Jolinar's Memories and The Devil You Know

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Jolinar's Memories and The Devil You Know - Season 3, Episodes 12 and 13

Visit https://www.babylon5first.com/ for more!

This show is produced in association with the Akin Collective, Mulberry Entertainment, and Framed Games. Find out how you can support the show and get great bonus content like access to notes, a Discord server, unedited reaction videos, and more: https://www.patreon.com/babylon5first

Special Thanks to all who support our show through Patreon, including:
Executive Producers:
Andrew
Andrew Black
Anthony Powell
Becky Sparks
Calinicus
Chris Langston
ClubPro70
Colin 3of5
Commodore Trev
DAG
Demi-DW
Duane Brown
Fabio Kasecker
FellKnight
Frankie
Gregory Christ
Ian Maurer
Jack Kitchen
James O'Keefe
Jeffrey Hayes
Joel Townsend
Joey Pomeroy
kat
Katerina Kalinevich
Kenny A Karyadi
Martin Svendsen
Matt Ion
Mattie Garcia
Mike Hagon
Mr Krosis
Neil Moore
Nia is framed
NJRetiredLEO
Peter Schuller
Rob Bent
Ron H
Snatcher42
Starfury 5470
Stuart Hepworth
Suzanne Egg
Terrafan
The_Space_Pope
Thomas Monk
Timo Hakala
TrekkieTreyTheTrekker
Todd "Canuck" Schmuck

Producers:
David Blau
Guy Kovel
John Koniges

Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/BabylonFirst
Visit https://www.patreon.com/byenerds to join the Patreon for full, unedited videos and an incredible community.

Transcript

SG1_312 313 Jolinar and Devil

Transcript

[0:00]

Music.

[0:15]

Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time. Still not a Star Trek podcast.

My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time.

And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time.

But for the first time, I am looking for what Stargate is trying to teach us. Those sci-fi messages.

You know, those lessons that hold up a mirror to society. Give us hope things

can be better in the future, or just plain tell us how to be better human beings to one another.

[0:43]

Strap in, everybody. We are going to be here for a while. We're watching two episodes today.

We're watching episodes 12 and 13 of the third season of SG1,

Jolinar's Memories and The Devil You Know.

[0:57]

My guess on the first one, we're going to experience some of Jolinar's memories,

and then The Devil You Know, right? Hey, maybe.

For The Devil You Know, I think we're going to find out the Tok'ra aren't the

angels that we've been led to believe.

We're going to have some Hammond and Jacob stuff and will culminate in basically

like, well, do we, do we go with, try to find a new devil or do we stick with the devil?

We know I'm excited for these Brent. I've loved all the Tok'ra and Jolinar stuff.

Why don't you drop some details on these episodes for us? Well,

I'm not going to hold this out too terribly long.

These are the 12th and 13th episodes of season three, as you've mentioned Jolinar's

memories and the devil, you know,

air dates, it's october 22nd and 29th i

always find it interesting with stuff like this like sometimes they air them

together like as a solid episode they didn't um

i'm not sure if this was sweeps week or just

middle of the season two-parter that they wanted to do they didn't go into a

into a break or anything after this so it was a great confluence of events right

because this is the the second one set the part two is their halloween episode

and it says devil oh i didn't pick up on that,

but that's, that's absolutely truth. That's how they program.

[2:10]

Both episodes here are directed by Peter DeLuise. Uh, so we'll be on the lookout

for that cameo that we know he's going to drop in there.

Uh, as far as writing it though, the first episode is written by some newcomers.

I'm not even going to bother to say their names. We're never going to see it from them again.

But the second one is written by Stargate, big wig, Robert C. Cooper.

So strap in for that. They have never missed on an episode that they have.

[2:33]

Ever written together never except for the times they did

yeah yeah uh but for the most part you

know it should be pretty good i don't know

we'll find out from you jeff what you think from your

first time watch i'm not trying to color it one way or the other i'm just going

to let you have that first time watch with that being said let's go ahead and

jump into all of this if you guys are joining us for the very first time you

guys like wait haven't you watched the episode yet haven't you watched already

no we're not because what's getting ready to happen is jeff and i are going

going to watch the episode together right now.

We're going to do it. And if you are watching with us on YouTube,

you're going to get our reaction to the next two episodes.

