Learning Curve

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Learning Curve - Season 3, Episode 5

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Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:13] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time. And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time looking for messages. I've seen the show quite a few times, but I've never looked at it through the lens of what is Stargate trying to teach us. What are those sci-fi messages that this show is trying to put out there? Where is it holding up a mirror to society? Where is it giving us hope that things can be better in the future? Where is it teaching us just how to be better human beings to one another? This week, Brent, we're watching the fifth episode of the third season of SG1, Learning Curve. And my prediction was pretty high level and weak. It's that they're going to run into some huge new tech that's like a big deal. And they have to learn how to use it. Yeah, so we'll see. Do you have any cool facts on Learning Curve? Not really. This is a Martin Wood joint. Oh, cool. Nice. It's Martin Wood. It's fifth episode, season three, July 23rd, 1999. So we're still right in line with our previous few episodes as we go. So Jeff, with that, let's go ahead and jump into this episode and watch it. If you guys are joining us for the very first time, here's how this works.

[1:27] Jeff and I are going to go watch this episode right now. We're going to watch it right now. And by go means we're actually going to stay right here and live here on the video. We are going to watch this episode. If you're watching this on YouTube, you're going to get the cut-up reaction video. If you want to see the full version of it, you head over to patreon.com slash.

[1:47] Bye, nerds. And you guys can check out everything over there. And if you're listening on a podcast app, you're about to gate into the future. You'll join us on the other side where I will share my first-time reactions. Brent will share any of the sci-fi messages that he may or may not, but I think may, have found in this one. Brent, let's jump in to Learning Curve. Camera 7 locked camera 7 An archaeological dig thing? Is Daniel's dad there? They're working on some stones. I was going to say, it feels like that same set to me. It really does. That's perfect, Aaron, just like that. Are those kids? Oh, they're going to kill a kid. It's okay. It's just my friend's return. My B5 PTSD right there. Wait. I will tell you Stargate is not.

[2:46] I like that angle. Like it's just a different angle on the Stargate with the whooshing. That was cool. Hello, children. Both Maren and I are eager to participate in this exchange between our worlds. Major Carter's eager as well. She's really looking forward to it. So is Teal'c. Indeed. I will share my knowledge of the Goa'u freely. Teal'c's eager on the inside. Then if you are ready to leave... Galen, I was under the impression we were bringing back one of your Naquita reactors. This is the device? That little thing? It's a Borg rectangle. It is. It absolutely is. Okay. Daniel, have fun. Oh, you will. That's the production model of one of the Borg ships we didn't see. Uh-huh. Because the rectangular object.

[3:32] That's a big deal. A reactor, a Naquita reactor. They're one of the most impressive societies we've ever come across, sir. They've managed to accomplish in a few decades what it took humans over a century to achieve. Sounds like these people might make good allies. I think so. Major Carter, please allow Marin to present you with this Nequita reactor. It's clearly a heavy device. You may study it for the duration of our exchange. Study it. If you will allow, I would like to offer a tour of... The exchange has been made. We're out. We will return to Orbat now. Sam almost looks like she got Daniel's butt haircut. Someone needs to teach me how to use this. Explaining how the reactor functions, its components, its construction. But it looks better on her. I do not have this knowledge. Yeah, it works. I will teach you. The kid is going to teach her. Okay.

[4:19] All right. Kid's going to do a thing. They're going to teach. And they're like apprentices of some kind. Apprentices to the adults, they said. And it's just kind of the way they do things, you know. So, Maren, I understand you're a reactor expert. I love how he talks, like, he just talks to her like a person. Like, he's just... Yeah. Jack's great with kids. I think we've seen that quite a few times. I'll depend on that. Let's come back and talk to that when we get to the end of this episode. Okay. I remember when I was 11 putting the reactors together. Teal'c, you will please tell him of the Goa'uld. You are most generous to offer your knowledge, Teal'c. Kaylin, there was an apprentice here earlier, Zarin. Do you know where she went? Zarin is not here. It was past her time to experience her ovarium. Ovarium. Ovarium. Is that like a graduation? That is an approximate definition.

[5:16] What is your purpose? What is your purpose?

[5:21] Why do you exist, child? Dr. Jackson tells us you were once a warrior in service of the go-out world. That is correct. I think I understand now why the go-out worlds are so feared. Oh, look at that. Oh, yeah, Tulk felt it, too. He's like, oh, this kid knows what's up. Hurts a little bit, huh? So clearly his kids are apprentices. They grow up a little fast. Like, they're very mature. How's our little rocket scientist? Educated for their age. We are almost done, Colonel. If I allow the symbiote that I carried to me.

