Pretense

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Pretense - Season 3, Episode 15

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Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:36] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time. And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm also watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time. Truth is, I've actually seen this show about 47 times. However, for the very first time, I'm slowing this down, and I'm trying to dive into it and find out what are those good sci-fi messages that Stargate is trying to teach us. You know those things that hold up a mirror to society shows how we can be better human beings to one another or just give us hope that things could be better in the future this week brett we're going to see if that happens in the 15th episode of the third season of sg1 pretense now last week when i uh just tried to figure out what it's going to be made my prediction went through a couple of different things i i had past tense in my head when i started with pretense post tense all those things no it's a pretense and i think hammond general hammond is going to have a pretense he's going to put sg1 through the ringer some rough stuff and at the end he'll have something cool like hey you passed the test and now general o'neill or lieutenant jackson or some something will happen that's really cool and happy at the very end okay i'm going to do something i don't usually do jeff okay i'm gonna tell you you just nailed the episode what but not for this episode.

[2:03] What you just described is an episode of stargate like we're hammond messes with him and then oh you win you're promoted there's a little more to it than that but yeah it is the that is literally what it is the whole like and that's what the episode is um i i will not tell you when we get to that it is not however this episode that's fair that's fair but that is that is the plot line of that and it's it's it's actually it's a one of my favorite episodes i really like that episode so it's a great prediction it's a great idea for a show i'm glad they stole it from me.

[2:43] Why don't you tell us the details on pretense? Yeah, there's a few details here. This is the 15th episode, Season 3. Original air date, Jeff, was January 21st, 2000. So we've had about a 10-week break or so since our last episode of Foothold. They had to leave some space because of Y2K. Everything could have changed, right? Everything could have. And they needed holiday breaks and stuff. This is the first episode of the new millennium. Right?

[3:11] Um so we have that one um this is where things start to change a little bit for sg1 as far as their air dates go and i'll point a few them out but i'm not gonna do it too much i'm usually gonna go by its air date from the united states okay however sg1 is now premiering in real time, on sky one which is like the sci-fi channel over in like england i guess or something like that or the uk um and they often get the show before we do oh wow like they'd have it several days before we do so as i put out the the original air day i am i'm going to be referring to the united states airdrop or air date um not necessarily the the sky one why because marica is where i'm from well that's what you got that's probably what all the stuff says yeah so uh but but i may i may from time to time point out the sky one day i believe this particular sky one date was january 19th, so two days before uh writer for this episode is written by our old friend katherine powers oh we're gonna call i'm gonna call her thor's powers thor's powers um.

[4:23] I will not say anything more about this episode because I really want you to have your own experience of it uncolored by my like or dislike. Catherine Powers has had some really awful episodes. She's also had some really good episodes, though. Yeah, she's kind of one or the other. Yeah. So the question is, which one is this episode going to fall in? That's going to be for you to decide, my friend. All right. That's a lot of pressure, and I'm a little nervous.

[4:55] Well, with that, we are going to go watch this episode. If you're just joining us for the first time, first of all, welcome. You're amazing. We're so glad you found us. Here's how this works. We're about to go watch this episode. Like right now, we're going to not even break this video. If you're watching the video, you're watching us on YouTube, hang out because you're going to catch our reactions. Jeff and I are going to watch it right now. If you're watching us on Patreon, you actually get the full unedited version. And if you guys want to find out more about that, you can head over to patreon.com slash Bye nerds. If you're listening on a podcast app, you're about to gate into the future. We'll be there waiting for you on the other side. We'll all share my first time reactions. Brent will go through the sci-fi messages that he found. So let's kick this bad boy off. Brent pretense. Jeff, I have a question real quick before we do that. All right. When we drop the Patreon link. Yeah. Are we flashing that up on screen?

[5:53] Because that's a that's a post thing that you tend to do flashing what on screen the the actual url, because by because you know by how do you spell by nerds oh yeah i have not done that because we don't do the you know it's babble on five first that's the number five and the word first like right i don't really have that ability with this one i haven't put that up there i probably should make a thing for it maybe maybe because this part will get cut out of the youtube version yeah well that thing is though on like the youtube and stuff we'll just link it it is in the show notes it's always in the show notes for sure um so and we can always well now see that comes back to me if i what i what i'd be really good at is knowing where we say that in the video and then i'd put like little card like up there yeah yeah we'll have something there we'll make it work it is harder than you might think to put a card in a specific spot yeah it is especially when you have videos that are more than like four minutes long.

[6:46] Yeah it really is like to time that card up with something that you actually say in the video like it's uh and there's somebody out there right now it's like are you kidding me you know how easy it is come on guys get a break you get those youtubers who have teams of like 20 editors doing stuff yeah super easy so easy that just doesn't that just make your kids be like yeah i want my own youtube channel come on dad let me have my own youtube channel do you do you know what it takes to actually make that happen kiddo there's one i won't give that he doesn't need the credit they have millions of subscribers but one that my daughter likes to watch and oh my god one thing i appreciate about those sometimes they'll shoot videos in like their warehouse where they do all the work and you see literally the table of 20 people with computers doing the stuff and it's like yeah they're just out shooting footage coming up with ideas and shooting it they dump it to these people and they make it all cool like yeah it's super awesome because it takes that many people to and they're running social media and they're running. It's like, do you see 20 people? No, you see you and me. You don't get a YouTube channel.

[7:54] My kids, God love their hearts. They both want to have their own channel. What they don't want to do is to do their own channel. Yeah. It's tough, though. Patreon, you're getting a lot. Oh, my gosh. We're getting this now. But no, because I think what they see, they don't necessarily see the work. They see us come in and record, right? And then they see our stuff up on YouTube. That's what they're like, yeah, I want to do that, too. And then they, you know, I, I don't know if I imagine you show your daughter. So she sees the numbers sometimes. Sometimes. Like we have our stats pages and stuff we look at. Yeah. My kids look over my shoulder when they see that. Like, whoa, dad, that's so cool. Yeah. She makes fun of me. Cause all the people, you have a million, you know, I'm like, no.

[8:36] We're two 40 something year old dudes who are watching a 30 year old sci-fi show. No, we don't have millions. Unless we started doing things like uh you know hey let's just eat uh let's just eat things that are blue today we do that we'll get millions of views on our uh channel apparently so my daughter right now wants to turn her bedroom into a secret room in the house oh yeah yeah she watches that ben guy right the one of them yeah one of them yeah yeah with the cam the builder or whatever yes my daughter's like yeah they could turn the whole thing like they're gonna go to mcdonald's for a Happy Meal while we turn their whole room into a secret room. Like, yeah, it takes 10 minutes, Dad. Yeah, they put up a timer. Oh my God, this is, it makes me so mad. They do things, we gotta do this in half an hour. They put a timer up that runs, and then they're like, we gotta go to the store and get some stuff. And I'm like, what the, people buy this? Come on, it took half an hour to drive to the store. Yep. Ah. Jeff, let's watch an episode. Let's do that. All right. Channel 7 locked. Oh, my God.

[9:53] See you next time. Space the final frontier these are the voyages you have to give yourself a buzz for that, although 100% that's what that seems, I honestly always forget that this is how this episode opens, look at those effects look at those 2000s effects right there looks good actually explosions, Except that ship had to be like the slowest thing ever. No! No! No! No! That's pretty baller for a crash landing right there. Right? Wing rips off and everything. At least it stayed close by. Run towards the wreckage.

[10:59] Music.

[11:13] Chlorelle, right? Help me. Skara. They're bringing them all back. We kill Sharae Aminette. We bring back Apophis. Now we've got Chlorelle Skara. What's happening? I mean, Apophis is like chilling in hell right now, right? We don't know. He took it over or something. He did something. He and Sokar are locked in mortal combat that will last an eternity right they just keep throwing each other in a sarcophagus to revive them so they can torture them some more and then they take over again it's back and forth maybe you should just be done, like the first one of you who doesn't throw them into a sarcophagus wins, just let him die let him bleed out I always hear Jafar's voice how many times do I have to kill you boy, Jafar's voice. What if Jafar was a Jafar? Actually, Jafar would be a goal. Yeah, but he's got that hat on. He could be covering the thing.

