Shades of Grey

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Shades of Grey - Season 3, Episode 18

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Transcript

[0:35] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time. And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time. But for the first time, I am looking for what Stargate is trying to teach us. You know, those lessons that sci-fi does so well, where they hold up a mirror to society, They give us hope that things can be better in the future or just tell us how to be better human beings to one another. Maybe we'll get some of that as we watch the 18th, 18th episode. Brett, we're heading down the home stretch of season three right now. Already. We're watching Shades of Grey this week. You gave me the hint that this one is going to have a returning character in it. And so I really had no idea what this was going to be about. So my prediction literally is this will be the return of the Broca Divide people like Tupelo and the Minoan people. And there'll be something shades of grayish that they do. I do. I don't I don't remember the exact word that I used last time, but I definitely said that this this would feature a return that you're not expecting. Yes.

[1:47] Something like a return that you're not expecting. Well, I'm certainly not expecting to see Tupelo. So that's my guess. That's my you are. So, uh, yeah, as you mentioned, this is the 18th episode of season three shades of gray original air date, February 11th year, 2000, this episode here, 2000.

[2:07] Well, what we know is, is SG one survived Y2K. We're all grateful for that. And here we go. This episode is written by Jonathan Glasner, directed by Martin Wood. Um, couple, a couple notes on this specifically with Jonathan Glasner. This is the final episode of SG one that he will pin. Now jonathan glasner is notable because he is executive producer and co-creator of the show oh okay with brad wright so he's been around yeah he's kind of a big deal he's a guy yeah yeah um, Actually, it turns out here at the end of the season, he is going to step back from his role as executive producer. Of course, he'll always be co-creator, but he will step back from his role as executive producer. He's going to go on and start working on another show called Invisible Man. Have you ever heard of that show? No, because it completely failed and didn't do anything. So as the guy said at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, he chose poorly.

[3:00] Of course, Glasner, as most people do when they're at this level, he will continue on as a creative consultant or executive. Consultant for the entire run of sg1 which i think just basically means we can call you up when we need an idea but for the most part he's just sort of out of it but this will be his final episode one that he has written this episode is also directed by martin wood uh we'll keep an eye out so if you remember about martin wood i gave you something fun that he likes to do in his episodes which is he likes to show up have a cameo nope that's that's what he does like to show up and have a cameo uh peter delouise is like that too but he does something different with his cameos He has a big wrench, a big, huge honking wrench. Usually he's with Sergeant Siler, who is the maintenance guy there and the stunt coordinator for the show.

[3:46] I don't know where that's we're getting close to where that starts. Okay, so we'll keep an eye out. I'm not sure if it's this episode or maybe the next or the next, but we're really, really close to Martin Wood to start to use these things where it's going to become a fun thing to check in and see if we can't find. So we'll keep an eye out for that. by the way i don't think i've ever mentioned he he actually has dubbed that as a character big wrench guy yeah the big wrench guy really character's name is because it's a military installation his name is major wood yeah yep well done yep well done yes.

[4:22] Uh well with that jeff it is time for us to go watch this episode hey listen if you guys are out there joining us for the very first time first of all welcome you are amazing we love you you're awesome we love everybody that comes and joins us here at stargate sg1 for the first time here at the buy nerds network are we a network jeff sure a network of two whatever the umbrella of stuff that we got going on here uh the way this works is jeff and i are going to go watch this episode right now we have not watched this episode prior and came in with a bunch of notes ready to go no we're going to do it right now if you're hanging out with us on youtube hang out because you're going to catch the reaction jeff and i are going to watch it you'll see the reaction to this episode is the shades of gray hey listen if you want to get the full unedited version of that reaction head over to patreon.com where you can find that plus all the other stuff that jeff and i have going on there's a lot happening over there but you can do that at patreon.com slash bye nerds if you're listening on a podcasting app you're about to join us on the other side of the episode i'm going to share my first time reaction brent will go over the sci-fi messages that he found so brent let's go ahead and turn some lights on these shades of gray.

[5:49] I was just going to say, are they back with the Tolan? It's the Romulan college campus. Well, in that spirit, we'd like to arrange for a trade. What would you like to trade? Technology. I'm sorry. We're in a suit and everything. You know that is the one thing we cannot give you. Tolan law strictly forbids it. What are those ion cannons would be nice. I see. And for what will you use such a cannon? To defend ourselves against the Gould. Forgive me, Colonel, but our research shows that you are far more likely to use our technology against enemies on your own planet. She's not wrong at all. I gave you my word, that would never happen. Are you the commander of your entire nation? No. Touché. Then in truth, you cannot guarantee it. Know what? Forget it. We knew you wouldn't give us anything. Let's go. We're trying a new tactic right now. Well, what are you doing? Tilk's too good for a tie. We never should have saved their technologically superior...

[6:53] Disable our weapons with isn't it as well as the gold technology don't even think about it sir isn't against regulations i suppose it is carter he's gonna take it let's go, shut up daniel didn't the tolan just a week ago uh start sending a ship to save him like they went to help him out and now he's like stealing stuff oh you know and is that an overreaction like i get it right he's upset he's frustrated but to go from like well this sucks to i'm stealing stuff i mean he's been asking for this stuff and ever since they first met omak and they're like yeah you guys are primitive he's been very touchy about the idea that they're not willing to share and you know frankly earth is very willing to share its technology with other civilizations so they still haven't heard of the prime directive yet or believe in it or understand its purpose and you know uh but she is tell me one thing she was wrong about in anything she said Absolutely nothing. She hit it right on the head. And I kind of feel like Jack should know that. You know, he's like, yeah, you're right. Also, I think it sucks and I disagree. Oh, hey, General, so funny story. They just gave you the device as a reward for saving them from the ghoul? Sort of. From the ghoul? Right. A little stank on that.

