What is DTT? DTT (Discrete Trial Training): Structured learning with repetitive trials, clear prompts, and lots of data tracking. Think table time, 1:1, repetitive practice, materials, clipboard, data. 📋
What is NET? NET (Natural Environment Teaching): Skill-building within everyday routines, focused on child-led interests and real-world practice. Think free time, on the floor or wherever you are, embedding your goals in whatever you’re doing. 🧸
👌DTT Pros:
🤷♀️DTT Cons:
DTT, generally really good for early skill acquisition, good for students who have a slower learning trajectory, and for students who need low distractions and repetitions to gain traction.
👌NET Pros:
🤷♀️NET Cons:
NET, good to generalize learned skills, good for students who are more apt to learn from their environment, who have some play-based skills you can capitalize on.
It’s all about BALANCE!
💎Today’s GEM: Your challenge this week. Take one skill and one student this week and take some time with that goal in a DT setting and in an NET setting and see how they work together for you!
⏰ We have something to save you TIME this week! ⏰
Links:
The visuals shared in the podcast which include a simple NET data sheet to try out!
😍 More, you say? We’re here for you!
🖱️ Rate, Review, Like & Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode!
What is DTT? DTT (Discrete Trial Training): Structured learning with repetitive trials, clear prompts, and lots of data tracking. Think table time, 1:1, repetitive practice, materials, clipboard, data. 📋
What is NET? NET (Natural Environment Teaching): Skill-building within everyday routines, focused on child-led interests and real-world practice. Think free time, on the floor or wherever you are, embedding your goals in whatever you’re doing. 🧸
👌DTT Pros:
🤷♀️DTT Cons:
DTT, generally really good for early skill acquisition, good for students who have a slower learning trajectory, and for students who need low distractions and repetitions to gain traction.
👌NET Pros:
🤷♀️NET Cons:
NET, good to generalize learned skills, good for students who are more apt to learn from their environment, who have some play-based skills you can capitalize on.
It’s all about BALANCE!
💎Today’s GEM: Your challenge this week. Take one skill and one student this week and take some time with that goal in a DT setting and in an NET setting and see how they work together for you!
⏰ We have something to save you TIME this week! ⏰
Links:
The visuals shared in the podcast which include a simple NET data sheet to try out!
😍 More, you say? We’re here for you!
🖱️ Rate, Review, Like & Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode!
Caitlin Beltran: I love, let the child lead because I think if we're thinking of NET is like, oh, we're teaching during play. And then, you know, we whip out the train set and we're like, okay, come on, like, what color is the train? The child has no interest in trains. It's like, no, no, no, that's not going to work.
Welcome to the Misfit Behaviorist Podcast. Join your hosts, Audra Jensen and Caitlin Beltran, here to bring you evidence based strategies with a student centered focus. Listen weekly for practical and functional advice, along with actionable tips tailored for ABA professionals, special education teachers, and anyone dedicated to supporting students with diverse needs.
Ready? Let's get started.
Audra Jensen: Hey misfit behaviorists, get ready. Today we are diving into the topic of skill building. We want to talk about teaching in a highly structured trial or should we go with the flow in the child's natural environment. So we are going to be talking about discrete trial training or DTT and natural environment teaching or NET today.
Caitlin Beltran: That's right, and I think this is such a great topic because we are often collaborating with teachers who are teaching students of all different abilities of all different in all different settings. So, it's just great to have, like, a bunch of different options in your tool kit to be able to speak to when you're consulting with staff.
Audra Jensen: Right. And so with discrete trial, we're talking about those really clear targets. We're talking about a structured environment, lots of data, talking about, you know, whether you love it or hate it, a very, structured setting, the more entry level skills, usually. NET we're talking about a natural environment setting, going with the flow, following the kiddo's lead, great for real life skills. Is one better than the other?
So we're going to talk about that a little bit, pros and cons, both in special ed and in general education settings, and talking about kind of the pros and cons, for ourselves and data taking and how we can use it in our approaches in classrooms. So, Caitlin, what kind of experiences have you had with DT and NET in your experience in schools?
