equal distant from the, from the, and the best way that I can always think about it is is a novel or let's even just say the the author of a novel for that author the the of the story the past the present and the future all exist coexist at the exact same time for the author they're just laying it out in a way that happens to have an order to it and they can dive into the fast they can dive into the middle of the devin at whatever point they choose to dive into it is equal distant for them metaphors all break down at some point so i don't want to go too far off into that but i don't know that you and i have ever gotten this deep into this conversation before which might be why we're going on about it but i'm going to go a layer deeper just real quick just to introduce but because when you were talking about welcome patreon to brent and jeff just hanging out this is how brent and jeff go just hanging out go ahead jeff we are nerds so that is a thing we do.

[35:25] I'm trying, I'm trying my best not to pontificate because there is no real definitive answer out there that is currently testable with any methods that we have.
So it's just really a matter of lots of equations on boards, thinking about it and trying to figure out how it works and what makes the most sense.
Yeah. And like you said, it, it, it ends up hitting philosophy.
It's well, it's untestable hypothesis is, is honest, which makes it actually not really a hypothesis, but whatever.

[35:50] I, I'm reminded. So you're talking about how we have to define find space with limits right it has to be finite in those pieces and and that's a thing that we struggle with in with time as well we uh we like the concept of a infinite god or infinite being is not understandable by us we need limits which makes me think of spinoza who was a philosopher in the 17th century who by the way i won't deep dive but incredible views on religion and god that are actually reflected in babylon 5 in a really good way but he talks about how there's there are things that have substance and then there are the things that are the result of that substance and substance is a thing that you can describe without referencing anything else so like if you couldn't reference anything how would you describe what an iphone is you can't i use that to talk to other people what is talking what are other people i use that to transmit data what is data how do you train you know so you ask those questions so what is space what is time can you describe those things without referencing other things i'm not going to go into the exercise of doing i'm just kind of planning this is our segue out of here at a thought exercise but if you can describe those without referencing.

[37:10] Anything else their substance and they truly really exist on their own but if you have to reference something else space is the uh the amount of whatever between this point and this oh between these points you have that stuff it's finite there's boundaries you have to reference and what are here here's here's the weird thing you know i said a minute in order to conceive space you have to conceive it with boundaries that just a space.

[37:34] The very idea of the edge of space an expanding space means that it's contained you also automatically think of what is outside the container like what's it expanding in you yeah you you think of that is it expanding in the sphere that is time like we could it's it's a wild thing all the way around i will tell you this you you mentioned god and spiritual stuff and things like that and again this is a suspicion i am if i can ever get the the funding and the ability to go in and actually do testing and and really dig this out you know marvel the mcu right now is exploring this idea of the multiverse uh physics tells us the multiverse is possible multiverse probably exists out there.
I have a suspicion. I have a curiosity, a thing.

[38:26] What if what the multiverse actually is are the, what we would call the mystical spiritual realm today?
Like, so God and angels and demons and these things are actually beings that exist in another universe.
Like, here's what I don't think the multiverse is. I don't think the the multiverse is, is every choice you make can have it, you know, an infinite amount of choices and, and then each one of those, and then it spiderwebs out and each one of those.
It's not Schrodinger's more, you know, multiverse. No, no, it's no, I mean, there's not a million universes out there hanging on whether or not I chose to wear socks today or not, you know, um, it's, it's not that, but, uh, I do, I do think it is possible that there are, that there, that the multiverse and we do do see places where the various verses out there in the multiverse can cross over and interact with each other.
And when we think about what dark matter is and where dark matter come, people don't know what dark matter, like that's a big field of study right now is dark matter and how do we, you know, there, there are forces of gravity out there in the universe right now that we can't account for. Yeah. No reason it exists.
There's zero accounting for it. Why not? not multiverse stuff that actually impacts our own universe right now and we impact theirs and what does that look like?
And I, I, you know, uh, alien potentially even like alien encounters and stuff really are more multiversal.

[39:54] Like crossovers and things. So anyway, again, is there any real substance to that?
No, no, it's need to think about, but it's need to think about, yeah, it's, it's possible.
Physics says it's possible. Exactly. Exactly. And that makes it worth exploring and thinking about.