We're going to do them together as one. You're going to catch that reaction.

If you want the full unedited double feature length way, head over to our Patreon

page and you can catch all that over there at patreon.com slash.

Bye nerds. If you're listening on a podcasting app, We're gonna meet you on

the other side We'll probably do a check-in between the two episodes as we tend

to do on these two-parters But we come back after the devil, you know,

I'll share my first-time reactions

Brent We'll share any of the sci-fi messages that he has pulled down.

We got a lot of SG one in front of us Brent Let's kick it off with Joel and ours memories.

[3:49]

Music.

[4:06]

All right hey jeff so we've just finished watching

the first half of this before we jump into the second half give us

a quick you had a big surprise right there at the very end give us

your quick reaction to joel and ours memory huge surprise

last week they totally dropped the ball with the

ending this week knocked it out of the park freaking

apophis is back holy crud i dug

this episode i'm like i am the cold

open to this one we talked about during the episode was like they

needed four words and we're in all i needed

to see was that taking off a little thing and being like i am apophis

i want the next episode like i am so in

right now this may be a question for on the

the back end so remind me when

we get there but my question to you is how surprised

were you to see apophis okay

yeah that's good because the last time we saw him he dead

and he went and he went to sokar like like

that's the last we saw was he dead dead dead dead dead dead and they reinforced

it in an episode earlier in the season rules of engagement so uh let's jump

into the hey jeff the devil you know oh let's jump right into it oh there you go.

[5:20]

Music.

[5:38]

All right jeff um first of

all welcome back to all our audio folks who have gated through

two episodes you and i have just watched joel

and his memories and the devil you know back to

back right here right now we just finished 30 seconds

ago take us through it your first time watch

talk to us about these two episodes these episodes

are pretty ridiculous if i'm being honest i'm gonna

encapsulate the ridiculousness of them and just this one

thing so like pick up my phone right i'm a normal i'm a normal person i'm gonna

say hey brent it's apophis how's it going i'm down on nato uh need to talk about

something really quick but here's this episode brent this is apophis your god

calling you from the fires of hell on nato what What?

And he said it multiple times.

[6:30]

I love, I love, I love that Apophis is back.

And you asked me between episodes to remind you to ask this.

And I want to start off with this.

How surprised was I when Apophis showed up?

As surprised, I had, he was dead to me. Like Apophis was gone. He was dead.

We were finished. Well played by you as we were kind of going through the gold that had been killed.

You're like, oh yeah, but, but, you know, Apophis died from something else.

So they didn't really, they didn't kill him. Yeah. He wasn't dead.

And, and I, and I always said, and they sent his body to Sokar.

And I gotta, I gotta tell you, um, for, okay.

Did you truly believe when we saw Apophis die and they sent his body through the gate, he was done?

100%. You thought he was done, done like raw Hathor, Seth, now Sokar, like Dunsky.

So the funny, so yes, but hindsight already shows me like in sci-fi, you don't see the body.

Right. And what we saw was a somewhat living body going through.

Well, no, he, no, he was dead. He was dead, dead, dead at the end of that episode.

I'll try. They just gave him the body. Didn't they? They literally, and I.

[7:42]

Because I remember being so shocked that Apophis was back. It was like,

oh, they brought it back. Yeah.

And every time I watch it now, because Martuf's in that episode as well.

And he says, he says in the episode, Jeff, you go back and watch. He says in the episode.

Yeah, he's got a he's got a sarcophagus. He's probably going to bring him back

and he likes to torture his people.

So he's just going to bring him back and torture him a whole lot.

So like he tells you in that episode, Apophis isn't dead, dead, dead.

Like he's going to come back. They tell you. And I was like,

yeah, I totally thought he was dead. Dead. I'm glad you missed it.

I'm glad you thought he was really dead.

[8:19]

I like from the show's standpoint, how we had that episode earlier in the season

where they reminded us he was

dead and they showed it to us again with the rules of engagement episode.

So I like that they had that as good, good part, good, good ploy on their part

to throw that in and keep that fresh for a show that doesn't plan,

you know, necessarily arcs, stories and stuff

like that this was like perfect it

was so good yeah he literally like so let me

just read through my uh my journey on this

so i started off talking about bainar where i'm like okay she says there's a

gold that is uh less than attractive and as soon as she said that my note is

100 percent joel and i slept with dude to escape so we knew that was coming

and then we got it But then I thought the casting for Bynar was really good.

