Crossroads

This is Stargate SG1 For the First Time! From the creators of Babylon 5 For the First Time, Jeff Akin is watching this iconic show for the first time while Brent Allen, who has seen it at least 47 times, is watching for the first time for those sci-fi messages that hold a mirror up to society or show us how to be better human beings.

Crossroads - Season 4, Episode 4

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Chapters

• 20:11 [Ad] Royal Highness!
• 21:04 (Cont.) Crossroads

Transcript

[0:11] Welcome to Stargate SG-1 for the first time, still not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the first time. And I'm Brent Allen, and I'm watching Stargate SG-1 for the 47th time. Not the first time, the 47th time, but for the first time, I am watching this show trying to pull the messages out. I'm not just watching it for fun, I'm watching it for analysis, trying to find out where is Stargate holding up a mirror to society? Where is it giving us hope that things can be better in the future? And how does it tell us just how to be better human beings to one another? We're going to find out about that today. We're watching the fourth episode of the fourth season, Crossroads. Last week, when you told me this was our episode, I made my prediction. And I think that we're going to see Jack's love interest from 100 Days, Lara, show up. And she's going to be at this crossroads and basically leave Jack forever to tie a bow on on a story that only needs a bow because I think it needs a bow. You're not the only one who thinks it needs a bow really does, doesn't it? You're not. I've I have long felt that as well. The the distance in time from when that whole episode happened with Jack and the girl and everything to even now is with with one one mention in the intervening time. One mention jack goes to the planet and then turns around and leaves yeah without saying hi.

[1:38] Uh it's just inexcusable the way that that because it ended so great it was perfect it was great it was anyway yeah anyway you're a good guesser jeff hey thanks we'll find out about that here pretty soon why don't you i will tell you you are not correct but you are closer than you think really okay i'm not gonna tell you why i'm not gonna tell you how you're gonna find out in just a few moments awesome before we start that though i'm curious tell me about when did this episode come out any cool facts yeah this is fourth episode season four original air date at least here in america july 21st right in the middle of the summer in the year 2000 this one is directed by peter de louise so we got another cameo to look for our long-standing guy here's a hint he's a jaffa that gets punched out by teal'c okay oh fun so fun.

[2:27] Take take a look for it. This one, though, Jeff is written. I don't usually pull out these, but I feel like I'm doing this more and more lately. It's just because we're getting to know the names more. But this one is written by our dear old friend, the very hit or miss Catherine Powers. Oh, yeah. Hit or miss is the way to describe her. Yes, for sure. Now, Jeff, I will tell you the time has come for the end of the road with Miss Powers. This is her final episode as a writer on Stargate SG one. She'll be back for one more episode in the future with the story credit but not the writing credit okay um she's come to her crossroads yeah this is pretty much it meet you at the crossroads um so yeah blocked on youtube twice now.

[3:14] Yeah anyway uh with that i got nothing else to tell you other than let's go watch this episode man uh hey listen if you guys are joining us for the very first time first of all welcome You're amazing. Every episode is somebody's first time. So here's how this works. Jeff and I are going to go watch this episode right now. We didn't watch it before now and take notes and come here to talk about it. No, we're going to watch it right now. If you're hanging out with us on YouTube, you're going to stick around. You're going to watch our reaction video. If you want the full unedited version of that reaction, head over to our Patreon page at patreon.com. Bad nerds. With a slash in between there somewhere. Somewhere in there. If you're listening to us on a podcasting app, we're about to meet you on the other side as we gate into the future and you'll get to hear my for the first time reaction you'll hear brent sci-fi messages that he finds in this one and brent i have a lot on my mind but at this moment, I'm at a crossroads, so let's dive in. Let's get it. Chevron 7 locked. Oh, my God.

[4:21] We're receiving Braytac's IDC, sir. Braytac. Awesome. That ain't Braytac. Not Braytac. This is where I need Jack to be like, Braytac, you've changed. Braytac. Oh. You've done something with your hair. Identify yourself. I am Shannock of the Red Hills. Master Braytac opened the shopper eye but was unable to accompany me. Why is that? There is much unrest. He took great risk in sending me here. Oh, no. Don't kill him off camera. Shannock. Friend of yours? Indeed. Remember my wife? And we're going to forget about her. Talmaté, Teok. Talmaté. This is very like Spock and what's her name? Savick. Yeah, no, the other one. Savick, Star Trek 3. No, the other one. To Pring. To Pring. To Pring, yeah, that's a long one. How about a little introduction of some sort? There is no need. Jack's just like, come on. Braytech has told me much of the Taurian. Is that Peter Deluise? Teok's apprentice. yeah apprentice also a warrior of great skill and kind apprentice still it's apprentice hammond of texas a great and strong leader among humans.

[5:47] What can we do for you you must take me to the tokra immediately i have information that could destroy the gold or do you have information that could destroy the tokra i'll just ask these guys to take me they'll trust me because tilk's there and well tilk's in love with not his wife yeah yeah that was pretty uh on the nose way to communicate with my symbiote is that possible It is not. It is not. That is what we were trained to believe, Teal'c. The Goa'uld have no wish for the Jaffar to influence their young. That makes sense. How then was this communion achieved? Within a deep state of Kal-Narim. Well, we know that the symbiote is completely isolated from the Jaffar who carries it. How can there be communication? Medically speaking, the symbiote acts almost like an internal organ. What do you talk about? I have convinced it that the Goa'uld are evil. That its own desires for power and domination are wrong. I know I'm just the apprentice at this table. Why then not instruct this symbiote to deliver these secrets directly? Exactly. We do not communicate in words. It is more feelings, images, memories. It'll only be fully capable of communicating the knowledge it was born with once it takes a host. And since you've convinced it that the gold are evil, it will only take a willing host. It is most urgent.