[12:26] Music.

[12:36] Still no incoming signal signal. Oh, New Jersey. Great music. Is it my eyes or does it Irish look kind of... It's losing integrity. Aww. It's on fire! Stop! It's a kitty cat! That cat is going to scratch your eye out, Sam. Cat scratch fever. It's Schrodinger, the cat I gave to the Tolan Noreen. Cat. Oh, wow. The Tolan possesses the technology to walk through solid matter. Thank you, Tech, for reminding us. By the way, if you all recall, they refuse to share with us. Thank you, Jack, for reminding us. Oh, there he is. General Hammond, I'm unfamiliar with Earth Protocol on these matters. I sent Schrodinger so you would know a friend was coming. It's all right, Nareem. The Tollin are welcome here. That's a good thing, because they would have shot you. We're ready to unload.

[13:48] So much for an impenetrable Iris. It's good to see you again. So, for the record...

[13:58] One of the things we're counting is sam boyfriends yeah we have already counted this guy did we count noreen we did that's right we have we've already counted noreen because they had their night under the stars and they did all this stuff in fact i think it might have been the tollen episode no i think it was once we got to martoof but whatever we've we've already counted you know this guy so we're not going to count him again but let's just recognize that well i don't know Jeff what do you say because it's been a season and a half almost two seasons since we've seen this guy love like that never fizzles out stays alive so we're gonna just call it it's same same boyfriend he's just back again I guess because we're not gonna count Martuf every time we see him no because him and Sam always have a weird like sexual tension every time they're on screen and they should like they should yeah okay cool especially after last time what can we do for you, I am here to deliver a message from our highest governing body, Colonel O'Neill. Colonel O'Neill is your highest governing body? I request the presence of you and your team for triad. I feel like I'm being served.

[15:06] So what exactly is this triad? It's an ancient ceremony of justice, quite honorable. So it's kind of like a triol. I'm not familiar with trial Trial, it's sort of like a tribunal A place where matters of justice and law are decided Then yes, a triad is similar to your trial.

[15:31] Who's on trial? At. Triad. The decision the Triad must reach is of great concern to an old friend of yours. He's an Abedonian by the name of Skara. What? It is he who requested your presence. There's a lot of weird accents going on. Skara, Triel. But he does need your help for Triad. Where is this taking place? Our destination is the new homeworld, Tolana. But we sent you to the Nox planet. There wasn't a gate on Tolana. The Nox and the Tolan were able to devise a way to get us there. Tolan. Of course you were. Way smarter than we are. They're way smarter than we are.

[16:14] Interesting that called him Skara, not Chlorell. So did you hear it was Skara's voice who said, help me. It wasn't the gould thing going. But you have also seen, Jeff, I believe, have you, yeah, you, you've seen Goa'uld speak without using the rubber ball voice too. Like they don't always have to use that voice. So can turn it off and on. Yes. But yeah. So Scarra has requested Jack's presence specifically at triad. Is he pregnant? So now the real person gets to come through. Only one way to find out. Right. Look at this.

[17:04] Very nice. So you built that Stargate? Yes. Way smarter than we are. It looks bigger and much more dainty than the Stargates we're used to. It looks more sleek. Oh, yeah, not bigger. Just the angle there. Yeah.

[17:24] Music.

[17:48] Which I like that Talata is represented on a university campus, given how much smarter they are than us. Oh, yeah. What just happened? Your weapons have been disabled. What? Do not worry. You may continue to carry them if you wish. If it makes you feel like more of a man, you can... You don't think you should have told us? Okay, I'm going to pause. i really want to know the process that that worked with if they came through with a bunch of energy weapons and that thing like shut down the energy deal i kind of get that these are, mechanical black powder filled bullets and those sorts of things like how did you stop that like there's did you seize it lock it up like what did you do how did you know it was a weapon.

[18:46] They're way smarter than we are apparently apparently i still want to know what they did i love how you're trying to science this thing out it this is the one question i have every time i watch this episode that like kind of takes me out of it can i believe in interstellar travel through a stargate sure can i believe that they can walk through an impenetrable thing, sure can i believe a lot of the other stuff we're going to see sure but i need to have that light He disabled a freaking mechanical gun. This is ridiculous. You think we're supposed to believe this? What's wrong with you? Right? It's about this before we... Total retcon. I didn't find it relevant. Disrespective of the cannon. We don't travel to other planets without weapons with which to defend ourselves. May I ask what you intend to defend yourself against? The Tolan have never threatened you in any way. That is correct, O'Neal. I do not feel the need to carry a weapon in this place. I have these. And, sir, judging by what I've seen in the last five minutes, our weapons wouldn't be much of a match for their technology anyway. There you go. No harm will come to you. You're under our protection. Is that a money back if you're not completely alive guarantee?

[19:54] This way. I'm going to just not answer that. He's like, are you trying to be funny or are you serious right now? We also do not know what this money is. Right? We live in a post-scarcity society. We are Star Trek on Stargate.

[20:23] Okay that's cool these must be our visitors from earth welcome, hi chancellor travel this is colonel jack o'neill hi dr daniel jackson major samantha carter hello and tilk we are honored that you have agreed to participate in triad Your seeker will decide which one of you Will be Archon, Seeker? Archon? Watch out for the golden snitch With respect to High Chancellor Nareem didn't really explain the triad very well Could you please define those terms for us? He just threw Nareem straight under the bus In triad there are two arguing parties Called seekers Triadic law requires one Archon Who's sympathetic to each cause and one neutral archon. The archons argue the dispute until a decision is reached. So a seeker is like a defendant and the archon is his attorney. I got it. So Skara is our... Seeker. Seeker? Narim will take you to him now. This way. That's why they call him a seeker.

[21:33] Music. Are you looking at the banner in the background? Yeah. It's a lot like Apophysis' thing. It is. You. You paid for what you did to my father. Hey, funny story. Red light, blue light. I'm very happy to see you, all of you. What's the deal? What just happened? The Dolan designed the device worn about his chest. It suppresses the Goa'uld's ability to silence his host. The Goa'uld and host are free to speak at will. The device cannot be removed as long as Chlorell and Skara are our guests. The indicator on the front prevents one from pretending to be the other. Red indicates it is Chlorell who speaks, blue Skara. Nice device. I like that they put Red as the bad guy. Make it super, super clear. 100% Star Trek on SG-1. Are you not happy to see me?

[21:40] Great Who song, by the way. One of my favorites.

[23:06] He wouldn't be here if he wasn't happy to see you, Scar. It's good to see you. I knew you would come. Soon, with your help, I'll be free of this demon. Every day I fight him. I listen. He looks older to me. Much. Yeah. It is time for Scarrow to choose Scarrow. It's been a couple years.

[23:29] Vanir is strong. Vanir is wise. May I not choose both? You may. They may both argue. However, they will have but one vote. Okay, what's this triad about? It seems like a really reasonable justice system. Two days ago, a small vessel crashed in a remote area. The occupant was badly injured. It was Skara. We were fleeing a battle group dispatched by Herower. My demon knew that the Dwarlands would stop them. Which we did. We warned them, but they came anyway. Our defense grid was forced to destroy them. I like how he actually seems to feel bad about killing Harrow. But two of his motherships are destroyed. Wait a minute. You blew away two ghoul motherships? We are not a warring people. But our defensive technology is far advanced of that of the Go'ul. Yeah, well, I know all this weapons chatter gets my blood pumping. Can we get back to the triad? Yes, of course. When our sentries reached the crashed vessel, Skara asked us to free him of his Go'ul. But the gold refuses. Therefore, under total law, we have no choice but to hear both arguments before acting. And Chlorelle's Archon is... Who?