And then Naonak comes in and blasts Bynar. So I'm like, prime dude, Naonak is Tok'ra.

Oh my God, he just took out Bynar. Wait, no.

[9:20]

What? It's Apophis. I can't believe it.

It's just so perfectly done. I have questions around what happened between Sokar

receiving Apophis and then him ending up undercover on Neitu.

To like, did so car think he was dead and sent him like, cuz he's clearly on

the right side of his face. Like he's been through some stuff.

He's a Phantom of the opera thing going, his teeth are all messed up.

[9:49]

He wasn't like that when he died on earth, he was old, old man apophis.

He also has clearly been through a sarcophagus to get young again.

[9:58]

Hair i loved uh i just

said here the acting of apophis is next level like just

the way he was in the character it was

fun it was fun to watch him doing this stuff

this i think like this was a heavy episode it had.

[10:13]

A ton of lore and story in it but it was

fun at the same time yeah i i.

[10:19]

Love love how just evil Apophis

is I think this is the first time for me

well maybe not the first time but this is it's really

remarkable to me that my favorite parts of this show like even

as I look at my notes nothing to do with the SG-1 team

yeah the story and the acting and

the draw for me was Apophis and Sokar I

want I want that show I want

those two like at each other's throats you know

and trying and going after each other i am these are

two characters apophis to me up until

this point was the big villain but he

was kind of ridiculous i've already used that word

once he was kind of he was kind of lame in a

way he was just he bloviated all the time he that

what i started off with you this is your god apophis that's

all he had he was almost dr evil in his

whole like i am so evil i'm going to do these things

right right right but now like dude he got

in their heads he he he was

charlie for jack and oh

man yeah oh yeah so often so often tv shows are afraid to go full evil with

somebody or if they do go evil they'll they'll make them give give speeches

or they'll make stupid choices or they'll pause and they, you know,

leave all those openings for stuff.

[11:43]

Not apophis like they they took him all the

way to 11 and didn't let up there's

some pretty interesting stuff around sam and jacob just

you know the family stuff going on i think we saw the

genesis of their rocky relationship found

out that her mom passed away because jacob couldn't

pick her up she took a cab cab got hit by a car and when

she was younger blamed blame jacob for some

of that she's since forgiven him and moved forward but it's really

seemed to me that that was some of the the roots of what they

had reminded us of the harcesus and that

that's you know daniel's new new purpose so that was that was

pretty cool and then i think for me like my

last note was wait did sokar and friends

escape the blast or did they get blowed up and the

way they ended this episode brent was just i mean

i think at one point yeah at one point nameless

tokara guy had this bomb and tilk was like

yeah we're not gonna let this bomb go off and you're like oh look it's the plot of

the movie right here this was a movie like

these like so often you have a two-parter that are two episodes standalone or

whatever the pacing of the that are connected with a little cliffhanger this

this was one full story in fact it's almost shocking they well like they showed

it over two different weeks but this is one that like.

[13:04]

Like the cliffhanger isn't, it's not best of both worlds.

Oh my God, they're going to kill Picard. This is what?

[13:12]

Apophis is back and I got to know what's going to happen. Oh,

to wait would have been horrible, even the week.

But the pacing on the first episode was really good.

My note there is that the episode ended and I really felt like the story was just getting started.

I didn't feel like it was slow or dragging. And for a film, like a movie,

that's the perfect point. Like, here we go.

And that second episode just hit it running. And that final scene of the moon

exploding, that probably doesn't

that's half of their season budget just putting that scene together right

right and then apophis turning around and just facing the

camera it's just like oh that was huge i

loved it i really really i really

love this these episodes that's what i thought

about it brent did you get any sci-fi messages out

of these either of these two episodes or even both of

them well let's talk about that in a second let's let's go back and

update our account list that's right that's right uh i had

nothing nope we've already counted martoof as

a sam boyfriend have we not we have and even if

we hadn't i don't know that they had enough of a connection in this particular

episode to qualify that as a love interest between the two um this really was

sam and then joel and our old boyfriend whatever like there there there really

wasn't the the sexual tension i think that that you get and maybe some of the other Martu episodes.