[7:10] Your symbiote is ready to take a host even now. It has already passed its time. You have my word that it will harm no one. I have convinced it to wait. Once the ruled larva leaves the body, the Jafar's immune system stops functioning. You're putting yourself at great risk. I believe that risk is worth taking. If you would take me to the Tok'ra immediately. We can't do that. I'm sorry. You do not believe I speak the truth. You straight up said no. No, it's not that we don't believe you. We do not. What do you say?

[7:41] I think what Tilk's trying to say is that I have said precisely what I intended on you. A power play there by Tilk making sure Shannok understands. We'd like to believe you. We really would. You have my word. And? Yeah, right? It's not enough. But that is not enough. No. Then the secrets of the Goa world will die with me. Shannok, please understand. I do understand, General Hammond. Braytech was wrong about the wisdom of the Tarii. Sherlock.

[8:19] Ereman, do not. A lot of dying about to happen. I'm going to be like, no, you shoot that thing now. Dead, dead, dead. Yeah.

[8:30] Yeah, he's like a snake charmer, dude. Dr. Fraser, you may now approach. Stared it back down. I like how her clothes are miraculously re-sewn back together.

[8:41] The power of the symbiote. I'm not sure how much longer the symbiote will remain before it is no choice but to seek out a new host. That is its primal instinctual behavior. I may have to recommend quarantine, sir. And it needs a host to survive, right? Or be in some fluid thing. Actually, Jeff, now that you say it, I'm not sure. I know that the larval gold need to be in the little liquidy thing. But I'm not sure about an adult goal. Yeah. If they like if they have to have can they survive on their own without a host or do they have to take a host? Like I don't know that they absolutely have to like they could just be running around out there. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. I don't think they've said. I promise you right now in the comments there are people who are saying it on both sides. And they're saying it with 100% certainty. Like, oh, they have to. I don't. My guess. I'm trying to put together all my personal knowledge of the gold. I feel like they should be able to survive without a host. The host, once the host is, once a host is taken, the symbiote could choose to kill the host. Yeah. Before leaving them or not, as we've since learned.

[10:03] But the Jaffa for sure have to have the symbiote in order to stay alive and baby ones have to stay there as well yeah so if I if I use my Star Trek knowledge that people love that we bring up because this is not a Star Trek podcast but the Trill are able to live on their own separately oh we were talking about uh adults the Trill and symbiotes yeah so like a symbiotic relationship you'd think they need each other once that's established right but but we saw in Deep Space nine the trill and and in discovery both we saw you don't they don't they can exist but like the trill had to be i think every time they showed him they were in those pools in the cave yeah yeah and we've seen the jaffa and they were i think they were larval jaffa that we saw who were in the not jaffa gold oh gold yeah the symbiotes actually so yeah the the larval symbiotes yeah because they're not gold golds are a choice they're a faction or are they, you're not born a ghoul that's a choice oh man that's, sorry I am honestly sorry if I triggered anybody with that are you born a Tok'ra? Right are you no or do you have Tok'ra thrust upon you, it's a nice little wicked reference for anyone out there alright here we go Braytak is wise I do not know why he would have sent you here a message she believes Teok she killed Braytak after he opened up the gate.

[11:24] There is a way, If that's how they killed Brightdeck, I'm going to be pissed. Master Tilk. There's a way to prove it. Master Tilk. I am in need of your assistance. I'm here to serve. I wonder if it's a hard thing for Tilk to ask for help. I bet it is. You know? Especially his first prime, right? In the deepest levels of Kel-Noreen, the heart beats in extremely long intervals. Is it even possible to meditate so deeply that one may stop the heart altogether? This has lots of vibes of, like, Worf going through some old clean-up ritual. Wouldn't you symbiote try to start it up again? That is correct. According to Sharnok, it is only at this time a communion between Jafar and Symbiote is possible. So he's going to try it. Near-death experience. Put it to the test. Is it dangerous? Or a really awesome trip on shrooms. But there are some of those. Jack, he's stopping his heart. I mean for us. I am unsure of what will occur if and when communion with my Symbiote is achieved. You know, I'm a person who meditates frequently, and like the way it's portrayed in television, it's just like, so very different than reality. I wish it worked the way it does on TV sometimes.

[12:45] Did Apophis execute him? Oh my gosh, I would love this. I mean, it'd be horrible, but... Who is that, Jeff? I don't recognize him. You should. I should. You've seen him multiple times before. Yeah, please. No! Yes!

[13:10] Oh, wow.

[13:14] Medical emergency, Teal'c's quarters. Shunok is telling the truth. Yes. You challenged the gods themselves and won. Among many on Chulak, you are as revered as the gods once were. You're married, Teal'c. And yet you walk away. My place is here. Is he? Is it? Braytek cannot be expected to bear the burden alone. He's not. It was you who first began walking this path. Do not abandon those who have followed you this far. I have abandoned. No one when i die and you are the only one capable of teaching others what i have learned what will you do then do not concern yourself with me i have all but given my life for a cause that you inspired jeff say that to your wife next time she's popping off at you when you touched the mind of your symptoms what did it show you i fear losing you a second time, No. You never lost me, Tilk. Never again. His wife was with Dude, right? That other guy. I mean, they had the marriage annulled so that she could marry that guy, right? So she could take off the Sholva. Yeah. Thanks to Tilk. But also, I never felt like Tilk or Dryak really, like, legally it may have been done, but I never really felt like... It was like, this is going to help and protect you. But he's got that look on his face like, we know what just happened.