[8:14] Offered us a nice fruit basket, though. How did you get the device? Pulled it out of the wall. Major Carter? Nobody's talking. Oh. I took it, sir. There you go, Jack. Yes. They're following the code. You stole it? I like to think of it as borrowed, sir. Tracks? Jackson, Major Carter, and Teal'c, you will return this device immediately to the Tolan, and hopefully smooth over what must be some very ruffled feathers. Our core mission is to go through that gate and find technologies we can use to defend against ghoul incursion. Am I right? You are bordering on insubordination. We do not steal from friendly. With no due respect, General, that's just plain stupid. Colonel. And since the Pentagon won't approve our backup program, we have no choice. Colonel, do not hold that. We have no choice but to take whatever steps we need to get what we need. As long as I am in command of the SGC, we will hold ourselves to the highest ethical stand. And when the Gould wipe us out because we have nothing with which to defend ourselves, I'm sure we'll all feel great about ourselves and our high moral standards. Colonel Neal, you are out of line. Now stand down. This is out of nowhere. It's been bubbling up for a while. I mean, apparently, but I don't remember seeing any sign of it. Colonel O'Neill. To jump this far. I am hereby relieving you of your command. You are to report to the infirmary and stay there until I send for you. Go to your room. No holding cells, sir? That could very well be your next stop if you say another word, Colonel.

[9:41] Now get down to the infirmary and submit yourself for a complete examination. That's the toll I'm coming through. You're not happy. That's the right call by Hammond. There's a whole different version of this where he takes accountability right away and things go differently. But he tripled down on this. So here's my question. Does Jack have a point? Ethical standards not withstanding. I was going to say.

[10:03] The Gould are a very real threat out there. They are an existential threat to our planet. And they have the ability to give us something with which to defend ourselves that we do not have yet and we need to like they could come at any moment i don't have two weeks to wait on them to come over here with their ships i don't have like we need this technology now and if they won't get it to us then you need to do something to take it we we've got to we've got to do what we've got to do to defend ourselves this is an existential moment for us although like the piece the that puzzle that changes things a little bit like this doesn't this isn't real protection but they're in the they have that treaty right the uh the asgard protected worlds treaty protected worlds yeah so like they're not alone and the asgard can show up that fast and are watching i think i think if they were on their own and there had been multiple attempts that weren't just apophis being apophis but like the gold coming after him wouldn't justify it but it would it would strengthen his case a little bit but i mean all the threats that have happened to earth and the sgc in this season pretty much have been through the stargate not big ships coming i mean not really since the end of season one right yeah it happened one time so i think i i i don't i i think i can understand where he's coming from i can't understand the level of his reaction and i i don't think he really has a point all right fair enough and teal you are no longer under Colonel O'Neill's command. Is that understood?

[11:33] Just to make sure we're clear on this.

[11:37] We got people who that iris doesn't matter. Yeah.

[11:41] And the Tolan are one of them. So far, the Tolan and the Nox, they don't care about the iris. They kind of go where they want to go. There you go.

[11:54] You better walk into that gate room with that thing in your hand ready to hit the rock. Don't talk your way out of this. Get out of my way, Teal'c. That's an order. I do not understand your behavior, Neil. Get out of my way. All you can do is order fries at this point. Frazier. Maybe a pizza. Yes, sir. General Hammond wants to see you in his office. Is there anything I can do? About. Did you have something you wanted to say? Yeah. Two thoughts. Okay. Either Jack is under the influence of some alien force or whatever, like he's not himself. Yeah.

[12:28] Given that this is a sci-fi show, that's certainly within the realm. It could be a brain thing. It could literally be a clone thing. Just in some way, he's not in control of what's going on. So that's a possibility. The other one is he's working for somebody else. He's making a conscious choice to do stuff. Where's the third option there, Jeff? He really feels this way. I feel like this is such a zero to 60 reaction from him.

[12:56] I mean we did see in the last episode he was still very salty about the idea that they won't share their tech despite despite all the what will you and i him and haw or him and haw what will you and i he he over with the prime directive like that's really what it is and he just doesn't like the fact he's on the other side of it you know yeah i don't know i just feel i don't know it just it feels like a big leap to me because like when he was giving them a hard time he was still being sarcastic kind of funny jack about the whole thing to jump from that to like getting in hammond's face cartering carter but see here's the thing though and and this may be a little bit of a relative view still not having seen the movie this is kind of how jack was when we met him in the movie oh really i mean he was very i'm i'm here to do what i gotta do you know uh it wasn't until richard dean anderson kind of came in and sort of reinterpreted the the character but he said he's like i've not been myself since i met you yeah like this whole time he's been trying to be something else and no actually this is very much who he is okay uh i'm i'm saying that is possibility three and what he's saying is actually true and how he actually feels or it could be alien control or he could be working for someone else which actually might still be how he really feels true you're a good guesser jeff let's figure out which one's right yeah or option four that we haven't even yeah that there's a reason glasner wrote this whole thing Yeah, I'm going to hit play on it.

[14:22] Yeah. But I still think what I did was right. I just met with two members of the Tolan High Council who disagree. So the Tolan are dictating our policies now.