Caitlin Beltran: Yeah, so most of the time and I don't know, maybe this is everyone or maybe it's just me. I'm not sure. I feel like most of the time I gravitate towards starting with the discrete trial approach and with, I guess, because most of the students and staff that I'm beginning with are the younger guys. So to me, it just makes sense if you have a very early learner.
And they need that kind of pull out intensive instruction. I mean, we don't have self contained at our very earliest level, but even kindergarten 1st grade, like, we're starting with that fairly, you know, intensive, discrete trial. And then as they're getting older, if able to, we are able to kind of weave into that naturalistic teaching.
I know you're going to get into this. I do find that is a little bit harder to train staff to implement correctly. And so I feel like I'm totally guilty of maybe clinging to the discrete trial format for a little bit longer before venturing out into the NET arena. And I also feel like my personality leans more toward the discrete trial because I like structured and not so much repetitive but I don't know if I would describe myself as go with the flow maybe outside of work, but It's just very like, you know what to expect, you know how to do it. And so it's it's a little bit easier, a lot easier, to train I think.
Audra Jensen: Yeah, I had a neat experience a few years ago when I was doing, special ed preschool right before COVID hit.
I had one student, it's just kind of a good case study of how these kind of work together. And she was, she was level 3 autism, nonverbal, high level of behaviors. And we have an inclusive preschool program. And so she was in an inclusive program. I had worked with her before they, she was in a self contained preschool program before they opened up an inclusion program.
So I had worked with her a little bit before then. And then she was in the inclusion program. And then COVID hit when I took over the preschool program. And, she, In the inclusion program spent pretty much the whole day walking around the room and not engaging in anything except for getting into everybody's stuff and she didn't follow any directions and that was pretty much her day and lots of screaming and lots of significant maladaptive behaviors and it was very challenging for the staff.
When COVID hit, it kind of worked out kind of well for her because when we first started to be able to bring them back, I had the most impacted kids who couldn't wear masks at all. I had them come in just for a half an hour a day just with me. And and then they weren't with any other students. It was just me and them.
And so I had a half an hour a day. It was just me and her. And all we did was I was able to structure things and do a DT type setting, which I would normally do in like an ABA type of setting with her. And that half an hour was all I needed to kind of get that instructional control back to start making progress on goals.
I was able to manipulate the environment and to gain all the control as well as have her engaged with me. And we had such a good time because, you know, it was all about what she was interested in, and I was able to manipulate the environment and, navigate those goals that she was working on. And we saw huge progress in just the few months that we were able to do this.
I mean, they had the teachers coming in to like, did you know that she could do this? And they would like come in and watch and I'd have her sitting there. They didn't know that she could sit for any more than like 10 seconds. I'm like, no, she was sitting there for the entire half an hour working. This was how she learned.
And then when we got back and she was able to go back into the classroom, she was able to then navigate some of those skills that she had been working on with me into the classroom setting, and she was more appropriately engaged in some of the skills that were going on in the classroom. And so it can kind of then implement some of those NET setting type of goals that we were working on in a structured setting then in the natural environment.
It worked really well together, and so they kind of bridged together, which is what we're going to talk about.
Caitlin Beltran: That's so interesting that that worked out that way, and I feel like it, it does speak to, we do have some of those kiddos coming in where you always want to put, you know, do inclusion if you can, you always want to do things naturalistically if you can, but sometimes you really just need that, whether it's one to one, but that repetitive practice first to teach those gateway skills, right?
Audra Jensen: Gateway skill. I love that term. That's perfect. Exactly. You
Caitlin Beltran: Did I make that up or no?
Audra Jensen: I don't know, but I love it. Let's use it. Gateway.
Caitlin Beltran: If anyone asks, I made it up.
Audra Jensen: There's another term. It's pivotal. Pivotal. That's another one. But yes, I know what you mean. There's another one gateway drug. That's not what we're talking about.
So let me share my screen here.
All right, so I thought maybe we'd talk a little bit about the pros and cons of discrete trials and pros and cons of NET because they definitely have a place in everything that we're doing in special ed and clinical settings as well. So some of the pros that I thought about and you can Jump in anytime you think, but one of the things that I think is having that structured and clear presentation, that ability to have that clear beginning, middle and end when we talk about discrete trial and discrete trial is a clear beginning and end in the trial of one thing and then another thing that looks the same and having that clear presentation makes it really easy for us to track a goal and the progress of a goal and take data on that goal.