[5:46] Perpetuating all that i oppose tilk's future plans not find a host for this girl it will die as will i if the girl dies then you will die as well only if he doesn't get a new ghoul that would be unfortunate right you know what i love jeff what's that is like this kid understands that teal'c used to be in service of the ghoul he's not scared of him at all like he says like i understand why they were so whatever but he is fully accepting of teal'c as a human and an individual and is like immediately showing compassion for this man for what might eventually happen to him or will likely eventually happen to him you know it's almost it's almost the um these kids obviously like to do some dnd parlance they're not just intelligent they also have very high wisdom yeah and with their wisdom they're not as judgy more accepting able to have compassion like a lot of these you know aspects of emotional intelligence are more accessible to them because they are wise. Or there's the innocence piece. Or they haven't been taught to hate. That's what often happens. Right. Told that, yeah, they're ghouls, so they're evil. Like O'Neill thought for so long.

[6:53] Teotihuacan flourished for centuries as a religious and economic mecca before suffering a great upheaval in 750 A.D. Now, I think that your people could be the descendants of that civilization. Do you believe the arrival of the Goua world caused Teotihuacan's downfall? Yes. I want to hear Michael Shanks rap. like yeah he was he was hitting that with a quick like let it let him let him get the the the words on top of the words like journey with me into the mind of a maniac i'm gonna tell you all about the aztec now see you're going too slow in the very beginning when i just a couple of follow-up tests have questions about her gonorrhea over here cracking myself up i get a little sign, Trinium. This is in her. but it is definitely not found on earth. Okay, even I know that's bad. Well, I found out what was responsible. What? A nanite. She's got nanites in her blood? Yes, however, it still didn't explain Maren's abnormally high neuropeptide levels. So I did a computer-enhanced MRI. You ready for this one? There's millions of them. They've infested that little girl's brain. Wow.

[8:11] Hey, remember that episode, Jeff? I do. These nanites were created by Orbanians in an Orbanian laboratory 49 years ago. All of my people have them. It is a way to acquire knowledge. Wait a minute, so you're saying, Maren, that all Orbanians' brains look like this? Each citizen receives a nanite after every ovarium. These nanites act as additional synapses. Yes, but that is all they do. They do not age us and cannot leave the brain. Feels like they're farming the kids almost. Like... Father? I wonder if they have, like, breeding facilities or something, and they're pumping them full of nanites. I'm going to do six months until you turn 12. I'm concerned by what Tealcus told me of these go at home. If they learn of our existence, they will destroy us. The studies I've made is a new one about defense technologies, but it's now put to use so that Ormond can make it in preparations. I will notify the elders. You've learned well, my son. Let me help out with something just to take your brain off of it so you can focus on what's happening. These are not robots. These are natural born children. So like that kid really is dude's son. Okay. Okay.

[9:12] And did you catch what she said happens, like what the ovarium is for them? So i caught that as infants they pump them full of the nanites so they can before the neural synapses come up but i didn't catch the ovarium so what happens is basically these kids uh they form these neural pathways with this with the the extra nanites like all these really which allows them to learn super fast and super quick and they go in and so each one of these guys is doing something different right so toman toman i think was his name um he just said he's doing defenses stuff she's obviously doing naquito reactor stuff so what happens is when they reach the age of 12 they undergo the ovarium where they take out those nanites from the brain and they give one to each of the citizens and all of that information they've learned is spread throughout the community and that's how they learn as a society okay is you know they allow the children to get juiced up so they can learn and then they learn and then you disseminate that information to society okay all Right. So that's, that's what's happening. So they, like I said, these are actual children. Like they're real. They're not whatever.

[10:24] You know, I'll, I'll leave it to you to decide if they actually care for their children or how that actually looks, you know, I'll let you see. So you ready? Yeah. Teal'c, you will please tell Solan Methods to fight the Gul'aul, which weapons and strategies have been effective in their defeat. Also anything in your experience as first prime to Apophis that would be of assistance. It is an honor to accept your knowledge, Teal'c. Perhaps it would be better for Tommen to return. He's like, I don't want this kid. He is unavailable. Solen will learn now. Tommen is already familiar with the subject. He has given us his knowledge. Please, you will talk to Solen. Well, Teal'c has a point. I mean, if they've already established a rapport. I've told you it is impossible for Tommen to be here. He has gone through the ovarium. Please, Teal'c, begin. I would like to see Tommen immediately. Yeah, how do they get the nanites out? Carter!