[14:30] The victims of a crime are demanding that the perpetrator be dealt with appropriately. Because you didn't follow your existing policies. What you've done here is clearly a court-martialable offense. I have to press charges. Well, by all means, General, do what you have to do. I do have one other option I can offer you, Jack. What's that? Early retirement. Whoa! Now, see, I tried that once before, and you pulled me out of it. That's another big leap. The offer is only on the table while you're in this room. All this for one little indiscretion. Yeah, it said the retirement thing was a leap. It's really not like the way he just described it. It is a, you are walking into a conviction. Retirement in lieu of discipline. Have you ever seen Jack's house before? Like the inside of them just kind of hanging out there? Maybe. It looks a little familiar. Well, it looks like the inside of the Brady's house. Like from the Brady Bunch. Yeah. It's always what it reminds me of. How are you feeling about all this? Yes to the beer. no to the feelings said so many men through history, I'm sitting here going I've never pictured Daniel as a beer drinker no.

[15:48] You're hurt because you didn't get a command. Give me a break, Daniel.

[15:52] Their denial of the program was just another indication that they're not serious about attaining our goals. You know, Jeff, I try not to bring this up as frequently as I can, but sometimes I have to, and sometimes it just lends to itself. Back when we were doing Babylon 5, Season 3, probably around Episode 18 or so. Actually, I think it was 11. There's a little episode called Late Delivery from Avalon. Yeah. I had a particular reaction to that episode. You did. You did. The prevailing attitude at the time and still in the comments despite me trying to explain otherwise was you had a thought of how the show would go it didn't go that way and so you acted like a little baby when it didn't go that way we hear that all the time still yes yes and that's not what it was that is you you know it was an objectively objectively bad episode but i was also objectively offensive the way the the episode went agreed i do not have the nostalgia for michael york that so many folks out there have for some reason i'm sorry it was not a good performance to me it just wasn't um i don't have yeah i just i don't have that for him um i thought it was i thought it was awful i thought it was offensive i thought it was was bad storytelling and you guys can all disagree with me out there that's perfectly okay this is brent's opinion but what it was not was it didn't go the way i thought it should go so now i'm acting out i see that same thing with jack here he's saying yeah i was gonna get this base and daniel's like oh well you just.

[17:22] Didn't get the command that you thought you were gonna get and so that's why you're acting out and he goes give me a break that's not it yeah it just showed all this other stuff that i've been bottling up and i'm done i get what jack's saying here on a personal deep level yeah it's been like years now that you've been getting beat up over that thing and i've and i've stopped trying to defend it i'm not re-litigating it but here in a forum where actually i get a chance to speak it out and i don't have to argue with people and listen there are people who are going to hear this right now they're going to roll their eyes they're going to choose not to believe me and that's okay that's on them that's not me but that is where that goes protecting ourselves but isn't our mission also It's also about establishing and maintaining diplomatic relations with other cultures. Good response. What's the point if we don't gain anything to help our other interests? Well, there's a lot we could learn from people like the Tolan that has nothing to do with technology and weapons. That's a short-term gain versus long-term gain. This whole friendship thing we've been working on the last few years is apparently not much of a foundation there, huh? Yeah, it's cold, dude. They were pretty confrontational in the movie, weren't they?

[18:27] Yeah they came to respect each other that's why the whole kleenex thing worked in the children of the gods that's where jack would say stuff like he was a geek sir like it's such a like 25 years ago thing of like who just drops by people's houses somebody's sending a text that's about as much as you're gonna get from me colonel o'neill oh mayburn i think you're gonna want to hear what i have to offer you offer what if i told you i could offer you a way to achieve your goals what if i told you i could arrange for you to lead a team through the gate to acquire whatever you want whenever you want for the good of this country if i believed you could do that i'd have to figure whatever you're doing is very illegal what you did yesterday was very illegal yeah that's get out uninterested interesting response page me when you miss the action too much girl make peace will be joining SG-1 immediately. Well, no offense, but doesn't Major Carter deserve to take charge of SG-1? Major Carter has an exemplary record on the team, as recognized by a recent promotion to Major. But Major is a far cry from Colonel. I understand, General. I'm sorry, I don't. What difference does it make what title she has? Sounds like, stop. It's all right, Daniel. I gotta tell you, Daniel's eyebrows have been freaking me out this whole season. Really? Like this, I mean, they're just, like, they're huge.

[19:50] I'm proud to join you folks. I hope you can learn to trust my command as much as you did Colonel O'Neill's. I never really trusted Jack's command, but I'm open. He trusted Jack. Then I'll see you at our first briefing.

[20:05] Tilk is not happy you could tell by the way he nodded his head and didn't raise his eyebrow till i could tell you the thought that just went through tilk's head right there like if this was the fool that talked to me back in that prison cell i would not have said you are the first i believe could do it i would still be said that to you i'd still be i would still be first prime of apophas i would not have jacked up my family are you interested in my offer or not what does it pay Am I reinstated? What's the chain of command? Like, there's some real logistical questions he should be asking. Mm-hmm. I'm interested. Dude, don't you need to turn on, like, the shower full blast or something? Same. What I'm about to show you is not so much classified as it is secret. Dangerous would be another word I would use. You will have the choice to go along with it or disappear. This is your last chance to back out. Is this the whole conspiracy thing? If you promise to cut back on the mellow draw, from back in, uh... I'll consider crossing the line. Was that episode? Turn, turn?

[21:04] So where are we talking about the one where uh we found out about the whole like bad guy thing and they jumped into the stargate that was horizontal they shot at people don't shoot at them they're our own people i'm not remembering this well like they basically had to go in and attack or try to not attack air force guys you um you have a good memory jeff i do i can't remember Remember the name of the episode. It doesn't matter. You remember the important part. Okay, yeah. It seems like this is going to be tied to that whole thing. I want to retire off-world. Is he going to go back to Lady? Jack, I don't know if I... You remember that woman I told you about on Adora? Yeah! What was her name? Yes. I promised her I'd come back someday. I'm asking you to help me keep that promise. This makes me smile. This is crazy. And please do it fast, because everyone's going to kill me. If I agree to do this, you know I can't give you a GDO. That means you can never return to Earth.