And so I like that piece of, discrete trial for sure.
Caitlin Beltran: It gives the, I think both for the learner and the staff, right? Like, it gives the staff the to do list of like, this, then this, then that and then the learner. You can often see falls into that rhythm, which can be bad over time. You get that rote response or prompt, but it's even in the beginning.
At least they're learning that back and forth interaction even.
Audra Jensen: Yes, that's excellent. And then along with that, having that easier data collection because as it's so clear, it's very structured, it's very easy, it's easier to take that data because it's clean as you go along with it.
Caitlin Beltran: Exactly.
Audra Jensen: Oh, really good for Initial skill acquisition, like you said, when you're introducing a brand new target, or especially if you have a young learner, somebody who's just being, I don't mean necessarily young in age, but just an early learner, somebody who's gaining a new skill, so much easier
I found to introduce it. For one thing, you can introduce it repetitively. So you give them lots of opportunity to practice something in the same way in a discrete trial, And then we can talk about how we can generalize it, but I find that you get some such a quicker acquisition of that skill in that discrete trial kind of structured setting
Caitlin Beltran: those gateway skills
Audra Jensen: that gateway skill and having that controlled environment.
What I mean by that is being able to control the distractions of the area, your materials, the people coming and going, it's nice to have that distraction free environment when you're running these trials for some of our students who get easily distracted. And so being able to control the materials out on the table, the material, the reinforcers, everything that you can help enable them to focus on what the task is so they can learn quicker and then be able to generalize it.
So it becomes something important for them. And then some of the cons that I thought about is definitely makes it difficult to generalize. If you think about you're teaching a student to the process of washing hands, you know, and you may be able to put out the task cards of what the process is to washing hands, but how does that mean anything when you're sitting at a table learning the process of washing hands?
And so that makes it very difficult to generalize. If you're learning, you know to identify a cat and you have a picture of a cat, you know, it's when they see a cat out in the real life is are they really going to generalize that that's the picture that they've been looking at the learning about at the table? And so makes it difficult to generalize the skill.
Caitlin Beltran: That's a huge one and it's almost like every pro is also a con because when you say controlled environment, just for example, I'm thinking of like teaching counting and I remember when I was first starting out and, you know, still to this day, obviously, like, we prepare the materials and put them in the bins or the drawers or whatever it might be.
And then it's like, okay, do we switch them every day? Do we switch them on Fridays? Like, you just don't want to get that situation where you've only taught this learner to count bears. And then, you know, at the end of it, we're expecting them to be like, now count everything like that's not fair.
Audra Jensen: So that's not even something I put on here. But a big con is just navigating the amount of materials and having the amount of materials you need to make generalization even able to be happen. Just being able to navigate the amount of materials you need to make it meaningful for the learner. It's just sometimes just a pain in the ass to have all that stuff.
Totally. And that's kind of related to that it can make it feel unnatural, you know, if you're sitting at a table, you know, doing cards or even talking about something that's it's unnatural setting, and it can create some problem dependency. And we see this. And so when you're teaching in a discrete trial or any sort of one on one setting, just to always be mindful of those prompts and whatever prompts you're getting to in order to gain, correct answers and stuff, you're always thinking about how am I going to back this off?
How am I going to take away this prompt? Because if you, you know, I've had so many students who are just waiting for the prompt so that they get the right answers so they get the reinforcement. So always be mindful of, how am I taking that off? Give, give a moment of pause even before a prompt just to give so that we're always backing off of that so we don't create that prompt dependency.
Caitlin Beltran: A hundred percent. Yes.
Audra Jensen: So there you have on in discrete trials, when you have that structured setting, you are more dependent on doing those kind of external motivation where you're having to use, you know, things that aren't so natural. So you're doing a lot more of, you know, maybe you're using skittles or something like that.
You're kind of having to manipulate your free and forces in such a way to gain that, that compliance and stuff. And it's just not as natural. And so you kind of have to manipulate that a little bit. And so, and I think that's a definite con. It's not as natural. And then you always have to be mindful of kind of that deprivation and satiation thing so that you're not overusing these reinforcers that are important to them. And then you have to kind of manipulate it. And so there's, you always have to like manage that with the student.
