Learning Curve

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Learning Curve - Season 3, Episode 5

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Transcript

SG1_305 Learning Curve

[0:00] Music.

[0:15] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast.

[0:20] My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time.
And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time looking for messages.
I've seen the show quite a few times, but I've never looked at it through the lens of what is Stargate trying to teach us.
What are those sci-fi messages that this show is trying to put out there?
Where is it holding up a mirror to society? society where is it giving us hope that things can be better in the future where is it teaching us just how to be better human beings to one another this week brent we're watching the fifth episode of the third season of sg1 learning curve and my prediction was pretty pretty high level and weak it's that they're gonna run into some huge new tech that's like a big deal and they have to learn they have to learn how to use it uh yeah so we'll see do you have any cool facts on learning curve not really this is a martin wood joint oh cool nice uh it's martin wood it's fifth episode season three july 23rd 1999 so we're still right in line with our our previous few episodes as we go so jeff with that let's go ahead and jump into this episode and watch it if you guys are joining us for the very first time here's how this works jeff and i are going to go watch this episode right now we're going to watch it right now and by go means we're actually going gonna stay right here and live here on the video.
We are going to watch this episode.
If you're watching this on YouTube, you're gonna get the cut up reaction video.

[1:46] If you wanna see the full version of it, you head over to patrion.com slash.

[1:51] Bye nerds and you guys can check out everything over there.
And if you're listening on a podcast app, you're about to gate into the future.
You'll join us on the other side where I will share my first time reactions.
Brent will share any of the sci-fi messages that he may or may not, but I think may have found in this one Brent let's jump in to learning curve.

[2:14] Music.

[2:31] All right jeff so you have just watched learning curve for the very first time take us through it bud what'd you think you know first i didn't really care for this episode very much like for quite a while i was like yeah it's interesting it's kind of you know whatever i i thought it was an interesting take on a society right so we they learn by planting nanites and then they spread those nanites around they put the kids in like basically a retirement home when they're done And it's just like this totally unemotional, very efficient society, which to me, frankly, sounded great.

[3:06] So what you're telling me is like, I'm just going to learn all this stuff and we're just going to be efficient and get things done all the time.
Yeah, that's, that sounds fun to me, but they didn't know much about fun, uh, in, in this and until it came around this, I feel like this episode tried to be a couple of different things at the same time and did a really good job at being one of those things.
What I wanted it to do better at, but it introduced, is a theme that we've run into a couple times in Stargate now, in that this group, the Orban, the Orban, Orban, Orban, wow, how many different ways can I say that?
The Orban have this society, this culture that works for them.
Like they're making rapid technological advancements, they're spreading knowledge around, around, it works really well for them.
No one is on that planet being like, this isn't cool.
This doesn't work for us. But as soon as SG one interacts with them, they don't like the way things are.
And so I'm going to take my values, my ethics and judge you based on those.

[4:17] And there was literally a scene where uh dude from the planet was like let me help you understand and jack's like i don't want to understand you just straight shut him down and we've seen this happen quite a bit i i would i hope that we get some more exploration of this you know because to me it's the it's the anti it it's the anti message of star trek but it is the theme of star trek especially the original series yeah I think Jack in this episode was channeling captain Kirk through everything I'm gonna come and I'm going to shut your computer down and force you know a new a new cultural norm on you and then and then leave basically but also he was captain Kirk in that some kids showed up and he was all about helping those kids out I think about Mary the TOS episode Mary's like you You, last week and even this week, have talked about this is an episode that could fit anywhere in Star Trek.
Absolutely. 100%. But it belongs in the original series.
This story belongs with Captain Kirk. If Picard was in this, it'd be a very different take.
It would still work, right? But just be different. I made a note partway through on this that Jack...

[5:35] Jack makes this episode his once we get past this my culture or no culture thing and we just see the compassion that he has for kids you know this incredible scene where they go to the they go to the school that looks like an institution like that's horrible but the kids come running out they're excited to see him the one like one student paints him is the thing that you know know, that she loves or that, you know, and it's like, he takes time out of his life to go be a part of these kids' lives.
He literally, this dude can literally walk up off the street, onto the playground and people don't bat an eye at it, they're excited that he's there.
And the teacher and the, the dude could be like, Hey, can you take another student for a class or two?
And like, yeah, sure. You could not do that. Not, not today in any school.

