What a joy to chat with my friend, Yasmin Nguyen. He is the author of The Game of Joy and founder of the Joyful Living Project. He is also a co-host on The Real Retirement podcast which is bringing joy filled transitions to people who are living their best lives into their 3rd and 4th chapters of life. In this conversation, we discuss living in joy, living through Un-joy and learning to "pause for joy". An incredible conversation with an incredible human.
www.joyfullivingproject.com
www. realretirementpodcast.com
@drjoyshow
thedrjoyshow@gmail.com
What a joy to chat with my friend, Yasmin Nguyen. He is the author of The Game of Joy and founder of the Joyful Living Project. He is also a co-host on The Real Retirement podcast which is bringing joy filled transitions to people who are living their best lives into their 3rd and 4th chapters of life. In this conversation, we discuss living in joy, living through Un-joy and learning to "pause for joy". An incredible conversation with an incredible human.
www.joyfullivingproject.com
www. realretirementpodcast.com
@drjoyshow
thedrjoyshow@gmail.com
Hello, friends, and welcome to the Dr. Joy Show. I'm your host, Dr. Laura LaJoie. Today we're going to have open conversations with people who live their lives through the lens of joy, and I have the privilege of chatting with my friend Yasmin Nguyen. He's the author of The Game of Joy book and founder of the Joyful Living Project. Yasmin, welcome to the Dr. Joy Show.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Oh, thank you so much. What an opportunity and a gift, and I'm just so grateful to be here with you and your audience today.
Track 1:Thank you my friend. Well, hey, I'd really love to just jump right in'cause you're such a great example of what joy is in our lives. So tell me, how do you personally define joy? And can you share a moment in your life when you felt truly joyful?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:That's a really great question, and it's also a very difficult question. I mean, joy comes in so many different ways, and I find that for me, joy is really about connecting with myself, and that happens when I get to chance to experience nature, when I get a chance to have amazing conversations with friends like you and an opportunity to explore. And so if you ask me what is joy for me, I could tell you a different answer every single day. Then what was the second part of your question?
Track 1:Well to share a moment when you felt truly joyful in your life.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:gosh, there are so many. I think the hardest thing is trying to pick one, but recently, getting a chance to have,, lunch today. a friend of mine who I have not seen in over five years. We met in Portland, Oregon. And to be able to sit face to face and to catch up and feel like we just left off, we pick up where we left off. That was just so joyful. Just to be in the presence of someone that, uh, you know, I was close. I've been close to.
Track 1:That's amazing. Do you find that there are ways that you regularly impact people with your ability to find joy in the world?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:I think that being present with people really helps them, especially connect with joy, for me to be. There are times in my life when I don't feel joyful at all, and I know that it's okay. I mean, that's part of our life's journey. And to know that in each moment we get to create joy, I think that's the primary concept is that we don't, I don't believe that we find joy. It's not something that's external that's out there, but it's something that is within ourselves that we have access to, and we get to be aware that we can create or bring it out from within us.
Track 1:When you were doing your Joyful Living Project for your gorgeous book, the Game of Joy, you brought a lot of joy to people around the country. I mean, was it difficult to come up with ideas that you felt would impact a community, or was it just an organic process where you would be somewhere and say, here's something that I see a need for and I'm gonna fill it today?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Laura, I think it's more of the second. Then, I had set the intention on this journey, which was an 18 month journey around the country to learn about joy and to document and to share what I discovered. All the ups, as well as the downs. And during this journey, I think that people got a chance to witness and also experience joy in their own way through me being a conduit for it. But my intention wasn't necessarily to bring joy, but really to highlight and to showcase that joy shows up in so many different forms when we are happy as well as times when at least I was really stressful as well. And it's those moments that I shared that were stressful, that people felt like they could connect with it, that they might've been going through that same journey and that connection in itself was also another form of joy.