Caitlin Beltran: Yeah, and I was thinking it reminds me of like the learner you were describing at the beginning who or and when I was saying that it creates that kind of back and forth structure that both the teacher and the student, I think, eventually kind of understand and feel comfortable with and like the girl you were describing the beginning, it was probably great to get to that point because she could sit for longer and pause for longer and have an interaction. But then over time, sometimes you do see those students really get attuned to like, okay, do this, do this token token, you know,
Audra Jensen: and it's so perfect. So that student in particular, she was super into Troll dolls and Barbies with them. You know, funny hairs and stuff. And I had to be very careful that I used those in such a way that it was motivating for her that I didn't use them so much that she satiated on them so that she was, she lost that motivation because she'd always had, she'd already had them so much over stuff.
I kind of saved them. And carefully use them in such a way that the harder tasks where she got more time with them and the stuff that was easy for her, she sort of got that behavioral momentum with them. And, and so it is, it's sort of this dance that you have to play so that, you know, of course, we're always playing with dolls together.
You know, we're never, I never, ever give a motivation, you know, reinforces, Hey, here, play with this. It's always me playing with them. But yeah, you kind of have to, that dance, you have to play with motivators.
Caitlin Beltran: overall, I don't know if there's more to this. Is there any more? Did we miss any? this visual is awesome, and if people are listening, is this visual available if they're not seeing it right now to download?
Audra Jensen: Oh yeah, so this and the rest of these that I'm going to go over, I'm going to put in the show notes and give to everybody.
Caitlin Beltran: Perfect.
Audra Jensen: So then the second part is our NET, the natural environment teaching. So kind of the pros that I thought about for NET, I just noticed the big old typo at the very top.
Caitlin Beltran: Oh, wouldn't have caught it.
Audra Jensen: There you go. You wouldn't have seen it?
Caitlin Beltran: No. I mean, I don't think I would have.
Audra Jensen: Natural. Natural.
Caitlin Beltran: That would be fixed.
Audra Jensen: Yeah. Okay. So your natural environment teaching, you do have that better generalization. So, you know, you're able to work on skills in a real situation. So say you're working on animal names, you can be outside working, obviously not at school, but you know, if you're working at home, you have animals, you have dogs and cats and you have birds and you can go talk about them when they're in the real setting.
You're talking about playground equipment. You're not looking at them at a card. You're out at recess. You're talking about the slide and the swing and it's actual real stuff going on. And that really helps with that generalization piece.
Caitlin Beltran: Yeah, you're teaching in the real environment, so what could be better than that, right?
Audra Jensen: Not much. Then you have that natural motivation. So in this way, I think, you know, you have a student. Say you're working on that washing hands piece. You can manipulate things and such you have lots of dirty things. You're playing with Play Doh. You're doing sensory activities and stuff. You have lots of natural opportunities to wash hands because they're going to want to wash their hands when they get dirty.
And so then you have all these opportunities. They're just very natural in the course of your day to wash hands. I have the different opportunities that just flows very naturally that way. For sure. Oh, see more real and functional. And that also gives them social opportunities to interact with others that are maybe working on the same goals or they're, you know, they're out there doing their thing throughout the day and and within your the structure of the classroom. And so those are definitely the pros that I think of. Are there other things that you think of, as far as
Caitlin Beltran: No, I mean, just the same just to highlight that more real and more functional. I think like when we're doing DTT and we think, oh, yeah, we're going to generalize this or I'm going to use a few different exemplars.
Like, it totally has its place and I use it all the time, but nothing could compare to teaching in that real life setting because I'm just thinking of like, Oh, yeah. Sight words, right? Like you're teaching eggs and you're teaching milk. I mean, I can only make them different colors, different fonts, different sizes, written, typed, so many different exemplars.
And yet, are any of them going to come close to what the word eggs looks like in the supermarket or milk on the carton? So like thinking about it from that lens, especially as the kiddos are getting older and they're not learning those introductory skills, but they're learning skills like bathroom signs or whatever it might be. Just starting right from the real world environment is pretty much invaluable, I think.