[14:43] He's like, it's been a while. You're glowing. Sherlock bears it well. She bears it very well. Little thing at the bottom. 43 seconds later. Could you stop walking? No, actually, I can't stop walking. So much dopamine running through me right now. Is everything all right? It's great. Yes. It's real good. I just noticed that you've been, you know, preoccupied lately, obviously, and I'm kind of going on a limb here asking, but I just thought if you wanted to talk, that I was here to talk. Aww. Daniel Jackson, if all Jaffa can be taught to come in with their symbiotes, then the days of the Goa'uld are truly numbered. We just got word from the Tok'ra. They've accepted Shannock's offer. When may we depart? Now. Colonel O'Neill's waiting for us in the gear-up room. The gear-up room? Yeah, I never heard it called that before. Yeah, I think we usually call it the locker room. Oh wow, we're going on location. To a matte painting.

[15:44] Shonok of the Red Hills, welcome to Vorash. Your father asked that I shake your hand and give Colonel O'Neill a big kiss from him. That might have been the other way around. Maybe. Is Freya in there?

[16:00] Of course, Colonel. Then it is true. Host and symbiote share the body equally. And we are both pleased to tell you good news. As you requested, Teal'c, one of our operatives has retrieved a newly spawned symbiote to replace that which Shannock offers. You have done this for me? It's kind of a big deal. If you truly have turned your symbiote to the Tok'ra cause, then your life is more valuable than any of ours. He said something, and I want to make sure we note this because I want to talk about it later, but it comes under your spot. But she said something real interesting. Here you have effectively a gold looking at a Jaffa saying, your life, potentially, your life is more important than any of ours. That's pretty profound when you think about that. You know, only highlights, truly highlights the difference between the gold and the Tok'ra. But having that humility. Yeah. But I just I just want to point that out, because if I don't, we're going to lose it later. And even in my notes, I don't think I would have a spot to bring it up in the course of the talk. So, oh, but I just I've never heard that before. And like that strikes me. Wow, that's huge. Yeah. Actually, I think I take that back. I think I got a spot to talk about that. very specifically we were able to find a host both willing and eager.

[17:21] It must be done now we are not yet ready for the transference it can wait no longer Chilk that just sounds gross, I am ready. Bring it. Dude. Take me.

[17:40] Right through the front of the neck. Not the mouth, not the back of the neck, but like... Just a few inches. Colonel O'Neill, lower your weapon. The transference is complete. Transference? That's what you call that? Shuttok. I still halfway expect this guy to start blasting. I still don't fully buy this. There was no more time Shonik's life was in grave danger. I had to act. At least he cares about her. It is my honor to pledge my allegiance to the Toekra. Toek's like, great, can we get the primtah into this lady now? It is true. It is a strange feeling, but I am very much here. This is awesome. I know so much. But Tanith wants you to know that we will submit to any test you may wish to perform to assure you that I am speaking freely as host. Rest assured, Tanith is pure of heart. Shonok was indeed a great teacher. Good. And maybe Tanith wouldn't mind sharing some of that fine ghouled knowledge. Of course. When the time is appropriate. How do I hang up with the niece and talk to Freya? Why? I like Freya. She and I are in complete agreement. How do I know that? I have told you. And I'm supposed to trust you? You know, this whole talking to two people in one body thing really sucks.

[19:04] I sense that she is still very weak. Her new symbiote is extremely young for the task of healing her. She's still tired from that time you and she... See, here's what should happen is Teal needs to give her his symbiote because that's stronger and a little older. Let him take the younger one, let the symbiote heal him up, and then they can switch later or just stay. Whatever, yeah. Tell General Hammond how the Tok'ra found us again. Gives him a little longer and a reason to come back. He's like we got a moment let's uh, somebody's on the other side going I must inform the Tari to leave their service, I could not wait to speak with you.

[19:51] Is this where the other shoe drops? Why do you just think that there's another shoe? There's always another shoe. You must speak your audacity. I do not understand. Because he would know her plans. How dare a priestess touch the mind of one who would be her god? I despise the gold. I am the gold. You shall be the means to destroy the Tunkra. Now accept your reward. Oh, yes. I feel like I called it. The ability? Okay. It is with much sadness that I must take my leave of the SGC. Oh, Tilk. I intend to live the remainder of my life on Chulak. What on earth for? Do you not recognize the greatness of Shannok's achievement? I think the point is that if the whole idea was to get the secrets of the Gould into the hands of the Tok'ra, And us, oh, by the way. It's done. Mission accomplished. You belong here. I belong where I am needed most on you. And that is on Chulak at Sharnok's side. But not Drea.

[21:05] Oh, they're gonna light a fire in Tilk. This is not gonna end well for Tanith. Tilk, it is with great sorrow that I return. And a lot more clothing. We found the body just outside her chamber symbiote she carried is also dead oh she appeared well shonok's death is simply the unfortunate result of waiting too long, well played by tanith uh-huh oh makes me wonder what he did to the symbiote to not just like yeah because he didn't have a hand wavy thing he just had his hand well we didn't see where his other hand went oh yeah get it i mean remember what happened with chronos and in tilk's dad, I wanted Teal'c to have the body for whatever spiritual ritual he may wish to.