[6:29] Like have you been background checked have we filled out an information do you have a their vaccine records like let's make yeah has this kid gone through registration are they properly placed do we have their records from their other schools yeah so at the end this episode really hit me in a really positive way i think it just and it's i mean it had to do this right i had to come in as a sci-fi episode you know here we are on a different planet the aztecs you know know kind of a cool lift from them but to your point a bunch of very very white european looking aztecs that uh took over this planet well that'd be post spanish conquest maybe right yeah like very like multi multi-generational post where they came around but it's a fantastic sci-fi concept but they had like that wasn't the important part of the episode you know like it was interesting interesting and kind of cool.
It gave me matrix vibes, you know, of like, we're going to plug this thing in and you're just going to, going to know it, which God, that'd be, that'd be awesome.

[7:31] But this was really an episode about like caring for people that are more vulnerable than you people who can't really speak for themselves and jack did an incredible job really on the compassion side more than anything i still think that his intent was to stop her from going back and having the ovarian happen and have all the nanites sucked out of her head that was his intent What he ended up doing was teaching her about fun so that when she went and spread the nanites, all of a sudden they learned about fun.
Amazing ending, totally unintended. Like even Jack was like, oh, that's what she learned. Wow.

[8:10] Good thing it worked out like that. You know, this could have gone a very, very different way.
Well, and if I may add to that, when he got there and he saw her post ovarian, he saw a few things.
But one was maybe it's not as bad now she's not a vegetable he was being very over the top with that she certainly was not the same kid she didn't she didn't have the same uh knowledge the same you know all those things that make you you like what is it that makes you you your personality that all been stripped away from her except for the little girl that was having fun drawing yeah which we saw, multiple times throughout the episode even when she's there with the piece of paper in sam's lab and the ruler and the protractor and everything.

[9:01] It was very clinical at that time but she kind of was digging it you could kind of get catch the vibe and then later when we saw her in the art class and stuff and now we see her out there she's just having she's holding the crayon the wrong way and everything just going at it smiling enjoying it you know it's like that's marin you know and his answer i loved his answer what'd he say yeah he's like gonna have to get to know you all over again have to get to know each other all over again let's do it and it was okay like would have been better if she'd still still been there but but let me ask this though because because it is it is kind of one of the things they bring up a couple times the thing that makes you you was that her because i feel like we saw toman and we saw uh marin like in in detail and i mean they had different subjects toman was about defense and you know military stuff and she was about the reactors but outside of the subject they were kind of the same person right they didn't have a personality they were just kind of they're very android you know very sung in android that's that's a fair point and how they spoke and everything so is who she was that little girl who liked drawing and stuff and they actually removed the thing that was stopping her from being her that's what i'm saying and that's what i'm saying like outside of that being the same thing you can still see that in between like jack literally brought that out in her and now you just see it on court yeah that because like i think when he saw I saw that, like, there's Marin.

[10:29] That's the Marin I know is this girl who's just loves drawing.

[10:32] So that begs an even bigger question. Like let's, let's dive in.
We would have to dive into this, but just kind of a thought what's happening.
What has happened in our personal lives? What are our nanites?
What are the things that we have in us that are actually stopping us from being the, who we really are?

[10:50] You know and what's the show what's the whatever that we are programming that we have and who are we really in this culture bills that's what it is stopping all of that is bills that's for sure man yeah that's a whole other adult's life bills i just think like with marin she was brilliant she was able to you know help sam build this amazing reactor but that's not who she was because she was she was a sloppy expressive artist who.

[11:23] Got uncorked when they finally took the nanites out which was my daughter as a negative thing either way right yeah you know my daughter she was my daughter sloppy artist that's her very express here i'm gonna put it all out there but very loving and playful and smiley and everything we saw in that last two minutes with her absolutely so yeah this one came around really well for me really strong and i think think even just talking about it more it it really posed some big questions and some things to think about which I'm interested in we haven't talked about this on the audio podcast part but you actually watched this episode earlier today I did preparing yourself because you knew there was a lot of stuff in it so Brett you've had some time to prep I want to hear about the sci-fi messages you found in this one yeah this is this is literally the first time Jeff since we've started the show where i was like i've got to actually watch this beforehand because i know there's stuff there and i need to formulate some thoughts and uh you basically read a lot of my notes that i already have written down well look at that it's almost like it was part of the episode right but i'm going to kind of go through it i said earlier in this episode maybe i think before we hit record this is an episode that star trek could have done in any season of any of its series and it would have fit right in no matter where you placed it in the franchise i agree with you its best fit is original series, possibly strange new worlds, but it really could have gone in, in any of them.