[24:50] This is fascinating to me because it's like i've been joking that they are star trek on sg1 but like this is like elevated star trek of hey so we know he's go old or no good yeah anywhere else if scar showed up he's like i want to get this thing out of me they'd be like okay get on the table let's do it but they're like no it's a you're both sentient beings yeah you both have a say and we're going to hear you out and make a decision yeah wow what is it possible that the gold actually has a claim to this body that is legit to be heard and the fact that they're even giving him a voice to say that and not just automatically like uh yeah you stole dude's body like you know yeah game set match but no like we're gonna hear you out this is this is this is evolved kind of stuff going on here but again go back so nareem's like yeah we told him not to come and he did and i just feel so bad that we blew up his people and his ships and like dude that's the bad guy right you know but to him it's not a bad guy to the knocks when that remember the knocks they didn't look at apophis and and sg1 as good.

[26:02] Guy bad guy they both that you know what i mean it's star trek on on stargate they both valued life exactly we we have evolved to being above conflict and war we can defend ourselves if we need to the nox can hide it surely the nox has other types of weaponry that they well now because they're super pacifist right yeah they're just going to not be there it almost seems like they just phase out like okay we'll just go where you can't get us it's okay peace we'll see you yep um the tollen don't do that but they they defend themselves but it at great heartache almost yeah so yeah it's a Great scene. This is wild stuff.

[26:41] Music.

[26:52] Do I have to wear one of those? Ask the question, Jack. Ask the question. My Lord Sopakna, we are honored that you have agreed to participate in Triad. She's addressing him exactly how she addressed Jack. I was mother.

[27:08] Music.

[27:35] So... Here comes Jack with it. Are you kidding me? When you were trying to get us to come here and then disarmed us, you didn't feel it appropriate to mention the fact that a freaking Gould was going to be here? Not to mention his associates? They are as unarmed as you. You sure of that? Our technology detects and disables any form of weaponry. Uh-huh. We still got tilk. You said there was a third neutral archon. That's... a tolan? No, we have asked our friends to send someone capable of remaining neutral. I believe you have met.

[28:11] Yep. Heck yeah. I may have had knocks on the brain when it's good to see you once again, friends. I'm always sad that it's not Armin Schimler. Seriously, right? Yeah. Yeah. Accident waiting for a place to happen. I have so much, uh... Mr. Negative. So much scratch. Yes! Sir, what makes you so confident? Because Laya is a fair and insightful person who'll vote our way. Besides, she likes us. Laya likes everyone. That's the Nox way. The Nox are not a conflict with the Goa'uld. You may recall they saved Apophis when you attempted to eliminate him. So, what do we have on this fine-gould fella? Zipakna was one of Apophis' most loyal underlords. Well, I don't believe for a second he's come to talk Chlorella out of here. Making a pretty big assumption there, Jack. They're ready for you. Thank you. In case you need to know, his name is Zipakna. Zipakna. I wonder how much they spent on all the banners. Yes, sir. The Earth thing back there, the Apophis thing.

[29:26] So, the Earth one, the Earth banner back there. this dispute is the uh is the stargate symbol for earth yeah the apophis one is it has apophis symbol on one but then below it it has the stargate symbol for abydos oh really so his his banner is both apophis chlorelle and abydos skara like like split it's so cool because not only are they acknowledging all this stuff but also they're they're just fully embracing both persons yeah oh this is it's it's it's a heady up like yeah anyway yeah let's get into it to inhabit the same body both have requested sole use of the body therefore we must establish right of priority over the body to whom does it belong ostensibly the one to whom it was born.

[30:23] Your eminence, I must request that the human contingent follow the quorum appropriate to such an auspicious body as this one. I agree. It's interesting that the gold is. The archons will refrain from questions or comments until their side is acknowledged. He's the parliamentarian of the whole thing. I recognize Lord Sapakna and Chlorell. Until three years ago, the humans on Abydos lived under Goa'ud law, administered by Ra. Now, by that law, they would go at all property. Lord Chlorell merely took what was already his. By force. Colonel O'Neill, please. Sorry. I understand your desire to defend your position, Colonel, and I will give you that opportunity. I would first like to hear Skara's perspective.

[31:25] I was born to this body, free of the demon Chlorel. He stole my body. An Abydos, I would have married, had children, grown old and died. The Gaul took more than my body. He stole my life. It's a good argument human arcons, It's good idea letting Daniel talk when you were born did your people believe there were slaves No, Just so we can all be clear who was raw We believed him to be an evil god, so he enslaved your people through superstars.

[32:18] Music.

[32:35] Tilk and Sam as tourists. Now, here, there's no scanner disabling their weapons, right? Well, yes, they're just on the planet. The people of Abydos hunt. Although, I guess, yeah, I don't think their weapons are out. Yes. Do they also use animals as beasts of burden for food, for clothing? Yes. Do you also eat the flesh of humans? No, never. Then you make judgment that animals are of lesser value than humans. We care for our animals. We worship them. We thank them for the gifts they give us. Yes, but you keep them to do your will, and you kill them to survive. When we have the need. As we do with humans, when we have the need. If a human has the right to take an animal's body and do with it as he pleases, because he is a superior being, then so does a Goa'uld. And by that argument alone, the Goa'uld has priority. It's a good argument. And the host belongs to Chloro.

[34:03] I reckon this guy, the actor, is a tough from a lot of early 2000s stuff. He's doing a great job in this movie. He's one of those that guy actors. I know that guy. I can't place him off the top of my head, but I know that guy. He was in Walking Tall with the Rock, if I remember right. Probably. Your argument is flawed in oh so many ways. Humans are self-aware animals aren't animals are not because you deem them not to be just as we deem humans not to be, what my learned colleague means is that humans have a more advanced intelligence than lower cast animals exactly just like that do they though? Is that not a matter of perspective just like a human considers itself more intelligent than a pig, might a pig consider itself more intelligent than a rat oh yeah speaking of rats what's your point, my point is that the go out world consider ourselves more intelligent than humans our technology is more advanced than yours our mere knowledge of the universe is more advanced than yours you stole that knowledge.

[35:22] Conquered and acquired right yeah human knowledge when you took humans as hosts just as you took knowledge from other species, the stargate isn't your technology you just you took that as far as we know, nothing you have came from you so clearly the evidence is not that you're more intelligent just more parasitic the method of gaining the knowledge is not a question, We were able to obtain it You were not Oh please Gentlemen We seem to have wandered away from the central topic Same argument can be made for so many races on earth Or nationalities Which seeker has priority over this body? If I may your eminence I don't think we ventured away from the central topic at all What we're trying to point out is that the Gould Steal what they possess, As they have in fact Stolen Skara's body Can I, sorry Dana, can I say something? Please don't You're not being helpful.

[36:28] Skara You once told me you'd rather die Than live another day as a ghoul Why? What I suffer each day is worse than death, For example Oh, my God. I remember the demon stretching up my hand to kill Tanya the husband of my sister, there was nothing I could do to stop it.

[37:14] And I have seen many more far worse atrocities than this I demand that the humans stay on topic. It is on topic. You just want to avoid talking about all the nasty stuff he's witnessed. The host witnesses nothing, since nothing of the host survives. You know, at that point, I think you're literally talking to the host. Right, yeah. I beg to differ. I have a blue light right here that says I'm still here. What are they doing? I am uncertain.

[38:02] They have to remind us that they're actually baddies, right? There's like, don't buy into this stuff too much, everybody. They're up to no good. Oh, it's a pock. Now I'd like to ask you a question if I may. I hope I have the answer. I'm sure you will. Is your host in there somewhere? Nothing of the host survives really there it sits how do you explain scara, what you call scara is nothing but a remnant he can speak now only because the tolan use their technology to silence clorell but how could he speak at all if he hadn't survived and he spoke well his words were not those of a remnant personality, she speaks I think she's got a thing for Skara she's like yeah he speaks well, it's not exactly neutral anymore I'd like to go knock some booths, we observed them locate at least six total weapon sites we think they were doing something to disable them sir which in my opinion means and Sopakna is using the triad to stall for time so his men can disable the Toland defenses. Then take the opportunity to...