Audra Jensen: Yep. Yep. Starting from the beginning. Some of the cons, yeah, you have that less controlled environment. You have so many more distractions out in your regular classroom setting, in the real environment, out at Target, it's less controlled.
Taking data is definitely more difficult in a natural setting. You have to get creative in how you do it. In what way works, you just don't have as much control over your materials and who's interacting and how you don't have that discreet as much that beginning, middle and end. That's easier to do.
You may in a natural setting like this. You're going to see slower progress just because you don't have that control. And you're going to have more distractions. You're going to have more interaction with other situations that are going on around you, and so that's, that progress that you may get, you may see in a discrete trial, especially on those initial acquisition skills, it may be slower.
And then you have the inconsistencies, you know, you have your other little friends that are intruding on what you're doing, or it's just, or you're staffing, it's, it's harder to train in a setting like this to take data and to keep things controlled in such a way that the data is going to be consistent throughout, from trial to trial.
So those are kind of the cons that I was thinking about. What other things are you, do you think about?
Caitlin Beltran: Yeah, all of those. And just overall, I think like we've both been saying it's difficult to train someone to do, but i, I don't mean that as like, it's difficult for me to tell someone to do it. Like it's difficult to do it.
Like it's difficult even for me. And I think I would be much better at doing this now than when I first started out, because I just think that speaks to, unless you are a total natural pro at like natural environment teaching, it's hard to remember to kind of switch your mindset. I think like as ABA educators, we get in the habit of like, okay, this is trial time and this is downtime and this is social skills group time, but just taking that zoomed out lens and being like, okay, we're going to kind of play for this 25 minute block in the sandbook, but I'm also going to try to hit these targets.
So I'm going to think ahead to embed those targets. Also take the data, but keep it very natural. It just takes a really skilled, natural instructor to do that.
Audra Jensen: Yep. That's exactly what I was thinking about. So I, I came up with a few ideas for like best practices for both of them. So I was thinking for DTT, thinking about, choosing those meaningful skills to break them down, meaningful skills as in, you know, 25 years ago is when we started, we kind of, everybody started with the same goals.
We don't really do that anymore. We really want to think about this particular learner, you know, what pivotal schools or gateway skills Gateway skills are important for this student to learn the next thing that's important to them. What's important for this family or this cultural setting for this student, you know, and think about those skills and then break them down into such a way that they can learn them.
So make it really, really individualized.and then creating that positive learning environment and a focused learning environment to so getting your environment free from distractions, finding a space if you can, that can just be you and the student, if at all possible, we used to have, you know, dividers, just simple dividers, this way.
You know, just like making a U, we had a couple of different spots. And so it just, and I can't remember what they were, they were just super cheap little flimsy things. And, but it just was enough of a divider to, to provide a level of focus for the students and for the staff as well. And it helps create that, that focused environment so that you can, work on the goals.
Caitlin Beltran: How often did those dividers get knocked down?
Audra Jensen: That's a great question. Like average per week? Hmm, guess it depends on the student. Exactly. Delivering a clear instruction with effective prompting, being mindful that you're not using too much language for wherever the student's language is. So not using a lot of extraneous verbal if that's not where the student is.
So being very clear when you're, as the teacher, when you're writing up instructions for your staff, you're training your staff that you're very clear about what you want them to say or how to deliver their instructions. So it's very clear for them so that the student gets the same information that they're supposed to respond to. And then they're going to know how they're supposed to respond and then staff knows how to respond back.
Caitlin Beltran: That's a good one.
Audra Jensen: And then leveraging that high powered reinforcement, knowing what your student, what your student is interested in, you know, that particular student, because it's not going to be the same for every student.
And to use that, those high powered reinforcement for the skills that are most difficult to learn, and the most skills that, that you want to break down and they're difficult to learn. You want to save the, those highest reinforcers for those times, you know, and to leverage it that way.
Caitlin Beltran: I think that's a big one that sometimes gets overlooked, myself included, just because we're differentiating instruction, we're differentiating, we're doing so many things, but, you know, just because this learner, we've done the preference assessment and they love these three things, differentiating the motivators to match, like, the newest, the hardest skills for them is huge.
