Point of View

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Point of View - Season 3, Episode 6

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Transcript

SG1_306 Point of View

[0:00] Music.

[0:14] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time. Still not a Star Trek podcast.
My name is Jeff Akin and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time.
And I'm Brent Allen and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time.
But for the very first time, I am looking for those Stargate messages.
What is it Stargate is trying to teach us? Is it giving us hope that things are going to be better in the future?
Is it holding up a mirror to society? Or is it just teaching us how we can be better human beings to one another?
Right this week, we're watching the sixth episode, the third season, Point of View.
Last week, I predicted that this is going to be an episode where we see everything happen from the point of view of the Gould.
So we'll get some insight into their culture and how they work.
Over here on the side, SG1 will be doing some SG1 thing, but we'll be on the Gould's point of view for the whole thing.
I'm excited to see if that's what it is. That'd be awesome if that's what it is.
But why don't you tell us some details about point of view? Well, Jeff, you are a good guesser. Oh, sure. Yeah.
Today's episode is the sixth episode of season three point of view.
Original air date, July 30th, 1999.
Written by show creators, John Glasner and Brad Wright.
Directed by Peter Deloes. Jeff, this is the creme de la creme.
This is the A-team of Stargate.

[1:34] Reminder, Peter Deloes likes to put himself in his shows with cameos, very alfred hitchcock-esque uh or what's that dude's name in night shamalan shyamalan.

[1:46] Anyway so we'll be on the lookout for him i'll try to point him out if i see him for you uh but with that jeff it's time to get into this episode buddy like right now like right now i love it let's do it like right now all right hey listen if you guys are joining us for the very first time first of all welcome you're awesome you're amazing we love that you're here the way this works is Jeff and I are going to go watch this episode like now, right now, we're going to watch it together. If you're hanging out with us on YouTube, stick around.
You're going to catch the reaction.
We'll do the reaction. We're going to record ourselves watching it and they'll do, do the whole reaction thing.
If you want to see the full unedited version of that though, head over to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash.
Bye nerds. If you're listening to this on a podcasting app, you're about to gate into the future where you're going to hear Brent and myself do the podcast thing, right?
Where I share my first time reactions. Brent shares the sci-fi messages, and you get to hear all of our analysis about this thing.
So Brent, let's do it. Let's start Point of View. Chevron 7 locked.

[2:43] Music.

[3:00] All right, Jeff, we've just watched this episode for the very first time.
Talk to us about it. What is your point of view on point of view?
I was really into this episode, really into it where we had like an alternate universe, alt Poffice and alternate tilk had goatees that makes this a mirror universe episode and I was in it. It was fun.
It was interesting. And then it ended and Brent the way it ended just kind of totally took me out of this whole thing.
And that you specifically are talking about the kiss as we witnessed, or those of us who watched the video part with you witnessed.

[3:35] The kiss, the kiss, right? You were with it up until the kiss.
Yeah. I am telling you right now, you have just turned 90% of the Stargate fans against you. What?
How dare you? How dare you say anything against a rare beloved Jack and Sam moment where they actually get to show some affection towards each other.
It was wildly inappropriate.
Like that was not okay. So in the alternate, I'm going into it.
I'm going into that. They're both consenting adults. Why?

[4:09] Because they were consenting to something that they weren't consenting to the same things.
Jack was consenting, I believe, to try to comfort this person who just did amazing, work, was very brave and lost her husband. Like he was trying to show compassion.
Alt Sam wanted her husband back and that's not okay.
I think that Jack choosing to express his compassion through a kiss was taking advantage of a, a grieving woman.
Like she's three days, alt Jack died three days ago. She watched him die.
She's broken. The first thing she does when she has a moment of privacy is take out a little, you know, what, three by five, whatever, five by seven, I don't even know how you measure pictures, but the old school, you know, picture thing, you get developed of their family. They had a kid together.
There's Jack and Sam and they're so happy and she is so busted up inside.
She's crying the whole time. She's in there. Jack knows this.

[5:09] He walks in on her and talks to her as she's crying. They talk about it.
They have a moment and it was the moment they had was beautiful, right? He was totally appropriate.
We're like, he's like, okay, so this is how things were. I get it.
All right, fine. And then he ran into prime Sam and he's like, yeah, don't she's, she's good.