[39:29] Music.

[39:45] Samantha, I hope you've not waited long. No, thank you for coming. It's my pleasure. In fact, I'm pleased that we can finally be alone together. I've been waiting a long time for this. I asked you to meet me because I need your help. Samantha, I... I have missed you. Lots happened to me since I last saw you. There is another. No. A couple, actually. Not in the way that you mean. See, I was blended with a Tok'ra, and she died to save my life, but I still have her memories and her feelings. And she is part of you? Yes. I can't have a relationship with anyone until I'm absolutely sure whose feelings I'm feeling. I wonder if this is going to play into the trial. You are very wise, Samantha. May I ask then why you send me? Teal and I have been following the Jaffa that came with the Goa'uld contingent. Samantha, why would you do such a thing? I was sure your people were more diplomatic than that. We did it out of concern for your people. We think the Goa'uld are using the Triad to buy time so that they can prepare for an attack on Talana. Why do you think that? Because we saw them tampering with your weapons. That would be impossible. The weapons are made of an impenetrable ally and protected by security codes. Nareem, they were doing something to them.

[41:12] Music.

[41:19] We asked Lord Sopakna about your accusation. He denied it. Maybe he should have just gone and checked. Well, that's a shocker. I hope you didn't take his word for it. Our experts have been unable to find any form of tampering on any of the cannons. Carter? Maybe they were painting them, sir. I see no paint. Oh, sorry, it's an Earth military expression. It means marking them as targets. Nor do I see any markings.

[41:49] Well, there are ways that they can target the weapons without actually leaving a mark. If so, the instant one of these cannons is attacked, the rest will automatically locate the position of the attacker and destroy it. Unless they're all taken out simultaneously. Shield. If that were possible, why then do the Goald Harur not do so when he pursues... She ruined that term. Well, maybe because he didn't have a contingent on the planet's surface targeting the weapons in advance. He didn't do it because it is impossible It would take but one of these devices To protect this planet from a Gowald mother ship And we have many more than that Our technology is superior in every way to theirs And to yours My, aren't we cocky Colonel, If this is an attempt to influence the outcome of Triad It is a feeble attempt indeed, I assure you, Your Eminence, this is not intended as anything other than an attempt to help your people. I hope so. But understand, if you continue to pursue this matter in any way, I will disqualify you from Triad and replace you. Skara will be represented by someone else. Is that understood? With protest. Now, you will return to Triad in the morning, and you will not mention this matter any longer.

[43:11] Music.

[43:23] Just stay away from Zippy and his gaggle of ghouls, okay? I know the Goa'uld, O'Neal. They will attack. But I don't see a choice here. If we keep pursuing the issue, Scarra's going to be represented by God knows who, and he won't stand a chance in hell. I'm not going to let that happen. Regrettably, I must disagree with you in this situation, O'Neal. I believe we are faced with the loss of Scarra, one individual, versus the death of many Tolan, and possibly ourselves. That's assuming that Tolan can't defend themselves, which, personally, I think is a false assumption. Yeah, they did bring down a couple of motherships. I think they'll be okay. The Tolan have not been at war in many generations. They do not think strategically. I believe that to be a fatal flaw. Their naivete could be their downfall. That is correct. Allow Major Carter and myself to continue monitoring the gold contingent in case of... Man. Excuse my interruption. To the many. There's so many themes this episode is hitting on.

[44:26] Music. The odds, Tilk, does not stand down. Tilk. This is highly inappropriate of you to come to me during Triad. I assure you that I would never intend to influence your decision in any way Except for Red Owl, You must not mention Chlorella or Skara If you do, I will be forced to report the matter to the Tolan I will only mention my heart, which belongs to you As you are aware, I was formerly in the service of the Goa'uld If this is designed to bias me against the Goa'uld I would never do such a thing, nor do I feel the need I am here, in fact, in direct violation of an order given by Colonel O'Neill, Come on I have become convinced that the Goa'uld are planning to destroy all the Toll and Weapon installations simultaneously Thereby preventing them from ever returning fire, The Goa'uld will then attack this world, which will be defenseless Why do you tell me this?

[44:28] Got your orders. Stand down.

[45:45] So you can knock them around. You and I are the only ones capable of preventing this tragedy from occurring. You and I? Teal'c, you are a strong warrior. But I am of the Nox. If you've learned anything of us, you've learned that we defend ourselves through illusion and mastery of the mind. Precisely. Mm-mm. Hmm. Teal'c's a smart cookie, dude. Right? Yeah. You talk about how they haven't lived strategically. That's the only way he lives right like so he says precisely teal cast something up his sleeve he's got something up his mind most people just continue watching this show right now and find out exactly what it is but i'm going to pause it and i'm going to force you to talk it out and tell me what did till what was the conversation that followed for teal after they cut that scene what's how they're going to use her ability essentially to i think to create oh this is where pretense comes into the whole thing create a situation where they believe that they were successful in shutting down or painting or whatever the weaponry so that when they do make a move to attack they're ready for it and they're like look at you with your pants down.

[47:04] Let's see if that's what happens you're a good guesser jeff yeah clearly.

[47:16] But either way i'm sorry let's let's just say tilk kept his into the bargain i'm not talking about scar clorell i'm not trying to influence you against the ghoul i'm not talking about triad, also he's not necessarily at this point following the jaffa around or so like yeah he talked about it but he's staying cool to o'neill and and laia both yep yeah To my clurdiness. We will resume. Lord Zepakna has asked us to reconvene early because he wishes to make a challenge.

[47:57] Arm wrestling. Trial by combat. Torn raw does not provide for a penalty of death. Is that correct? It is. Then I wish to point out the futility of this triad. A Goa'ul needs a host to survive. This is a biological fact beyond our control. If you award priority to Skara, then it is as a death sentence for Chlorelle. Of course, if you flip that around, you got Skara on death row. He's already dead. Yes. But as you proved earlier in Triad, the hope survives.

[48:44] Yeah. Wow. We concede this point. Therefore, if you reward priority to Chlorelle, both host and symbiote live. Final, my motion for summary dismissal. Boom! One lives freely, the other lives as a slave. We would put forth that life as a slave is not life at all. And if you want to save both lives, give us, Skara, and you take Chlorelle. Tok'ra can put him in another host for all I care. Who, Colonel? Perhaps you would volunteer? Uh, no. Perhaps you could find someone who would choose to be a host. Seems like a fair compromise.

[49:36] Nareem, what is the meaning of this? You know Triad is held as a closed session. And so do we now. Your Eminence, please adjust your viewer to the Orbital Observatory. A Goa old mother.

[49:53] Music.

[50:05] Got you red-handed, my friend. Maybe. Explain. My vessel comes in anticipation of our victory in Triad. It is merely coming to take us along. Let's just take a Stargate like the rest of us. Not that it is of your concern, but there is no Shrappa Eye where we are going. Well, then gate to where there is one and get picked up. Your Eminence, if our intentions were hostile, we would have attacked all... Where we're going we don't need a Chapa'i sorry hey Jeff Jeff it's Chapa'i Chapa'i Chapa'i we're going we don't need a Chapa'i.

[50:53] Even so your ship's arrival is premature and in violation of Tolan space we're all violating things here Come on. before the conclusion of Triad. Our automated defense system will destroy it. The Goa'uld rest our case and we are prepared to vote. Therefore, Triad is over. Triad is over when all parties agree, Lord Zapakna. Do the human archons have any further arguments? Nope. I think the Gould made our case for us quite nicely. No further arguments, Reminence. We are prepared to vote. Nox, Archon? Yes. Then bring in the Seekers.