[21:57] You know what he can take? It's a radio. Yeah, it doesn't work. Because it can still transmit. So you can just be like, hey, it's me. On second thought, they can say, sorry, wrong number. All they can do is say no. But you literally can just be like, the battery will last. It'll be fine. Once the battery's gone, hopefully you find out how to work electricity. Not the direction I thought this episode. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, that's a great shot. Yeah. That's a great shot. Like, hey, production people for Stargate, if you're watching this, we could work on that one.

[22:35] Oh. Oh. What just happened, Jeff? I'm like, I'm hurt. Yeah. Because I thought he was going to a door. He's going to do the thing. He's like, I'm going to run away from Mayborn.

[22:49] This whole thing. Go hide on this planet and live with my love. instead he just went and stole stuff from them and is bringing it over to be like hi i'm or he sold it from somebody he used their gate to go somewhere no he just he basically he used he let them send him away so he's gone i'm not even on their stargate to go to this other planet so he didn't even stop to say hi like he just ran hi yeah he ran right to literally turn around just ran back yeah just he just got off world is all he did that makes me sad you know the thing is i don't think hammond should have done this no think about the security threat that jack represents you you have a malcontent military officer who knows literally every single secret of your base yeah it's not there's a there's a huge security threat there that's a really good point i think i mean on top of it it would be a chance for him to put his money where his mouth is hey we need to negotiate we need to be diplomatic blah blah blah hey you can go back to adora after we establish contact i'm up with a couple parameters and you know agree to some things then you can go as opposed to yeah let's just dial you in yeah yeah hey by the way uh why haven't you gone to see her yet it's been a few weeks dude and there's there are a couple things though in the last couple like a couple pieces of this that aren't lining up with recent episodes like one of them i'll talk about when we get there but the last thing he said to mayborn was hey it'd be nice to see you again And then he shows up and he's like, I don't have to take your stuff anymore. Like it's just complete, uh, dropping all of that.

[24:16] Yeah. I don't know. Just little things like that. I will, I will tell you this, Jeff, and you'll understand this reference when I tell you this. Okay. Him saying to Mayborn, Hey, uh.

[24:26] Turns out on this one situation, we worked okay together and I'm not really that pissed at you is not the same thing as best are saying, gee, captain, now your war is my war. Man i just let me dig it in a little bit right alienate everybody yeah why not, and colonel just a reminder this isn't the sgc so if someone gets in your way do what you have to do.

[24:58] Thing looks asgard it is this is an asgard protected planet oh that's probably a big mistake oh no can you imagine the ways we could use this for black ops back on earth yeah but it's not, you're gonna be able to backwards engineer this thing what's their mission to acquire technology to protect themselves from the gold he gets this cool thing and what's he say yeah can you imagine what we would do with this back on earth yeah immediately immediately what was it the the toll on high council lady said some something about using the device on earth you're gonna use it yeah don't have to items this small we just send back to earth how is jack not doing the math like one of the sgt asgard have tagged him tells us where the basically and he just Stop, stop. The mole comes in later, retrieves the item, and packs it back in his gear. They're literally just going to hide it at the DHD. They'll never see me over here. That's our SG-1 buddies. Carter, Dr. Jackson, run your tests. The intel was right about Naquita deposits here. Let me check here under this rock for some Naquita. No. No.

[26:22] You're breathing exactly like Jack is breathing right now. That would have been wild. Dude, they're not that far away from you. You don't need the thing. You can just see.

[26:35] 16 feet away. Right. It's make peace. Wouldn't his pirate team be looking for him or wondering where he is by this point he's there for a long time he literally had to wait till they completed their mission which was probably hours yeah it was a full episode usually oh no oh you don't like how their eyes don't blink at the same time it's creepy very alien it's good how'd it go sir mayborn had the coordinates right but His timing sucked. I just about ran into the SG team on my way back through the gate. The Asgard are attacking. That's what's going on. Sir, sir, we do not open the gate without direct orders from Little Mania.

[27:24] A little bit of a weak punch. Yeah. There's an Asgard ship descending over the base. What are they doing? Taking back what's rightfully theirs, I guess. Listen up, all of you. You've got two choices here. As soon as they stop taking stuff, they're going to start taking people. Now, you can go with the Asgard, or you can follow me. It's your choice. I'll be holding the door open so you can't go anywhere else.

[28:05] If this was all a plan, I'm going to be initially disappointed. Good job, kids. Make peace is the one. Yeah, there you go. What are you doing? That would be my job. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm pleased to announce that you are all under arrest for high crimes against the United States and its allies. We don't need their stuff, Make Peace. We do need them. Get them out of here.

[28:36] So just to uh clarify now i can't not see his eyebrows beginning with the appeal we made in which i i did a lot of hard work by the way i take it that was all a scam within the last two weeks the asgard and the tola approached us independently of each other with evidence that we were stealing technology from them and the asgard insisted that colonel o'neill be the only one involved. They like me. They do like you. They do. I like that they're pissed at Jack for this. Kind of rightly so, but also like I get it. I don't know. I'm back. Sam looks like she wants to punch him. Uh-huh. Indeed. There's an indeed! Daniel? He was outright mean to Daniel. Stuff I was talking about at my house. Um, the place was bugged, I had to keep up the act. I understand. The awkward van bro hug. I do appreciate that you were the one that came to see if I was okay. That means something. I actually know it doesn't. We drew straws. I lost.