[11:14] Oh, Maren, I am so sorry. I'm so sorry, but you are such a boring kid. Are you right? Wow.

[11:22] These are amazing. If I scan these into the computer, I can come up with a three-dimensional representation of the reactor's interior. In just a few years, you can print that. Give it a rest? I was just thinking that. Both of you. You've been at this for 24 hours. You need rest. This guy's super sketch. Oh, it's the road. Yeah. Oh, look, there he is. It is Duke. Jalen. Explain this ovarium. It is the ceremony in which an Uron's nanites are removed and then distributed. Each adult and each non-Uron child then receives an injection containing one nanite, which becomes part of his or her synaptic network, adding to those nanites received from previous ovariums. So when you say he gave you his knowledge, you meant it literally. It was a beautiful ceremony. Now you have seen. We must resume our work, Dr. Jackson. What will become of Tommen? He stays here with the other past Uron. That's it? You play with him? What is play? Interacting with him, teaching him new things. These children cannot be taught. Have you ever tried? Oh, yes, but past Uron children cannot receive new nanites. The brain rejects them. Well, have you ever tried teaching them without nanites? That's just silly. What do you mean? I have no concept of what that means. There is no need for concern. These children are well cared for. Kalen, this is your son. My son is here now. He carries his son with him. Always. Always.

[12:39] And so does everyone else. Kalen says that he's not brain damaged. Clearly he was not himself. We do not harm our children, Dr. Jackson. You have seen Toman. You have seen how well he is cared for. Okay, I think we can work this out. We just need to sit down and discuss some alternatives. There are no alternatives. Maren must undergo the ovarium. You will return her immediately.

[12:59] There you go. Boom. She's already refused amnesty, Colonel. General, it's obvious the little girl has been brainwashed. Not brainwashed. Brain programmed. It's trying. Very peaceful people. except for discarding their kids. You will return me to Orban. You do understand we're trying to help, right? I don't need your help.

[13:23] You will not return Maren to us. I will retrieve her myself. Don't transmit a special code. They will close the iris and you won't get through. You will die. You will smash. I feel like the kids, like the kid actors are great. This guy is not. You claim to love knowledge, Yet when you find something you don't like, you demand that we change to please you. No, it is not to please me. You are an incredibly advanced society. Why can't you find a better way to educate your people? There is no better way than the Avarium. Even if that means giving up your son. It was the happiest day of my life when Tommen was selected to be Uron. Without her Avarium, the people who are awaiting her knowledge to continue their research, they will have to wait 12 years for another Uron to learn. Well, I didn't know that. Of course you didn't. You didn't have all the facts. She does not question her duty. It is you, Dr. Jackson, who are misguided to think that you can convince her otherwise.

[14:14] Okay, by reversing the polarity... That's the answer to everything. Reversing the polarity. That's it. We're in business. Why would you let me give you the solution? What would have been the fun in that? It's fun, you keep saying. The way you treat your children is absurd. You don't deserve them. Colonel Neal, request permission to be excused, sir. And I'm taking it. Yes, sir, we're fine. It was just the reactor. No, Jack. No, no, no, no, no. There's no threat to the base. Just what Jack needs. A little distraction on the base. Interesting this alarm is going off right now. There's something I have to show you, but I have to take you off the base for it. It's an ice cream shop. You do not have permission. It's a Chuck E. Cheese. We're going to have fun.

[15:02] You're a good guesser, Major. Now, I'd like you to bring Marin to my office. Oh, Colonel O'Neal just left with her. Bum, bum, bum. Thank you, Major. That's Hammond. Oh, shoot face. This is happening. If Colonel O'Neill attempts to leave, you're ordered to... Shoot him on sight. He already did. I see. And that's his, oh, damn face. You call this the playground. It's like an institution back there. Well, just watch. It's actually a real school in Canada. Bambinas, que coriche, California, pizzeria. I don't know your ass. Okay, let's try this again.

[15:43] Just rip that up, man. Something you love. I love the reactor. Something that's not a machine. I love Naquita. The music really sells this whole... Uh-huh. ...weepy thing. There is no purple. Use this. Don't stop with one. Paint the whole garden. I will tell you, she is much more compliant than my kids. Pretty much any kid. Yeah. It's good editing. Start doing a thing, and then we'll actually do it. Oh, look at that. She's drawing Sam because she loves Sam. I like that class is over and everybody's gone home. But Jack's like, I'm going to stick around. He's like, I'm so cool, I have to stay within 1,000 feet of a school zone. It's a representation of Major Carter. I have something for you. Jeff, watch. They even have the sharpener in the back Yep 96 crayons Bougie set right there That's enough to let a few melt in the driveway A few melt in your car Eat some of them Break them, Chew them up.