[51:52] Music. Chlorell and Skara, you can both hear the Triads ruling? Yes, you, Eminence. I turn Human Who controls The changing They both do right I guess We find in favor of Skara, Go out.

[52:13] Some interesting guard outfits they've got going on there.

[52:51] Music.

[53:13] After careful consideration, I believe that both Klaurel and Skara have the right to live. But living as a host with no will of one's own is not life. Therefore, only one may remain in the body. To that end, I award priority to the original owner of the body, Skara. Yes. Now get that mothership out of here. Fire! Fire! To come to Torlana to assist in the removal of the Goa Uld Chlorell. He will be removed from the host. And if he survives, will be sent to the Goa Uld world of his choice. How are they going to ask him? Yeah. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

[54:05] I have locked the detachment device. Skara, you have priority control until the Goa world is removed. Prepare yourself. The Tok'ra will arrive as soon as possible. And congratulations. Thank you. It's kind of weird they can just call the Tok'ra who live in Haiti. Godzipakna. Right. You are dismissed. With our thanks. And you can leave quickly. Your mothership is conveniently already here. Right.

[54:45] We'll talk. We'll talk.

[54:51] Music.

[54:59] Cake right there right let's go, scar wait here just trust me how's that superior technology looking now security system serving you pretty good is it uh-oh the ion cannons got a dead lock on.

[55:20] Music. Colonel! Cover! I must inform Travelle. She's keeping the illusion going. That's the least of our... Where have you been? I must inform you, O'Neal, that I have disregarded your orders considering the Goa'u. Please explain. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha. So their little, like, invisibility thing is also a transporter. It's crazy. I have a feeling it's going to be plot. Oh, we need it to do this. You hid one of them. That is correct. Travelle explained it would take but one of these to destroy a gold mothership.

[55:24] All of them you know i hate when people waste my time like this. Where's Teal?

[56:35] Music.

[56:40] Well, it hasn't. Let's take cover, man. Silk gets to get in and shoot it. I honestly don't remember how this ends right now. Oh, there you go.

[57:16] Dude look at this shot right like for a television show like we always talked about that on babylon five like just the the graphics they had for back then i mean that's, spent a lot of money this season on stuff a couple weeks ago with the two-parter, very nice they blew up three gold motherships in this episode, and showed all of them and they took a scene from return of the jedi you disregarded my warnings, mine too well done if you were my subject i would be forced to discipline you however i welcome your discipline you are not one of my subjects it could not have been done without the assistance of lyre, She's also not one of my subjects.

[58:13] How's that hair? Split it right down the middle. Yeah, at least she admits it. We basically saved your whole planet, right? Yes. Are you therefore indebted to us in any modest way? I suppose that is the case so how about giving us the plans to build one of those ion cannons you have been told our policy that has not changed, the uh tocraft completed the procedure yeah that's chlorelle what will become of chlorelle he will be sent to a go old world to hell with him.

[59:03] Music. Ha, ha, ha. I like how how scara and uh sam are hugging right there, they don't know each other yeah whole time sam's been around it's been chlorelle yeah right all right she's just i have a she's a new friend like that's it well i have a i have a question and i think i already have the answer when we get into the discussion that might kind of explain, my theory on why they're hugging.

[59:11] Much better Ha, ha, ha, ha.

[1:00:00] I gotta tell you jeff this is this one is gonna be a doozy for me yeah oh yeah it's yeah so anyway with that before we dive in in this patreon you can watch this there is a clear um my body my choice pro-choice pro-life allegory in this thing that i strongly recommend we stay 10 000 light years away from yes okay um that is that is in no way shape or form any interpretation i ever got out of this episode really yeah yep that's an interesting argument um so jeff i have a personal policy um for issues that i have no experience with i just simply don't discuss because how can i how can i tell a woman what is right or wrong with her body and what is right or wrong i've never carried a baby you know what i mean absolutely i've i you know i um we certainly could get into a big discussion on when life is life which is what this episode is but uh i'm not that's not the discussion okay good that i think this episode is having and i'm a thousand percent with you that that is not anywhere near where i'm trying to go and that is that is with it that's.

[1:01:26] Not to say i'm scared to tackle the topic it is not within the scope of what.

[1:01:30] This show is about i i agree also i just don't into your earlier point i don't think it's appropriate for.

[1:01:36] Yeah two middle-aged white dudes to tackle especially if we don't have we could talk Talk about it, Jeff, if we had a female here to discuss that. Yeah. Or if one of us were a doctor or had any level of qualification at all, we'd have none of those things.

[1:01:58] So I just wanted to hear for Patreon specifically to point out there's a metaphor in this that I pulled out. There it is. You heard that it's there. This is the end of that discussion. For the record, I did not pull that metaphor.

[1:02:10] I totally did. It's cool. At one point, I thought that's where the episode was going. You know, it's an interesting thing. Okay, a little behind the scenes for Patreon. It's an interesting thing, Jeff. When you and I sit down and we say we're going to go look for these messages, the caveat there is the messages we find. One of the things i love i love in comments is when people say here's a message that i found and it has nothing to do with anything that you or i ever discussed you know what i mean it's like they're bringing a whole new thing i'm like that's amazing the ones that get on my nerves are when people like attack us for not getting that message like because people go too far with that you know it's like dude i i am in no way shape or form sitting here saying i am giving you the complete definitive here's everything that could possibly come out of this episode i'm giving you what i got yeah we're also not giving you what the writer intended or anything we're giving you our impression of what it appears they intended that's yeah that's it that's it yeah jeff there was at least three episodes i can think off the top of my head when we were doing babylon five.

[1:03:17] Where you and i would go here's this message here's this thing that we pulled out of it and And I don't think that's what JMS was intending to say. And we would actually lower its rating, whether it was the White Stars or the Delta Furies or whatever we were looking at. And in the comments somewhere we go, you know, it's interesting you say that because that's exactly what he intended to do. And he has said that. And here's where they said it. I was like, I kind of love the fact that I got that wrong. Yeah.

[1:03:44] Okay. That means he did it really, really well. He did his job very, very well. Because I didn't think that's where he was going with it. but i could be wrong i that's always on the table like sometimes not always but you know sometimes yeah yeah all right let's talk about this thing okay jeff we have just got done watching this episode pretense i told you last week jeff that it wouldn't be until you saw the episode that you.

[1:04:14] So now I put it to you. Do you understand what pretense was about? And take us through your first time watch. Was it good? I personally love this episode. I watched this episode a lot. I love this episode. But I've seen it 47 times. How about you as a first watch? Is it any good? People give Star Trek a lot of credit for really nailing court episodes, right? You've got Measure of a Man. You got that one they did in Strange New Worlds that was really well done. A whole bunch of other ones. They do court episodes. The one in lower decks was phenomenal. It was so good. It was so funny to the big, the big horn.

[1:04:54] And then it was actually like for a fun thing or whatever. It was like a surprise party or something. So awesome. But I think, I think that in that shadow, the mighty shadow that star Trek casts huge beaming things like this episode, But SG-1 don't get a chance necessarily to shine out in the geek vernacular. This was an amazing court episode. I loved so much about this one. And here's where I think it exceeds a lot of the other court episodes as well, is it had some really good action in it as well that was entirely unexpected.

[1:05:31] You have the big explosion in the beginning, the two motherships getting blowed up while Scarra Chlorelle is flying down really, really slowly in a death glider. And then Crash is like, oh, okay, so that's just setting this stuff up. And then you have kind of the side B story of them painting the ion cannons. And it's like, oh, okay, they're doing this. Maybe there'll be a little attack or whatever. But then the whole climax isn't the rendering of the verdict. The climax is the actual attack. And for me, I saw the attack coming, but I didn't see that being the pinnacle of the episode. The way they handled the court aspect of this was brilliant. I think the, um, I hope that we get some more of Lord Zipakna. I liked him. He is a, is a good advocate or good, uh, good, um, archon, good archon. Yeah. Hey, can we talk about him real quick? Yeah. Lord Zipakna. Hey, let's roll out our God goddess check.