[29:48] Oh, now you get that little end of the music that's happening. Uh-huh. Dilk.

[30:05] All right jeff well you and i have just watched shades of gray what a roller coaster this was a particularly fun one for me who knew exactly where this episode was going the entire time this episode by the way as you might imagine has a really high rewatch value once you know what's going on you go back and see it through the entire thread of the entire show you were guessing the entire time you you did i don't know at what point you actually figured out what was happening.

[30:38] If it was kept all the way to the end or if you had it but you had lots of guesses throughout the course that i want to encourage if you're just listening to the audio version of this head over to our youtube page and and check out the the reaction to this because that was a good one with jeff jeff take us through your first watch of shades of gray well i want to start by doing my best hammond impression which will not be good uh because i don't do impressions well but uh i'd like to thank the academy for this nomination and this holy like so starting at the end they walk through the stargate right all the the uh sgr i'll call them the stargate rogue They walk through and they're getting arrested and they're in the SGC. And immediately I was just like, oh God, it was all a setup. This is dumb. I'm disappointed. And actually it's pretty brilliant. And this was a great way of solving a problem that they knew was there and couldn't really articulate. Like I went in that moment, like I had so many emotions that happened. But in my head the whole time, I was just like, is this a thing? Jack did on his own.

[31:44] Because there's no way Hammond was legit pissed. Like he was angry. And he can't even pronounce Gould, so it's like...

[31:56] Ghoul i can't even do i can't do the accent i can't do it but it's just like he was legit mad so is this a thing he wanted to go inside no my god hammond's in on it the tollen were in on it like all these people were in on it and it's like kind of awesome like really cool i had like he said i had so many theories but from go i'm like this isn't jack this doesn't make sense this is a zero to 60 moment where yeah he's frustrated everybody's frustrated that they're having to go the slow way and they're getting told no all the time to go from that to yelling at general hammond yelling at the toll and ambassador lady like wow it didn't check out for me and i had a hard time what did i say i said at one point there's like it's one of two things or something like either someone else.

[32:45] Has control of him like mind control or clone control or he's working for somebody else well so i gave you option three because you said it's either there's an alien or he's working for somebody else and my option three was he really feels this way or option four yeah which is what i kind of turned out which is all set up actually i'll give you what i wrote down here as actually option four was action four is uh jonathan glasner before writing this episode just watched the star trek voyager episode investigations where tom paris left the ship in order to suss out the mole and pretended to be really pissy at everybody good call because it's the same plot it's like the third or fourth episode in a row that's a direct lift from voyager tng i ain't gonna lie next week's is as well it is well the stuff works you know you go with it listen here's the thing and we're gonna catch a lot of flack because we always compare stuff to star trek look i'm.

[33:42] It's not that everybody's doing stuff like Star Trek. It's this is how sci-fi is done. We've watched enough sci-fi. This is what happens in sci-fi as a, as a, as a, as a genre. We can pick it out. It's just how it goes. You know, for us, it happens to be Star Trek that we line it up to, but this episode's in a bunch of other franchises as well.

[34:02] Did we, did we have? Yes, we did. Didn't we? We had the episode in Babylon five where a character was being insubordinate and pretending to be bad and not be in line with everybody in order to get the actual bad guy and turns out they were good the whole time wasn't that a garibaldi episode it sounds like a thing garibaldi did and i'm not thinking of what it was off the top of my head but it sounds that sounds like a garibaldi episode or it sounds like something sinclair would have put garibaldi up to in season one or i don't remember where it was but uh it fits the character for sure yeah and it's a thing that they would have done right now people are just chopping up the timeline right now right, please do it please do it tell us which episode it is i'm just not thinking which one it is been a while it's been a while give us a break i and other other little clues like he said this is going to be has a great rewatch value because there's a handful of things that i wrote down is like ah this doesn't uh this doesn't make sense one of them was uh mayborn starts telling him kind of at a really high level what they're doing you know hey i think it's ridiculous that we have to do this also jack says well whatever you're doing it's got to be really illegal like he's concerned isn't the thing you just did also like you're literally calling him out for the thing that.

[35:24] Did. That doesn't line up. Well, of course it doesn't because he wasn't like, he wasn't really in it. I was heartbroken. I was so sad. My heart that is three sizes too small, apparently broke and shattered a little bit when he's like, I want to retire on a Dora. I want to go see Lara.

[35:43] I've gotten, and, and it's like, I was like, what a great callback. And I literally thought, cause Mayborn is all you you're either in or you're going to disappear once I share this. And he's like well i'm in and so i'm like oh he's not in he wants to go to adora with his with his the his love because he wants to be with her also to run away from mayborn just to get away and do how great is oh no that would be that would if if for whatever reason richard dean anderson was leaving the show that's the way to do it that is his the what jms would call is the trap door exactly that would be his trap door to be able to go out um and still come back for guest spots if ever needed or wanted you know sure sure because that relationship was so good and so pure you know we still just want it for jack and you know i again i'm recalling my first watch experience i need to see him and her i need to see her back in his life i need to see this you know what you know what relationship it's like again here i go going to star trek it's it's uh cisco and and um yates yates thank you yeah i mean talk about just a pure great relationship where she was not in every episode she only popped up every once in a while but it was she was so equal to him in every step of the way she was her own person she gate she wasn't under his command yeah and and it was i mean i think when you talk about the great star trek relationships.

[37:10] Through that whole franchise, Cisco and Yates has to be one of the top way up. It doesn't get brought up enough. It really doesn't.