Track 1:Do you have any specific examples of like favorite days along that journey?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:I think one of the most notable days that, really was such joy that I didn't expect was when I was in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I was getting ready to head to Washington, DC the following week. Now I'm kind of a planner. I like to make sure that things are in place. I don't just randomly show up and here I am and figure it out. there is some spontaneity. But, as I was preparing for Washington, a friend of mine that I was gonna stay with called and said that she wasn't feeling well. And that, probably wasn't a good idea for me to stay with them. And so, I talked to some other friends and they weren't available. And then I also had some meetings that got canceled and I really started getting frustrated and I felt., stressed out and anything but joy. so I thought, what am I gonna do now? I'm supposed to get to DC so that I can get to New York the following week. And I had a plan all of a sudden I got a call from a friend of mine in Miami, and, she said, Hey, why don't you come down and visit us down here and. If you've ever looked at the map, Charlotte to Miami is in the complete opposite direction. So I thought, well, you know what? I always have a great time with my friend, her name's Annette, and so sure, why not? So I took a 14 hour detour in the opposite direction. And if you've ever driven through Florida, boy, it's a long ways down to that panhandle.
Track 1:No kidding.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:So by the time I got down there, it was already late. We were having a dinner in the evening and my friend Annette and her partner Eddie, said, what do you wanna do here in Miami? And I said, to be quite honest, I didn't even plan on going to Florida on this road trip, but while I'm here, I heard there's great Cuban food and culture and I'd love to listen to some music. And so they were like. Great. Let's plan that in the next couple days. And the following day, I was at my friend's office and she has a travel business where she helps plan itineraries for vacationers who go to Italy, Spain, France, Cuba. And I was helping her with some strategy and I asked her if she did any videos for her business to help her clients learn about. their journeys she said No. And I said, well, it's pretty simple. You just follow someone around, ask some questions, record it, and edit it. And then next thing I knew, her partner, Eddie was sitting next to us. He said, you wanna go to Cuba this weekend? And I said, what? yeah, maybe we should go to Cuba. So she hops on her computer. Within 15 minutes books us flights, and all the accommodations. And three days later we're in Havana. We're having an incredible time in Cuba. And, it was just one of those unexpected experiences. lesson I learned was that during a moment of. I call unjoy frustration, stress, releasing the attachment to how things have to be open, the doors to this, an unbelievable experience that is, so memorable. And whenever I share this story or experience with someone,, it inspires them to have some flexibility and to allow joy to come in any form that it's waiting to come in.
Track 1:So good, man. That is so good. And honestly, I think sometimes spontaneity is the most interesting way that things like joy can show up in our lives.'cause can't predict good or bad, so you're open to more of the experience.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Right,
Track 1:That's amazing. It's a beautiful story. I love that. I wanna go with you on a travel adventure. We should do that sometime.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Let's do it. Let's go on a joy ride.
Track 1:Love it. so we both know that most of the most joyful people in the world that we know of, the Dalai Lama, Desmond Tutu. Mother Theresa. they show up as joy on the planet, but they've been through struggle and strife. Challenge is just part of life and so much of it is how we encounter it and also how we get through it. And so being able to get through to joy. So can you tell me of a time in your life when Joy seemed distant and maybe what did that journey back to Joy look like for you?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Hmm. There have been lots of times when Joy was very distant, but the most recent one I can share with you is towards the end of this past year, I was tasked with selling my parents' home. Now, my parents had lived in this home for more than 37 years, and over the course of three decades, I don't think they once had a garage sale. So My responsibility was to clean out this house as well as put it on the market and get it sold. and the challenge was that all of this responsibility was just on my shoulders.'cause my siblings were out of the country. My other one had responsibilities with her family. So being the only, only one available, uh, I spent a good 60 days going through both the physical and the emotional journey of sorting through things, a lot of things that weren't even mine and trying to organize, get rid of or keep certain things. And in that process I went through a lot of ups and downs emotionally. There was moments of exhaustion there are moments of resentment, there are moments of frustration trying to coordinate all the parties for the estate sale. And if you've, if any of you've had, elderly parents have gone through this process, you know that it's. It is one of the most stressful times is moving. so during that period of time I also turned 50 and it's like all of these things were coming to head and uprooting my myself'cause I was getting ready to move to Austin and. Finally getting the house sold and completing this process, I found myself completely depleted. I had not been in touch with, any of my friends and really lost a sense of my purpose as well, too. A lot of the projects that I've been working on I had to set aside, and so it took really another month or so of just completely. Coming back to myself and I was in this constant state of, I keep getting confused, sympathetic, or parasympathetic. It's the one where we just can't, you know, stop. We're active. Is that
Track 1:Fight or flight. Sympathetic. Yep.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:fight, fight or flight mode the whole time. And what helped me shift was once I arrived and got settled in Austin, which is where I live now, I got a chance to go for walks out nature. There were these beautiful paths that I didn't even know exist. So it was this combination of adventure, discovery, nature, spending time with myself that really helped me get back into a place where I wasn't trying to do things or fix things. And along the way, I got a chance to connect with several friends and learn a little bit more about myself through, some new frameworks, this Human Design thing, that helped me not only embrace who I am and also my gifts, but also understand why do I show up in a certain way and. Having done that since the beginning of the year, I feel like I'm on fire again. I feel like I've reconnected to connected my hose to the joy fire hydrant and it's flowing again. And I know that there'll be times when it won't flow, and that's okay, but. That's been my journey recently, back to this place of joy, and I'm just super excited about this year, about your podcast, about projects that I'm working on and really, exploring this beautiful new city that I've just moved to.