[1:06:34] So Zipakna is a real, um, God of the ancient world. He's a Mayan God. He is often depicted as a large caiman, which is an alligator type creature. Looks almost indistinguishable from an alligator. I don't know what the difference is. I'm not a zoologist.

[1:06:54] But he is the demonic personification of the Earth's crust.

[1:07:00] Wow. He is the brother of the Mayan God Earthquake.

[1:07:04] Oh, OK. okay so you know i guess an earthquake is those two tumble it tumble it i don't know what it is but uh yeah he he is not a good guy he's very tricky he's very messes with people and not a good way uh kind of kind of a god so that is um a little bit of real world history on zapachna that's cool explains his outfit explains the outfit quite a bit my yeah which It's a little weird, but you know, it's, it's, it's for them. That's perfect. And it's awesome. I had the chance to tour the Mayan ruins many, many years ago and in the Yucatan Peninsula, if you ever had the chance, it's quite an experience.

[1:07:42] And, uh, yeah, that's, that's cool. But he is real. And we saw that's what he was doing in this episode. He was messing with people, but doing so in like a legal framework. Yeah. It was done really, really well. He made compelling arguments, made sense. Think about, think about what you just said there, Jeff. he made compelling arguments as to why a gold is within his rights to take a human host we as humans and sci-fi is guilty of this for apparent reasons we're humans telling human stories that's what sci-fi is about but we put ourselves at the top of everything right the top of the food chain the top evolutionarily everything this episode basically came in and said what if you're not the top of that? What if we, as the go old are on top of you? And so we get the way you treat the things you see is lower. We get to treat you that way.

[1:08:35] Maybe if we could understand the language of horses or trees or anything, they'd be telling us, yeah, stop, get off, get off of me. This hurts. I hate it. And it's humiliating. It hurts when you chop me down. Or they would say. Would you please get back on so I can do this? Because I love doing this with you. I like being able to help you out. This is so much fun. I like racing.

[1:09:00] I'll tell you what. If you've ever been around thoroughbred horses, those horses know what they're doing when they're out there racing. They're not just chasing a rabbit running around on a rail. They know they're in a race. They're looking at the other horses. They know what's up. I promise you. If I ever heard a horse speak, no, I haven't. But I'm telling you, they, they know, Mr. Ed was not a thoroughbred. So no, he was not. No, he was not. Um, but you know, maybe the trees would be like the giving tree, like here, take my stuff. This is for you. Or maybe they'd be like, ouch, stop, please. Stop it. Um, I'm trying to breathe. Giving tree, by the way, such an incredible book. Incredible. Like if you read that book and you don't tear up a little bit, I'm sorry. Like it's just so, it's so powerful. Yeah. Hey, by the way, can I can I throw a juxtaposition out at you with that? Of course. So you talk about what if the gold are actually on top of humans and the humans now now get to speak.

[1:10:03] Do the toll and not also treat humans the exact same way? How do you mean? We don't share our technology with lesser developed people. So I think there's a difference in not sharing the technology and enslaving you. Yes, but do or do not the Toland still consider themselves superior to Earthlings? Absolutely. But I think it's a different type of superior. So I, so I am superior to, I am technologically superior to, I don't know, somebody in the deep reaches of the Amazon in Brazil or something like that. So I am superior to that person technologically. I don't see myself as superior to them in any form of hierarchy that would allow me to take advantage of them. And I think that's the argument that Zepakna was making was that you see yourself as above all these animals, these beasts of burden. And as a result, you take advantage of them. We see humans that way. And so we take advantage of you. You happen to have speech. Good for you.

[1:11:11] We're still superior to you. But with that, I'm not sharing technology. 100% the toll on our Star Trek in SG one prime directive. I have never thought about that before, Jeff. But you said that three or four times throughout the course of this episode. And I went, yeah, you walk onto Talana. It's like, hey, I'm in the Federation. Did it not look like Starfleet headquarters in San Francisco?

[1:11:34] 100%. Like it was, it's why this has to have been intentional because I think what they even did is they took the ideal of Starfleet, the Federation and ramped it up a notch. Right. Because what do we see throughout Star Trek is, you know, those damn Klingons, you know, I can never forgive them for the death of my son. We see Jack O'Neill, right, in a lot of the stuff in there of, you know, hey, I'm here to do good stuff. Also, automatically, these people are bad. They take it up a step with the Tolan where, yeah, he's going old, tried to attack us. Also, it breaks my heart that we had to attack and kill them. It's the most horrible thing. Well, we defended ourselves, and they resulted in their deaths. We told them not to come. We told them not to do that, and they did it anyway. And now I feel bad. And what does that say about their value system and how they value life, life, life and how they respect life as well? Because what we see is we see three very different parties in the gold and Zepakna and the SG one team is humans. And then Laya, the Knox who shows up and I tell you, anytime the Knox show up, that knocks the episode up a Knox or two.

[1:12:50] See what I did? Yeah. See what you did there. but it really does. I just, there's such a fascinating, like the toll into me now they're cool. They're fascinating still, but they are star Trek. The knocks are still kind of mysterious and, uh, and, and just interesting to me, but they had these three very different, groups show up and people they treated them all with the same level of dignity the same level of respect when lia showed up she didn't get like red carpet and all the stuff but she got treated, very well and very respectfully now i have a question and the two motherships that blowed up early in the episode i feel like i heard this but i want to confirm that her her was on one of the motherships and he dead now is that what i heard it was his motherships who were coming after them he was not necessarily on board one of them he owns more it's like we own more than one aircraft carrier as a navy you know uh slash mothership okay it's just just other ships two of his forces okay so i wanted to wanted to be clear on that because i felt like if they just killed him that kind of just flew by real fast and didn't get any attention at the end of the episode.

[1:14:07] You made a an observation and at the same time i was marking down a question and i think i remember the answer to this but i'm not sure you made the observation that scarra ran up to hug sam, they don't know each other sam has only known scarra as clorelle whole time so it's interesting they're hugging you said hey they're new friends and that's great they're happy to see each other I wonder, is Scarra going to have any of Chlorelle's memories, emotions? Is there any part of Chlorelle that's left in Scarra? Now, if I remember right with Jolinar, some of that happened because Jolinar died in Sam. So there was like... And absorbed into Sam. Yeah. And so that's why she has it. But to the level that she does, I'm curious if there's any bit of Chlorelle that's left in Scarra or if it's a clean break. And that's why I thought maybe they were hugging because they're like.

[1:15:03] We're blenders like we we both was blended and so we got we got that yeah those two and then that girl kendra from the thor's hammer planet yeah i mean power seems to be all about these uh people getting the the golds pulled out of them right right uh put a pin in that idea jeff it'll be a very long time but eventually we can i'm not going to say we're going to answer that question but we will be able to address it with a little more information but i will also say do remember one thing scar is going to go through with all of this he's going to need some therapy a little as he remembers everything every so even if he doesn't retain the.

[1:15:46] Knowledge of the gold and the memories of the gold he does at least retain the knowledge that he gained while he was serving as host to chlorelle and whatever gets left behind in scars on mine because the host does survive which brings up some interesting questions when we talk about the harcesis and how the harcesis his whole thing wow harcesis his whole thing i hope i've got a de-esser on this thing that probably sounded terrible otherwise but the whole thing is that knows everything of all the gould of all time right but here we have one who hung out with apophis got some real firsthand stuff and he was just watching scar was watching the whole thing i wonder if he knows where keb is yeah do you think um the pentagon might be interested in having a conversation with scar a couple maybe one or two conversations yeah i don't think jack's gonna give him over but you know whatever right but might be a might be a thing they have to work through i found it interesting that they They called the Tok'ra to pull Chlorelle out of Scarra for a couple of reasons. One was.