[37:18] That's the way I really feel about Jack and Lara. And I'm, yeah, that's where I'm. It's great they called it back though. You know, I mean, it's, there's hope, right? It's like, there's hope. They're not, they're at least not pretending like that episode never happened. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and that's, and I'll tell you what, that is my fear in this episode because what Jack had to do to make this right, He had to big time Sam, like he wasn't mean to her, but he was way out of character and harsh. You know, he, he did hurt her. He was straight up mean to Daniel. I mean, he all but told Daniel, I don't like you. I never liked you. And I don't care. Like, oof, that is hard. But what do you make with that whole last scene where the music started getting all, you know, whimsical again? Yeah, that's, that's where I'm like, it's the end of Star Trek again, where you got Spock McCoy. The original series end of Star Trek. Yeah. Every episode he gets all heavy and then ha ha little light music and a joke to, to go off. I don't want that for this. I want there to be a rift at least between Daniel and Jack Daniel has to be hurt by this. And it doesn't need to be an ongoing, like, will they won't day blah, blah, blah thing. But like, they need to work through this somehow as we're making all of our callbacks. Let's not stop. This can't be shared in and Garibaldi. We're just all of a sudden they're fine. Hmm.

[38:39] There's a lot of repair work to be to be done i think um i love though that like now because we got and i i was trying to recall it during the episode i still can't but there was the episode.

[38:50] Where this group got introduced right and so they had that other the other stargate that was down in the in the in the ice cubes from solitudes from solitudes where we found it it's i can remember that episode but i can't remember this other one but they had that stargate they moved to the air base in utah there was the shootout they belly flopped into the stargate and all that and like oh gosh there's this whole other group they're back right and mayborn running the crew they're out literally doing stuff falling apart though now the asgard kind of took all their stuff again.

[39:22] On the list of like people to not mess with i feel like the asgard are at the top they're kind of up there yeah yeah yeah like not a good choice whatsoever and it's interesting too we talked a little bit during the episode but mayborn's crew follow a military structure they have rank they you know have sort of uniforms or whatever but they generally like dressed like pirates, the the one uh you know starbuck who was in there could have been sam carter like carter beat her out for the job so it's like there's definitely this military component also are they military, like he never reinstated jack but they were still calling him colonel and i don't know probably doesn't matter in any way it's just i was very curious about like how's this thing even set up do you want me to tell you what it is do we find out later kind of you might have already found out i don't know if they've said the word yet like there's a name for this organization okay yeah i don't know if this is a real life organization that we have in the real world or if this is completely made up for the show. This is just my lack of military knowledge. But the organization that Mayborn is in command of or that he works for is something called the NID.

[40:36] Yeah. Right. And basically they are an oversight committee. I think they're supposed to be a civilian oversight committee over all these top secret programs. They're not supposed to interfere with how the programs work, but they're an oversight.

[40:50] Mayborn kind of leads like a rogue element of the NID, which is how they kind of they know everything that's happening.

[40:57] And they're kind of trying to take over a little bit more. but that's technically they're under the nid and in stargate mayborn works at the nid okay we've had a couple of the nids had a couple of people show up who are like the mayborn's just the one that has stuck around yeah yeah the longest so so essentially they're they're people that work for the nid but like this is their extracurricular or mayborn says they they're assigned to this they work in the yeoman shack doing whatever actually they're on px358 going and stealing stuff yeah i mean this this is like what's up on the 36th floor at the nid nobody asks there it is section 36 yeah pretty much yeah yeah if it gives you any hope though about the whole again to go back to the lair thing how how many episodes was it between solitudes when we first found out about the second gate and when you saw this team using that and jumping through it that's a big jump how many episodes has it been since we last saw them jump through the episode and now they turn up again here in this episode uh one yeah last we got lara last week no no no no no no when we last saw these guys jumping into the stargate belly flopping into the stargate yeah how many episodes from then to this one where those people turn back up in the show that was a lot so you know if we don't get layer next week or in two more weeks or even for the rest of the season there is always hope that it could come back around yeah there's stuff that's waited a season Cause that's Stargate. This is Stargate. This is what I love about Stargate.

[42:26] It's all still on the board. When did you expect to see the Tolans again? How long between we'd seen them? Yeah, they just, I mean, back when was the last time we actually saw the Asgard? Like it's been, they don't just forget what happened. They put all the pieces down. They stay on the board. They may never move again, but they stay there the whole time. Yeah.

[42:42] Just cool. It's, it's really the perfect hybrid between serialized shows and episodic shows. It really is.

[42:52] Clearly Stargate is an episodic series, but what happens from week to week matters and affects or at least potentially affects future episodes yeah it's there it's a possibility like i said it's on the board and speaking of boards we need to update our tracking board yes let's do that we got an indeed we got an indeed yes we can definitely add that to the list that's a really good one i think it might actually be the one that i use in our patreon ad for the audio you think so this i think it might be the same indeed they all kind of sound the same because he is good he's kind of a pro okay this is absolutely impossible jeff we have missed something according to our tracking sheet this is only the third time tilk has said indeed that is impossible let's go back and watch all the other episodes again just to see i'm down most of them do it yeah between everything else we'll just yeah yeah yeah it i do know that and i'm very well aware that tilk's and deeds they do start ramping up they're not it hasn't quite become the catchphrase yet but he's had to have said it more than i'm pretty sure i i feel like we've talked about him saying it more maybe we just didn't put it in the see now i feel like i gotta go back and count all these things again uh-huh because we're only at 19 for crying out louds yeah which is a lot also it's not right right we have six daniel deaths though that seems like a lot we have three sam boyfriends so that's a lot because this is like episode.