[14:36]

This would be the situation of, so I was dating, this isn't a story.

I'm just giving the, I was dating a girl and she passed away and now I'm talking to her sister.

And he's literally talking. You're not like talking. Yeah.

No romantic, anything just I'm

interacting and I have feelings around this person who's no longer here.

[14:55]

That's it although i really wish we would have had a daniel

death like i wish we would have seen a sarcophagus and daniel

would have died and gotten thrown in the thing but we didn't i didn't

get any of deeds i got no for current out louds it's been a while

since we've we've added to this so uh we definitely need to do that um i gotta

tell you i i have this as a note as i jump into this whole deal i don't this

is certainly not a message and this is this is i fully acknowledge This is me

talking about a situation I have never,

ever been in and God willing, I never, ever will be in.

So I'm going to do that. Here's how I would respond in that situation,

knowing I've never really been there.

If my wife, whom I love with every fiber and ounce of my soul,

were ever in a position where she had to do the unthinkable to survive and escape,

I would want her to tell me, not keep it from me.

Because one, that's not something she should be in alone. alone.

That's not something she should carry alone or by herself.

And I'm here for her and I will not judge her, look at her different.

And I know that she may be worried that I will, but I won't.

I would want to be in that with her because we are partners.

And, and while I understand why Joel and R chose not to tell Martouf,

why I understand she didn't want to relive it. She didn't want to go through it again.

She didn't want to have all that, all that baggage.

[16:18]

It was something she was carrying by herself and I really like she should have

leaned on her partner for that in the scene when?

[16:25]

Martiff was feeling pretty bad about it and Sam just looks at him as like look like,

She loves you like she loves you and you know don't feel bad about it What I

was I wanted so badly and I almost brought it up in there for us to talk about

But I know there'd be more of a conversation But I just wanted more tooth to

stop and look and just say almost exactly that he's like no,

I'm not angry. I'm sad and.

[16:47]

That must have been so hard for her she must have been so scared

yeah and the courage that she had to do

that so we could be together again that i could be a

part of her life still like i just wanted

i want to love her and hug her i feel so

much compassion toward that's what i wanted to have happen instead he

was just mad but i also i also understand that idea

too of yeah being mad anyway of

course of course that's how you did it oh yeah you could

have run away but you had to choose that didn't you didn't you

no no no but see i wouldn't be mad at her i would be mad at

him for making her go

through that and for like i you know the the the anger

like i i get i get it i just don't think that's

how i would respond at all anyway uh my job

here is not to talk about my experience watching the

episode my job here is to talk about messages that

i may have picked up on you know i believe you

probably could pull several like oh there was this one situation situation made

me think of this and this one situation made me think of this and here's a great

example jack says uh to to martoof marty was like yeah listen i'm gonna go down

there by myself there's no escape and he's like well we're all gonna go too

and he's like yeah but we don't know if she can't remember them we don't know and we're out of luck and,

jack's like yeah but she did escape before if it's been done once it could be done again.

[18:05]

Like there's a there's always hope you don't have to poo-poo everything like

we'll figure Figure it out along the way.

You don't always have to have it figured out. I could pull stuff like that out.

None of that was what this episode was about. This was a two-parter.

I like how you connected this to Halloween.

We're literally in hell over Halloween.

[18:25]

This that's what this episode was about. This was, we got to go rescue Sam's dad.

We get caught while we're in there and we've got to figure out a way out.

And Apophis comes back and there's Sokar.

And then, you know, you got to deal with Tokar. I mean, there's just,

just all of that going on.

Um, Jeff, I did not have any messages coming out of this episode.

If you have one you want to stump for, please feel free, but I've got to give

this one. No Chevrons. Cause it's just, it wasn't that kind of an episode.

I totally agree. Like you said, a couple of things. We even talked during the

episode about the bomb and how doing the math, it's the right call.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, but that literally like

that was just me saying the math made sense. That wasn't in the episode at all.

This was, I mean, not that plot, plot, plot doesn't mean message,

but this was just plot, plot, plot. But the plot was great.

Do what it takes for those you love.

[19:24]

Maybe, maybe. I mean, not really. Cause I think like you said,

the point of this episode was, you know, like we're going to go get Sam's dad.

