Ep. 39: Diddy Do it? The P. Diddy Scandal, Power Dynamics, Ethics, and Protecting Vulnerable Individuals

In this episode, Audra and Sami discuss the ethical implications surrounding the recent P. Diddy scandal, power dynamics in influential figures, and how this ties into our work as behavior analysts and educators. We dive deep into the importance of giving assent to students and clients and why protecting vulnerable individuals—whether in schools or society—must be our priority.

Key Takeaways:
🧠 Power dynamics matter: Figures in positions of authority can misuse influence, making it crucial for us to stay vigilant in recognizing these behaviors.
🎯 Assent is key: We discuss the importance of giving students and clients the ability to say "no" to activities or instructions that make them uncomfortable.
🛑 Safety first: When working with vulnerable individuals, safety should always be the first priority—both in schools and in life.
⚖️ Mandated reporting: It’s better to speak up and be wrong than to stay silent and risk someone getting hurt.
🗣 Boundaries protect everyone: Teaching students and clients to set boundaries can protect them in all areas of life.

Resources:
📚 Hanley's research on assent and control in behavior analysis
🎧 Previous episode: Compassionate Care ABA and Trauma-Informed Care and Challenging Behaviors
📑 Guide to ethical obligations in behavior analysis

Join Us Next Time:
Next week, join us as we chat about the differences between an IEP and a 504 plan. Don’t miss it!

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Transcript

Audra: [00:00:00] I would rather err on the side of protecting a vulnerable individual and having it be nothing, then wait too long and having it have been something. 

Intro: Welcome to the Misfit Behaviorist podcast, part two, join your hosts, Audra Jensen and Sami Brown here to bring you fun and functional advice for behavior support professionals and special education teachers. Let's get started. 

Audra: Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Misfit Behaviorist podcast, and we have a really fun, hopefully just a short little entertaining episode for you today.

We're talking about a current event that many of you have heard of. I want to start by asking Sami a little bit of her background on why she found this topic particularly interesting because Sami, you come from kind of a criminal justice background, don't you?

Sami: Yeah, my undergrad actually was in criminal justice and criminology. But I spent about four years working in the criminal justice field. I worked as a deputy probation officer. I worked as a [00:01:00] corrections officer. So, I've always just found that the criminal mind, so to speak, really fascinating. Thinking about like the serial killers of the world and in the past, it's like, hey, I have issues sleeping at night I'm a little anxious, but let me watch like a whole documentary on how this person murdered their parents . 

Audra: What is this current event that's sort of piqued your interest lately? 

Sami: It's Diddy. Obviously it's, It's across the news, it's across social media, many different platforms I don't know if you've been following or hearing bits and pieces about Puff Daddy, Sean Combs, the whole story of it, but I have been just kind of chewing at, as the information comes out, and I'm using that behavior analytical mind trying to take apart the pieces, so to speak. Have you been following it at all? 

Audra: Just a little bit, just because that's not my field of music interest. I haven't so much. You know, more than anything, I think, how does somebody go so wrong? And so the first thing I think of, what kind of trauma did he [00:02:00] have in his background? 

Sami: Yeah, and I think for me, even a step further is obviously, allegedly, he wasn't acting alone. And so I don't know, is there a potentiality that someone else kind of groomed him? And so what we're seeing is kind of this, he was nurtured into this. And it's kind of interesting because, you know, I was making kind of a joke to my husband about it. But like, you got the Ted Bundy's who went to school to be an attorney or were in law school, never ended up becoming a lawyer, but that's kind of like their front. And so is this music mogul, is that the front so that he has access to younger people to the popularity you get to this untouchable state where you're so famous and so known that you're almost above the law, so to speak.

Audra: So that's really interesting because What you just said got me thinking about something that my own sister in law is going through is that she, [00:03:00] she's a member of a church who, one of the people who went to the church was a man who spent a lot of time, very loving, charismatic, and, Giving, helpful, wanted to be helpful with the kids, always babysitting, you see where this is going.

But he was well loved by a lot of people, but some people, like my sister in law, it's like, this is creepy, this is wrong. But enough people didn't stand up and say something. And he had access to people's children because he was that kind of a guy. He put himself in that position So that he could have access and it has come out and he's now going through the legal process of hopefully being put away for a very long time.

These predators ingratiate themselves in these communities where they're going to have access to the type of people that they want. So, in this case, you're talking about he, he was a highly influential and charismatic and successful person who is able to have that control and get what he wanted out of it.

Sami: [00:04:00] And I think that speaking of the control piece is that you know, there's a lot of kids, you know, that are musically inclined and the parents are like trying to push them towards making this into something. Everyone wants to be known and made it big and have this elusive funds and be famous and so they were pushing their kids into these directions of these people because they had so much power. And so people were put into positions of doing things that they didn't want to do because they were so afraid and so what's hard now is the news is reporting that there are videotapes that were recorded and that Diddy allegedly kept these as a form of control over people.