[1:16:54] Aren't the tokra like in hiding and they just like 1-800 the tokra hey we got the the guy here also i found it interesting the tokra have technology to extract a gold from a host but the tolan don't well the the the tokra that's their thing like they are gold so to speak.

[1:17:18] You know so the tollen made a whole thing so that you could have the host and the symbiote talk okay do you get the idea that they just made that for this situation like they just whipped it up real quick or is this something that they've had the designs and plans on and that's been chilling in a vault somewhere for a while that was the impression i got was like yeah we have this technology that does this thing so we just did it i think i've always thought about it that way is they've just always had it until i watched this episode and i remember thinking like during the course of this episode going did they just do they mean they just created that like right now, i've never considered that before okay we need this thing poof there it is yet they still don't have a way to extract the symbiote from from a host it's a much more delicate process i guess apparently i mean it's just plot but also also what you learn from that though is the tolan the nox and the tokra the tokra are at least in communication with each other and have open doors of communication um is anybody else included in that list right it's interesting to me too let's go down because this the nox are one of the uh.

[1:18:32] The four races the now soon to be five five races right i was just wondering if you knew who the four races were so yeah because they named them out right yeah yeah yeah there's the knox there's the asgard there's the um i forget there's one they mentioned that they had some weird name we haven't seen them yeah we well we haven't seen the other two yet okay they named they named all i'm not gonna tell you if we're ever gonna see them or not either okay there's one I just remember one of them. I was like, oh, I don't remember that one. There's the Furlings. Furlings! That's the one I was thinking of. Yeah. And then who's the fourth one? Do you remember? Oh, the Ancients. Those were the builders of the Stargate. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the four. I find it kind of interesting, though, that the Tolan... Uh-huh. Well, maybe they're not quite, but they seem like they're all in touch, right? So they said humanity is going to be the fifth race. Where do the Tolan figure into that? Because they seem to be pretty advanced. I just always figured that the Tolan are some offshoot of humanity that freed themselves from gold rule or got like, or whatever.

[1:19:38] And they just advanced way faster than we did here on earth. Okay. Like, I don't, I don't see the Tolan as physically different than humans. So it's almost like there's humans are physically different. It's like there's the humans and you have like a Canadian human and an American human. Here you have humans, and you have an Earth human and a Tolan human. That's my impression. I can't say, you know, like, obviously the Asgard are a completely different race. Very much so. You would assume the furlings are a completely different race. You would assume the ancients, whatever they are, is a completely different race. Yeah, that makes sense. We, Brent, need to update our tracking board. We do. Do we have any trackings to update for today? I didn't get any for crying out loud. No, indeed. We had a conversation about Sam and her boyfriends. I will say, there was one part where Jack went, oh, please. Which was, for crying out loud, it was the exact same intonation. It was the exact same thing. But he didn't say the words. And he chose not to do it. Yeah. Conscious choice.

[1:20:44] Got to say the words. I am shocked at how little we have updated this tracking board this season. Season three has not had a lot at all. It's disappointing. No, no. I think, though, if we were tracking Wizard of Oz references, there's been a couple of those. There's been several of those, yeah. Simpsons references, you know, they come in a bunch and, yeah. Yeah.

[1:21:09] One of the big notes that I have on this I'm going to hand over to you is all of the many themes that were covered in this episode in great depth and detail. I spent a lot longer talking about my first time reactions to this than I planned. We have a lot to talk about in this next section. Brent, why don't you start talking about the sci-fi messages we pulled. And when we get through those, you're going to rate that this episode on a scale of zero to seven chevrons as to how strong those messages were. You know, Jeff, there is an art to picking out these messages. Yep.

[1:21:46] We have sort of developed a litmus test that we use about the sci-fi messages. Is it a hope for a better future, a mirror to society, or does it tell us how to be better human beings to one another? That's not to say that those are the only types of sci-fi messages that get put out there. Yeah. I think this one expands that on some other levels. Jeff, this, I have, I have so many notes on this particular section, but what I'm realizing is this is still a Catherine powers episode. And what Catherine powers does is she presents issues. She puts issues out there. She doesn't tend to discuss them. And then they tend to not really go anywhere. Right. It's just kind of, huh? But what she did in this episode was she put so many of them in there.

[1:22:47] And then didn't discuss them.

[1:22:50] You know, hey, you and animals, you use animals. Do you do this thing with animals? Well, we decide that we're bigger than animals than you are. And then we didn't hear anything else about it for the rest of the episode. It's a phenomenal idea. You're like, oh, my God, like, oh, what means what says that we're higher than animals? Where do we go with that? How does how do we how do we treat our animals?

[1:23:13] Are we treating our animals with respect and and and with gratitude? But we are still using them as beasts of burden and as food and as as are we treating them as lower class lower than beings than what we ourselves are there's there's such a thing i think that we're being talked about here with arrogance what is your arrogance as top of the food chain the toll and arrogance almost was their undoing 100 there's no way that they're going to get past our eye on cannons there's impossible they can do it's impenetrable alloys there's painting they're never before they could do that they could well yeah they could try to come all out at once that's never gonna happen how's your arrogance hey how's our arrogance as a country you know do we really care are we really going to take anybody out whoever comes in and tests us what is our arrogance to um we hit a really good example when i talk about hope for the future you talk about the tollen being star trek and stargate.

[1:24:20] Can we as a society get to a spot? We just got a really good, clear example of a society that has gotten past the need for war, but they're still able to defend themselves if they need to. They seem to have gotten in a let's just assume that that's what it is, because it certainly presents itself as this is a planet that does not have poverty. This is a planet that does not go without. This is a planet that has plenty of resources for all of its population. This is a planet where everybody seems super chill. I mean, Nareem is about as chill as you're going to get, you know?

[1:24:56] I know when he comes in, when the Gould are starting to attack, he just walks in. Yeah. You should probably look at this thing on your view screen. Just check it out. That's like his level of excitement goes up to four, you know? See, even having such respect and such regard for life, that killing even in your own defense is sickening to you. Oh, wait, I'm sorry to have such respect for life that you could look at a creature such as the gold and go, maybe it has a point. Let's hear it out and actually hold that and not just summarily dismiss it for what it is. They showed us that. Did they discuss it? Did they go anywhere with it? Did they lead us to any one conclusion or the other? Not really. There's also this other one. The Gould convinced themselves, and I do want to dive into this one just for a second. The Gould convinced themselves. They make them feel better about what they do.

[1:25:56] By lying to themselves, nothing of the host remains, nothing of the host remains. Well, what does that, that's just a remnant. That's not the host. Even when it's staring you in the face, even when it's having a conversation. Yeah, that's not really the host. Nothing of the host remains. What about your host?

[1:26:12] Nothing. When he's looked at Zipog and said, is your host in there somewhere? He goes, no, nothing of the host remains, right? This particular idea reminds me of what i think is probably jeff the single most important podcast episode i have ever recorded in my life was for the show beam me up a star trek podcast i did it was on the episode far beyond the stars uh where and it's the only episode where matt was with me when we had a guest on yeah it's the only episode you've heard that episode many times actually and.

[1:26:49] And just to be clear while the episode of star trek far beyond the stars is a great episode and a powerful episode you're talking about the podcast episode i am talking about you the the beam me up a star trek podcast the episode for that one and and the reason for that is is i had a friend of mine on jessica uh who is a black female who discussed in really clear depth and And Matt and I were able just to sit back and go, here, you go. I don't have to put words in your mouth. And she did such a great, eloquent job in a respectful way of addressing things. And one of Jessica's stories, and I encourage everybody to go listen to that episode, not because I need more download numbers. I literally think everybody should hear this one episode, if nothing else. Agreed. But she talks about, and I was there for this. I, I personally witnessed this one. Okay.