Track 1:That's awesome. And one of my favorite parts of that story particularly was your decision because you weren't able to have a 50th birthday party, is to have 50 birthday parties in the next year. How's that going?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:It's so much fun. Thank you so much, Laura. I think when we reach a milestone birthday, there's this pressure to feel like we've gotta do something at this time and there's a fear of fomo, fear of missing out as well. And for me, 50th is a big milestone and on my 50th birthday, I was actually doing an estate sale and so I was kind of feeling like I was missing out, but I knew that. I have so many people in my life that get a chance to share joy, and I, I just so appreciate, I'm grateful that we get to be friends and I thought, well, I. They're all over the country. Why not spend the next year celebrating at least 50 plus birthdays together? And I think one of the most joyful celebrations recently was when my brother and his family were visiting over the holidays from Kenya. he asked, Hey, do you wanna, let's go out and celebrate your birthday. And I thought, that's great. And so we went out to a beautiful dinner. But little did I know that my nieces and nephew, all five of them were scheming. While we were out to dinner, all the adults, they blew up balloons, hung streamers, got a cake, wrote a card. And when I got back I was literally almost in tears because I had never had a surprise birthday party. And to be able to receive a birthday with. A five zero balloon and all that. It was really special. So I am looking forward to more surprises, more celebrations with my friends throughout this year, and to just really embrace this next chapter.
Track 1:That is so beautiful. I'm so glad that they were able to surprise you like that too, because you know whether you love a good surprise or not. It's always just that feeling like I'm truly cared for. These people thought enough about me to spend this extra time and energy, so hooray for them.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Thank you. And you know, Laura, there's another aspect of this that I, I wanted to share is that it was, it felt awkward too. Like it was having to practice, receive.'cause so many of us are such givers and to fully. wow, this is for me and I'm worthy of this. I deserve it. And those are some things that I noticed that there were little moments of like, this doesn't feel very comfortable, but I was really grateful for it.
Track 1:That's such a good segue to my next question, Yasmin. Thank you. And that question is, what do you think is the most important life lesson or one of the lessons about finding or cultivating joy that you have learned in your life?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Wow. That's a really great question. I think that one of the lessons that I learned is that it's not always about trying to find things and do things that bring us joy. what actually allows joy to flow is noticing and healing blocks our joy. You see, I spent two years traveling around the country, found all these different ways to what I call activate joy. thought I was ready to write this book after my journey, the reality was, There were so much that I still had yet to experience within that was getting in the way of that joy. We went through a period of the pandemic, which certainly accelerated and also amplified lot of the stress that many of us have been experiencing, whether it be relationship or career or whatever it is. And so I realized that there are elements. Mindsets, beliefs that get in the way of joy comparison. So hard not to compare, especially with social media these days. So-and-so's doing so much better. They're making so much more money. They're living this lifestyle. They've got wife and kids, whatever it is. comparing that, uh, I think there's a quote that says, comparison is a thief of joy. You know, this feeling of worthiness and needing to prove ourselves, that shows up as perfection. Apologies. All these things that devalue our own self-worth and our own self-esteem gets in the way of joy. our health, our physical health, not taking care of our bodies. There are moments when I remember I was working so hard and neglecting my own physical health and, then when I got sick. it was hard to find joy. It's hard to experience joy when that blocks. So essence, being just as aware of the things that get in the way of our joy, especially the internal journey, as well as all the wonderful opportunities to really activate and create and experience joy externally.