[12:49] Sometimes an episode Jeff is so heavy laden with messages.
It's, it's kind of hard to speak to it for a while. Like you just got to let it sit with you.
And unless you're really, really intentional, you never really wrestle with what it's saying. It just, it's so So good.
It's so overt, but it's so subtle at the same time. You're not really sure what to do with it. Like it's there.
Just how do I verbalize it? And that's the way I find myself with this kind of an episode is, is I see it.
I can, I can see that message, but, but how do I bring it into words that just doesn't make it sound like you're going in circles all the time.
Daniel says it right at the very top of the episode. This is just kind of how they do things.
But this is also one One of those typical sci-fi, particularly Star Trek shows.

[13:40] Where how much do we honor and respect another culture even when it goes against our fundamental beliefs of humanity fundamental beliefs like don't hurt the children right yeah the little things looking at you jms don't hurt the children here's the difference though jeff this is where i think i really like this episode i think for the first time we actually have a real answer for what do you do when you encounter another culture that is diametrically opposed to yours and seems awful but it's their culture and it's their way of doing things if this was a tng episode maybe even strange new worlds the answer would basically i think be go in talk them to death reason with them and maybe try to get them to change their system right like that's how that would work if it was tos or even deep space nine they just say f it and we're gonna go do whatever i want and i'm gonna violate their culture i'm gonna violate their rights of sovereignty and then i'm gonna leave i like what you said that's literally whatever they're gonna leave and just let you figure it out on your own yeah good luck good luck we're gonna tear it down and take off if it was voyager january would have just full-on kidnapped all the children and taken them home with her that's how that one would have gone right but here we got an actual answer of how do you deal with it?
Because in the end, Marin and Toman and Solon and all of the other children are left on her bond. They're there.

[15:07] To continue with the way their culture works they didn't necessarily change how their culture operates right now jack ultimately allowed the orban to take her and do what they do but what did he do first he showed her another way of living and another way of looking at things, jack i may add the one who wasn't smart the one who wasn't smart took her and showed her how to to be a kid earth style, which you and I would look at and definitively say, yeah, that's better.
Right. That's the way to do it the way you should be as a kid. Right.
But again, we go to saying should be, that's our value system. That's our culture.
I remember when I lived in South Korea, the way that they do things in South Korea, I definitively remember going, I do not want my kids growing up like this. Okay.
I'm in the middle of it. I see how they're doing it.
I see how they're operating it and i said that is not a good way that's not how i want my kids to be raised.

[16:06] I'm totally judging their culture i'm totally judging their deal based on my western american ideals just like they would do if they were in the united states absolutely because there's a reason they do things the way that they do there's a reason that why things there's a reason why all All the cool stuff's being made over there right now. Right.
Yeah. I mean, like you, Jeff, I don't think for an instant that Jack intended for what happened to be what happened.
I don't think he intended to change all of our Banyan culture.
I don't think he intended to go back and have everybody start drawing and playing hopscotch and playing with balls or, or whatever.
Right. I don't think he had some master plan to infect the entire group with fun as if he's some some weird Borg bomb that he's sending back to the collective.

[16:57] He was solely concerned about the one he kind of, which is kind of, kind of messed up.
He didn't care about the rest of them he was concerned about marin yeah that is that is kind of weird and it didn't care about anybody else he was concerned about toman he he to the like literally was like at one point all but saying i don't care about this kid i want toman i don't know him i want the one that i know he was kind of doing the starfish thing have you ever heard that story uh man goes out to a beach there's thousands upon thousands starfish washed up on the beach knowing that they're gonna that they're gonna die as the sun comes out he goes out and he starts chucking starfish back in and somebody else comes by and he's like hey what are you doing he's like well i gotta save the starfish man if they don't get back in the water and he looks and says why are you even bothering there's so many you're not even gonna make a dent in it and he picks up the starfish one starfish he goes well it makes a difference to this one and he threw it back in picked up another makes a difference to this one threw that one back that's a great story you know know what I mean? Like he was, he was star fishing Marin.
Like I may not be able to change them all, but I can change this one.
I can, I can help this one.
That was his intent. What's interesting though, is it's kind of the way the universe tends to conspire with itself and.
I think ultimately the universe does tend to work things out for the betterment of all.