[22:05] Dale! What's happened? Sharnok was murdered. He knows. You folks should invest in some doors. We have no secrets from each other. Like they do on B-Vive. I have reason to believe the Goa'u shall not care it was not truly convinced to become a Tok'ra. And so you have come to exact revenge. Heck yes. I'm sorry. We cannot allow you. Stop me. Yep. Stop him! He clotheslined that dude, man.

[22:45] Fireman's carry, Death Valley driver. How many Tok'ra does it take to stop Tilk? Tilk! Then take the ghoul out of the host. No. He'll be infinitely more valuable to us if we do not. But the host... You knew. If we control what he sees and hears, the Goa'uld will never know our true intentions. We will be able to use that advantage for months. When Tanith no longer serves a useful purpose, we will extract what go-old secrets we can in other ways. What about the host? There you go. He knew well the risks. When we have learned all that we can, we will try to remove the go-old. We are fighting a war for our very existence. I make no apologies for the means. That's tough. She's not wrong. Hates it, but knows it. Except the host. About the hosts.

[23:48] He's just chillin' in his room. Just, oh, Dark Jedi. Tok'a's gonna play along. You'd think there's just something so fundamentally different between a Tok'ra and a gold. It'd be much harder for gold to pretend to be a Tok'ra. Hm. Maybe. Hello, Te'ok. Like, they're just, they're so arrogant, they're so... You must feel the pain of Sharnok's death as deeply as I do. I hope one day we will meet again. We will. And together remember she who meant so much to both of us. We will meet again. You have my promise. Yeah. I love it. They both know exactly what's up but nobody said oh this is good.

[24:41] Dude he pissed off Tilk. That was not oh man. The good news for him is he knows how he's going to die now yeah you know what i love about that jeff where they ended it yeah like they did not put a bow on it they didn't put a period on it does it not feel like a cliffhanger no that's the thing like yes and no right because it's wrapped it's done and tilke's totally not done oh yeah precisely precisely well jeff you and i have just watched this episode crossroads you for the very first time me for the 47th time jeff take us through what did what was your first time experience watching this episode cross can you say crossroads again crossroads this was a much more lore packed episode than i thought it was going to be yeah like we're maybe halfway through and i'm like this is an interesting story there's cool stuff happening and then like just this deep dive on lore happened so kind of up to that point i was interested just in who's this lady right and why is she the relationship between her and tilk was interesting and just some things but when the uh it was when the tokra showed up freya's um when freya and her symbiote showed up like we got the deep dive and so we learned about queen egeria is that yeah egeria Yeah. Queen Ejiri, who is basically the mother of the Tok'ra. Yeah.

[26:10] And that I found this fascinating. I'm just going to go down a couple of things that I thought were just really interesting lore things we learned. Most of the Tok'ra are her children that she had, like the original Tok'ra. And they've existed for thousands of years.

[26:24] Very few go older. The symbiotes have ever joined them. So like without sarcophagus size.

[26:31] Yeah, they're just going host to host and then probably dying time to time when they can't find hosts or things happen to them. And we saw in the Tok'ra a really, not alarming, a really surprising, a really surprising level of humility where they were able to see the value of, oh, I've lost her name, Shannak? Shannak. Yeah. She saw the value of Shannak as a Jaffa and what she was able to achieve. They set their egos aside in a way that a goal just couldn't, couldn't do. I'm very curious. So in the episode, the whole point, right, was I as Jaffa can communicate with the little dude, the junior inside of me can do it in a really deep state of kill Nareem, almost stopping my heart, like almost to death. I can get there and communicate. We got to share in Tilk's vision with with Junior, and it was the murder of his father by Kronos. Yeah. But Tilk said a thing when he was describing his vision. And he's like, I saw the murder of my father, my symbiote or what is it has so much hate for me. Yeah.

[27:46] And it was, you said it and it was just left fast forward to Tanith killing Sean act. And it's like, he literally just left her body. Yes. Stayed with her beyond full maturity, left her. They had a relationship. They'd been talking and at his first opportunity, he killed her.

[28:05] So I'm just really curious about that relationship between like the symbiote in the Jaffa and like, do they hate them? Is that classist system of Goa'uld, God, Jaffa, soldier and garbage? Is that like kind of because they were incubated in them and they just have this innate hatred of them?

[28:26] I don't know. Are you are you throwing that out just as a as a rhetorical question or are you wanting like a response? Right now, it's a rhetorical question. Okay. I think in the future, you know, give it an opportunity to whatever. And I think it will become a question for me because it is like we've talked about at length on this on this podcast or other our other podcasts, the ability to other people when you lump them together. So you got Jaffa Jaffa are just garbage and labor. But is it more personal than that? And I think that would add some real layers to the the gold culture that would be fascinating to me. One thing that really bothered me is at the end, we, uh, near the end, Jack's like, all right.