[16:54] And criminal charges Like you literally kidnapped a child For a few hours today, I got to show that little girl how to be a kid. You want to punish me? Go ahead. Jack's a good dude. I don't care what you say. Yeah, 100%. I just made a note to that effect that we will talk about shortly. She gave dude, there's the NACO to reactor, and then the box of crayons chilling on top of it.

[17:18] Aw. Smile back at Jack. Dude, his outfit would be so easy to cosplay and be such a deep cut. Like, see if anybody catches it. You'd get it. We just received a transmission from Orban. Kalen asked for all of you to go there right away. Is there something wrong? You'll find out when you get there. Celebrate her ovarian. Why is Jack not in the break right now? General Hammond has a heart. Outweighs his love for the uniform-coded military. I think they all need to go get fully geared up. Oh, nothing is wrong. I will show you. It's going to go... Oh. Oh, they changed the retirement home. Look, isn't it wonderful? So then, so then. Look, it's Tommen. Colonel O'Neill, this is my son Tommen. I am teaching him. All of the past Uron children will now learn. In the old-fashioned way, as you might say. He will know all that you have done for Orban. Oh, I... I drew this for you. Oh. Isn't it... Me. I love how excited he is about it, too. When did all this start? Last night, after Meron's avarium. She must have known this would happen once her nanites were transferred. This is what she learned. Oh.

[18:35] Oh, see that, Jeff? Look up. Yeah. Oh, tilky tilky, baby. Hey, did you not touch that? It kind of hurt. It's seared into me. I guess we'll just have to get to know one another all over again.

[18:53] You're right. What was I thinking? he's like this is awesome you ever seen a dog I love drawing on the wall dogs are my favorite people, on an adult level I love that he was like he didn't tell her no he didn't what'd you do that for you just rolled with it, And there's a lot of little things he did, too. Like, he didn't stand up and look down at her. He sat down, came to her level. You know, just a lot of those little things that make such a huge difference.

[19:31] All right, Jeff. So you have just watched Learning Curve for the very first time. Take us through it, bud. What did you think? You know, at first, I didn't really care for this episode very much. Like, for quite a while, I was like, eh, it's interesting. It's kind of, you know, whatever. I thought it was an interesting take on a society, right? So they learn by planting nanites, and then they spread those nanites around. They put the kids in basically a retirement home when they're done, and it's just like this totally unemotional, very efficient society, which to me, frankly, sounded great.

[20:06] What you're telling me is I'm just going to learn all this stuff, and we're just going to be efficient and get things done all the time? Yeah, that sounds fun to me. they didn't know much about fun uh in this until it came around this i feel like this episode tried to be a couple different things at the same time yeah and did a really good job at being one of those things so what i wanted it to do better at but it introduced is a theme that we've run into a couple times in stargate now in that this group uh the um the orban or or orban orbon Orbon. Yeah. Wow. How many different ways can I say that? The Orbon have this society, this culture that works for them. Like they're making rapid technological advancements. They're spreading knowledge around. It works really well for them. No one is on that planet being like, this isn't cool. This doesn't work for us. But as soon as SG-1 interacts with them, they don't like the way things are. And so I'm going to take my values, my ethics, and judge you based on those. Yeah.

[21:17] And there was literally a scene where a dude from the planet was like, let me help you understand. And Jack's like, I don't want to understand. You just straight shut him down. And we've seen this happen quite a bit. I hope that we get some more exploration of this. Because to me, it's the anti-message of Star Trek. But it is the theme of Star Trek, especially the original series. I think Jack in this episode was channeling Captain Kirk through everything. I'm going to come and I'm going to shut your computer down and force a new cultural norm on you and then leave, basically. But also, he was Captain Kirk in that some kids showed up and he was all about helping those kids out. I think about Miri, the TOS episode Miri. It's like you last week and even this week have talked about this is an episode that could fit anywhere in Star Trek. Absolutely, 100%, but it belongs in the original series. This story belongs with Captain Kirk. If Picard was in this, it'd be a very different take. It would still work, right? But just be different. I made a note partway through on this that Jack makes this episode. Yeah. His, once we get past this, my culture or no culture thing, and we just see the compassion that he has for kids.