[44:16] 60 this is episode 60 of the series yeah already on 60 yeah so it's like one every 10 episodes for the for the daniel deaths that's pretty wild yeah he dies at least twice a season yeah yeah well speaking of dying i am dying to find out what sci-fi messages you pulled out of this one.

[44:37] What do you got oh jeff yeah jeff jeff jeff jeff jeff okay first of all anytime we can take the take an episode and go this was.

[44:46] That episode of star trek which is a series which is known for intentionally doing its whole messages thing good chance we're gonna pull a message out of it i asked you a question earlier in the show does jack have a point if we need the tech to protect us from an existential threat and those guys over there have that and they're holding out on us for something that not just could but would provide us with real protection do we not have the god-given right of self-preservation to do what it takes to protect ourselves you're keeping one big qualifier out though that you asked ethics notwithstanding because if you take ethics out of the situation yeah every person for themselves like just get what you want it's anarchy strongest survives take it all but is that how humanity lives also i disagree it's an existential threat because we do have the protection of the protected worlds treaty with the asgard which isn't a guarantee but it's definitely something okay so that then becomes probably the the question of debate right um now i will tell you in this idea my mind goes to things in real world history like oh manifest destiny oh yeah hey that's gonna be ours over there we we actually are the dominant creature so you people get out of this land that we're just gonna decide we're taking now sorry right, peck up your shit and go, we're taking it now.

[46:09] Like not cool guys, not, not, not a proud moment in my own country's history. It has not turned out well for a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah.

[46:19] You know, and I'm not here to litigate it. I'm not here to provide answers or anything like that. I'm just calling it out for what it is. And it was, it was rather a disgusting moment when we're like, yeah, we need it. And we're just going to take it. And we don't care what you say. Like, Like this is, this is bad. This is something that has happened in history. Um, a lot. I don't know. I don't know world history of individual regions enough to know when this has happened throughout history and other countries, although I'm sure it has happened repletely through other countries. Um, and I'm talking more than just, Hey, we're going to go to war and we're going to take your land. I'm talking just a full on. Yeah. Well, a perfect example. I'm out here in Oregon, a bunch of the settlements that happened here and what led to the Oregon Trail was the government was like, hey, for free, you can have this huge chunk of land. You just have to come out and clear all the indigenous people out of it.

[47:09] And however you do, that's up to you. But they need to be cleared out and then you can keep the land. Yeah. That was a thing that happened a lot. Yeah. And that's, that's, uh, but we're just going to like, even, even despite our agreements that you can stay there and we'll stay here, we're going to break that just because we now want the land. Um, uh, what do we call it? The, the, the phrase, uh, imminent domain where they could just come by and like take your house. Cause we've got to build a road here now. Sorry. Uh, uh, but I also think of, of episodes even within Stargate, like spirits. Remember they found the trinium that new metal yeah like well how are we gonna well they're not gonna give it to us okay well listen they're migrating people we'll wait till they go over there during the winter and we'll just come in and take it while they're gone yeah like you don't have the right to do that that's that's it's not yours these are the kinds of things where those times when we violate our principles and our morals that we say that we hold to these ethics even for something jeff as basic as self-preservation this is where we lose ourselves honestly and i'd say at that point you don't have the right to preserve yourself wow if you're going to lose that yeah that's a pretty harsh statement um but this is god jeff we we are way over on our star trek quota for this episode and our babylon five i'm gonna keep this going i'm gonna keep this going uh this is the corbinite maneuver when cap when captain kirk says we now have a and in that specific thing just to catch people up uh their ship has been rocked by another ship right and.

[48:37] Absolutely talking about an existential threat they have rocked the enterprise something happens where the other ship is disabled and bad stuff's about to happen over there the enterprise has a chance their mission is to seek out and find new alien life right well it's right over there and captain kirk says to the bridge this is a chance to demonstrate what our high sounding words mean yeah here's the thing in this story now this doesn't necessarily always work out in life in this story it's actually by sticking to those high sounding words following those morals and those ethics that we ultimately acquire those things because what does jack say we don't need their stuff we need them by sticking to this we show them that they can trust us and then we can depend on them and we're going to be fine this is how we are going to protect ourselves is by not losing ourselves because if you lose yourself then maybe you're really not worth protecting right we saw that with uh jack in 100 days when hey he's lost we don't know what's going on the toll and we're like we'll help we got you it's gonna take us some time but we got you because we literally have to fly across space and don't have you know slipstream drive technology yet anyway here's the thing jeff i can hear detractors out there i can hear the keyboard clackers out there who are gonna say the same thing that jack said and you're perfectly within your right to have this opinion. I'd rather be a thief and alive than dead with a clear conscience. Honestly, though, I'm not that way. Agreed. And I disagree with you.

[50:05] If we go out, but we've stuck to who we are, then we go out. It happens. Yeah. Right.

[50:14] Head held high. Do what? Head held high. We did everything we could and we stayed true to who we are.

[50:21] If that's what happens, then that's what happens but i don't think it will um i think the lady from the tolan was right and i think she proved she proved this the truth is if you go through and you acquire that technology even for self-preservation jeff we humanity will eventually use it for more than just self-preservation we're going to use it for domination and we saw that immediately instantly in the episode in full force hey can you imagine all the cool stuff we could do with this black ops back on earth Yeah, we can. Oh, we're just, as she said, what are you going to use this for? I don't know. Well, you know, just, just in case the gold come and how long before you turn that on that country over there and that country over there. I think there's another side to this though, Jeff. Yeah. And it's Jack's side and something you may not realize through the course of this. Uh, but I need you to go back a couple of weeks ago when we watched pretense. I need you to go back when Jack first met the Tolan's.