[29:13] So we got the Tanith all set up. Let's get all that cool old information. Let's let's figure it out. And Freya is like, nope, not going to happen. And then he takes off and then he kills Shona. If in that moment she was like, OK, yeah, let's do it. Let's sit him down and start getting this. He probably wouldn't have a chance to pull this whole thing off. Also, they got to keep up the ruse a lot more to a lot more. Yeah. But now they got a they got a mole in there, basically, you know, they can use it. And and it sucks it's so like zero sum total approach of just like yeah this sucks, that host the hand hannah or whatever his name was um yeah sucks sucks to be him that's awful shown actually yeah sucks to be her also in the long run like we can you know when we might be able to win this war because of this so i gotta do that tough math i thought it was remarkable.

[30:08] And we've talked about this before you know i'm sorry jeff if i may back up you know what it It really reminds me of, as you say that, it reminds me of the whole thing in Babylon five with the telepaths, where they simply created as, as can fodder for the Vorlon shadow war where they, was it, was it there anything more to them than just being cannon fodder? Was there anything more to everybody else than like, so there's Hebron, Hebron's the name of the host. Okay. There's Shonok. Like, are they just cannon fodder in this thing between the gold and the, and the Tok'ra? Yeah and they're expendable and yeah it sucks but they're expendable it's not a big deal he knew the risks yeah yeah i don't i don't think he knew it might be a gould like we were pretty clear that he was going to be living the cool life with the tokra well i i i would think that they said that they would have told him like hey listen we've got this thing that's coming over it's possible this could go bad the wrong way, But it's also possible that the benefits of this could be phenomenal if it's true, but it's probably not. And we'll try to rescue you if we can. But, you know, but I mean, you know, too bad. Yeah. Now we've got our I think the only way for me to accept the idea of he knew the risks is if I was privy to the conversation of what risks he actually knew he was taking. Agreed, because when they when Jacob, you know, agreed to to take it on, we got to see some of that, you know, and some of the back and forth. Well, and Selmak had been a Tok'ra for thousands of years, presumably.

[31:38] Total known quantity and everything, as opposed to, well, like there's this lady here who, you know, Jeff watching this show thinks actually is trying to take down the Tok'ra. So maybe we should be, oh, shoot, you do want to take us down. Dang it. It wasn't the lady, though. It was you. It was you. It was you. I found it remarkable. We've talked about it before. or just the sheer blind hatred that O'Neill has for the symbiotes. Doesn't matter if it's Gould, doesn't matter if it's Tok'ra, if it's a snake, he hates it. And I mean, I'm not a fan, right? That's lumping an entire species and, you know, painting them all with the same brush. Also, most of his experiences have been either Gould trying to kill him or Tok'ra not quite being upfront and honest with him, right?

[32:28] I get it a little bit. But I mean, like, there's that scene where she's like, bro, put down your gun. The transference is finished. Like, chill out. And he's like, I'll shoot this guy in a heartbeat. Right. And his first words are, how do we know? How do we know? How do we know? This was an amazing Tilk and Chris Judge episode. The character of Tilk has to be such a challenge for Christopher Judge because he's so stoic. Right. He's just so like his range of emotion is is limited by his his persona and his personality. So Christopher Judge has to emote at like such a subtle level. Powerful level to get really strong emotions across his eyes the the the the puff of his cheek you know in a certain scene and and he just nailed it in this episode i felt i felt nostalgia from him i felt joy i felt anger i felt pure sheer hatred and the want for revenge all with his face.

[33:35] And like the way he physically carried himself it was it was excellent then my final thought on the thing is this catherine powers episode uh i think that as far as endings go this is catherine powers best ending of an episode also also it was so long like it felt very long did it not yeah yeah like you we paused it at one point and on our screen i think you can see it too but there's a little progress bar on the thing like when we pause it and we were like just barely over halfway done and i thought we were like wrapping the episode how is there like we've been watching this for so long i don't know what it is about like almost every episode she's written but the pacing in it is just really difficult to sit through but this was this was a great story but let me let me ask you this though yeah what is there is there a way that this episode could have been tight. Like, could this have been a 30 minute episode stretched out over 44 minutes? I don't think like, I'm trying to think of what you cut out of the rest of this episode.

[34:36] I mean, maybe you take out the whole Teal'c romantic side of it. Like, it's unnecessary. And that's a few minutes, though. He could have the exact. Exactly. And he could have the same response, even if they weren't romantically connected. So I think there were three distinct parts of this story. There was Seanac comes in and is with the SGC and Teal'c, and we're figuring out that relationship. Yeah. Then there was the part that Tokra show up and we're going to figure out how to, you know, is this worthwhile to bring her on board and try this thing out? Then there was we tried it and it's falling apart. Yeah. And each one of those parts were critical to the whole thing. And within like maybe maybe you could have tightened up two minutes, three minutes of the episode. I mean, it felt long, but it was I it was what it was like, you know, there was a lot packed into it. But yeah, so I'm not sure how to how I would how I'd say to fix it. But a couple of times I was just like, I'm enjoying this. This is a good story. Also, how is it not over already? I wonder how many people have ever felt that about our episodes, Jeff. They're probably feeling it right now. I know I have.

[35:47] How are we still talking about this thing? Right. Speaking of talking about things a lot, we have a tracking board. We do. And we have no updates to that tracking. None. None. It's been a while. It feels like it. There were some good, good chances for it, but didn't happen. The next thing we're going to dive into, and I know you've got some stuff here. If you don't, I do. What kind of sci-fi messages did you find? Before we get there, we have a goddess check. Yes, we do. We have a goddess check. And I'm actually rather excited about this one because I went in and kind of I did a little bit more research. I was like, oh, this is kind of neat. We heard the name. We didn't meet the person, but we heard the name Ageria, the mother of the gold, presumably Probably all the gold out there are siblings. At one point, which just think about this. You have a single gold. I'm sorry, not gold. I'm in Tokra, but you have a single gold who one day goes, you know what? Maybe we're not all that. There's a black sheep of the family. Then they go off and have a bunch of babies. And remember, genetic memory in the gold. They just think the way their mom thinks.