[22:47] You know, this incredible scene where they go to the, they go to the school that looks like an institution. Like, that's horrible. But the kids come running out. They're excited to see him. The one, like one student paints him as the thing that, you know, that she loves. And it's like he takes time out of his life to go be a part of these kids lives he literally this dude can literally walk up off the street onto the playground and people don't bat an eye at it they're excited that he's there right and the teacher and the dude could be like hey can you take another student for a class or two and like yeah sure you could not do that not not today in any school. Have you been background checked? Have we filled out information? Do you have their vaccine records? Has this kid gone through registration? Are they properly placed? Do we have their records from their other schools? We need a.

[23:42] Yeah. Yeah. So, so the end, this episode really hit me in a, in a really positive way. I think it just, and it's, I mean, it had to do this, right? I had to come in as a sci-fi episode, you know, here we are on different planet, the Aztecs, you know, kind of a cool lift from them. But to your point, a bunch of very, very white European looking Aztecs that, uh, took over this planet. Well, that'd be post Spanish conquest, right? Yeah. Like very like multi, multi generational post where they came around, but it's, I mean, it's a fantastic sci-fi concept, but they had to like, that wasn't the important part of the episode, you know, like it was interesting and kind of cool. It gave me matrix vibes, you know, of like, we're going to plug this thing in and you're just going to, going to know it, which God, that'd be, that'd be awesome. But this was really an episode about like caring for people that are more vulnerable than you. People who can't really speak for themselves.

[24:40] And Jack did an incredible job, really on the compassion side more than anything. I still think that his intent was to stop her from going back and having the ovarium happen and have all the nanites sucked out of her head. That was his intent. What he ended up doing was teaching her about fun so that when she went and spread the nanites all of a sudden they learned about fun amazing ending totally unintended like even jack was like oh that's what she learned wow good good thing it worked out like that you know this could have gone a very very different way the music we brought the music and if i may add to that when he got there and he saw her post ovarium he he saw a few things but one was maybe it's not as bad now she's not a vegetable he was being very over the top with that she certainly was not the same kid she didn't she didn't have the same uh knowledge the same you know all those things that make you you like what is it that makes you you your personality that all been stripped away from her except for the little girl that was having fun drawing yeah which we saw multiple times throughout the episode even when she's there with the piece of paper in sam's lab and the ruler and the protractor and everything and like it was very clinical at that time but.

[26:04] She kind of was digging it you could kind of get catch the vibe and then later when we saw her in the art class and stuff and now we see her out there she's just having she's holding the crayon the wrong way and everything just going at it smiling enjoying it you know it's like that's marin you know and his answer i loved his answer what'd he say yeah he's like gonna have to get to know you all over again have to get to know each other all over again let's do it and it was okay like would have been better if she'd still been there but but let me ask this though because the world because it is it is kind of one of the things they bring up a couple times the thing that makes you you was that her because i feel like we saw toman and we saw uh maron like.

[26:43] In in detail and i mean they had different subjects toman was about defense and you know military stuff and she was about the reactors but outside of the subject they were kind of the same person right they didn't have a personality they were just kind of they were very android you know very sungian android and how they spoke and everything so is who she was that little girl who liked drawing and stuff and they actually removed the thing that was stopping her from being her that's what i'm saying and that's what i'm saying like outside of that being the same thing you can still see that in between like jack literally brought that out in her and now you just see it on court yeah like that because like i think when he saw that like there's marin that's the marin i know is this girl who just loves drawing yeah so that begs an even bigger question like let's let's dive in we wouldn't have to dive into this but just kind of a thought what's happening what has happened in our personal lives what are our nanites what are the things that we have in us that are actually stopping us from being the who we really are yeah you know and And what's the show? What's the whatever that we are programming that we have? And who are we really in this culture? Bills. That's what it is. Stopping all of that is bills. That's for sure. Man.

[28:05] Yeah. Oof. That's a whole other. Adult life. Bills. Yeah, I'm not going to go down because I just, yeah, it's such a thing. I'm going to say, like, there's this show that I'm watching and there's this big deal where the guy's working as a temp. And all he wants is, like, to be hired permanently. And eventually they hire him permanently. And, like, he celebrates and he's all excited, like, validated as a person. And I'm like, dude, you got a job. Like, that's cool. But is that really where you derive your personal value from? Oh, my God. Yikes. But that's what our society has done. And that's part of our nanite programming, you know, like he wasn't a kid being like, God, I sure hope I can do it support at a, you know, at a small company. That'll be, that'll be awesome. We wanted that, you know, we're all dreamers. We want cool stuff. That doesn't say those things aren't fine or whatever, but I just think like with Marin, she was brilliant. She was able to, you know, help Sam build this amazing reactor, but that's not who she was. She was she was a sloppy expressive artist who got uncorked when they finally took the nanites out which was my daughter as a negative thing either way right yeah you know my daughter she was my daughter sloppy artist that's her very express here i'm gonna put it all out there but very loving and playful and smiley and everything we saw in that last two minutes with her.