[51:14] Um, Jack is legitimately miffed at the fact that the Tolens won't share tech. He is. It's okay. It's okay to be frustrated. It's not okay to lose who you are, you know? And I just, like I say, give permission to be frustrated at something like that. But it's, I can be frustrated that I can't move into that land over there that is actually flowing with milk and honey that I need to go expand some stuff. But that's not for me. There's, if I need to move in that land, then we go talk to those people. We negotiate. We do what we need to do on that level. We don't just go say, okay, get off now. We're coming in anyway. You know, um, we can be better. So Jeff, we take this, all of those words, all of those high sounding words, let's throw it up against our litmus test. Does this hold up a mirror to society? Yeah. Heck yeah. Cause this shows us exactly how we are called right on the carpet by toll and lady. Absolutely.

[52:08] Does this give us hope that we can be better in the future? Yeah, I think so. Hey if you stick to these high sounding words if you go with this there are friends out there that are going to help us and will be with us you have regained our trust she says yeah the asgard and the tolan both came to us the knocks were about ready they called the knocks were about ready to several relations with us as well now we're keeping them as friends it is hope that things can be better in the future and finally does it just teach us how to be better human beings to one another yeah i think so i think it does don't take what don't don't take this stuff yeah like that alone yeah uh and is this intentional is there an intentional aspect of this yeah yeah the point of the episode yeah i mean jeff i would be hard-pressed to give this anything less than seven full chevrons yeah all locked in as the episode was going i was just like it's all a question is how to package what's going on because this is clearly yeah the point and, even and even as i thought jack was legitimately.

[53:07] Not doing cool stuff that message was still there it wasn't like you had to wait till the end for it we were talking about it during the opening credits yep and it played it out all the way for us you know what i love about this though jeff is this this wasn't what we've gotten so often with star trek start i'm sorry with stargate where they present a topic and then they just never discuss it they don't really come back up to it they don't give you no no they presented this topic in the cold open they stayed with it through the entire show they showed you both sides of it they talked about it they discussed it they looked all the way around full seven severons everything locked in jeff that is my rating you my friend however get to rank this episode in 100 completely accurate and definitive ranking of season three of stargate sg1 top five episodes i'm going to go from there i've got a feeling this is going to go high maybe top five i don't know i don't know we've got a pretty solid top 10 i think uh but jeff the top five as it sits right now joel and our memories in the devil you know one episode put in sharing the number one spot forever in a day coming in at number two that's the one with sharae uh fair game is coming in at number three pretense episode we just saw a couple weeks ago coming in at number four and foothold number five jeff where are you placing shades of gray i'm having a really tough time deciding if this cracks the top five or not really want it to but i'm looking at that top five and struggling.

[54:34] A lot i'm not going to tell you which way i would do it but i'm telling you it's not a question for me okay okay for me i i've answered the question by going back and looking at some of my notes and so by one i'm already questioning it here's the thing that's going to make this an unfair ranking i don't think this episode is can be truly appreciated until you watch it the second time okay because i think i can i can appreciate the journey it took me on and all the questions that pose and everything but i think the i was going to say the brilliance but i'll withhold that and say you know the the this the the approach to it i think isn't really appreciated until the second time you watch it you know kind of what's happening so i'm going to put an asterisk i'm literally going to put an asterisk on the rating and i'll revisit this when we record i will watch this again and i'll revisit this one so today right now this is going to drop by one outside of the top five is the new number six hey jeff mute me for just a second.

[55:35] Yeah jeff's an idiot and this should absolutely be in the top this should be like a top three episode just because of the enormity of what this episode is actually saying it's so good, it's so good i may not want to watch this episode every single time i go through the whole show but the what this episode means oh my god okay just my thoughts.

[55:56] You like predictions for where things might go with this in the future okay that's fair that's and thoughts yes i definitely have thoughts well jeff that is going to do it for us here on uh shades of gray on this episode put a button on this one moving on to our next episode jeff i gave you a clue i'm i'm enjoying giving you cryptic clues to these episodes these days the next episode is titled new ground i told you this episode is also pretty much a star trek lift as well um people out there may or may not disagree may or may not agree with me i'm not i'm not really sure we'll find out but jeff you get a chance to make a guess for what you think this is going to be about new ground what do you say without the star trek thing without that i would think new ground is a continuation of a piece that was dropped in this episode, of starting a new sgc off world they're going to go break new ground and try and establish a thing but that's not a star trek episode what is oh and i can't remember what it was called but it's the one where uh they took uh wharf's brother and they put him in the holodeck and they made it seem like they were walking to somewhere right to take them to their new ground so there's going to be some race they run into is facing an extinction level event but they're not going to leave and so they find some kind of a deceptive way of moving the people to their new ground, you are a good guesser jeff that i am.

[57:23] Well, folks, uh, that is going to do it for us here today on Stargate SG one for the first time. Hey, thank you guys so much for joining us out there. Please don't forget wherever you're watching this or listening to this, please subscribe, subscribe, hit the like button, leave us a rating and review. And please most importantly share this show with somebody that you know that loves stargate or like my friend jeff over there needs to get into the gate for the first time well with that on behalf of my friend jeff my name is brent and we're gonna get out of here hey brent see you guys next time yeah jeff what's up i know you have thoughts on my ranking but do you know how you can tell exactly how i felt about this episode how, he's cocking his head and raising his head oh my god for crying out loud Thank you.

[58:43] We'll see you next time. So, Brent, let's go ahead and turn some lights on these shades of gray. There it is the crickets i think we're the better better choice.