[36:52] They're just weird. Like, it's not that they're good. They're just they're weird because their mom was weird. Yeah, they're just carrying it on, the genetic memory. This is who we are. What's her deal? Where is she? All right. So Daniel says that Egeria was the Roman goddess of fountains and childbirth and an advisor to Pneuma Pompilia, I think is how you say his name. Okay. All right. That's like, I'm going to give that like two and a half out of three. All right. So let's talk about it. Egeria was a water nymph, according to Roman mythology. Not quite a goddess water nymph. Certainly very associated with Diana or Artemis from Greek mythology. Very associated there, which is pretty.

[37:36] Ideally where the whole childbirth things comes from because that's apparently something with artemis but she was supposedly the divine consort which if you're familiar with what the word consort means yeah uh and counselor to the second king of rome okay now we're talking like 650 to 700 bc we're nowhere near the roman empire right now we're nowhere near like i don't even know if they're speaking latin yet like this is not caesar this is this is you had romulus the name the dude romulus who founded the city right uh and then the next guy the next second king right okay so that's how far back the mythology of this piece goes to this day by the way a geria is an eponym like it's a it's a word that's that means a female advisor a female counselor think really deanna troy uh-huh she would be in a jury to captain picard okay all.

[38:37] Right um like i said very minorly connected to childbirth and even that only just because of the whole water thing you know like fluid um but she really is more known for her fountain fountains sacred groves but one fountain specifically i'll talk about in a second and she's known for giving out wisdom and prophecy to anyone who's brings her an offering of milk or water okay in her sacred groves all right now well as daniel said according to mythology she was um the advisor and consort to numa pompilia the second uh king of rome and it was him who actually wrote down the original framework for the laws and rituals that would govern rome govern roman society wow so kind of like moses like here are the rules, right?

[39:26] And the paintings are and the way the mythology goes is basically she dictated to him and he wrote them down. Okay. So they came from her. She was the burning bush. Right. Yeah. Right. Now, later when he died, he was buried with those writings. And as time went on, like the next 500 years, society grows. It evolves.

[39:47] The politics of the region are not necessarily what they were when they first started, you know, and they actually rediscovered these laws. They rediscovered these writings that Numa Pompilio wrote, assuming he's a real person, I guess. And the the story basically is is that the law when they read the laws as they were originally were given down they were so dangerous and so destructive to the way that roman politics of the day worked that the caesar or whatever or the senate whoever it was ordered that they be completely destroyed and no one was to ever know what was actually in them wow because it's like okay no this is not going to help us at all like this is we are not in this way right now so were Were they better? Were they worse? I don't know. But anyway, now it was said that when Numa died, Numa Pompilia, when he died, she was so heartbroken. She melted into tears and thus became one of the main seven water sources for the fledgling Roman society. All right.

[40:47] A spring of some name. I can't I can't tell you. And so there is the goddess of fountains. She she literally became and the water nymph thing and all that sort of stuff. So that's cool. That's who Nigeria was in real earthling mythology. yeah and like she put out the law and set things up which would line up with like we have an existing lock go old and i'm like this isn't good so i'm going to create this new thing yeah the toke rod but this one gets and also is living in secrecy and also the gold find it and they're like we're going to kill it and so like there are some loose parallels between the real story and what what we saw saw in this one and hey listen we haven't seen them for 2 000 years that puts us right around like zero.

[41:28] You know, kind of in and around that area, which means that this whole stuff with her happens like 700 years before that with the anyway. Yeah. Anyway. That's interesting. Anyway. All right. You asked about sci-fi messages, sci-fi messages. Real quick. You were very concerned about Braytac throughout the course of this episode. Yeah, that's exactly what the heck happened to Braytac. I know. She convinced Braytac, and he thought it was a good idea, so he sent her there, and Braytac couldn't come. Also, Tony and Mandola wasn't available for shooting in this episode. Yeah, I think that's what happened. That's what I got for you. Scheduling's not good. We'll give you a name drop and see you next time. Right.

[42:12] Here's a question that I have, and I've always had this, and this has never been answered.

[42:16] The symbiote of Teal'c, or was it Shonok? The symbiote showed a memory of Kronos. yeah that's junior it's tilks right do we remember where tilk got his here's the thing do we remember where tilk got his current symbiote from i don't was it no daniel didn't daniel like they were on a mission to chulak the last time they met draak and daniel had a a jar and tilk had to give his symbiote to ryak and tilk got the got the new thing from the temple of apophis where shanak lived oh wow gold have genetic memory so therefore if the symbiote showed teal chronos killing teal's father not apophis chronos does that mean that this particular ghoul larva is a child of chronos wow yeah and if so why is a child of chronos's symbiote at the temple of apophis disinformation mole thing might be a little more ubiquitous just saying.

[43:23] Question i've always had i've never all right anyway you know what i did see in here that i've never ever seen before in my life what's that a couple messages oh never seen them before yeah never seen i've never looked for them i never looked that hard i was like that's this episode, let's move on anyway uh there is this spot this is one that i i just found was um well let me let Let me do the second one first to the second one first. We talked about it just a moment ago.