[29:28] Yeah absolutely so yeah this one came around really well for me really strong and i think even just talking about it more it uh it really posed some big questions and some things to think about which i'm interested in uh we haven't talked about this on the audio podcast part but you actually watched this episode earlier today i did preparing yourself because you knew there was a lot of stuff in it so brett you've had some time to prep i want to hear about the sci-fi messages you found in this one yeah this is this is literally the first time jeff since we've started this show where i was like i've got to actually watch this beforehand because i know there's stuff there and i need to formulate some thoughts and uh you basically read a lot of my notes that i already have written down well look at that it's almost like it was part of the episode right but i'm gonna kind of go through it i said earlier in this episode maybe i think before we hit record this is an episode that star trek could have done in any season of any of its series and it would have fit right in no matter where you placed it in the franchise i agree with you it's best fit.

[30:27] Is original series possibly strange new worlds but it really could have gone in in any of them um sometimes an episode jeff is so heavy laden with messages it's it's kind of hard to speak to it for a while like you just got to let it sit with you and unless you're really really intentional you never really wrestle with what it's saying it just it's so good it's so overt but it's so subtle at the same time you're not really sure what to do with it like it's there just how do i verbalize it and that's the way i find myself with this kind of an episode is as i see it i can i can see that message but but how do i bring it into words that just doesn't make it sound like you're going in circles all the time you know um daniel says it right at the very top of the episode this is just kind of how they do things right but this is also one of those typical sci-fi particularly star trek shows where how much do we honor and respect another culture even when it goes against our fundamental beliefs of humanity right um fundamental beliefs like don't hurt the children right yeah looking at you jms don't hurt the.

[31:43] Children dren here's the difference though jeff this is where i think i really like this episode i think for the first time we actually have a real answer for what do you do when you encounter another culture that is diametrically opposed to yours and seems awful but it's their culture and it's their way of doing things if this was a tng episode maybe even strange new worlds the answer would basically i think be go in talk them to death reason with them and maybe try to get them to change their system right like that's how that would work if it was tos or even deep space nine they just say f it and we're gonna go do whatever i want and i'm gonna violate their culture i'm gonna violate their rights of sovereignty and then i'm gonna leave i like what you said that's literally whatever they're gonna leave and just let you figure it out on your own yeah good luck good luck we're gonna tear it down and take off right and then just you're just gonna do it if it was voyager january would have just full-on kidnapped all the children and taken them home with her that's how that one would have gone right um but here we got an actual answer of how do you deal with it because in the end maron and toman and solon and all of the other children are left on robon they're there to continue with the way their culture works they didn't necessarily change how their culture operates right now jack ultimately allowed the orban to take her and do what they do.

[33:05] But what did he do first? He showed her another way of living and another way of looking at things. Jack, I may add the one who wasn't smart, right? The one who wasn't smart.

[33:16] Took her and showed her how to be a kid earth style, which you and I would look at and definitively say, yeah, that's better. Right. That's the way to do it. You should be as a kid. Right. But again, we go to saying should be, that's our value system. That's our culture. I remember when I lived in South Korea, the way that they do things in South Korea, I definitively remember going, I do not want my kids growing up like this. Okay.

[33:41] I'm in the middle of it. I see how they're doing it. I see how they're operating it. And I said that is not a good way that's not how i want my kids to be raised i'm totally judging their culture i'm totally judging their deal based on my western american ideals yep you know just like they would do if they were in absolutely because there's a reason they do things the way that they do there's a reason that why things there's a reason why all the cool stuff's being made over there right now right yeah i mean i mean like you jeff i don't think for an instant that jack intended for what happened to be what happened i don't think he intended to change all of urbanian culture yeah i don't think he intended to go back and have everybody start drawing and playing hopscotch and playing with balls or or whatever right um i don't think he had some master plan to infect the entire group with fun as if he's some weird borg bomb that he's sending back to the collective. You know, he was solely concerned about the one he kind of, which is kind of, kind of messed up. He didn't care about the rest of them. He was concerned about Marin.

[34:50] Yeah, that is kind of, that is so weird. He didn't care about anybody else. He was concerned about Toman.