Audra Jensen: I mean, even think about us, you know, if, if your highest reinforcer is coffee or whatever, you, you're not going to want coffee all day, every day, you're going to want to use it at a time. I mean, most people like it first thing in the morning because that's when they need it, you know, but if they were drinking, I guess some people do drink it all day, every day, it loses its potency throughout the day. And so you kind of use, you want to use it at the time that it's most useful for them.
Caitlin Beltran: I always think of this when we're like toilet training because we'll often say like, okay, they love marshmallows or skittles. Like, can we try for the first week or two? Like, they only get that when they go on the toilet.
So it's like super like, they're, you know, very deprived of that. And, when I was toilet training, my son, we were using goldfish crackers, you know, like lives by them. And I remember like a week or 2 in I was like, I don't think he needs these anymore. I don't know. It was just like a routine. And sure enough, the next time he went to the bathroom, he came out, he had like one goldfish, and then he gives them back, and he goes, you know what?
Save it for my next potty prize. And I was like, you don't need them anymore. Confirmed.
Audra Jensen: How about you just have some goldfish at your next snack time?
Caitlin Beltran: Exactly. We've officially, yeah, transferred that back into just snacks. Oh yeah. And the other thing is, DT is a great time to really get some clear, clean data collection, where it's harder to do in an NET setting. So if you're doing DT trials and stuff, that's a great time to really collect some objective data on progress of goals. And to be really responsive to the learner and what they are and aren't getting, and how to tweak those goals so that they can master those skills. And obviously DT is most effective when you're pairing it with other strategies and that you're generalizing across skills should always be a part of a well rounded system.
Audra Jensen: It's not the only thing we want to be doing.
Caitlin Beltran: I love that. And I think it kind of ties in with the last, I guess, the overall theme, your last point in that I know when we were, when I was teaching at Douglas, My, our administration made a big push at 1 point that we were, I think, teaching all of us were just teaching very repetitively.
And then we always had a plan for generalization at the end of sort of like a teaching program. And this was forever ago but they eventually said don't think of it as like teach, teach, teach, and then generalize. You need to teach loosely from the start. It doesn't mean teach loosely like teach sloppy.
It just means like literally every single day should be the same skill, the same cue, the same response, like clean, but in a different environment or a different material or the different person. And so it's just generalization from the start or teaching loosely or whatever you want to call it, but you can't do that.
Audra Jensen: We used to call it, I teach outside of the boxes, teach outside the boxes.
Caitlin Beltran: Perfect. Yeah. But again, it's just like that extra layer, like you're saying at the end, it's, it's just going using DTT, but making sure it's part of like a really thorough package.
Audra Jensen: That's right. Excellent. So here's an example of a, just a couple of easy DT data sheets you might use. So I took the two goals, very simple goals of motor imitation, object motor imitation, and naming animals, you know, and maybe you're working on making a horse or a cow walk, you know, doing a motor imitation. So you might just do a very simple, I use a plus or minus just to make it really, really simple.
Minus would just be either prompt or incorrect or no response just to make. I try to keep my data, especially with staff, in school settings as simple as possible. Right. Unless the learner really, if we really need to dive into like prompting levels, we'll do that, but I really just keep it as, as simple as possible.
So we might just do it this way, just tracking trials that way, or for naming animals, you might just have the little cows and the, the horses naming the animals. And so there's just really simple ways you might do a DT goals.
Caitlin Beltran: Yeah, I like both of those.
Audra Jensen: So best practice, practice for any NET. Embracing those everyday routines as learning opportunities.So thinking about what goals you have for this learner and how can you embed those throughout your regularly planned daily routines. And if you think ahead on those annual goals, you'll find that they can all be thrown into your daily routines anyway. So just shove them in there.
Caitlin Beltran: All of them. Yeah. Yep. It's a lot of thinking ahead, but it's so true.
Audra Jensen: Following that child's lead, planning ahead, preparing. You know your students, you know what goals you want to be working on, but thinking about it beforehand. It just takes a little forethought and planning, especially with data collection. thinking about it beforehand is what is going to make those things possible for them.
Caitlin Beltran: I love, let the child lead because I think if we're thinking of NET is like, oh, we're teaching during play. And then, you know, we whip out the train set and we're like, okay, come on, like, what color is the train? The child has no interest in trains. It's like, no, no, no, that's not going to work. So 1st, we plan ahead and finding out what they like, what they want to do. And then we've also been planning ahead how we can embed those targets.