So, like, you can't ever tell anybody any of this. You can't ever do this because if you do, then this is what's going to happen. I'm going to release this. And so there's actually right now, there's 120 cases. There's an attorney in Texas that's got some of these civil cases already kind of piled up with victims. And they're talking a lot about people shopping [00:05:00] to try to get these tapes now. And so there's just so much that leads you into this discussion of what's true and what's not, and what's real and what's not. And a lot of it is kind of coming out in bits and pieces.

And is our minds as just the normal everyday Joe about to be blown completely wide open when we start hearing about people that we've respected doing some of these things? And I think going back to just, you know, talking about BCBAing and our jobs, it's Have we ever been in a position where you've seen an administrator doing something that you know isn't correct but you're afraid to confront that administrator because if you do, it could be your job on the line or your own reputation.

Audra: I think that's exactly kind of the direction we should go is like, how does this apply to the life that we're leading right now? And I think that's a great example is what if an administrator is doing something, how do you speak up? What if you see potential abuse and having to make that call is really scary. Maybe it's a family that you have really good relationship with. And, and [00:06:00] the child comes to school with something that makes you go, that doesn't seem right. And you're a mandatory reporter, but you don't, you're worried about this relationship with the family and what's this going to mean? And what if it is nothing? And then they're really mad and all this stuff. And so where do you draw the line of speaking up, what are our ethical obligations to doing that?

Sami: And I think that when you're thinking about the trauma that could occur by not saying something, if we all find out as a society that potentially Justin Bieber was involved in something, and we look at now the trauma of years that he's been experienced, that's what happens to even the clients, the students, the people that we are interacting with that they, themselves, it's going to be years. So you have an opportunity to say something one time, and maybe you're wrong. Maybe you're wrong and you shed light and it's how you say it too. I mean, you can come from a place of, listen, I never want to make any accusation. My job is to be a mandatory [00:07:00] reporter. If I see something, I say something. And so I really feel ethically, I have an obligation to bring this up today. And this is what my concern is.

Audra: I would rather err on the side of protecting a vulnerable individual and having it be nothing, then wait too long and having it have been something. You know, I'd rather err on that side and risk, you know, maybe a crabby CPS worker or something, then not report it soon enough and have a child be hurt.

Sami: And that hurt is a lifelong potential hurt. And so we talk a lot about our four functions of behavior. And so it, and people are saying, well, it can't control be a function. And it's interesting because there is some scientific research that Hanley's doing about this, My Way, potentially giving some control to individuals. And so what's your thoughts when you think about functions of behavior or why predators potentially, and not just specifically Diddy, but predators act? 

Audra: You're talking about that really makes me think of the switch that we've been [00:08:00] making lately into assent. So when, when my son was little, and we were starting an ABA and stuff, it was not a lot of you get to choose what we're working on. It was, this is what we do. And I think we've made a really good shift in the last 10 years or so of shifting from that because they are vulnerable population right there. And if we're teaching them, you do exactly what you're told all the time, then you're running into risk of situations like this happening where they're just going along and accepting whatever's been told to them.

So I think we've done a much better job in our community of teaching assent. It's like, and giving a vulnerable individual or anybody the option to say no and to honor that. And I think we need to make sure we're doing that from a very young age and from those most vulnerable situations so that if they're ever in situations, maybe not like P. Diddy or something, but they're in a situation where they need to say, No, I don't want to do that. I'm uncomfortable with that. That they can do that and feel like their opinion is respected and they're safe in being able to do that. [00:09:00] 

Sami: And I think that even in school settings with teachers and paraeducators, when we've got a student who's borderline dangerous and is having an episode, so to speak, the number one priority in that instance isn't to get control of the student, it's to have safety. And so we're really doing whatever it is that we need to do in that moment to regain some control because you're not going to be able to talk to the student when they're in this state anyway, they can't even receive the information that you're presenting. And so you really want to get to this place of safety and bringing it back down. And then we'll kind of break up the pieces. 

Audra: Talking about the students I think that is the most powerful strategies we can use with our students and talking about giving them assent for their choices is going to give them the power to say yes or no throughout their lives. 

Sami: Saying no and having boundaries is a really important skill that even adults, neurotypical adults, have a difficult time with. And so I feel like we're kind of paving that way early on with these young learners of being able to, like you said, [00:10:00] say yes or say no to something. 

Audra: So what do you say to the staff member who says, well, I just can't let them do whatever they want because that's the choice they're making. What do you say to them?

Sami: That you're getting into a power struggle before you've even started. And if your whole role is to be playing tug of war, everyone's going to lose.

Audra: Yep. Yep. That's great. Well, let's leave it at that. I think this is a fascinating discussion as more facts come out of the case we might come back and do a refresher. It's not going to be the last case we see of crazy behavior. We have a lot of stuff going on in the world.

We will see you again next week when we discuss whatever we're going to discuss and we'll talk then. 

Intro: Thanks for listening to the Misfit Behaviorists and be sure to tune in next week for more tips and tricks. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.