[34:55] He, he, to the, like literally was like, at one point all but saying i don't care about this kid i want toman yeah i don't know him i want the one that i know he was kind of doing the starfish thing have you ever heard that story, uh man goes out to a beach there's thousands upon thousands starfish washed up on the beach knowing that they're gonna that they're gonna die as the sun comes out he goes out and he starts.

[35:18] Chucking starfish back in and somebody else comes by and he's like hey what are you doing he's like well i gotta save the starfish man if they don't get back in the water and he looks and says why are you even bothering there's so many you're not even going to make a dent in it and he picks up the starfish one starfish he goes well it makes a difference to this one and he threw it back in picked up another makes a difference to this one threw that one back it's a great story you know what i mean like he was he was starfishing maron like i may not be able to change them all but i can change this one i can i can help this one that was his intent what's interesting though is it's kind of the way the universe tends to conspire with itself and i think ultimately the universe does tend to work things out for the betterment of all.

[35:59] You know, uh, his action had what I will say is the very unintended consequence. I think you would say that as well. Yeah.

[36:07] And that the people learned a different way of being, he was just trying to do it for the one and it wound up happening for everyone.

[36:14] Now here's, what's interesting. And the more I thought about this, those people, once they received her little nanite thing, they could have chosen to reject it. Yeah yeah they could have chosen to reject the fun they could have chosen to not embrace it but they didn't they saw it they went well that's a new experience we've never had there's an ignorance there we've never had we didn't i had no idea that this was even possible they didn't even know the word fun exactly they didn't know how to draw they didn't know how to play this was not even in their vocabulary but when they did it and they got into there and they're like yeah let's do wait what do you mean there's a different way that we can care for the past urone kids we're going to treat them very well well but what does well mean to you versus these other people well why don't you just teach them the way that old people get to i don't even know what you're talking about what do you mean like they weren't really communicating on those levels right um but what i think that proves though is the sheer fact they didn't reject it shows that the urbanians were not bad people they're not evil people yeah you know what i mean like because if they were they would have just said nope that's we're gonna completely keep all of that out this is what we do and how we do it yeah they just had a different way of doing things they had a different way of looking at societal roles societal responsibilities and they didn't know what they didn't know they were ignorant and in truth they were able to all come around because.

[37:39] Here's the great thing because of their system and because of the way it worked they were all able to partake of this because of the system yeah it's spread around immediately the way it was he would they would not this would not have gone through their entire society like it was it was amazing when did this happen last night like we we started this last night and it's just like it's infectious everywhere because of exactly that their system spread it do you see do you see how happy he looked how excited he was to share like yeah he was like a kid you know just what he was doing like a kid so all of that to say what is the message how do we boil this down because like i said i started this off by saying they did something here that star trek never does and that's provide the actual answer so often we've talked about how they present a problem but then they don't really discuss it a lot of times star trek presents a problem discusses and lets you figure out the answer. And if you don't stop to think about what is the answer and what side, this isn't a, this isn't a Tuvix situation where you know which side of the issue you're going to be on. This is kind of like, oh, I just want to see it from both sides. And well, I don't really know what the best way to do that is. Here's how I think we boil this one down. This is what I get out of this. You can't change people. They have to do it for themselves. Jack and Daniel and Teal were not going to change the Urbanians.

[38:56] They had to pick it for themselves. Now they needed the knowledge, they needed to be exposed to more ways of thinking. All you can really do is give them that knowledge. You can give them that experience, not necessarily by telling them about it, but by letting them actually experience it. Let them get a different way of looking at life. Let them make their own decision, even if you still find it revolting. Hey, by the way, I told you that thing about me going over to Korea. After living there for three years, being in the system that they're in, you know what I eventually realized? It's not that bad.

[39:32] It's not that awful. There are still some things I'd like to do different, but there's actually some really good things that need to be in there too. And here's how we grow. Here's how we change is by being able to look at things in a different way. Without judging what is so wrong with that culture over there, to be able to go in and be like okay well why do they do it this way what are the benefits of that what are the pieces that i want to take what are the pieces i want to have what are the ways i'm going to be changed by this culture sometimes it's more important jeff for us to be allow another culture to change us than it is for us to go change all the other cultures out there yeah definitely you know what i mean and i think that's really the answer that this gives jeff this is a seven chevron episode for me, up and down. No question.