Audra Jensen: Exactly. And again, like I said, just leverage that motivation that they have internally, that, you know, they, they have dirty hands, they want to get them washed. Whatever they have naturally, and finding that data collection technique that works for your staff and for you, may be unique.
I've used everything. My, my personal favorite data collection are the mini clipboards that, they're like half the size or a quarter size of a regular clipboard.
And I get the small size of these little data sheets that I create and they can even be put onto a lanyard and carried around. That's my favorite one.but I've had, I've used like masking tape on, on legs, clickers, anything that's portable, is a good way to do it in an NET type setting.
Caitlin Beltran: I like the clickers too.
Audra Jensen: And then, remember that even with a natural environment training that you're going to be times that you're going to still need to kind of structure it in some way. You're going to be doing modeling and intentional prompting. the key is to keep those moments really child focused and within that natural context within the activity.
You're still going child led, but there's still going to be opportunities to prompt and to kind of facilitate an interaction or whatever it is that you're trying to, the goal is.
Caitlin Beltran: Such a good point, like it's child led and it's natural environment, but it's not like it's one big probe session. Like, we're still doing the teaching just embedded.
And I have to say, this is making me want to do this more and I think quicker. It's like, inspiring me in my real life to just, it can be so cool when it's done right. So, I think branching out of the DTT, you know, safety net is hard sometimes, but it does have really cool benefits.
Audra Jensen: Right, so if you look at those two, the same two goals, motor imitation and naming animals, you might look at a data sheet like this. Really simple. You're going to just think about, so think about the learner beforehand, thinking about maybe they like playing in the animal area at free time, so you have these same skills that you're thinking about, motor imitation and naming animals. Whether it's incidental, which means it's kind of spontaneous for the learner, or you're kind of purposely embedding it on your own.
And then you have your goals here and just throughout that play time that you're going to be on the floor with them playing and you're marking if these opportunities happen, whether you're embedding it kind of. Forcing that opportunity or it's coming naturally from them. You're going to take data on that, that way.
And so it's a very similar, but it's just in a natural type setting and you can have multiple goal goals going at the same time and the same, situation that you have with the student playing on the floor, I find this is a really fun way to do it too. You can also have, several different students, you know, you could have the same goal and different students working on the same thing. So get creative.
Caitlin Beltran: Are these data sheets available?
Audra Jensen: Yeah, I will add this into the show notes.
Caitlin Beltran: Awesome.
Audra Jensen: So here, yeah, it's all about that balance between, you like my little graphic there? I really do. But that balance, like finding that, that structured setting where you're gonna get that skill acquisition, kind of that quicker acquisition of a new skill in particular, and that NET, that natural environment where you're getting more of a generalization, a practice of a very natural skill.
And sometimes you're going to be going back and forth and back and forth. You're going to be practicing a skill, you're going to be learning a skill, and you're going to be practicing a skill. And so it's really important that you have that balance between the two.
Caitlin Beltran: Very true. And you could be using it for different skills for the same learner. Yep. Or, you know, across different ways in the classroom as well.
Audra Jensen: Yep. So those were my thoughts.
Caitlin Beltran: I love them and I love the visuals you created as well. I think they're really cool for any staff new to either one or maybe just giving the perspective of why choosing one over the other.
Audra Jensen: All right. So the one thing we want to end with today, the one thing I want you to work on this week is choose one skill and maybe one student and take some time. Have a goal maybe you're going to work on in a DT setting and the same goal in an NET setting and see how they can kind of balance two goals together.
Work on something in a one on one setting and also working on in an NET setting and see if they can kind of balance together. And so that's my, my goal for you this week.
Caitlin Beltran: I love that and I'm gonna do that myself and I'm gonna challenge anyone else who's doing it to report back to us either on Instagram, @themisfitbehaviorists, or in our Facebook group, same name, Misfit Behaviorists.
Audra Jensen: Anyway, thanks for tuning in and we will see you again next week.
Caitlin Beltran: Thank you.
Thanks for listening to the Misfit Behaviorist. And be sure to tune in next week for more tips and tricks. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.