[43:48] The Tok'ra are completely willing to sacrifice Hebron specifically and even Shannak. Yeah. But it was Hebron with the explanation of, well, he knew the risks got this. And you kind of, ah, they're not wrong. They're at war. Jeff, this is where I'm going to pull my Trekkie card as Trekkies. We know, and we detect to, to sacrifice the one simply because you're at light and you just call them cannon fodder. That is gross. That is disgusting. That is immoral. And that should not be. And the Tok'ra are perfectly willing to do that because that's where that is. You bring this into the real world. Are governments willing to sacrifice individuals for some greater purpose? Sure. All the time. Doesn't make it right. Does not make it right. And I just I think when I look at holding up a mirror to society, it kind of shows the ugliness of that. Also, you know, kind of the how do we be better to one another? How about by not doing that? Right. You know, honor Hebron. Yeah. I think of King to was it to Chaka to Challa's father. Black Panther. Okay. Yeah. From Marvel.

[44:59] His, his whole thing talking about the, the Avengers and, and all that sort of, if you guys haven't seen it, whatever, but he's talking about how like the Avengers go out and through their actions, other people are getting hurt and they're like, yeah, but it's not us. It's the, it's the bad guys. It's like, yeah, but you're pushing them into that area. Like, like there's a, you still have to care for the civilian. We can't, you know, you can't hold them. Anyway, there's that whole piece. The one that I found way more chewable.

[45:31] Mind chewing to me, was there's a spot where Freya looks at Shonok. And says that if she has truly learned how to communicate with her symbiote, then she says, then your life is more important than any of ours. And I thought that was really profound, considering the fact that you have a go old effectively saying to a Jaffa, your life is more important than mine. I think when you talk about a hope for a better future, hopefully a mirror to society, maybe a mirror for how society should be. How do we be better human beings to one another jeff i think when you look at the history of mankind when you have certain groups of people who think that they're so superior to others everyone else is trash to be able to look at them and go for whatever reason they say no no your life is more important than mine regard with no no no qualifier qualifier no well for a jaffa or Or even though I'm a gold and you're a Jafar, you're like none of that. It's just no, no, your life is more important than mine. That struck me as very profound that it was a I don't want to say colorblind. That's not the right phrase, but basically it was a blind look. It was a dispassionate look like, no, no, no. If you can do this, then that is more important than what we've got. We've got to preserve that in you.

[46:53] We've got to preserve you, you know, and I just I that was that was struck me. as huge. Now you converse that to the way the Goa'uld treat their own kind. We saw Kronos twice in this episode reach into Tilk's dad's pouch and crush his fellow symbiote that's in that thing just to punish the Jaffa. Just to torture him. We saw Tanith, presumably that's what he did to Shannok. They will kill each other and not even blink an eye at it. That's how little they think of other beings, right? Much less the Jaffa and the humans and whomever else. And you think of what I think is just one of my favorite episodes, pretense, the whole trial, you know, who and you've got the guy who's like, well, what about cattle? We view you as cattle. Such disdain. Just, you know. So I love that. It doesn't really give us an answer outside of just here's here's where it is. What's the intentionality of it? I don't really care what the intentionality of it is. I just, I love that as a message. Was it what the thrust of the episode was all about? No, but it was there and it was, it was in pretty plain sight. Jeff, I'm giving this one for Chevron's. Four. Okay. I'm going to push back.

[48:19] You sound like you want to stump. I do. I want to take yours, and then I also have an additional one that I picked up. So, yes, they had, so Shonak had a thing that made her more valuable than the Tok'ra's life, right? I want to take it a step further and say, what if it didn't have to be a thing? What if they just recognize the importance and dignity of someone else's life or what if we did you know you don't have to bring something to the table you're another human and so your life is at least as valuable as mine if not more depending on how you you know view your servant status or whatever so i think that the message that's in that scene that that moment is is goes more deeply to just, you know, recognizing the agency and importance and dignity that any being brings by virtue of being alive.

[49:15] But there was a thing when Shonak was talking about her relationship as she began to commune with who we learn is Tanif. And she said the images started with anger and horror and hate. Like they were just these intense, horrible visions, but she kept going back. And over time, then they became sorrowful. And then they became, you know, had other emotions and it formed what she believed was a connection in them, between them. And I was really struck on how most people have that hateful interaction with someone or an angry interaction with someone and they're out. I'm done. I don't want to deal with that. She went back and she continued having the relationship and communicating and was able to, till the end when we find out what was really going on, but in up to the moment was able to like connect with this other being. They couldn't even communicate in language. And they built what she believed as a connection because she didn't write it off at hate or at anger. And that's a way we can be better as people.

[50:15] Brent, there is humiliating and horrifying amount of hate in the world today and yesterday. I don't want to say like, this is a new thing. We've had it, you know, for forever. We're much more aware of it now than we have been before. But there's a tremendous amount of hate. Could you imagine what it would look like if we recognized the dignity and value of the human life that is choosing to hate? So going back to that and didn't just write them off at hate and anger. Could we connect? I don't know. I don't know. I'm one guy thinking a thing. But you know what it wouldn't do is create groups that just oppose each other at their at their core. There'd be at least the opportunity for some sort of connection like Shonak built with Tanith. So I see this one. I think four is fair. I would put this one closer to five myself, but also I might be digging and adding a lot of my own interpretation. I mean, you you hand me a Star Trek message when you say that, though, Jeff, How is it that we get past all of our with each other? Is it firing weapons and punching each other? No, it's communicating, sitting down and talking, finding common ground with each other. Of course, we know that Tanith completely betrayed that and he was pulling a ruse the entire time. And you know what? I think there's a great lesson in that, that. OK, let's have this conversation, Jeff. I think you could delete everything else we've just said and start right here.