[18:18] His action had what i will say is the very unintended consequence i think you would say that as well yeah and that the people learned a different way of being he was just trying to do it for the one and it wound up happening for everyone now here's what's interesting the more i thought about this those people once they received her little nanite thing they could have chosen to reject it yeah they could have chosen to reject the fun they could have chosen.

[18:46] To not embrace it but they didn't they saw it they went well that's a new experience we've never had, there's an ignorance there we've never had we didn't i had no idea that this was even possible they didn't even know the word fun exactly they didn't know how to draw they didn't know how to play this was not even in their vocabulary but when they did it and they got into there and And they're like, yeah, let's do wait.
What do you mean? There's a different way that we can care for the past Uron kids.
We're going to treat them very well. Well, but what does well mean to you versus these other people? Well, why don't you just teach them the way that old people get to?
I don't even know what you're talking about. What do you mean?
They weren't really communicating on those levels, right?
But what I think that proves though, is the sheer fact they didn't reject it shows that the Orbanians were not bad people.
They're not evil people because if they were, they would have just said, Nope, we're going to completely keep all of that out.
This is what we do and how we do it. They just had a different way of doing things.
They had a different way of looking at societal roles, societal responsibilities, and they didn't know what they didn't know. They were ignorant.
And in truth, they were able to all come around.

[19:55] Here's the great thing. Because of their system and because of the way it worked, they were all able to partake of this because of the system.
If the system wasn't the way it was, he would, they would not, this would not have gone through their entire society.
Like it was, it was amazing. When did this happen? Last night.
Like we we started this last night and it's just like it's infectious everywhere because of exactly that their system spread it did you see do you see how happy he looked how excited he was to share like yeah he was like a kid you know just what he was doing like a kid yeah like a kid so all of that to say what is the message how do we boil this down because like i said i started this off by saying they did something here that star trek never does and that's provide the actual answer so often we've talked about how they present a problem but then they don't really discuss it a lot of times star trek presents a problem discusses and lets you figure out the answer and if you don't stop to think about what is the answer and what side this isn't a this isn't a two-vic situation where you know which side of the issue you're going to be on this is kind of like i sort of see it from both sides and well i don't really know what the best way to do that is here's how i think we boil this one down this is what i get out of this you can't change change people.
They have to do it for themselves.

[21:13] Jack and Daniel and Teal were not going to change the Albanians.
They had to pick it for themselves.
Now they needed the knowledge. They needed to be exposed to more ways of thinking.
All you can really do is give them that knowledge.
You can give them that experience, not necessarily by telling them about it, but by letting them actually experience it.
Let them get a different way of looking at life.
Let them make their own decision even if you still find it revolting hey by the way i told you that thing about me going over to korea yeah after living there for three years being in the system that they're in you know what i eventually realized it's not that bad yeah, It's not that awful. There are still some things I'd like to do different, but there's actually some really good things that are in there too, that need to be in there too.
And here's how we grow. Here's how we change is by being able to look at things in a different way.
Without judging what is so wrong with that culture over there, to be able to go in and be like, okay, well, why do they do it this way?
What are the benefits of that?
What are the pieces that I want to take? What are the pieces I want to have?
What are the ways I'm going to be changed by this culture?
Sometimes it's more important, Jeff, for us to be allow another culture to change us than it is for us to go change all the other cultures out there. Yeah, definitely.

[22:34] And I think that's really the answer that this gives. Jeff, this is a seven Chevron episode for me up and down. No question.
It was written. It was intentional.
It was thoroughly discussed. it gave you an answer seven chevron now chevrons and rankings are two very different things very true chevrons are all about the message the rankings all about how much you enjoyed this episode jeff you my friend get to take this and place this and our 100 completely accurate definitive season three ranking of stargate sg1 our current top four i'm gonna guess this is going and then the top five.
It's a strong guess. But our current top four are Fair Game, Into the Fire, Seth, and then followed by Legacy, which I cannot believe is that low.
But, Jeff, where do you place learning curve just based on your sheer how much did you like this episode message notwithstanding?
So you brought up a very important point of order on this one that I do want to address, and that was –.