[5:27] Also, how are you? Like, it was just awesome. He was taking care of everybody.
But that moment when he kissed her, I think he was completely taking advantage of her. I completely disagree.
How? How I don't, I completely disagree. I, the way I see the way I saw that, the way I interpreted that is Jeff.
How do you feel about Jane Wayne Chakotay?
That they're great coworkers and friends, and that's all they should ever be.
There's no ship there. There's no, there's no romance.
Relationship. Sometimes you disappoint me, Jeff. Did you miss the entirety of the episode? Reve, re resolutions.
And then any time that they were in a, in a conference and a conversation privately together past that point. And everyone reads in the tension that's not actually there. It is actually there.
How did you feel about Picard and Crusher?
Yeah, that was honestly, I don't like it.
I liked it before when it was teased and there was tension around it.
But then in Picard where they made it pay off, it's like, oh, no, no.
Did they make it pay off in Picard? Maybe what we're learning about Jeff is that he's not, I'm not into relationships on TV.

[6:35] Jeff, anyone who's been around Babylon five for the first time for any amount of time since like season one of Babylon five.
Ought to be familiar with that particular concept by now that's true it's true that's that's not a dig at you that's just that's how i see it yes you don't need it doesn't have to be a romantic relationship between a man and a woman for them to like have a connection and i think that boiling it down to that as tv still does just completely neuters the idea of like professional relationships platonic relationships it artificially creates sexual tension where there isn't any in real life for people because they feel like there should be some when i can just be cool with someone who's another gender than i am it can be fine or the same gender as me like i can just be cool with people i'm up with jeff jeff buddy let me ask you jeff let me ask a question here's a question for you in high school i'm not talking about adult jeff i'm talking about high school jeff that's going back a little bit all right were you a geek oh yeah yeah well no i was such a geek that i was a i was a metal head and a geek you were a metal head you were cool you were whatever, all right you were in band playing drums you cannot be a geek playing drums unless you're playing kettle drums and even then that's still pretty badass it's like that's like still like you're cool you're lower into cool but you're still there but you're still cool okay jeff.

[8:02] You got to understand for the guys writing these episodes, they got friend zoned so much that they're writing out their friends, like they're writing out their unrequited, you know, interest into these characters.
Just because the guys who played clarinet and marching band are writing this doesn't make it okay to do.
Like, I don't know. I just, maybe I'm too far on this thing, but I don't think so. So I feel really strongly about this.
I think that forcing romantic relationships in professional environments like this just sets unrealistic expectations for everybody.
It's this, this isn't me being like, oh, taking advantage of women or anything or misogynistic, whatever.
I just think it sets up an unrealistic expectation between people.
I would, I can agree that it, it certainly reinforces this idea that, sexual intention does exist or can exist in places where it really ought not or rather i take that back that just being friends or just being co-workers just like keeping everything really on that professional level just doesn't happen between between your leads between the two leading people in your story right now like and for everybody they're their leading person in their story plus whomever that other person is so i would agree with that but in this particular case.

[9:27] This to me was almost, this was like Sam, I'm sorry, Samantha had a chance to now say goodbye, and have, you know, kiss her husband goodbye and all of that stuff and, and have a chance for that grieving process for a little bit of extra closure that she didn't get with the other guy. And Jack helped provide that.
Also, I do think that there was a bit of looking at it on the the other side, because I will tell you this right now. And Jeff, I.

[9:57] Stargate has the same rule that Voyager thankfully had that TNG thankfully had.
You cannot have a relationship between a commanding officer and a, and a subordinate fraternization, right?
It is, it is a, it is a, it is a taboo that only ever gets toyed with in these kinds of settings.
Yeah. They really walk that line, uh, pretty good.
So to be able to allow Jack to acknowledge that there may or may not be some feelings there and to explore that for 10 seconds, also while helping other alternate Sam grieve a little bit and have her last goodbye.
Like, I don't, it works for me. It may not work for Jeff, but we have now officially spent like eight minutes talking about a 10 second part of the episode.
You know what though? But this is the thing. And I don't mean this in a detrimental way to the episode this is kind of the thing of the episode right like i feel like like this was a cool sci-fi idea it let us see you know the goatee on alt pofus and see general hammond get zach gunned and some cool things we got to see kowalski like i love kowalski it's super cool yeah also i think the point of this episode the point was to entertain right this is this is what it is here's is a cool sci-fi story, but I think that the underlying sort of theme is that.

[11:22] The major Sam who we know prime Sam had an opportunity to see a version of herself as she had made different life choices.

[11:29] Also, we got to explore the unexplored romantic tension between them with, with like this surrogate, you know, so it's like the same person, make her different.
And then we can have these little hints in these things that there's this tension and people, people like that.
So I, we've spent a lot, a lot of time on it, but I think that's the point of the episode.
I, you know what, if I would have, I would have liked this episode better.
Better, I think had it actually explored prime Sam and this is where I think Michael pillars words are so, uh, uh, prescient and they didn't follow it in this episode of stargate is the shows.
The episodes have to be about our main characters have to be about our bridge crew, not those out there, this show was about alternate Sam and exploring her feelings and what's going on with her and seeing this piece through that. We barely saw prime Sam.