Track 1:Absolutely, man, you hit the nail on the head. So when I look at some of the things in your book, which I encourage anyone who hasn't read the Game of Joy to pick it up, uh, I bought a case of them to give to my friends and patients because I just feel like you've shared so many incredible nuggets in a bite-sized format. Yasmin didn't play pay me to plug his book, but I just think it's such a great piece of enjoyment. In fact, I've even had some of my patients who are having a bummer day. I've given them the book and I've given them assignments to go and read about joy activators, and their homework is to do one. I appreciate you and the work that you've put in.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Thank you so much, Laura. That means so much to me. That brings me so much joy that you are passing on the joy and you truly are a joy ambassador. So I'm just so grateful that we get a chance to share this joy together.
Track 1:Yes, I agree. what advice would you give to someone who is struggling? To find joy in your life. Now, you've mentioned, identifying the joy blockers or the joy activators, but sometimes somebody might say, well, that's fine for everybody else, but I don't know if it's right for me. what's something that's a small nugget that you can share with somebody who may be struggling to find joy?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Hmm. I think sometimes when we're in this place where joy seems so far away that it's not even attainable. I think there are a couple things that we can do. First of all, we can just start to notice the word joy. Even as you walk around, if you see a word joy here and there, it's kind of like a little tickler to remind you, oh, okay, there's joy. Even if it's just the word joy and you're not feeling it. That level of awareness opens the doors to possibilities for joy to actually flow. Listening to music songs, it's amazing how music can really trigger memories, experiences that. Bring us some joy as well. If you love animals, go pet a dog or a cat. it gets us out of our own way of joy. It allows us to just be fully present with perhaps an experience where there's unconditional which many animals do. going somewhere that's like nature. that always helps create joy. Just going for a little walk. It could be a five minute walk. It doesn't have to be this big thing, but just reminding that there are many possibilities and finding what really triggers it for you. I hate to use the word trigger, but activates that joy. and maybe it's a matter of. Connecting with a friend and opening up and sharing someone that you feel that you can be yourself, be vulnerable. That releases a lot of energy and allows joy to show up.
Track 1:Such good points, my friend. Oh man. So what's next for you on your journey for Joy?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Oh, thank you for asking for me. Since I published my book, I started to really reflect on who really could use more joy these days. And wow, the list is pretty long, but what really hits home for me is right now, I'm in a role where I'm helping take care of my parents. And my parents have been retired for about 15 plus years now, and you would think that once you retire you can travel the world and go play golf and have all this joy, but unfortunately, the reality of retirement, shows up in the form of spending a lot of time alone, spending a lot of time perhaps in front of, uh, television or screen being disconnected, feeling a lack of purpose. I realized that. That's an area that I really want to serve folks who are preparing as well as folks who are on this retirement journey. And over the last year, I've done extensive research, have an amazing mentor and partner that I've been working with, and created the next chapter, which is The Joyful Retirement Project. And on this journey, we're working on a book as well as creating. Opportunities for people to connect and to have conversations about life, about what that journey can look like, because the majority of the people prepare financially for retirement. so many are unprepared for all of the life transitions from. Loss of family members, loss of friends, to loss of purpose, to moving to,, all these different dynamics that were completely unprepared. And, using the framework, the ideas that I've discovered on my joy journey in my book. I'm excited to be able to share and to inspire and to bring people together to create a joyful retirement journey.
Track 1:Now, are you getting your own podcast started here?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Oh, tomorrow, officially tomorrow will be our first episodes that we'll launch. it's called Real Retirement, and it'll be an opportunity for us to have real conversations with real people, real stories, real heartbreaks. real joy, real solutions along the way. And we'll invite special guests who have some insights as well as that are living a very joyful retirement journey to help inspire possibilities. And we're excited to have you too.