[23:39] Seth and legacy you're a smart man Jeff I'm swapping those out so legacy is in number three and Seth is in number four I had some smart man some time to think about it and to your point right like uh I'm not stuck in my ways I can listen and I can allow other cultures and experiences to influence and change me so there you go case in point and this one I uh I talked on a journey on this one like at first I wasn't really into it but then it really grabbed me this one grabbed me hard like this was a middle I'm gonna link the ranking and the rating on this one because what really struck me when you gave it the seven chevrons was my reaction was the message like I came out with the message that's how not only how strong it was but how well it was done this brent is our new number two episode of the season i don't i don't disagree i agree with you hey uh one thing that i do want to note uh you've mentioned it in this show you mentioned it a few times let's just say it for what it is jack has an incredible soft spot for kids, he really does you know i mean look at what happened with cassie look at what happened with that ritu kid you know i know a few other kid things that come up hey spoiler alert there's to be at least a handful more over the next eight seasons that we still go through.

[25:02] Jack's definitely got a soft spot for kids you know now whether that's a result of what happened with his son or that's who he is as a person and, partly why his son affected him so much like obviously there's a son but still bigger than that like jack's a jack's just a good dude man i gotta think that he was a great dad right like he was a really good dad and losing his son especially the way he lost his son was you know obviously in the in the film you know that was that changed him and darkened him quite a bit but as he's He's, you know, his time does its thing, and he's doing his stuff.

[25:39] I feel like he decided that he's a good dad or, you know, a good thing.
Not only is he was, but now he also believes that he is.
I don't know that he didn't before, but it shows. He's like, yeah, this is a thing I can do. I got this.
It was really cool seeing him operate like that.
Also, we came to know that there is such a thing as a NACWDA reactor or NACWDA generator.
Kind of a big deal. uh jeff what was your prediction for this episode a piece of new tech that they're gonna have to figure out and that was that was sam's whole storyline figuring out this new tech oh there you go jeff i like it buddy i like it you get high level enough you're gonna hit something right i like it buddy i like it i like it uh just to to update we had no additions to our for crying out louds and deeds or daniel death's counseling countings that we are doing although there's a a perfect opportunity for an indeed.
Oh my gosh. There's so many, so many.
So Jeff, I guess with that, um, we're gonna call this a great episode of television, good 45 minutes could have worked anywhere, uh, good stuff.
I'm glad that this was in Stargate and not Star Trek. I agree.
Cuz it would have been different in Star Trek and I wouldn't, I don't think I would have appreciated it as much.
So with that, Jeff, it's time to move on to our next episode.
Would you like to know we're watching next time here on Stargate SG one for the first time.

[27:01] Yeah i suppose so we are watching an episode titled point of view point of view point of view get high level jeff give us a point of view on point of view this is going to be an episode from the system lord's perspective we're going to see things happening from a different point of view and the cool thing in that like i'm ex i'll be excited for is just getting that view into the system lord gold culture that we'll get a little bit of but um there'll be sg1 over here on the decide doing a thing that'll intersect enough to make it the episode so this is a episode we'll see this from the system lord point of view all right well you're a good guesser jeff sure you're a good guesser well that's going to do it for us right here on stargate sg1 for the first time that's going to do it for us here with learning curve thank you guys out there so much for joining us hey listen don't forget wherever you are catching this show whether you're on audible Apple, Apple podcast, Spotify.

[27:56] YouTube, Spotify, video, Patreon, whatever else we're on out there.
I don't even know what all it's all out there, wherever you are, please leave us a rating and a review, a check Mark stars, whatever it is they allow you to do.
Please make sure you do that because what that does is that lets other people know that you are enjoying the show and they would would probably enjoy it too, which helps more people find the show.
Uh, also please be sure to share the show with somebody that you know, who loves Stargate or maybe somebody like Jeff over there needs to get into the gate for the first time.
So with that, until next time, folks, we will see yes, Jeff.
What's up? I love, I love making this show with you. I'm so glad that you pulled me into Stargate.
This is great. So I made something for you.
Oh, it's you. Indeed.

[28:50] Music.