[12:28] Exactly. And when we did for the most part, she was arguing with alt Sam until the moment they were working on the generator and like everything clicked, which is cool. I would, I would, I would agree.
I'm sorry. This could have been an episode. I would have liked this episode better.
I think had it been prime Sam exploring aspects of her personality that she didn't know that she had through alt Sam, they should have been a lot more prime and alt Sam throughout throughout the course of this episode, really nailing that in, um, or even, I mean, see, it's not even, I just, like, I like what you said, she's exploring other aspects of herself that can't be explored in her normal situation.
Yeah. I think, you know, early on in the episode, the Dr.
Sam, Dr. Carter said, you know, oh my gosh, can't imagine joining the military and major Carter said, I can't imagine not, which tells me Jacob is a very different different person in this alternate universe right so oh good call yeah so what's that and and how did that familial relation so to your point like that would have been a cool story yeah I will look at it a little like a little bit differently and I think that on surface this was about alt Sam but I almost think and again I'm going back to the kiss but I think that that made this about Jack.

[13:47] When when jack we got we got awesome jack through most of this episode you know like listening to people do the tech the techno babble stuff and him doing his awesome like god come on you know whatever but when he goes into comfort alt sam or just to check in on her and let her know that they get to stay we saw some stuff in him we hadn't ever seen before we saw him try to have some empathy right and like when he realized like oh i just like she's really upset i gotta be here here for her and create some space.
And then he saw the picture and we got to kind of explore, like he wasn't, he was confused by it, but he wasn't opposed to it.

[14:23] And we kind of saw him his relationship with alt sam changed at that moment he became protective of her in a way defended her and and so i think what it what it showed you know we've seen and explored jack as a a dad as someone who's awesome around kids i think this was an opportunity for us not as deep as we maybe should have but gave us an opportunity to see jack as a romantic partner partner or as, uh, an intimate partner, you know, someone who cares about someone, I, again, I think that him doing that kiss was inappropriate with it, but it lines up with that story.
Like if, if that's the story of this, of course he kissed her because that's him expressing this feeling that he never can and her trying to get closure with the whole thing.
Although in the closure piece, like, I don't know, this might be a stupid example, but Like, let's say that my, my wife dies and I'm broken up about it and I didn't get to say goodbye or have closure.
So I go have a real doll made of her and like I make out with that so I can get some clothes. That's weird, right? Yeah.
What's different about this? It's not Jack, her Jack.

[15:36] It's just some dude who's biologically the same person, but isn't the same person.
I'm gonna get off that that hook that whole thing because i'll go on and on i you know i had a couple other notes on this one but nothing nothing of consequence there was one piece that uh was weird general hammond prime hammond had like this real aversion to the idea of these alt people alt kowalski and alt sam bieran they never explored that it was just weird didn't you think that they were going to turn out to be bad yeah and he had like a feeling like you know something and he's like i don't know something's fishy and then they do a thing but then nothing ever came of that it was it was a little weird we got the asgard who showed up and we talked about during the episode they are the deus ex machina they showed up the gold who inhabited earth were apparently all at s sga and they left but yeah i've got pretty mixed feelings on this one i think while you're talking about your next piece i'm gonna i'm gonna chew on this a little bit and let's talk about that next piece brent did you find any sci-fi messages in this one chew quickly jeff because yeah i don't I don't have a whole lot in this one, man.
I really don't. I, I, I feel like I could pull certain things from it.
Things that stand out to me. Kowalski walks into a room and flips out the teal kiss sitting there. And it's like, well, what do you do?
Do you have like, dude, this is not your spot, not your time, not your place. I could pull, I could, I could pull that out.
You say you use that'd be solved with a briefing.
Hey, heads up. This might freak you out.

[17:06] Let's be aware you know that person you said led the attack on the mountain yeah he's in there and he's cool yeah yeah but he didn't lead an attack on our mountain in fact he's helped defend it a few times so you know jack being a really good commander and showing compassion for her while also showing compassion for his own sam you know i mean maybe you go there with that i there just just wasn't there this was this was uh hey let's have an episode let's pull that episode back out if this if if this happened to be the same people that we saw.

[17:40] From the last mirror episode from there and we.

[17:43] Were catching up with their story maybe but.