[51:41] You ready? all right okay um was everything that shawn ock went through worth it even though it didn't turn out right even though it turned out awful with tanith and how he he was just pulling he.

[51:55] He was manipulating her from the very beginning. But was it worth it to go through that process for the chance that someone could come around? You have to try that more could come around, even though this one didn't work out. Will the next one will one of them will something happen? I and it's it's difficult to answer that question, having just seen the extent of what we saw. But I got to believe it was worth it. If nothing else, just to just to try. I, I think, I think that's a huge, what, what we would call the star Trek message, right? It's not the storm trip, but listen, yeah, you've got to give it a shot. Is it possible? It could go wrong. Is it possible? They could be using you. Is it possible? This is never going to work. The answer is yes, but the, it is the fight that is worth it. It is the chance to be able to do it before you go to phasers.

[52:45] Photon torpedoes or staff weapons or ppgs or uh that guns that guns yeah yeah before you go to any of that it is worth it to try to make something happen it's worth the risk and in that way the idea that hebron knew the risks yeah it's possible it's possible this could all go belly up and if it does then that sucks but the reward what did hebron say the rewards are great i don't know what the exact phrase was they're they're remarkable if this if this thing happens we've got to give it a shot and that feels like a very captain picard type thing to say so it really does um what is it but again was that where they were trying to go with the message is that what the show was trying to be about it's right there though it's right there on the surface and i think we could do we could do a whole thing on that jeff i'll meet you in the middle and go four and a half chevrons love it i think that's perfect well jeff i do something called a rating you my friend get to do the ranking where you get to take these episodes you get to put them in order season four of stargate sg1 you get to rank these this is your 100 completely immutable, definitive ranking currently you have three on the list you got small victories at number one upgrades at number two and the other side at number three jeff where are you throwing in crossroads. Not going to mince words on this one. And it's tough.

[54:10] I have a hard time. These are all great episodes. This is going to be number three. This is going to go right below upgrades, right above the other side. All right. And I think a lot of it just because of the conversation we had, I'll be honest, this was going to be number four for me at first, but I think us talking it through and what's underneath the surface. I got to be honest, my personal preference of watching these episodes, this is still number four. I would rather watch the other side. Yes. Yeah. This is not an episode I like to come back to very often.

[54:37] I was not looking forward to coming into this particular episode. It was like, Oh, it's this episode. Okay, fine. But I will tell you my respect for this episode has gone off the charts compared to what it was walking into this episode because of being able to watch it through this lens. Agreed. Yeah. And just having the conversation afterwards, it's an entirely different look. There you go. And that's why we do this.

[54:59] Hopefully you folks out there, you've had a similar experience. Why don't you write into us and let us know. You can hit our contact form at our webpage, wherever that is. Check the, check the, check the stuff down on the link below. You'll be able to catch it there.

[55:13] But send us in and let us know what are your thoughts on this episode did your respect for it go up just through our conversation what conversations have you guys had about it anyway uh jeff that's going to do it for us here for crossroads next week we're watching an episode called stay with me here divide and conquer, divide and conquer jeff what do you think divide and conquer could be about pull it out of the air my friend divide and conquer is going to be an episode of the week okay we're going to a planet it and it's just it's going to be a battle of some kind right i mean this is going to be kind of a more generic episode i think and that's a generic prediction too, It is a prediction for a generic episode. We've had we've had a number of all the episodes so far of like move forward lore or overarching storylines a little bit. And that's not SG one's bag. And so I think this one's going to be kind of a return to form. And we're going to walk into a hostile situation and help. I think the prediction part of it is they're going to provide some sort of military strategic leadership to some group on the planet they end up going to. Okay. That's the thing you got to say is they're going to a war and they're going to provide some sort of leadership to another, another, uh, whatever, another somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right.

[56:30] Well, Jeff, we'll find out next time right here on Stargate SG one for the first time. Hey, you guys out there. Thank you so much for joining us. Stick it through us with this whole show. Uh, listen, don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast, your YouTube, your videos, your audio, your audio books, whatever it is. Be sure to subscribe to us there and please please please leave us a rating and refute refute what's a refute refute of a room anyway leave us a rating and review and if you really want to help us out the absolute best way you can do that is go over to patreon and give us all your money no i'm just joking actually the very best way you can do that is by sharing the show with somebody that you know that loves stargate sg1 or maybe somebody who like jeff over there needs to get into stargate for the very first time so with that i'm gonna get out of here my name's brent that's hey brent yes jeff we we had a little bit of our some hiccups in recording this one do you think that you could share your template for editing these things for with me uh yeah i can do that probably not right now though not right now.

[57:37] Jesus. Dude, every, every freaking time, you and the Tok'ra both, like, maybe for once, just try working with somebody. Dude, I mean, come on. Crying out loud. I actually forgot to look for an ending in that episode. I forgot it was coming up and I was really glad you wrote it in the note. I was like, oh.