Track 1:Yeah. Yay. I am excited too, but I just, I can't wait to see what you guys are gonna bring'cause I know it's gonna be beautiful. And meaningful, which I think is what we're all just meaning making machines. So the more meaning we can make together is helpful. So I wanna finish up our podcast with the Fast five, which is just five quick questions. I'll give you a little preview of what I'm asking, but just the best things off the top of your head. So first off, gimme a song or a band that brings you joy.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Hmm. You know, something, Michael Jackson always brings me joy. I think there was,, over the last year I teach fitness classes and one of my favorites is doing eighties music. Something about eighties music, at least for our generation that really lights us up. And a Michael Jackson song, beat It, or Billie Jean or something like that brings me joy.
Track 1:Very fun. Uh, favorite book fiction or nonfiction that you've picked up multiple times that brings you joy.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Brene Brown's, the Gifts of Imperfection. there's something about that that's really special. I picked it up several times, especially both joyful and un joyful times that really resonates.
Track 1:That's awesome. How about a movie that brings you joy?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Uh, my cousin Vinnie, there's something about Joe Pesci. Marissa Tomei. It is just so funny and I love watching that movie for some reason.
Track 1:I think it's the ridiculousness of the movie that makes it so good.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Yeah.
Track 1:Now, we've talked a little bit early on about joy hacks, things that you do that in big and small ways can hack into joy. So you've given us, you know, animals, walks in the park. Is there a single go-to that you have or is it kind of variables for joy Hack?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:I like to, have a variety but I think what is always consistent is a hack that I call pausing for joy. Sometimes
Track 1:Hmm.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:gets so hectic and, uh, I know this is supposed to be fast, but I like to tell story if that's okay.
Track 1:that's wonderful. Thank you.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:When I was in, Vancouver, Canada, I had a friend who I had just met and she had these two lines on her wrists and I said. Sheila, that's her name. I said, Sheila, what, what are those two lines? And I said, is it an 11? She's like, no. I was like, is it an equal sign? She's like, no. I said, what is it, Sheila? And she said, it's my pause button. And I said, what? It's like, it's my pause button. When life gets stressful, I hit a pause button so I can take a moment for myself. And that was so brilliant. And, I really, as I started to think about it, in order for us to have joy sometimes in life, we just need to have a moment of. Pause. And that pause creates that space for us to really experience joy. And so I would say that whether I am listening to music on a hike in nature, playing with some animals, there is a pause that happens before that that allows for that to happen. so that would be a hack is pause for joy.
Track 1:I am using that definitely. And finally, we're gonna finish with an add away.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Okay.
Track 1:And an add away is a celebration of someone that you're cheering for or who's helped you along the way. And I learned this from Coach Crace years ago when I was on the sidelines for football and win or lose after every game. The athletes would cheer for each other and they would always finish with cheering for the fans, their parents. And it was always an add away, like. A pat on the back. Thank you for your contribution. Thank you for your service. Is there anyone in your life that you wanna celebrate and give an out away to today?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Oh man. If I could give out add aways, there's so many people, but the first person that came to mind is a mutual friend of ours, Cathey Armillas.
Track 1:Yay.
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:she shows up with such presence with such joy,. Positivity and, I am always so inspired by her. So grateful for not only her friendship, but her wisdom and her presence, and how she is so generous in the world. And so this attaway goes to Cathey Armillas.
Track 1:That is fantastic, Yasmin. Is there anything else that you would love to share with these wonderful people where they might find you on social media or anything that's on your heart?
yasmin--he-him-_1_01-22-2024_161803:Well, what's on my heart is such gratitude for you, for this show that you're producing all of your body of work, the clients you serve, the way that you model joy. I'm just so grateful to know you and to be able to share these moments with you and to be on your show as well. And for those who are curious and interested in learning more, invite people to check out my website, joyful living project.com. There you'll be able to find links to my book and also be adding information about my upcoming, project Joyful Retirement Project, which, we have The Real Retirement Show. That's the real retirement show.com where we'll be having conversations about joy and retirement.
Track 1:That's awesome. I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you. I think you're amazing and I appreciate you so much. And my friends. If you wanna learn more about the Dr. Joy show, you can also find Dr. Joy Show on Instagram. Follow the Dr. Joy Show podcast or subscribe on your favorite platforms and see what's more to come. We have a lot to bring the world, and I'm so grateful to have partners like Yasmin and other joy ambassadors that we're gonna help to shine a light on in the world.