[17:46] This was just it was somebody else altogether that we sent back salmon said hammond said we're gonna bust up this mirror with at the end we're not gonna be able to do this anymore uh we went we freed we we killed apophis again and and freed some more people like yeah like i just i don't know jeff i don't have much and i feel like i'm i'm wimping out on this one but i there's just not much in this one for me i just don't see it there i'm with you if you got anything you want to stump for it go for it but i'm giving this one zero chevrons i think it's totally fair i there were a couple like you said a couple moments like oh maybe nope nope hey this nope they didn't didn't go there at all no this was this was a sci-fi episode yeah episode of the week decent yeah decent episode yeah i mean yeah decent this is an episode that if i'm if i'm doing laundry and i'm flipping through the channels and i come across this episode but oh oh yeah it's this episode i'm going to keep channel surfing and seeing what else is out there and if nothing else is on i would come back to this episode that's fair that's pretty fair yeah that's brent why don't you ask me what i think about it i'm tired jeff what'd you think about it have you chewed are you done on the cud i am i am done chewing all right what you got so you rated it zero chevrons oh that's right you get to rank it oh my god yeah i was trying to feed you trying to feed you there let's let's do the format of the show let's go hey jeff so i get to rate it.

[19:15] By you know declaring zero chevrons how you however my friend you get to rank it uh based really much on just how much did you like the episode our current top five because that's all we have so far current top five of season three are 100 completely accurate and completely definitive ranking of season three stargate sg1 includes number one fair game number two learning curve number three into the fire four legacy five seth jeff where does this episode point of view go When I ranked Legacy, or Learning Curve last week, or no, it was Legacy two weeks ago when I ranked that, I mentioned that putting it in the number four position wasn't a reflection on it as a bad episode.
It was a reflection on the quality of season three so far, and that's going to be how I rank this one. one, this one is going to be in the top five at number five, just above Seth.

[20:12] Again, not a bad episode. I'm with you. I'm not gonna choose to watch this one ever, but I'm not gonna choose not to, you know, I'm not gonna skip out of it.
Still step up from Seth, which again, not a, not a bad episode.
Just another one. I'm not necessarily gonna watch.

[20:28] You know, Jeff, I'm at a spot with Stargate where I've watched it so many many times i very rarely ever do a watch through any more of the show i pick and choose which episodes i want to watch and just hit those i think what you just said like i'm never going to choose this episode but i'm never not going to choose this episode i don't ever choose this episode like i just gloss over it because i'm looking at the other episodes like that's it okay so but you're right it's not i feel like i'm really crapping all over this episode it's not not bad it's just there are others that are better a lot better and we've got some of them coming up here in the next few weeks so oh cool that's exciting well over the rest of the season actually this is a great season the season overall so far this has been fantastic yeah well that being said jeff we are going to officially be done with point of view would you like to know we're watching next i guess yeah a little nervous jeff yeah oh it's time for one of our favorite favorite type of episodes it's one of those that every sci-fi show does an iteration of got a couple of those and i've got them all wrong title of this one is dead man switch jeff you want to give us an idea of what dead man switch might be about what immediately comes to mind for me and here's some recency bias in action is the is it the uh season two babylon five episode convictions that was a season two episode yeah sure why not yeah sure where you know dude had had the little, I'm going to blow up the station thing.

[21:54] And it was his little dead man switch. So this is going to be like a hostage sort of situation.

[21:59] Um, I'm going to say that the SG one crew will get, they'll be taken hostage.

[22:06] And, um, you know, we, we, there's an easy way out, but we can't take it.
Cause dude's got a dead man switch and we'll all get blowed up.
Uh i believe that was a season three episode jeff it might have been yeah i just i don't know that's so bad i'm the one who was i should remember all those things you are the one you are the one who knows it is a season three because it was london jacar in an elevator, there you go uh it's time to update our tracking sheet jeff we did get one for crying out loud in today's episode that was it was a unique for crying out loud it was but we've decided we're gonna count it that brings our total up to 17 for crying out loud so far wow wow yeah that seems like a lot but when you realize we've already had like 50 episodes and not not quite half not quite not quite but still enough to be like they say that line a lot totally a thing all right jeff uh, i guess with all that that's gonna put a bow on our episode here today so thank you guys so much for joining us please join us next time here on stargate sg1 for the first time still not a star Trek podcast.
Hey, don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you are, wherever you happen to get your podcast, leave us a rating, a review.
Please share this podcast with someone you know that loves Stargate or needs to get in the gate, just like my buddy Jeff right over there.
So until next time, guys, thank you guys so much. We will get out of here. Hey Brent. Well, yeah.

[23:26] Jeff, what's up? You know those cool apps that they have nowadays where you can learn a language in like three weeks?
Duolingo. Got it. That's one of them. Yeah. And Babbel and a bunch of others.
It's a whole, I made my own. I just made one. Oh, did you I'm really excited about it.
I haven't named it yet I'm thinking something something Gould something something but it's an app where literally you can learn how to speak Gould in four seconds, really Cree creature far.
That's it. That's the lesson indeed.

[23:57] Music.