[40:23] It was written. It was intentional. It was thoroughly discussed. It gave you an answer. Seven Chevron. Now Chevrons and rankings are two very different things. Very true. Chevrons are all about the message. The rankings all about how much you enjoyed this episode. Jeff, you, my friend, get to take this and place this and are 100% completely accurate definitive season three ranking of Stargate SG one. Our current top four. I'm going to guess this is going into the top five. It's a strong guess i think but our current top four are fair game into the fire seth and then followed by legacy which i cannot believe is that low but jeff where do you place learning curve just based on your sheer how much did you like this episode message notwithstanding so you brought up a very important uh point of order um on this one that i do want to address and that was um seth and legacy.

[41:19] You're a smart man, Jeff. I'm swapping those out. So legacy is a number three and Seth is a number four. I had some time to think about it. And to your point, right? Like, uh, I'm not stuck in my ways. I can listen and I can allow other cultures and experiences to influence and change me. So case in point. And this one, I, uh, I talked about how, uh, I went on a journey on this one. Like at first I wasn't really into it, but then it really grabbed me and this one grabbed me hard. Like this was, I'm going to, I'm going to link the ranking and the rating on this one, because what really struck me when you gave it the seven chevrons was my reaction was the message. Yeah. Like I came out with the message. That's how, not only how strong it was, but how well it was done.

[42:08] This Brent is our new number two episode of the season. I don't, I don't disagree. i don't disagree it's great and very much very much just on the strength of the writing yeah on this one yeah i agree with you i agree with you hey uh one thing that i do want to note uh you've mentioned it in this show you mentioned it a few times let's just say it for what it is jack has an incredible soft spot for kids he really does you know i mean look at what happened with Cassie look at what happened with that retu kid you know I know a few other kid things that come up hey spoiler alert there's going to be at least a handful more over the next eight seasons that we still go through you know.

[42:52] Jack's definitely got a soft spot for kids. No, no, whether that's a result of what happened with his son or that's who he is as a person and partly why his son affected him so much. Like obviously there's a son, but still bigger than that. Like Jack's a, it's just a good dude, man.

[43:09] Yeah. I got to think that he was a great dad, right? Like he was a really good dad and losing his son.

[43:16] Especially the way he lost his son was obviously in the, in the, film you know that was that changed him and darkened him quite a bit but as he's you know as time does its thing and he's doing his stuff he's like i feel like he he decided that he's a good dad or you know a good thing not only is he was but now he also believes that he is i don't know that he didn't before but like it shows he's like yeah this is a thing i can do i got this it's really cool seeing him operate like that uh also we came to know that there is such a thing as a knack with a reactor or knack with a generator kind of a big deal that's a thing uh jeff what was your prediction for this episode a piece of new tech that they're gonna have to figure out and that was that was sam's whole storylines figuring out this new tech oh there you go jeff i like it buddy you get high level enough you're gonna hit something right i like it buddy i like it i like it uh just to update we had no additions to our for crying out louds and deeds or daniel deaths counseling countings that we are doing although there's a perfect opportunity for an indeed oh my gosh there's so many so many um so jeff i guess with that um we're gonna call this a great episode television good 45 minutes could have worked anywhere uh good stuff i'm glad that this was in stargate not star trek i agree because it would have been different in star trek and i wouldn't i don't think i would have appreciated it as much so.

[44:44] With that, Jeff, it's time to move on to our next episode. Would you like to know we're watching next time here on Stargate SG1 for the first time? Yeah, I suppose so. We are watching an episode titled Point of View. Point of View. Point of View. Get high level, Jeff. Give us a point of view on Point of View. This is going to be an episode from the System Lord's perspective. We're going to see things happening from a different point of view. And the cool thing in that like i'm i'll be excited for is just getting that view into the system lord gould culture that we'll get a little bit of but um there'll be sg1 over here on the side doing a thing that'll intersect enough to make it the episode so this is a episode we'll see this from the system lord point of view all right well you're a good guesser jeff sure you're a good guesser well that's going to do it for us right here on stargate sg1 for the first time that's going to do it for us here with learning curve. Thank you guys out there so much for joining us. Hey, listen, don't forget wherever you are catching this show, whether you're on audible, Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube.

[45:48] Spotify, video, Patreon, whatever else we're on out there. I don't even know what all it's all out there, wherever you are, please leave us a rating and a review, a check mark stars, whatever it is they allow you to do. Please make sure you do that because what that does is that lets other people know that you are enjoying the show and they would probably enjoy it too, which helps more people find the show. Also, please be sure to share the show with somebody that you know who loves Stargate or maybe somebody like Jeff over there needs to get into the gate for the first time. So with that, until next time, folks.

[46:26] Yes, I love I love making this show with you. I'm so glad that you pulled me into Stargate. this is great. So I made something for you. Oh, it's you.

[46:42] Music.