[1:27:46] In, in other ways, cause her daughter was staying with us while this was going on when she was giving birth to her son, her, her second born, her son, she almost died. And the reason she almost died is because the doctors did not believe her when she talked about a pain that she was having that was abnormal. Okay. And she began to illustrate how it, like, it literally took her husband going in and getting somebody else and bringing somebody in who finally listened and how the idea. And this is very sickening to me, and it has been confirmed, but there are physician texts that teach that black people have a much higher pain tolerance and feel pain in a different way or much lower, whichever direction it goes. But they feel pain in a different way than what white people do.

[1:28:47] And so you can do things to them and it doesn't really matter. Okay, let's rewind the issue of slavery. And I want to be clear. I'm not just talking about American slavery. I'm going to talk about slavery throughout all of history across the entire world. And that includes slavery that's going on today. The only way that you can enslave another human being is if you determine that that person is lower than you are. By what evidence? No evidence. You just lie to yourself and you tell yourself that person is lower than I am. It is the only way. I believe it's something smaller brains. They're not as developed.

[1:29:29] They can handle the stress of slavery and working in the fields, that type of slavery, because they're basically beasts of burden. They're animals. They can handle it. It's not that big of a deal to them. They don't feel heat the same way. They don't burn the same way. So they can go do that. We're higher on the food chain. It's our destiny. You know, every, every argument you're making though is exactly what Zipakno is saying about humans. Like this is, this, this isn't like just, Oh, I'm going to like loosely relate these things beat for beats. The Pacman is like, You don't, you're not as smart. You're not as this, you're not as that. So you don't experience things the same and you, there's nothing left of you. This is a beat for beat dead on comparison. That's disgusting. And then you get this idea that gets thrown in there is life of a slave, really life at all that they address because they actually did go to that one. All of those things jeff i i talk about this this is an episode where it has all of these.

[1:30:32] Great star trek ideas right the the great sci-fi messages that it's just doing but it's like instead of like picking one and just a cannon shot to the heart it's just i'm picking up all these little pebbles i'm just gonna throw them at you and they're all gonna hit yeah every single one of them is gonna hit but we're not gonna do much with them this episode though jeff at the end of the day it all leads to one question what makes an individual an individual what makes a human a human what gives a person humanity this episode jeff in my opinion is stargate's measure of a man yeah except what we don't get is somebody sitting there saying this was we were created to Seek out new life. Well, there it sits. We don't get the, this is the right answer. I kind of like it that way. Yeah. So how do I rank this? I'm sorry. How do I rate this scale of zero to seven chevrons? Jeff. Yeah. I'm not even going to, we have to talk about intentionality because we always do. Okay. It's there. Yeah. That's the point of the episode. This is a Catherine powers episode. This is how she writes her episodes. Right?

[1:31:46] So, okay. Where do we, can I give it seven? I can't because it didn't, none of these questions did it really discuss and, and really look at, but there were so many and they're all great. And if all, how long have I been talking about this Jeff now for 15 minutes, almost 10 minutes. Oh my gosh. And if, if you and I were to actually have a discussion on any one of these where there's, we'll go for another hour. Right. So I don't know that I can give it seven because it didn't really discuss it, but it threw so many out there. It is. I don't know how I go much lower than five. So do I meet it in the middle and say six? I i think that's what i gotta do i gotta go six chevrons on this one jeff even though it didn't really discuss them it threw them out there it did have some things they did have some discussion don't don't get me wrong but it didn't like really turn over we just we hit it we hit it we talked about we moved on but they were all questions about one central idea what is humanity what made scara worthy of an on an equal level with clorell what makes him have agency and ownership of the body in fact to further that what this essentially said was the body is completely ancillary to the being there's the being of scara the being of clorell and one of them gets this.

[1:33:11] Body that happens to be here i mean it's interesting what was the very first argument zapachny used go old law oh yeah it was my slave therefore he was my property i was just doing what i want to do with my property you can't tell me what to do my property that's my property yeah.

[1:33:27] It went it started there and then it went to all the other stuff we've already discussed so i yeah i'm gonna give this six chevrons jeff i think that makes a lot of sense because one it's just sheer volume right sheer volume of everything that came through but you i you uh yeah i think six is good well a whole had a whole thing i was going to go down but we don't need to go there so well on the back of that i just rated the episode but jeff you get to rank the episode you get to take this episode you get to place it in our 100 completely accurate and definitive ranking of season three of stargate sg1 jeff our current top five let's go through that is joel and our memories and the devil you know we've combined them into one episode because that's what they were number two is forever and a date number three is fair game number four is foothold from last week number five is learning curve jeff i ask you does this crack the top five and if so where And if not still where it absolutely does. And this is one, a lot of times when we have episodes that have big messages to them and really puts it out there, a thing we've said quite a bit is incredible episode, incredible message. And I never want to watch it again. I think of cold Lazarus, right? Where it's like, wow, that hit me. Boom. And I'm not, I'm not going to watch it again.

[1:34:53] This is a episode with so many messages. And some of them, it dives into, to, And I'm dying to watch this one again. Not as much as Foothold. Like, I don't have that. I'm not going to run out of here and watch that one again. But I'm going to watch this episode again. This will not be a skip for me. I am going to make this, Brent, our new number four episode, dropping Foothold to number five. Wow. All right. All right. I think it's low, but that's okay. You think it should be higher? I do. Really? It's episode a lot. It's a really good episode. But I mean, look, look at these, the top three that we, it's not going to be number one. Like there's enough, like there's number one here. And then number two, I don't know about that. I don't know. I will say Joel and her memories in double, you know, was definitely a spectacle. Yes. But I got to be honest. It's not an episode. I love to go back to. It's not an episode. I ever go. Let's go watch these episodes.

[1:35:51] I honestly, neither is forever in a day, but forever in a day is so poignant, you know, fair game fair game is a great one but you know i'm frankly i'm going to this grouping of episodes right here this pretense foothold a couple of the other ones coming up i'm not gonna tell you which ones like this back half of season three to me is pretty stellar okay and we're just getting started on it so that being said jeff it's time to move on with the back half of season three because this is going to put a bow on pretense jeff would you like to know we're watching next time here on stargate sg1 for the first time absolutely i love the title for this episode ergo ergo yes jeff good luck ergo you are geo one word ergo you are geo you are geo i am.

[1:36:49] I i was gonna do a whole i was like oh ergo uh their chairs are hurting their backs and they need wrist rests for their their mouses but with a u um uh ergo is gonna be some dude's name uh they're gonna end up on uh i don't know a ship like i'm thinking like a boat on the water, some transit thing and there's going to be some dude named ergo who's going to they get lost and they end up on a boat and ergo captain ergo or whatever is going to help them sail the seas and they're going to fight a whale while they're at it and all that sort of stuff chase it down that's the whole episode they're gonna be looking trying to he's like ah i'm gonna get that whale you can call me ishmael but i go by ergo there you go so it's a water episode that's what we're, All right. Well, there you go. You're not a good guesser, Jeff.

[1:37:44] What do you say with a real word? I told you. Good luck. All right. Well, we will see exactly what happens here next time on Stargate SG one for the first time. Guys, make sure you definitely want to come back next week and find out if Jeff is right. Is it a water episode or not? Thank you guys so much for joining us here this week. Hey, listen, wherever you're getting the show, please don't forget to subscribe. Could be a pod catcher could be an audio listener could be out there on youtube uh could be out there on audible pod chaser any of those sorts of places please subscribe to this show please leave us a rating and review and the biggest thing you could do for us is share this show with someone whom you know who loves stargate sg1 or who needs to get into the gate for the first time so for my buddy jeff over there my name is brent and we're gonna sign off what's up jeff How many go old does it take to attack an advanced world? I don't know, Jeff. How many goal does it take to attack an advanced world? A gaggle of Goulds crying out loud.

[1:38:52] Music.