We're going to this stuff. No, the point of this episode was to reintroduce

Apophis and let us see Sokar.

That was it. Fun. And then and then show us yeah and show us the the stakes

that are there like so car is no joke,

cool we got that hey by the way there is harcisa's child

out there somewhere we thought apophis and aminat were dead so

now daniel just could kind of take a sweet bippy time figuring out

where he is figuring out where this keb place is or whatever the heck that is

uh oh wait shoot apophis is out there again now there's a race now it's a race

i mean that's that's really where we come at this and by the way two-parter

maybe it sweeps week halloween's cool you know we're trying to pump pump ratings.

We got 22 episodes. We got to fill out. Not every single one of them is going

to be message laden. So I go see, I go zero Chevrons.

Uh, that does not indicate quality of episode though. All it does is talk about a rating.

You, my friend, however, get the chance to rank this episode and our 100% completely

accurate and definitive ranking of season three of Stargate.

[20:37]

SG1 Jeff let me read our current top

five as it sits I don't know if this is going

to crack the top five or not the top five currently sits at

forever in a day number one number two is fair game number three

is learning curve number four is into the fire number five our last episode

with Michello is legacy Jeff where do you place Joel and we're going to do these

together as one I don't I mean you could separate them I guess if you really

wanted to but typically together is one Joel and I was remembering devil,

you know, where do you got it?

We separated at the beginning of the season for purposes.

Like those were two, the two episodes were very different in quality.

So we separated them, put them in a different list. This was one episode altogether.

And if you couldn't guess, as I was talking about it, I loved this episode.

[21:22]

Forever in a Day is our current number one, which was fantastic.

But so much of what I loved about that episode was the message of it and how it carried it through.

And it's still, that's amazing. amazing made you feel big time

it made you feel made me feel made you feel made

everyone who's seen that feel it's powerful episode it's great unfortunately

it's not going to be our number one anymore because these two are because I

mean this was beautiful it was fun the pacing was amazing and SG1 it's got great

messaging we've learned that but that's not what SG1 is about SG1 is just

fun sci-fi with good stories and that's exactly what

this is joan r and the devil you know at number

one joan r's memories and the devil you know are at number one i'm not surprised

not surprised good you'd be weird if you were well jeff that is gonna do it

for us here for these two episodes joan r's memories and the devil you know

next time jeff we got a brand new episode on deck for you.

It is an episode called foothold. That is one word. Not two.

It's a compound word. As my children say foothold.

Would you care to take a guess as to what foothold might be about foothold foothold.

Okay. Um, okay. The SG one team is gonna be out on assignment.

They're gonna get the Iris code.

[22:46]

Like they're coming back from the mission. it's going to open up but it's

going to be some aliens that come through i don't think it's going to be gould

because we just did a gould story it's going to be somebody else they're going

to come in and they're going to um they're going to attack they're going

to attack the sgc and basically get a foothold

in there as sg1 comes back

and we're going to get another kind of pew pew pew fighting thing

but it's going to be in the sgc we're going to save some

money after after this last one

we're going to do it within the sgc and do a couple like bang bangs

and pew pews to make the whole thing happened you're a

good guesser jeff yeah yeah you're a

good guesser all right we're gonna find out next

time right here on stargate sg1 for the first time

we'll see just how close my buddy jeff over there is thank you guys so much

for joining us don't forget to subscribe wherever you're catching this show

whether you're on an audio podcast somewhere your favorite podcatcher maybe

you're on youtube uh you could be i don't know where else this show is playing jeff who Who knows?

Who knows? I don't know. You could be watching this on the billboard of Times

Square in New York. Probably.

Anyway, leave us a rating and review wherever you find us. Please be sure to

share the show with somebody out there that you know who loves Stargate or someone

who needs to get into the gate for the very first time, just like my buddy Jeff over there.

[24:04]

So with that, guys, we're going to get out of here. Thank you so much.

We'll see you back next week. Hey, Brent.

What's up? So this was a great episode. We saw Nayanek come in and just blast

Bynar in this one, but we never got a chance to say goodbye to him.

How, how would you say bye to Bynar?

Uh, I don't know, Jeff, how would you say bye to Bynar?

0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1.

[24:30]

Music.

Set Audio File

Undo

Redo